Op-Ed: ‘Chabad Lite’

by Doe Namay

Illustration Photo.

In Lubavitch there is the phenomenon of the so called “Chabad Lite” community. People who grew up as Lubavitchers, consider themselves Lubavitchers, but do nothing to actually be Lubavitch. They don’t dress like the way a Lubavitcher would dress, speak the way one would speak, or act in the basic way a chossid would act. In general, I have no issue with these types of people; many of them are my friends and neighbors and we get along wonderfully. I have one major issue: they consider themselves Lubavitch, and take part in our mosdos.

You may ask: “why can’t they be Lubavitchers if that is what they consider themselves?”

My question to you is, if someone buys a pair of military fatigues from the clothing store, is he a special-ops soldier? If he claims he is, saying: “look, I even have the clothes,” You would laugh at him. One is not considered a special-ops soldier simply by calling himself one, nor by owning of a uniform. There are training procedures that have to be fulfilled, as well as constant vigilance and the strict following of rules.

In Lubavitch we are the same. Just because one wears a sirtuk does not make him a Lubavitcher. The Rebbe set out guidelines of what he wanted his chassidim to look like and what type of lives he wanted them to lead.

For the moment, put aside the issue of the simple chillul shaim Lubavitch that such people make – I am not here to defend the name of Lubavitch. I am writing this to defend the integrity of out communities, of our children and of our future.

What happens in Lubavitch schools that have kids from these so called “Chabad Lite” families? There is much confusion. It creates many, many issues.

I live in Los Angeles. Here, we Baruch Hashem have a flourishing cheder together with a wonderful girls school. Now, what happens when your daughter comes home from school wondering why her friend doesn’t dress the way her teacher taught? Why her friend’s “Mommy” doesn’t cover her hair and wears skirts that are way too short?

Don’t kid yourselves, these questions are being asked! It used to be that when questions like that were asked, a parent was able to answer their child that their friend was part of a different community, more modern, not Chabad, etc. Nowadays, however, that distinction is gone! These are our friends and neighbors! These are our children’s classmates! The way it influences the children is horrible! How is a parent supposed to explain to their child why her friend and classmate doesn’t dress tzniusdik?

The problem is found in the boys’ schools as well. You have children coming from homes where television is allowed and they literally corrupt their classmates! Here I have major issue with the schools as well! The Polishe-chassidishe school here in town makes parents sign a document that if they find out that the child has a television in their home the kid will be thrown out of school. The litvisher school makes parents sign a paper that they will not allow their children to watch TV on school nights, and in general the school discourages television. The one school in town for fully frum children that doesn’t have such a policy: the Lubavitcher school. Why? Our Rebbe was so clear about how he felt about television and there are countless sichos about it, but for some reason schools are afraid to “use” the Rebbe as a reason. Why not just say it how it is? We are Lubavitchers, our Rebbe said this is not allowed, and it is therefore not acceptable!?

The other issue is the parents. Why do they send their kids to our schools? Do they not realize that we, the Lubavitch community at large, holds to higher standards? Do they not realize the message they teach at home does not coincide with what their kids are being taught at school? Why can’t they have the decency to start their own school, or send their kids to a school which educates the children the way the parents lead their lives? Why do they feel the right to push their way of living on others, to corrupt others’ children? Don’t they realize that they are giving their kids a mixed message? They are basically saying, “do as I say, not as I do.” Is this fair to their children?

Yes, I am expecting many haters in the comments, and I will try to preempt a few of them by answering questions they will raise:

1) Lubavitch is about ahavas yisroel? My answer: Connection? I love those people as brothers, as Jews. That does not mean I have to stoop to their level. The Rebbe was never for lowering our standards in order to bring others closer. Loving them has nothing to do with not accepting their way of life.

2) What about baalei teshuva? How can we make baalei teshuva and yet not tolerate these people. My answer: A baal teshuva is someone who is in the process of going up. These people are in the process of going down. Even with baalei teshuva, often times shluchim will open schools for their communities but not send their own children there. The simple reason being, that those kids are not yet on the level that they want their own kids to be.

In conclusion, all I want is for these groups of so called ”Chabad Lite / Modern Orthodox Lubavitchers” (a term which in and of itself does not make any sense, as it is an oxymoron) to detach themselves from the mainstream Lubavitch community. They can call themselves “Modern Orthodox” or “Friends of Chabad.” In truth, they can even call themselves Lubavitchers, but they should separate themselves from us. They can live their lives however they want to; I draw the line, however, when they try forcing their lifestyle upon others.


  • Brave

    Shkoach for writing this. Im sure it wasn’t easy. I agree with you in many respects, but Im also nervous…maybe calling themselves Lubuvitch and sending their kids to Lubuvitch schools are the only things that are keeping some people even a little bit frum?

    I know that we can’t let our children suffer for this possibilty, but Im reminded of a moshel.If a warm pot of soup is taken off the stove and cold water is added, the soup will cool down, but if the pot is still on the stove when the cold is added, instead of the soup becoming cold, the water will be heated. The nimshal being that as long as our children are still on the stove, still attached to the source of heat (learning chassidus and being inspired) then instead of others having an affect on them, they will influence others.

    And I also think that the bottom line of ones child’s education needs to be, “what does the Rebbe want from me?” Once people start looking to what others are doing there will be problems, chabad lite or no.

  • true

    Amazing article… soo sad but true…. when will they realize how much they hurting us?

  • mother

    OT needs to institute a policy similar to BR: mothers who come to school dressed the way they do should not be allowed in. Trouble is, they wait on the sidewalk, where OT has no authority. But parents SHOULD NOT let their kids play with these boys.

    How can we guarantee Kashrus of food & drink if little Mendy’s or Chavi’s Mom wears a skirt 6″ above her knee? No/mimimal sleeves & no leg covering in the summer?

    I’m sick of saying these things, under my own name, in public. I’ve even spoken loudly about the need to be appropriate in these women’s presence (no, I’m not the person who approached Mrs. Untznius Divorcee on eastern Parkway.) I’m not by nature a confrontational person so i won’t directly approach anyone but it upsets me.

    My married and single children don’t understand why I feel so strongly. But my daughter is beginning to get it now she sees her children’s classmates mothers. She won’t let her children go to their homes to play. She’s afraid they’ll get a choluv akim snack. She’s right. If they go public about the way they dress what are they doing in private? More to the point, what are they NOT doing? Like properly keeping the dinim?

    It’s not about BT/lifer, although from what I see the majority of people who dress and act like VERY modern orthodox have been through our system and know better. The author is right but I honestly don’t know what we can do to halt this epidemic.

  • Anonymous

    Thank you for writing this! This is something that needs to be said. The one issue I have is where you say they should separate and form their own school etc. Don’t u think that will further distance them from Lubavitch. It’s sad enough to see what is going on out there. By creating their own Shul and school they are validating their view and continuing to live that way because nobody is stopping them. There needs to be a different way to change this problem.

  • I have a few issues with this..

    Do you consider yourself Jewish even though you dont keep all of the commandments which Hashem commaded us? Most probably. and its true you still are Jewish , 100% in fact. Think about all the other “forms of Judiasm” no matter if they go to shul or not, eat treif, c’v, or do what ever they are still considered Jewish.
    Think about it, being a true chosid is having a connection with the Rebbe. For everyone that is different.
    I understand that there is a growing issue related to tznius reasons- however we all have struggles some are just more shown then others. Who are we as people to say oh my she or he is dressed a certain way and they are so not tznius, well iam sure if we put a camera inside your life and watched it there would be things that other people would have an issue with too.
    We all have issues and the main thing is that we keep growing- i think instead of pointing fingers and saying he or she really insnt what they say they are because of the actions and the things they do, i think what needs to be done is realize that we are not Hashem and we shouldnt judge.

  • so true

    I live in CH, one spring morning I drove my daughter to school, when I stopped at the light of Empire and Brooklyn, she looked out the window and said “mommy that lady is a mommy and she is wearing a short skirt and has no socks on” what was I supposed to answer my daughter? I said to her “ I know she’s a mommy but she is not dressed the way she should. It’s not tzniustik to walk around like that.” If these women think that we need to teach our children tolerance for this behavior then they should move to a modern orthodox community. This is CROWN HEIGHTS!!!

  • sc from ch

    Very well said. I live in CH & I never thought I would see the day when a “Lubavicher” women would walk around in pants & not cover their hair

  • tznius

    Just because a person is not “Lubavitch” they still have to dress in a tznius way.


    Who and what r u? In all due respect, I fault the system, the lack of education, people like yourself, who in my opinion missed the whole point of what and where lies the problem. The message is well taken, but totally misconstrued.
    The famous saying I’ve heard from people with your way of coming down on the derailment of the NOW generation, is “IT’S NOT WHAT YOU KNOW BUT WHO YOU KNOW”.
    Perhaps this is where the double standard stems from. Again I stress lack of learning, education, and incorrectly addressing the situation!
    Don’t minimize your young and upcoming “LITE LUBAVITCHERS”. They’re still way better then FREMDE, and they are OURS. (btw this terminology LITE LUBs is a first for me. lol. live and learn I guess)
    I AM a PARENT, and therefore take the liberty of writing what I did. My philosophy is and always was, Constructive criticism, given with love and understanding goes way further then condemnation, without comprehension, and BALANCE. (big word)
    After all these our OUR children, not YENEMS.

  • Shaya

    A)All i gather from this that a child who’s parents are not “frum enough” for you, is not entitled to a proper chasidish education (i know families that have televisions and parents my not be modest enough and their children are “proper lubavichers”

    B)Most of these parents of whom you speak are themselves products of the lubavitch yeshiva system and come from proper lavaivitch homes (with no tv and proper parents) and look how they turned out

    C)If you want to address the issues with the “lubavitch System”, why dont you start with the general lack of manners and respect shown by the children (and most of the parents) with in our community? why dont you look at the “Quality” of some of the “rabaim” in the yeshiva system? why dont you address the amount of “infighting” going on with in our so called leadership? Bus most of all, instead of telling other people what we should do, take a moment and look at what you can change in your own home to raise your children properly. May I be so rude as to suggest you teach them some tolerance and respect for those that dont hold the same ideals as you.

  • seen it all

    thank you for expressing my feelings. my only question, is the tv issue the most important? mode of dress (short/slinky), computer/computer games, how they spend their yomim tovim (usually at hotels), and the list goes on and on and on. “friends of lubavitch” sounds great. my suggestion as to where they should live – move to an area where there are no old-time lubavitchers, and start up a new community.

  • Caught and Helped.Throw LifePerserver

    I went to Public School in NYC. Every amount of Torah is Holy and important and connected to Hashem. Maybe we can get the children to teach their parents more about Yiddishkeit and the Holy Rebbe’s Holy Sichos. There is ABSOLUTLY NO REDEMPTION IN PUBLIC SCHOOL. YIDDEN WILL SURELY *FAIL* THERE. WHEN THEY FALL *CATCH THEM AND HELP THEM*

  • well said

    When the term chabad vs. chabad lite is mentioned, i think of less calories, or less sodium. This is so true to the annology you bring up. However, we as Lubavitchers are trained to have ahavas yisroel and not banish these type of people in our communities. I think they feel comfortable whithin lubavitch schools etc. because this is where they were born and raised and they have plenty of company with them so why bother staring their own mosdos?
    Also, Plenty of these types of people change dramatically as their children grow up and they want to be an example. By being amoung us however, they can always come back easier, but if they leave, it wont be as easy.

  • Rabbi

    Thank you for your comment. I have been waiting for such an article to be printed, expressing my identical frustration. I only have disagreement. Since when are we trying to MAKE Ba’alei Teshuvah? Answer: Never. We are trying to spread chassidus and every chossid if he grows in his avoda is a Ba’al Teshuvah. I don’t like the lashon, “make Ba’alei Teshuvah.” Please forgive me if this disagrees with you.

    In any case, it is essential that this is discussed objectively and openly, so thank you.

  • amazing

    and i thought it was the other way around, that the really frum lubavitchers inthe school will bring their frumkeit on the kids that come from these so called modern homes!!

  • do what shulcuhim do

    tell your kids that he is the shliach on the school and that he needs to be held to a higher standard then everyone else

  • money

    if the schools didnt take in there modern kids the schools would have no money and you would not have a place to send your child to!

  • why do they need to stay in our faces?

    great article! Thank you for putting to paper what so many of us have on our minds!

  • Disagree

    Who says they are trying to force their lifestyle on others? Maybe this is the lifestyle the want to lead, they want their children to have the opportunity to live in a way they either cannot or do not want to live. The only issue you have seems to be with the school system. In many communities, there may not be other options for non-chabad schools, or the chabad school may be the most frum option. Would it be better to send their children to coed schools? You are trying to force your lifestyle on them, not the other way around. They are just trying to live their lives. And in regards to your “preemptive response” to the comments about ahavas yisrael: you clearly haven’t internalized the teachings of Chabad if you refer to “stooping to their level” while talking about other Jews. What does that even mean? Can you truly say you know what level they are at and that you are definitely higher?

  • chl

    yes, it seems that the “lite” group who have evolved, do want others to be a part of them. Mothers are insulted when asked to dress tznius in order to pick up their children, etc. Most of your article makes sense, and you may be bringing awareness about this issue….however, it doesnt seem that there is much to be done about it. It is frustrating because we must be cautious consumers when we are trying to raise our children in an environment where the children are (hopefully)growing in their yidishkeit, the way the Rebbe encouraged us to. However, we cannot change the next person. Therefore, we must try to fortify our own families and talk to our children about what is important. What else can we do?

  • Agree

    Very valid point! These parents would also be helping out their OWN children by removing this dichotomy from their lives.

  • Eli

    I agree with you and everything you have written. You are not only 100% right, you are 1000% right.

    However you must understand that ‘Chabad lite’ is a tragic by-product and unfortunate consequence of gimmel tammuz.

    It represents a generation of lubavitchers who are extremely confused.

    On the one hand they grew up as kids prior to tammuz 3 being told the rebbe is moshiach and were tought to say yechi with the same passion and belief as one says shema yisroel.

    Then they saw the events of gimmel tammuz and all the groise mashpiim scrambling for answers, all the politics, the infighting, the craziness.

    We cannot blame them.

    Stop being selfish. Get off your high horse and each out to them the way the Rebbe would have wanted us to.

  • Post-modern, sirtuk-wearing Lubavitcher

    Did you ever ask yourself WHY the current generation of Lubavitchers are opting for the Lite version? Perhaps it’s because of narrow-minded, exclusionary, pompous people like yourself….

    Or maybe it’s because people are rejecting the old lifestyle because it does not work for them. It’s an evolutionary process and people are free to choose. Thank you for making it easier for them.

  • Sorry for your kids

    The author saves the best for last

    “they can live their lives however they want to; I draw the line, however, when they try forcing their lifestyle upon others”

    Sounds like the author is the one trying to force a lifestyle on others. great to see Lubavitchers doing such a great job isolating their children from other types. No wonder there is so much anti modern orthodox sentiment in your community. Rest assured with the help of people like this author this will continue on to future generations. Modern orthodox are made out to be apikorsim among you. This is not only untrue, it is mean spirited. I wouldn’t send my children to school with yours only because I want my child to have a better education. However I do go to chabad Shuls and I would teach my children respect for other Jews. In short, to the author, as Lubavitchers love to say; kush in tuchus

  • name

    If they are honest with themselves, they know that they are part of our community simply because they want the easy benefits of our community – schools, stores, shuls, neighbors, etc. Yet they dont respect anything about our community which is more than a shame.

  • Ilana S

    Have you considered that it might be a good thing for kids to ask questions and shed a black-and-white mentality about their friends and neighbors? Also, how do you know if someone is going “up” or “down”? It’s only for Hashem to analyze such things, and as Pirkei Avos says, if you don’t like your neighbors, move!

  • CR

    …and this, boys and girls, is what happens when you have a Chassidus without a Rebbe. Like the way Breslov has attracted all manner of well-meaning people who nonetheless do their own thing Lubavitch has become pretty much the same thing over the pat 20 years. When rappers, reggae musicians and prize-fighters are held up as icons for new generations do not expect yungerleit to grow up aspiring to become Shmuel Munkis or Hillel Paritcher. And do not give lectures about “hiskashrus”; there is no comparison between reading about decades-old Rebbe ma’asehs in a sefer and actually seeing his face and hearing his words.

    We are leaderless and this is the result. And the men who purport to be our leaders today fall way short.

  • Wow, you voiced my opinion

    Thanks for writing this article I agree with you, but although it is easier for us (real Lubavitchers) to separate ourself from them, it is clearly not the Rebbe’s way. at least a little will rob off on them or maybe their children.
    My girls were playing dress up the other day and the were using the term frum but not tznius when I asked what they mean, they told me: just like your friend that we saw at the park the other they you said she is just not careful in tznius…

  • Yitzchak

    I suggest this lady read Rabbi Dalfin’s latest book, To Be Lubavitch and have others read as well. He addresses her issue at length.

  • mother of child influenced by them

    You are right!!!!!!!!! We have let all kinds of people into OUR Lubavitch community. They have brought us down. Our children who at this point are just as bad or maybe worse than some of them, would never get there without their influence. When kids see all the fighting, all the messiros from so called frum people, they get mixed messages. I understand that one shliach opened a school and only allowed kids whose parents acted and lived a certain way. It is time we said enough is enough. Get these people their own shul, and marry each other and keep the two separate.

  • Interesting

    Good poit about difference between bal teshuva and Chabd Lite- Bal TEshuva going up, Chabadlite yerida BTW isnt this the differnce between Bais Rivkah and Bais Chaya Mushka? One school for Chabadfrom home who are lite and another for super chabad and bal teshuva?

  • Motty

    What an amazing, and well- articulated article! So beautifully written, and unfortunately, SO true;
    No one can dare find fault or criticize his words . . . because all he’s asking is, that HIS kids be left to move on and allowed to grow up, according to his real sincere, true, way of life, as a parent today,and as such he has FULL rights to publish an item such as this!
    Let our children follow in the direction of their parents, and if their parents aren’t following THE direction, every parent should follow, then, fine . . . so be it . . but keep it to yourselves! Its nothing to do with Hafotzoh . .
    A Yasher Koach for being so open and frank and much much Hatzlocha with your kids . . . how blessed and lucky they are to have a parent such as yourself!

  • I agree but...

    I agree with you. I expect you will get many negative comments… but that is common with people who want to bring down standards and justify themselves as being right and righteous. Those of us who are not perfect (!! you know I mean all of us) try to keep the things we do that are not desirable to ourselves. We recognize that we are not up to the standard we are striving for and acknowledge our deficiencies. But we try not to force them on others or get angry that our lacks and the things we do to bring the community down are not accepted by others. I know there is no generic “we” in our community… but there are definitely two different ways of approaching our foibles and frailties.

    Nevertheless love is always called for. A kind word and efforts to educate can help a situation, like the Alter Rebbe did with the misnagdim… don’t jeer at them and scoff… daven in their minyanim, etc. You see how that has changed the entire misnagdishe world and brought them around to Chassidus.

  • Chabad-Satmar

    So you tell us which is worse – Chabad-Lite or Chabad-Satmar like you advocate.

  • Ahavas Yisroel

    The Rebbe did leave us with many basic guidelines and one of them is to be totally accepting and non judgmental of others. There may be another way to correct the problem which you point out very clearly.
    That is to have a system of schools in Crown Heights broken down to a maximum of 300 to 400 children per school. In this way the parents of each localized school would have greater involvement with the school and then they would for sure implement some of the things which you are suggesting in your article. In addition to parent involvement it would also allow for more dedication and supervision from the hanhala towards the children in the school and the children will feel better coming to a school where they know you better and where you are treated like an individual student rather than being treated as a number.

  • Proud Lubavitcher

    I have to tell you, when I saw the headline of this op-ed I was very intrigued. I do recognize this serious issue, and I was very curious how it would be addressed.

    Sadly, you did not go anywhere near what I was expecting or hoping. While you and I both share the same concern for this “Chabad-Lite” or as I hear it more often referred to as, “Modern Lubavitch”, we do not at all share the same approach or direction.

    First of all, it’s hard to imagine that a Lubavitcher, hard core, purist as you must be, seem to have written this. It feels as though it was written by a Yeshivish Kollel Yungerman looking down on his fellow Jew. Using phrases like “stoop to their level”, wow, can you imagine the Rebbe ever using the word stoop to describe the contrast between two yidden? You seem to be coming from a place of anger, and bitterness.

    Second, while I do agree its an issue that is getting more and more serious every passing day, I dont see how kicking them out of mainstream Lubavitch helps anyone!

    The ironic thing here is that while you are ashamed of them, I have been using them to show pride in Lubavitch and Chabad Chassidus. I have often mentioned to friends that when other frum groups of people see their own kind go down in their observance, fry out, or just arent as frum as their communities would like them to be, they are shunned, made to leave, made to feel unforgettable. Most of the “gechapped” (i.e. bummy) chassidim in williamsburg have moved to boro park, and the ones that totally fry out always move to far off places like Arizona or Texas.

    I think it’s a mailah of Chabad, and a sign of the Rebbe’s love, that our own who are less frum than us feel comfortable and want to stay in the Rebb’s schnuna or other Lubavitch communities. In their hearts they WANT to be a Chossid, they WANT to be near the flame, and they want their kids to have that same exposure and level of learning they had. (I even wonder if they secretly want their kids to be “regular” lubavitch!)

    Whatever issue you have in L.A., just imagine what goes on in Crown Heights where everything is way more intense, especially the schools, yet “modern lubavitch” couples, where the wives just barely cover the heads, forget their knees, dont move to the Five Towns or Teaneck, buy a huge house for the same price they are paying for their tiny apartments in Crown Heights.

    They stay here because at the end of the day they are Lubavitchers just like us, and they just need our love and respect. It’s a process, and for a group of people that is so used to putting ourselves out there, even sending our teenagers to walk the streets of Manhattan with Tefilin, Esrogim, and booklets of Chassidus, yet, when its in our own backyards, we become cold, bitter Misnagdim.

    You are right about one thing. I think we DO need to address the issue.

    Just not the way you did.

  • Justthefacts

    Putting aside the numerous contradictions in your editorial, let’s assume that you and your family are true representatives of Lubavitcher Chassidim, the following are the rules you should live by:

    1) Get rid of all internet in your home. Editorials on the internet are equivalent to television and all mass media. If you believe that it corrupts your children then “Do as I do” and set an example for your children.

    2) Create a mossed for your children, and all others like you, that does not accept any donations from any “Chabad-Lite” yidden or any other Jews that do not live up to you standards of religion. Once the reality has set in that without the support of the educated and more modern Jews all around you, your mossed would not survive for 1 year, unless your teachers are working for free. When you say “Why do they send their kids to OUR school?” they may answer “Why do YOU send your kids to our school?”

    I am not taking sides in this debate, because I am sick and tired on the countless online lectures on how a “real” lubavitcher should behave and dress etc. Crown Heights, as well as Lubavitch in general can no longer be defined by your narrow minded terms. The fact that Lubavitch is in the predicament of uncertainty and confusion today cannot be blamed on the Chabad Lites, but rather the “leadership” and political in-fighting that has plagued this community since the Rebbe’s passing. I am not referring to the highly successful Shluchim, who undisputedly do amazing work around the globe, I am talking about home base, where mixed messages and disillusioned youth are abound.

    The idea that the “modern lubavitchers” should separate themselves from you is in itself a baffling statement. Essentially, what you are suggesting is that the all accepting movement called “Chabad Lubavitch” has no room left for its own. It is a bold and audacious statement and I would go so far as to tell you that YOU are not a Lubavitcher and should consider joining the Polishe and Litvitshe chassidim that you so admire.

  • old timer

    correction: it ain’t lubavitch lite.

    people just can’t be bothered to keep the mitzvos properly–al pi halacha
    and give all sorts of excuses.

    lazy is as lazy does

  • A Different Perspective

    If you look into a very Lubavitch book, the Tanya, the Alter Rebbe explains that a person should not even judge the kal shebikalim in the market place because one cannot know his history. Perhaps, the Alter Rebbe explains, based on his history and challenges, the little that he does requires even more effort than whatever you so proudly think you are doing. Clearly, judgment of others is not part of the Lubavitch value system.

    I once attended a very inspirational workshop conducted by Mrs. Rivky Denberg at the Shluchos Convention. Many woman were asking questions similar to yours, “What should I tell my child if her unmarried teacher is pregnant?”, “How do I encourage my daughter to wear socks if her camp director wears flip flops?” The answer, she explained (though I paraphrase), lies in your perspective.

    1. Perspective 1: In order for my children to follow halacha, everyone around them must be following it as well. Inherent in this perspective is a big problem – a) following halacha is contingent on other people’s actions AND b) condemnation of others’ actions is necessary to continue to ensure the compliance of the kids. (see your article above for examples)

    This perspective doesn’t align with what the Alter Rebbe said about not judging others! Clearly, it can’t be the way of Chabad.

    2. Perspective 2: In order for my children to follow halacha, I need to teach them that this is their tafkid. This is what they should do because this is what Hashem expects of them. (dira bitachtonim, bring moshiach, etc) And if they want to know what to do and what not to do they should look in the Shulchan Oruch, not in other peoples’ living rooms/clothing choices. Introspection vs. Judgment.

    When our children ask us why other people make different choices, we can easily tell them what the Alter Rebbe said, that it’s not for us to judge others, we don’t know people’s history and why they make the choices they make. Our job is to try to be the best we can be. I remember Mrs. Denburg saying that she tells her son: when you go up to shamayim, Hashem is not going to ask you about other people, He’s going to want to see that you were the best Zalmy you could be.

    Momma Mia…

  • Educated BT leaving CH

    My wife and I just discussed this letter, combined with the attitudes we have experienced in CH.

    We both have Master’s Degrees, earn good parnossas, and have been frum for several years. BH we are expecting our first child.

    Within a year we are leaving CH because we don’t want our children growing up around people like this author. We are thrilled to move to a community where frumkeit isn’t used as a weapon or threat. Chabad houses need to warn against moving to CH.



  • standing on the fence

    I was just wondering why we focus solely on women and their tznuis/untznuis issues. when we have men walking around with 5 oclock shadows or less. Who are not putting on tefilin, not davening not learning a word of torah. Who are spending more time planning their motzei shabbos clubbing in manhattan then they are on their childrens chinuch. And yet they put on the kapote and hopefully a hat and get to call themselves lubavitchers! They are doing even less than upper west side modern orthodoxers. Why does the yeshiva knowing good and well what i would say 50% or more of their parent body are doing outside of yeshiva to undermine all the chinuch they give the children in yeshiva. Why is the yeshiva not allowed to say enough if this is how you act on the street than you must send your kids to a yeshiva/hebrew academy that reflects YOUR ideals and aspirations for YOUR kids.And in my opinion this is not a lubavitcher issue or even a chassidish issue anymore. We are now dealing with are you frum or not issue. And sadly to say we are no better or more religious than the NCSY crowd or any modern orthodox community. Plus on top of that we need to stop dragging the rebbe into all this because it is a halacha or torah issue not chassid/rebbe issue anymore.

  • In adddition to comment #2

    I agree that these is a growing problem, but I can’t help but think that comment #2 made a more compelling point regarding the pot.
    Also if charity starts at home, doesn’t that mean that we have a responsibility for our own as well.
    I feel that everyone, every family these days is on a roller coaster. Some days they go up in chassidishkeit, and sometimes they go down. but they are on a track.
    Take them off and they have no chance of going up.
    It’s our fault that we can’t bring them closer. Why can’t we convince them that being tznius is for their own good.
    The fact that they are still in our mosdos proves that they still have a connection & want a connection. If this isn’t mivtzoim, I don’t know what it.
    Here’s a call to action: While they should be in our school and community, we need to explain to them and request in the nicest manner that they try to conform to our standards. at least in public. For the sake of the children. for their own sakes as well. (but that’s a whole other article).

  • Well said!

    Yasher Koach! This, unfortunately, applies to a large segment of Crown Heights too. At least in LA quite a few of these families do send their children to Yavne.

  • CH

    To #7 and #25

    The author is 100% right. Your comments are all wrong. Your all looking for a leeway, excuse of why you behave or dress the way you do. DONT TELL ME ABOUT THE CHALLENGE/STRUGGLE YOU HAVE AND CAN NOT OVERCOME! THATS YOUR PROBLEM AND EXCUSE BUT DOES NOT HAVETO BE. #7 If you are connected to the rebbe you would always wear sheitel, skirt with right length, kapote with beard and right size yarmulke. You said to keep growing, if thats the case JUST FIT IN LIKE THE OLD TIMERS AND YOU COULD STILL HAVE FUN AND BE CHASSIDISH!

  • Fed up in CH

    Thank yo so much for writing this article, I absolutely love it. You are so rite!

  • Disturb parent

    For question 19, you could have money and still be rum and support the schools, who says if you have money you have to dress the way they do.

  • moving forward

    In Los Angeles the more modern elements of Chabad are already sending their girls to Yavne not to Lubavitch. The author probably does not have any children who have gone modern as of yet. If she did, she would be singing a different tune. Those of us who have children who have become modern are trying very hard to keep our children close. Sending their children to a more modern school will only hasten their alienation from our way of life. We must examine our schooling and curriculum and make the appropriate changes so that our children understand and internalize the way of life that we want them to lead. That is the only way that we can possibly insure that the future generations will be guided by the Rebbes teachings. Building a higher ghetto walls will not work. It hasn’t worked since we left the ghetto. Only a sound education with the proper Hashkofos instilled at a very young age, will do the job. Wishing all of us a year of true enlightenment and the coming of Moshiach

  • Asher Elbaz

    I was thinking about this issue a lot lately, and thank you for raising it. I am a Baal Teshuva myself and I totally agree with everything you said, really amazing and eye opening. I wish much Hatzlocha in accomplishing goodness for all of us, may all of us find the straight path and bring Moshiach Now! Never forget our goal, all of Am Yisroel, and anything that we do which isnt Torah shouldnt be done. Everything should be Torah> including your Math Homework. If it is Leshem SHomayim, for a greater cause, to strengthen your Avoidas Hashem and that of others, you can be sure you will be living Torah all the time!

  • morah in los angelas

    as a morah in LA,i see that many of thse modern lubavitchers want at least certain chasidishe inyonim in their children’s chinuch. i feel very sorry for these parents because if they themselves don’t have the baics of tzneeus,a beard how on earth can they think their children will turn out in any way chasidish or even frum.how can they possibly teach their children yiras shmayim and kabolos ohl when they obviously are so lacking.

  • High Horse perspective

    I don’t disagree with the article in your perspective, which is to say the way YOU see thing the way You feel, and that does not mean it’s wrong, but You have NO RIGHT to judge., You disagree with the way “THOSE PEOPLE WHO CALL THEM SELVES LUBAVITCH.” live then ok,“safeguard” your kids.

    Who gave you the right to say “be rid of these people.” Live, and let Live. I got news for you I went to Oheli Torah I was a good student but got kicked out because I came late,and was judged for having a T.V. OT screwed me, and a lot of people I know up. It’snot about blaming though, but there is a big world a lot of different types of people GOOD people who just do things their way as you do your thing your way.

    Open your heart, and mind a bit whether your right or wrong live let live judge less love more, and maybe you will be surprised.

  • In partial Agreement

    You made many good points. However, don’t go bashing the schools. Have you read the school handbook/policies for both Bais Chaya Mushka and Cheder Menachem? They both have strict policies regarding TV, that parents must sign. TV is greatly discouraged. They won’t throw you out for having a TV, that is not the Lubavitch way. The hanhola and teachers at both mosdos do promote the high standards that you speak of and promote tznius etc.. I have have known a few families that have children in the Chassidishe Cheder here with TV’s, so don’t fool yourself. Also, many of these so called “Chabad Lite” folks do alot to support the community and have a lot of ahavas yisroel.

  • Truth vs. Excuses

    Blaming the system and Gimmel Tammuz is not the answer. Everyone who went through the system knows what the right and true way is. It may be a struggle to follow that way or there may be challenges to deal with like inconsistencies and hypocrisy… but truth is truth and excuses are excuses.

    Be honest with yourselves (this goes for every one of us). It’s okay to struggle, to grow, to fall, to triumph and even to give up at times. But the trick is not to make yourself right about it or try to start a movement that justifies your behavior. Give yourself permission to be in process but don’t try to inflict it on everyone else. It helps me to always try to respect the ways of the Rebbeim and those who built Lubavitch with mesirus nefesh and try to be part of the solution… not the problem. That perspective gives me the chayus to keep going… sometimes thriving… always growing.

  • comment

    true. and sadly where i am from, the lubavitch school hires modern lubavitch teachers cuz they have no one else to hire.i know some people explain to their kids that there is 1. lubavitch (modern) 2. chassidish.
    influence – i think a kid goes where they want to.
    but i also notice some moderns – they do care about a lot of the torah mitzvos, think they are good, dont think a short skirt is a big deal.
    well it is. why? because it is announcing for the whole world that you d0 not care what it says in the torah to cover your knees. it is a public statement.
    on a side note i hate how people go on and on about women tznius. the men are no better. how many men put in any effort to practice shmiras haenayim? they blame women because they are lazy to work on themselves.

  • Chemy

    Most of these ‘chabad lite’ families want validation and try very hard to be in your face. In Los Angeles, they have two Shula, bais menachem & SOLA. The forces behind bais menachem have gone out of their way telling the press and others that they are not chabad. SOLA has chabad lite women coming to shul on shabbos in pants. The Rabbi trims his beard and the rebbetzin has no idea what tznius means.

    You can call the author fanatic, crazy or whatever, but she has a point. If you want your kids to lead a certain lifestyle, you can’t associate with chabad lite.

  • Who are you to judge

    I’m not Lubavich and I’d like to tell you that the world watches “Lubavichers”. Everyone knows of the amazing things they do and what the Rebbe taught which was Love. People know Lubavich for being open and not judging others, for excepting others. I found Chabad in Israel and went to Machon Alte for awhile, I loved it, what I saw was people who believe in being better and helping others be better….after Alte I was advised to go to Crown Heights and what I saw there disgusted me, all of a sudden people weren’t about love and the Rebbe and acceptance, it became a race to judge and look at others flaws. The whole reason why you see people not dressing the way you deemed correct is because Chabad excepts everyone it isn’t Lakewood or some other extreme sect of Judaism that if you don’t do exactly as they do your thrown out. Chabad has the Modern, the ultra and the growing in one beautiful place spreading the Rebbe’s teachings of accepting and loving everyone. I want to tell you that if your daughter looks and see’s another “Mommy” not dressing the way you taught, then you should jump on the opportunity that G-d gave you to teach your daughter respect, you should tell her that some families do different things than we do and that’s ok for them but we do things differently. You should teach your daughter love not hate. You should focus on the good not the bad and I think that was the number one lesson the Rebbe tried to teach his Chassidim more than anything. My husband is FFB and came from an ultra orthodox community from Israel (not Chabad) and the one thing he hated the most about them was how they judged others. This is America and you do have freedom of speech but I do too and I think you should be ashamed of yourself for starting hate like this. Senseless hatred is a sin worse that anything I have ever seen because it spreads like wildfire, I found your article on FB from someone disgusted with this article and I was in turn disgusted, guess how many other non lubavichers saw this and are now disgusted I hope you feel bad for the chilul Lubavich you just spread.

  • the photo

    excuse me, do you think the women in the photo want their behinds flashing accross the page of this website!?
    this is digusting, i dont care if they are tznius, its disgusting that you put up such a picture of nice jewish women, i would be really upset if that was me in the picture. put a photo of a man in jeans and no beard or whatever

  • Schizophrenic behavior

    I saw a modern Lubavitcher with a child in OT, so he explained that though he is modern, he wants his son to have the opportunity to become chassidish, and if he gets older and wants modernity, so be it. I guess it’s sending a mixed message but it’s better than him moving to 5 towns and him losing his children’s connection all together. A friend of mine’s father went Modern Orthodox over time, and his sons as they groupm up in the moisdos became very chassidish so he went back to chassidishkeit. So I myself am confused as to whether to shelter the chassidish families or sacrifice the children of the modern families. We need mashpiim setting the standards and not blogs. I hope the schools consult mashpiim when they have these crises.

  • disgusted

    People like this…ie the author of the article and their supporters are exactly what turned me off from lubavitch. If your so worried about your kids raise them right. Have two instead of ten so you can take care of them and stop projecting your insecurities about how u raise your children on others. No matter what a child sees on the outside the retain the most from home and all you are doing is teaching ulyour children to hate other Jews. Yes the Rebbe made rules and gave sichos on this that and the other thing but it is also know that different answer were given to people askinthe same question by the Rebbe. So to the author of this article I pray for you that you will grow up and get a life.

  • It-s a brave new world

    I am sorry you are fighting the new world however the war is over and you have lost to TV, cable TV and the internet.

    Through out world history the young always wanted to be different then their parents and today it is easier then ever.
    The force for change is greater then any Rabbi’s drusha can overcome.

    Stay true to your religion but realize you can not stand in the way of change.

  • My oh My...

    Sounds to me, like someone is a little insecure … a little narrow-minded and for sure, divisive. It was my understanding that the Rebbe blessed the amount of Chasidus a person COULD preform. Perhaps it is your attitude, ALONE, that will prevent your very own children from living the dogma, that you would compel of other people’s children…I AM SORRY FOR YOU…I don’t think you fully understand the message of the Rebbe…you should read it again…perhaps in English this time!

  • Yosy R.

    Firstly, I understand the authors frustration. However, there is a reason these ‘lite lubavs’ want to send their kids to our schools. For some, it is the cost. Cheder Menachem & BCM are way cheaper than Yavneh, Ohr Eliyahu or YTE. Most however want their kids to have a proper chinuch. These parents want to have fun, but many become a lot more serious & frum as their kids get older. I do agree that this sends kids mixed messages and some may go totally off the derech, r”l.

    It should be pointed out that in LA (where I live) many, if not most, of these families are not well off financially. To those comments that claim that the schools will fall apart if their kids went elsewhere, this is simply not true.

    To those that admonish the author for being selfish or litvish, these lite linage are just as selfish. Why does the author, or anyone for that matter, need to validate or condone their lifestyle.

    Personally, I have no issue with them sending their kids to our schools. The one thing they need to do is show respect to the school. This means coming to schools dressed properly I.e. Tznius,tzitzis etc. And following school rules. They also need to understand that their kids will have classmates whose parents that will not want their kids to go to
    their homes for plateaued etc.

    Now for solutions, it’s all about resPect and ahavas yisroel.

  • Yosy R.

    Firstly, I understand the authors frustration. However, there is a reason these ‘lite lubavs’ want to send their kids to our schools. For some, it is the cost. Cheder Menachem & BCM are way cheaper than Yavneh, Ohr Eliyahu or YTE. Most however want their kids to have a proper chinuch. These parents want to have fun, but many become a lot more serious & frum as their kids get older. I do agree that this sends kids mixed messages and some may go totally off the derech, r”l.

    It should be pointed out that in LA (where I live) many, if not most, of these families are not well off financially. To those comments that claim that the schools will fall apart if their kids went elsewhere, this is simply not true.

    To those that admonish the author for being selfish or litvish, these lite linage are just as selfish. Why does the author, or anyone for that matter, need to validate or condone their lifestyle.

    Personally, I have no issue with them sending their kids to our schools. The one thing they need to do is show respect to the school. This means coming to schools dressed properly I.e. Tznius,tzitzis etc. And following school rules. They also need to understand that their kids will have classmates whose parents that will not want their kids to go to
    their homes for plateaued etc.

    Now for solutions, it’s all about resPect and ahavas yisroel.

  • Yosy R.

    Firstly, I understand the authors frustration. However, there is a reason these ‘lite lubavs’ want to send their kids to our schools. For some, it is the cost. Cheder Menachem & BCM are way cheaper than Yavneh, Ohr Eliyahu or YTE. Most however want their kids to have a proper chinuch. These parents want to have fun, but many become a lot more serious & frum as their kids get older. I do agree that this sends kids mixed messages and some may go totally off the derech, r”l.

    It should be pointed out that in LA (where I live) many, if not most, of these families are not well off financially. To those comments that claim that the schools will fall apart if their kids went elsewhere, this is simply not true.

    To those that admonish the author for being selfish or litvish, these lite linage are just as selfish. Why does the author, or anyone for that matter, need to validate or condone their lifestyle.

    Personally, I have no issue with them sending their kids to our schools. The one thing they need to do is show respect to the school. This means coming to schools dressed properly I.e. Tznius,tzitzis etc. And following school rules. They also need to understand that their kids will have classmates whose parents that will not want their kids to go to
    their homes for plateaued etc.

    Now for solutions, it’s all about resPect and ahavas yisroel.

  • .Free to be u and me

    What an arrogant, nasty piece of drek you are. With an elitist attitude like yours I wish you good luck when your kids grow up.

    And don’t blame it on everyone else.

    Grow up and parent your children. Don’t rely on a fantasy bubble life to do the job. People like you make me sick and I pray to G-d my kids aren’t friends with your kids.

  • Chabadster

    The author obviously has serious issues with their own commitment to religon, and transmitting values to their children. If they were comfortable enough with themselves, this wouldn’t even enter their minds. Throw out children of people, who know they aren’t holding by the highest levels, but want their children to someday be there?! I would ashamed to be called Frum (let alone Chasidish) if I had such values!

  • Mulleh

    It’s time for someone who really cares about Lubavitch to gather some yungeleit and bochurim and do what the old Skverrer Rebbe did many years ago:move to a self-sustained shtetl in Rockland or Orange counties.The Alter Rebbe fled deep into Russia from Napoleon’s forces of modernity and The Rebbe Rashab fled to Rostov.CH is not holier than Liadi and Lubavitch shebeLubavitch.Now it’s time for this generation to show a similar mesiras nefesh. A shtetl like New Skver-Tznius,Yiddish,no TV and following darkei hahasidus with no compromise.BTs are welcome if they agree to all the takonos of the kehillah.

  • Not Lite in Any Way, Shape or Form

    Why do they send their kids to our schools?

    It is very simple. They themselves became confused because of Gimmel Tammuz, but deep down they want to do the right thing. They also don’t want their children to turn out as they did. Therefore, since they cannot provide a proper example at home, they rely on the schools to provide it. And that is part of what a Chabad school is for.

    We should be the ones providing the example. All this op-ed does is state a problem. It has no solution other than banishment, which is hepech the Rebbe’s ratzoin. It is one thing if the kid himself is a bad influence and another if there are home issues. Plenty of kids who did tshuva on their own, and came from homes where there was no frum influence of all, went through the system in their teen years and became the strongest talmidim who went on to shlichus.

    In the end, with children seeing good role models in school, they may be the ones who bring their parents back on track. You know…veheishiv lev avois al bonim velev bonim al avoisom…

  • Great article

    Great article. Weird Picture.

    Have the Moderner move to Monsey. Have the political, modern Shluchim called Chabad, and the Chassidishe Shluchim called something else…
    Keep the Rebbe’s Schuna & Mosdos clean.

  • Stick head in the SAND for same results!

    The way to create the next generation of Chabad lite is to do exactly what their parents did, just as you are proposing – stick you head in the sand and live in a vacuum.

    Only through EDUCATION where one does not hide from the other, rather educates ones child as to why the Chassidisher way is gehoiben can we perpetuate our lifestyle. These same parents were let out of the box after yeshiva/sem and found the world to be very different then what they were led to understand. Lightning did not strike from all of the foretold evils etc

    Repeating the same process generally provides the same conclusion. Your argument is not new it is THE reason why the other communities that you so kindly quoted have a far greater percentage of ex-frum kids and we have frum-lite.

  • #12

    #12 is right i know ppl when i was in yeshiva they say they had no TVin the house and didnt go to movies but the places they went and places they went while in yeshiva and now

    me who had tv in the home and went to movies i was surprise that i acted more frum the frum Lubvitchers that where in yeshiva with me

  • 100% right

    I live in L.A. and I couldn’t agree more with the author. At least I could safely take my kids to shul now without them seeing the way the Lubavitch Lite women dress. I wish I could say the same for the schools. Yavne has a policy that the mothers who come for carpool have to cover their hair and wear a skirt, not pants. Our schools should have a policy that the mothers, when doing carpool should at least be wearing a sheitel because the tichels are definitely not covering much!!

  • turned off

    Well, This starts from the top down. The Rabbis and “community leaders” don’t act like the Rebbe would want. It all starts with leadership!!!!

  • The rest of US

    is it just me or are you worried about “US” a little too much??
    you are part of something greater then just being “US”. lubavitch is a world recognized group of jews and no matter where one goes or what customs they follow you can always recognize a “lubavitcher” no matter how much long the skirt is or how short the beard may be.
    the fact that you are using the term “US” shows just how little you really do care for such people. if you really cared you would do more then write an op-ed!!!
    go out there and make programs to teach people about what lubavitch is all about! these days there isnt alot of leadership in communities and thats part of why our own views get distorted, growing up in this day and age personally and having gone to yeshiva and semicha etc there was never a great emphasis on teaching “minhagei chabad” and what it means to be a lubavitcher in the real world.
    stop focusing on “US” and join the “WE” who are all in this fight together to make the world a better place for the next generation that we are all trying to create!!

  • I am Chabad Lite

    I agree with the author 100%. I am what you would consider “Chabad-Lite” and I used to live in Crown Heights but I knew that I was not going to upkeep the standards befitting a person living in that area so I moved. Plain and simple. You can find a million excuses for why you do not keep the appropriate standards but at the end of the day they are what they are and if you truly wanted to keep them no amount of bad leadership or anything else would affect you. I think that within the Chabad Lite people there is a lack of honesty within the people themselves which causes them to be so defensive when someone comments on their behaviour. Not to say that they are not trying their best to do what they can but do not flaunt it in front of people who are trying so hard to upkeep a higher standard and are in a neighborhood where that is what should be done.

  • Thank you for saying it!

    I’ve been literally waiting for someone to write something like this. As a Ba’alei Teshuvah, living in Crown Heights. I can’t tell you how demoralizing it is trying to go up admits a community that is on the move down.

  • AshMan

    What’s missing is leadership – tough, but loving leadership. Our communities have standards. And we must walk a fine line between discouraging bad behavior and keeping people in the fold. I suggest a step-wise approach. Pick 2 important items, like head covering and shaving. First step is to bring everyone up to basic shulchan aruch. Next step is to bring up to minhagim of bnos/klal yisroel. Last step is to emphasize our community standards.

    The Rebbe always impressed me with his darchei no’am and darchei shalom approach while adhering to the highest standards. We didn’t wake up one day in this situation, so expect it to take a couple years to work. The important part is moving forward.

  • sjs

    You are not looking at things from a moshiach perspective. If you were, you would believe that moshiach is coming today. And if moshiach is coming today, then what have you got to worry about?
    When moshiach comes, every Jew will be frum and every woman will dress tznius. But we need to bring moshiach by having ahavas Yisoel and teaching chassidus. True, being tznius can also help speed the geula but wouldn’t not looking down on your fellow Jews because they have a difficulty with that area, be more appropriate?
    If you are worried about your children, then teach them more chassidus and let them be lights.

  • RE: #49

    You’re right. It’s not AS bad as the author is talking about. It’s much worse!

  • the day you close down will be a yom tov

    there we go again with ch.info (yemach shemam!) posting everything and anything that will stir up controversy just to get him a few more hits and earn him a extra buck. GET A JOB YOU DROPOUT!

  • To # 82

    your comment makes NO sense. You are like those people who don’t vaccinate their kids and say they won’t get the disease. HOW is Moshiach supposed to come when there are so many blatent aveiros going on? Wake up and smell the coffee, we have a serious problem and hiding behind the face of Moshiach is not going to solve it.

  • shlomo

    chabad it always war! and this is result! for ex many israeli chabadniks now stop to use kashrus bagatz eda haredit! why? because some belz work as mashgiah??????????? most can eat in ch, it not enough cosher? after 3 tamuz ejn roe ve tzon mebulbal…. sad?

  • To #58

    To #58: You’re wrong, Bais Menachem goes out of their way to say that they are chabad and they’re just as frum as everyone else which is a big chillul lubavitch. The rabbi of congregation Levi Yitzchok made a rule that divorced women have to wear a sheitel. Why can’t the schools make the same rule about the way the mothers dress when they walk in to school or even sit in cars on carpool line?

  • My oh My

    #69…you are completely correct, in my opinion…the author of this piece should be ashamed!

  • fed up

    Stop looking at other peoples skirt lengths and at the tv in their home and start looking at yourself.
    If you are unhappy with the state of the klal do something about it besides moaning online.
    Get involved with the community and with the school, do positive things to encourage whatever you think is lacking. You can attract more flies with sugar then with vinegar and this article is all vinegar and is honestly nauseating in its self-righteousness.
    Btw instead of being scared of your childs questions (seriously?!?!), tell them that ppl do different things and perhaps use this as an opportune moment to teach them the mitzva of being dan lekaf zechus.

  • awacs

    59. “you should tell her that some families do different things than we do and that’s ok for them but we do things differently.”

    But, it’s *not* ok – not for them, and not for you. And, teaching your child *that* is extremely important.

  • awacs

    63. “Have two instead of ten so you can take care of them and stop projecting your insecurities about how u raise your children on others.”

    So, now, in addition to your treif values on tznius, you also want to infect us with goyish values like birth control?

    Thanks a lot.

  • My oh My


  • awacs

    63. “Yes the Rebbe made rules and gave sichos on this that and the other thing but it is also know that different answer were given to people askinthe same question by the Rebbe. ”

    When, pray tell, did the Rebbe give different answers to the two specific issues in the article (TV & Tznius)? And, to whom?

    Specifics, please.

    Unless you’re just making it up.

  • My oh My

    on Yom Kippur…at a Lubavitch minyan…I tried so desperately, to hear the words that I said…which I needed to say, and needed to hear myself say…the noise and chaos of the children, unattended and running around like savages..throwing toys, screaming, yelling, was so overwhelming awful for a day so holy…that I have to wonder, what goes on in these schools, that allows SUCH DISRESPECT, but enables one so ignorant to comment on the length of my skirt or whether I have a TV…your double standards are an insult.

  • Awesome article!

    The Rebbe welcomed everyone- but it doesn’t mean people should feel welcomed to do whatever they want! It’s our duty to the Rebbe to keep our shchuna on the highest standard possible! Moshiach Now!

  • Then don-t take my money either!

    My money is good enough for your schools, but not my kids.

  • Yehudis

    to #59 who suggests, “if your daughter looks and see’s another “Mommy” not dressing the way you taught, then you should jump on the opportunity that G-d gave you to teach your daughter respect, you should tell her that some families do different things than we do and that’s ok for them but we do things differently.”

    What are you saying?! How is transgressing halacha okay for anybody?

  • LA Lite Lubavitcher

    I don’t understand why you have difficulty expressing to your children that certain aspects of being frum can be challenging for some people, even lubavitchers, and that even though they don’t necessarily dress or act the way they should they are still our fellow brothers and sisters? Why would you prefer for them to leave and start their own school? There is the practical reality that if not for the full tuitions payments from these “Lite” lubavitchers you wouldn’t have a school. Ultimately, there are those who prefer that their children not be exposed to kids from less frum families and they enroll their kids at the Chaseedish cheder. I’m sure there are many kids from cheder that come home and impress upon their partents to improve their own ways. I really believe you are very misguided and would do well to pull your kids from OUR schools.

  • to number 4

    There is nothing wrong with being upset and wanting schools to raise standards etc. BUT this:

    “She’s right. If they go public about the way they dress what are they doing in private? More to the point, what are they NOT doing? Like properly keeping the dinim?”

    is DISGUSTING. The baal shemtov says if you see a flaw in others look in the mirror. Sorry, to be blunt but how dare you?

  • Korban Oylah

    Yes, lets start our own kehilla in the woods, and when people don’t listen to the takoness we’ll set them on FIRE!!! that will show them.

  • Bored Board Member


    As a board member at Cheder Menachem, I can assure you that many, if not most, of the Chabad Lite families do NOT pay anywhere near full tuition. The majority of the parents that pay full tuition are those you would consider ‘old school’. The chabad lite families that can afford full tuition are sending their kids to Yavneh. For those that don’t live in LA, Yavneh is a modern orthodox school.

  • ceo

    it sounds like your children have a strong enough identity in tznius themselves, to be able to say what you said that they said to you….in a respectful manner. I believe thats very important. I have heard (of course its L.H.) talking down of people who aren’t dressed tznius or are “relaxed” tznius, and it sounds very undignified for people who pride themselves in Torah to be sounding so SELF RIGHTEOUS.
    Truth be told, that usually, people who are being Self Righteous do not understand what they are doing, but it is, in fact, very undignified for a tznius person to sound like that. Kol Hakavod to you and to your children.

  • no one special

    In summation: Everyone to the right of me is too frum. Everyone to the left of me is not frum enough.

  • Happily Chabad Lite

    Us CHABAD LITE are the ones who support YOUR institutions and pay the tuition…So, careful what you wish for!

  • CD

    If the schools choose to honor the beardless lubavitchers and their untzniesdike wives because of money, what exactly do you expect. Today money is valued above the proper values and moral values. Open your eyes and see who we honor. Our children are not stopid, and they soak it up like a sponge. It is too bad.

  • CR

    Just to follow up my earlier comment;

    I have striven to keep the Rebbe’s inyanim to the best of my ability; gashmius and ruchnius. I do not always succeed but that’s life. Regardless, the counterpoint to the article is the goings on in the “Chabad Heavy” community which, frankly, is no great shakes either. To wit:

    – My kids have observed mashpiim in Cheder who respond to some student questions with insulting derision and a “No normal person would ever say that. FEH!!!” attitude. This is not the Darchei No’am approach the Rebbe would have encouraged.

    – The prevalent, severe alcohol abuse is a huge put-off. Call it being “besimcha”, “begilufim” or what-have-you, there is no excuse for so many people in the street on Simchas Torah unable to walk a straight line. My eldest son who turns Bar Mitzvah next spring went home early from Hakafos after watching things unfold, utterly disgusted.

    – Far too many students in our “best” yeshivos come out with a holier-than-thou condescension toward other communities, even within our Kreiz. I have witnessed OT students “chap di umud” and skip Tachanun on certain “Rebbishe” days that some of us have never heard of (apparently the halacha of Lo Sisgodedu is not taught). This is to say nothing of those who I witnessed commit essentially misdemeanor assault on a student who dared stick his peyos behind his ears, Brisker-style.

    – The general lack of cleanliness and neatness on display by students and adults alike is simply shameful. Spare me the lectures about keeping one’s Arba Kanfos flat; most people who do not tuck in their shirttails do so because they are lazy and nobody has ever given any appropriate mussar on the matter.

    If you want to have a Chassidishe Kreiz in which people willingly participate to the letter it will be necessary to create an environment of emes, sholom and, above all, derech eretz. At this point, I have given up hope of my children wanting to be chassidim as their more “modernish” peers are no less frum and, frankly, not nearly as insufferable. I will be purchasing one set of tefillin, not two, in the coming months.

  • Shloime

    I live in Los Angeles and send my kids to Cheder Menachem, BCM. The author would consider me old school as I don’t touch my beard, own a TV or go to movies. My wife covers her hair and wears long skirts. However, many of those the author calls ‘Chabad Lite’ (labels are against the Rebbe’s teachings as well, Ms. Author)are friends and clients of mine. Most of these couples are good people. They aren’t disillusioned because of 3 Tammuz (nice theory) and most don’t have an axe to grind. I would say that the majority of them just want to lead their lives in a manner that suits them. Some feel strongly about their kesher to chabad and the Rebbe while others are ambivalent.

    To suggest that the schools not accept their kids is a mistake. While some may send their kids to our mosdos because the tuition is less than Yavneh, others really want their kids to have a proper CHABAD chinuch.

    Ms. author, there is nothing wrong with you telling your kids that they are different than some of their classmates. You don’t know why so & so’s mommy wears a short skirt and you can tell your daughter as much. What you do need to teach your daughter is that the same torah says we need to be tznius also says that we need to have ahavas yisroel.

    My daughter at BCM is very good friends with some girls from such families. My wife & I are very clear and firm about explaining to our daughter that she needs to be proud of her tznius and not look at other people. At the same time, we teach her that all yidden need to be shown ahavas yisroel.

    As for associating with them, we require all play dates to be at our home. When I was asked by the father of my daughters friend why this was the case, my reply was that we keep to certain standards and want to ensure this. His reply was “I understand”. I did not denigrate or insult him and he told me he was appreciative of this. In fact, they made their daughters birthday party at the park as they wanted my daughter to attend.

    While I agree with the author that parents need to dress & act appropriately when coming to school, this question or request should be coming from the school. You would be surprised at how many families would adhere to such a policy. While there will always be some that test the waters, they should be politely ignored as opposed to being shunned.

  • Gezha Man


    Here in LA, many of the chabad lite are flat broke and a special gemach was created to help them.

    Remember, only moths and bugs congregate around the ‘lite’.

  • Thank you!

    “Educated BT leaving CH wrote:

    My wife and I just discussed this letter, combined with the attitudes we have experienced in CH.

    We both have Master’s Degrees, earn good parnossas, and have been frum for several years. BH we are expecting our first child.

    Within a year we are leaving CH because we don’t want our children growing up around people like this author. We are thrilled to move to a community where frumkeit isn’t used as a weapon or threat. Chabad houses need to warn against moving to CH.”

  • Eli Soble

    “When you demonize others your own spirituality has been lost” , these applicable and true words apply directly to this author and anyone who wants to get on their high horse to criticize other Jews and community members so publicly.

    Read comment #42 and think for a moment about the wisdom in their statement. Alternatively , recognize the abundant blessings in our community and the many choices we all have in surrounding ourselves with who we want when we want. Because that is the truth , in our community we can choose what issues to see and get involved in.

    A “bad apple” in a class room will ALWAYS be an issue no matter where you live even if there isn’t any TV,Internet etc. its not the bad apple that is the issue , its how you deal with it. Parenting means teaching your children how to deal with observing behavior they should not emulate. Don’t attack others for your own inability.

    It’s a despicable attitude to label others , BT , chabad lite , Modern Lubavitch , Bum etc. Using these terms or any others is dehumanizing and is extremely destructive to spiritual sensitivity. Do you think a child who see’s their parents dressing/acting the part 100% yet labeling other Jews – publicly – in this manner is getting the proper Chinuch? To me , this is worse than tznius issues. It’s division and Machlokes that have always been that which Hashem takes the most exception to. Lets try and take that to heart.

  • Blah Blah Blah

    Blah Blah Blah. Another day another article abt the sorry state of affairs in the world of Lubavitch. Nice soapbox man, but you do know there’s nothing you can do right?

  • children see children do

    well written and totally agree my children are now 3 1/2 and 1 1/2, so it’s not so hard now to teach them right from wrong and shelter them- but i know as time goes on i will have to work harder and harder…

    you mentioned in the article about agreeing to have no tv in the home when registering your child. i live in CH every parent who sends their child to OT has to sign such a from as part of the registration packet!!!
    BR urges their partents to dress appropriately when dropping off their child no tichels!!!!

    obviously people signed and break the rules and no body enforces it! if that’s what the parents do what do you expect of the children!!!

  • growup

    who cares who or what u r as long as ur a good person thats what maters who cares what label u put on yourself the first thing this community has to do is learn how to get along thats what effects our community the most there is sooo muchhh crappp in our community that people have to grow up and start acting like adults and good Jewish people and start having avas yiroel ……………………………………………………………………..

  • i am #63

    Its not about birth control…its about being able to raise your kids…next time I see a child in our community being neglected as many of them are instead of turning a blind eye, I’ll call cps!

  • Give up

    I feel the same as the OP. After years of struggling , trying to Mekarve, offerering to help the school in any & everyway…we gave up & decided that our responsibility was to our kids first.
    We took our kids out to a chassidishe cheder & Bais Yaakov.
    B”H it was the best decision we ever made & our kids now have the kind of chinuch the Rebbe wanted.

  • Sam

    Thank you very much. The problem is that we can easily fault others faster than ourselves. So I may be in the category of Lubavitch Lite but I do not see it!!

    I remember my life without TV and now i see my life with it… Whats the difference? The difference is that it makes you feel like there is no difference!

  • not educated enough

    so one thing i gather is that your parents never taught you that what you see on the outside is not as it appears on the inside.
    maybe the guy that looks like a lubavitcher is a sleeze bag and you cant trust him with your family, but the person who you call lubavitch lite is more of the ERLICHE YID.

  • TO # 103

    For those Chabad lite families that can afford to give extra, I urge you NOT TO DONATE TO CM OR BCM. If they don’t want your kids, don’t give them a penny!!!!!

  • anon

    The Rebbe would never agree to kick ANYONE out of school because of something like having a tv. He may have spoken against it – wanted the educators to take a stand against it – but to kick a child out of a frum school?! no.

    yes, the term lubavitch is used too loosely, but don’t claim that the Rebbe would have done that. people aren’t afraid to use the Rebbe as an excuse. they are afraid to take a stand for what they think is right. seperate issues. keep them that way

  • JustMe

    People like this…ie the author of the article and their supporters are exactly what turned me off from lubavitch. If your so worried about your kids raise them right. Have two instead of ten so you can take care of them and stop projecting your insecurities about how u raise your children on others. No matter what a child sees on the outside the retain the most from home and all you are doing is teaching ulyour children to hate other Jews. Yes the Rebbe made rules and gave sichos on this that and the other thing but it is also know that different answer were given to people askinthe same question by the Rebbe. So to the author of this article I pray for you that you will grow up and get a life.
    #63 said the above and I wholeheartedly agree.
    beard this tzinius that – you gotta get a life – and for those leaving CH good – don’t let the door hit you – it”ll be a better hood when the babies move on!

  • ONLY 1 inaccuracy in the article!


    in the article you write that “they were raised chabad”…

    in point of fact, nobody TRULY RAISED CHABAD ever leaves it…

    99% of people who think they were raised with authentic chabad teachings, were in fact raised in a SYSTEM that hardly IMPLEMENTS actual chabad values!!

    point worth repeating for emphasis:

    …“a SYSTEM that hardly IMPLEMENTS actual chabad values!!…”

    if it were the real thing it would NOT turn off its students!!

    the SCHOOL SYSTEM in general does not follow the teachings & principles of CHASIDUS CHABAD,
    just to list a few examples:
    1) Are teachers hired based on merit???
    2) Are all teachers shinning role models of true yiras shomayim & refined character???
    3) Are all teachers well adjusted balanced & happy people??
    4) Are teachers truly impartial in the way they view the rich kid & the poor? … the Yichus kid & the BT??
    5) Do teachers really emphasize Middos, Yiras shomayim as most important?? or does the lion share of time get dedicated to KNOWLEDGE-ACCUMULATION??

    how about the home??
    Are the parents living examples of self-regulation (AVODA) patience??
    …Shalom bayis?
    …Unconditional ahavas yisroel?
    …Valuing the deeper things in life?
    …Respecting authority even when you disagree?

    my point is, young people NEVER LEAVE “AUTHENTIC” JUDAISM… they get turned off by the LACK OF REAL JUDAISM!!

  • to # 106

    i am not lite in any way & i pay full tuition. as the bored board member said, those that can pay send their kids to “Yavneh”

  • this article is indeed very kind!!!!!!!!

    this article is indeed very kind!!!!!!!!! cause it seeks to stop TRAGEDY!!!
    1. Its true that the very fabric of authentic chasidic culture is under attack from the inside (non-committed-types) by the blending & blurring between the Committed vs the Non-committed (committed to follow the Rebbe’s clear teachings)

    the question is WHATS REALLY AT STEAK??

    answer: OUR VERY SURVIVAL!

    according to our Rebbe, many of our tragedies can be linked to LOOSING HASHEM’S PROTECTION
    via public violation of Tznius

    so allowing our children to be exposed to this plague as if its “normal & acceptable” & even somehow chabad

    this teaches our youth that you can be chabad even while violating tznius! (something the Rebbe warned & begged us about soo many times)

    the Rebbe also reminded us the great dangers R”L associated with Immodesty

    so whats at steak is not just our spiritual survival but our Physical safety & longevity as well


    To number #4- and anyone else who feels that they should withdraw and seperate themselves from the Klal
    “parents shouldn’t let their children play with those children”
    I grew up Chabad – chosid of the Rebbe and all.
    There are many very committed and serious people who have joined Chabad taken what the Rebbe said very seriously and that statement you made I take personally because no matter how tznieus and religious we are – we weren’t accepted and our children were discriminated against and not allowed to play with.
    As for all the big time supposed children of shluchim who have serious religious commitments towards frumkeit and are critical about everyone elses frumkeit: I SAY DON’T TROW ROCKS IF YOU LIVE IN GLASS HOUSES – FIX WHATS WRONG IN YOUR OWN HOMES FIRST- after all Just because you have Yechus doesn’t give you the right to bend or change the halchos when it comes to your own families and your own actions.
    Frum people don’t belong watching or sitting at sports games where the cheerleaders are displayed on 3 huge screens so that you get a better view of their assets.
    And I tell you after joining a sports group which comprimises up of mostly frum and a majority of the chabad shluchim in south florida- I was ashamed to be sitting in the stadium with them and withdrew my chidren and won’t attend another game because of the Tznius issue.
    Segregation will only lead to clicks and that alienates more and more people away from yiddishkeit.
    People are straying for a reason.
    But, if you’re going to go after people than you had better make sure that your nepotisim isn’t showing and that it includes EVERYONE. No, matter what or who you are or how great you think your Yichus is.
    The hypocrisy of a head of a school in requiring a signature stating that no television or etc exists in a students home, and the same educator child revealing without shame that they have cable is sad and desolusioning to say the least.
    While modesty and other issues need to be addressed – how can we do it seriously and fairly when Nepotisim rules within our group?????
    Even when the Rebbe was alive and functioning there were problems with and without.It’s just gotten worse. And anyone that tells you different isn’t dealing with a full deck of cards.

    When I saw corruption, I was forced to find truth on my own. I couldn’t swallow the hypocrisy.
    Barry White

  • To 103

    Ya…call out the Chabad Lite, but no mention of the theft of your building by certain Shpitz Chabad people. Now Im kinda happy it happened and when you have classes in people’s houses, ill be happy my kids are in Yavneh.



    Not because I’m too lazy to be bothered to be chabad-heavy. Not because I was turned off after gimmel tammuz. Not because I have low self esteem or emotional issues. Not because I had a difficult or abusive upbringing. Not because I have anything to prove. Not because [insert any of the many possible explanations that exist for people choosing alternate lifestyles]…

    I am chabad lite because I believe it’s a valid position. Just like the modern orthodox, I believe that in order to maintain judaism in the ever evolving world, one must adapt and incorporate secular living into a halachik lifestyle. So I have a TV, I goto college, and I might push some boundaries within minhag (shaving beard, wearing tichel vs. shaitel) but I adhere first and foremost to the jewish lifestyle that I want to continue with my children.

    You believe that in order to be a chabadnik you must look and act exactly like the chasidim did 30 years ago? I disagree. I think that today’s chassid is a much more cosmopolitan and complicated person, who has taken the world’s offerings while maintaining the essence of chabad, which is ahavas yisrael, mivtzaim, simcha, etc… I keep a loving jewish home, where I hope my children can grow into their own beautiful jewish future.

    My children feel accepted, not judged, and grow amid a happy and loving atmosphere, not a repressive and critical atmosphere that this article’s author implies. I think my interpretation of living as a chabadnik is as valid as anyone else’s, and there is noone to say it isn’t, so each of us has to make the call for ourselves and our families.

    Take it or leave it, there are many more like me. We will continue to call ourselves chabad, despite your attempts to monopolize the label, because we are proud of our background and eager to pass the same values to our children. Our day to day execution may be different, but that’s because we have adjusted to the new world.

    I know plenty of chabadniks in out of town communities who send their kids to poilishe chassidic schools, because they believe that kind of behavior, appearance and lifestyle is closer to their ideal of a lubavitcher chassid. I disagree on principle and dont want to live that life.

  • My oh My

    I agree with #63…so many children running around…not cared for…you think that your prayer alone will make them good people??? Look at the example that you set…it is not the length of my skirt that will decimate your community…this is not Europe at the turn of the century…how many of you who shun TV have computers, smart phones and other media to the outside world…you are a hypocrite!

  • agrees with the author

    I guess #42 is part of the problem. You’re just as judgmental as anyone else (including me.) You also think you’re right & everyone else is wrong…just like us. Run away & hope you find a non-judgmental community that doesn’t judge you by ANY standards.

  • morah in los angelas

    if only bais chaya mushka could make a rule about mothers coming dressed tzneus.the only excuse i can see is that our school also has families that are are not lubavitch and are what would be considered traditional.

  • Im SO tired with you!!!

    Im SO sick and tired of so many lubavitchers attitudes!!!! They think its there way or the highway! Let me explain something, i am a Ba’al Teshuva and i am proud of who i am. NO ONE knows what a person has been through to get where they are. You need to stop being so critical of others! What makes a good Jew? Follow the laws yes, but more so, do mitzvahs out of the goodness of your heart, judge others favorably, daven in your own way, and have your own faith in gd…. when people judge other people, let alone jews, it makes them want to be less religious

  • Bais Menachem

    At bais menachem (aka sharrei tefilla) we do not have these problems. Our members dress according to the rebbe teachings. SOLA could learn something from us

  • Upset Parent

    #133 – I hope you never teach my daughter. Your comment displays a lack of empathy, understanding, etc. You are part of the Chabad mess…an unqualified person with no degree or education teaching our children. Stop blaming others.

  • I-m confused

    So how does it work? If one doesn’t look or dress exactly like a typical Lubavitche person, then are they actually not welcome to live in the same neighborhoods? Is it kind of like the Lubavitche people OWN the neighborhood or something? It’s public city land, right? I know that lots of communities have populations that practice a particular lifestyle, but as far as I know none of them has the right to control another’s choices if they differ somewhat. Why can’t it be that a mix of practices exist? Lubavitche folks DO NOT OWN A CITY! If they want to own a city, then maybe they can buy property somewhere and run it as a commune or something. Otherwise, is it not a free country? Are you really being hurt by others not dressing as you do? What happened to tolerance and kindness?

  • Am I really Lubavitch Lite ?

    I would pose a question to the author as well as to the readers. Who is more lubavitch, me or you? I have a trimmed beard, a “chup” haircut, go to movies and my wife is “loose” with her tznius standards. I also regularly invite non-religious jews to my shabbos meal and to my shul, I daven with a minyan every day, go to weekly shiurim and participate in a chabad house actively (financially and physically). You have dandruff under your dirty hat an untouched beard with a wife who wears all black and dark beige stockings. You learn some chassidus before davening shabbos morning before davening at 11am and farbrenging until 4pm with your “Lubavitch” friends who are all barely employed. The last time you considered doing any real mivtzoim was when you were on merkas shlichus in Wyoming when you were 24 and single. You work on Kingston and only leave CH to get cheaper prices at the kollel store in Boro Park. You look down at the Bais Shmuel crowd with the attitude “if 770 was good enough for the Rebbe then it’s good enough for me”. So now tell me Rabbi/Rebbitzen lubavitcher, who’s more lubavitch, who’s doing more to bring about the Rebbe’s vision, me or you?? How do you really define a “Lubavitcher”???

  • Honesty is the 1st step

    #129 is the first honest comment.

    At least you’re honest. No excuses blaming gimmel tammuz, molesting teachers, hyprocritical rabbonim, thieves AKA shluchim, etc. Being honest about why u live your lifestyle is the first step toward a real dialogue. Unfortunately, history has proven you 100% wrong. Mendelsohn, while being personally religious, made the same argument for haskala, and all his grandchildren intermarried. The reform in germany said basically the same thing, and nothing is left of them. After WW2, the conservative movement said that the only way to keep Judaism alive it to bend certain rules (driving on Shabbos, mechitza) and this will keep the “core” of Judaism thriving. They were wrong, and the numbers prove it.

    I’m not G-d forbid saying that your kids will intermarry. But if u want your children to be chassidim, you better change your outlook, and more important your actions and your social circle. A very intelligent chossid in LA told me that sending your kids to Yavneh is not an educational choice, it’s a lifestyle choice. And that lifestyle will not bring forth the next generation of chassidim. It’s your life, and B”H you’re on the path of honesty. Be honest all the way, and decide how u want your children to live and grow up.

  • whom are u kidding

    #136, B“H u must come to shul and look in your siddur the entire time. I was one shabbos at ST and was shocked by the dress of the men and women. Maybe half the men were wearing tzizis, and women coming to shul without feet covering?
    U call this ”dress according to the rebbe teachings”?
    Sorry, the Rebbe says something totally else.

  • #140! You are NOT Chabad Lite!

    You actually sound like the perfect NCSY Madrich! Chabad, or representative of what the Rebbe wants, you are not. Don’t do it in the name of Chabad!

  • iF

    No matter how well you teach your children, no matter what moral and ethical upbringing you give them- YOU CAN ONLY TRY and SET A GOOD EXAMPLE,
    Your kids will make their own descisions and way, in this world.
    You can try to offer them the keys to a being a mentch and doing what is right but, untimately they will be responsible for the choices they make.
    As long as your child is a mentsch and G-d fearing thank G-d.
    Today to have that its a miracle.
    Being a religious Jew has become open to interpitation.
    Do your or I have a right to judge someone else?
    Are you or I in charge of listening to everyones list of deeds at the end of the day ?
    Thats G-ds job, not ours.
    You have to live your life as a real, honest, true and good person. Love G-d, respect others, and do no harm.
    If people were more interested in watching their own words and actions instead of running to call or email etc a comment on what is going on with someone elses life, maybe the world we live in would be less stressed and more pleasant
    .As it is people are so quick to comment and spread information about others, they do it without giving a thought to whom it hurts or if it hurts- That doesn’t matter.
    Community is a place that is made of many types of people.
    We come together to make up a whole.We need to repect one another no matter where we are holding in yiddishkeit.

  • who has the first idea to actually bring

    ….about change~~!
    i have question,,,i def agree with your brilliant to the point article, i am living in ch and struggle to find inspiration because so many of our neighbors are so oblivious to the way they dress themselves ,,,they have reached the point …everything is ok….coz no one is going to say anything anyway….tv has clearly influenced and desensitized them into feeling out of the fashion and needs to “fit” in with that world…we ARE different and its sad they dont feel proud enough of who we truly are to feel like a princess and not have to feel so cheap as not have a little personal dignity and dress with respect

    firstly 1)
    we do have the obligation of ve’ahavta le’raiacha kamocha…we must love each of ours like our own…meaning to me in simple terms i f i see someone dressed worse then a reg non jew ,,, provocative everything uncovered practicly,..if i am with my husband dont i as a reg married woman have the right to protect my husband and say something to her…i do have the right the problem is, its not just one person i can turn to,,,its a big percentage of people….and the worst part is when my husband comes over to me and saia,,,“darling why dont you start wearing a mini skirt,,,coz its ok i guess if that rabbis daughter looks like that…why cant you!” am i fighting this battle alone!!!!!

    second 2) this articel is graet but trust me the people you want reading this article does not go on this website so it does not help to vent here…although it gives us a place to vent….

    lastly…i was in a store yesterday and was really shocked a frum girl from a very respectful frum family not wearing a sheitel or tichel and is married only a baseball cap with her hair in a pony at the back all out and a mini skirt only covering her behind with leggings…i was really sad to see that it first enraged me then i thought to myself,,,what could have brought her down to such a low level that she has basicly left her skirt at home along with her dignity and self worth i felt like telling her something it was really really wrong,,,

    we all need inspiration from all this…but by us all writing its nice n all but what can we actually DO about it to help things change there needs to be a major change in this community we need to stop running out of CH to find a great SHLICHUS and start working within our community we all need to strengthen each other….the ones that need to be braught back with znius etc and with many other issues that im sure everyone has something to grow in,,,we are all far from perfect in some way or another we all have our journey to go on,,,

    no one is perfect lets just start with one good article that actually brings change in our community not just blogs taht get us no where.

    Whos up for the first smart idea that will encourage everyone to come so we can all grow and can relate to everyone!!!

    many thanks

  • The Truth

    The #1 group of people that fit the category of “calling themselves Lubavitch but are really far from it” are THOSE WHO ALL THEY KNOW TO DO IS TO SING YECHI and nothing else, no maamorim, no sichos no mivtzoyim, nothing.


    It is the “Yossi Jacbsons” who bare the responsibility for this… they are the ones who provide legitimacy/validation for this type of lifestyle. They should be the ones held accountable!

  • Lost World..Lost Hope..Lost?????

    All I can say is you are all LOST…

    Remember the Story about the little boy who did not know how to read and in Shul he clucked like a chicken..his prayers affected G d more than any others.

    To claim one is “perfect”, or “more righteous”, better or stronger than another what do you call that?? Arrogance? Do you really care about the one who does not measure up to YOUR standards? I think not..You have the audacity to quote the Rebbe about conforming to the community. Of course the Rebbe would of been elated if all the “Jews”..“Lubavitchers” would dress the proper way, speak the proper words, teach the children the way of Torah…Guess what?? the Rebbe did not judge, he did not send away the people who had trouble in their hearts and souls..he took them under his wing even more, he took them closer …How do you get a person to open themselves, to trust you, to want to be better??? You love them unconditionally, you open your eyes and see we are not all the same..we do what we can, and then we do better..I am quite certain that everyone who wrote here has a secret in their heart..a goal to strive for..that is the difference between chabad and chabad lite..The open and the shut….G d Bless All of US

  • ..

    how many of u actually sat down with the Rebbe and had tea?? how many of u actually know the Rebbe to know what he wanted or what he continues to want? the Rebbe taught all of us to do what’s right by loving each and every one of us.
    i think if the Rebbe were here, this would never be up for discussion bc the Rebbe loved each and every one of us so much that every person wanted to be the best he/she could be in torah and mitzvos. and if u felt lost, the Rebbe could guide u.but he’s not here physically, and it’s hard. it’s hard to keep our eye on the goal.
    right now i feel like everyone is struggling (whether we realize it or not) to just be the best jew we can be..so some people think things are important while other people dont.
    not agreeing with the people that disregard a lot of the laws and say its ok, because its not. but at the end of the day, they feel that connection to chabad bc they still have that connection to the Rebbe. and to walk around saying ur not doing what the Rebbe wants, i feel like that’s between the person and his connection to his Rebbe..we can only try and spread the love like the Rebbe did and hope that our fellow jews will see, yes it is hard to wear a sheital but try..and yeh it’s hard to find tznius clothes, but show ur children what it means to be a true bas yisroel.
    the fact is, no matter where u go, even the jew who completely disregards that he’s frum, is proud to be chabad! and the Rebbe gave us that. so yes, while i agree that more and more of them are filling the streets and keeping less and less of the laws, i dont think we should ask them to take away their title..i do think that we should make friends with them..tell the girls mother, the one that ur afraid to send ur daughter to play with bc ur worried about kashrus, that u would love to have them for shabbos and just remind them about how it used to be when the Rebbe was physically with us. its a slow process and i cant promise results, but i know a lot of these pple and even if physically they dont play the same role, spiritually, they are so connected and so proud to be chabad..something i wish on my children everyday.

  • Lost World..Lost Hope..Lost?????

    Slander will really do you in…not a good thing to play with..what is wrong with you people. It truly is about “AHAVAS YISROEL”

  • to 129

    No you don’t have to look like a chasid 30 years ago, however a lubavitcher by definition is a chasid. A chasid is one that observes Torah B’hidur. That means yes to the shaitel, yes to the beard and yes to anything that is Halacha for an authentic lubavitcher.

  • Disgusted

    You people sicken me. How DARE you say that someone with “Chabad-Lite” parents won’t turn out frum?!? I happen to know quite a few people who have parents that aren’t so careful on tznius, and have a television in their home… Etc. And guess what? They turned out just fine! And what about all those who’s parents are top-notch Lubavs? They’re walking down Kingston Ave. in their mini skirts (if not pants) and their sleeveless open neck tee shirt. Now I know I’m not speaking for everyone. Obviously there are always those who follow in their parents footsteps. But children aren’t made with cookie cutters. There is no guarantee that kids will grow up and live by the same standards as their parents. None at all. Another thing. Since when does “not tznius” mean “eats chaluv akum” ??? Are you people SERIOUS?!?! I swear the level of assumption and all you judgemental people in this community is so bizarre…. “Oh look, I see her knees. She’s probably on her way to McDonalds…” Really??? I don’t understand. It seriously makes no sense to me at all…

  • Not Lite in Any Way

    They aren’t disillusioned because of 3 Tammuz (nice theory)

    I never knew of more than a very small handful of Chabad Lite non-BT families in CH before 3T. Now, they are slowly becoming the majority, especially when you add in the not-OTD but not Chassidish teen component.

    As for the ‘lite’ crowd paying the way for the chassidim – that is chutzpah. Some of the lite crowd has inherited money from their very Chassidish post-WW2 refugee parents who worked their tucheses off and made money the old-fashioned way – with hard work and thrift. Some of the lite crowd have indeed expanded the family business – others are living from the till as they start all kinds of speculative ventures with money from Tatty or Zayde and use the family firm’s good name to cover their losses. Another part of that group tends to spend money they don’t have – the SUV is leased, the diamond ring is paid for with a maxed-out card, the donations are very public but often materialize very slowly etc (there are non-lite who live this way as well).

    The few ‘lite’ success stories tend to like publicity, and they overshadow the quiet pnimiusdige Chassidishe businessmen, who, along with outside donors, are still the bulk of the real gvirim that support the moisdos.

  • responses


    I respect you because you respect us. It’s not that we are judgmental, it’s just we’re trying to raise our children al taharas hakodesh yet there are hundreds of nisyonos, and the lack of yiras shomayim in the community by some is the last straw for some parents to lose the battle for chinuch of their children.

    In regards to the crybabies saying only our money is kosher blah blah blah, our mosdos need more money because of you guys who make it impossible to be mechanech the children so we need to spend 50% more resources on the children BECAUSE OF YOU guys!

    I’m not pointing fingers on the Chabad lite, just the ones with attitude.

  • Mulleh

    What about a simple thing called yiras shomayim? What about iskafyeh?What about subduing your yetzer hora?The Rebbe was hardly a one dimesional,ahavas Yisroel only Tzadik . He was demanding of himself and others.Anyone who attended a farbrengen saw the combination of ahavah and yirah.The yiras shomayim that was palpable in the air was overwhelming.Is this not true?Is Lubavitch the acceptance of all manners of irreligiosity at all costs?If you believe that then you never touched the “klyamke” of Lubavitz.I’m sorry if this makes people feel uncomfortable,but so be it.

  • #140 LOL

    To #140
    You’re too funny. I didn’t know that dandruff & wearing stockings disqualified anyone from being a chossid.
    Hey, you can’t call yourself a pilot if you don’t fly a plane, so go ahead & by all means learn , go to movies etc but please don’t call yourself a chassid.
    A chassid has bittul & since you pretty much want to have your cake & eat it, even a clean scalp won’t make you one.

  • anonymous

    How embarrassing for these women that their tushes are the front picture of this public article

  • CH member

    I had an idea that A Chabad kehilla should be established in williamsburg so the children can be raised al taharas hakodesh. The children can commute to Oholei Torah and Beis Rivkah for school and then go back to a community of yorei shomayim to learn how to look and act like a Jew. Maybe even one day, it can grow large enough to have its own schools like monsey Chabad. No sarcasm intended, I’m talking serious. Any thoughts?

  • serious suggestion

    i would love for the community mashpiim to make their view on this issue known, and let the chips fall where they may. perhaps chabad.info could interview 3 or 4 recognized mashpiim, and let’s find out what the proper hashkofa towards “Chabad Lite” is supposed to be.

  • correction

    momma mia is a VERY goyish expression, referring to “Mary”.

    steak is something you eat.

  • Love a little!

    You guys are so odd… It’s amazing.
    There’s no education system, no education for the kids and none for the parents on how to raise children. I spent 18 years in chabad schools and never once had a teacher with a High School Diploma…
    Again, be positive, love these kids cause you messed them up so bad it takes the haters of your community to help them.
    You are the cause of all of this, and while I wish you’d lose your religion, you won’t. So here’s an idea… FIX YOURSELF. Go get an education, therapist, add normal structure to the schools…
    I know and talk to kids every day in chabad schools who are being beaten and molested by teachers who are still teaching. (I can’t say their names cause this won’t get posted if I do…) But yeah. WOW!
    EDUCATION! You don’t have it. You try to beat religion into these kids, and all they see is dirty smelly nasty drunks. The new generation are the people making these sites to spread good news; the people forming organizations to imprison all the abusers that work in your systems; the kids who realize that College is important in order to have a normal life; the people that focus on love, name their shuls ahavas yisroel; the people who try and help these kids… I happen to know a lot of them…
    Your ignorance, and attempt to keep the kids ignorant will not work. Take a step back, get some real education, realize you don’t have all the answers (almost none in my opinion) and then you can help the youth. But it takes a professional, like me, like some people on this thread who went to school for six years to get a masters degree, studying every day the subtleties that are involved in helping children…

  • Teach your children well

    A person has a right to call themselves whatever they want. The author of this Op-ed is in the wrong to tell people what they are and what they are not.

    It’s very possible the author’s children will grow up to be one of those “lubavitch light” people. good luck raising your children. stop expecting everyone else to be an example for your kids it’s not realistic. By the way, maybe you have no TV at home but apparently you have a computer with internet access… That’s allot worse IMHO. Maybe yeshivas should stop accepting kids who come from a family with a PC and internet access? or even a radio! where will this end?!

    I would like to see, all jews being accepted as they are without question, so long as they don’t pose harm to themselves or anyone else. Think about it… you can accept someone without agreeing with them and you should also treat them with respect (look up the definition of the word respect). Let’s all be civil! I don’t think telling a yeshiva to kick someone’s kids out because they have a TV is very accepting… history will probably show kids raised in such an unaccepting environment go off the derech… Teach your children to love and respect his fellow Jew. This is really all that matters in the end. As hillel said… everything else is just commentary.

  • Observant Jew

    Here is a simple guide to reading these comments to know who is for and against the author’s opinion:

    If you write an articulate, coherent sentence, use punctuation and have logic drive your thought process, then you are against.

    If you USE UPPERCASE LETTERS TO MAKE YOUR POINT, andstringyourwordsandparagraphstogether so that even Chrome’s spellcheck can’t make it out, and mispel haf the wurds, then you are likely for.

    So interesting…

  • Mrs. G

    My kids go to Bnos Menachem school and I DO sign a contract that we don’t have television at home, the internet is being supervised, etc… We also have policy for the mothers. We are not allowed to leave the house with tichels. SHAITELS ONLY. THe skirts have to be long enough, no denim skirts what so ever. (Yes the mothers as well).

  • My oh My


  • Fry and happy

    I was born and raised in Crown Heights. I got simicha. I fried out and live no where near the “real” lubavitchers. Reading this article reinforces my decision. Thank g-d I an not caught up in this shtus any more.

  • Since YOU have the issue...

    Since YOU have the issue, why don’t YOU and your like separate and make YOUR own school? Why don’t YOU move and create your own community? After all, it is YOU who has the issue!

    Instead, you tell others what THEY should do – THAT my friend is a big chutzpah.

  • when teachers dont dress properly tznius

    we need more action about this NOW!
    Also, you write:“Now, what happens when your daughter comes home from school wondering why her friend doesn’t dress the way her teacher taught?”
    Unfortunately, my daughter has come home many times and told me:“my teacher wears tight pencil skirts that dont always cover her knees, why can’t I?” or my friends teacher wears tight this, or shorter that…
    I tell her that the Hashem/Torah/halacha decides what we wear and unfortunately some teachers do NOT do what they are supposed to. But WHY, WHY, WHY does my child need to see these things from the very person I thought was her teacher. Teach, as in teaching one what or how to do something!

  • KN

    It’s the attitudes of people like the author of this article (and the majority of the commentators) that make me question whether I even want to be considered Lubavitch anymore. It’s the reason I hate coming to Crown Heights.

    Your anger, (which the Alter Rebbe called “avoda zara”,) at and disgust with those of us who don’t fit inside the box that you call “Lubavitch” is palpable — and don’t think we don’t feel it. We do; your anger, hatred and judgment is precisely what pushes so many of us away.

    And do us all a favor and stop lying to yourselves about the “original” Lubavitch community being so incredible. You think a sheitel and a beard are what make a person a mench? Go out into the world, once in a while. Meet people from other communities. There are wonderful people out there who have better middos and more chein than your bearded\sheiteled “Lubavitchers” will EVER have.

  • Learn something

    To 129 Wearing a tichel according to the rebbe is against HALACHA not a choice within Halacha



  • its funny

    i grew up chabad-ish and have now become fully chabad..i used to hang out with the “fried out” kids and this one girl in particular who is VERY fry used to always tell me she would never marry outside of lubavitch but what she really means is she wants to marry someone like her-who doesn’t care about tznious, doesn’t keep cholov yisroel, goes out to bars..etc. so basically shes looking for a guy who grew up lubav and is fried out now. is she lubavitch? i dont think so…i used to think something deep down has obviously affected her to stay connected but ive come to realize that she just thinks other people like her are the coolest people out there so she has to have it. i dont know why im rambling but now im just super confused



  • yikes

    so i live in ch (single working girl, family is from another state) and i went to a meal at a familys house in ch. all i have to say is I COULD NOT EAT THEIR FOOD. the wife answered the door in a low top and mini dress and the husband barely had any beard.
    we start getting the food ready and the wife was craking jokes about her love for ouD food..but i wasn’t so amused
    THEN behold a knock on the door and i thot oh thank Gd a frum person will come but no.. another “lubavitch” couple come in and the wife WAS CHEWING GUM!! it was friday night! helloooo you can’t carry! and i know where they live–on the other side of CH! i was pretty traumitized and HAD TO EAT the food because if elt like it would be more embarassing for them and i know that’s not right.
    i am NOT trying to critisize these people i was just VERY SHOCKED and wish i had some type of warning..obviously I WILL NEVER BE GOING THERE AGAIN..but i guess i made the impression i was comfortable because they did invite me back..

  • Wtvr, attitude!!!!/

    Blame=shame but like everything in the world this is only when in the right perspective which in this case means, don’t go blaming the system and everything/everyone else for you being the way you are, like the rebbe told us so many times, and as we know the many stories where the rebbe pointed out that “eiyn hakodoish boruch hu Bo betrunia Im habrios” (free translation) g-d doesn’t give someone a challenge he can’t overcome, so now before you go blaming anyone look in the mirror and ask yourself why am I dressing not Tzniusdik today, is it so that I can show the world that my teachers/parents messed up on me, (“they didn’t get me” like we teens like to say) or your gonna realize the real message you are giving off which is that I’m a lowlife degenarate unappreciative person and I am doing it to spit my parents in the face, now if you do that and still walk around I what you were thinking of wearing then what we can rightfully tell you, (which is your own thinking) that you are a sick human being.

    Now if everyone would instead of blaming someone or something, take their time and add in a good deed or good habit then we would all be in good shape.

  • practical suggestion

    all the shuls that allow non tznius womwn to daven there, should lose their nitzigim representation.

  • Concerned Citizin

    It’s so funny that you are so concerned about the sin of watching TV, and here you are unconcerned about a bigger avaira: LOSHON HARAH!

    As a former student of the school that you have now put down, degraded, and basically have turned into a mockery of Education, I think a few things need to be clarified.

    I come from a family that is not lubavitch, I myself am not lubavitch, and my husband is not lubavitch, we don’t live in the community. At one point I really enjoyed being your “so-called Chosid”, but you know what changed my mind? People like the author who decided that only those born from the elite, and act and talk like the elite, belong to the exclusive group.

    Funny enough, the school when it was started was intended to not only include the lubavitchers, but to also include the non religious girls and try and educate them to the right way (their way of course) It seems like the author has totally missed the boat on what that particular school stands for, not the elitist ideology but a place that all people will feel warm, welcome, and eventually move back towards the light.
    Now this author wants to take a school, that was originally a SHLICHUS SCHOOL, and turn it into a Crown Hieghts school, Do me a favor author, and go back to the protective shield of your little box, and away from an out of town Yeshiva, where the goal does not match yours.

    Further more, you state that shluchim open their own school and then send their children out. When on my quest to discover who I was (I have been exclusively to Chabad schools my entire life) I worked for Shluchim for a few years, and this is what was the final nail in the coffin that turned me off. The shluchim may send their kids at an older age to a Lubavitch school, but as young children they keep them next to them, sending them to schools where they are surrounded by non-observant Jews. I myself a teacher there, was shocked to see snack sharing between the two, and yes the shliach’s child was now eating non-Kosher, which has a huge effect on tbese childnren a lot more than a little untznius would.But yet the author would encourage such schools, and allow frum yiddishe children to be exposed to non-Kosher, coarse language and horrible movies that no child should watch.

    Shame on you author for your Loshon Hara as well as your determination to create a furhter problem by stating your elites attitude. I believe that you really have to look long and hard and do Teshuva for what you have written.

  • to #137

    really? i dont have a degree? i have a higher degree than you. Im a Pediatric Occupational Therapist and before that i taught. more so im only in my early 20s? what do you do? collect food stamps and sit on ur butt all day?

  • 175, don-t be scared

    175. Don’t be scared. You do your best, raise your kids well, and keep good company, and daaven for help. You don’t have to change the world all at once, but you do have to do your part.

  • new idea..

    i think ch should have a meeting..THE ENTIRE CH..encourage all chassidish/not chassidish/lite/etc. to come and give their opinion on what/how they are struggeling and what can help them. This sounds ridiculous but im serious. NO ATTATCKING each other, just an open discussion. I know people may have problems w/ this because they don’t want their names/faces/opinions exposed. But I really truly think we are seeing a major problem and bad turning point in Lubavitch right now and need something like this. I’m not the most “chassidish” person out and there are true issues I have so I would totally be down.

  • We are a generation of Tinnok Shenishba

    Coming from someone who was raised Chabad, went completely off the derech as a young teen, –and then turned around and came back completely by my late teens, –and is now a mother of Oholei Torah boys– I’ve tasted “both sides”– and I can say I very much agree with this article, that there is a real problem, — with no easy solution…

    What I would advise is that each individual needs to increase in strengthening their own family with chassidishkeit as much as possible within their home and obviously to try to protect their children from negative influences/bad-influence friends etc.

    And it is also very important that each family needs to realize, and truly view themselves as SHLUCHIM, and view their home as a CHABAD HOUSE (and tell this to their children), where-ever they live, regardless of whether they live in a “frum” community in crown heights or l.a. or elsewhere– we need to explain to our children (the same way “shluchim” have to explain to their children), that there are yidden who need more encouragement etc. that there are not-yet-such-frum-yidden, even in our own “frum” communities, –because they don’t know better (b/c they truly don’t– our entire generation is like tinnok shenishba b/c of the depths of galus by this point)–and that we have to be a shining example for them.

    Explain to your child that shlichus can be done where-ever you are — even in crown heights etc. (there is a lot of “in-reach” needed here)– and brainstorm w/ your child how your family can help reach these yidden and be a positive influence on them etc.

    Also realize– our generation is very low b/c of yiridos hadoros and b/c we’re the “very bottom”– i.e. ikvos diMoshicha– and this is why today even many yidden raised “frum” are being lost– don’t judge them– realize our whole generation are all like “tinnok shenishba” by now– talk to your child about this and about the problem and about how we can help…

    If there is a specific problem such as children talking about TV in the classroom etc.– then the school should be talked to to intervene– there should be regulations on this that are enforced– even non-Jews recognize the negative influences of TV on a child– its not just a “religious” thing– it also stunts a child’s creativity etc.- -this should be explained to the parents…

  • A Hipster Chosid

    Good Article. Behavior Code of Lubavitch Chassidism is very clear cut. People who don’t follow this code cannot be called “Lubavitcher”. Period. My friend has very appropriate name for them: “Hipster Chassidim”.

  • Time to look inside all of us!

    Truthfully, chabad never changed our education system after 3 tamuz, in the past before 3 tamuz ( sounds like some other before and after a certain point in time v’dal) we were told we should do all certain things to make the Rebbe proud, and you went to farbrengens, and rallies, so it was all real and and kept someone motivated,,,, now without the Rebbe physicaly here, chabad needs to get back to education of the beauty of chabad “way” of life and just in general jewish way of life, because most of us humans need feedback on everything,
    besides when it comes to religion which is just emunah pshuta.

    we need to start preaching hashem, halachah, and just like we don’t cling to everything exactly what moshe rabeinu said because new times new challenges, the world has changed a lot in the past 20 years. Its time we spread the rebbes message as a message, not focusing on “making the Rebbe proud” I don’t think that message is internalizing anymore. Too many machloikes of what the rebbe wanted, meant.

    Bottem line a lot of us chabad people feel that, if I don’t feel like a full chosid I can pick and choose a comfortable place in life, which is not necesaraly according to halachah,
    We don’t have the rebbe to lean on, so we need to go back to basics halachah, sad but that’s our reality now
    Tznius, beard, minyan,learning, ahavas yisroel, respect your elders,,,, all basic halachah, nothing to do with chabad,,, this includes all of chabad, not just for certain labels,,, b/c as soon as a label becomes accepted, like milk, a new label is created for a different need

    “Moshe emes VTORASAI EMES”

    If the message is true, there is no way it can be rejected

  • So called Chabad Lite

    There are so many things wrong with this article that I don’t even know where to begin.

    As a so called “Chabad Lite” (a term I have NEVER heard before), I think you need to grow up and realize that not everyone is like you. What makes you think the Lubavitch schools should catered to you as opposed to the Chabad Lite? If you don’t like that children in your schools watch TV, send your kids to a different school. If there were Modern Chabad schools, I would send my children there. But unfortunately, there are Lubavitch schools and then there are Crazy Frum Lubavitch schools (Think Bais Chaya Mushka in CH). Why can’t I keep all Lubavitch Minhagim and dress differently? Why is that you don’t think my Kashrus is up to par just because I show my knees and elbows?

    You sound like a very small minded person and don’t worry, I would not want my children playing with your kids either. Good luck to you in life. Things change. Either start changing your attitude, or you are going to become a very frustrated person.

  • To 187

    Hello, the definition of a chasid is someone who goes lefnay meshuras hadin. Hipster chasid is a contradiction in terms.

  • Mendel

    I have not put on my tefillin out of protest to god since the day mulleh chanin was elected to the crown geights community council

  • OTD / free because of you

    Interesting article and even more interesting comments. As I write this comment, I see ads (allowed by the maker of this website for income) for a goyeshe daycare. It’s the hatred, hypocrisy, and disdain of people like this author that has lead me to search for a way of life other than the one I was raised in. I am FFB, Chabad. My parents are BT (before they met each other).

    This “article” and its supporters are the reason there is a “Chabad Lite”. Lucky, they didn’t completely go OTD. Chabad and its way of life are minhag. Not halocha. Seems it gets confusing to those with their heads so far up their you-know-what’s. The halocha is v’ahavta l’rayecha kamocha not wear a black hat or a skirt this long… And speaking of skirts… What’s the difference between a loose mini skirt vs a long, below the knees tight skirt? So your long beard means you can treat people like garbage because they don’t look or think like you? If the point if covering a womans head is for tzniyos, why is a shaytl better than a tichle? The shaytl looks just like hair Nd defeats the purpose of covering ones head. The tichle, well, most cover the heaD and dont look attractive which is the purpose of covering he hair. No?

    So, while you’re on your high horse, how about ride on out into an Amish community?

  • Yaron from katzrin

    The problem you are facing is due to the fact that you are leaderless. What one must do to continue along a particular path that is interpreted to new situation of live is to have a leader or leadership to vote on the mores and morals of the movement. If there is not a leader or concol of accepted leaders then the movement must be broken up and each group must call themselves a different name if there is a disagreement who should keep the name. That is what happened, lhavdil, with Alexadar the Macadonian. After he died the generals split up his empire and the. Fought among themselves for authenticity. So your only choice is choose a leader/counsel, or split into groups with leaders who expose the way they believe the rebbe would what them to live.
    Also please don’t say that the Rebbe already wrote what and how a Basie is supposed to be, because times change and answers for then are not answers for now. Learn from G-d, who said appoint a leadership for your generation, even the docume t created by the creator needs current leaders.

  • to 185

    I think your idea is phenomenal. And in an ideal world wherein all are healthy, mature, and knowledgeable enough, it holds phenomenal potential! I would like to be there even though I’m not ANY kind of Lubavitch or formally practicing Jew! But I would be afraid of violence ensuing, actually. Sad, sad. Would that it would be possible…..please post if such a meeting is ever planned. Through the fear, I think I would take a few days off, drive from Massachusetts, and find my way to that meeting! Moshiach when?

  • To # 138-

    Good questions and thoughts. I wonder who among the crowd living there will respond. I hope you get some answers or at least see responses that indicate you have inspired some thought on the issue. Very interesting.

  • #139....

    I don’t think the author ever thought of it that way. You see, the author is looking at things as if it is HIS/HER personal communal land. He/she wants to be part of an insular group, hopefully to reach the utmost of spirituality in this way. Someone gave this person the notion that this quest can be accomplished only in an insular area with nothing dissimilar to look at. Someone gave that person the notion that anyone not perfectly dressed as assumed is THE way,should be exiled from the area. What I wonder is who among the “regular” Lubavitche community does not agree with the ideas of the article. I especially wonder if there are any “leaders” there who do not agree with the article, or parts of it. And finally, I wonder how it came to be that the author thought that ownership of the land was so solid, that one person could actually think it was o.k. to ask another to leave. Is this entitlement, fear, insecurity, meanspiritedness, ignorance, egoism, confusion, drama, anger from an unknown root, shortsightedness, desperation, frustration, lack of communication, unsocialization, or whatever else we can think of? In thinking of this list, I go with fear and confusion.

  • And yet....

    Chasidus literally means “loving kindness”. So….wwwwhat exactly is this about, I’m wondering. My chasidushe guess is “rachmoness, prayer, communication, assistance, reaching out, understanding, peace, respect” are needed. My unchasidushe guess is “fear, rivalry, disrespect, ignorance, meanness, exile, egoism, rigidity, narrowness” are in the air. “Choose and follow through” is the advice I give to myself.

  • 186-

    Yes, some t.v. can probably stunt creativity. But also, some t.v. can inspire creativity. Does it have to be an all-or-nothing situation? What would be wrong with monitoring the t.v. activity? In other words, I am saying that it’s one thing to disallow it for religious reasons (which I respect and would not argue about), and another thing to offer a generalization about t.v. for the Nonjews who choose to monitor and use that medium in a positive way. And for some JEWS who take a middle ground and watch or not, depending on their values, it’s a matter of choice. It takes all kinds in this world. I try not to judge, but sometimes I stray, too.

  • So much!

    So much judgement, so little time, so much intolerance, almost a crime; so much mishugas, so little rachmuness, so much of the ridiculous, such a pain in the tuchas!

  • CHtzer

    1. Have a bit of tolerance and respect toward other poeple and their choice of lifestyle

    2. What ever happened to Ahavas Yisroel? I thought Lubavitch meant loving every person regardless of their dress color etc

    3. The rebbe loved every single person

    4. If you want to be fanatic then it doesn’t mean that I have to

    5. Its not good to for your kids to be brought up not aware of other kind of poeple and other ways

  • Dovid F

    So I have a solution

    Not in changing peoples behavior that I will leave to the great spiritual minds and leaders of the community rather a simple way of “disengagement “ yet not total separation
    We don’t have the right to strip a Yid of any title and for sure not to call him “ois Lubavitch” .That is equivalent to Kares R”L are you really comfortable sentencing a fellow Chassid to that
    This is a painful reality that we must realize …that as much as you can teach your children at home they pick up huge amounts from their peers and are deeply influenced by that – so me telling my kids all wonderful answers about battles with Yetzer Harah only go so far.I know as I sent my kid to overnight camp and the things he came back with ..Gevald;)INNOCENCE CAN BE ROBBED
    I suggest we continue the natural progression that is anyway taking place of creating two pathways with- in each part of the educational system –
    Instead of kicking out kids out of SCHOOL –create classes in each grade that are self selected – YOU CHOOSE -you want your kids in a class full of kids whose parents adhere to these standards or the other way I think it should be the same way with bunks in camp etc….
    Yes we are one family yet each style of kids needs their own room

  • St Kilda Easter

    We have lived in the Chabad community of Melbourne for many decades. We have EXACTLY the same problems here.

    Good (3 generations plus) Chabad families behave as described above

    How many of our Chabadadniks here don’t own a TV? VERY few.

    The local video store used to be full of ‘sirtuks’ on Motzash picking out their show for tonight. (It obviously still wasn’t profitable enough for them and they have closed down. But I am sure that these people have found other outlets.)

    And teh utter shame of seeing young and old from our Shul running off of Motzash to a foorball game! This is what the rebbe wanted??

    Far too many of the women dress untzenius. (The late Rabbi Groner ztl tried to do something about it – but to no avail.)

    And the worst is that almost EVERY SINGLE family here has one or more children who have ‘freid out’.

    And you know what? The parents are no longer embarrased about this. You hear them say: “My son has freid out” in the same tone as if saying “My son has a good job”.

    I won’t name names of course, but to the many readers here who know Melbourne, just think of how many families – even shpitz – who DON”T have kids who have gone off.

    Very sad. It is long overdue for us to establish separate schools for those families who want a true chassidish upbringing for their kids.

    I live in a street surrounded by Adass families. We often discuss this and I am amazed to hear again and again that the ‘freid out’ phenonenum hardly exists there. No doubt because they do not allow TVs and will not accept outside kids whose mothers are not tzenius as well as other restrictions.

    We have to learn from those who are successful. We definitely are NOT

  • Points to ponder.....

    I know a family whose kids all were sent to frum schools, because that is where they felt the most contact and follow-through to Yidishkeit would ensue. All three kids marrieds Nonjews. I have no judgement about any of those facts, but I do think this gives us something to think about. Maybe sometimes we simply can not control. Probably we can’t control. In the end, DO we control? Do we believe that Hashem controls? Where does the judgement of others stem from, if Hashem is the source of all anyway? I’m thinking that one answer is that each of us take a look within and work on ourselves first.

  • EXILE?

    Now hear this! A Jew, whose people were sent into exile by others, wants to exile fellow Jews because they don’t do everything that person THINKS they should! So what is that religion based on? Exile? Intolerance? Is it based on the same principles as the ones belonging to the exilers of long ago? Are we so desperate about the state of the world that we are able to kick out our own, therefore thinking that the ills of the world will heal then? Or might we think that MORE tolerance and gutteh neshomas will help to heal our ills? I know what I think. What do YOU think?

  • Gevalt!

    I thought we were all Jews. I thought we were all loved. Ergo, I thought all Jews loved all other Jews. And yet, we are blogging about what skirts some of us wear, and some of us want others of us to live elsewhere. Some of us are saying,“ Go away! Your skirt is shorter than mine! Your head is less covered than mine! You bother me! You do not respect me! You should do as I do, because I run this town my way! I do not have to respect you, though, because I have the right to tell everyone who lives within 25 miles of me they have no right to live other than the way I want them to”! Gevalt, oy gevalt! I am so sad, so upset with what some of us have come to. Isn’t there a better way to be? Could we have some unbiased, compassionate, educated, heartfelt , realistic leadership here? Please?

  • Can-t we all just get along?

    By all means, Lubavitche who want a certain lifestyle , have it! However, I don’t think you have the authority to tell others they must adhere to that lifestyle on public land! Perhaps, if it is difficult for you to have peace there, you could get together with others and buy property to create an insular community that is legally binding. That way, all could live peacefully in the way they choose. If you do not want to consider that option, I think all have a right to observe as they feel. It’s not like others are burning crosses or establishing areas to plot down Christmas trees in your front lawn! But as I read some of these blogs, it feels like some people are reacting to things of that magnitude! Are we rigid? Are we frightened? Are WE feeling insulted? Well, how about THEM? Let’s consult with a tzadick or two. Or….what might the Rebbe say to this? Sorry, if I sound annoyed and sarcastic at times here. I guess I’m identifying with the “Lites”, who in this situation are being treated like the underdog.(in that they are being accused of being in the wrong or being asked to get out.)

  • kol yisrael areivim zeh l-zeh

    if a belzer boy shines his shoes, a south african g’vir shmad zich

  • didn-t the Rebbe say?

    we have to regard the world as perfectly balanced, every thought, word, and deed, has the power to tip it one way or the other

  • I,m confused.

    YOU want it YOUR way, so aren’t YOU the one wanting to force YOUR ways on THEM? How are THEY forcing their ways on YOU? Please explain.

  • My oh My

    #200 you are absolutely correct. I could not have said it better myself and agree with you wholeheartedly!

  • to 209


  • CHtzer

    #210 you are exactly the one I was trying to mimick. I was playing you, you fool. Its those with lagging inteligence who will always flag the “what happened to ahavas yisroel” banner justifying your quest for peaceful co exsistence between good and evil.

    We should have ahavas yisroel and love Mohhamad Abbas. We should make a chanucka party with ahamajiidad, we should joinn in chrismis for Jesus was also Jewish.

    We should learn from our rebbe to love everybody without discrimiation

    we should learn from Jesus to forgive even the crulest of criminals

    we should teach our children to respect all of hashem’s creations (blacks)

    we should allow our childre to explore other lifestyles so they be more open minded (like take them to the laber day parade)

    we should accept gay marriage

    we should abandon our torah

    I agree with you wholheartedly

    (du bist a shoite)

  • shoite

    #212: really? Since your spelling is so stellar, I can imagine the elite education you received. Ahavas Yisroel vs Derech Eretz… Goyim should be treated with Derech Eretz. Jews with Ahavas Yisroel. The Goyim you mention in your comment are dictators. Perhaps you’d feel more comfortable living under their rule? Perhaps follow Muslim traditions. They seem to be closer to your liking. I’ve seen children of strict families fry out and those of lenient families become more observant. Jesus didn’t invent Christmas. Christianity came hundreds of years after his death. Much in parallel as to how things are already evolving in the Mishichist world. “Blacks” as you refer to them ARE Hasuhem’s creations just ad much as you are. Look st the Ba’al Shem Tov’s teachings on how to respect all of His creations even a blade of grass. Be careful when judging others. Usually, its a reflection on ones self.

  • history never repeats itself

    Lighten up! There”ll never be a better time to enjoy Golus! There is plenty of funny money in the economy, so only the loony fringe is blaming Jewish bankers. The Mussulmen aren’t killing us and the anti-mussulmen aren’t stopping Mila and Shechita. With a minimal frum upbringing our kids are probably safe from committing goyishe crimes that get prison sentences, and people will still flatter us for having both worlds. We still stick together, so we can get business opportunities and enjoy our shtuss with people who really know how to take the fun stuff from the world around us and leave the nasties behind. NOT.

  • well said!

    Until the principals in the girls and boys schools won’t make changes nothing will change. They are the only ones that can enforce any change and help it happen. I am amazed that after seeing their former students look the way they do they can sleep at night.
    With all due respect, if they feel they are lacking the power to make and enforce change they should hand-over the reins to people who are more capable!

  • to# 211

    The author is the one who said they are forcing their ways on her, so I am responding by saying the same in the other direction. As far as respect, I think it depends how we define respect. Some define it by the dress code, some define it by the behavior towards others, some define it by what is said about others both in front of and behind another’s back, etc. I understand that coming into a shul that holds the precedent of a dress code holy is important. Now the question is, “What do we do with the breaking of this expectation?” I can see it from a few perspectives or possibilities. One: Lubavitche observers wish to daven in a place where all do so in full accordance with that way. Another: Chabad lite wish to daven there, but don’t believe that the dress code is important. Another: Lubavitche daveners feel disrespected by the others. Another: Noone has mentioned to the Chabad lite folks that they feel disrespected. Another: Has there been a discussion about this among the two groups? If not, why not? Another: Is it in fact the Lubavitche’s right to dictate how all should dress, or is the shul literally open to all Jews regardless of dress? Another: Do all pay dues? If so, were all told that this shul has a dress code consistent with the Lubavitche code? Is there an air of inclusivity or exclusivity within those walls? Bottom line, IS there a bottom line? And who decides on that either way? My suggestion: Talk. Discuss. Love each other. Find a solution both sides can live with, and thereafter tend to the sacred act of davening.

  • Again.....How?

    How are the chabad lite people forcing their way on you? Forcing? How’s that? I’m not there, so I don’t know, but I’m trying to imagine how they force (your words) you.

  • Schneur

    I guess its okay to be Chabad lite. You no longer need a beard, you can water down female modesty, you can take leniencies with modern low culture like movies nad tv. Of course Yiddish is gone, and even even Chassidic levush on weekdays is “man dekare shmeih”. None of this leaves you out of the Chabad community.
    But there still seems to be at least one major taboo – speaking about the need for a new Chabad spiritual leader.
    You can refer to him as rebbe, mashaich , Rosh Anash etc etc but Chabad needs a spiritual leader who will set guidelines both halachic and sociological.
    Okay some people will not accept the new leader. That has happened in every generation of Chabad and yet after a few years the movememnt kept on going not losing a step.
    Thsoe Chabad peopel who have a respect for true Chabad ought to defy the managers running todays Chabd and start a discussion to reinvent Chabad. I bet such a movement would quickly catch fire and within a while it would become legit to talk about the need for a spiritual guide.
    The rebbe Rav Elimelech of Lizhensk states that a group with no leader allows the SM to take over. lets make sure that does not happen here.

    Basically there is nothing wrong with having a Chabad lite element . However the difference in recent days is that this element is frankly the majority or growing to be the majority.There were always Chaside hanusach and Chaside hageza , but they did not set the tone. They knew their place in the movement. In cntemporary Chabad the serious Chabad person is the minority and fighting to retain the more authentic flavor of Chabad.
    Dor dor vedorshav , every generation has its needs. The dor shvii was about kiruv perhaps the message for the next generation is kiruv kerovim and a platform to retain Chabads members.

  • Have you?

    Have you thought about communication? Is your ability to communicate thwarted by the environment in shul? I think you might do well by opening up a dialogue, not a war.

  • Stirrer

    Just what the Rebbe wanted…inner fighting between his people! Good job lady see what you started

  • Chabad Lites Up the World

    Please, when you take your children into your new schools, take the pedophiles with you – they probably have the proper amount of facial hair, which is what really matters. If you don’t know how to talk to your children about different spiritual expression and connections then I suggest you actually study Chassidus, rather than merely dressing the part. Btw, when you create your Perfect Lubavitch Community, don’t worry about Chabad Lite. Just call yourself Lubavitch Aryan Nation and we’ll stay away.