Posted to Chabad News on

Third Branch of ‘Moshiach Worshippers’ Opens in AU – Put in Cherem

From the YouTUBE video.

MELBOUREN, Australia [CHI] — Hosting a ‘Seudah’ on the fast day of the 10th of Teves, the day Jerusalem was besieged, is an example of Mishechism gone seriously awry. But go film it and proudly post it on YouTUBE for the world to see, that will get you put in Cherem [publicly excommunicated]. In Australia.

A group of such radicals got together on this fast day in Melbourne Australia and proclaimed that “The Lubavitcher Rebbe King Moshiach has announced that the time has come to fill our mouths with laughter and our tongues with songs of joy because the Redemption and Moshiach are here and fasts must turn into feasts.” One of the men appearing in the video, wearing a clown hat, stated that “for 36 years I heard Rabbi Groner say before any Taanis that Chas Veshalom Moshiach doesn’t come will be a fast, but HELLO Moshiach came already, there is no fast.”

Another man quoted the Sefer Besuras Hageulah as he held a kiddush cup in his hand and said “a Jew has to admit, agree, desire and proclaim that Moshiach is already here, by having this Seudah here, this Seudas Yom Tov we are agreeing, desiring and proclaiming to the whole world… otherwise why would we be celebrating this.”

They then made ‘Kidush’ and all the families together sat down for a full meal. But that would not be complete without some singing, dancing, and some swimming too!

This group joins in with Crown Heights’ very own Sara Kanevsky who hosted such ‘seudos’ on fast days in the woman’s section of 770. None of the local Rabbonim publicly shunned her.

In response to this Rabbi Zvi Hirsch Telsner, Shliach in Melbourne issued the following letter:

Sunday January 10, 2010
24 Tevet 5770


It has been brought to my attention that on the 10th of Teves (Sunday December 27th) this year, a day on which our Rabbis decreed that we are obligated to fast, as stated in Shulchan Oruch (Code of Jewish Law Ch. 121), a small group of individuals organised a festive meal at which they ate, drank and rejoiced. They subsequently publicised their actions by posting a film of the festivities on international websites, together with the message and implication that such behaviour is highly commendable and is connected with the coming of the Moshiach.

I therefore wish to state unequivocally and to emphasise in the strongest manner that the above actions, being as they are contrary to the explicit rulings of Chazal and Shulchan Oruch, are totally unacceptable at any time or in any place. That the perpetrators of such misguided deeds should then endeavour to make their behaviour known all over the world, constitutes a massive and reckless Chillul Hashem which can have no justification. In addition, these actions do not represent that philosophy and way of life taught by Chabad Chassidus, in any way or form. They are totally contrary to the wishes and directives of the Rebbe and those who carry on his holy work. To present such conduct as being in accordance with the Rebbe’s teachings and message is a complete fabrication, and can only serve to destroy the good name of Chabad in the general community.

In light of the above, I find it necessary to rule that until the perpetrators of these deeds stand before a Beis Din of three Rabbonim, and seek forgiveness and correction of that which they have done, they are to be ostracized by all members of the community. They cannot be counted as part of a minyan (for davening) or mezuman (for bentsching), and one may not answer Amen after their Brochos. They cannot be given a Aliyah to the Torah or honoured with any other Mitzvah (see Shulchan Oruch, Yoreh Deah Ch. 334 Para 2). Similarly, one should not speak to them or have any business dealings with them.

May the Al-mighty restore His broken fences, and put into the hearts of those who have gone astray, a spirit of true Teshuvah.

Rabbi Zvi Hirsch Telsner
Yeshivah Centre

This marks the first time ever any official Chabad body publicly acknowledged and shunned such behavior.


  • 1. antimesira wrote:

    i just wonder how how in the world did it get so far. to find the answer we must go back to the begining. one sin leads to another. the line was crossed 15 years ago.

  • 3. Shimon,Morristown wrote:

    “why must you post such things?!”

    If we don’t attack things like the article mentions they“ll happen all the time.
    We made the mistake on the day of the histalkus Gimmel Tammuz.We were preoccupied with the grief.Had we made a stand than, we would not have to suffer Bais Rabbeinu in the hands of a cult.

  • 4. antimishichist wrote:

    sould we be surprised and shocked, im not. have you noticed what has been taking place in 770 the last 15 years? this has been a build up, this is the result of 15 of doing whatever, whenever. notice by the way that the same people that always justfied and excused the mishichistim also happen to be the same people that justify and excuse mesira, just stating a sad and true fact. im not shocked. even in the coming comments we will see justfing and excusing. the best one will be “they are just a small group of crazies, not everone is like them ” etc…

  • 5. Mendy wrote:

    They’re Elokistim, not Mishichistim!!!
    The two never had any connection!!!
    It’s like the snags posting this story saying: “look where Lubavitch has lead them”. Obviously that’s a distortion, and so is any connection to Mishichistim!

  • 6. a small group of individuals... wrote:

    “a small group of individuals…” where in the letter does he say that these people are Meshichistim, i would appreciate if stop associating these people to Meshichistim, its totaly different, it’s like saying Meshichistim and Tzfatim are the same, (or in your part that Anti’s and detroiters…)
    so if you can please take the “Meshichistim” word out, it also makes others look bad and just adds into the politics, and we dont need that now…
    Thank you

  • 7. JG wrote:

    These ppl are not in the position to take the Rebbe’s word and translate it in a way that it will negate Halacha. Unfortuntly the Rebbe is not here currently for us to ask the Rebbe to explain what was meant with those quotes – but it was definitly not to go against Halacha!! The Rebbe has always taught us the importance of listineing to every aspect of Halacha. Shame on these ppl who use the Rebbes teachings and come to their own misguided conclusions.

  • 8. Mendy wrote:

    “None of the local Rabbonim publicly shunned her” “This marks the first time ever any official Chabad body publicly acknowledged and shunned such behavior”

    If i recall correctly, Rabbi Schwei befeifush wrote a letter regarding the Kanevsky case, shunning her in the most explicit manner!

  • 9. a crown heights resident wrote:

    At least someone had the guts to stand up to these people and do something about it! Maybe our Rabbanim should take a lesson and not let Mrs. Kanevsky into our shul.

  • 10. Zalman wrote:

    Kol hakavod rabbi telsner, and to for posting this. If only every so-called meshichist would realize that he is thinking and saying exactly the same thing these people are doing in action.

  • 11. Yechi hamelech wrote:

    Thanks for the info. This is unacceptable and needs to stop. It makes a bad name for Lubavitch , mechichists or anti’s equally. The revalation of moshiach is not misable. If everyone doesn’t get it as a klal, if the whole world doesn’t see it. Then we still must wait.
    Ad Masai.

  • 12. to tuvie wrote:

    It’s important to let everyone know since this Ossur and these people should not be allowed into 770 or any other shul, we shouldn’t marry into people who believe in these belifes.

    This is how Christanity began it began with frum Jews don’t be mistaken, this is a digrace to us all and it underminds all of Lubavitch and the Rebbe

  • 13. Koby wrote:

    Finally, a sane Rov with stood up to this maddness. I hope other Rabonim will follow suit.

  • 14. We need such postings when the need aris wrote:

    thank you for posting. The reason to post such things is so that we know not to ever deal with such people who try to shun the Rebbe. However – without names how r we to know who not to deal with? I believe we also don’t do shidduchim with these families…. when it really hurts them their children may beg them to WAKE UP & SMELL THE COFFEE!!!!

  • 15. turn the world over wrote:

    Like like the way the mishichistim are trying to say its not them. Classic mishichist, never take responsibly for anything.

    And yes, now the snags could say look at Lubavitch, because WE Lubavitch did not stop this years ago, now this is the results of our silence and that why this is a big Chillul Lubavitch. The Rebbe Zt”L did not deserve this.

    Thanks you for posting the truth yet again. The truth hurts but to bad, it has to be heard.

    Besides silence is no longer an option, it is only because of our silence that we have to deal with this now. The Halacha is…Shtika Kihida, silence is admission. I don’t admit to this and I want to make it loud and clear.

  • 16. disgusted 2 wrote:

    Let’s ship Sara Kanevsky over there, maybe she’ll find a Shidduch.

  • 17. Applying for membership wrote:

    Since Moshiach is “already here” – kol isha is muttar, as we say, kol chassan v’kol kallah” – the voice of the kallah will be allowed. Also chzir is muttar, as chazal tell us it is called chazir because it will be returned to heter.

    I am not sure if they went mixed swimming or not, but if they did, it wouldn’tbe a problem as the ruach hatumah is removed from the land, so there is no longer a problem of bad thoughts and desires.

    And the name of this new religion is…?

  • 18. mama wrote:

    Maybe its about time we start doing the same in crown heights.. ummm would be barely anyone left allowable to make a minyan!

  • 19. Just a Chain Reaction! wrote:

    How did it get this far?
    When did this start?
    Who takes responsibility?

    How come every time a mishichist does something like this, the mishichist party gets away with it by claiming “Oh, he’s crazy”… Oh, He’s not a real mishichist” etc… This is as real as it gets. This guy is just a result of all the craziness before him.

    Yesterday, this guy was their hero, now they will dismiss him like a nothing, now they will pretend to disown him. But we all know the truth, that in the end they all chair on these people, they would rather have crazies like this , then G-d forbid have an “Anti” around.

    Heres how it works…Chain reaction.

    When the “Crazy Ladies” who hang out in 770 all day, you know, the ones that don’t fast and take off their Shatals etc…
    When they go hang up signs outside 770 and are stopped by normal; sane people (Chabadniks), who comes to their rescue; who comes to justify this crazyness?

    You guessed it, The “Crazy Tzvatim”.

    When the “Crazy Tzvatim” get in to trouble (whether they beat somebody up or damaged 770 etc..), Who comes to their rescue? Yes you guessed it, “The Gabboyim” and all the so called “normal or moderate mishichistim”.

    When the “Gabboyim” are in trouble, who sticks up for them; who justifies them?
    The so called “Let’s all get along”, “why all the fighting”, “we both believe in the same thing” etc…etc… the so called “Normal Mishichist”.

    You see my friends, there is no such thing as a “normal mishichist”, if he was normal, he would not be a misichist.
    Like the joke goes… “Is he crazy because he has a Yechi Kipa or is it that because he is crazy thats why he has a Yechi”?
    I say its both!. [If someone is truly “normal”, then he will get out of this Mishichist craziness, once he grows up]. If it wasn’t Mishicihskit these same people would be hugging trees.

  • 20. ther sites wrote:

    these things should be posted on our websites, to weed out the extreme opinions as opposed to the acceptable opinions. The problem arises that this will undoubtedly hit the other non-Chabad sites, causing a tremendous chilul Lubavitch

  • 22. Where it all began- 1996 pt 1 wrote:


    The “Messianist” (or “Moshichists”) as they call themselves, are a fringe group of fanatics within Lubavitch. The Messianist ringleaders created this aberrant movement by using some of the same tactics employed by many of the well known tyrants of history. The same dynamics of group psychology that I studied in college are at play here. Fanaticism of all kinds, but especially religious fanaticism, all share the same ugly face of intolerance, rigidity, irrationality, hatred and rage. The difference here is that this fanatic movement has as its central figure, our beloved Lubavitcher Rebbe (zt”l), who was a great giant of Torah righteousness and truth. Herein lies the real tragedy of this illegitimate movement within Lubavitch – that it misrepresents the Rebbe and threatens to destroy everythinghe built.

    It all began when the unthinkable occurred. After a long and protracted illness the Rebbe finally went the way of all flesh, leaving us, his kinderlach, in a state of helplessness, shock and grief. For over forty years the world had watched this great tzadik in amazement as he accomplished what seemed to be superhuman feats. His influence permeated both the entire Jewish and non-Jewish world. I personally lived within blocks of the Rebbe for over a decade and can say unequivocally that this was the most formative decade of my life. As a baalas teshuvah who had been educated to believe in secular moral relitivism, it was only the Rebbe who could have brought me closer to Hashem and His Torah. The Rebbe made Moshiach a palpable reality. The Rebbe could make us all practically see, feel, smell, and taste Moshiach.This is why we all felt that if Moshiach were imminent, as the Rebbe promised us he was, then the Rebbe must have been the Moshiach himself. After all, we asked, who else could it be?

    This is the background from which this false Messianic movement sprung.The Messianic ringleaders wasted little time after the Rebbe’s demise and immediately went to work. They created a new ideology using distortions and misrepresentations of the Rebbe’s discourses and were able to convince a large portion of the masses that the Rebbe would still be revealed as the Moshiach even after his death. I vividly recall sitting in 770 and listening to the Messianic lectures. They told the people not to cry. They actually said it was a sin to cry since it showed lack of faith. I paid no heed to their words as I uncontrollably cried bitter tears from the depth of my broken heart. The tearless crowd gave me cold stares as their Messianic teachers told them that people like myself didn’t really believe. The dynamics of group psychology were being cleverly manipulated by the Messianic ringleaders who told their legions that they were actually spiritually superior to people like me. The Messianist ringleaders played upon the vulnerability of the masses’ emotions. They placated the crowd into a mindless stupor and told them they had nothing to be saddened about because the Rebbe was really here. They called in respected rabbis and teachers and quoted the Rebbe’s discourses repeatedly until a large portion of the masses became brainwashed.They told the people what they wanted to hear. And those who dared to disagree or argue with their logic were ostracized from the group. The message became clear – you believe like us or you are not part of the group and are thereby not worthy of our love and friendship. The weaker ones succumbed. They became intimidated psychologically and would choose not to speak out. No one wants to be ostracized. They even went so far as to tell the people that if one did not believe that the Rebbe was still Moshiach after his death, then one was a non-believer in the entire concept of Moshiach altogether and was going against the Rebbe.

  • 23. Where it all began pt 2 wrote:

    This aberrant movement began to gain steam very quickly. The Messianic ringleaders made certain that every single class was dedicated to propagating their new Messianic ideology. The baalei teshuvah became their most vulnerable victims. As a baalas teshuvah I can assert that most of my peers are insufferably naive when it comes to their teachers. Baalei teshuvah come to Yiddishkeit with the openness of purity of children and most of us believe our teachers are holy, righteous and all-knowing. We basically believe everything they tell us and do not believe that we know enough Torah to argue against them.I am lucky since I was born with a healthy cynicism and an acute sense of reality. These characteristics, along with having had the right teachers, thank G-d, saved me from becoming part of the Messianic cult.

    Fanaticism is like a progressive illness of the spirit that poisons one’s soul. The Messianic movement has grown in its intensity and its ferocity with time. I have watched formerly nice people whom I had known for years become mean, bitter and vicious before my eyes. I do not blame them but rather the heads of the false “leaders” of the Messianists who have a hidden agenda. These ringleaders use their legions to do their dirty work. This includes actual physical intimidation and harassment of the “non-believers” who express contrary opinions. The Messianists have created a one-sided war and they are the only ones who are fighting.

    The hidden agenda of the Messianic ringleaders is one of gaining as much power as possible. They are not content with just having power over their followers, but they are also interested in gaining control over institutions and the structure of Lubavitch itself. They have attempted to encroach their power over every facet of the educational system in Crown Heights and in many cases have been successful. Some yeshivot are more subject to their influence than others, but they have to some extent made their new ideology a part of the curriculum in all of them. This has proven to be a major problem for many of the children who are becoming confused and alienated from Yiddishkeit in greater numbers than ever before. This has also become a major factor in dividing the community as never before with bitter feuds between and even within families.

    Furthermore, the Messianic ringleaders have attempted to replace the structure of Lubavitch, as was originally set up by the Rebbe, with a new structure while putting themselves at the helm. They have replicated the key institutions of Lubavitch and have remade them in their own image. All of this has been done in the name of the Rebbe and the bringing of Moshiach.These fake Chassidim would never have dared to even think of attempting such perfidy if the Rebbe were alive today!

    All of this is being done by them while they demonize the very people the Rebbe appointed to head these institutions. They assert that these individuals, whom the Rebbe himself hand picked as the leaders of Lubavitch, are actually evil and corrupt. Therefore, they must be saying that they (the Messianist leaders) know better than the Rebbe did about who should run Lubavitch! Apparently, they believe the Rebbe did not really know what he was doing when he chose the people to head up these institutions since he didn’t pick the Messianic ringleaders! And herein lies the real root of the entire problems with these Messianic ringleaders. Herein lies the root of all their motivations- JEALOUSLY! Just look in the beginning of the Chumash. Why did Kayin kill Hevel? Because he was jealous that Hashem preferred Hevel’s sacrifice over Kayin’s. In the same vein, these fake Chassidim who have appointed themselves as the leaders of the Messianic movement, are jealous that the Rebbe chose the members of Agudas Chasidei Chabad, and NOT THEM to be the leaders of the Lubavitch empire after his demise. The entire Messianic ideology is nothing more than a smokescreen for their true agenda of lust for power fueled by their own deep jealousy.

    Unfortunately, they have divided us bitterly! They have irreparably tainted our reputation around the world! And they are tarnishing the legacy of the greatest tzadik of our century! Yet, understanding all of this, I still believe. I still believe in the triumph of light over darkness. I still believe that the Rebbe will prevail. The Rebbe stated that his true Chassidim are his emissaries and they continue to spread his true message around the globe. Therefore, I still believe that we will live to see our Holy Moshiach speedily in our days!

  • 24. What about accepting their tzeddakah wrote:

    Is a chabad mossed allowed to accept donations from these people in cherem? If so, can they be honored at a dinner or have their name published in a journal?

    Or does money “kasher” a person in cherem??

  • 25. Just Saying... wrote:

    We talk a lot about Ahavas Yisroel & Achdus, and cry at our tragedies. Yet, we post this and continue with our comments… How about practicing and not just preaching and crying?

  • 26. who are they? wrote:

    Who are this crazies? I’d like to know before G-d forbid I am meShadduch with any of their families.

    And why didn’t Rabbi Telsner name them, just in case some naive Melbornites don’t realize who they’re dealing with!

  • 27. melbourne yid wrote:

    I think ppl are confusing what happened. These few guys are extremely deranged, and highly unaffiliated with chabad in melbourne or the rest of the world. They were banished from the yeshiva center for singing yechi extensively at innapropriate times. The duo now become trio then took to the street corners singing and dancing with giant moshiach flags during the morning and evening hours … they have been doing so for well over a year.

    To equate them with mishechistim is waaay off. Even to equate them to sfatim is a stretch as the sfatim would never break halacha *in the name of the rebbe mhm* … craziness aside they are still halacha abiding jews.

    Please note, this “group” is just 2 small, poor and non-affluent families, noone in Melbourne ever took them even remotely seriously or ever lent any credence to their beliefs.

  • 28. If only.. wrote:

    If only all Meshichstim wore the hat like the guy with the long white beard. I think it would suit the movement perfectly!

  • 29. Rabbi Telsner wrote:

    The problem is that Rabbi Telsner HIMSELF is a Moshiachist, and it is because of people like him that these crackpots arise. This is the truth, no reason to fool ourselves.

  • 30. Ima 5766 wrote:

    I was absolutely disgusted by the deranged women in 770.Ignoring them is not right. IN a way it is good that they became undressed, as people can now see them in a true light, they have undressed themselves from G-dliness. What a travesty of chassidus and of our beloved Rebbe’s teachings! I advocate removing their children from yeshiva, and marginalize them in the most exteme manner. The fact that we are silent, means we tolerate this in our midst. If G-d forbid a Jew for J came, we would not tolerate their foreign ideology, and we would not accept their children in our schools. How are they any different? I understand the children are innocent, but this is the only way I think they will realize their horrendous Chillul HaShem. I believe the tragedies are a result of our indifference to the disgusting and aborrhent behavior of these individuals. Tell the Rabbonim to wake up and do something now!

  • 31. Silient majority wrote:

    Its about time that the silent majority of Lubavitch stend up and oust every last trace of meshichsm from within out midst.

    In a political move, many in Crown Heights decided to embrace the meshugoyim 15 years ago — that was a terrible mistake. There has never been anything more damaging to the work of the Rebbe – the work of bringin moshiach, than the Meshichst movement.

    Just because the meshchistim have the violent few, who terrorize the rest, it does not mean that the Rebbe has to be dragged into the dirt.

    The meshichistim make oso haish, satmar, Barry etc etc all a walk in the park

  • 32. self righteousness kills wrote:

    “Just Saying… wrote:
    We talk a lot about Ahavas Yisroel & Achdus, and cry at our tragedies. Yet, we post this and continue with our comments… How about practicing and not just preaching and crying?”

    Right, don’t blame the people causing the Chillul Hashem and the tragedies that G-d forbid follow. Lets blame the people who expose them. Yes!!! Yes!!! that makes a lot of sense.

    Take your head out of the sand!
    It’s one thing you don’t have the guts to do or say something when things are not right it’s another to get in the way of those that are ready to voice their objections and point out the terrible truth. Like someone already wrote above, silence in not an option. The only people who get to enjoy the silence of self righteous individuals are the trouble makers.
    Let’s “practice” the right thing and take action.

  • 33. chaim wrote:

    the three local crack boxes, never work or do anything important are trying to make a name for themselves!please its nothing just a few nut jobs who need to get a life

  • 35. not meshichistim wrote:

    they are not meshichicstim.they are elokistim. that is why telsner a meshichist himself was able to oust them.its like saying all satmar is like neturei,they are only a small group that was ousted by all satmat.these elokistim were ousted by the mechistim.that goes to show they are mechichistim but another small group.

  • 36. ahavas yisrael wrote:

    to Ima5766:
    Where is your ahavas yisroel?….what kind of middos do you have to say such a terrible things,what has to do with their children?,their children are also jews,those poor women are mentally ill and it is not nice what you are saying,it is actually cruel,wake up and smell the coffee yourself they are also jews!!!!

  • 37. so glad i don-t live in crown heights wrote:

    i have to say that here in LA those on both sides love each other and we don’t have any real extremists on either side. wishing you the same in crown heights.

  • 38. frummonsey wrote:

    First of all, as long as the words proclaiming that the Rebbi z”l IS THE MOSHIACH adorns the roof of WORLD LUBABICH HEADQUARTERS at 770, the actions of this group CANNOT be called outside mainstream CHaBaD belief. A tusted Rav told me that there are Bachurim there who dance up to the Rebbi z”l’s and daven facing hie makom kevooah before Mincha. (confirmed by a Lubabitsher I work with.}
    I truely believe that there are only two kinds of Lubabithers; those who openly proclaim thier belief that he was the Mashiaich, and those who keep it to themselves.
    Why are we trusting these people with kashrus?

  • 40. yiddishemishpacha wrote:

    This is the ultimate in mishigaz. It is shocking and yet why not … if there is a sizable group that believe that the Rebbe never died at all, that he is alive, among us, but we just can’t see it. C’mon people. The sad thing is that Lubavitch Chabad has a rich mesora and not until the death of the Rebbe ztl have these kind of mishiginas come out and spoken this kind of nonsense. And the people that believe this you can’t even suggest that they may be mistaken. They will just say that you have a golus mentality and you can’t understand what is the emes. It makes me sad because look at what these people are doing to the memory of the Lubavitcher Rebbe ztl and what they are doing in creating division between Chabad and other Yidden. Oh, If only psychotropic mediacation could solve this. Baruch Hashem there are people who do refer to the Lubavitcher Rebbe with a “ZTL”

  • 41. Another Melbourne Yid wrote:

    “melbourne yid” wrote above about these guys. His last line is telling – if they came from “affluent” families, had money or yichus they would never have been banned from Yeshivah Shule in the first place and things would not have gone this far.

    Also, why is the Yechi sign still on the back wall in Yeshivah. Too many in the community are meshichesten (including the Rav) and the bottom line is that they are as bad as Zelig, Alex et al

  • 42. how many mishichistim r there? wrote:

    “Third Branch of ‘Moshiach Worshippers’”

    Whats the first and second?

    Each group disowns the other, are there really mishichistim?

  • 44. There-s more crazies out there!! wrote:

    There’s more crazies out there!!


    “the celebration of the 10 tevet in ibiza 5770”

    Why has no one put them in cherem????

    The disease spreads quickly!

  • 45. Madness continues wrote:

    Madness continues…

    Ibiza All The Way ! הגאולה כאן ועכשיו

    See the father (in his underwear!!) putting on tefillin on a six (that’s right – 6) year old son, and “explaining” based on the Rebbe’s words why it is okay in moshiach’s times to do so…

    Mad madness!!

  • 46. GEVALD!!!!! wrote:


  • 47. JGREEn wrote:

    It has been said above – but its important to say again – these ppl are not meshichistim – they are deranged….there are plenty of ppl who consider themselves “meshichistim” but are horrified by the actions of these few, sick individulas.
    and i mean sick in a literal sence. I feel bad for these ppl – they truly believe and think that they are oing the Rebbes will. while in truth reality is they are breaking hallacha !!!

  • 48. Ad Mosai!!! wrote:

    Even though I am a huge fan of Rabbi Telsner, the sign at the back of the Shul has to go. Rabbi CT Groner being featured speaker at the Moshiach Conference doesn’t help the cause either. Whatever the intent, those in leadership roles need to take responsibility of the ramifications and effects for their actions. Having huge banners on Hotham St lawns by communal clergy and teachers viewable to the public further encourages the mislead to continue creating a huge chillul Hashem.Wearing Yechi on one’s yarmulke has the same detrimental effect. Where does one draw the line? Only when they eat on Asara Be’Teves?! You guys lost the plot 15 years go.

  • 49. Melbourne Girl wrote:

    why are you turning on Rabbi Telsner and accusing him of being as crazy as these people???
    affluent or not is not the issue, there is three that is IT three crazy men and their families (Hashem should save their children) who were banned from Yeshiva. Melbourne is an amazing place and people after that pretty much ignored them..
    AFTER they went public in the name of the Rebbe and the name of Chabad and went Hepach haTorah ONLY THEN did rabbi telsner do what he was meant to as a Rav, as Chossid and as a Yid!!! do not compare all yuor crazy crown heights politics of meshichistim and antis, tzvatim and detroiters to Melbourne Australia!!! We are accepting people of anyones opinions unless it goes against Halacho and leads others astray!!!! these people are not mishichistim!! if they were and listened to what the Rebbe said we wouldnt have this problem today!! they are ignorant, crazy, bored people with nothing else better to do than embarrass themselves and their former community. Lets concentrate less on their mental antics and more on helping gettting those innocent brain washed children out of there and giving them proper chinuch!!!!
    Crown heights has its problems and Melbourne has theirs but we are nothing the same or to the same degree!!!

  • 50. wake up!!!!!!! wrote:

    thanks for publising this!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    there are many ppl in CH and in 770 like this groop!!
    in fact, this groop is the elite“ because they reached the highest level of hiskasrus and represent the ”real meshichist movement“
    they are the envy of the other meshichistm who are still in golus,a nd they crave to become ”so mechistm” like them

    PPL, wake upppppppp!
    this is disgace for the Rebbe, it is a chillul Hashem, a chillul Lubavitch, they are turning all ppl off, thy are distroying all the Rebbe’s work

  • 51. point to ponder wrote:

    there is a huge giant difference between mishegistim and mishechistim!
    It all goes after the behaviour. The Rebbe once said Lubavitch is not terrorists. this means if you behave as a terrorist, you are a terrorist.
    even if you are dressed with all the shemonah begodim, a person is judged by his action. n’eNOW!

  • 52. whos crazy now? wrote:


    and so i was there when they Physically hurt many other innocent people. They do what good for them, whatever they want, what ever makes them look good they keep. Since when do they make the rules of who goes and who stays. Here lies the true problem.
    These people made them look bad, so they pretended to throw them out.

    Tachles, Today 24 Tavet (January 10, 2010), these other crazies are still in 770. Just like the crazy Tzvatim.

    It’s funny to watch one crazy calling another crazy.

  • 53. MMD wrote:


  • 54. A Shomrim Six wrote:


    I was there at 320 Jay street for six whole weeks and witnessed these “crazy Tzfatim” testify against six Jews like Nazi’s, all the while wearing Yechi kippas and yellow pins.

    These same mishichist mossrim still are allowed in 770 and the official Misichist site parades them like a bunch of heroes.
    Don’t believe…Check out…here you will see the mossrim “Tzvatim” branch of the mishichist party, taking a trip just a few short days after spilling Jewish Blood. They didn’t just do this Mesira on their own. there is a much bigger picture here.

    All I see from the mishichist party is justifying and excuses time after time. Never ever to take any responsibility.Its never the mishichistim. In fact I’m really starting to think if there are mishichistim or maybe its a figure of my imagination.

  • 55. A Crazy Anti I am wrote:

    I’m starting to think that it’s we “Antis”/Chabadniks that are crazy.

    After all There is no such thing as a mishichist. It’s all in our imagination. We “antis” are going nuts. Let me explain.

    Every time a “mishichist” does something crazy, his fellow mishichstim say “hes crazy”,“they are not ‘real’ mishichistim” etc…

    They go ahead and just give that “crazy group” a new name (just like they called themselves mishichistim), like Tzvatim and Elokistim. In other words, they never take responsibility and always just disown the now “new crazy group”.

    About a month ago, there was a great tragedy taking place at 320 Jay street, down down Brooklyn. A big Mesira/blood libel against 6 Lubavitcher Jews by 7 Mishichist mossrim.

    The so called “victims”/witnesses/mossrim were Tzvatim Mishichistim. We also had “other” mishichistim saying
    “they are not mishichist, they are Tzvatim, its not the same like mishichistim”.

    And what do we have here (in this very post), we have people saying that this “new” group are worse then the Tzvatim, because the Tzvatim keep Halacha etc… and the Tzvatim are not AS crazy, is that suppose to be a complement?

    Like I said, no such thing as a mishichist, we antis are the crazy ones. We need help!!!

  • 56. Shwei wrote:

    Rabbi Shwei condemmed but didnt act. He used words, not action

    Rabbi Telzsner is an Emese Rov

  • 57. Rabbi Schwei??? wrote:


    Are you by any chance referring to Rabbi Schwei, the same Rav who just stood by while a vicious mesira/blood libel was taking place against six members of our community, all in his name and didn’t do or even say anything.

    The mossrim said in his name, in public (on line and letters sent to all homes), that he gave permission and as a Rov of the community he did not come out against this claim?

    If he didn’t give premisson then wht didn’t he come out agianst and if he did give premission then…


    He did what looked good for him then and did what he thinks looks good for him now. He didn’t care about right wrong then and doesn’t care now either.

  • 58. What Branch are you from? wrote:

    How many groups or types of mishichiastim are there?

    Well, it depends how many mishichistim there are.

    For the slow:
    If there are a 100 mishichistim, then there are a 100 groups of mishichist etc… each mishichist is his own group.
    You see the reason this person was thrown to mishichist is because he does not like authority, except of course his own (dictating)authority. That why one mishichist can’t really get along with the other. of course they unit for the cause of destroying the so called “Anti”, but take the “anti” out of the picture and they kill each other (as evident from some of the comments protecting/justifying and excusing the mishichistim). Look how fast they are to call others “crazy”.
    Once the line is crossed, theres no going back.

    How do you (as a mishichist self proclaimed Mashpiha) Frabrang and brain wash your flock time after time that there is no authority and everyone can and should do as he/she wants or feels etc… and then come to these same flock latter on, when only according to your own understanding “they took it to far”, expect them to listen to you. You just spend years brain washing them to do what they want and feel and disregard all authority. And remember you thought them that anybody who disagrees with you is a APIKORES (Anti) who doesn’t believe in Moshiach and all the propaganda. You eat what you reap.

  • 59. STOP THEM ASAP wrote:

    It is a sad day today but not only today.
    Every time you walk in to 770 is a very sad day let’s talk about today .
    There was hachnosas sefer Torah by the Teichtel family.
    Of course there was a few mashchissim in 770 and in meter of minutes
    You see the crazy flags and the crazy yechi song . WHY ??? where is the respect for the other
    This is not your simcha but if you are a maschchist you own the world you can do as you want ?
    Raboisai ALL maschchissim are the same wicked low lives. I despise them ALL of them
    You know why? because they want to take away from us everything .
    They will take away our shuls our neighborhood our kids our religion .
    Raboisai there is no good meschchissim not today .
    Yes there used to be Chasidim who I could say with them YECHI but no more all are terrorist
    They all hold with the terror of the maschchissim . and I saw how they all were waiting for the
    Success of the Nazi guys who went to 320 Jay Street to testify against Jews.
    And their official website jihad info gave the full support .
    I do not accept the story that every time come up again. Who this he is crazy and that he is crazy
    No guys they are all crazy .
    WE have to stop them ASAP

  • 60. fair and balanced wrote:

    hey everyone, all this just asks for alot of rachmonus, on them and on us…. if you need help to find in yourself some rachmonus, have another read of Ch. 32 in Tanya… and then a few more reads won’t hurt either…

  • 61. correction please wrote:

    I did not read ALL the comments, but as sad as all this is, the headline is nonetheless misleading. The accurate term is Nidduy (quite different from Cherem Ch”V), and it is clearly stated in Gemara, Rambam, and Shulchan Aruch that someone who openly defies a Gezera Derabanan is AUTOMATICALLY in Nidduy, with or without a Beis Din declaring so. Rabbi Telsner Shlita is simply stating the fact. PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT HE WROTE AND HOW HE WROTE IT.
    May the hearts of all Klal Yisroel turn to Hashem and His torah, and may we all merit to see the Rebbe and rejoice in the fulfillment of all his prophecies.

  • 62. to who are they wrote:

    to the person who wrote that rabbi telsner shouldve written them names just in case someone from melb doenst know them, then u obviously dont and wont understand bc if u did u wud realise that if ur from melb theres NO WAY you DONT know about them bc EVERYONE in melb is aware of these people. and dont worry, none of them have kids who are of marriegable age their kids are very little so in about 15 yrs time when they will be ready moshiach will already be here!

  • 63. crazy people wrote:

    to Rabbi Schwei ????

    you are so right. He is good at waving HIS private flag & supporting his talmidim & their meshugass, but when it comes to justice & doing what;s right he’s a moral coward.

    So why would anyone expect him to do the right thing any time?

  • 64. friend from CA wrote:

    Rabbi Telsner should be commended for his stand on this. He could have just as easily done what the CH rabbis did, calling them misguided, etc. He took a stand on a chillul hashem, chillul lubavitch and did the right thing. I’ve known him for over 25 yrs and he always speaks his mind with no fear.
    I wish him and his rebbitzen Miriam arichas yomim and yaarich yomim al mamlachtoi and much nachas from all his children.

  • 65. Acrimony Appreciator wrote:

    Allow me to say that I am UTTERLY DELIGHTED! “Why?” I hear you ask….well except for the words of a very few, I read lots and lots of agressively worded, hate filled emails directed against those who have been put into Cherem. What is even more fascinating to read are the words of those who feel that the children and families of these renegades SHOULD be discriminated against.
    Firstly, I can only presume that the authors of these comments have themselves perfected their middos. They are naturally always the first to greet others, they run to do mitzvos, they never engage in loshon hora, they go out of their way to give lifts to the elderly, distance themselves from rumours and idle gossip, give up their seats for the weary….oh the list of their kind deeds must be endless and it is this that gives me such cheer. I cannot imagine how early they have risen to get through all of their duties, learning, helping their wives and husbands at home, spending extra time with their children and yet still manage to find the time to pen their vitriolic judgments.
    As for those who recommend that the families and children of the Melbourne men in question, be shunned, persecuted, excluded from the sidduch pool and be treated as tools of leverage through which we can blackmail their fathers/husbands/sons into submission, well why not? What the world needs now is more sinus chinom, more prejudice and to punish the innocent who themselves have already suffered for years. Oh hang on….I just had a thought. How will I justify my glee over all this self righteous nastiness being bandied about on the net when The Rebbe stressed the importance of ahavas Yisroel? Oh oh! I will have to give this matter more thought if I am to join the ranks of the Acrimony Appreciators.

  • 66. The Truth wrote:

    It’s the Anti Meschicistin’s fault. If there would not be such strong antagonism then this would not go on.


    If a person is crazy they will do whatever they like be it Pro Moshiach or Anti Moshiach.

    Well done Rabbi Telsner for not confusing the issues!

  • 67. Hisbonenus wrote:

    On this issue, Here is a comment on the YWN website:

    “and can only serve to destroy the good name of Chabad in the general community.”

    um, what good name?

    “there is little central authority or guidance”

    This is a huge issue that represents a major departure from traditional Jewish practice. There are literally hundreds of Chabad “rabbis” out there making their own decisions without the guidance of an objective talmid chacham. Daily decisions involved in leading a kehilla can often be difficult and only become more difficult when compounded by one’s own negi’ot (reputation, “customer” satisfaction, money, power, etc.) I’ve personally witnessed rather alarming concessions made in halacha and in the spirit of Orthodox Judaism in the name of keeping everyone happy so they’ll come(read: drive) to shul. I’ve even heard one Chabad “rabbi” say (in response to
    a protest over an inappropriate practice being sanctioned in his shul) that (Rabbi) Avi Weiss said it was okay so there was what to rely on!! I’ve been witnessing the slippery slope ever since that encounter.

    “our shababnikim”

    Every year, I watch a new crop of “shlichot” (seminary-age girls sent out to do their year of service in various communities) come and am beginning to understand that the mode of dress I was initially so shocked about is quite the norm rather than the exception among Lubavitch girls. The skirts well over the knee, the provocative shoes, revealing necklines, skin-tight fit, etc. I’ve actually had more than one not-yet-frum woman ask me, if they’re religious, why do they dress that way? It has always amazed me to see how many so-called rabbis allow their wives to dress. IS that, too, all in the name of attracting people to yiddishkeit? Is the idea to appear hip and with it so as to demonstrate the religious Judaism is not as confining or restrictive as some may think?

    “We in Chabad sometimes have a little bit too much ahavas Yisroel”

    by Yisroel, I believe you mean unaffiliated Jews or Chabad supporters. Religious Jews from other “sects” – say, for example, a typical yeshivish, non-chassidic Jew – don’t seem to be treated with much “ahavah.” The religious Jew who moves anywhere near a Chabad house and tries to befriend neighboring Jews? He’d better beware because the not-so-loving Chabadnik is likely to rear his head.

    Forgive me for some of my bitterness. I spent many years in blissful naivete before my eyes were so rudely opened to a very sad reality. I am sad for the good people that are being misguided by a philosophy that is lacking in several ways and is taking them farther from the true Torah values and ideals.

    It’s a challenge to imagine a world of peace but, nevertheless, I await moshiach tzidkeinu every day…

    Comment by mikarevet — January 10, 2010 @ 3:20 pm

  • 69. dovid wrote:

    these moshicistin are the biggest enemy to the rebbe, they should all be thrown out of chabad kol hakaved rabbi telzner its about time some one stood up keep it up thats what the rebbe wanted

  • 70. learn the sichos!don-t dabble wrote:

    why is it that 99% of the people against yechi don’t even talk about moshiach at all ?every sincere anti i ask :when was the last time u learned about moshiach ?(THE FASTEST WAY TO BRING HIM IS TO LEARN ABOUT IT SHABBOS TAZRIA 1991 SICHO) says i haven’t -get straught what the Rebbe said and what are your feelings.that would answer your questions about yechi -if you don’t learn you don’t know.i never saw an honest anti who learned through 1991-1992 and speak against yechi(besides…which he says the chozrim wrote the sichos and not the Rebbe)in Melborne These people have made a terrible mistake b/c no one is explaining them these delicate words about what the Rebbe talked about.I agree to Rabbi Telsner ,i also believe they(most )are sincere in doing what the Rebbe one answers them and explains their mistake.i believe in Yechi although its not popular and I wouldn’t always like to have to defend it ,but it’s what the Rebbe said !

  • 71. Eliyahu wrote:

    If I recall correctly the Vaad Rabonei Lubavitch of USA wrote a statement quite a few year back against these crazy people.

  • 72. gods right hand man wrote:

    did anyone broach the topic truthfully
    the fast three months after yom kippur is for??
    the acceptance of moshiach is contingent on a persons actively performing torah and mitzvos
    they ate their olam habah for the world to see and their table seen by the true judge is flawed by their timing
    look for a shulchan aruch before eating is the best advice
    my garden doesnt have borders

  • 73. MaddinBklyn wrote:

    Why are all you messianist getting all worried? your finally being exposed for the frauds you are, notice the flags and pins this is messianism in it’s ugliest form , there is no way around, the messianist group has already destroyed thousands of jewish lives, suck it up phonies your end is near.

  • 74. Defined by your actions. wrote:

    My My My. So much hate and personal attack.

    So well observed by Acrimony Appreciator (above)
    If this is as serious an issue as it is suggested – then it is better that it should be handled with calm, wisdom and respect for teachings.

    We are seeing some very ugly responses to this situation which do not reflect well on us all.

    Please everyone take a deep breath and reflect on your own actions before attacking others in public – or for that matter in private.

    I wish you all well.

  • 75. Melbourne Ahsreshca wrote:

    statements are worthless! Pashkivilien are worthless! he said she said is worthless!

    action matters

    what telzsner did and is doing matters!

    Fortunate is the melbournes kehila

  • 77. From Down Under wrote:

    First of all we all need to understand that the Rabbi Telsner who is being praised here is actually a very fanatical Meshichist and he and his shull and entire yeshiva says Yechi 3 times after each day after davening.


    1 Rav by himself, is not a Beis Din and therefore his Cherem is actually not a Cherem but a joke, a publicity stunt, not unlike the clown in the youtube video.

    One person making a clown-cherem, without any real beis din, such ‘Cherem’ is invalid.

    Furthermore a Cherem Like a Loaded Gun and is not some kind of a childs toy, which, you play around with and if someone makes an invalid Cherem it backfires on himself.

    It’s a rachmanus on Rabbi Telsner that he doesn’t realize what he playing around with.

  • 78. levi wrote:

    The real culprit is Chaim Tzvi Groner for fueling this crazy Moshiach campaign. Alex and Zelig are just 2 simple misguided jews who took things just a tiny bit further than the so called ‘leaders’.

    It’s time to take the silly sign down.

  • 79. ahavas yisroel wrote:

    Most of Chabadniks today are baaley teshuvah.
    To become baaley teshuvah required the ability to stand up for the truth as we see it against the prevailing ideologies.
    When such a person becomes a Chabadnik he can’t simply break his character and easily learn to accept the rulings of the local rabbi when it seems to him to go against the Rebbe’s own words.
    The only thing that can be achieved by mocking , hating and excommunicating these people is further fragmentation of Chabad , creation of many smaller competing mosdos etc.
    It would in the long term be better for all of us if our rabbis and shluchim would try to be more like Hilel , humbly study the relevant sichos with these people and try to explain the real meaning to them .
    Even when the split is unavoidable the people should remember that we are still dealing with our fellow Jews who would probably jump in fire if needed to save those very people placing them in cherem.
    The rabbis should remember that one should push a person away with one hand and draw back with the other and not push away with both hands (as explained in Pirkey Avos) May as we know when that was done it lead to a birth of a new hostile religion that has been persecuting us 2000 years.
    May we merit to dance in the Beis Hamikdash haShlishi in a complete redemption with the Rebbe teikaf u’miyad mamash.

  • 80. WakeUp!!! wrote:

    “This group joins in with Crown Heights’ very own Sara Kanevsky who hosted such ‘seudos’ on fast days in the woman’s section of 770. None of the local Rabbonim publicly shunned her.”

    HaRav Shwei did!!! Is ignoring the Rav or his psak?!

  • 81. Ghaim Yedudah wrote:

    The Rebbe zy”a left us with a huge legacy, to bring as many people as possible to a life of Torah and Mitzvos; thereby will hasten the Redemption.
    To promote any individual even the greatest Tzadik, who is no longer alive as Moshiach is outside the realm of normative Yiddishkeit
    We cannot allow our loss and pain to lead us down the incorrect path

  • 82. moshiach in mine wrote:

    Mr. mishichistim you don’t own moshiach and this issue is not about the believe in moshiach. It has always been part of your propaganda to switch the subject to that by saying “so, you don’t believe in moshiach?” etc…

    Being a mishichist has nothing to do with moshiach, its much more then that, evident from the results.

  • 83. Elisheva wrote:

    It seems that the delusional belief and position that the rebbe is still actually alive is pervasive in chabad orgs and institutions.
    We will have to put rabbi Majesky, R. Turen, r. Schwei and Rabbi Adelman of Amherst in cherem.
    Which one first?
    Maybe it is a conspiracy to make fools out of all the baal teshuvas.

  • 84. to much credit wrote:

    “We cannot allow our loss and pain to lead us down the incorrect path”

    oh please, your giving these people to much credit. 3 Tammuz was the best thing that ever happened for them.

  • 85. Mishichist Party wrote:

    There is no such thing as a moderate mishichist. Mishichizim is a political party. The politics comes first and then the phony “believe” about the Rebbe being Moshiach etc..
    Find me one mishichiast (even a brand new BT or youngster) who doesn’t know the politics/propaganda behind the mishichist movement/cult. They burly know how to pronounce Yechi but they hate Krinsky…Shemtov etc…etc… If you call yourself a mishichist something is wrong with you. The first question I have to you (if and only if you might be half normal looking), is what is your motive (with whom are you fighting)?

    This issue is not about the believe in moshiach lets not pretend it is. It’s politics first and “moshiach” second (as a back up).

  • 86. Mendel the Melbourne Cohen wrote:

    “….One person making a clown-cherem, without any real beis din, such ‘Cherem’ is invalid….”

    Please don’t be smart and try to be technical if it is a proper Cherem or not!
    Rav Telsner never used the word ‘cherem’ all he did was put his foot down as a Mora D’Asra should against crazies her proudly desecrate Halocha. 99% of Melbourne jews will follow the psak of Rav Telsner because if these practices are ignored all the Holy work of the Rebbe to get everyone to follow Halocha is zilch!



  • 89. TRUTH SEEKER wrote:

    ACRIMONY APPRECIATOR: Don’t be so slef-righteous and sanctimomious. People post all the time on a range of subjects and I don’t see your cynical remarks about the time they have, their perfected midos etc. And as much as this may be more “hate filled” as you describe it – it is people of a family whose reputation is being brought down by other members of their family. They’re hurting and they’re venting. That’s their right. And if they achieve nothing through their rhetoric you certainly achieve nothing through yours. You would have done better spending your time learning some chassidus rather than posting your gibberish.

    DOWN UNDER: I can only assume you are a sympathiser because of your attack on Rabbi Telsner and the yeshiva. You might in fact be the clown in the video. To equate saying yechi three times a day (which I don’t agree with) to eating on a fast day, just proves that the ones playing with fire here are not just the clowns in the video but yourself as well. Oi l’rasha oi lishchanoi. When that pit in the ground opens, pray you are far away!

  • 90. You-re NOT dorm Down Under wrote:

    Down Under wrote:

    “First of all we all need to understand that the Rabbi Telsner who is being praised … he and his shull and entire yeshiva says Yechi 3 times after each day after davening.”

    This is just a plain LIE; either you are not from Melbourne and have been fed some misinformation, or you are a plain liar!

  • 91. Paul Freedman wrote:

    Crunch: from a secular standpoint the sad thing is that this reduplicates more or less Sabbateanism–not that the Rebbe G-d forbid violated halacha but that moshiach enthusiasm leads to selective violation of fasts within an outwardly mitzva observant culture and religious style. This is not what Christianity set out to do–Sabbateanism is not Xtianity but something else.

  • 92. chassidishe woman wrote:

    Why is Kanevsky allowed to do these things in 770. Why is she allowed in? It is NOT a public place, it officially & legally belongs to AGUCH, & they allow everyone to use it. In this case though she should be stopped from entering & removed if she gets in. She can show her insanity in plenty of other places…if they’ll let her. Or let her use her own place.

  • 93. Stoning anyone? wrote:

    “Hear, hear” to the well considered comments of Ahavas Yisroel, Defined By Your Actions, Duvie, Shimon and the others who lead with understanding, compassion and a desire to heal the rifts that are only increased by bitterness and recrimination.

    As a ba’al teshuva myself, I was raised in a school in which one rather well known Jew was oft quoted as having said “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.” I may not subscribe to the teachings of my pre-frum schooling but that phrase certainly does keep popping into mind as I read this thread.

  • 94. ceo wrote:

    someone has the guts to stand up and do something about this.
    We all have what to improve on, but this group went over the line. Thats not what the Rebbe is all about, chas ve shalom.
    thats why in different cities, people were really against groups that they felt would lead to this.
    its not easy to draw the line (for some it is I guess) but it has to be done.

  • 96. m me wrote:

    Be very careful how wide a net you cast when labeling people. This small group of people selected some Rebbe texts and acted on them as they saw to translate, in a way that violated age-old tradition.

    Our religion includes acting on Rebbe mandates to violate age-old traditions. Zman tefilla (er, of course only after length learning of chassidus, or a long visit to Ohel), drinking booze (er, L’chaim, farbrengen), socializing/talking to opposite gender folks (er, mivtzoim), No sleep in Suka (er, we couldn’t because of our awe of the holiness), getting advice from a ZatZal’s book of answers (er, he finds a way to communicate with us)….

    and then there is the general liberla term thrown around like – meshugoyim, wackos. while we do our version of strange things, like mumbling old poetry to a “god”…

    if you feel threatened by someone else’s exhibition of what they consdeir holy religion, which is not in your daled amos, YOU have a problem, not them.

  • 97. telsner is d man wrote:

    telsner = champion

    now you broke the “cherem” ice i think you shoule work your way down the list of others in melb who need to be put on it. the well known child molesters in the community should be next

  • 98. Positive Action! wrote:


    We all agree that the Rebbe wants us to learn Inyonei Geulah u’Moshiach, both in Nigleh and Chassidus, and of course, in the Rebbe’s Sichos (5751-5752). Ask you Mashpiah to help you.
    Let us all do this NOW!
    This is Makdim Refuah l’Makoh.
    It will certainly remove many questions and comments made, based on ignorance on the above.
    May we merit to see the end of this dark Golus, with the revelation of Moshiach NOW!

  • 99. OY REBBE wrote:

    ahavas yisroel wrote:
    “ who would probably jump in fire if needed to save those very people placing them in cherem.”

    guy stop with the propoganda we all know who you are. you want to take the name of our rebbe and use it to desroy the world but guss what THE REBBE IS STRONGER THAN YOU all.
    just like YOU maschchissim and that include all of you names that was mantion here be it majesky or schwai or anyone Preeching this hate i saw it with my own eyes not one not 2 not 3 not 4 not 5 not 6 . SEVEN terorist with yechi yarmulkas and stupid flag pins try to hurt 6 Jews in supreme court at 320 jay street . that was not one week not 2 not 3 not 4 not 5 . six weeks thy came from all over the wourld from india and from bulivia and from israel . with the command to hurt jews .

    well the rebbe is stronger than all mesianic teror and the jews will pravail . the mesianics wil go away to other non jewish religion or create new sect. and the rebbe will watch over our kehila. and just like the supreme court gave them the largest murning period to thier live.
    GOD will help lubavitch to get rid of them .
    just like was at purim kaasher hachilota linpol lefonov.
    destroy the maschchissim they are all the same haters.
    i only see hate in thier eyes .
    remember jews are baishonim rachmonim and gomley chasodim .
    none of this qualities you find by them.

  • 100. Sarah wrote:

    Anyone who had the zechua to see the Rebbi with their own eyes knows the true greatness of the Rebbi and doesn’t need to desecrate his holy memory by making him into some phony Moshiach or God.

    Let us please remember our true Rebbi for what he really was and not turn Chabad into a circus.

  • 101. Sara-s classmate y wrote:

    The guy with the ACRIMONY club is the only one worth reading.
    Unfortunately, there are disturbed people in every community, inlcuding Anash.
    Before anyone goes putting Sara Kanevsky and her innocent children in Cherem – put the wealthy mosrim in cherem. People are afraid to stand up to the mighty dollar. In essence, one member of Anash being moser on another – or an entire organization, G’mach, etc., is A LOT WORSE than one disturbed individual that the majority of people don’t take seriously anyway. Sara is misguided in her understanding and beliefs, the mosrim’s actions are intentional. Anyone hurt by Sara’s actions, didn’t do enough learning about the actual coming of Moshiach and, therefore, they are to blame. However, many people were intentionally hurt – beyond their control – by the actions of the mosrim.
    Get real and stop worshipping wealth.

  • 102. Real Chosid wrote:

    Whoever wants to worship a hero like the BT’s did before accepting Yiddishkeit can make a fool of Elvis Presley or Michael Jackson etc. Authentic Judaism doesn’t cater for this cult like behaviour. Either act like frum jews or go back where you came from.

    Yellow flags belong to the sports fans or the Hollywood worshippers.

  • 103. Answer to Sarah wrote:

    Chabad will only be a circus is we keep writing articles about hese incedents. A situation took place in Australia, the Rabbi there dealt with it… Now lets move on. The circus is created by talking about it, and parading around and trashing a holy opinion.

  • 104. Answer to Real chosid wrote:

    Being that this article places a real meshugag in the same category as a Mishechist, which would not have a negative connotation if not for articles such as these that place mushaganas in the same profile as a true chossid. True there are difference in opinion… but lets face it.. chabads politics are nothing like in williamsburg.. etc. Lets take this in stride and cut out the negativity

  • 105. I hear you wrote:

    The story makes allot of sense, except why say “is an example of Mishechism gone seriously awry” please do not put this in the same catagory as Mishchistim. This does not represent what a mishechist really is. When there is a meshugana who is an anti does something out of order does anybody say “is an example of ANTI’S gone seriously awry”???

    Please refrain from putting mishechistim in the same boat as a first class meshugana. In Lubavitch there aer some difference in opinion.. does not mean this site has to mock or warp the whole concept of a mishechist.

  • 106. antimishichist??? wrote:

    “ANTI’S gone seriously awry”

    Then that “anti” should be a mishichist.

    The whole idea (as one explained in a comment aboce) of mishichzim is to go awry, don’t to take orders and to listen to others, No authority, fight the authority. If someone does that then he might as well be a mishichist.

  • 107. Shocked! What-s the connection? wrote:

    Hey! why is this such a hot topic with so many comments?
    Is that what Lubavitch is all heated up about?
    If you really want to do what is right, one thing forsure is not to ridicule others. This is total Lashon Harah!

    Anyway, how can a rov put someone like this into Cheirem? How about someone who does not keep Shabbos and some other very important Halachos? What’s the difference? Can someone explain this to me?

  • 108. GEULA IS HERE!!!! wrote:

    “Third Branch of ‘Moshiach Worshippers’ Opens in AU.”.

    MORE AND MORE BRANCHES ARE coming out!!!!



  • 110. Mark wrote:

    Rabbi Telszner had to act as these fanatical crazies were helping their co-crazies to demolish Chabad and the good name of our late Rebbi ZT”L.



  • 111. to mr shoked wrote:

    If someone Openly desecrates teh shabbas (C”V) and then gets others to do the same, then of course he should will be put into chairem

    this person is not only a Chteh – sinner, he is also a MACHTEH – making other people sin

    I hope that clarified that for you

  • 113. Yechi HaMelech wrote:

    All the various blog sites and posts that are condemning these courageous, true, and real Chabad Chassidim of the Rebbe Melech HaMashiach Shlita are just plain wrong. These true Chassidim are not embarrassed to follow the Rebbe Melech HaMashiach Shlita’s directives as the Rebbe teaches them to us till this very day. The rest of the Jewish world, especially those who claim to be Chabad Chassidim, should be embarrassed that they are not strong enough to stand up and do what is right as these brave Chassidim in Melbourne have done.

    Even the Goyim, L’Havdil, do not shy away from their beliefs even if the rest of the world may deem it crazy – e.g. Muslims demanding the removal of the image of Muhammad from museums; Christians eating wafers and drinking wine… etc.

    All Jews and particularly Chassidim of the the Rebbe Melech HaMashiach Shlita should shout to the world Moshiach is here literally!!!

    Yechi Adoneinu Moreinu v’Rabbeinu Melech haMoshiach l’olam vo’ed!!!

  • 114. A.Cohen wrote:

    This is a good first step. I wuld appreciate the Rabbonim going a step further and not allow any of the Messhichisti flags and singing of thir song at 770-it’s a real turn-off for me. I no longer like going to daven at 770 for that reson when I come to town. I’ll go n only to daven a bit since it was the shul of the Rebbe

  • 115. HELP!!! wrote:

    WOW! i feel like im reading a comedy… YOU PPL HAVE ISSUES!!!! Anyone who wrote on this page needs an immediate appointment with a psychologist to get their brain in order!!


    You just keep doing what your doing and let Melbourne deal with their problems.

    Where does it say that you should stick your nose and cause trouble where ever you can??

    I am so ashamed of all of you! Its embarassing!

  • 116. Ad Moisa! wrote:

    Yechi HaMelech wrote:Another for the Mental Asylum. Do you not understand that 99.9% of Jews NEVER did nor do believe your nonsense. Muslim and Christians (who you want to copy) have not changed their religion as you are trying to do. This has nothing to do with Moshiach, nor torah only to campaign for your team in the stupid Moshiach stakes!
    When Hashem will have mercy on us and the Moshiachist Meshugoim he will send us HIS Moshiach.

  • 117. PS wrote:

    If they came from “affluent” families, had money.they would never have been banned from Yeshivah Shule.
    So the Yechi sign will never come down
    plus half of the Vad Ruchnius are supporting the SIGN and YECHI

  • 118. Mushky wrote:

    so embarrassed… i saw it at non-chabad sites :(

    This is what ppl think Chabad is; and it’s a disgrace to the Rebbe and his Chassidim.

  • 119. Texas man wrote:

    How can a holy concept like waioting for Moshiach that the Rebbe pushed be hijacked and used as a political football by these Messianic jews??

  • 120. Pinchos Woolstone wrote:

    The root of messianic madness is the belief in infallibility;
    which is an anathema to Torah Judaism.
    The Rebbe ( may his merit protect us)never supported the development of a cult of personality centered upon him.
    The Rebbe has left us with an enormous legacy, each Chosid according to his/her capacity and leanings.
    Lets keep spreading the Light.
    The Histalkus occurred, which is the way of all flesh; to deny it undermines the Rebbe’s life of enormous achievements and is a mockery of Lubavitch.

  • 121. Freddy wrote:

    I think the problem is Chaim Tzvi. He breeds all these Meshugoim. Anyone who tries to change our religion PUBLICLY and embarrasses the Rebbis memory should be put into CHEREM.

    Thank you Rabbi Telsner! We need more like you to weed out the crap. This is not a Melbourne issue. In New York you need to follow Melbournes footsteps before Chabad is totally demolished. One of the fellows who dance in Melbourne each morning (son of Alex) is not even Shomer Shabbos!

  • 122. Confused????!!!!!????? wrote:

    Anyone else notice their hypocrisy?
    first they have a seuda on a fast day because “moshiach has already arrived” then they make “Kiddush” (like the boy in the story who wants the apple so he makes a bracha and his father has no choice but to give him the apple because otherwise it will be a bracha levalata) Kiddush on Geulah so it shouldn’t be a bracha levatala and to force I suppose the father/Hashem to send the geulah/apple
    why ask for the apple/geulah if you already are celebrating having moshiach by not fasting?

  • 123. Shirley wrote:

    The problem is that all are scared from these Moshiachist terrorists. They have proven that anyone in their way gets knocked down. Rabbi Telsner was the first Shaliach who had the gutts to stand up to them.

  • 124. Sarale wrote:

    I am appalled at the way people are writing on this site. Where is ahavas yisroel? where is achdus? where is compassion? there are people in Chabad who are confused. The world is very dark now. We do not physically see the Rebbe and that is extremely hard for all chabadnikim. Some people have gone to an extreme out of distress, confusion and desperation. I dont think we have to judge them. We do have to stand up for what is right and for kiddush Hashem and kiddush shem Lubavitch…..but to put people into cherem is not necessarily the solution here. Is that what the Rebbe woudl advocate? I dont think so honestly.
    I think we all have to do some soul searching and really try to unite even with all the meshichistim, because even though they carry their “beliefs’ to an extreme, nevertheless they are trying to bring about the revelation of Moshiach, albeit in a misguided, wrong manner….but we all have to be understanding and certainly not to shun believing in Moshiach or that the Rebbe is Moshiach. That is not called ”crazy”. What is crazy is only the way these beliefs are being implemented.

  • 128. STUNNED wrote:

    Are you crazy? you would egg these people you are by far worse than them!!!!

  • 129. you don-t know us wrote:

    Anyone who turns on Rabbi Telzner or the Melbourne community DOESN’T KNOW MELBOURNE!!!

    For years the meshichistim and anti- meshichistim here have lived together in relative peace.
    These crazies do NOT represent the community.
    Rabbi Telzner is not responsible for their behaviour.

    Hey don’t forget Rabbi Telzner is relatively new here himself.

  • 130. antimesira wrote:

    Texas man wrote:

    “How can a holy concept like waiting for Moshiach that the Rebbe pushed be hijacked and used as a political football by these Messianic Jews??”

    Because we stood in silence and let it happen.
    Have you read some of the self righteous comments above, justifying and excusing this craziness, well that what we have all been doing for the last 15 years. We thought maybe it would just go away by itself. We were wrong.

  • 131. Your choice wrote:

    It is very simple!

    – Do you believe Hashem will choose the Moshiach he wants and send him when he likes.


    – Do you believe mass hysteria and American style brainwashing plus flags plus lapel pins plus signs and the Yechi chanting will give you your preferred candidate and he will come when you decide and Hashem has nothing to do with it! (oops- sorry!! He is already here according to the ‘real’ chassiddim!)

  • 132. TO SUM IT ALL UP wrote:

    For years, these guys were encouraged by the melbourne meshichist lubavitcher community. All the years Alex was used and controlled by the meshichist establishment to be the meshichist attack dog, and he was rewarded and praised for it. I will not mention names in public but he is a product of certain big names in the melbourne community who did not have the guts to walk around screaming yechi themselves becuase they were worried about their own reputations so they made him do it for them. It is your encouragement over the years that has led to this, you are responsible.

  • 133. Antimesira Responds wrote:

    Shocked! What-s the connection? wrote:

    “Hey! why is this such a hot topic with so many comments?
    Is that what Lubavitch is all heated up about?
    If you really want to do what is right, one thing forsure is not to ridicule others. This is total Lashon Harah!

    Anyway, how can a rov put someone like this into Cheirem? How about someone who does not keep Shabbos and some other very important Halachos? What’s the difference? Can someone explain this to me?”

    I hope this will help you with your query.

    “And the children struggled together within her… And she went to inquire of the G-d… And the G-d said to her: ‘Two nations are in your womb.’ ” (25:22-23)
    QUESTION: Rashi explains: When Rivkah passed a house of Torah learning, Yaakov struggled to emerge. When she passed a place of idol worship, Eisav struggled to come out. This perplexed her, and she went to inquire about it. A message was conveyed to her through Shem that she was carrying two children.
    Why did this information calm her?

    The Rebbe answers (Likutei Sichos Vol. 1, p183ff.)
    The prophet Eliyahu held a debate with the false prophets of Ba’al during which he challenged them: “How long will you waver between two opinions”. If Hashem is the G-d, follow Him! And if it is the Ba’al, follow him” (1 Kings, 18:21). One may wonder how Eliyahu was able to utter such an option.
    The Rebbe explains the difference between outright idolatry and idolatry which is fence-sitting. Outright idolatry means a person really believes he benefits from his idol. A fence-sitter is in doubt – either he’s unsure as to what to believe in, or he believes in Hashem plus something else.

    The Rebbe continues and says, that wavering between two opinions is in many ways WORSE than outright idolatry. GENERALLY, outright idolatry is worse of course. But in terms of TESHUVA, the fence-sitter is worse because it’s harder for him to do Teshuva fully.


    1) Because someone who once believed in idolatry, who realizes he was wrong, can fully do Teshuva. The one who wavers and believes in Hashem plus something else or doubts, doesn’t do a full Teshuva because he claims he always believed in G-d.
    I.e. He is uncertain whether he sinned in the first place.

    2) The one who fully believes in idolatry can be a spiritual individual, just a misguided spiritual individual.

    But the one who wavers shows that not only is he not interested in the true G-d, but he is spiritually insensitive. Although he knows Hashem is G-d, he is still willing to give idols some credit, thinking he’ll benefit in some way. Even when he realizes the truth, he does Teshuva only because of personal gain.
    I.e. He is willing to compromise some of his religious beliefs for the sake of convenience or social pressure (his spirituality is corrupted by materialism).

    3) The one who wavers leads others astray because it is not clear that he is a heretic (for he knows how to quote a Pussuk in Chumish, a word from a Mammer or Sicho etc.. he speaks the language). The idol-worshiper, however, is an outright heretic and is thus an outcast that does not effect the Community. I.e. nobody gets confused by him.
    At the outset, Rivkah thought she was carrying one child who was confused, unable to distinguish between right and wrong, and thus, G-d forbid, capable of running in a different direction each day. Informed that she would give birth to two children, she was relieved, because she could now hope to convince the other child to emulate his righteous brother.









  • 135. NoYechi770Jerusalem wrote:

    BTW,Rabbi Telsner was not the first shaliach to stand up to them Rabbi Aron Lieberman in Fort Lauderdale,Florida was a few years back,only difference is Rabbi Lieberman did it the right way by having Vaad Rabbonei Lubavitch issue a ksav siruv against the meshugenehs.

  • 136. confused wrote:

    Can someone please explain to me:

    Both Reb Chaim Tzvi Groner and Rabbi Telsner, the “leaders” of the chabad community in Melbourne are well known to be Messianist Chabad. Their children walk around with “Yechi Adoneinu Moreinu verabeinu melech hamoshiach leolam Vaed” written on their kippot. This is behaviour is blatant violation of Halacha (Jewish halacha at least, I don’t know about Chabad halacha, I’ve never really studied it).

    Anyway, to eat on a fast day is also a blatant violation of halacha. I don’t see a difference between these two types of halachic violations and neither do any of my halachic advisors.

    So can someone please explain to me the difference between rabbi Groner and rabbi telsners messianism and the messianisim of these 3 Jews on the video?

  • 137. Thank You Rabbi Telsner wrote:

    Rabbi Telsner!

    Thanks for finally taking a stand on these mislead fools!

    Your actions will benefit chabad, the yeshivah centre and allow people to realise that this madness is not part of chabad chassidus!


    Please! Enough is enough!

  • 138. ex yeshivah student wrote:

    Is that the guy with the white beard who used to say “Yechi….Omain” in the melbourne lubavitch kollel?

    I used to have a shiur there but not anymore (because of him, really).

    Does this mean he won’t be saying yechi there anymore?

    What about the sign in the shul?

  • 139. Not Eggs!! wrote:

    These fellows are according to Halocha APIKORSIM. Doesn’t the Halocha say that you should STONE an apikoras if he keeps trying to peddle his wares tro other jews.

    So I agree do not throw eggs- THROW STONES AT THEM until they accept that Moshiach is a holy concept as the Rebbi zt”l taught us, and only Hashem can end this Golus and send us Moshiach- no clown hats etc.

  • 140. I am a MISHICHIST!!!!! wrote:

    They’re Elokistim, not Mishichistim!!!
    The two never had any connection!!!
    It’s like the snags posting this story saying: “look where Lubavitch has lead them”. Obviously that’s a distortion, and so is any connection to Mishichistim!

  • 141. yankel wrote:

    (PS, VERY GOOD)If they came from “affluent” families, had money.they would never have been banned from Yeshivah Shule.
    So the Yechi sign will never come down
    plus half of the Vad Ruchnius are supporting the SIGN and YECHI

  • 142. Yisroel wrote:

    To confused.
    Wearing a yechi yarmulke is not a blatant disregard to Halacha.

  • 143. es wrote:

    its interesting how this abbarent behavior of a handful of individuals gets press and everyone has what to say , but when there are Moshiach and Geula shabbatons which draw hundreds and are full of uplifiting, positive and sincere messages about Geula which are attended by Rabbonim and shluchim it never gets a mention at all.

  • 144. a Yid wrote:

    wake up this is how all yiden arond the wold see lubavitch for the last 15 years this is a mesage from heaven to stop
    and mishichiston to make a real chashbon hanafesh

  • 146. Levi wrote:

    These crazies were a blessing in disguise. Hashem has sent them as a clear message that we should all stop dabbling with who is/will be moshiach and return to basic concepts of yiddishkeit or history will judge us as fools.
    Playing with fire you eventually get burnt.

    Lets focus once again on the Mivtzoyim and stop playing ‘the Rebbi is Moshiach game’.

  • 147. Ad Moisa wrote:

    True Chassidim are in pain!

    Now people are slowly feeling more confident to express their real opinions and not following like sheep the troublemakers.

    Only Peoples Power will stop the Moshiach Madness.

    Take the sign down NOW!!!

  • 149. a NISAYON 4 THE NORMAL M-s wrote:

    I am a proud! well-versed, MISHICHIST!

    THESE clowns are sincere shotim!

    all the antis CELEBRATING THIS “SOO-GLEEFULLY” you are soo transparant!

    you all know full-well the extreme differance between

    They’re Elokistim, not Mishichistim!!!
    The two never had any connection!!!
    It’s like the snags posting this story saying: “look where Lubavitch has lead them”. Obviously that’s a distortion, and so is any connection to 99% OF NORMAL-Mishichistim!

  • 150. I hope its no too late wrote:

    I too like many mentioned above have become very disgruntled with Chabad Chassidus in the last 15 years. I must admit, that I too thought this craziness would die down in the months after the histalkus (YES THE HISTALKUS-IT DID HAPPEN AS MUCH AS I HATE IT AND WE ALL DO-BUT…) If we do not admit to the histalkus, or say Yechi etc. etc. this is only an outgrowth of 15 years of silence and letting these festers bloom.

  • 151. The Tragedy in 770 wrote:

    The Tragedy in 770 [2 Kislev 5767]

    Rabbi Dovid Eliezrie

    A moment of glory and pride turned to embarrassment and sadness on Sunday night. Over three and half thousand Schluchim and guests celebrated the banquet of the Kinus with pride and commitment to the Rebbe. Rabbi Moshe Kotlarksy recalled the first Kinus when Rabbi Sholom Posner asked each of us to introduce ourselves which became as time went on the famous roll call. For some like myself who has watched the evolution of the Kinus from a small group to the powerhouse it was a special moment of Chassideshe Nachas.

    That moment of joy was shattered later that night by a group hat has made violence and terror their symbol. When many of the Shluchim returned to 770 to farbreng. Some members of the Kvutza from Tzefas tried to interfere with the Farbrengen, the Shluchim continued ignoring them. Finally they attacked those who have spent decades as the Rebbe’s Shluchim. Throwing benches, sidurim and using fists. They broke the leg of a Baal Mesrias Nefesh who went recently to the remote country of Vietnam to spread Yiddiskiet.

    Are any of us proud of 770 today. Or do we cringe with distaste when we walk in and see how craziness has become dominant. Do we invite our Mekurvim or do we fear that they will share bad feelings and it will cause them to loose respect for Lubavitch. A few months ago a doctor and his son from our community decided to stop by 770 during a visit to New York. There they where accosted by this group. When they returned they asked me “has Lubavitch gone crazy?”

    Shabbos in Shul in 770 I had a conversation with some of the Anash from Crown Heights. They where quite disturbed with what has been going on there. When I challenged them “do something, you live here” there response was telling. “Listen, we work hard, we come home we want to have a few moments with our families and open a sefer”. We don’t like what’s going on, but what can we do?

    The Germara says Shitka Keodaah Dami. Its not just Anash in Crown Heights, the sad truth is we are all guilty of this. Our silence and passivity has allowed this happen. We have permitted a distortion of Chassidus, a corruption of everything the Rebbe held dear. A week is growing that is destroying Lubavitch. All of us, Anash, Shluchim, Rabbonim sit by on the side as a small group of Bachurim use violence to impose their radical agenda on the rest of the community.

    In Lubavitch there is an attitude of acceptance to every Jew. Maybe we should be “melamed Zechus,” our inaction is a product of this ideology of Ahavas Yisroel. But we have to ask ourselves a question, when does that acceptance undermine the very foundations or our community? Be it due to our tolerance, our apathy or our fear of their violence we have abdicated our responsibility as Chassidim. For years we have stood on the sidelines, afraid to confront this immorality in our midst.

    Some say “what can we do” others say “its just a small group so what’s the big deal”. Others claim “don’t worry with time it will go away”. Let’s face the truth it’s not going away. The lesson of Sunday night is that this group feels that they are the Bala Batim in 770. They act brazenly without respect to anyone, be it rabbonim, older Shluchim or Anash. They are a law unto themselves.

    To Read the rest visit:

  • 152. The -Snag- in all of us wrote:

    “My point is, that a Snag can come along and say the same thing about Lubavitch as a whole, that “look what it led to”… And just like you would say that “he went off the ways of Lubavitch”… So why can’t the Mishichistim say the same?
    And no, I”m in no way shape or form trying to justify this wacko (i don’t know where you deduced that from)!”


    Then I would ask this “snag”*, what, when, where and why?
    If he has a point, then I must admit (and correct my wrong), otherwise anybody can say anything and so what?
    If an individual or group is making a Chillul Hashem, I don’t care who he or they are, it’s still a Chillul Chashem. If he or they are Lubavitchers then he’s/they making a Chillul Lubavitch and a mockery of the Lubavitcher Rebbe (and all of Chassidis). By the way, not every time somebody gives “criticism” is he a “snag”, if this person giving criticism is right then you have make a Cheshbon Nefesh.

    Unfortunately the mishichistim associated themselves to Chabad and (try) to hijack the Lubavitcher Rebbe. Baroch Hashem Ze L’umate ze, Chabad (The Rebbes Chabad) is growing in leaps and bounds. “a little light pushes away a lot off darkness”.

    Know this, the essentials (the essence; the bias) of Chabad Lubavitch are perfect. The Chassidim are something else, That why I am not a Chassid of Chassidim but of the Rebbe (the Rebbe that represents Torah, shulchan Aruch etc…)

    When you don’t know your facts, when you don’t have the proper knowledge (understanding) and background, meaning you did not learn enough, then yes, you will get confused by the “sang”* and yes, the “snag” may be right (at that moment).

    *Snag- There is a “sang” in each and everyone of us; there are also “Snags” who live amongst us, pretending to be like us (In this article they are called “mishichistim”).

  • 153. Bais Moshiach wrote:

    The Rebbe MH’M said you have to be crazy about moshiach
    that means you have to do everything, even be crazy if it makes moshiach come or be here already.

    when your on a mission like this, who has time to open a shulchan aruch (like the story with the arizal, when he asked his followers to go to yerusalyim etc..)

    Yechi Hamelech.
    Moshiach is already here!
    come join me in Ibiza a.k.a. gan eden

  • 154. A True believer wrote:

    Listen, the man is wrong and is going against Shulchan Aruch, but I will give credit were credit is due. At least hes doing what he believes (again, what he believes is wrong).
    Anybody who Prides themselves and considers himself a Mesichist should and most do what he does. That is if they are TRUE believers.

    Otherwise your not a true meshichist and just another phony, faker and pretender doing whats good for you.

  • 155. Rambam: II wrote:

    [Anybody can go and learn the Rambam for himself.
    Unfortunately, you will find that many of the Halochos of Avodas Zhora apply to the Mishichistem.]

    We must all ask ourselves, What makes this any worse then all the other Mishugasim (craziness) that have been happening since 27 of Adar 1992. (Were “The wise people amongst them, such as the priests, imagined that there is no God”- <Rambam above – and started doing what they wised.)
    Why is this more wrong then anything (starting with Yechi) leading up to this?
    Did this start over night?
    How did these people come to these conclusions?
    Were did they get this type of Chutzpa do make a mockery of our Rebbe?

    The answer is that this did not start yesterday; this did not start like this. “The end is wedged in the beginning”.

    If the Mishichist can go and publish whole books and magazines making a Mockery of the Rebbes Sichos, why can’t they with the same philosophy go do this?

  • 156. All the same!!!! wrote:

    a NISAYON 4 THE NORMAL M-s wrote:
    I am a proud! well-versed, MISHICHIST!

    the extreme differance between

    They’re Elokistim, not Mishichistim!!!
    SORRY! I have news for you!

    These clowns are MISHICHISTIM (same as you) but as you say they are attention seekers, so they expose the crazy ideas of all of you. Don’t label them as something different than yourselves just because they expose how crazy you ALL are!!

  • 157. Rambam: wrote:


    Chapter One

    1) In the days of Enosh, the people deviated, and the counsel of the wise people degenerated into stupidity. Enosh himself was amongst those who deviated. Their mistaken reasoning was that since God created the skies and spheres as part of nature, and placed them high up [in the skies], and gave them dignity, and that they are servants who serve Him, it would be appropriate to laud, glorify and honor them as well. It is the will of the Almighty to make great and to dignify those who make Him great and honor Him, in the same way that a king wants to honor the servants who serve him – such is the honor of a king. Once this matter was decided upon, they proceeded to build temples to the stars, to bring sacrifices to them, to laud and glorify them verbally and to bow down to them, in order to attain [by these means] the will of the Creator by their opinions, which were evil. This was the core of idolatry, but the knowledgeable worshippers did not deny the existence of God by saying that only such-and-such a star exists. This is what Jeremiah said: “Who would not fear You, King of the nations? For to you it is fitting, for among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms there is none like you. Stupid and senseless are they all – the teaching of their vain idols is but wood!”; that is to say that everyone knows that just God exists, but their mistake and foolishness was to imagine that idolatry was God’s will.

    2) After some time, prophets of falsehood arose, and said that the Almighty had commanded them to serve such-and-such a star, to bring sacrifices to it, to offer drink sacrifices to it and to build a temple containing its form to it, in order that all people -including women, children and ignoramuses – will be able to bow down to it. Each of these prophets made known a form which he had invented himself, and claimed that it was the form of such-and-such a star which had been made known to him in a prophecy. In this manner, people started to make figures in the temples, under trees and on the tops of mountains and hills, and they congregated and bowed down to them. The prophets said that it was a form which brought good and bad, and that it was fitting to serve and fear it. The prophets said that through this service one will multiply and be successful, and issued instructions concerning what may and may not be done. Other prophets of falsehood began to make themselves known, and said that the star itself, or a sphere or angel, had spoken to them about how to be served, and what may or may not be done. This matter, namely the worship of forms in different manners, the offering of sacrifices to them and the bowing down to them, became propagated throughout the whole world. Owing to the passage of time, the honored and fear-inducing Name was forgotten by all of nature, and was not recognized. Everybody, women and children included, knew only their forms of wood and stone, and the temples of stone, which, from childhood, they had been educated to bow down to, worship and take the name of for oaths. The wise people amongst them, such as the priests, imagined that there is no God, but only the stars and spheres, because of whom they made representative figures. But as for the Creator, there was not a single person who recognized Him, except for various individuals, such as Hanoch, Methuselah, Noah, Shem and Eber. Things continued in this manner until Abraham the Patriarch, supporter of the world, was born.

  • 158. an observer wrote:

    Taking matters out of context – is always dangerous and destructive. When you look closely at the Rebbe MH“M’s holy words, you will find that he did indeed say all the things that they quote in the video. However, when it came to actual practice – he himself fasted on every single fast day – along with all the other chassidim in 770! There is one thing to believe in the holy words of the Rebbe, and quite another to act in ways that the Rebbe himself never did – (and surely would not approve.) This same case-in-point can be made for all those who follow minhogim that the Rebbe instituted for Yud Shevat – and say that ”this is what the Rebbe would surely want for himself“?! Who did he tell this to? Who can draw conclusions – for the Rebbe – and make ”decrees” in his name?
    The Rebbe said moshiach is ready to be revealed – in a millisecond, but…this unfortunately still didn’t happen yet.

  • 159. to all the same wrote:

    a source for what your saying or is that some sort of (gollol) you are leaning about in gemora?

  • 160. Honesty wrote:

    The Rebbe MH’M said you have to be crazy about moshiach
    that means you have to do everything, even be crazy if it makes moshiach come or be here already.

    Sorry it does NOT mean that at all!

    Please stop putting silly words in the Rebbis mouth.You need to be ‘crazy’ about Moshiach, not to do other crazy things that you imagine will bring Moshiach. If Moshiach is here you claim the Rebbe said also to do crazy things.

    You fellows are one big lie!

  • 162. This must be mental illness... wrote:

    Look around you, people who believe Moshiach is ALREADY HERE…Look around at all the TZOROS, the TRAGEDIES, the SUFFERING that goes on every day, we keep hearing about one tragedy after another, R’L, and you dare say Moshiach is here, let’s celebrate?? IS THIS THE MOSHIACHDIK TIMES WE’VE ALL BEEN WAITING FOR, FOR CENTURIES? The ONLY way i can explain your misguided beliefs is unfortunate mental instability… nebach. I mean it.

  • 163. Rachel from Sydney wrote:

    Moshiach is supposed to bring peace and Tranquillity not Machloykas, heart ache, embarrasment and Mesira as the current Mishiachistim are causing!!!

  • 164. confused wrote:

    To Yisroel:

    You say that it is not against Halacha to have “Yechi Adoneinu moreinu verabeinu melech hamoshiyach leolam vaed” (blatant referal to the Lubavitcher Rebbe as the Moshiach) written on one’s yarmulka. Please find me one credible (non lubavitch) posek or Halachic authority that allows this or any other type of advocation that the Lubavitcher Rebbe Zatzal is Moshiach.

    I have no doubt there are many Chabad sources. But I don’t think you will find any respected Jewish (mainstream) authority allowing this type of kfira.

    If you find one, please let me know. I’d be VERY interested.

    Until you do, you must admit that if a group within Judaisim is doing something that NO halachic authority outside that group permits, then obviously that group is functioning outside the boundries of Jewish law.

    I do not refer to Chabad as a whole G-d forbid, I refer to only Messianist Chabad, that they are a law unto themselves and perhaps, as many people put it, the closest religion to Judaisim.

    Furthermore, no one has yet explained to me why Rav Telsner and Rav CT Groner, heads of Chabad in Melbourne and part of Messianist Chabad, who say “Yechi…Melech Hamoshiyach”, and who’s children wear it on their kippot, not to mention the sign hanging in their shul – all blatant violations of halacha – Why is their violation of halacha any different to the guys who violated halacha by eating on a fast day?!

    To me its all the same madness and kefira!

  • 165. who are you kidding wrote:

    “and can only serve to destroy the good name of Chabad in the general community”

    The good name of chabad was destroyed in Melbourne the moment they put up the yechi sign in the Chabad shul

  • 166. RY wrote:

    About the yechi sign… During the college shabbaton I had some of the kids ask me what it said/meant… How are you supposed to explain that without making the entire Lubavitch network sound insane? If that’s what you believe, then fine, but don’t make believe that all of Chabad is that way. To have a yechi sign in 770 brands all of Lubavitch, take it down.

  • 167. Lacking Understanding wrote:

    I cannot understand why this whole thread is headed with a title that is simply not true. As anyone who is halachically knowledgeable or who lives in Melbourne knows, not only were these people NOT put into Cherem, they COULD NOT be as a result of what transpired.

    What is wrong with everyone anyway that they are feasting on this issue with a blood lust akin to that of specators at gladiatorial games or at the lynchings of old?

    If the people in question are imbalanced, then rachmanas on them. If they are misinformed then let’s focus on disseminating information more clearly and really supporting ba’sal teshuvas in their learning. If the people are well intentioned renegades then at least they are well intentioned as opposed to the millions who say they want Moshiach but continue in their complacent ways only too happy to ignore The Rebbe’s directive to increase in acts of kindness and as we see in this blog and so many others on the net, contrigute to this travesty/ loshon hora fest.
    if you are 1000% sure of your own views then simply ignore these people just as you do so many others.

    How many people do aveiras with full consciousness but their deeds do not get plastered on blogs on the net? I have friends who are divorced and who have been propositioned by frum married men. Am I to believe these men were unaware their behaviour was wrong? Do those who cheat in business and cause a huge chillum Hashem amongst their gentile associates not know that to lie and steal is wrong?

    Why does this blog even need to be? If someone wants to know the halacha then they can speak to their own rav or discuss the matter in an objective non malicious way in private with their own mashpiah. Why is the official site of CH now a forum for sanctioned loshon hora?

    To those who are criticizing the well intentioned for their attempts to encourage the world to see Moshiach, how do they justify the pointless gossip that is the antithesis of ahavas yisroel or creating sholom. How in heaven’s name will gossip and mallice help? Are we to sit in judgement of some yidden for which we too will be judged?

    Someone earlier referred to the quote “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone” and boy were they right. What an irony about the source!

    Anyone who GENUINELY wants to see improvement in the world, will stop adding fuel to this fire, apply themselves to creating peace and distance themselves from the online equivalent of gossiping on street corners.

    PLEASE !!!!!!!!! What we focus on grows!

  • 168. No Sympathy wrote:

    No, they are not halacha abiding Jews…(that is not halacha)

    Yes, the are Mishichistim (they say the rebbe is here as moshiach….no diff than the rest)

    No, we shouldn’t practice “ahavas yisroel” and let them be, to the detriment of chabad, our communities, and the chillul hashem it causes.

    Yes, we need to publicise it now (when its 2-3 ppl) to stop it from going to far like in 770..

  • 169. Good on ya wrote:

    Good on Ya Rabbi Telsner for being the first to take a real stand.

    Good on ya for posting (so that at least some in CH might learn that you can’t just create your own religion in the name of chabad)

  • 170. Shut Up already!!!! wrote:

    To: Lacking Understanding

    In short what your saying in a most politically correct manner is…
    Shut up!!! Let them do what they want.
    You have no right to express your opinion, only the mishichistim researve that right.

    You all (all of you) are hateful for expressing your opinion. While the mishichistim are given a pass for DOING (not just saying and writing), what their doing.

    Practice what your preach in your own home, invite these people to your house with your wife and kids and try to implement everything you suggested in your self righteous comment.
    You see my friend, the problem is that we have been quit and have been using your “peaceful” way all these years, where has that gotten us?

  • 171. I was there wrote:

    The yechi sign on the back of yeshivah shul was put up in 1992 by a Y.G. bochur without permission for a rally. It was only because someone tore it down angrily that rabbi groner got upset and said it should go back up(because this guy was a troublemaker and an anti groner and the chutzpah of tearing it off angered groner).

    BTW that YG bochur today is not frum…

  • 172. they are onto telsner wrote:

    the non chabad websites are onto Telsner like flies on dung….

    Theyve found the 2004 psak din that he signed saying the rebbe is moshiach

    to them its like the biggest joke. it is a bit hypocritical though,you must admit they have a point…..

  • 173. divorced wrote:

    Sometimes “ahavas yisroel” means a divorce.

    It’s time we have “ahavas yisroel” and divorce ourselves from mishichistim.
    Yes, live and let live, let them go open their own schools and Chesed etc… etc… But not with us. It would be the best thing.

    But of course they don’t want that, they want what is not theirs, they want to take whats yours.

    They are like the husband who beats his wife and refuses to give a Get. I would tell that husband that for the sake of “ahavas yisroel” he should give a Get and let everyone move on.

  • 174. the truth wrote:

    if they don’t take down the yechi sign, yeshivah shul will just get emptier and emptier….

    this is consistent with meshichist theology – be merachek as many jews as possible….

  • 175. an observer wrote:

    I keep seeing and hearing about “this craziness” or this “kfira” or “this apikorsursus” etc. etc.

    However, one only has to look and listen to countless hours of recordings and videos and published sichos to see for themselves that the Rebbe HIMSELF referred to the freirdiker Rebbe – EVEN MUCH after yud shevat 5710, as alive and here in the present tense!
    Is that also “craziness”? Is that also “kfira”?
    While you’re working on an answer – figure this out too;
    If the Rebbe did not “approve” of the singing of yechi – why did he not immediately stop it when it was first sung almost a year before 27 adar 1, 5752?
    Were there not other times that the Rebbe saw and heard things that he did not approve of – and came out against them?
    If, you have no problem relating to the Rebbe on gimmel tammuz – just like he related to the freirdiker Rebbe on yud shevat, why can’t you relate to the Rebbe JUST LIKE he himself referred to the frierdiker Rebbe after yud shevat?

  • 176. YIDDISHE MAMA wrote:


    Many children just can’t hack it!

    I cry where nobody sees!!!

  • 177. My Teffila - Raizy wrote:

    Their has never been so much tragedy!
    Azoulay-Rubashnik- Matzav in Eretz Yisrael-Iran-Obama-Haiti etc. etc. Now is no time to celebrate.
    We need to fast and beg Hashem to end this difficult Goulas with so many of our youth leaving the derech.

    May Hashem have Rachmonas on Kllal Yisroel and send us soon HIS CHOICE of Moshiach speedily in our days. Amen

  • 178. Chana wrote:


    Your choice wrote:
    It is very simple!

    – Do you believe Hashem will choose the Moshiach he wants and send him when he likes.


    – Do you believe mass hysteria and American style brainwashing plus flags plus lapel pins plus signs and the Yechi chanting will give you your preferred candidate and he will come when you decide and Hashem has nothing to do with it! (oops- sorry!! He is already here according to the ‘real’ chassiddim!)

  • 179. Ad Moisa wrote:

    Many young ex Moshiachistim are no longer frum and this will continue until the leadership totally stops all the Rebbe is Moshiach nonsence.

    Every normal young kid knows its all a sick joke. Lets not point the finger at the ones who party on a fast day but the others who some think are semi normal. I fear for these.

  • 180. Ben Mechel- New York wrote:

    Well this narisha “Make the Rebbe Meshiach” campaign has caused more to leave yiddishkeit than you can imagine!

    Also the huge Machlokas this campaign has caused.

    Rebbi Rebbi why have you forsaken us and let these pusta chevra try to hijack your beautiful Chassidus??

    Hob Shoyn Rachmonas on the normal ones who are sufferring so much embarrasment!


    I know the 2 ( not 3 ) clowns for many years, they are misfits, they love atention & are probably delighted of all the atention they are geting,
    The sign in the shul has long been forgotin, only now it came up again,
    as said above we are dealing with 2 yes 2 misfits.

  • 184. wondering in Eretz Yisroel wrote:

    I wonder if they will also have an easter egg hunt on Pesach and rename The Baal Shem Tov’s seuda The Last Supper and say that the matzah is the Rebbe’s body and the wine his blood?


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