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Authorities Save Abused Donkey in Kfar Chabad
After Israeli veterinary authorities received a number of complaints, inspectors were dispatched to Kfar Chabad to check on the welfare of two donkeys owned by a local resident.
When inspectors arrived they only found one donkey, and it was in bad condition. The animal was tied in a way it could not move, and it suffered from malnutrition, swollen joints, eye infections and other problems.
The Agriculture Ministry inspectors made the decision to remove the animal after learning children in the area would come and visit to take turns beating it.
They learned the second donkey had died of abuse.
The owner apparently did nothing to protect the animals from the beatings sustained by children.
comment
it’s a shame that frum children and especially chabad who are taught beautiful concepts are not taught to be careful with tzaar baalei chayim. which according to some opinions is min Hatorah osur.
Loshon Hara
It’s a shame you areso quick to believe loshon hara.
Jim M.
the exact OPPOSITE of how I thought people behaved in a Chabad…especially in Israel. Perhaps I am naive, but I am very disappointed in these people. I am glad to hear some good people filled complaints.
also comment
I agree with #1 for sure.
Can someone ask someone there if they can make sure to bring that up to the children now, and go over those halachos and the midos we are supposed to have, etc.?? Very important.
thats upsetting in several ways.
k
שו”ת אגרות משה חושן משפט חלק ב סימן מז
כי כל דבר שהוא לצורך האדם ליכא איסור צער בע”ח =בעלי חיים= דהא התירה התורה שחיטה ולא רק לאכילת ישראל אלא אף לאכילת נכרים מותר לשחוט, ואף לכבוד דאדם בעלמא
If there is ANY purpose for humans, except satisfying sadistic lust, it is permitted.
Note:Shulchan Aruch, Even Ha’ezer, 5:14 it is customary from refraining from such activities as plucking feathers from a live duck, even though there may be some benefit to a person, because it is deemed unnecessarily cruel.
Also Iggros Moshe, Even Ha’ezer, 4:92 limits the benefit to man that is apparent and genuine. To force-feed an animal, for example, simply in order for the meat to appear to be of better quality, when in fact there is no actual difference, is forbidden, because such dubious benefit does not justify Tza’ar Ba’alei Chayim.
Levi Tal
As the saying goes: Every bochur is a rabbi now, but nobody knows the law
Fairy 247
Very upsetting to read such news. First, the owner should be educated on the laws of tza’ar baalei chaim. Mamash disgrace.
Animals were made for our enjoyment!
Animals were made to serve us humans. And especially jews since we are superior to all non jews. PRAISE G-D!
Rabbi Yisrael the son of Petachyah Isserlin (1390-1460), one of the great Ashkenaz rabbis, wrote in his book Terumat HaDashan, “Cutting the tongue of a bird so it will speak and the ears and tail of a dog to beautify it–these things seem to me not to be forbidden as causing suffering to animals if it is done for people’s own needs and use, for all creatures were created only to serve man.”
Ignorant BT
… And where does he say it’s okay for brats with yarmulkes and tzitzit to beat a defenseless donkey?
Milhouse
Yes, animals were made for our use, and there is nothing wrong with using them for our benefit even if it causes them distress. But taking sadistic pleasure from their suffering is not a use or a benefit. On the contrary, it damages our souls, and turns us into animals ourselves, no better than them. Torturing animals for no purpose, as these children are alleged to have done (and remember it is only an allegation) is forbidden by the very same Torah that permits us to use animals. Even some technically permitted uses, such as plucking a feather from a living bird, are so cruel that no decent person could bring himself to do so; how much more so when it is forbidden.
The key question to ask in every case is whether the animal’s suffering is the purpose, or merely an unintended and unwanted side-effect. The former is sadistic and thus forbidden, the latter is permitted.
Oh Please
Bilom’s aizel is going to give such a beating one day and say….
“ah that felt so good “
Yosef
Love how Milhouse paints himself as the voice of reason here (“it damages our souls, etc, etc….”) yet has no problem calling other Jews “slime” and “filth” when they disagree with him in other posts. Keep truckin’ Milhouse, you’ll get there someday!
k
“The key question to ask in every case is whether the animal’s suffering is the purpose, or merely an unintended and unwanted side-effect. The former is sadistic and thus forbidden, the latter is permitted.”
Wrong!
If the animal’s suffering is the purpose – because that is therapeutic to the human, then it IS permitted. In contrast, if the animal’s suffering is an unintended and unwanted side-effect – but brings no benefit to the human, then it iz forbidden.
If you state a halocha, bring the source or be honest and admit you made it up.
Jim M.
Aren’t animals also G_d’s creatures?
k
Animals are Hashem’s creatures and may be used (and even abused) according to Hashem’s will.
We abuse Hashem too when we do not follow halacha or continue to contribute to the duration of our golus.
Before getting to Animal Rights, people must first concern themselves how they treat other humans starting with abuse of helpless children by parents and teachers. Emotional abuse often leave scars well after the scars of physical abuse healed.
Spousal abuse by those who we trust and must live with is also of primacy. Psychological, emotional, power, control, threats, blackmail are all forms of abuse that are rampant.
Abuse by leaders of community exerting their power and influence is also a real abuse and form of bulling. Who gets accepted into the school, yeshiva, daycare or gets a certain benefit and who is disqualified because of a personal agenda – is all an actual abuse of power.
Abuse of process of which person can get a shlichus, which bochur gets a camp job or goes on mercaz shlichus – when not based on merits or ability is a true form of abuse.
We abuse others when it comes to shidduchim – “beating them up” for various reasons or “just because”.
Why start with the helpless donkey when there are helpless humans who we abuse and destroy?
YMSP
k – Are you actually saying that hitting a donkey in order to take out one’s frustrations is ok? My friend, you’re worse than Call of the Shofar. There’s nothing “therapeutic” about it and it is tzaar baalei chayim (the exceptions in Shulchan Aruch are all documented tangible benefits).
Anyway, glad to see that Beis Medresh Govoha (your stated Kollel) has its priorities straight. All I can really say is Ashreinu Sheonu Chassidim.
For the record, I think the story’s hogwash, like most internet garbage, but to say that this would be ok….. The Kotlers must be smoking something funny these days.
Milhouse
Yes, Yosef, I am the voice of reason. Who are you?
Please tell us which Jews I have called “slime” or “filth”. I think you’re projecting.
K continues in his role here as the voice of unreason. He is either incapable of reading and comprehending simple English, or deliberately lying. EIther way, the halacha is exactly as I have given it, and exactly the opposite of K’s claim.
Hurting an animal for the purpose of making it suffer is forbidden. K claims that it’s OK if the sadistic pleasure one takes from this is “therapeutic”; on the contrary, no decent person could possibly find “therapy” in such a thing, and if someone does then it shows that they need real therapy, urgently, to eradicate this terrible midah from their character.
However when the animal’s suffering is merely an unintended and unwanted byproduct of using an animal for a legitimate purpose, it is permitted, though in some extreme cases (such as plucking a quill from a living bird) no decent person could bring himself to do it.
Jim M, yes, animals are G-d’s creatures, and He created them for a specific purpose: to serve man. If fulfilling this purpose requires that they suffer a bit, that is sad but acceptable. So long as one takes no pleasure in it, it’s OK. But what these kids are alleged to have done (and it is only an allegation) is exactly what the Torah forbids.
k
YMSP – I sense a bit of snarkyness in your comment. I am mochel on my kovod but cannot be mochel the kovod of the Yeshiva or its RY’s.
Hashkofos, hanochos and true Jewish values that are al pi Torah often to not correlate with da’as ba’al habayis.
You must be a full time serious Torah learner to have da’as Torah – thinking the way the Torah wants us to.
Without being immersed in Torah – your values, moral and ethics are based on the goyish street and tumah. Yes, goyim also have a system of values but that includes mercy killings, abortion etc. Mamash murder!
So take a step back and realize that your values are well intended but they come from the street – a place worse than Call of the Shofar (which you are still obsessed over).
Many activities “can” be therapeutic – different strokes for different folks.
As an example:
Fasting can be allowed on Shabbos if it is “therapeutic” because of a bad dream. The self infliction of tzar by fasting is transformed to “Oneg Shabbos”.
The Gemarah Shabbos Perek HaOreig allows destruction of property (normally forbidden by Ba’al Tashchis) when it has therapeutic purposes such as instilling disciple in one’s household.
I would rather see a frustrated parent beat up a donkey than a child. Let the angry spouse abuse the donkey instead of the human.
Hashem poured out His anger on the wood and stones during the churban, but spared (most of) the Jewish Nation.
May you have the zchus to learn Torah Lishma and develop Da’as Torah.
great for your thougts but take it somewere else
if i reemeber corectly it also say somthing in the torah i dont no TZARBEL LCAHIM
WHAT OUR USE FROM BEATING IT
YES WHAT IS
Yosef
Let’s see, Milhouse. On October 21, 2013 you branded fellow commenter “Sam” “a poisonous slime who contributes nothing of any value, either to this site or to the world.” Here’s the link: http://crownheights.info/shlichus/405480/chicago-rabbi-is-lifeline-to-jews-behind-bars/
On August 30, 2012 you posted the following comment: “You have a big chutzpah to tell me to shut up. YOU should shut your filthy face and keep off this site.” Again, here’s the link: http://crownheights.info/chabad-news/46531/lubavitcher-kallah-jailed-for-defection-from-idf/
Were these just Freudian slips?
k
Yosef, Please do not confuse Milhouse by putting his own words to him.
While my opinions are either backed with sources often citing “chapter and verse” or I give opinions based on my da’as Torah which I acquired by many years of continued dedicated learning lishmo, Milhouse makes up things as he goes along and calls everyone else a liar while trying to mislead the public, like the true maisis u’mediach which he is.
I question his motives of being a machte ess harabim, if that bring him pleasure or it is a l’hachis (in spite)?
I had offered to teach him a shtikel gemmarah, Rashi and Tosfos (without ArtScroll) so that he can have the kedushas Hatorah in his heart, but the offer was not taken up. Maybe he fears the loss of am haratzus? (I won’t say apikursusos because that requires a madreiga of mastery of lomdos which he has not achieved).
k
The Node B’Yehuda has a teshuva on hunting animals simply for human pleasure (sport). He says that it would NOT be ossur because the human derives purpose (pleasure) from the hunting, however, he calls it achzarios and bad for the midos.
Milhouse wrote: “K claims that it’s OK if the sadistic pleasure one takes from this is “therapeutic”; on the contrary, no decent person could possibly find “therapy” in such a thing”
The Node Beyuda agrees with me, while Milhouse disagrees with both myself and the NB.
But soon he will respond saying that the NB actually DOES agree with him and that I misquoted or lied – k’darko bakodesh.
YMSP
K – Daas baalei batim hepech Daas Torah is from Sefer Meiras Einayim.
I’ve seen you advocate for removing kids from parents, cursing out Milhouse over styrofoam (which has clear Maasei Rav – meaning many people – and which the Blumenkratzs go into detail on all of the tzadei heter, enough to make it lchatchila ok) and a whole bunch of other stuff, which is not Daas Torah.
Shulchan Oruch, on the other hand, is Daas Torah. Shulchan Oruch gives clear examples of permissible tzar – all of which show real, tangible and practical benefits for humans. Kicking a donkey is not one of them and we don’t have the right in today’s generation to make lamdonisher pilpulim (and being matir kicking a donkey is not a lamdonisher pilpul…… but anyway) on Shulchan Oruch. Doing so is being megaleh ponim baTorah shelo kahalacha – just like all the rabbis who push for coerced (invalid) gittin to protect themselves politically and at the expense of the woman’s best interests and halacha.
If you equate needed fasting on Shabbos (for which other ways should be tried first). The shitos coming out of your Kollel are farkrumt, unless these are your personal shitos, and they may be many things, but “Daas Torah” is not one of them.
HUH?
What service, needs or use to man are you talking about? Children beating an animal is NOT the same as having the animal carry a burden. Please contact your local orthodox rabbi – or your psyciatriest. I think you need help. Big time.
K
YMSP wrote to me: Daas baalei batim hepech Daas Torah is from Sefer Meiras Einayim.
Are you giving me the source?
הסמ”ע חו”מ ג,יג
Do you think that makes you a Ben Torah?
If a horse knows that 2+2+4, it is an incredible horse, but it doesn’t make the horse a mathematician.
Knowing a Sem”a does not make you a ben Torah.
YMSP
K – I B”H have no desire to compete with you for any titles that you think you have, and wish that you soon truly have all of them (although your current shitos seem to be far from such titles – and I’m also far from them, but at least not in a way that makes new shitos).
More important than this dumb flaming war, it needs to be repeated that we can’t make our own lomdonisher pilpulim on halacha and that doing so is very serious, with all the factors of ivus hadin and similar to nevius sheker according to nosei keilim.
I’ll give you that the Noda B’Yehuda gives you a possible – possible – semach for your svora on this one. But you yourself write that his maskono is not like you anyway.
I’d say less kind things about someone who looks for a semach to be matir kicking a donkey. That’s not something we look for lomdonisher heterim for.
On a final note, I commend you for sharing but have to warn you that, as a friend says, “chassidim hoben a guter chush hareiach” and saying you’re a “Ben Torah” and you learn “Torah Lishmo” makes one think that you don’t quite know the meaning of the term.
I’ll make you an offer – reverse or similar – to that which you made Milhouse. I’ll let you teach me whatever sugyo or shetach you want for 30 min a week if you let me teach you the same 30 min chassidus. Again, I don’t claim to have Torah Lishmo. I just know that Chassidus, taught by anyone who can, makes the rest of your learning a Sam haChaim instead of something else. Contact the mods for my email if you take me up on that.
YMSP
Btw, Yosef, I’ve seen some threads where someone was imitating Milhouse (he protested right away) and at least quote one sounds like the imitator.
Boy. From the hood
So now Every Chabad hater Will post His anger
What’s The point
Don’t we have enough ?
Milhouse
Do Lubavitcher children no longer read Sefer Hazichronos? Is this story unfamiliar to them?
k
Sefer HaZichronos of Rav Tzadok HaCohen?
I know the entire sefer and it does not speak of anything to do with hurting animals!!
Milhouse, you can fool many readers who simply are ignorant but you can’t fool me when you make things up!
YMSP
I think he means Sefer HaZichronos of the Frierdiker Rebbe (would suggest Likutei Dibburim too – starting with the Pesach likut).
um please dont have my head
As a little girl, my parents read to me from the book “call of the shofar”….. there is a story with a strong lesson about not doing tzar balei chayim.
Me too
We read the book too about a boy called Yitzchok shaul. Had everlasting profound effect! Every kid should read it!
mig
To all commenters:
Do you believe everything you read or see in the media? This includes Jewish websites or newspapers/magazines. I don’t. We are obligated to give dan l’chaf z’chus. We don’t really know what actually happened so before we make any comment we should verify if this story is true.
Some commentators are donkeys,
That’s why their outraged.
Andrea Schonberger
The owner of the donkey and the “frum” children ought to be whipped. When I was about 3 years old my father saw me pull our cat’s tail and drag him about–boy was I whipped! Never again was I mean to an animal. Sometimes it’s better to be whipped to nip bad behavior in the bud rather than condemn someone to a lifetime of evil.
YMSP
Hum… a story from Yenta World News with no names or sources other than themselves trashing Chabad, with comments on their site trashing Chabad….
Yep…. I believe everything I read on these sites. So glad that DeBlasio is fixing the bris issue……. (rofl)
And yes, if it were true, it would be a terrible thing, although it could be 7-10 year old kids (who should still know better). But that’s a big, big if.
A shliach
Why do you have to habg dirty laundry outside???!!! whats the point please?!
YMSP
Maybe b/c it’s a YWN article and hopefully some here will see it and post that we don’t like them trashing Lubavitch.
Pinchas Ben Yair
Ah, what a heart warming story.
And to think, in just a few short years these wonderful, Chasidishe bochurim will be part of the Kvutzah.
Ah, how proud the Rebbe must feel.
The Abuse word
should be added to The Official List of Frum Swear Words
Its catchy, it works
Animal Rights
mamash tzar baalei chayim, kipshutoy
oy, only in the time of The Olden Days was it KoSher to break the neck of a Peter ChaMor with a sledgehammer because HaShem said so and it was a MItzVah and because because it was a ComAndmant
but toDay we have DINA DMALCHUSA DINA and it is assur to cause animals such terrible harm oy vey poor animal, to where have we come, Ye”Ridas Ha”^**Doyroy’s, we should call for a demonstration and call PETA and punish The Boch’Rim for such a terrible sin, oy vay it’s worse than BrainWashing!
HUH?
you are comparing a Miztvah to kids abusing an animal to death. What have you been smoking lately?
Oy Andrea Schonberger,
You should get help for being whipped like that!!!
I know of a “program” that could help you deal with such horror stories of childhood abuse and traumatizing memories of being whipped, especially after whipping others, perhaps whipping runs in families, the treatment is called Call of the Shofar, thought it supposedly indicated for memories of Petch, I don’t know if the manufacturer claims an indication for the treatment of Childhood Flogging.
humor aside there is a similar story by the freierdiker rebbe in his Memoirs describing a child who was cruel to the little chickies in the yard who also got a whipping from his father, then his father wept at the thought of teaching his son a lesson, but then the child grew up to possess a quality we call empathy.
I don’t have the page at hand but If you could find it you would certainly identify with it.
Oy and
and CHI maybe its time to begin educating your readers with news from places such as the Memoirs of the Lubavich rebbe,
I find the story of The Boy who Teased the Chicks far more interesting and lesson worthy then middle eastern zoology abuse.
ומי יודע אם לעת כזאת הגעת כו
cs
I agree with #’s 32 and 38. Thankyou for your meaningful comments.
Anonymous
Interesting thought: cursing was a big big big no-no at the COTS thing – equated in the article to IDOL WORSHIP – yet beating a defenseless tied-up donkey to death? NOW we can all be good jews and dan lechaf zchut? i think there is an english word for that: HYPOCRISY (not that the kids are NECESARILLY to blame, but anyone – ie owner of the donkey – aware of this had a responsibility, according the first chabad rabbi, to tell them to stop). Doesn’t matter in the global scale of the real world though.