Students Take Protest Against Teacher’s Firing Public

This morning, all over the Crown Heights neighborhood, residents approached their cars to find a flyer on the windshield protesting the recent firing of a Mashpia in Oholei Torah.

The flyer reads:


Oholei Torah:

We want our Mashpia back

-The Talmidim of Oholei Torah

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10


  • 1. pathetic wrote:

    sorry this is not the way to go AT ALL!
    IMMATURE and NOT bakovodik for bochurim.

    • 2. Come on, wrote:

      And firing their Mashpia IS the way to go????

      Everyone knows Rabbi Sternberg is the best Mashpia out there for today’s Bochurim.

      It’s good that they are spreading true publicity, after what many anonymous comments lied and bashed him.

      These Bochurim are SAVING Oholei Torah by bringing him back, …or else Oholei Torah is “In Der Erd”.


    • 3. You're wrong wrote:

      I think this is EXACTLY the way to go:

      First our Mashpia was being unjustly disgraced by comments filled with lies and exaggerations.
      (Oh, that IS the way to go???)

      And look to where this false media propaganda lead to!


      Because if we don’t, look what happens, WE LOST OUR BEST MASHPIA!

    • 4. Impressed wrote:

      Pay attention, they did it with A LOT of maturity:

      If you read their paper, it was done very neatly, with class (unlike how most “mature” adults perform their outcries).
      They kindly addressed it to the vague “Oholei Torah” instead of embarrassing the one individual who has the one-man-power to do anything in Oholei Torah, without transparency.

      This is a compliment for the Bochurim, that was a VERY BAKOVOIDIKE move. Bochurim should be respected for this, and we should learn from them how to conduct a protest for what we believe in, with a balance of class and consideration for others feelings.

    • 5. to 1 wrote:

      What SHOULD the Bochurim do???
      Just sit there and watch how their Mashpia is being attacked with lies by comments, and then (as a result) THEY LOSE THEIR BEST MASHPIA!!!

    • 6. to "pathetic" wrote:

      It’s pathetic that there are those who condemn those who are actually fighting for the truth.

      Maybe YOU do something for the truth too (oh, and you’ll do it the right way).

      לא תעמוד על דם רעך

    • 8. Milhouse wrote:

      What SHOULD the Bochurim do???

      The Rebbe was very clear on this. They should keep the sedorim, they should say tehilim and pray that the hanholoh should see reason, but under no circumstances should they take action against the hanholoh.

    • 9. To Milhouse wrote:

      “They should keep the Sdorim”
      What Sdorim?!
      They took away our Mashpia who is would teach me every day.

      And besides, we all DID keep the Sdorim (times), this was all OUTSIDE Seder. But even the actual Sidrei Chassidus were a joke with out the real man

  • 10. Look how bad are generation is getting wrote:

    this is not the way the Rebbe suggested to protest against Hanholo, the Rebbe always said if you have a problem you can say Tehilim or pack your bags up and leave

    • 11. Your Wrong wrote:

      Hanhala did not FIRE him Hanhala was backing him. The administration fired him the rebbe never said you can’t protest the administration (do you ever ask for a tuition break…).

    • 14. K wrote:

      Define “hanhala”!

      Does it include THEIR MASHPIA?? I say YES!

      Does it include the shnorer who collects money for the Yeshiva? I say NO!

      Well, in THIS case the bochurim are supporting their Hanhola/Mashpia, and protesting the administrative schnorer of the Yeshiva.

      Not everyone on the yeshiva staff is “hanhala” or else bochurim would need to accept without question “orders” from the janitor, this is poshut.

      No one ever made bochurim into mindless robots without self opinions.

    • 15. Milhouse wrote:

      K, “hanholoh” is not a mysterious word. It’s an ordinary Hebrew word, which in English means “administration”. The janitor is not the hanholoh, and nor are the teachers. Both the janitors and the teachers are equally employed by the hanholoh, and subject to its authority.

    • 16. K wrote:

      The “administrator” is employed by the school, just as the janitor. In fact, “administrator” is a fancy name for fund-raiser, aka meshulach, aka schnorer. A position that has less to do with the students than the janitor.

      You are confusing administrator with Menahel. The true hanhaleh are those in position of menahel (aka principal, and in a chassidic school the menahel position is shared with the mashpia).

  • 19. The rebbe said many times wrote:

    The rebbe said many times bochurim should not challenge hanholohs decision.

    • 20. a curios reader wrote:

      who is the hanhalah??????! its the board not the hanhala ruchni or the mashpi’im that fired him. they dont care for the good of the bocherim just what makes the school looks good and gets full
      what would the rebbe think? you tell me

    • 21. mashpia wrote:

      The Rebbe will tell you one thing has nothing to do with the other, the bochurim could be right but it’s not their business, if they have an issue they can speak to the hanholo or other mashpiim, but they have no right to get involved, and you can look in all the sichos starting from what I remember, in 5741 with the 12 pesukim booklets

    • 22. Hanhala is in deep trouble wrote:

      Did they ask Rabbanim before they jumped in and fired two devoted educators? How about lawyers to see if they are opening themselves up to lawsuits? It seems to me they have done more harm than good. Now deal with it. Personally, I think the bachurin did the right ghing. Aren’t we to always seek out justice???

    • 24. Milhouse wrote:

      It may be that the hanholoh are in deep trouble, but that is not the bochurim’s business. And no, we are not always to seek out justice, there are other priorities as well; הלא שמוע מזבח טוב

      Bochurim in Tomchei Temimim have a duty of kabolas ol to the hanholoh, which takes priority over their sense of justice. If they believe the hanholoh has done something wrong they may approach them respectfully and ask them to change their minds, but the Rebbe made it clear that they are not allowed to protest, no matter how wrong the hanholoh may be. Let other people give the hanholoh mussar, it’s not their job. If they want to obey the Rebbe, they have to accept the hanholoh’s decision even if they think it was very wrong.

      And no, when I was a tomim I didn’t appreciate or understand this, so I completely understand why these bochurim act as they do. Kaboloas ol is a very difficult avodah, especially when it conflicts with a young person’s keen sense of justice. But difficult or not, it’s what the Rebbe demanded.

    • 26. to Milhouse wrote:

      if this was the rebbes yeshivah, the way the rebbe would run it then the bocherim will have kabolas ol. If a terrorist takes over a yeshivah we should all just sit back and do nothing? have u ever had kabolas ol urself? do u know how hard it is to someone u care about get his life ruined and u sit back idly? and yes if it wa the REBBE’S YESHIVAH they would!

    • 27. Milhouse wrote:

      If it’s not the Rebbe’s yeshivah then whose yeshivah is it, and why are you there? I know exactly how hard kabolas ol is. It’s very hard, and when I was a tomim I found it hard too, and usually did not do the right thing. I understand how the temimim feel, but the Rebbe’s instructions are clear.

      There is no claim that the yeshivah has been occupied by unauthorized strangers. There is no question that R Rosenfeld and the current board were duly appointed to run the yeshivah. Thus they are the ones whom the bochurim must obey. Whether they’re doing the right thing themselves isn’t relevant; even if they are wrong the bochurim must accept it. I’m not saying it’s easy.

    • 28. to Milhouse wrote:

      hanhalah is a very broad term and no one can tell me exactly what the rebbe meant. I asked a Magid shiur who works in OT and he said that the time he knows of when the rebbe said to listen to hanhalah with kabolas ol was about the gashmius of yeshivah (not having breakfast). who said that if the the mashpi’im and menahal of yeshivah (who were also hired by the
      Rebbe) all agree that the guy who raises the money and runs the technical part of yeshivah may have made a mistake, why are we not to back that and do something about it? its not about having bad food to eat, its about the farther of certian bocherim!

    • 30. CHLEAKS.COM wrote:



      Go Meshichistim! YOU ROCK

      Shalom Bayis problems, not getting fed at home?




  • 31. REALLY wrote:

    so what do u propose the bochurim do?! i think they are right! kol hakavod! the whole firing etc is all wrong!!!

    • 32. Milhouse wrote:

      I don’t propose; the Rebbe proposes and demands, that they accept the apparent injustice quietly and go on. It’s not their job to right all the wrongs in the world.

      That doesn’t mean they shouldn’t respectfully approach the hanholoh and ask why this was done, and try to explain why it seems wrong to them. Maybe the hanholoh will accept that they were mistaken, and everyone will be satisfied; or maybe the bochurim will accept the hanholoh’s explanation, and again everyone will be satisfied. But if there is no meeting of the minds, the bottom line is that the hanholoh gives the orders and the temimim must obey.

  • 34. Rivkie wrote:

    In yidishket “the end doesn’t justify the means”. Rabbi Sternberg might have ment well and it seems like he is well liked. Unfortunately he made some grave mistakes. Someone like that needs to get deprogrammed. Kol hakavod to the administration for taking their responsiblity seriously.

    • 35. Anonymous wrote:

      not sure what came first… your lack of integrity or lack of information.

      you are obviously misinformed
      this workshop is not one that “programs” you so there is no “deprograming”

      you’ll all be hanging your heads in shame when the light comes through in the end. where will be then? will you apologize publicly for your hateful comments?

    • 37. moshe der g wrote:

      NOPE you have your information wrong this is a mind control cult that all people that went need some sort of deprogramming some might just need one session with a physocolgist and some might need months

      this is from a medical doctor i have spoken to that is in this field

      and i am sure the administration of OT also consulted doctors as the rebbe would say a rofeh yedid and if people think otherwise do your research on landmak etc etc

    • 38. moshe der g wrote:

      you’re funny.
      can’t wait to hear your thoughts when the stuff you’ve been brainwashed to believe is proven wrong…

  • 39. Huh? wrote:

    We bash Hanhollah on public forms, we stand up for the bochurim against hanholla, then we expect our students to do well in the system???

  • 41. mashpia wrote:

    how many times did the Rebbe, speak, scream, that bochurim should not get involved in Machlokes etc.

    כמה פעמים צעק הרבי, נשיא דורנו, שאסור לבחורים להתערב במחלוקת,

    • 42. to 16 wrote:

      And how many times does it say in Halacha NOT TO FIRE a Mechanech unless ther’s a Psak from a Beis Din?

      Answer: I found 3 Mekoirois so far, and I’m sure there is more.

    • 43. Milhouse wrote:

      What’s that got to do with it? I’m sure you can find more than 3 mekoros, and you may be 100% right that what the hanholoh did was incorrect, but it doesn’t affect the Rebbe’s repeated and emphatic position that the bochurim should not get involved.

  • 46. Yitzchok Halevi wrote:

    You can’t be untruthful to young people. They see right through it. They recognize a situation, that affects them, that makes their Mashpia a korbon for misdeeds of higher ups.
    The Board is hoping that it will now go away. It won’t because the bochurim won’t let the injustice stand. That’s hoe young people are, when they see sheker.
    The Board has no choice, but to reconvene and address the issues in a truthful and transparent manner.

  • 47. noooooooooooooo wrote:

    this is exactly what COTS want they are destroying us from the inside.

    pls pls brothers and sisters lets pray for the soul of our community.

    • 48. ignorant wrote:

      you are sadly misinformed.
      I can’t wait to see your face when the truth comes out…

  • 49. netflicks wrote:

    i was worried bec netflicks is pulling top gun of its instant streaming but to be honest this is more entertaining!!

  • 51. to #2 wrote:

    WHo are you saying should pack their bags and leave Reb Yossel Rosenfeld who fell under money pressure and fired the meshpiha that the boys felt so connected to??? If all the boys are standing and fighting for Reb sternberg that shows something big!! There is somebody who they feel they can learn from! And actually talk with!!!!

    • 52. Really wrote:

      I want to see what Oholei Torah will look like one day after Rabbi Rosenfeld steps aside to let Nachman Schapiro run the school, thank G-d my kids are done with this, but boy oh boy, I dread to live that day. So will you, if you care that is.

  • 53. sad day wrote:


    not in my book.

    more then half of them have been posting on face book all night, the other half are just chilling and hanging out.

    if they mean it they should all be siting in zal, and at night go fabreng with SS. i cant believe this is the way the bochrim are behaving.

    but then again what can you expect? OT has only hired Maspiam who politically are Yechinics, they allow all type of baloney to go on. Mendel Hendel although he has his own yeshivah, still controls all that goes on, including the new maschist Mivtza by that kid Mintz.

    the only boys that go to OT zal are the ones that couldn’t care less they only go because its a launching pad for shlichus, the first 3 shiurim have 30 boys, and shit daled has 165, what does that tell you?

    hey OT, the chickens are coming home to roost.

  • 55. Esther wrote:

    These bochurim truly look up to Rabbi Sternberg. He is a mashpia par excelance! I know it, from experience with me son!!! The bochurim did indeed try to go about it to the best of their ability, getting through to the “hanhala”, but that didn’t work!! So, please don’t knock the fact that they went about it in this manner- WHAT ELSE ARE THEY SUPPOSE TO DO, WHEN THEY WITNESSED WITH THEIR OWN EYES THAT THEIR MOST AMAZING EMESDIKE MASHPIA WAS JUST TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM!!!!!!!


    • 56. Milhouse wrote:

      What else are they supposed to do? If their best effort to get through to the hanholoh didn’t work, then they are supposed to accept the decision and return to the zal. That is what they are supposed to do. They are chayolei beis dovid, and soldiers do not get to second-guess their orders.

    • 57. K wrote:

      Define “hanhala”!

      Does it include THEIR MASHPIA?? I say YES!

      Does it include the shnorer who collects money for the Yeshiva? I say NO!

      Well, in THIS case the bochurim are supporting their Hanhola/Mashpia, and protesting the administrative schnorer of the Yeshiva.

      Not everyone on the yeshiva staff is “hanhala” or else bochurim would need to accept without question “orders” from the janitor, this is poshut.

      No one ever made bochurim into mindless robots without self opinions.

    • 58. Milhouse wrote:

      K, “hanholoh” is not a mysterious word. It’s an ordinary Hebrew word, which in English means “administration”. The janitor is not the administration, and nor are the teachers. Both the janitors and the teachers are employed by the administration.

    • 59. Esther wrote:

      Say Tehilim, that’s the only thing that the Rebbe allowed. Don’t like it, you can join the cult “Call of the Shofar”.

    • 60. K wrote:

      Rabbi Rosenfeld is not a Schnorer, he IS Oholei Torah for over 50 years, for 30 years he was Menahel Ruchni and Manahel Gashmi, now he delegated some authority to others, and by error in judgment Nachman slipped in.

      Rabbi Rosenfeld is the one who won’t sleep at night if the payroll is in danger of not being met, Nachman couldn’t care if the whole Yeshiva burns down as long as you leck his tes ches to get a plum Shlichus. So give me a break,

      I’ve been around from day one that Rabbi Rosenfeld (1960) came to oholei Torah and I watch his Mesiras Nefesh every day, unlike Nachman whom I had when he started (1973) as well and besides for being a bluffer and politician he’s good for not much more.

      All he can do is hurt Bochrim who are not his TL’ers and incite the others to every Machlokes in Lubavitch. First he tells them Reb Yoel is Chazer treif, then he runs to sit next to him so he can get a picture. Then he punishes Bochrim for going to the Ohel for Shabbos, then he makes sure to be noticed all the time by the Ohel.

      Bluff, bluff and more bluff.

  • 61. OT alumni graduate wrote:

    This is extremely embarrassing for myself as a graduate of OT! True you’re entitled to your opinion, you should do whatever it takes to get your mashpia back, but this is not the way to do things, if you have a problem you can sit down and discuss it like a normal human being with them, I am still a bocher myself and yet I have come to the realization that hanhala be it ruchni or gashmi are not out to get you.

    I can’t say I agree with the way that was done, however, whatever you are doing is even worse. It is stupid foolish immature to start spreading your “fight” with The administration, with the whole community. Remember their children out there to see this article what will they thinking?!

    The rebbe always always said that you have A problem with what the hanhala dose say tehilim for them! (don’t take that out of context)

  • 63. Neighbor wrote:

    This is unbelievable. Bochurim have no right and do not know all the details. This is not a way to go. OT should kick out the instigator of the joke. Since when do kids/students have a say in the way a s hool is run? You don’t like it let your parents either take you out of the school, see if the parents can change something in the school or start your own school.
    The way the Bochurim are doing is very cheap, and childish.
    So please grow up and get back I to the classroom. I understand that this is FUN and easier than a blatt gemorah

    • 64. Yitzchok Halevi wrote:

      In other words “Children should be seen, not heard”. You don’t respect young people much, particularly when they point out how hypocritial we can be?

  • 65. Yechix3 wrote:

    I doubt you’ll print this, but chanting Yechi three times is the biggest cult I have ever seen.

  • 66. CH wrote:

    It is not a hefker velt. Throw out a few trouble makers, let them pay registration fee to come back, and this whole color war game is over. It should be noted on their records that they were thrown out and it can effect shlichus

  • 68. Rebbe said ... wrote:

    I love how everyone is saying that the “rebbe said ” bochurim should not get involved and the rebbe this and that but the rebbe also said that you need to listen to the rabbanim and the rabbanim said that you can’t fire anyone or use this to advance personal agenda !!!!!!!!

    • 69. Milhouse wrote:

      That’s the hanholoh’s cheshbon. They have to account to the Rebbe for their decision, not to the temimim

  • 72. Sruly C wrote:

    This is the way they celebrate rabbi Gerlitzkys party placing papers on windshields.

    I guess banners across the bathroom windows are next.

  • 73. a bochur in oholei torah wrote:

    we have NOTHING to do with COTS and ew just want our mashpia back we DONT work for anyone not even rabbi sternberg anyone could ask him and thats what he will tell you!!!!!!! everyone else can and SHOULD mind they’re own business and if you whant to tell us your opinion you can email it to

    • 75. That's right wrote:

      We are not working for Rabbi Sternberg or anyone else, he doesn’t even know that we did this because he doesn’t check this website. (he knows of course from seeing the cars on the street).

      We are working for ourselves, for the benefit of ourselves and for the benefit of Oholei Torah.

      We are Sach Hakol getting Oholei Torah to retract a move that was DUMB for their own school.

      This is not about whether COTS is right or wrong, that’s the Rabonim’s business.
      This is about OUR Mashpia, and that’s OUR business!

    • 76. Milhouse wrote:

      To “that’s right”, is there some ambiguity in the Rebbe’s instructions to temimim, that they must obey the hanholoh and may not engage in any kind of protest against it?

    • 77. shuir daled bochur wrote:

      Millhouse. Before doing anything i consulted with senior mashpim (who the rebbe told us to listen to) i asked if this protest is in violation of what the rebbe told us to have kabolos ol to hanhola’s decision. He told me that writing letters and making requests in a peaceful manner is not prikas ol

    • 78. Milhouse wrote:

      Writing polite letters to the hanholoh themselves is not prikas ol. Spreading them all over the neighborhood is open rebellion. You know the hanholoh’s address; putting your letter on people’s windshields means it’s not really addressed to the hanholoh at all, but to the drivers and passersby, to rally them against the hanholoh. And the Rebbe said you may not do that.

      Everyone has the right to ask questions, if they don’t understand something. לא הביישן למד. Maybe if you approach the hanholoh politely with your questions, they will explain themselves and you will understand that they did right. Or who knows, maybe they will hear your arguments and be convinced that you are right; ומתלמידי יותר מכולם. But neither of these alternatives can result from a public campaign.

  • 79. Anonymous wrote:

    Just accept their decision!
    He did something wrong, he must pay for his actions.

  • 81. Kol Hakavod to the Bochurim! wrote:

    They know injustice when they see it and they are speaking up!

  • 82. Shliach wrote:

    Teire Tmimim since the days of the founding of Tomchei Tmimim there were rules, regulations and occurences that were not to the Tmimim’s likings. Each Nosi is his time reminded them of their place and what their job is..learning Torah. Parents could possibly appeal to hanholos but Tmimim are to be busy learning and not campaigning for their agenda, as serious and important at it may be.
    I have such a letter from the Rebbe to Talmidim HaShluchim in a certain yeshiva who arrived ready to make great inroads and improvements on the situation, and it did need them. The answer was swift and tzu di zach: they were sent to learn and be a dugma and not to make decisions or changes. That is the job of the hanholo.
    Do what the Rebbe expects of you and your cause will be taken care of, if that is what is for the best.
    Moshiach NOW

    • 83. Shliach wrote:

      The Rebbe ends that letter that if the Bochrim don’t like it they can leave.

  • 84. My Take wrote:

    It is not a secret that Rabbi Rosenfeld Senior has been conducting marathon meetings for days on end looking into all aspects of this situation. Personally, I may not agree with how it was done, but my take is that there is more to this than meets the eye, and he is sitting on some information that caused him and the Directors to make this decision — info that we and the bochrim are not privy to. Outsiders always assume they “know,” but that is not usually the case.

  • 85. OTU wrote:

    This alleged, ‘internal investigation’ done by Rabbi rosenfeld, with unnamed experts in tow, and led to the firing of two beloved mechanchim, has no more legitimacy then those done by CHW. Bottom line, if by your own admission, you’ve failed to put the right mashpim in our ZAL. Then how are you competent enough to know if you should remove them!? Show some transparency with your actions, this is a case of dinnei nefashos, where are your 23 dayanim?!The reason you have the biggest zal in north america, is because bochurim want pure chinuch that isnt influenced by outside sources, eg anonymous posts on websites. If you remove our mashpim becuase you buckle under pressure from haters, then you are no better a school then any secular university. The rebbe said terumah 5748 that in all matters one must go through and listen to the Badatz. Our elected bais din, signed a psak din, forbidding people to use COTS against people, specifically educators. So the rebbes yeshiva is now officially directing itself off blogs, and not that of the bais din. Wonderful…

    • 86. OTU wrote:

      And who made you a member of the 23 Chavrei Sanhedrin?

      And FYI, the rebbe specifically told the Badatz to butt out from the Chinuch system in CH. Check your facts before you display your ignorance.

  • 87. OTU wrote:

    As the rebbe tolds us. ‘WHEN IT HURTS, SCREAM!!’ this campaign is not chv’s against the hanhola’s hayeshiva. It is against the decision taken by the board. In private conversations with senior mashpim and roshei misvta, they all think its ridiculous that the board has taken away whats good for us, only to bolster their own image and to buckle under pressure

    • 90. shuir daled bochur wrote:

      Millhouse. I also had the same reservations you did. Look in thr hosofos of chelek 14 for 15 elul what the rebbe says. I asked very very respected mashpim what does the rebbe mean by kabbolas ol to hanhola, is it the board, or the mashpim/menahlem? In their replies, i was told, that writing letters of request, is not a violation of the rebbes will.

    • 91. Milhouse wrote:

      You’re right, that writing polite letters requesting the hanholoh to change its mind, or asking reasons for its decision (תורה היא וללמוד אני צריך) is fine. But that’s not what we are discussing. If you want to write to the hanholoh, put it in an envelope and slip it under their door, or put it in their mailbox, or put a stamp on it and send it to their address. Or email it to them, with no BCC to anyone who isn’t directly involved.

    • 92. shuir daled bochur wrote:

      Your right. We tried settling this in a diplomatic manner, which is why we attempted to speak to rabbi rosenfeld. But he refused to speak to us. If you look at this objectively, the outcry on blogs and websites, combined with phone calls and emails from rightfully concerned parents is what led to our mashpia being fired. We figured if our yeshiva is going to cheapen itself and be dictated to by public opinion, then we will try to change public opinion

  • 93. from a parent wrote:

    As a parent who sent all my children to Oholei Torah, it’s fair to say that Rabbi Rosenfeld is one of the best out there and continues to do such an amazing job running one of the best institutions in the world. However I will point out the following: Has it ever occurred to you that people make mistakes? The dismissal was done by the board, led by Rabbi Joseph Rosenfeld. Their utmost concern is to fill the seats in zal. A lot of pressure came forth from from the community and other yeshivas, pushing for a strong statement. It was this that led them to feel the need to fire him. It makes sense that someone (even as good as Rabbi Rosenfeld) would be a little rash under so much pressure resulting in firing him without doing extensive research with the students best intentions at heart.

    As someone who got to know Rabbi Sternberg personally over the years, I can testify that he is a great Mashpia and has helped my kids tremendously. After scanning through the previous comments I can see that the majority of people who dislike Rabbi Sternberg and attack the bocherim for making a bold move by taking matters into their own hands, are people that do not know him personally and are just basing their opinion on what others have said in the media. I cannot stress to you enough how good he has been and could be for the bocherim. I strongly recommend doing you own research and speak to people who have experienced him first hand.

    Furthermore, being that the dismissal was done by the board without the opinion of the hanhalah ruchni (I know personally that they are behind Rabbi Sternberg all the way), they have not even considered hiring a new Mashpia or amending the situation, neither have they addressing the bocherim at all. In the email sent to us parents it expresses how they dismissed him without giving any plan for the future! Even if you will say he should leave, if they really had the bocherims best at heart would they just get rid of someone good and not even try to correct the problem? Which is why I have come to the conclusion that this is a rash decision made hastily under pressure.

    To those that are against the bocherim acting and trying to save there Mashpia: these are not kids we are dealing with, they are intelligent 20 year olds who are the future of Lubavitch. They know almost as much as us parents (and sometimes even more) about what is good for them spiritually and physically.

    I appreciate all those bocherim who are sticking up for themselves and for what’s right, not just buckling under pressure and giving in without reason. I wish you the best of luck and hope you are successful.
    If only the parents could do something similar.

    Kol hakovod and hatzlachah rabah

    • 94. Parent wrote:

      The Rebbe unequivocally came out against such behaviour. That should and must be the only guidline. Nice to hear that 20 year olds are mature, they have been in Lubavitch for 20 years, and should be totally bottel to the Rebbe’s horo’os. If not, chas v’sholom, m’darf gut tappen in peckel..

  • 95. To all those screaming Rebbe wrote:

    Yes, the Rebbe did say that bochurim should not get involved.
    However, the rebbe also said that Hanhola should go to the rabonim before letting staff go.

    Rabbi Osdoba, does not want to voice an opinion for personal reasons, and rightfully so. (he happens to be a noigeah Bedavar in this case)
    Rabbi Braun and Shvei left numerous voice mails for rabbi rosenfeld, and to date, rabbi rosenfeld has not returned their call.

    no matter which rabonim you side with, if a rav calls you, you need to respond. if you do not agree with a particular rov, you still need to respond especially if you represent a moised etc.

    Rabbi Rosenfeld, I admire you for all you have done for the yeshivah over the years, however, in this case, i think you reacted too haste (contrary to your letter), and you need to find a way to fix this before it is too late.

    • 96. Milhouse wrote:

      Yes, the Rebbe did say that bochurim should not get involved.
      However, the rebbe also said that Hanhola should go to the rabonim before letting staff go.

      You’re right; but it’s irrelevant. I haven’t written a word here defending the hanholoh. My only point is that the bochurim must not get involved, even if the hanholoh is wrong. Let the rabbonim handle it.

  • 97. The Rebbe? wrote:

    In Lubavitch there was a conflict between Reb Groinem, the most revered Mashpia in Lubavitch and Reb Leizer Der Kantorchik who was in charge of Gashmius.

    Reb Groinem felt that Reb Leizer was not kind enough to the Bochrim (to put it mildly), and he went to the Rebbe Rashab to complain that it is completely out of hand. He went so far as to say, its either me or him, in other words, that if Reb Leizer continues to torture the Bochrim in this way, he can’t continue being Mashpia.

    The Rebbe responded with one word: Du! = You can go.

    So don’t play this Hanholo Gashmis vs. Ruchnis game. The Hanholo Gashmis is no less important than the Hanholo Ruchnis, especially when in this case 1) the Hanholo Gashmis has family connections. 2) The Menahel Gashmi is by far more a Chasidisher Yid and by far has more mesiras Nefesh for Oholei Torah (the Rebbe’s personal Moisad) than anyone else. He has the most experience in the position of Menahel (both Gashmi & Ruchni) for over 50 years, and has never been known as someone who acts out of haste. He also had the best teacher and guide, the unforgettable Reb Michoel Teitlebaum. And we all know what Reb Michoel would do.

    The Bochrim can only claim to be Tmimim when they do as the Rebbe said to do, say Tehilim, otherwise they can go to Kent State University and riot there.

    There has to be a solution, some wise men must get together and figure this out, but these public protests and harassment will only take the Bochrim even lower and will destroy our entire Chinuch system (whatever is still left of it).

  • 98. to Rabbi Kotlarsky and board wrote:

    When will you please dismiss the shluchim who went to COTS and encouraged their community members to go as well? Is this the path your shluchim should be bringing other yidden down, from the kochos of the Rebbe?

  • 100. The Rebbe? wrote:

    I challenge anyone to produce a letter from the Rebbe “that Hanhola should go to the rabonim before letting staff go”. To the best of my knowledge, when the Crown Heights Beth Din wanted to create a Vaad Hachinuch (in 1986, as was written in their contract!!) to supervise and control the Yeshivos, the Rebbe sharply condemned it by asking the Rabbonim, who made you the Mechanchim of Crown Heights? And the idea was buried faster than it was born.

    Yes, the Rebbe did say that when an employee is fired from a school, he has the right to call the hanholo to a Din Torah, but nowhere does it say that anybody has the right to mix into the Hanholo’s decisions, certainly not by commanding them what to do or not to do.

    The Rebbe used as an example as to why a Hanholo must have its own independence to run their own Moisad without outside interference, with the following story (one of Rabbi Gluckowsky’s favorites):

    The Frierdiker Rebbe (who was the Menahel Poiel of Tomchei Tmimim at the time) once sent a Bochur out of Yeshiva, the Bochur felt that it was unjustified, so behind the FR’s back he went to his father, the Rebbe Rashab, and he cried his heart out and convinced the Rebbe that he was not guilty, so the Rebbe ordered him back into Yeshiva.

    When the FR heard that his father the Rebbe overruled his decision, he walked into his father’s holy room and he put the keys down on the table, saying: Since I am the Menahel, but you, the Rebbe overruled me, so I have to accept your decision, but I cannot run the Yeshiva this way, so I am hereby submitting my resignation.

    The Rebbe Rashab agreed, and he retracted his previous order, and he accepted the FR’s position.

    From this the Rebbe learns, that a Moisad, especially a Yeshiva, must be run by one Menahel only, and everybody else, students and employees, must abide by their rule, and no one can override the Menahel’s decisions.

    Igros Kodesh #2607, 3541 & many more.

    • 101. This post might help you, might not wrote:

      Here are 3 references that a Mosad Chinuch CANNOT fire a Mechanech unless they get the Psak of a Beis Din:

      אגרות משה חו”מ ח”א סי’ ו
      אגרות משה חו”מ ח”ב סי’ ז’
      פסק”ד ירושלים, דיני ממונות ובירורי יוחסין ע’ קעו

      PDF of the Mekoirois:

    • 102. shuir daled bochur wrote:

      The menahel is rabbi nachman shapiro Shlit’a. Did he approve the firing? NO! He made a point of announcing this morning, that the hanhola stands together with the bochurim, in the pursuit of their best interests. So lets please listen to the menahel

    • 103. Correction to #80 wrote:

      Is the Igrois Moishe from the Rebbe? The Rebbe holds of Tomchei Tmimim and the hierarchy of Tomchei Tmimim and the Seder of Tomchei Tmimim a lot more than you are willing to accept.

      Disrupting a whole Yeshiva and inciting Bochrim to help disrupt the Seder even if you don’t like what the Menahel does, as the Rebbe Rashab felt that the FR was possibly wrong, still he agreed that the actual Menahel has the last word. Period.

      Just read the letters I referred to, and many others like them and you’ll see the Rebbe’s clear position, not the Igrois Moishe’s. In those letters the Rebbe explains simply that there cannot be public discord amongst the staff, regardless of the wrong position they may have taken.

      And if it’s true that Nachman Schapiro supported the Bochrim’s revolution, then I think that he can no longer be a Mashpia/Menahel. Period.

      I ask you, if I decided to incite Bochrim not to go to Nachman’s Shiur (and there are many good reasons to do so, you know what I mean, and you know that nobody would blink an eye), and they all agreed with me and listened to me, do you think that this would be tolerated by the Rebbe? Absolutely not!

      When the Bochrim revolted against Reb Shmuel Levitin, who was the Mashpia/Menahel Ruchni of 770 (in 1956, and the Rebbe subtly accepted the revolt), all the Bochrim that were involved were punished by the Rebbe.

      Hefkeirus is not tolerated in Tomchei Tmimim.

  • 104. Wu Zenen Di Bucherim wrote:

    I remember by the fight with Barry gurari the rebbe asked publicly ” Wu Zenen Di Bucherim ”
    some times buchirim have to get involved

    • 105. Wu Zenen Di Bucheri wrote:

      And when was that?

      Perhaps you are confusing what the Rebbe said privately “vos velen zogen di Bochrim” the Rebbe NEVER supported Bochrim who got involved in public matters, even when it applied to them. The Rebbe actually condemned it every time it happened.

    • 106. Wu Zenen Di Bucheri wrote:

      Just to list a few times 1) 5716 when the Yeshiva played Hatikva. 2) 5730 when the Bochrim got involved in Crown Heights politics. 3) 5734 Sternberg vs. Oholei Torah (1). 4) 5741 Bochrim vs. Dovid Raskin – 12 Pesukim.

      The Rebbe never said that the Bochrim are wrong in the content of their argument, The Rebbe was in pain at the noise the Bochrim made and in most cases he punished them as well.

  • 107. Correction to #80 wrote:

    I wrote “especially when in this case 1) the Hanholo Gashmis has family connections.”

    It should read: “especially when in this case 1) the Hanholo RUCHNIS has family connections.”

  • 109. Stupid people!! wrote:

    Honestly, some people commenting are plain STUPID and DUMB!!! Beyond understanding!!
    Bud out, buddy, and live your life. Get off the internet and do something instead of commenting “I dont think the rebbe would have liked it…”

  • 110. the bochurim are rightly concerned that wrote:

    these amazing talnmeted devoted mashpiim will be quickly hired by another lucky moised!!

  • 112. mixed up wrote:


  • 113. Cult Mishigas wrote:

    The commenter above, Yechix3 (December 31, 2013 11:17 am), is the most correct of all so far with what he wrote, “chanting Yechi three times is the biggest cult I have ever seen.”

    Actually though chanting Yechi even one time already demonstrates that a person is a brainwashed cultist. If COTS or any other treatment would have an effect to deprogram Meshichists it would be a major step in the right direction.

  • 116. Moishe wrote:

    First of all there are no more mosdos of the rebbe they today are all for profit institutions run by family’s and OT and DETROIT were the first joseph Rosenfeld is a great admnistrater but what does have to do with chinuch if he fired the employees it’s only a fainance move nothing with ideology

  • 117. hold on wrote:

    which Rabbi said not to ignore the cries of the children?Was that the alter Rebbe?These young men are crying for some justice and all of you say they should just shut up and let others handle it?Wow-if there is any injustice I think it is with those who refuse to listen to the hurt bochurim who do not understand all this and are in shock.You don’t realize that this bitterness may linger on with them for years and Gd forbid may impact their future????Hello, anyone listening to them????Have you seen some of the older men who become disillusioned with many things later on?IT IS BECAUSE THEY WERE DISMISSED AND SQUASHED and told it is none of their business!!Yeah, feel good about this, people!

  • 118. yitzchok teitelbaum wrote:

    clarification to this whole fiasco? The Rebbe Rashab when laying down the rules for setting up the Yeshiva wrote: “there should be two Hanhalos one for gasmiyous and one ruchniyous. The Hanhala gashmiyous should not mix in to the the hanhala ruchniyous at all.
    Question: Who fired these rebbies from the yeshiva, was it the hanhalah ruchniyous?

  • 119. Very uplifting to see wrote:

    That this young generation has a moral balance and klorkeit that unfortunately the older guys just don’t have, because of political pressure.

    Good for the boys!

    If this is our future, we are in good hands, BH!

  • 120. CH observer wrote:

    Rabbi Rosenfeld absolutely did the right thing. I am sure that it was not something that he did lightly. Rabbi Rosenfeld had the courage to make the tight decision.

  • 121. SoCal Shliach wrote:

    Although the discussion In this thread relates to whether the bochrim acted appropriately, a subject I’m not going to comment on.
    However, all those non-bochrim reading this need to ask themselves and their children’s hanholo

    Is this the first time we see major dysfunctional activity at Our yeshivos??

    We all know the high standard of “hanholo” in ULY and 770. We are all aware of how dedicated, effective and in touch with the bochrim they are/were.

    Those in the know remember the upheaval a few years ago in oholei Torah that resulted In the resignation of EP, perhaps the most effective menahel OT ever had. And the one who made the most difference. And others. Due to the insistence of another (NS) member of the hanholo.
    We Remember well the disaster that insued in Morristown when MH cleaned shop and got rid of, again, the most talented and effective chavrei hanholo.
    Both Morrostown and OT have never returned to their glory.
    So yes, the Rebbe did instruct the bochrim to respect whatever hanholo they merit to be under
    But we adults and parents have a right to scream, yell and demand that the hanholo of our children’s yeshivos act decently and in the best interest of the talmidim.
    And that they should act like mashpiim
    Quite frankly I’m convinced they aren’t
    I’m convinced that ULY and OT etc are not quality institutions of learning and that is only the fault of the said “hanholo”

  • 122. YOUR ALL WRONG!!! wrote:

    Bochurim are mixing in because the parents did not listen to the the Rebbe either. He insisted (i have the source) that parents ONLY get involved with their children’s Chinuch discretely and not to scream or print objections in public – yet they did not. So the Bochurim are following suit and are also defying the Rebbe as well. Like father like son.

  • 123. started wrote:

    why is everyone quiet about the Mishichist, if this group would not have indoctored the youngsters over the years we would not be in this situation. Focus on Torah , Chassidus and good deeds THAT WILL BRING MOSHIACH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 124. Student of O.T. To Milhouse!! wrote:

    Anybody that sits on their computer and writes the amount of comments you do on this website, has abseloutly no right to preach about KABOLAS OL AND CHAYOLEI BEIS DOVID… So why don’t you go pick up a Sefer or something

  • 126. Rabbi sterenberg the best wrote:

    Rabbi sterenberg is the best mashpiha my son is bh married today , but Afew years ago he was my San mashpiha,he loved him so much , he is a person that care a lot for his Talmudic,in my son daiting parsha , he helped my son a lot ,a chasidishe yungerman , a very special mashpiha,


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