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Op-Ed: Am I Really a ‘Good Bochur’

They say I am a ‘good bochur.’ I went to good yeshivas and accomplished a lot. My yeshiva years were spent diligently studying in zal from 7:30 in the morning until 9:30 at night. During the three breaks of breakfast, lunch, and supper, I would finish chitas, Rambam and try to cram in a bit of a social life to keep myself sane. After night seder there was Seder Sichos till 10:15; following that I would prepare for bed because I wanted to get up early to go to Mikva before Chassidus.

Boruch Hashem I loved my years in Yeshiva. I learned Torah, I worked on myself, what more can a person ask for? I then went on to Shlichus, where I was even more busy because all the peoulos that we arranged had to be done out of seder. But Boruch Hashem it all worked out; I had a great group, we did great things and gave the Rebbe a lot of nachas.

I am now a ‘770 bochur.’ My nights are now spent by l’chaims or Weddings of former roommates, classmates, or other bochurim that I met in Yeshivas or camps. I sleep in every morning, and whenever I show up to seder my chavrusa usually doesn’t. Then there is the whole finding a seat process, everyday there’s another problem with that. When I finally do sit down with my chavrusa, we discuss the latest gossip, and the upcoming holiday’s Merkos Shlichus arrangement.

In short, I’m not doing any thing productive with my time. Going to college or getting a job, however, is a big no-no before marriage.

Here comes the irony of it all. I am considered a “good bochur”.

Yes it’s true; people call my parents for a shidduch and they say I am a good bochur and want me to go out with Ms. so and so. She is a ‘great girl.’ Why? Because she works in a preschool and is getting a master’s in education.

But what about me is good? They tell my parents “he is a good bochur, I see him in 770.” Mind you I go to bed late, wake up late, and have no sense of responsibility or purpose.

So I sit here wasting away in 770 being a “good bochur.”

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64 Comments

  • Pirkei Avos

    At least there is schar halicha! You also know the issue and it seems to bother you unlike many others so jump back on that train and return to “the good old days” hanhoga

  • Living the Dream....or Dreaming to Live?

    Seriously? Get a job or a hobby. Live by the Chassidus you learn…if you think life is tough now, just wait until you are married with kids and have real responsibilities. I’d love your life and so would many others.

    Boredom is your problem. Get busy, get some Chayus…you learn in the Rebbe’s shul every day (hello!!!)….get a new chevrusa and live your life……..or just write melancholic and depressing “woe to me” attention seeking articles on Chabad websites.

    Learning Torah is not wasting time. I’d give so much to have the time to learn….just wait until you are in the working world or on shlichus where getting to learn is a luxury…….

    If this is the future….we are doomed…….Moshiach now……please…….pretty please!!!

  • Welcome to reality

    I had the same problem… go to college and do something with yourself. The community calls you a “good bochur” because your holding on to chassidishkite (mostly because your appearance) to a certain degree while everyone else is fryin out.
    Lubavitch as a community has its priorities on backwards. Outside Lubavitch your considered a good bochur by who you are in reality not who you are in the abstract.

  • Anonymous

    This in between time is terrible for both good boys and good girls. Why is Hashem making it so hard? Both are getting older and discouraged. I really don’t get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • odd

    I think your an idiot if you know it’s wrong fix it…. A chvtch is worth nothing with out avodah

  • Chaim

    #1. Stop wasting your time in 770 and go do something with your life (you can still be a good bocher).

    I regret wasting those two years from finishing Simicha until I got engaged “learning in 770”, when in realty I was (like you describe), sleeping in and playing PlayStation (killing Nazis), so my parents can say I’m a good bocher “learning in 770”.

    Some advise I got when I was your age…

    #2. When I was a young Bocher I asked my father (may he live in good health until 120), why would someone want to marry me, I’m a Yeshiva bocher who did all the right things (as described above), but what do I have to offer in a marriage?

    My fathers reply:

    Why get married at all? Who needs it? You can live a single life, find an apartment, you can get a job and even with an average salary, your good (no big expensive)? Who needs the headache, the responsibly etc…etc..?

    We get married to start and raise a family period. We find someone, a partner to do that with.
    We don’t get married so we can play house.

  • Pops

    The fact that you are willing to acknowledge your shortcomings is a good start. Sounds like you are a bit burnt out. But don’t be discouraged. Just being in 770 rather than out in the trappings of the world is a positive thing. You have your whole life ahead of you to be productive and find a career.You are a good bochur!.

  • Change the System!

    This is the issue I find with 770 bochurim. They accomplish an amazing lot of things when they are younger and then are thrown into this lifestyle of doing…well…nothing. These young men should not be discouraged from college courses or jobs after doing all their initial learning and shlichus work, or at least should go on another shlichus. Girls are pressured to always be doing something, but the bochurim are not!

    I hope this “good bochur” finds something to do with his time where he feels accomplished before he, b’Ezras Hashem gets married.

  • confused

    Why are you in 770? Is there no where else to learn that would be more productive than what is described?

  • get married

    you have nobody to blame but yourself, if you dont want to go to school or get a job get married stop wasting your life

    def a weird post

    • Halevai

      it would be so easy just to get married. the process is a long and difficult one. and it only happens when the Aibishter deems it the correct time!

    • Independent

      That’s good advice. (sarcasm) So who is paying and taking care of the household expenses? The wife or his parents?

  • well said

    boys in lubavitch need to start learning a skill sitting in 770 after you finished the route is a complete waste of time and does not teach future fathers/husbands self responsibility and self esteem times changed life is getting expensive

  • poischin bmilseh dbdichiseh=by eli

    in all of your yrs didnt you learn 3 key mamorim (chazal that is ;@)

    1) mitoich sheloi lishmoh boh lishmoh

    2) ain odom maisim atzmoi roshosh

    3) zochim liodom sheloi bfonov (ur shadchonim

    (4. kol d,alim gvar dosent pertain as u failed to mention if there was more than prospective party fighting over you=simultaneously)

    p.s. todays good bochur standards are mainly focused on Sur meira…… (vdal vakamal )

    meaning this is doir hamabul (doir mbulbol) flooded with kol minei matamim (haantigeh parsha sedreh) vdogim (no pun intended)

    just like bdoir hamabul=noyach was a tzadik mit aleh zaain zibin grazin , so too ur also a big langeh tzadik bdoiroi shel chutzpoh yassgeh eshgeh maan

    todays shadchonim (& by extension maidlaach) monnt pnimiyus which bh bh isnt lacking on ur end, since ur willing to klaap aal chaite bfaarhesiyeh, just dont go overboard bloshoin shel zhoiris- aal derech the lucky goirol winner, and ceratinly dont cross maavoir yaboik , =maspik bvidui staam

    vaasher lochein = ur a great guy, dont worry, be chappy

    eli.a
    p.p.s. while ur head is down what ARE you thinking about
    i hope its
    traacht gutt vett zaain gutt
    pick up ur head and raise ur eyes heavenward
    (u neva know if ur bashert is peeking down on ur yechi kaapl)

    noff said
    have a happy meaningful & purposeful day
    a brighter future tutoring awaits you somewhere

  • Issue Resolved!

    The Yeshiva system’s order is backward. The year/s after bais midrash should be when you learn smicha. The year of peulos/shlichus, should come AFTER smicha. During that time a bochur should also focus on getting married.

  • Your decision

    Unfortunately, the decision to sit and be unproductive is solely yours and your responsibility.

  • resident

    Dear bochur, I know how you feel . but think of all the good things you are doing!! BEING A GOOD ROLE MODEL FOR NEXT GENERATION , BY GETTING UP ON TIME AND STARTING YOUR DAY RIGHT.
    2- why dont you volunteer infriendship circle, be a leading figure for a boy from a broken home etc.
    3- construct a schedule fro yourself and stick to it. My sons had the same problem, but togehter we worked it out. He had a bedtime before one am. It sound babysish , but this helped him get up on time the next morning. he also volunteered at release time. This gave him immense satisfaction.
    4- You can start studying for your GED.

    5- MOST OF ALL< REALIZE THE POWER YOU HAVE AND ALL THE GOOD YOU CAN DO .EVEN IF YOU ARE A BOCHUR IN 770!! Talk to people you respect and see how they can guide you. my son didnt want to hear of the ''deadly'' word of mashpia. So , I encouraged him to find a mentor. This changed his life. we all need some one to look up to.

  • To the good Bochur

    First of all Zei Nisht Kein Pey Tzadik.

    You were a good Bochur? You learned Nigleh and Chassidus.? You know and appreciate Rebbe? So what is stopping you from utilizing your time now properly?

    Start learning more Halacha Lmaaseh, if you want to learn something “practical.” Learn Hilchois Mikvoh’ois, Hilchois Milah, Eiruvin etc. You know all the hemsheichim? Es felt ois vos tzu lernen? Sit and use your time well. You are not in first grade where a sense of responsilbility and purpose must be imposed upon you. You are aware of it on your own. Just do it.

    Posting this Brabim is meant to accomplish what? Feh! You are right. You are not a good Bochur but rather a Groise Naar.

  • Dear "good Bochur"

    Who told you that setting the foundations of your future life are a big “no no”?? What is that based on? If a bochur is being productive in 770 (which you seem not to be) then it’s great a great place to be during the dating process. But in your situation you seem frustrated and burnt out from yeshiva. Go work for a shliach and give shiurim or something! Or, if you plan to work in the secular world then get an education! If you sit around fitting into the cookie cutter and not feeling good about yourself then how do you expect someone to marry you? You are not desirable in this state of mind. On paper you sound great but when you date your melancholy will shine through. Good Luck. SB

  • ah

    I doubt you really learnt and were involved fully in your years of yeshivah. The fact that you didnt learn to appreciate torah on your own, and run your own show, and you couldn’t maintain your learning after yeshivah. This makes me doubt that you actually learnt during seder, it seems more like you were trying to absorb information to pass tests. Do you still learn chitas rambam? Do you have any goals in your learning? Or are you just “waiting to get hitched?

    I couldn’t help myself but to write this, although this ‘op-ed’ is an obvious flamebait.

  • Duvid

    Go to Israel and join the IDF. They need you and want you and you will have everyones respect.

  • Go to Touro

    I am sorry but I don’t see why you have to wait till you get married to go to an all boys frum college. You should start accumulating credits at this point so that by the time that you do get married IYH you’ll be halfway through to earning a decent parnassah Iyh,

  • Structure

    The problem is simple:
    In yeshiva until now you had a structure, but never learned to create your own. In 770, you need to create your own, here we can differentiate the men from the boys.

    If you feel you cannot create a structure, then you need ti find at least a part time job, in klei kodesh which will get you up in the morning and then give you chayus in learning for the remainder of the day.

  • Bderech Tzachus

    Years ago there was a joke going around.

    A Newark Bochur had a dream that he was sitting in 770 on a Shabbes morning un getracht Chassidus. When he woke up he saw that it was true.

  • A father

    Dear bochur,
    I write this from the bottom of my heart. YOU are amazing, YOU are out future, Please get up and take action before the yetzer horah worms itself into you, gd forbid and brings you down. Things dont seem to be working out her. you seem to need more being busy. you need stimulation. CHANGE , Change your chavrusa to some one more serious, CHANGE your learning location. learn in the kollel or in YAGDIL TORAH. rabbi browd set up an amazing place. attend shidcuhim classes by MRS.KRASNIANSKY, so you can learn what it means to really be a good husband. Get your GED. no matter what , you need to learn how to spell , talk and write the english language. PLEASE TALK TO A FIGURE YOU RESPECT. Sadly, one of my sons is in a horrible place right now. IF ONLY HE WAS HONEST WITH ME AND HIMSELF ,THINGS WOULD BE DIFFERENT. GET UP ,ADD CHAYUS AND WORK THINGS OUT.YOU ARE THE BEST.THERE IS ONLY ONE OF YOU AND YOUR YOUTH COMES ONCE. Learn like you never have before, because once responsibilities set in , its hard. challenge yourself with shiurim, if you dont find one, TAKE ACTION AND ARRANGE SHIURIM THAT YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS WILL ENJOY. many people would love to speak . hatzlacha

    • 770 Bochur

      What’s this Shidduchim classes you speak of? all I’ve heard of was Shidduchim gatherings/meetings/lectures for girls? Are you telling me there’s actually something being offered for us?
      A Bochur who is interested

  • Citizen Berel

    Hello, Mr. Bochur:

    You are good boy. A sweet boy. And a fine human being.

    So you need a better chavrusa and a better place for you to learn and to go to bed a little bit earlier a little bit more often.

    Or perhaps you haven’t really stated what it is you need, which is OK cause we all just need Moshiach already.

  • good bocher

    You are a good bocher
    Its a good sign that you realize that you could do better
    If you are going to go for shlichus, you can use your time to build your skills (prepare good speechs for all the parshios, and occasions) laining all the parshios, etc,become a professional rabbi (funeral,etc)
    If you are going to go to the business world,start doing business part time until you find a niche
    you are a good bocher, you can become a very good or excellent bocher

  • with the old breed

    how good is good? do you have a mishpia? do you learn with someone who needs help? I will tell you there is nothing you said that will help you when the chips are down. you need to do something positive to be something then that guy who goes to all the other guys simchas. the whole world is behind you but you have to do it.

  • duh

    In actuality he really is a good bochur, the problem is that there is absolutely no motivation for him right now to learn, and unless you are an exceptionally focused person, you will find reasons why not to learn. Dont blame the bochurim, It is NOT their fault, it is 180% the fault of the people running the system who refuse to adapt to the world as it is today. They are letting good boys fall by the wayside day after day because of their stubbornness.
    As for you, if you feel you are not producing where you are, do ANYTHING that you feel is more productive. Do not fall to community pressure and gossip. Because let me tell you, those same people that are telling you that its a no-no to go to college or get a job, will be the same people calling you asking you for tzedaka for thei mosed when you DO have a job and a good parnassah bli ayin hara. And if you dont, YOU may chas v’shalom be the one doing the calling. Which makes the whole system even more of a joke.

  • blue

    No one expects a lot more from you at this stage of your life.

    Yes, you should try to be as productive as possible. Yes, you should continue to refrain from engaging in behaviors which would be detrimental to your chasidishkeit (college).

    In light of your background you’re pretty much exactly where you need to be, and based on the history you described from your yeshiva and shlichus, you sound like a very good bochur.

    There are people that struggle to be just where you are.

    Am I missing something?

  • to the Good Bochur

    “So I sit here wasting away in 770 being a “good bochur.”

    A. Go to Mashpia and discuss this with him. What is accomplished posting it here?

    B. If in fact you were/are a good Bochur you can go to any of the Yeshivas as an Eltere Bochur, be in a functioning yeshiva environment, learn with other and learn yourself.

  • SEREL CHANA MANESS

    ALL THESE PEOPLE HAVE GREAT ADVISE,BUT TO GET BACK ON TRACK,PERHAPS YOU COULD USE REB MENDEL MOROSOW FOR HELP,WISHING YOU ALL THE BEST

  • FRIEND OF CROWN HEIGHTS

    to #18
    what a sick advice… SHAME ON YOU, YOU CAN ADVICE TO A YOUNG BOCHUR DRINK, GUESS YOU ARE SICK TOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DRINK AND GET SHIKOR. IT IS NOT OUR REBBE’S ADVICE EVEN TO FARBREN SO STOP TO TEACH OUR KIDS TO DRINK AND THEN WE HEAR AS PARENTS, DRUGS AND REAL SAMIM IS IN OUR STREETS AND SHULS JUST FOR THE SAKE TO GET HIGH.
    SO GET REAL AND YOU FOLLOW AS WELL THE ADVICE, GET TO REAL LIFE, IF YESHIVA/770 IS NOT FOR YOU SO GET A JOB OR GO TO COLLEGE !!!! NOT TOO HARD JUST DO IT????

  • yosef

    If you will realize why u are here in this world? Why are u in 770? Why u are a chossid? If not for the Rebbe!

    Start to care that u in 770, learn the rebbe’s torah, I don’t think u even started, do the rebbe’s takonos and then let’s see if u are so bored…

    Now u aren’t a good bocher – a bocher which can make to himself a V every day – I did all what I had to do, isn’t what the Rebbe wants. The Rebbe wants much much more..

    If u will, have a mashpia so will start to understand maybe

  • Please heed this advice

    Every Yungerman will tell you that if they were able to go back in time to when they were a Bochur, they would:

    1. Get a job (any job, even a low-wage job) and save up every dollar they earn.

    2. Learn a trade or get a degree.

    I can promise you this: when you get married and have children IY”H, your life will be entirely different. You will no longer have extra time in your day, and you won’t have the freedom to go where you want – when you want.

    Your time now is worth more than gold. Take maximum advantage of it and use it to secure your future.

  • Don't wait around for your life to start

    Don’t wait around for your life to start. It already is and just get’s busier with marriage. Even though you are a so called “good bochur” you don’t know when you will get married and waiting around for that to happen is a real waste of time!
    Find something you like and get busy!!!

  • cht

    times are different. We need to learn the art of “leben mit dem tzeit” so that we are living for the needs of the times we are in, but yet do it in an erliche Toiradike manner. You just described that struggle/ challenge.

  • Dear Bochur,

    Thank you for your honesty. What you describe is sadly the situation for probably at least half of the bochurim learning in 770. Here you are, a tmimisdike bochur in an atmosphere that lyder is not conducive to being productive. The sad news is that this is not news at all and that NOBODY in the hanahala seems to care enough to do something about it!!! So, your REAL challenge is to go against the status quo and BE PRODUCTIVE! You know what you have to do. JUST DO IT!!!!

  • been there done that

    Dear Mr. Honest,
    Firstly, get a job at JEM, KEhos, JLI, etc. Offer to give shiurim for shluchim in Manhattan, LI, and Park Slope etc. This way you keep your “name” and become productive and when you date, instead of feeling like a loser, you will feel like a winner and have something to talk about aside from your new found navel gazing.
    Many have been in the same place you were and once they got married, or at least five or ten years later, returned to that “good bochur” you were in yeshivah.
    The girl will marry you based on your past experience in yeshivah, even if your current performance is lackluster. It is very common to burn out, but if you were once a good bochur, you will most liklely bounce back once you mature in a few years.

  • ..............................................................................................................................................

    This “Good Bachur” is an “Excellent Bachur” !!!
    Why? Everyone is going to shower insults and……..
    at me.
    But, The Rebbe said not to go to college because the
    atmosphere is contrary to being a Chassidishe Bocher.
    After you are married and settled,it’s quite a different
    story.
    Just because everyone started going to college,it doesn’t mean that it became the right thing to do.
    The Rebbe is quite aware of the fact that every Bochur is going to one day,soon IYH, have to make a living.
    My point right now is not to explain and convince anyone why not to go to college.
    But obviously, and surprisingly enough,this Excellent Bochur understands and feels that right now,untli he gets married,soon IYH, college is not the place to be,to prepare yourself to build a Binyan
    Adei Ad.
    So amazing Yeshivah Bochur,
    go back to 1) waking up early
    2) go to Chassidus
    3) Daven
    4) learn
    and if you can’t learn a whole day like you used to
    go work a little in Klei Kodesh.
    Go be Mekarev some friends,or kids that need some love and attention.
    Go tutor some students that need help in Chumash or Gemorrah.
    Make an organized,designated time for Mivtzoim.
    Make yourself a SEDER, get busy,and you’ll
    see how HAPPY and FULFILLED you will become,
    until very soon you will find your Bashert,that you have to look for with the same urgency that you are looking for a lost object of yours
    Hatzlacha Rabbah to you

  • to #44 - titled "Wrote"

    great comment- I just hope that the gossip – is not true Loshon Horah

  • Best of BOTH Worlds

    When I was a bochur (a few months ago) I too kept seder by putting in a SOLID 3 and 1/2 hours a day of REL learning – not a second wasted. I learned chassidus, halacha, gemarah and sichos – approx 45 minutes of each. I also went to COPE of Agudah in BoroPark and earned a degree in Accounting. I am now in Kollel but also work part time for a CH accountant. I still learn AND earn a decent living. I might get a shlichus and continue having the best of all three worlds: shlichus, learning and earning. Most important, I am productive with my time and feel accomplished. YOU CAN DO IT TOO!!! If you aren’t learning 8 hours a day, learn 4, but make it real. Then use the rest of your time in a kosher place to earn a career.

  • A GOOD IDEA

    I understand where this bochur is coming from. They should give these bochurim “a job” of tutoring boys in the local Yeshivas. That would be a win win for everyone. The boys need help and the bochurim need to break up their day and have a purpose. The young boys need mentors, tutoring and good chassidishe role models. This is the answer. We don’t have enough local shlichus and we have tons of older boys who are bored. How can we get this started.

  • explain

    Why oh why is college the enemy???I am talking about a jewish college with only boys and other days girls.Why is everyone freaking out over college?you can go at night and be with other jewish guys.what is so wrong and what is wrong with you people?why does everything have to be the way it was 100 yrs ago?Can’t anything change with the times for a better future?

  • THE REBBEH SAYS (REPEATEDLY!! and PLEADINGLY!!!!!)

    ASEH LECHA RAV!!!

    Have you designated a (qualified) Rav, Yedid mavin whom you will follow?
    whom you will share a regular and honest update and accounting?
    whom you will present all question (even questions others raise doubts about)?

    Did you choose a Rav (yedid mavin) who fits the 3 conditions (to be worthy of that role< and to be a conduit to sayaata dshmaya?

  • THE REBBEH SAYS (REPEATEDLY!! and PLEADINGLY!!!!!)

    comment 44
    well said!

    Enduring (lasting) joy and success comes from following (authentic) chabad chassidus, not just picking and choosing as many (who look like rabbis) do.

    in the short term, the klipos may allow it to seem worthwhile to break some rules and do other than the Rebbe’s instructions, but that is short lived, if you dig a little under the surface, (within those who willfully departed from the Rebbe’s teachings) you will find much pain and emptiness below the surface!

    the Rebbe’s way is THE way to live a happy and fulfilled life w/o regrets! Tov Lashomayim and Tov LaBrios!

  • to # 43

    “programmers are highly in demand”-do you know where? Any places? Any leads? My husband is ACTUALLY in College & finishing his courses in programming in less thanTWO months!!!! PLEASE let me know-thanks!!!

  • Develop yourself...

    I especially agree with #2. I noticed this as a huge problem or situation long ago when I moved to CH.
    There are so many worthwhile things a person is capable of doing, if only they wish to explore their skills and talents. Don’t leave ruchanis behind though. It’s the rock of our foundation.

  • to #47 Best of BOTH Worlds

    Where do I find out about COPE from Agudah? Sounds like a perfect solution for me. I am in 770 doing smicha and have lots of extra time which is being wasted. I am looking for a kosher place to get some vocational training which won’t mess up my good name for shidduchim.

  • Been there!

    You sound like a great bochur going through the 770 doldrums.

    When i was in 770 22 years ago I saw that I was wasting a lot of time so I went to help out in a Yeshivah learned half day and taught half a day. My semicha took 4 years instead of one but it was a lot better than sleeping in about what I was doing. This is not the only option but you need to find something you are enthused about and put yourself in an enviorment which supports your goals and helps your success.

    Without clear cut goals it is hard to be successful

    1) You have half of the solution. You are not happy wasting time. The chavrusa, the environment, and what you are learning are not working for you

    2)you are committed to learn torah al taharas hakodesh and focus on learning which is the Rebbe’s ideal before marriage. If you need a ged, college education or training for your future profession, you will wait until marriage.

    3) The vacuum is destructive. If you get used to wasting time 20 years from now you may find yourself reading at 10 am in the morning instead of being productive.

    4)when you are depressed about what you are not doing you are more open to destructive and negative behaviour. habor reik ein bo mayim when there is no water there are lots of snakes. nature abhors a vacuum.

    5) the ability to make your own structure can be a positive if you have certain areas of learning yuou were not able to explore in yeshivah you cna gain a mastery over areas that will be useful in the future

    The upshot of all this is that it is imperative that you not be reactive but proactive creating goals for yourself in learning, finding a good chavrusah either one who needs your help or one who is very comitted and a good location to do this in. alternatively being engaged in peulos that are compatible with staying a chassidishe bochur.

    good luck! if good is good better is better.

  • shlomo

    At least one honestly man. To all that supports not going to university, simple question, why you always looking for Jewish doctor ,if you need help? Go to 770, open igros. You can always find ArabMD , but you people want Jewish MD , from where?