Presented in the extended article are the responses to the comments along with letters from Rubashkin in response to; R. Mangel, Nash and Sprelin. Update: Letter From Nuchie Gross.
Va’ad HaKohol Responds To Comments
After many readers commented on the letter issued by Moshe Rubashkin in the name of the Va’ad HaKohol, we received a response from the Va’ad addressing issues raised by individual’s comments.
Presented in the extended article are the responses to the comments along with letters from Rubashkin in response to; R. Mangel, Nash and Sprelin. Update: Letter From Nuchie Gross.
Replys to comments:
Can we have some information regarding each candidate: ie. schooling, background, accomplishments, etc., current residence?
Each of the candidates is well known, highly regarded and has extensive experience as a working Rov with the Crown Heights Beis Din. The Rebbe was emphatic that all dayanim must have “shimush” – practical experience, not merely lomdus. The Beis Din would be fortunate to have any or all three these outstanding candidates serving our kehillah
Can we perhaps have also Rabbi Schwei’s name on the ballot to reconfirm that he is indeed elected as our Rav?
Important questions have been raised pertaining to Rav Schwei’s legitimacy as a Rav for several reasons:
1. He ran unopposed in the last election;
2. He had been on the private payroll of a local businessman, and hence his objectivity might be questioned;
3. His election was predicated upon his accepting Rav Segal and Rav Raitport as colleagues – which he subsequently reneged upon;
4. His joining the Beis Din has resulted in a period of unprecedented divisiveness and public discord.
Nevertheless, in the interests of Sholom Bayis, the Vaad has decided not to alter the status quo in the hope that additional Rabbonim will help nurture an atmosphere of tranquility and clear majority opinion.
What’s the difference? CH is not part of USA where information is disseminated. Obviously, we are still in “Communist Russia” where you get to vote yes or yes. Can’t you people “SEE” what our “so called Chairman” is trying to accomplish?
Sadly the above correspondent is turning the facts on their head. The last election (which predated the current Vaad) was indeed a Soviet style election with no choices and only single candidate being offered on a take it or leave it basis.
The current election is open to any and all candidates. The Vaad has issued repeated calls for nominations, and remains ready – at this late date – to add additional nominees to the current list of candidates, regardless of who or where the nomination comes from. If the writer of this letter has any candidates to suggest, we are totally receptive.
There is no need for much information. Rabbi Segal was appointed to work in the beis Din by rabbi Osdoba and with the haskama of rabbi Schwei, Rabbi Raitport is a known talmid chochom and Posek very respected not only in Lubavitch but in Boro Park and beyond. Rabbi Yitzchok Zirkind is a very brilliant talmid chochom very sharp. he is compassionate and very understanding. He knows the job of a Rov. His whole life he has dealt in halacha.
Indeed all these are true facts. All of the current candidates are tried and proven Rabbonim with genuine “shimush” per the Rebbe’s directives.
If we want a true SHALOM in the neighborhood, I think that ALL present Rabbonim be on the list as well.
Then they will have to be all equal and there can be no more fighting and perhaps peace will prevail in our Shechunah and perhaps the young generation will have something to look forward to.
Once a Mara D’Asra is elected to serve as a Rav it is an appointment for life. Rav Osdoba has been a Rav with the Rebbe’s approval for two decades. As for Rav Schwei, there are strong arguments for having him run in a legitimate election, especially as he has chosen to reject the terms on which Rav Osdoba allowed him to become a candidate in the first place. However (see above) in there interests of sholom bayis we are not changing his status quo.
Why was it that in the last elections it was stated EXPLICITLY that only if the candidate Will garner more then 50% of ELIGIBLE voters (not “actual” voters) will he win? why isn’t the same applicable now? (it was at the direct order of Rabbi Osdobo).
The last elections was not a bona fide election. At best it was a referendum since there was but a single candidate. Hence the need for approval by 50% of eligible voters. This Sunday’s election is a genuine election with three (or more) viable choices. Thus a simple majority of voters is sufficient. Anyone who chooses not to vote has no right to complain about the outcome.
Even more so, when this “askon” announces openly – (after trying to speak quietly behind the scenes, and did not help) – that if his candidate for Rov will be elected, then he will give money etc., and if not he will not give … and through this he wants to force on the entire community his opinions – there is no bigger shochad (bribe) then this!
We can only assume who wrote this disgraceful letter, and what his personal agenda might be. The fact is, this election is precisely the opposite – an honest, objectively monitored election that is open to ALL candidates. This is in marked contrast to the last election in which alternative candidates were kept off the ballot. At that time private interests, by eliminating any competition, forced the community to accept a single candidate, one who was being paid for years by private balebatim. It is interesting that it is precisely the people who engineered the last election who are now accusing the current Vaad of doing what they themselves did and are trying to do again. Kol ha-posel mumav posel.
…sounds pretty democratic, either vote for them, or don’t, in any case they win…how many are we electing? all 3? are we having 5 Rabonim? wow…
Untrue and unfair. Voters have a right to choose one, two or all three candidates. Only a candidate who has garnered 50% of more of the popular vote will be named to the Beis Din. Thus it is entirely possible that the outcome will be only one additional Dayan, two additional Dayanim or even three. The complexion of the Beis Din will be radically different depending on how the community votes. And, once again, the roster is open to additional candidates. The write is welcome to make his own nominations.
Because when the people on top, compete, fight, hate, don’t get along, automatically all those under them tend to do the same.
Precisely. Which is why the election is so important. It is worth noting that there was no fighting or hatred in the Beis Din until the last election. Rav Osdoba was a Dayan for 15 years and there was never any public discord among the Dayanim.
… like in the first elections that each candidate needed approval from other Rabbonim that he is appropriate for it ….
True. Which is why Rav Schwei needed Rav Osdoba’s approval to run for Rav in the last election. This approval was given conditionally, pending Rav Schwei’s acceptance of Rav Segal and Rav Raitport as colleagues.
At least with Rabbi Schwei’s, election it had Rabbi Osdoba’s, 100%, full approval, BEFORE the Election, for him to even be considered to be eligible to be a Candidate – Now, it has absolutely “NO ONES” Approval!
Once again, Rav Schwei received Rav Osdoba’s conditional approval, and these conditions were not honored subsequently. Hence it is moot whether Rav Schwei approves the candidates as they have already been approved by Rav Osdoba and have been rejected by Rav Schwei in abrogation of the terms of his original candidacy.
What a Chutzpah!, to step all over all 3 Elected Rabbonim of the Badatz – ignoring them and forcing an election against the will of Rabbi Heller and against the will of Rabbi Schwei and against the will of Rabbi Osdoba!
Rav Osdoba’s approval of the candidates and acceptance of them as colleagues is long-standing. Rav Heller chooses to abstain. Rav Schwei has, through his own actions, demonstrated that he does not accept the need for an existing Rav to approve candidates.
What’s wrong with the Rabbonim we have now?
Two Rabonim are insufficient for a proper Beis Din. The Shulchan Aruch requires a minimum of three and ideally five, so that a proper majority opinion can be reached where there is no unanimity.
Shouldn’t getting along with BOTH Rav Osdoba and Rav Schwei be important. One of the people running does NOT get along with Rav Schwei and has been brought to a din torah (and refused to show up!) Certain members of the election committee have also done that.
There is no precedent for a Rav to call his fellow Dayanim to a Din torah simply because he does not agree with them. And they are under no obligation to heed such a hazmana. While harmony among Dayanim is the ideal – and was the rule for 20 years prior to the last election – it is hoped that the current election will once again restore dignity and cooperation to the Beis Din as it was exemplified under Rav Osdoba, Rav Heller and Rav Marllow z”l.
The 3 candidates listed have all served as Dayanim in Dinei Torah on the BaDaTz together with one or more of the previously elected Rabbonim and have therefore been implicitly accepted as competent Rabbonim.
Absolutely, which is why the choices before the electorate are all outstanding and all 100% suited to the role of Dayan and Moro D’Asro.
The Crown Heights Anash would like to know weather the new elected Rabonim will have the same power as Rabbi Osdoba or will they be ‘third class citizens’?
If the case is that they will not have the same power as R Osdoba then it’s only fair that they be notified before hand to make sure that they still want to run even though they will remain ‘3rd class citizens’.
Every legitimately elected Rav becomes an equal with the other Rabbanim and is a Moro D’Asro in his own right.
Rabbi Schwei’s election only brought machloikes and public mudslinging to the community unparalleled in any other Bais Din in the world. (Maybe R. Osdoba had the foresight to this tragedy that the rest of us did not). By the way how can he counsel couples on Shalom bayis if he washes all the community laundry in public? At least after this election the majority will rule and if the dissenting opinion chooses not to abide let him fight with the guy he sees in the mirror.
Thank you. There are things we as the Vaad Hakohol are abstaining for stating. But, “chochom einav b’rosho.”
They have my vote. R. Raitport is poshut a gaon olam, who is kol kulo torah & avodah. Rabbi Segal has the patience and the understanding of people to make a real difference in the community.
Thank you.
All this griping is coming from the old Netzigim gang that held the executive committee until 770’s netzig was asked not participate and their junta fell apart.
The Vaad welcomes the idea of netzigim, and is hopeful that in future they will all be legitimately elected representatives of their mispalelim with no personal agendas other than to serve the community.
Letter to R. Mangel
Rabbi Mangel,
As the duly elected Vaad Hakohol of Crown Heights, and as individuals who greatly respect your enormous contributions in making the Rebbe’s Siddur accessible to the general public and your signal role in educating literally thousands of Jews in the ways of Torah, Yiddishkeit and Chassidus, we are pained and puzzled by your attaching your good name to recent partisan actions intended to de-legitimize Rav Shlomo Yehuda HaLevi Segal shlita’s role as a Dayan on the Crown Heights Beis Din, and by extension the Vaad Hakohol.
These partisan actions – by definition – do not represent the will of the majority of the Crown Heights Kehilla, or its best interests – and disrupt the long overdue attempt to restore functionality and integrity to the Crown
Heights Beis Din.
We quote a letter from Rabbi Yaakov Schwei shlita dated 5 Iyar 5752 written on Beis Din stationery to this effect:
“What is in the interests of the community is up to a majority of the community to decide … and, according to the instructions of the Rebbe, even a Rav has no right to interfere, and as I was told by Rabbi Yitzchok Hendel, no one has the authority to interfere with someone who represents the community.”
Furthermore, as you very well know, Rabbi Schwei’s position as a Rav on the Crown Heights Beis Din – assuming his election to the Beis Din was a priori legitimate – is contingent on the formal approval of Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba
shlita. Rabbi Schwei’s candidacy was approved by Rabbi Osdoba on the condition that Rabbi Shlomo Yehuda HaLevi Segal serve as a Dayan on the Beis Din. Indeed, to the extent that Rabbi Schwei’s election had any validity at all, it was dependent on his accepting Rav Raitport & Rav Segal as colleagues on the Beis Din.
Hence, to label Rav Segal as a ‘minuy chodosh’ a new appointee, and demand that he step down from his work as a Dayan is deeply troubling. Furthermore, no Rav acting alone without the consent of his colleagues on the Beis Din has any right to summon a sitting Dayan to a Din Torah regarding that Dayan’s legitimacy.
For this reason, Rav Segal is not and cannot be in the category of ‘mesarev’ (refusing to answer a summons to a Din Torah) as he has no business responding to a frivolous summons that has no halachic basis. Indeed, Rav Segal is under orders from the senior member of the Beis Din, Rav Osdoba shlita who was elected under the Rebbe and has been Moro d’Asro in Crown Heights for some 20 years, to ignore any such summonses as they are without basis in Halacha and fly in the face of the very basis on which Rav Schwei is serving as a Rav.
I further call your attention to a response signed by Rav Marlow z”l, Rav Osdoba shlita and Rav Heller shlita dated 19 Av 5748:
“…There is (in Crown Heights) an absolute need (for an elected Vaad Hakohol) as has always been the practice throughout the Jewish world…
“Regarding its parameters … (citing numerous rabbinic sources); if there are more than seven elected members then they are responsible for all the needs of the community. If there are fewer than seven, they must clarify as to what they were appointed for, or declare that they are responsible for all the community’s needs.
“It is possible (for the Vaad Hakohol) to make an amendment establishing that a general meeting be called in the event that a predetermined number (that number to be established by the Vaad) of people request such a meeting … but until such time as there is a general meeting, the decision of the Vaad Hakahal must be accepted…”
What has come to light is that that there were indeed other candidates who were to be included on the ballot, but whose names were forcibly removed as a result of pressure from third parties who wanted to guarantee the outcome of that election – an outcome that could only result from a single candidate running unopposed, which was then – and continues to be – contrary to the wishes of a majority of Crown Heights ANASH.
The other candidate who withdrew under pressure from the list was Rabbi Yitzchok Raitport shlita.
At that time you, unfortunately broke your leg twice in two different places and you told people in the community that it was a sign ‘Min Hashamayim’ not to get involved in the Beis Din. Recently, the moment you signed the letter against the Mora d’Asro of over 20 yrs, you were laid up in bed with a Roiz on your foot and were incapacitated for many days.
With regards to yourself, what disturbs us especially is not only that you allowed yourself and your good name to be used to defame a Talmid Chacham whose role in the Beis Din is not open to dispute. What troubles us is that you would affix your signature to a letter which:
1. Refers to our Moro d’Asro with utter disrespect, referring to Rav Osdoba shlita as “he” and “him”;
2. Refers to Rav Segal shlita as a “minui chodosh” when this is patently false;
3. Includes a third signatory who is from outside the community and is widely viewed as a troubled soul with no legitimacy whatsoever vis a vis anything to do with the Crown Heights Kehilla;
4. Legitimizes outright mesira by approving a civil legal action – something that is the ultimate prohibition, and guaranteed to result in a massive chilul Hashem and the utter undoing of the Rebbe’s community.
It is no secret that the Rebbe counseled you not to get involved in community Rabbonus. This is something you discussed openly. At the time, many of us were surprised by the Rebbe’s position in light of your signal contributions to Chabad-Lubavitch and your peerless record as a scholar, teacher and guide to thousands of talmidim.
Your recent actions have made clear why the Rebbe advised you to steer clear of community matters. We plead with you to follow the Rebbe’s advice and continue your heretofore unblemished record of doing what you do best.
Please note that this Vaad Hakohol, throughout its 14 month tenure, has scrupulously avoided any negative pronouncements, choosing instead to focus on positive activities, helping those in need, and shoring up the community’s infrastructure and services. It is unfortunate that a handful of individuals who are incapable of respecting the halachically mandated legitimacy of the Vaad Hakohol, are attempting to hijack the community and impose their will through secret pressure, terror tactics and outright deception. Under such circumstances we have no choice but to respond accordingly. We plead with you to distance yourself from these individuals and allow us to do our job – namely to restore the dignity and functionality of our Beis Din through legitimate and open elections. This is our job. It is why we were elected. It is what the Rebbe wants.
Yours truly,
Moshe Rubashkin
In the name of the Vaad Hakohol of Crown Heights
Response To Mr. Nash
To the Editor:
The letter by my fellow Vaad member Leibish Nash (Crown Heights Chronicle 4/7/06) is an offense to basic decency, to common sense, to the rules of law, and to Halacha especially the Halachos against motzi shem ra.
Above all it is an offense to the entire community of Crown Heights because he uses both innuendo and sheker to destroy the one democratically elected institution that, in its current incarnation, works tirelessly to improve the conditions and quality of life for the entire Jewish Community of Crown Heights without regard to politics or partisan issues.
The Vaad Hakohol, the Crown Heights Jewish Community Council, of which Mr. Nash is a board member, was democratically elected by the community to represent its best interests. It is my privilege to serve as its Chairman.
The record of my administration speaks for itself in terms of our ceaseless and successful efforts to address the needs of ANASH, especially those who because of widowhood, divorce or poverty lack the muscle and the loud voice to play the game of kol d’alim gvar,: victory to the most violent.
Indeed for the first time in its history, the Vaad Hakohol is being run as a democratic institution and therein lays its strength, its character and, above all its success. This Vaad is actually doing something. And we are doing it by simple majority vote, and we are doing it despite being saddled with some holdovers from the Vaad’s more Bolshevik past, when there was no democracy and, therefore no accountability to the one person we are accountable to: the man, woman and child on the street.
Yes, Mr. Nash is nostalgic for the good old days of smoke filled rooms and old boy politics. And when his voice is in the minority he resorts to outright lies and innuendo, such as “Two of the five rubber-stamped the deal after the fact” Of course, he mentions no names or dates, nor does he offer any evidence of any kind.
For the record, the Vaad meets almost daily. What’s more, as secretary it was Mr. Nash’s job to record the minutes of the Vaad meetings. To date he has refused to provide any of his notes or minutes. Worse yet,our effort to hire a qualified secretary to record the minutes, Mrs. S, Yunick, were thwarted by none other than Mr. Nash himself.
Is it any wonder that Mrs. Fayge Hurwitz who was the best executive director quit because of Mr. Nash. Mr. Shaya Boymelgreen quit as a Vaad member because of Mr. Nash. Joseph B. Spielman has not spoken to Mr. Nash in 8 years, etc.
Mr. Leibish Nash and Mr. Yisroel Best met and employee of the Jewish Community Council and asked that she give them something to fight Moshe Rubashkin with. Then Mr. Nash and Mr. Best called the employee to apologize for having said something that never took place at a meeting, in order to defame Moshe Rubashkin. The Council’s employee wrote an affidavit and had it notarized detailing exactly what happened in this incident. This affidavit is on record.
Mr. Nash believes that merely by saying something it becomes true – especially if it appears in print.
Mr. Nash writes; “I was under the impression that if two Yidden have a disagreement, the Torah provides for a civilized and effective means of resolution.” Except for the fact that we are not dealing here with a case of “two Yidden having a disagreement” that requires resolution. Rather, we are dealing with a board of five officials who were elected to govern the community and make decisions that effect the community by a universally accepted process called majority rule.
This is not a disagreement between “two Yidden”.
When a disgruntled minority member of a governing body is unhappy with the result of a democratic vote, this does not entitle him to go crying to a makeshift trio of Rabbonim and demand a Din Torah.
Imagine what havoc this would do to a community if every majority decision were subsequently paralyzed because the loser didn’t get his way.
To blithely claim, as Mr. Nash does, that “Halacha takes precedence over democracy” reveals his ignorance of Halacha and his flouting of democracy. And when brandishing his ignorance, illiteracy and Bolshevik mentality to bully his way doesn’t work, Leibish Nash resorts to name-calling and referring to those he disagrees with as “inexperienced newcomers.” Yes, we all know what the experienced veterans did when they held the keys to the Vaad – effectively nothing. Russia had its experienced government which, thank G-d, was replaced by inexperienced newcomers. New York once had its experienced Tammany Hall hacks. Thank G-d they were replaced by inexperienced newcomers. And now, Boruch Hashem, Crown Heights is blessed with a solid majority of inexperienced newcomers on its Vaad Hakohol to help undo all the damage and self-serving backroom deals of the old boys who were swept out of office.
So, by al means, let Mr. Nash play the perennial crybaby running to his crony Rabbonim and jury-rigging ad hoc Zablo Beis Dins for relief. Let him calls us names and hurl adjectives such as “sham” and “gross” and “rubber stamp”. Let him refer to genuine democracy and majority opinion as “manipulation”. As we say, “kol ha-posel mumav posel.” Mr. Nash can do his homework and look up what these words mean.
Finally there is some openness and clarity and blue sky in Crown Heights, and the people’s interests are finally being addressed. One cannot blame Leibish Nash for pining for the bad old days. But if he expects to bring them back he is going to have to do so by running his own slate for the next Vaad Hakohol and hoping it gains a majority.
Until such time he should act like a Mensch and play by the rules.
Sincerely,
Moshe Rubashkin
Response To Mr. Sprelin
To the Editor:
Our colleague Chanina Sperlin would have the reader believe
that he has been kept out of the loop vis a vis the Vaad HaKohol’s scheduling elections for new Rabbonim. In fact this is not the case. Mr Sperlin has been involved in the process from the very beginning, and represents the minority view on the Vaad. It goes without saying that the Vaad has an obligation to issue materials that inform and educate the voters before they go to the polls. That Mr. Sperlin would prefer to keep the voters in the dark is understandable, coming from someone who wishes to torpedo the elections and maintain the terrible status quo.
He then goes on to assert that “If any of the Rabbonim (on the Beis Din) object to a candidate, that person shouldn’t be able to run since there is a psak din from the Chasam Sopher and the Tzitz Eliezer that no new Rov can be installed in a community without the approval of the existing Rov…”
Mr, Sperlin is 100% correct in this regard, and our existing Rov, Rav Osdoba shlita, has no objection to the candidates being fielded for election, including the candidacy of Rav Schwei shlita.
The problem has been that Rav Schwei’s current position on the Beis din (for which he was allowed to run unopposed) was contingent on Rav Osdoba’s approval, per the very psak cited by Mr. Sperlin. However Rav Osdoba gave his approval only on the condition that Rav Schwei accept the presence of Rav Raitport shlita and Rav Segal shlita on the Beis Din. Unfortunately, Rav Schwei has chosen to flout this proviso, and has rejected and defamed both Rabbonim. Hence Rav Schwei’s position as Rov, based on the Chasam Sofer’s psak, is a priori null and void, and he must stand for election once again, this time in a bona fide vote against real candidates.
Mr. Sperlin then writes “I personally feel we should elect only one more Rov because the Rebbe said that a Beis Din means three Rabbonim.” Mr. Sperlin’s personal feelings are irrelevant. Further the Beis Din needs at least two more rabbonim as it now has only one legitimate Rov, namely Rav Osdoba. As for the Rebbe’s position – it has always been consistent with the Shulchan Aruch; Three Rabbonim are a minimum, not a maximum.
On a final note, Mr. Sperlin believes that Rabbonim should be nominated by “a panel of independent Rabbonim, or at least by businessmen that (sic) know something about Rabbonus.” In this he truly flies in the face of the Rebbe’s teachings that our community Rabbonim should be picked by Anash. After all, “Asei lecha Rav” is not speaking just to businessmen. We are all in this together – and our Rabbonim must serve the needs of all people not just the interests of businessmen.
Yours Truly,
Moshe Rubashkin
Rosh HaKohol
Letter From Nuchie Gross:[ch.info has confirmed that this letter is indeed form Nuchie Gross]
To: Anash of Crown Heights
From: NUCHIE Gross
Subject: The importance of voting for Dayanim/Rabbonim this Sunday
As a former member of the Vaad Hakohol during the last election and as someone who cares deeply about every member of the community, I am pleading with every eligible voter to make sure you vote on Sunday.
Once upon a time Crown Heights could boast of a peerless Beis Din comprised of Dayanim who had no political or personal agenda, and whose only concern was the well-being of every man, woman and child in our shchunah whose importance extends throughout the world
Sadly, of the three gedolim who served with such seamless integrity and had the brocho of the Rebbe, only Rav Osdoba remains — clinging steadfastly to an integrity that rises above political considerations, and serves no master but the Ribono shel Olam.
And I speak as one who suffered personally because of Rav Osdoba’s psak, but it was a psak that had no hint of corruption and no scintilla of power politics or personal gain (this is not the time to elaborate.)
Right now our community is in trouble. Our youth are confused, and more and more are going off the derech. And not just our young – entire families are adrift with nowhere to turn for guidance and help. The example being set by the current matzav in our Beis Din is causing unprecedented destruction and breakdown among our neighbors.
Sadly there are a handful of corrupt yechidim in our community who have long desired to control our Beis Din because they view it as a key to personal, political and material power. And the only way they can enjoy such power is by having their influence over Dayanim who bend to their will.
These individuals are manipulating some Rabbonim in order to derail this Sunday’s elections .
These elections offer our kehilla the potential brocho of up to three outstanding Dayanim who have vast experience and no personal agenda or interest in personal gain. Each candidate is a Rov of utmost integrity (all have already served in various functions and where called upon as needed) who can help restore to our Beis Din the shem and tiferes for which it was once justly renowned.
This election is totally consistent with the Rebbe’s goal of having “rov am” appointing the community’s Rabbonim
Our Kehilla is today blessed with a Rosh Hakohol, Moishe Rubashkin, whose every waking moment is a testament to his integrity and to his selfless concern for even (and especially) the smallest and weakest members of the Crown Heights community. While no man is perfect, surely we all recognize his unstinting acts of tzedaka and chesed. For anyone to impugn his integrity with regard to the election is to behave like Korach, except that Korach was not motivated by cynicism, greed and personal gain.
To his credit, Moishe Rubashkin has, in R. Segal, R. Raitport and R. Zirkind, assembled a slate of three outstanding, independent, experienced Rabbonim.
What’s more he has openly invited, and continues to invite, other nominees.
Those who would torpedo this election are free to list their own candidates. That they have not done so, is ample evidence of their true motives, to sow dissent and sinas chinom in order to wrest control of the Beis Din for their own underhanded and nefarious purposes.
As the Rebbe often quoted from the Slichos of Erev Rosh Hashana; “Merubim tzorchei amcha” – our community’s needs are many. These needs will only be met if an honest, diligent, capable and totally apolitical Beis Din is allowed to function without a gang of hangers-on who care only for their own kovod.
Please, please make sure you vote this Sunday.
Thank you.
Nuchi Gross
impressed
Way to go webby!
Kit up!
Stay on the leading edge of CH reporting, it’s the reason we all come here. I’m glad to see you starting new trends in CH media.
Anash
Questioning the legitimacy of Rabbi Schwei is questioning the legitimacy of the entire structure (Rabbonim – Vaad Hakahal – Vaad Hakashrus).
Does one person (M. Rubashkin) get to do what he wants? Does he have the final say?
IF there are new Rabbanim elected under Rubashkins plan, the C.H. community will fall further into disharmony and machlokes.
Hashem yishmur virachem!
Hope
To Moshe Rubashkin and members of the Vaad Hakahol,
Yashar Koach. It is great to finally have people who are fighting for the community instead of fighting for machlokes. Be strong and keep up the good work. It is the first time in many years that i have felt that there is still hope for the community of Crown Heights. We need leaders who are true leaders and are willing to perservere despite the difficulties.
Thank you for all of your hard work.
Wishing you much Brocha V’hatslacha.
Hope
PS What is the best way for people to reach you with comments, suggestions, community problems and needs?
seeking THE truth.
How can one agree with Rabbi Schwei when he gives out a letter co-signed by a person who openly wages war against the rebbe zy"a by being the keynote speaker at the circus kinnus in 770 aka. bogomilski from New Jersey.
TO DEMONSTRATE YOUR SOLIDARITY TO THE REBBE ALL SHOULD COME OUT IN MASSES AND VOTE FOR RABBIS SEGAL,ZIRKIND ETC.
ssrvkwvn
to anash no with electing new rabbonim when ther will be qustions it wont take you a month to get an answer when ther will be papers that need to be signed it can be done right away
and as far as moshe rubashkin rulling the vaad hakol i rather have him rulling and making the final descion then some person who only does it it for puplicctey but moshe rubashkin does it becuase he cares
some1 that cares
If Rabbi Zirkind takes over the Kashrus alot of Machlokes would be resolved in the community!
CH Person
Bogo from NJ is not a rov and has never sat on a din torah in his life. He is a simple shliach.
Rabbi Schwei should be imbarrased to even have him on his letterhead and sign with him.
I question if he has even Dayonis?
No agenda
This isn’t about the integrity of the 3 people running in the election. This is about 2 Rabonim that don’t get along.
Why don’t these 2 Rabonim (Rabbi Osdoba & Rabbi Schwei) go zabla and negotiate a system where each one has his domain, his responsability, etc.
The damage has already been done. Now they must clean up the mess that THEY are ultimately responsible for.
There can never be any legitimacy to anything concerning the Rabonim if they continue to fight after the elections.
A forced solution, is no solution at all.
P.S. Making Rabbi Schwei the "bad one" is equal to going against the Badatz of C.H.
He is a member and no one (even Rabbi Osdoba) does not have the authority to "disbar" him or question hos legitimacy. That is absurd….
Hashem yivarech es amoi bashalom!
Menachem Blau
Dear Moshe Rubashkin,
I have read your entire (VERY CHUTZPADIK) letter, & have a KLOTZ Kashe:
For the sake of Sholom, can you show us a document in WRITING, that the election of Rabbi Schwei was CONDITIONAL on accepting Rabbi segal and Rabbi Reitport into the Beis Din. To my knowledge, and to the knowledge of all of my friends there ISN’T such a document. As far as I know, Rabbi Osdoba (in his own handwriting), AGREED to the election of Rabbi Schwei UNCONDITIONAL (to accepting Rabbi Segal & Rabbi Reitport into th Beis Din). In the same letter, there was a REQUEST (NOT a CONDITION), to put Rabbi Segal & Rabbi Reitport as Helpers in th Beis Din.
Again: for the sake of SHOLOM, if you have proof IN WRITING, that the above was a CONDITION. please publicise it, so the record can be set straight.
However, if you CANNOT produce it (and even if you COULD produce it), I return to my earlier KLOTZ KASHE: How can you make PUBLIC MOCKERY of Rabbi Schwei, by making a PUBLIC elections, AGAINST THE WILL of Rabbi Schwei. What message are you sending to the Community? In my opinion, YOU ARE
P U B L I C L Y SPITTING ON RABBI SCHWEI !!!
Moshe! Think about it, and about what message your giving to all the residents of Crown Heights.
I (unlike others), am enclosing my real name in this letter. Also, I respect BOTH Rabbonim! I am NOT a politician,and I am writing this, because it PAINS ME TO THE CORE, to see, how you are making a PUBLIC MOCKERY out of Rabbi Schwei !!!
Moshe! DO TESHUVAH…..
BCH
Before you elect new rabbonim (and they are badly needed), you have to resolve the status of the existing ones.
1. Rabbi Osdoba – without any doubt a legitimate member of the Beis Din.
2. Rabbi Heller – has to be politely asked to either resume functioning in his elected capacity (and be involved in all matters of the kehilla) or be politely asked to resign (and one does not have to be a member of the Bada"tz in order to answer private shailos)
3. Rabbi Schwei – if Vaad Hakohol has doubts about the legitimacy of his election, they need to get that resolved through an independent Rabbinic authority or a Zablo. (But they must stop the childish "bolshevic election’ pronouncements).
The point is that neither Rabbi Heller nor Rabbi Schwei can be considered both legitimate and illegitimate as members of the Beis Din at the same time. One can’t be a little bit pregnant! <b>Only when it will be clear how many Rabbonim are currently on the Beis Din (1, 2, or 3) can meaningful elections of the new Rov/Rabbonim for the unfilled slots be conducted (with the nominating process itself guided by the current members of the Beis Din)</b>.
The current elections conducted in haste as they are will not bring the end to the current machlokes. The Schwei people will simply declare the election illegitimate vein ladovor sof.
Reb Moshe Rubashkin, the community has not had a proper Beis din since Rabbi Heller’s self-imposed de-facto resignation. We can suffer a few more months, but you should take he time to do this right.
Clarification
What is rabbi Scwei so worried about? Everyone know thats he is afraid that he will be one rabbi against 3-4 rabbonim with Shimush who have the community interest in mind.
Rabbi Schwei was told by the Rebbe NOT to be a rov and none the less hedidnt listen. I’m sure Leible Groner will produce some ksav yad once again. Leible groner should not mix him as per the rebbe’s instructions which everyone heard at a farbrengen that mazkirus must not mix in etc.
We need to strengthen the Beis Din in order that things can go forward.
Moshe you deserve tons of credit for moving things on.
Yasher Koach and to Dr.Lang and Rabbi Plotkin
ENOUGH OF THE COMUNISEM
CAN ANYONE EXPLAIN WHAT IS WRONG WITH OPEN ELECTIONS?
LET THE PEOPLE OF CROWN HEIGHTS ELECT AS MANY RABONIM AS THY SEE FIT.
LOOKS LIKE IN CROWN HEIGHTS WE HAVE A MINORITY
THAT IS MAKING ALL OF THE MACHLOIKES.
LET’S START WITH THE VAAD HAKOHOL.
WE HAVE A VAAD THAT WAS ELECTED KADAS VKADIN
BY OUR COMUINITY AND SINCE THIS VAAD IS IN OFFICE
WE SEE MORE AND BETTER FOR OUR COMMUNITY.
R’ MOSHE RUBASHKIN IS A TRUE AISH CHESED I SEE HIM
RUNNING EVERY DAY BUSY HOW TO HELP A FELOW JEW.
ON THE OTHER SIDE WE SEE A MAN FROM NEW JERSEY
AND AN UNOFICIAL UNELECTED RAV FROM CROWN HEIGHTS
MECHARCHERAI RIV.
BUT AS THE GEMORO SAY ISTRA BLAGINA KISH KISH KARYE
A PENEY IN AN EMPTY BOX MAKES A LOT OF NOISE.
JUST TELL ME WHY CROWN HEIGHTS SHOULD NOT ADD THREE
OR FIVE RABBIS TO THE BIS DIN GIVE ME ONE REASON.
LET’S ALL COME TO VOTE AND MAKE CROWN HEIGHTS
A BETTER PLACE.
DON’T LISTEN TO THIS SMALL MINORITY AS YOU CAN SEE
THY HAD TO GO OVER THE BRIDGE TO HAVE A RAV SIGN ON
THE MACHLOIKES PASHKVILLE.
SO WE ALL GO TO VOTE AND SHOW WHAT WE WANT FOR US.
HALELUHU BNEVEL
MOSHE
CHAZAK VEEMATZ
A NEVELER EINIKEL WILL PREVAILE!!!!!!
ONLY GOOD COMES FROM NEVEL.
DONT BE AFRAID OF THE BAALEI MACHLOIKES
EVERYONE IS GOING TO VOTE .
AND NEXT ELECTIONS FOR VAAD HAKOHOL YOU
MOSHE RUBASHKIN WILL GET 100% OF THE VOTES
CONTINUE WITH YOUR WORK AND HELP EVERY MEN,
WOMEN, AND CHILD IN ANY WAY YOU CAN.
THE KOHOL IS WITH YOU.
Berl
Moshe Rubashkin: Rabbi Schmuel Peasch Bogomilsky is indeed a "troubled soul"! Well put! I think if he would’nt be such Shoita he would have been something in Lubavitch today.
Moshe, from anash
Two thumbs up rabbi moshe rubashkin
Shmuly, looking for good days iy h
I am voting yes v, for all three to be rabbonym, and so shuld evrey one
Y chazan
Rav Shvei ceased to be a Rov when he gave his Haskama to the "book" "Shlita".
WHAT HE DID NOT ANSWER
he did not answer
WHY IS THERE CANDIDATS ONLY FROM ONE SIDE?
THIS IS A ONE SIDED ELECTION!!!
SHMUEL GERSHON
TYPICAL RUBASHKIN, SHOOTS HIMSELF IN THE FOOT, A COUPLE ODF DAYS BEFORE THE ELECTION HE AGAIN COMES OUT AND STIRS THE POT WITH HIS STATEMENTS QUESTIONING THE LEGITIMACY OF RABBI SCHWEI. RUBASHKIN WILL GET THE FISHERISTEN, HIS LACKEYS AND THOSE PEOPLE THAT HE BUYS TO COME OUT AND VOTE, BUT THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE WILL STAY AWAY FROM THIS HORNETS NEST OF AN ELECTION. IF HE REALLY INTENDED TO MAKE SHOLOM, HE WOULDN’T SPEW SUCH VENOM ON THE THRESHOLD OF THE ELECTION. UNFORTUNATELY, HIS IMPULSIVE AND COMPULSIVE BEHAVIOR FORCED HIM TO REVEAL WHAT TRULY MOTIVATES HIM. ANGER, RAGE, REVENGE AND HATRED TOWARDS HARAV SCHWEI. WHAT A PITY.
Devorah
Is this an indication of how Moshe Rubashkin regards and RESPECTS the results of elections?
Rabbi Shwei was duly elected BY THE PEOPLE of crown heights – NOT Rabbi Osdobo. Rabbi Osdobo ONLY decided WHO was eligible to be a candidate – and then IT WENT OVER TO THE PEOPLE for election.
How can somebody in his right mind question these result. Maybe he is not used to these kinds of practices from ‘Nevel’ in Czarist/Communist Russia – Rabbi Shwei was duly elected by the MAJORITY of ELIGIBLE (not actual) voters in Crown Heights!!!!!
This is an ENOROMOUS Chutzpo!!!! MOCKING the will of the residents of the community – BOTH with regard to the PAST elections – for Rabbi Shwei, and the so-called UPCOMING elections – totally DISREGARDING the desiers of the community. Just walk around the streets in Crown Heights and you’ll see the VAST MAJORITY of people are not comfortable with the WAY this is being handled and think that it is corrupt.
Moshiach Now!
Real Beis Din = Vaad Raboney Lubavitch
To: "seeking THE truth"
I agree with you, that we must despise all Rabbinic, who undermine the Main Kinus Hashluchim by Merkos, by making their own ad hock Kinus in 770.
However, I will never vote for the new candidates you mentioned because they are only "Puppet Candidates" who have been put up by the incumbent Rabbi Osdoba, (Against, his Equal Partner Rav) in order to give him an "automatic majority" – so that they will Rubber Stamp, whatever Rabbi Osdoba Wants – similar to what Rubashkin now has.
Rabbi Osdoba and Rubashkin are not even ashamed to admit, that during last election, they stooped so low, to allow a new election, "only if he has another 2 automatic Rubber Stamps" first!!!
What other reason can there be to make such a "condition" right before a "democratic" election and not even be ashamed to admit that he meant it as a "condition"? In Russia they did this but at least they had a bit of self respect to at least be ashamed to admit it openly (at least try to "deny" your shameful act)!
Knowing Rabbi Osdoba, rest assured, that any newly elected Rabbinic, will only have power, as long as they will "bow down" to Rabbi Osdoba’s "Pre Conditions" (So that He can continue to be a "Dan Yechidi").
I find it utterly insane, that they are not even ashamed of themselves, to label such "pre conditions" as "Democracy" (Everyone has "Equal Say" in the Beis Din, as long as I have my own NON-ELECTED "Automatic Majority" with my own "self appointed" Segal and Reitport).
Remember the Rule:
"All Rabbinic are Equal" but
"Some Rabbinic are More Equal than Others"
Rabbi Osdoba’s Contempt for the Rebbe’s Secretary Harav Yehuda Krinsky Shelita and for the Rebbe’s most prominent active Emissary, Harav Avraham Shem Tov Shelita, by issuing "Sirruvs" against them, is appalling and undermines everything the Rebbe stands for.
How can any self respecting individual vote for Candidates who are "OK" with Insulting the Rebbe’s most prominent People?
Whenever anyone runs for Public Office, he has to let everyone know where he stands on Preeminent Issues. Whenever Congress approves new Chief Justices, they debate and want to know exactly where each one stands on Very Major Issues.
Before voting for anyone new, I want to know if he will Respect the Rebbe’s Established Organizations with their Heads or will they Rubber Stamp Rabbi Osdoba’s Contempt Orders against them?
Before Voting for any new Puppet Rav, I want to know, if he will Respect the Rebbe’s Wishes and the Court Orders that 770 Belongs to Aguch and Merkos, or will they Rubber Stamp Rabbi Osdoba’s sellout to the Gabaaim, who give Rabbi Osdoba "The Rebbe’s Aliya" every Shabbos.
Before Voting for new Baaley Machlokes, I want to know, why Rubashkin failed to include any of our own, Greatest Rabbinic, who are long time, existing members from our own Vaad Raboney Lubavitch?
Obviously, Rubashkin does not regard our Rabbinic (of Vaad Raboney Lubavitch) to be Rabbinic at all, and not even eligible to Run!
As far as I am concerned, the only Rabbinic who have shown true respect for the Rebbe, is Vaad Rabboney Lubavitch. If I vote for any other Kangaroo Court, it will undoubtedly undermine the Primary and Real Beis Din of Lubavitch, since they have all Shown their contempt for us, repeatedly in the past.
If we have a totally dysfunctional Beis Din, who Fight with each other, why not have them settle it all, by a Fair and Impartial Din Torah, by Vaad Raboney Lubavitch?
That’s exactly, what Rabboney Lubavitch is for: To solve all those Rabbinical Problems which, obviously they can’t solve themselves!
Clarificatuion
Anash in America a majority still rules. In the meetings of the vaad hakohol Rubshkin, Plotkin and Lang are the majority. Suddenly its no good but when Herzog and Sperlin voted and Gross was by himself infact NEVER included in any meeting that was fine.
If you don’t like the set up in 2 years there will be elections for Vaad hakohol and you can exercise your democratic right to vote.
LOOK! The King is Not wearing any Cloths
Rubashkin,
You put up a Smoke Screen to distort the truth that there was Kaviyovhol, some kind of Pre-Condition, which determine if Rabbi Schwei can be Rav or Not.
This is a deliberate Distortion and Smoke Screen to attempt to cloud the waters, as to what really happened.
Rabbi Osdoba had universal Power at the time, when he was the only one left in the room of the Beis Din, after everyone else left the room (Rabbi Marlow Passed Away and Rabbi Heller "Walked Away").
Rabbi Osdoba knew that it doesn’t "Look Good" for him, to disallow anyone else to Join The Bais Din democratically, yet he wanted to continue to enjoy is unilateral power, to do, whatever he wants to, Unchallenged by any other Rabbinic Authority.
In order for Rabbi Osdoba to "Look Good",
Katzman, Brook and Company found a solution for him which he accepted. He will "Pull A Fast One" and in the very last moment"Sneak In A Bill" (as they often "sneak it in" in Congress) that will guarantee him an automatic Majority "Just In Case". Rabbi Schwei will not allow Rabbi Osdoba to do whatever he wants, Halachicly, Unopposed.
While I despise these 2 Baaley Machlokes, Katzman and Brook, yet I must admit that it was a Brilliant Strategy on their part to retain absolute unilateral control of the Beis Din, via 2 New Puppet Appointed Rubber Stamps, yet he Looks very Good, in the eyes of the Public that he was Kaviyochol "Fair" by allowing Rabbi Schwei to be "Democratically Elected (yet totally POWERLESS)
But they made one small Mistake:
Rabbi Osdoba’s, appointment of the 2 Rubber Stamps (then, Segal and Reitport) WAS NOT A "TNAI KOFUL"!
As a Matter of fact it was not written as "TNAI" at all, whatsoever.
This is a SMOKE SCREEN to claim it was any kind of "CONDITION" at all!
Yes it’s true that he appointed his 2 Rubber Stamps, but it was not worded AT ALL as any kind of "Condition", whatsoever.
So al we can say is:
"Nice Try", but Sorry Moshe, we will not bye any of this – – – that any kind of absolute "Condition" was made or that any new election, past or present will ever be based on Outright Corruption, of the Highest Degree, to Elect someone who has no equal power to vote differently than the incumbent.
If any newly elected official, can’t Vote his conscious, even if it differs from his fellow equal colleagues, then there is no point in making any election at all, to begin with!
Thank you Rubashkin, for "Undressing" publicly all those throughly Corrupt People in power who were involved in undermining Rabbi Schwei, not only after he was elected, but BEFORE he was elected, in a most Shameful attempt to make sure he will never, ever, have any power as a Real Rav even Before or After or even IF elected!
Shame On You, All!
Shmuel
It is clear to everyone that the upcoming elections are causing a great deal of machlokes in the community. One Rav is in opposition, the Netzigim are split, the Vaad Hakohol is split, and the community at large is bracing itself for a barrage of divisive letters and pamphlets that will appear in the Shuls this Shabbos. As a matter of fact, anyone who wishes can go into the CHJCC office and see the Rosh HaKohol himself in full crisis mode (including screaming, etc.) about the upcoming elections. Mr. Rubashkins brilliant political tactics have set the community in the midst of another machlokes, and put us all face to face with an election which by all standards is a farce. If those involved would take a step back and look objectively, they too would have to admit that the until now machlokes-ridden elections will not lead to any greater modicum of "peace" and "unity" after their taking place this Sunday. If the Rosh HaKohol had a bissel seichel or a bissel bittul he would cease forcing this derision and negativity upon the community.
Dovid
People, VOTE!!! MR has it right and unless a clear majority of the community votes, more machlokes will follow. But imagine if everyone votes– do you think anyone can discredit an election with 100% turnout? There’d be riots! If everyone votes, people will hear the voice of the community, and act accordingly.
Moshe writes Lmaan Hashalom
Dear Shmuel,
You are 100% correct.
I believe tjatt there should be additional Rabbonim added as the community is growing.
But the approach that is being taken by Moshe is wrong and will backfire.
#1. I suggest that there be a calm down period and the elections be put off till after the summer. What’s the emergency? As Moshe said several times he is doing everything L’man Hashalom. So let him take one more important step Lman Hashalom.
#2. For the sake of the kedushah of a Bais Haknesses and for the snity of all of us and especially for the sake of ALL OF OUR CHILDREN, please make sure that all the flyers, notes and campaign garbage does not get into the shuls. If they want to mail it presonally to everyones home do it, but dont poisin our children and flood the shuls with this garbage.
On anotherb topic. Moshe, what happened with the murder case of Ephrayim Klein? Everyone is quiet about it. Give us some info, infact since tghe Vaad Hakhil and the Rosh Hakhol stopped giving out the weekly newsletters, this community is not being informed of many things that took and are taking place.
A Guutin Shabbos to all. and remeber the Balabus of our Shechunah is the REBBE and nothing will stop that.
Is a Rav Above the Law ?
Rubashkin, in His most Recent Chutzpadik Letter to Harav Mangel (Where Rubashkin is once more “Mevazeh a Rav and a Dayin and a Talmid Chochom) claims that Segal is not a “Mesarev Ledin” because he claims, that:
“No Rav acting alone without the consent of his colleagues on the Beis Din has any right to summon a sitting Dayan to a Din Torah regarding that Dayan’s legitimacy.”
You are wrong Moshe!
According to Shulchan Aruch, which Rabbi Mangel knows much better than you (don’t you think?), when there are people involved who are a Nogeah Bedavar (Since Rabbi Osdoba who is a “Colleague” is knee deep in this all), he and his fellow appointees and employee, Rabbi’s, can’t be the one to be the sole “Judge, Jury, and Executioner”, on a matter which they are all the Biggest Nogeah Bedavar, regrading a Din Torah which concerns the very legitimacy of their existence as undemocratically appointed against the will of a Fully Equal, Chaver Habeis Din.
Moshe,
Without our Torah giving us this avenue of “Checks and Balances”, corruption in Beis Din’s would be a whole lot worse than it is (and it’s plenty bad already).
Here is an example of a true story which recently happened with a Real Rav who will remain nameless, to protect his Kovod:
There was once a Rav, who would answer Shaalos on “Mareh’s”, very well. He only had one “minor” weakness, that he, at times, checked (inappropriately) more than just the Mareh’s, but also the women themselves, who brought him these Shaalos (V’Dal). Of course he has since been Stopped from answering such Shaalos.
If every Rav, was “Untouchable”, even when he clearly violates Halacha, and even when his close, fellow friends, want to “protect him” and “cover up” his inappropriate behavior, there is no other choice but to go to another respectful, unbiased Beis Din of Zabla.
In Fact, when Rabbonim have an issue where they are Naturally, Biased, Zabla is The ONLY Way Go, according to Shulchan Aruch!
There is nothing “Shameful” about being “Biased”. Every Human being, if he is only “Normal” and who is not Ill c.v,, Must Have Bias on all Matters where his existence and Power, is an issue. Even Moshe Rabeinu, according to Halacha, can’t claim he is Unbiased, according to Halacha in certain situations.
Berel
Rabbi Bogomilsky is a very well respected talmud chacham, known as being someone that "likt in lernen".
In NJ he is the unofficial Rav for most Lubavitchers and hundreds of Jews in his area.
Once again, to always question the integrity of the "opposition" is the sign of a lack of a legitimate argument.
All those aligned with Rabbi Schwei are "bad". But Yossi Brook, Yossi Katzman, Moshe Rubashkin and all the rest are upstanding citizens of our community and examples to be followed…
Need I say more.
WE ARE ALL GOING TO VOTE
The Election is a FACT
lets all vote and voice our opinion
about the candidates
every one of them is a real gaon and a rov
and even the rebbe refered in public to rabbi raitport as
a POISEK.
dont let all this little people that realy all they want is
machloikes rule our community.
Moshe keep up your head and continue the good work.
WE ARE ALL GOING TO VOTE .
byom zakai TIFERES SHEBTIFERES
un LECHATCHILEH ARIBER.
ONE OF ANASH
GO VOTE! IF YOU WANT MACHLOKES JUST GO TO HELL!
Toshav Eretz Yisroel
All this horrible infighting doesn picture CH like a nice place to live. I’d definetely wouldn’t want to raise children there with all the garbarge that goes on.
This Rav against this other Rav
Some people against Va’ad Kohol (and really trashing Reb Rubashkin)
The Agu"Ch going to Civil Court against the meshichistim and increasing the Chillut Shem Lubavitch
The meshichistim throwing punches outside 770
and the list goes on.
You guys in CH are horribly crazy
Chaim
to: Real Beis Din = Vaad Raboney Lubavitch
while it is true what you stated, the VRL was directed by the rebbe to only be involved in Lubavitch d"t’s (even if they are situated in CH e.g. merkos, 770..) but badazt is not a lubavitch org. and therfore is not under the jurdistiction of VRL.
i once wanted to have a d"t by VRL but since it was a personal fight between me and someone else, they sent me to badatz b/c it is not thier territory.
but i guess if both sides decide to come to VRL they can sit on the d"t.
Schmerl
Which camp will go out and vote?
A) The Schwei camp – wont go
B) The "Real Lubavitch" those who hold themselves non-farmers (i.e. the "Aguch-Ziya-Ohel-Rebbes Room- Schluchim" camp) couldn’t care less abaout Badtz. They also won’t vote. They are just have a good time now!
SO WHO IS VOTING??!!
L. H.
If the VHKL wants to really make sholom;
when the new badatz is sworn in the following should be done to ensure Sholom in the community;
1. they should have the same contract that was edited and approved by the rebbe.
2. they shud cancel every single item of machlokes that they caused;
– cancel all siruvim (fisher, shemtov, krinsky…),
– listen to the rebbes clear instructions and not force sidur kidushin to be preforemd by badatz (the rebbe clearly wrote that badazt has nothing to do with sidur kdushin)
– don’t mix into the territory of VRl, they shud not involve themselves in lubavitch d"t including ones that are situated in ch; bais rivkah, ULY, merkos, 770…
– they shud cancel the netzigim, as the rebe instructed
– they shud cancel the "gaboyim", as the rebbe instructed
– they should send out a letter to all residents of ch, stating that they arestarting on a new foot.. and they wish to represnet the entire ch community. (all those members of ch that hold of the rebbe and his instructins (aka antis) do not hold the badtaz as their rabbonim – not because of politics – but because they sent letters to them requesting understanding.. but they just laughed at them and made a mockery… so badtaz becabe a ine sided b"d.) so they should not tkae sides on issues of yechi…
– when they get sworn in they shud not give an intervew to BM which basicly states that they are only mishichist and the antis.. well…. (as shewi did)
– redo the vad hakshrus and take it out of the hands of the low-life yossi brook (whom id ont trust for kashrus!! v’ein kan hamokom leharich)
– basicly any issues of machlokes shud be canceld. and sit down with a gruop of members fro mthe community from all sideds and work as a rov of the community that they represent the whol community…
Yankel
According the Rabbi SP Bogomilsky’s Seichel – he actualy qualifys to be the Av Beis Din of Badatz
seeking the truth
to CH Person:
Since when is Bogo from New Jerset a shliach.
He never was or will be a shliach.
He has declared war against the Rebbe by being the keynote speaker for the kinnus hameturafim
50% of crown heights
Why by rabbi shwai election 50% of crown heights had to vote, but now not?
Is rubashkin scared that less then 50% will vote?
Not necessarily
Shmuel Pesach Bogomilsky is absolutely not a shliach, he is merely a clergyman from New Jersey who, until now, some may have thought was doing something with his life, thank you sir for proving otherwise!
Top Devorah and others
Devorah Rabbi Schwei’s election are very questionable. Yes he might have been put on a ballot or rather a referendum he has broken every rule that a Rov should live and conduct his piskei dinim by.
He has totally made a sham of the beis Din and undfortunatly most people who went to vote for him were duped under the pretext that rabbi Osdoba had to great a work load.
Now we see the whole reason that he ran was to dicredit rabbi osdoba. Rabbi Osdoba was aware that that was rabbi Schweis agent . Now we can help Rabbi Osdoba and the Beis din to coreect this terrible mistake that we all who voted for rabbi Schwei did.
We will have a Beis Din that can work together and we will all benifit from it.
If rabbi Schwei wantas to continue this childish behavior I am sure the other dayanim in the Beis Din will not be upset if he goes home.
Chaim
If per Rabbi Schwei – Rabbi Segal is a Mesurav L’Ddin than he is indeed a good pair with Rabbi Osdoba because he (Rabbi Osdoba) is also in Cherm from Agudas Harabonim!
zevi
I just chanced upon a sicha of the Rebbe that discuses the appointment of a rov (in E.Y.). very interesting. here is the link:
mms://audio.wlcc.org/wlcc/5732/5732-07-29d%20Sicha%203%20Mi%20hu%20yehudi.mp3
No Choice
Quote: “Can we have some information regarding each candidate: ie. schooling, background, accomplishments, etc., current residence?
Each of the candidates is well known, highly regarded and has extensive experience as a working Rov with the Crown Heights Beis Din. The Rebbe was emphatic that all dayanim must have “shimush” – practical experience, not merely lomdus. The Beis Din would be fortunate to have any or all three these outstanding candidates serving our kehillah”
1) If residences are asking for some information it is the Vaad HaKohol’s obligation to provide it. “Well known” is not an answer.
2) “Highly regarded” is disputable.
3) as far as Shimush. The Rebbe said in farbrengen soon after the election that the rabonim will surly complete SHIMUSH in areas they do not yet poses. The rabonim had assistance from other Lubavitch Moreh Horaah in several areas, but sorry to say there are areas they started working clearly WITHOUT shimush and there are areas the rabonim do not answer but refer to outside rabonim (This is of the current issue)
4) Rabonim from the other side. In reference to the other side on Yechi issue, they totally ignore Rabbi Schwai and any Rav appointed to Bais Din of Crown Heights will automatically be disqualified for them; so this is out of the question. In reference to rabonim supporting Rabbi Schwai’s point of view, I am not aware of any potential candidates. If there are any, I feel it is the obligation of the people in the schunah to force his name into the list.
5) FYI. At the first Rabonim election many rabonim were of the opinion that rules setup by Netzigim (same as Vaad HaShchuna) or totally meaningless and it all depends on how the people vote. i.e. vote for one or two Rabonim in the first election (instead of the minimum of three required at that election) would actually be counted.
6) Has anyone heard of making an appointment for life (not for a limited number of years) by a majority vote of everyone voting?
chbperson
who is this gvir that you all are saying gives money to r. Shwei ?
what happens is 2 are elected then we have 4 rabboinm? does not work!
Dovid
To: Real Beis Din = Vaad Raboney Lubavitch wrote:
So you have a problem with the way Rabbi Osdoba protects his own interests and places himself above the law, and in the next sentence you write that it was a chutzpah to place others in seiruv because they are trully above the law?! make up your mind! Either you’re a commie, in which case you shouldn’t have a problem with Harav Osdoba’s conditions, or your a democrat, which means you agree that no matter what jobs Krinsky and Shemtov were appointed to, they must respond to the legal process as everyone else would!
AP
Can you vote "NO" for all 3 rabonim?
YANKEL
RABBI BOGOMILSKY SHLIT"A IS A VERY WELL RESPECTED RAV. HE IS THE RAV OF MOST LUBAVITCHERS IN NJ AND TO HUNDREDS OF FAMILIES IN HIS AREA.
WHY IS HE ANY WORSE THEN THE OILMAN FROM BORO PARK, THE MALACH FROM EASTERN PARKWAY OR THE ISRAELI????
IF YOU THROW GARBAGE YOU’LL WIND UP SMELLING.
zain tovi ha-eir
wow all you out there!
if not for the fact that the 770 is here and the place where the rebbe daven’d, learned, stayed, farbraing’d, vechulu… we shood have all moved to like a new "kiriyt lubavitch" or something like that just like satmar has……. we will make new rabbonim, new vadd hakahal and it will be all like the rebbe wants BUT like the rebbe sent to presidet "shazar" that we can not leave (770) the place where the rebbe cried for all the yiden ect. we can not leave such a place so………
now that we are here lets find the "reset" butten and start again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eli
right now i cant vote cuz im not eligable, but in 5 yrs i will be eligable, what if i dont like the rabbonim elected now? why shud i be stuck with them later? there shud be new elections every 5 years for badatz (for all memebers) and if they act good towards community ppl will viote them in if not the not…
Genug shoin
Yankel…
Genug
You are being mevazeh talmidaie chachamim
and those who are also speaking of rabbi Bogomilsky.
Yankel in teh same breath when you say that those who thro garbadge will smell , you just threw garbadge
have some sechel
No Choice
Eli, you are going to be eligible to vote in 5 yars b/c that is when you are going to be maried, or you are going to be then 30? If the later is true, we are all giving you a brocho to be maried in the near future and be able to vote; but, please not by this sunday’s election.
youy
I don’t have the patience to read all the comments, but one thing I do have to say: Moshe, knock ’em dead!
resident
BTW M. Rubashkin you seem to point out everyone ‘negative qualities’ even blaming this on Faigie Horowitz’s resignation.
Well… How many people quit because they felt they couldn’t get along with you?#%*)#(
You have helped this community become a disgrace and all of your good deeds cannot counteract the dishevel you have brought about.
crown heights teenager
I would like to tell all CH.info readers one of the things that are happening to our community b/c of this whole fight.
I am a teenager who lives in CH and I’m very confused, I have no idea who is the rav I should ask questions to or for that matter who is the right rav, before pasach my friend asked me what to do about braces on pasach, I told him I don’t know ask a rav, he told me he’s sick of the rabbonim here and he just didn’t do anything about it, that’s what I have to say about the current situation, and I think that if the fact that a lot of teenagers are being turned off bothers anyone, then do something.
p.s. that’s just one case where the fight between the rabbonim made someone not care about what really has to be done , but believe me there are many more such cases, and hopefully someone will do something about this.
to l.h.
good job! hope so too
Lo Oleinu
To MR. Moshe Rubashkin,
I chalenge the legitemacy of(you) Mr Rubashkin’s runing our kehila, because your a convicted criminal. and you DARE TO challange the election of HRAV Schwei shlita IT IS WE THE PEOPLE WHO ELECTED HIM BY AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF eligible VOTERS WE NEVER AGREED TO ANY SIDE KICKS (whether they are good or great dosent matter) THAT YOU CLAIM WAS CONDITIONAL TO HIS ELECTION AND WE NEVER VOTED FOR THEM,(the fact that no body else ran you should ask Rabbi Osdoba shlita he oversaw the aproval of candidates, as he was the only active Rov at that time, but that dosent deligitamize harav schwei election) RABBI SCWEI BRAVELY FOUGHT YOUR ATTEMPTS TO INSTALL HARAV SEGAL WITHOUT A PROPER KEHILA APROVEL & WILL CONTINUE TO BLOCK ANY ELECTION THAT IS PERFORMED IN YOURE STYLE OF WRECKLESS MANOR & SELF INTREST.
Secondly UNfourtunatley the Rubashkin family tries in every way possible to provide gifts to Horav Osdoba Shlita. It is a well known that they sponser his vacation to their country club called nevel each summer ETC, This begs the question what SHTICK the Rubashkin meat & chicken empire have going on with the CHK Especially that since the passing of Harav Marlow ZL( who never agreed to such bribery) Rabbi osdoba considers the Kashrus (CHK) his private business. Mr Rubashkin seeks to get revenge on Harav Schwei SHLITA & those that chalanged the coruption in the CHK hasgacha IT IS OBVIOUS THAT THIS IS NOT GOOD FOR THE RUBASHKIN MEAT EMPIRE. HOW DEAR YOU THEN CLAIM IN YOUR LETTER THAT RABBI SCHWEI WHO ACCEPTS NO gifts FROM THE RUBASHKIN EMPIRE, IS UNDERMINED BY PAYMENT FROM ANY BODY ON THE CONTARERY IT IS YOU MR RUBASHKIN THAT HAS THE CHUTZPAH TO CONSTANTLY THREATEN TO STOP HIS PAY CHECK (if SB Drizin sponsored the rov salary for some time may G-D bless him, that does not make him corrupt the corrupt one is you, MR Rubashkin It is you who EXACERBATED THE FIGHTING IN THIS COMMUNITY TEN FOLD SINCE YOUR ELECTION and like the russian mob you lay the blame on
Harav Schwei Shlita, becouse he is a man of OUTSTANDING CHARECTER & wont sing to you the convicted criminal’s SHTICK. Then you did your rampage of destruction you bribe two air heads in the VAAD with no experience in community affairs like youre self, to use their signature for what ever floats your boat & personal agenda and leave the other two out of the loop AND YOU PUT ON THIS PITIFULL FACE LIKE ITS ALL LISHEM SHAMAYIM. You wreacked havoc on the CHJCC finances I Know that you write out personal donations for non community members from CHJCC money, then bounce checks left & right. When the netzgim call youre wreckless behavior in to question & ask to see the books you INSTEAD OF BEING A GROWN UP(never mind a leader) & PROVING YOUR INOCENCE & SHOWING YOUR BOOKS YOU CHOSE TO HIDE THEM OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO HIDE. YOU HAVE NO ACCOMPLISHMENTS TO SHOW FOR YOUR ADMINSTRATION, SO YOU BAD MOUTH THE EXPERIENCED PEOPLE IN THE VAAD, at LEAST THEY DID NO HARM AT LEST LEARN THAT FROM THE MEMBERS THAT WERE IN THE PREVIOUS VAAD. The netzgim were designed to protect us the public from a churban like you MR Rubashkin have created (by providing checks & ballance, like the congress vs senate) so you destroyed them by manipulatting rav osdoba to have 770 throw out their netzig & you convinced some of you buddies in some shuls to switch to netzigim that will buy your BS violating affectively destroying our last line of defense. ALL THE WHILE YOU SCREAM HOW EVERY BODY ELSE WAS ELECTED ILEGITAMETLEY and is undemacratic (Rav Schwei shlita, exeutive board of Netzigim. etc) THAT IS EVERY BODY THAT STANDS UP TO YOUR CORUPTION. WORST OF ALL not only do you have the chutzpah to litteraly curse Harav Mangel for speaking out against your coruption BUT YOU WRAP HARAV OSDOBA SHLITA LIKE A SHMATA AROUND YOUR FINGER I WONDER WHAT YOU THREATENED HIM WITH AND WHAT NEW BRIBES YOU CAME UP WITH TO MANIPULATE HIM TO RUBBER STAMP ALL YOUR EVIL WORK RACHMANA LITZLON. Resign now you do not belong in public office.
Unfourtunatley with your terror tactics I am forced to sign Anynomous
PS WE MUST impeach MR. Rubashkin So that he will stop terrorizing & destroying our holy schuna NOW!!!
meir
who has time to write so much?
Young Israel
Reb Schwei, is the reason for all the tzoris, would he not allow himself to be a puppet of the people who are instigators for fights. We would not have this dilemma. Any new rov will look to implement something that will be disagreeable to someone, unfortunately the nature of the job. Reb Schwei picked a fight with the Rubashkin clan, which brook is their enforcer. Lets see who the new Rabonim will pick fights with. This is turning out to be a real thriller. The excuse that we have to get rid of Brook, maybe the core, however let the people, vote for a vaad hakohol that will get rid of Brook, without fighting the rabonim. For our instant satisfaction Rubashkin clan is giving us a superb performance.
mms://audio.wick.org/wick/5732/5732-07-29d%20Sicha%203%20Mi%20hu%20yehudi.mp3
Fabrications??
Who created this story that the Rebbe told Rabbi Mangel not be a Ruv of Badat”z? He has been active in and sat with the Badat”z of Ch for many years on some of their hardest cases.
I suspect that that is another one of Moshe Rubaskins fabrications to justify his “private” B”D to ensure the kashrus of his families’ meat no matter its standard.
gruntig
Meir, who has time to READ so much?!
sammy
L.H. :
i agree with you 100% ! right now i am pondering if yes to vote or if not to vote. and i know many of my peers are also undecided.
The rpoblem we have is that till now we looked at badatz (even pre-shwei) as a one sided b"d which fights chabad and the rebbe.
The only way we would vote is if these rabbonim who are running come out wth a letter promising what L.H. pointed out. if they promise not to involve them selves with Mesdaer Kedushin and all the other issues, then there is what to vote for.
If they will continue in this path and do not promise to listen to the rebbe then u will end up with 3 groups in CH;
1. Osdabo bdt"z
2. Shwei bdt"z
3. NON – bdt"z
i agree
ye and they shud appoligize to fisher!
levi
http://www.chabad.info/inde…
simple
why not have new elections for all the rabonim? shwei osdabo and the new ones.
whoever wins will be a rov and thats final!
meir
when they were working on making a bdatz, teh rebbe said that there shud either be 1 rov or 3 rabbonim, if heller is still a rov and u have osdabo and shwei, and anotehr 3 winn that is six.
not necessarily
I am actually from New Jersey, and I together with many colleagues feel disgusted by your comments yankel. Most is over 50%. I think you should check your facts. He is jobless (as is apparent), but doesn’t even live in the shchuna, I have more respect for someone who does, than some clown doing his own brand of outreach somewhere else!
Menachem P.
to l.h.
rabbi zirkind knows from his father how the rebbe did not want the beis din to get involved in siddur k’dushin and otehr issues so i guess we can vote for him.
Wishing Both of them Hatzlacha!
At the last Big Farbrengen in Beis Rivka, I spoke to one of our prominent Mashpiim regarding Rubashkins Machlokes against Rabbi Schwei and him wanting to make elections in order to make a "Rub Out" and "Ethnic Cleansing" of Rabbi Schwei and all his supporters.
He answered that as far as we are all concerned, the only Rabbonim we recognize is Vaad Raboney Lubavitch and as far as the "Rabbonim Fighting", he says this is a Good Thing, for us and he Wishes Both Of Them "Hatzlacha".
I asked him, who he would vote for?
He Answered that he would not vote for any of them because to do so would mean:
1) That we recognize the Badatz and it is Our Shitah and it’s in our best interests, that we don’t interests to Legitimize Them.
2) What is even worse, he said that since the entire purpose of this Election is in order to effectively Eliminate one Rav and in order to give Rabbi Osdoba, Full Blast, Unchallenged Power, with automatic Rubber Stamp from the others, Therefore: The Very Last thing I would ever want to do is give the Rabbi Osdoba Unilateral and Unchallenged Power, to make him worse than he is already. The corrupt Badatz is Bad Enough As Is.
For "US", he argued it is much better if we "keep them fighting" and we should specifically make sure that "NON OF THEM WIN", this way we will "keep them busy" with each other, so that they don’t make "Siruvim" and "Cherem’s" against Reb Yudel or Against Harav Shem Tov or against Reb Dovid Fisher and who knows who will the next on their Hit List?
shalom
Please ! we are all anash. what the rabbonim are doing.they are doing.if you have question about it . please ask them privately. we have no right to speak LOSHON HORO in public. and make fun of rabbonim,who ever does embarase rabbonim in public is OSSID LITTEN ES HADIN and remember the world is not HEFKER . please do not be a part of tearing a jewish community
Wana help The Rav who Siruv-s Yudel?
I agree with L.H.
The Badatz is corrupt for a lot more reasons, than just because Brook Runs Kashrus and Katzman runs the Machlokes and Osdoba issues "Siruvim" and rutinely issues Psikey Dinim without even bothering to hear both sides.
Rabbi Osdoba’s Policy seems to be to "Shoot First, and Ask Questions Later".
There is No way I am going to lend a hand to Vote for these 3 new Clowns, who will be Rabbi Osdoba’s Rubber Stamps, to make him even worse than he is already.
The Machlokes proves one point, that Vaad Raboney Lubavitch is the only effective and fully Functional Lubavitch Beis Din, with no Internal Machlokes. – True Achdus and True Ahavas Yisroel!
DB
How come only Rubashkin seems to be able to spell?
Baruch
1. They used to say Fischer killed the Rabonus in CH, then they used to say that Rabbi Hodakov killed the Rabbonus in CH, then they said Aguch killed the Rabbonus in CH — well isn’t it ironic that what they couldn’t do in twenty years, Rabbi Schwei did in no time at all!!
2. Bereishis…The Badatz started off on the wrong foot (influenced by a power hungry vaad hakahol), by trying to consolidate power via midas hadin and coercion. Had they grown hrough patience, love and concern for the people who elected them–they would have merited all the brochos the bestowed on them. But alas, it was not to be. Instead we had years of siruvin and charomos (unheard of in a true chasidishe beis din), and eventually the hate they prpogated turned its ugky head on itself.
3. Let’s hope that the newly formed beis din –whoever is voted in — will work swiftly to undo all that negativity.
4. May the Almighty help them in this difficult but highly important first step. AMEN.
nebach
i hope the people in crown heights involved in this will be busy with this for a while so when it comes time to clean up 770 under aguch and merkos iy"h you all will be too busy with "important" issues like this so that merkos can take care of business
is there a way we can get the tzfatim involved in this? it would be nice to have them out of the way too
ch resident
raising issue of messader kidushin is important. I think if a rule was issued that the rabonim cannot accept any $$$ for doing their job [which they get a salary + benefits] then the policy of the messader kidushin will not be a problem.
Obviously, I see this issue as GREED. As rabbonim get plenty of CASH for messsader kidushin when plenty of pple DO NOT want to use them………… but have no choice. If they were not allowed to accept the CASH….
One rav against the other?
I find it very unsettling that people can equate the "two parties involved here as being equal,
My fist point is:
when the Halacha says that a Bais Din must have at least three people, there is a reason for that, and the reason is so that if there is a disagreement between Rabbanim regarding a Halacha, we can follow the majority.
I am quite certain that this is not the first time that there was a machlokes between Rabbonim, as a matter of fact this has happened quite a bit through out history, and has most probably happened with our Bais Din here in C.H. within the past 15 Yrs. Between R. Marlow, R. Osdoba and R. Heller, yet never once in all of these years has the argument become public and personal.
In the past when a Rav saw that he was ruled out by the majority, not only did he not argue with them publicly but he actually supported that Psak Din Publicly, even though he Privately Disagreed.
This is precisely why the Halacha tells us to have three Rabbanim, not so that if the minority doesn’t like the ruling he should go out of his way to start to delegitimize the other Rabbanim as R schwai, tried to do to R. Segal.
This same principle of respect applies even if for arguments sake there were only Two Rabbanim, as in the years before R. Marlow Past away, (after R. Heller had already pulled back) the disagreements never got out, and the reason for that is simple, there were rabbonim in the Bais Din who respected one another, and they respected themselves too.
To sum up, ever since R. Schwei became a Rov, it has been hard to find even one instance where he has not publicly disagreed with R. Osdoba on an important Issue, and he didn’t do it in a very polite way either.
It is very obvious to anyone who has a half of a brain in his head that the source of the problem is Rabbi Schwei,.
I can write a book about this, and trust me i have absolutely no agenda, I am a Bocher learning in 770, but watching from the side its so hard to miss the truth, I don’t know how anyone can be so blinded.
My second point is:
The legitimacy of R. Schwei as a member of the BD"TS in the first place is questionable,
First of all R. Schwei was allowed to run, only for the reason that R Osdoba couldn’t handle all of the communities issues alone, he never had Shimmush, but the plan was that he would get Shimmush on the job, by watching and observing R. Osdoba and learning from him.
Instead of learning from R Osdoba and in that way getting the proper Shimmush, R. Schwei trampled on everything R. Osdoba said.
Therefore R. Schwei’s shimmush is nonexistent which makes his status as rov in Crown Heights questionable, (as I recall someone mentioned that the Rebbe said that certainly the Rabbonim would get Shimmush),
This is aside from the fact that people have already mentioned, the agreement of Rav Osdoba to let rav schwei run, was written on the same paper that said that Rabbi’s Raitport and Segal will help out in the Bais Din as well, therefore, if R, Segal and R. Raitport are not Legitimate neither is R. Schwei.
My Final point:
the fact that R Segal served on the Badats was known to r Schwei for a long time, yet he never questioned R. Segal’s status until R. Segal sided with R. Osdoba, on Halachos which again made R. Schwei feel threatened.
Anybody who can equate the “two sides” Has got to be Braindead.
shliach
R"L
Nothing else to say.
Fair and balanced
Lets look at all of the above in a good way. At least we are talking and expressing our opinions.
Unlike another community near us that may explode with violence on shabbos.
Also how about a recall election for vad Hakol
Vaad Raboney Lubavitch ...
Vaad Raboney Lubavitch is the biggest joke of all!
Look at the Neparstak vs. Cunin matter…
They are a hoax. Most shluchim do not trust them. They have zero credibility. They do what they want with the backing of Aguch… another ALPHABET ORGANIZATION!
Vaad Raboney Lubavitch is made up of rabbonim who have no real position. These are all wana be’s or has been’s, individuals who were taken out of the woodwork to serve as a front. Look at most the of these Rabbis who recently became important by being placed at head tables of Lubavitch functions. Nice men that are pawns and a front ‘CHIEF RABBI’ because they look the part. What have they accomplished in their own domain… The same is with most of the big rabbis who operate under the banner of Vaad Raboney Lubavitch!
Most of you are too young to remember these guys. Ask your parents, they will tell you, one by one these are all people who never made it, were never qualified for much and are now on the sole basis that they have long white beards and on the verge of croaking are being taken out of the woodwork, being recruited by a group to act as Rabbis to pass law as it satisfies these individuals?
And look at these individuals. Who are they? what do they do on a daily basis? Who employS them? What have they achieved in their 50 years other than living from donation to donation? Look at these people one by one and ask yourself these questions. If you were a Shliach would you hire them? If you were in business, could you rely on them? When was the last time you noticed one of these "Leaders of Lubavitch’ is shul davening at 7am, 8am, 9am… 10am? Other than participating on a dais where their ego is fed and they are given the opportunity to be heard, when have you seen them participating in organizations that help the klal?
Look at these individuals one by one and ask yourself, who are these people and what have they done.
The fish stinks from the head. We are all in a bad situation. We; the individuals, We; the Shluchim; We the parents; We the bachurim; We the simple member of Anash, who wake up early to go and daven, run to work to earn a living, run home to spend time with our families and then run off to hear a shiur… We are the ones who lose out.
WE NEED DIRECTION! WE NEED SOLID, RESPONSIBLE LEADERS WHO ARE HONEST, HARD WORKING AND DEDICATED TO THE EMES!
ISN’T IT A SHAME THAT CHASIDIM WHO WERE ZOCHE TO HAVE THE GREATEST LEADER IN HISTORY LEAD US, TEACH US, GUIDE US AND NURTURE US, HAVE LEARNED LITTLE FROM ALL THE REBBE’S TEACHINGS. SHAME ON THOSE WHO CALL THEMSELVES OUR LEADERS FOR MAKING A MOCKERY OF LUBAVITCH AND ABUSING A SYSTEM THAT HAVE ALLOWED THE WICKED TO PREY ON THE MEEK AND INNOCENT.
IF YOU ARE TRULY LEADERS, TAKE RESPONSIBILITY AND LEAD… ALL OF YOU!
eli
TO ch resident:
Besides for the issue of greed, there is a fundamental problem for the members of badatz to force siddur k’dushin;
When they were preparing the contract for the rabbonim, they sent the draft to the rebbe, and one of the terms of the contract was that only members of the badatz can perform sidur k’dushin. The rebbe wrote against this and therefore they took it out of the final contract.
So therefore if they will force someone to use badatz for sidur k’dushin then they are going against the rebbe!
Moshiach NOW!
It says in Gemara, that even during the time that a large part of the Yidden worshipped Avoida Zara R"L, still, due to the fact that they were b’achdus – together-they were able to defeate their enemy—all for achdus…
If only!!!
Raboisay, GROW UP!
P.S. It is of MY opinion that the people who look like they cause the least Machloikes (aka the PR guys), realy cause the most trouble in/for this community.
A Fellow CH Teenager
To Crown Heights Teenager:
I’m with you all the way. I’m so disgusted by what’s going on and feel helpless to do anything about it. Pirkei Avos says, "aseh lcha rav", but I have no idea where to go! Instead, I’ve become lax in my kashrus (because different Rabbanim say different things and the circumstances keep changing; I wouldn’t be able to eat a thing if I followed all the opinions I’ve heard), and my whole attitude towards yiddishkeit has changed. If Torah can be used to bring such hate, and all these opions can be so right and so wrong BASED ON TORAH, how can it be Truth?? Do I want to go on Shlichus in such an environment? Do I want to be a Lubavitcher in such an environment?
I’m still trying to figure it all out.
A Fellow CH Teenager
Drowning in CH
I do not even know where to begin and it is very late, so this may ramble and wander a bit. I am just a regular Crown Heights guy. You would not even know who I am, but I am more of a majority than any of you would ever realize. This is because I am one of the new prototype “yungeleit” of Crown Heights. (I am a, now, semi-young married man with children.) I would like to think of Crown Heights as a good place to live. I would like to think there is something worth getting involved with in Crown Heights. I would like to be proud of Crown Heights. All those desires though have been crushed by the years of endless and brutal in-fighting amongst all the supposed Rabbonim, wannabe politicians and supposed leaders of Crown Heights. What is left is just a frustrated, demoralized and nearly apathetic shell.
There are hundreds, if not more, just like me in Crown Heights. We are too numb from all the crime that is occurring all around us. We are too overwhelmed trying to get our children a better education. We are too busy trying to survive in a community that we have been swiftly priced out of. We simply cannot muster the effort to fight our way through the quicksand of secrets and lies any more.
When I try to get any truthful information or understanding of what is going on and who is really trying to help the community it is like trying to grab a fish with greased hands. Just when I think I have it, I realize the truth has already twisted away and disappeared. Everywhere I turn it is the same. The Rabbonim, they are sending out letters each saying the diametrically opposite thing from the other. The Vaad, they have two segments fighting for control of the organization, money, power and the community itself. What are the two sides? Just ask them and each will tell you that the other is a corrupt cesspool of backroom deals. The Netzigim, well which Netzigim group? The old ones or the new ones? They both claim the legal and moral high ground, so which group should I speak. The virus has even spread out to my shul at this point. The one thing I always liked about my shul was the lack of politics and strife, but now even it is rapidly cracking through its very foundation with politics and infighting. The whole community is festering with this virus of people wanting to control the money and grab the power.
Now as much as I would like to simply ignore the election for new Rabbonim and allow the processes to work themselves out there is one nagging problem that keeps coming up. It has been pointed out and stated numerous times in the letters and comments that the Rabbonim who get elected now will be elected for life. Anyone who is officially elected Rav in this community will have tremendous influence, officially and/or unofficially, over any of the other elections that come afterwards, Vaad, Netzigim, etc. Whoever is then elected to those groups affects smaller groups, programs and monies in Crown Heights.
What do I do then? Do I cut off my nose to spite my face and not vote and therefore have no say or involvement as that first domino falls setting in motion influence over the next 20 years of community affairs?
Or do I get involved, vote and go along with the bull rush efforts to take over the socio-economic structure of Crown Heights?
I wish I knew. I wish I knew.
YANKEL
LET’S FACE REALITY. THIS WHOLE THING IS ONLY CEMENTING THE REALITY IN C.H.
THERE WILL BE 2 ENTITIES AND EVERYONE WILL GO ABOUT THEIR OWN BUSINESS HAPPILY EVER AFTER.
RUBASHKIN WILL WIND UP CREATING MORE MACHLOIKAS IN C.H. UNTIL HE IS NOT REELECTED IY"H.
THE MISHUGOYIM ARE RUNNING THE ASYLUM!!!
Chaim
To Nuchie Gross,
True, there are many many troubles and sad events in our holy community.
False, that Rubashkins elections is the solution to the problem.
I don’t think anyone is against elections. We are against corrupt elections.
Nuchie, you know better than most people how corrupt things have gotten in C.H. since 3 Tamuz and since the passing of Rabbi Marlow z"l.
Why don’t you propose a real, and more importantly, legal and legitimate process for elections of Rabonim?
As a former member of Vaad Hakahel, as someone that has "suffered from a psak of Rabbi Osdoba" (your words), and as someone that has now come out for Rubashkins elections you can perhaps be the right person to save the matzav at the bottom of the ninth inning.
Speak to Rubashkin now and pull it off.
Hatzlacha raba!
Your chaver.
No Choice
To Vaad Raboney Lubavitch:
Quote"Most of you are too young to remember these guys. Ask your parents, they will tell you, one by one these are all people who never made it, were never qualified for much and are now on the sole basis that they have long white beards and on the verge of croaking are being taken out of the woodwork, being recruited by a group to act as Rabbis to pass law as it satisfies these individuals?."
Appearntly you forgot (or to yong to remember) that the orriginal Crown Heights rabonim (Rabbi Marlow OBM and for chaim aruchim Rabbi Osdoba) were members of Vaad Rabonei Lubavitch, and it is there that they got whatever experince/shimush they had. Non of the Rabonim (including Rabbi Heller Shy’) had any other official positions as a Shul or communuty rabbi.
Dear Chaim..
You are correct and Nuchie I agree with Chaim and we all agree that we need honest elections and not the way they are being handled by the present group.
Rubashkin may be a great guy, but this will definetly be a mistke and the reult will be nasty.
Nuchie..get him to postpone the elections..
Shliach PA
to: Vaad Raboney Lubavitch …
what din torah did u lose by them?
and dont bring anyhthing about the cunnin neparstek case, cuz the corrupt ones there are the isreali "rabbonim" ashkenazi.. (and this is not the time to expound on this – there is enough rabboinm bashing on this post right now – no need to involve the truly corrup isreali rabbonim)
VRL as far as i know is currently backlogged (r"l) with d"t’s – i am trying to have one there and i know whats going on..
No Choice
On issue of Siddur kidushin
The Rebbe instructed that Siddur Kidushin should not be performed exclusively by the Rabonim, as this was not case when Rabbi Dvorkin OBM was around. (It is Yossie Brook who is violating this rule by forcing/intimating everyone, as he does with many other instructions of the Rebbe and of many halochos.) The Rebbe made NO mention that the Rabonim should not be paid for this service and it was obvious that this will be a supplemental income for Rabnim, as this is the common practice all over.
ON A SERIOUS NOTE!!! FINAL RESULT
this is the story!
shwei’s whole legitimacy as being a rav dosent make sence at all!
he was elected in a vote that was yes or no?!?!?! that slike the vote they have in iraq by sadam!
and the fact that he "won" is only because ot tht many people are that bored to go out and wirte no! but there wasnt even close to 50% of elegible voters who voted, and therefor the whole vote is void.
now you may say that "he is in and that in the past" and lets say he is even in… if the only thing that he is doing there is causing machlkes then we see that there was just an agenda that was trying to be pushed here and a few "idiots" (tzfatim bisheim hatoar and bisheim hamushal- who are the only "people" that give him attention) back him in his crazzy ideas that he has.
now to anyone who even cares a little bit about crown heights and lubavitch… should realise what he is doing to the comunity and to the name of lubavitch, and eaither he dosent belong in the badatz at all or now that he is there should vote for the other candidates to be and give them a chance to "maybe maybe" get some things back on track.
yankel
we need fisher back!
toshav hashchuna
1) Does anybody know why (i.e. on what halachik issue) rabbi shwai wanted to call Rabbi Segal to a din torah?
2) Why does the election have to be beis Iyar only a few days after the candidates were made public? Generally people should be given time to think and decide ‘beyishuv hadaas’
3) if we wait with the election, may be rabbi shwai would find some one who he thinks is eligible to run and that would spare the community from this divided election
4) Why is it a given, that these 3 rabbis would be a rubber stamp for rabbi asdaba
chossid
Original Post…
"Even more so, when this “askon” announces openly – (after trying to speak quietly behind the scenes, and did not help) – that if his candidate for Rov will be elected, then he will give money etc., and if not he will not give … and through this he wants to force on the entire community his opinions – there is no bigger shochad (bribe) then this!"
Rubashkins Reply…
"We can only assume who wrote this disgraceful letter, and what his personal agenda might be. The fact is, this election is precisely the opposite – an honest, objectively monitored election that is open to ALL candidates. This is in marked contrast to the last election in which alternative candidates were kept off the ballot. At that time private interests, by eliminating any competition, forced the community to accept a single candidate, one who was being paid for years by private balebatim. It is interesting that it is precisely the people who engineered the last election who are now accusing the current Vaad of doing what they themselves did and are trying to do again. Kol ha-posel mumav posel."
Does Rubashkin realise that this "disgraceful letter" with a "personal agenda", is From Sicho Shabbos Parsha Matos Mase 5746!!!