The answer to the first question of did the article create change is unfortunately little – if any. Despite the well-intentioned article and the enthusiastic and positive feedback nothing really changed.
Op-Ed: Should We Stop Simchas Bais Hashoeiva?
After my last Op-Ed article about young Tishrei visitors to Crown Heights, who come and spend the month without a program or supervision, I was deluged with response and feedback. There were those who reached out to me by e-mail, those who bumped into me in the street and some people who called me by phone. After thanking me for bringing the subject out into the open most people had some variation of the same two questions: A) Did the article help create change? B) What’s going to be with Simchas Bais Hashoeiva? Can we facilitate any change there?
The answer to the first question of did the article create change is unfortunately little – if any. Despite the well-intentioned article and the enthusiastic and positive feedback nothing really changed.
Those parents that were going to take parental responsibility for their children – by seeing to it that their children have proper placement and program – did it; the parents who unfortunately abdicated their parental responsibility in this matter sent their children unattended and unsupervised, anyway.
The answer to the second question regarding Simchas Bais Hashoeiva is as follows: The Rebbe himself instructed, inspired and cheered us on to dance and sing in the streets during the nights of Sukkos to commemorate the Simchas Bais Hashoeiva in Yerushalayim which took place in the streets.
The Mishnah (Sukkah 5-3) says “There was not a courtyard in Jerusalem that was not illuminated by the light of the Beis Hashoeiva.” Every single street and alleyway in the entire city of Yerushalayim was lit up at this time.
Simply understood this was because their celebration was so great they actually lit up the entire city.
I would like to suggest another reason for the city being lit up was because human nature was as human nature is even in the time of the Bais Hamidkdosh.
Those who organized the Simchas Bais Hashoeiva – the Kohanim and Leviim – recognized their responsibility to make sure that no one could hide in their alleyway or get lost in some side street; therefore every street was lit up so that everyone can see who goes where and what’s going on.
Some have said that we should stop the dancing in the streets completely, suggesting that Rshus HaRabim refers to our Shuls… 770… etc. … but the Rebbe told us specifically to dance in the street.
In other communities around the world dancing was stopped altogether. In my opinion, this too is not the proper approach.
Like the time of the Bais Hamikdosh we have to increase supervision.
I therefore would like to make a suggestion that we move the dancing to the street in front of 770. The women will be able to stand on the plaza and the men will have plenty of dancing space in the service lane.
In that way girls will not enter stores on the men’s side of the street and boys won’t enter stores on the women’s side of the street. The stores will be able to be open and do business as they do during the day.
In addition, those who come join the dancing on Eastern Parkway will be coming for the sole purpose of dancing and Simchas Bais Hashoeiva.
I realize this is not a complete solution. It will, however, be one step in the right direction.
May you all be blessed with a Freilichen Yom Tov.
May we be Zocheh to dance at Simchas Bais Hashoeiva with Moshiach when all the dancing will be with true great holiness.
This Op-Ed reflects the views of its author. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CrownHeights.info nor of its Editors.
A reader that wishes to make his or her voice heard on any topic of their desire is welcome to submit his or her Op-Ed to News@CrownHeights.info.
i love tzfat
But then where will the Tzfatiim have THEIR simchas beis?
LEHOIR
The reason that the SBH is held on Kngstn and Mongomery is because the Rebbe instructed that it should be celebrated Bechutzo Shel Ir and Montgomery is the furthest street in the IMMEDIATE shchuno.
on the merit of my words
with complete respect and admiration for rabbi shea hecht, all of the great work he does and his great wisdom etc,…
the reply to your SBH eastern parkway solution is a clear:
NO, NO and NO!
before commenting, in my head i started to put together the reasons why the solution is wrong practicaly, logisticaly, foundationaly and fundamentaly. I got from reasons A to G so fast and then decided to scratch making the case for kingston etc, and simply voice my objection and cast my vote for “NO!”
Leave it as is… but light up the dark areas, physicaly and spiritualy.
the store sides is a problem that has an on-site solution as well, if people realy cared to give it two thoughts and focus more on preservation as opposed to destruction via chumrahs and all sorts of modern day narishkeiten that dont fix any problems, but seem to do a super great job at distancing the masses from the solutions.
btw, heres something just for the sake of controversey (and food for thought):
it once happened, that the wise leaders of the Jewish people, in a dire situation and moment of desperation, called for Jewish girls to go out dancing in the street where the men picked them out one by one etc (you all know which story i am refering to).
we have a serious shidduch crisis going on… do you think the rabbonim (the ones who are busy finding new problems for the jewish people every other day and great solutions to them too) are going to call for something similar very soon?
im kidding of course, but think about what im saying… all this NEW chumrahs and precautions etc,
oh, i almost forgot, here is the place to mention: 770’s blue tarp mechitza is ugly sheb’ugly!! Thats right, there i said it!
but it was fine the way it was before gimmel tammuz. ?. !.
btw, so was benedictine, before someone went looking to find problems. but until then it was good for the rebbe rashab, the FR and the Rebbe!!!
hmmm. nishtanu ha’itim or nishtanu ha’rabonim? you decide.
Where is this Rabbi-s Leadership?
Would the Beis Hamikdosh end Simchas Beis Hashoeiva? Never! In the days of the Beis Hamikdosh …. Beis Din took an active role … sent people out patrolling to make sure that Tznius was kept.
Why can’t our Beis Din take an active role?
After Yom Tov …. Tzadikim would fast B’HaB just because of Tznius problem in Yerushalayim. If our leaders took such an approach … I wonder how many problems would actually happen in CH?
After years of neglect, and Crown Heights having great leaders (please no laughing) we now have a rabbi in the community suggesting stop the Simchas? How about taking an active role, and creating a group of 100 Shomrim? (If you fail to follow the rules, you must face the Beis Din the next day!)
wont work
sorry it wont work. being a girl I know it will be virtually impossible just to stand on the plaza to watch! there is barely any room. thats the practical point.
on a tzniyos level nothing is accomplished the same crown corner will still continue as evrything else and will be even worse as now there is no gender related stores like pizza for the girls and Nosh World for the boys.
Yosef
Re moving the party to 770: would the crowd be sufficiently and safely contained within the service lane?
I don’t think eastern parkway could be sectioned for 7 nights.
ya
It will definitely not solve the problem entirely, but is definitely going in the right direction, as you said.
Thank you R’ Shea for bringing up every day issues and trying to solve them in practical and simple ways.
CN
Bad idea. There’s not enough room by 770, the porch wouldn’t nearly hold all the women, and the neighbors in that area really don’t appreciate being kept awake by the music and noise for a whole week. Why must Rabbi Hecht always focus so much on the negative in his op eds. And if these youngsters wouldn’t be doing these things that Rabbi Hecht complains of in Crown Heights, who knows what worse things they would be doing elsewhere?
Other Bubby
This is a positive step forward to tznius. Everyone gains!!
hate to be a pessimist but...
trust me unfortunately with the heintege teg crowd the boys and girls will still find ot a way to “’pass by” the other side
BP yid
Rabbi Hecht, yasher koyach!
THIS is yiras shemayim!
waiting till they all go home
I’m amazed that Shea Hecht is so amazed that nothing has changed. DUH!!! What did he expect? Maybe I’m smarter than him. I knew that it will be the same chaos and irresponsibility that we’ve seen over the past years. So did everyone else.
Did you really expect that because you wrote an article you could change things? I don’t see in this Op-Ed how you tried. What exactly did YOU do to make the situation better & safer & who, apart from us negligent parents, stopped you? Come clean, instead of preaching.
stop it
I did not have time to read this article being it is erev yom tov, but from the title of the op ed I say, YES, stop simchas beis hashoevah.
Trust me this annual chilul Hashem is not what the Rebbe had in mind when he said we should dance in the streets.
LIVING IN REALITY
WITH GREAT PAIN IN MY HEART, I MUST STATE THAT IT SHOULD BE DISCONTINUED. THE COMMUNITY HAS SPIRALED DOWNWARDS. THERE HAS BEEN MORE SPRITITUAL DETERIATION THEN THE GOOD THAT SBH HAS PROMPTED.
STILL, SBH MUST GO ON. SO, AS AN ALTERNATIVE,EACH SHUL AND YESHIVA SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN SBH. RESULTING IN A CONTROLLED AND WELL MONITORED CELEBREATION.
CHAG SAMAYACH
Stop SBH for a year!
Rabbi Hecht, be honest. Stopping it for at least a year is the only way to go.
Great idea with a twist
This is a great idea!! but you got the place wrong. The correct place to move it to is East NY Avenue and Albany by the School yard. Gut Yom Tov.
Easier said then done
Another solution to the issue is something that may be a little out of our community “leaders” reach.
And that is to have all the stores CLOSE THEIR DOORS during the time of SBH – i mean what more important a buck in the pocket – or tnius ???
I think if a storekeeper on kingston is a true yireh shamayim he would take a loss and close his store b/c in truth he is really gaining!
CH resident
Um.. Sorry to burst the naive bubble most of you negative commenters are living inside but there are people that come into Crown Heights to watch the SBH and then there is the group that are coming in to watch the girls or boys and hopefully do more than watch.
Every year while walking to the SBH, we have seen teenagers and adults sitting on stoops doing drugs, acting like they are in a brothel and worse.
You really think its better that people are coming into our heilige Shuchna to do these things and further corrupt our impressionable youth, than to do it elsewere? People will find a way to act in a deviant manner no matter where they are.
Maybe R’ Hecht isn’t focusing on the negative, just stating things that are hidden and not spoken about in our community. Things that people would rather keep hidden and swept under the rug.
Maybe it is time for parents to step up and be parents to the children that they brought into this world.
Yes boys will be boys and girls will be girls. But… there has to be some sort of limit and some sort of control.
resident
Living in Reality makes an excellent point. In other communities, private institutional sponsored events is how it is done. In Monsey for example, different homes serve for this cause every night and the various Mosdos have controlled activities.
Now, many will say, “This is The REbbe’s Negihborhood So We Can NOt Change a thing or else we will be going against the Rebbe”
GUESS WHAT, all the Chabad Houses, Shuls, Schools, and Mosdos for frum Lubavitch communities around the world that do what I pointed out above are ALSO representing the Rebbe and what the Rebbe stands for.
If these new ideas can be successful else where, it can be implemented in Crown Heights without people thinking the Rebbe is being disgraced.
chossid
SBH in Kingston ave should stop ,unless is only for men.
we are in different times, and the general tznius level in CH is low, plus ppl coming from the outside
The Rebbe wanted a SBH in CH to make a Kiddush Hashem and not the opposite
enough stop it now
stop using the rebba as an excuse to continue this terrible situation . if the rebba would recive information on whats going on at simchas bais he would of stop it immediatly. do u think the rebba meant this .unfortuantly using the rebba to continue this is truly unbelievable.u want to do the rebbas will learn chitas daven with heart and a minyon learn a mamaor etc.and have a real chassidesher farbrangen .enough with this falsehood using the rebba for this.
Benedictine
I know this is off the subject, but in response to the earlier comment:
“btw, so was benedictine, before someone went looking to find problems. but until then it was good for the rebbe rashab, the FR and the Rebbe!!!”
Because Benedictine was kosher years ago and the Rebeim drank it does not mean it is kosher now! Southern Comfort used to be kosher but was reformulated and is no longer kosher. The same may be true of Benedictine.
In general liquers require a hechsher; Benedictine has none. Check the websites of the various hashgacha agencies; NONE recommend Benedictine.
Until it has a hechsher or a Rav with kashurus expertise visits the plant and gives his OK those who are careful about kashrus would do themselves a favor by finding something else to say l’chayim on. There is no shortage of mashka out there that is kosher l’cal hadayos…
Joe
I think that Kids, teenagers etc that come to crown Heights must be supervized at all times by responsible adults.
The way how to do this is by making sure that their parents (of those that come from abroad) understand that the people that give lodge and food in crown heights to visitors, won’t give any to anybody that is not supervized by somebody, period.
That person will be called and resposible if the person in his charge will be found doing something improper, they could be sent back or grounded, or not to be allowed to come to NY for a certain period of time etc
Another problem is people that come from other communities. The solution to their mingling in the corner of Crown and kingston and other areas should be to put a tall wall, suka like with an opening to allow people walking freely during the day and to go in and out of the ladies section, but the areas inside the simchas beis Hashoeva and outside should be very clearly delineated. In other words besides having a plan not to let this mingling happen, to have very clearly marked that these people are not part of the event.
We have to do something
I don’t think that by moving the SBH to 770 will help the crown crowd will just move to Union. I do think that something still must be done.
Dovid
There is no way to stop it. I know I look forword to sbh. And since there is no leadership in this comunity no one will step up. We need a laeder someone to deside. If we stop it who will make that choise. There are so many people that think they are incharge.
Grob Yung
It is very interesting to see how many people think they know what the Rebbe would do in this situation.
And make statements in the Rebbes name
Kop Doktar
If everyone is serious about the issue, then the solution is quite simple:
Have TWO SBH, one exclusively for men and one exclusive to women. One can be at Montgomery and the other at 770. Security guards can patrol and enforce the seder.
Ideally, the areas will be fenced off with specific entances and professional no non-sense security guards at the entrances.
Enough with band aid solutions!
Areas outside the designated areas should be patrolled by Shomrim, and people acting inappropriately or loitering should be “interviewed”. No reason to let them be comfortable!
Of course this is only if someone is interested in a REAL solution.
cmcm
i like the idea of having it on east New York and kingston. THe Shuk is closed every year during simchas beis unless its erev yom tov. there are no alleyways or front steps for ppl to mingle. or why dont they do it by Wingate like they do on lag baomer??
i hardly see any mingling there…
but for the time being- if you want to experience the simchas beis hashoeva with REAL simcha- go when there’s no music… and just just niggunim and dancing…
On Shlichus
Kop Doktar has a great solution, hope to see good changes :-)
Mendy
What needs to be done is simply to crack some skulls and break some legs of some of these “young and restless” young drecklach and the word will get out to all their drecklach friends that the community means business.
Mendy
What needs to be done is simply to crack some skulls and break some legs of some of these “young and restless” young drecklach and the word will get out to all their drecklach friends that the community means business.
bochrim
please note that hachnosas orchim’s main sleeping headquarters this year in popacks building at 712 crown street is shared with a church see the sign on the schenectedy entrance to that building. whata disgrace to house a church in the first place then for hendel to share it with a church and put innocent bochrim there without knowing about it
a girl
Maybe it would help if girls were treated with respect. Girls are people too! they want to be part of it, not just watch the men dance, party & have a good time! Of course, it wouldn’t be tznius for girls to dance in public. But you men can’t judge,you have to understand where we girls are coming from!
everyone counts
How about simple personal responsibility. See something inappropriate? Say something to the players involved. You live here and have kids? Assert parental responsibility. If you consider this “your” community, act like it is. If you don’t consider it yours, then none of this should bother you.
Any more ideas?
Issue of mingling: the stores should definitely close.
Money loss by the store owners: two booths should be placed per store (one on each side of the street) to represent the stores that would like to remain open.
Negative Behavior: To quote Kop Doktar, “Areas outside the designated areas should be patrolled by Shomrim, and people acting inappropriately or loitering should be “interviewed”.”
VERY NICE.
THE REBBE WANTS THIS AND I DON’T KNOW IF YOU ALL REALIZE THAT THE TZNIUS SITUATION ON CROWN ST. ETC. HAS GOTTEN MUCH BETTER OVER THE YEARS. THINK OF THE OLD DAYS. ANYWAY ANYONE WHO TRIES TO STOP SUCH SIMCHA THAT THE REBBE WANTS, IS USING THE TRAIT OF AMALEK–POURING FREEZING COLD WATER ON THE SIMCHAH! I’M SURE THAT IS WHAT THE REBBE MUST WANT. A LESSENING OF JOY ON SUKKOS, THE YOM TOV OF JOY. GREAT WORK.
thanks for looking for a solution
dear rabbi hecht,
1. although i disagree with your solution, thank you so much for bringing the issues up for discussion.
2. especially after reading the comments to the previous op-eds about “tishrei” it seems that the problems are not so much in the actual dancing area, but at a distance.
3. for years i have thought that it would be a good idea to have a band in the halls at lubavitcher yeshiva for any women who would like to dance. (far away enough to be separate, close enough to be able to co-ordinate comings and goings with parents, siblings etc. attending both events). extra lighting and security patrols on montgomery st to enable people to walk alone between the two would be great.
embarrassed of CH
My daughter who is going off the derech was in CH last year for SBH. She was thoroughly disgusted and won’t ever go again. She said, and this is a quote, “It was a bunch of 12 year old boys puking on the side of the street.”