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Mumps Virus Alert: Dr Rosen Addresses Outbreak

In an update Dr Eli Rosen released, he answers many frequently asked questions about the recent mumps outbreak in Crown Heights. The doctor states that the outbreak is “of unprecedented proportion.”



Mumps in Crown Heights, An Update
For the past 4 months we have been witnessing an outbreak of mumps of unprecedented proportion in the Crown Heights community. We are not alone in this: Boro Park, Williamsburg and other heimishe communities are also affected. This illness has spread to yeshivas out of town but at this time has not spread into those communities, thank G“d.

What is Mumps and how does it spread?
Mumps spreads by respiratory droplets through infected saliva that can be released when an infected person coughs or sneezes or just talks loudly close by. Symptoms include fever, body aches, headaches, and swelling of the salivary glands (the gland just below the ear). There is no effective treatment for mumps. The incubation period is a long one, about 21 days, the reason this epidemic has been so drawn out. Individuals with mumps may be infectious even a day or two before becoming sick. Exposed individuals are most likely to be infectious 10”24 days after exposure.

Is this epidemic caused by a new strain of mumps?
No, the current epidemic is caused by mumps strain G which is one of the strains included in the vaccine that has been available for the last 50 years.

Is the mumps vaccine effective?
Yes, despite my earlier concerns that the vaccine may have been ineffective, it appears that the best possible way to be protected remains receiving 2 doses of vaccine. However, the vaccine does not always “take” and since there is a “wear“ off” phenomenon, this allows for even vaccinated individuals to contract the mumps.

Children who have been given a dose of MMR at age 1 and again at age 4 seem to be protected in the vast majority of cases up until around age 12.

Beyond age 12 (including adults) immunity seems to wear off to levels that are not protective in a significant percentage of individuals.

Vaccinated individuals, primarily children, who contract the mumps are less prone to develop the complications of mumps (orchitis, meningitis, deafness).

Who is being most affected by the current epidemic?
Males are being much more frequently affected than females. Over the past few weeks, young adults (parents and teachers) seem to be contracting the illness at increasing rates. Unfortunately, adults are more prone to develop the complications of mumps than children.

Is Mumps Vaccine Available?
Vaccine is available in plentiful supply in a preparation combined with measles and rubella called MMR . There is no single component (“plain mumps vaccine”) available

Is MMR vaccine safe?
MMR is a safe vaccine although it cannot be used in pregnancy and in a few other medical conditions. Women who receive the vaccine should avoid getting pregnant for at least 28 days following vaccination. Individuals who manifest “full”blown emergency type” allergic symptoms to eggs should not take the vaccine.

Is there a reaction to the MMR vaccine?
MMR vaccine does cause some individuals, particularly adults, to have a brief flu“like illness usually one week following vaccination.

MMR and Autism?
In the past, there have been questions regarding autism and MMR. These questions were raised 14 years ago by Dr. Wakefield in England. Since then, he has been thoroughly discredited, his study withdrawn and numerous subsequent studies have shown no causative relationship between MMR and autism. However, because of this bogus but very popular research, vaccination rates have dropped and there has been a resurgence of the illness.

A recent outbreak of measles (an illness much more severe than mumps) in England has resulted in some serious consequences. The current “fashion” of not vaccinating children is clearly having an effect on the incidence of these diseases. In the presence of many infected individuals the virus can spread to those who are vaccinated, and as vaccination rates drop, the situation becomes more tenuous.

Why are vaccinated individuals contracting mumps?
There are 2 possible factors for this: waning of immunity with time and the large viral load present under epidemic conditions which seems to overwhelm the immune response.

Is a third dose of MMR effective?
It is my contention that a third dose of MMR is necessary to stem this epidemic in all older children and adults who have been previously vaccinated and have had recent close exposure.

Has a third dose been approved for use by the health authorities?
Unfortunately, not at this time. As such, it cannot be routinely given to those who have clear evidence of having received 2 doses of MMR.

Am I susceptible to Mumps?
Traditionally, we have used an IGG antibody blood test to determine immunity to mumps. Unfortunately, it would appear that this blood test (with the values used in the past) is not an accurate predictor of susceptibility to mumps. It is unclear at this time whether readjusting the normal range or refining the test will help us decide which individuals require another dose of MMR.

It is my contention that robust antibody levels (i.e. those higher than the normal cutoff) may be useful in determining who should receive a booster dose among those who have previously received 2 doses of vaccine.

What about being vaccinated after exposure?
Previously, it was stated that vaccination after exposure was not beneficial (too little, too late). However, with the current epidemic, the health authorities have approved the administration of vaccine for those who were recently exposed to a case of mumps and are unvaccinated or unsure of their vaccination status.

Individuals who have had mumps and those born before 1957 are considered immune.

Recommendations:

Get Vaccinated

Everyone under the age of 50 who has not received 2 doses of MMR or has no record of past immunization, should receive a booster dose of MMR as soon as possible, especially if they are parents or teachers.

Your personal physician has access to vaccine and there is currently no shortage. Vaccine has been made available by NY City for administration to people 10 years and older. Please refer to the sites listed at the end of this update.

What to Do For an Individual Infected with Mumps

1. Individuals with Mumps should be strictly quarantined.
2. Cover the mouth and nose with a tissue when coughing or sneezing.
3. Wash hands frequently with soap and water.
4. There is no effective treatment for Mumps. Rest, fluids, analgesia are helpful.

What to do if you are exposed to Mumps

Individuals with mumps are infectious 2”3 days prior to the onset of the illness. Check your immunization status and receive vaccination if you were not previously vaccinated.

Unfortunately, as stated earlier, 2 doses of vaccine in the distant past are absolutely no guarantee of protection. Blood tests for antibody levels can still be useful in determining the need for another dose of vaccine.

Quarantine

The practice of quarantine has been forgotten largely due to the success of the vaccination program. However, with a resurgence of illness, we urgently need to reinstitute the practice of quarantine.

Any individual who suspects he/she may have the mumps, should be considered infectious until the situation becomes clear.

For at least the first five days of the illness, those in the above group and those with mumps should stay home, not go to shul or yeshiva, remove themselves from a dormitory situation and be quarantined, either with other mumps cases or alone.

Children from homes where the parents do not vaccinate, must be considered infectious any time between 10“24 days after exposure and should be kept out of school for this time period. As long as those with the illness continue to mingle with the “herd”, the illness will persist.

Lastly, something has to be said at this juncture about the concept of herd immunity. Due to lay opposition to appropriate vaccination of our children and admission of these unvaccinated children into our school system, there has been a decline in herd immunity which may be one of the reasons why we are witnessing the current outbreak.

Even though vaccination of all children clearly has its costs and as we see not all vaccination confers life”time immunity, the healthcare authorities unequivocally recommend vaccination of all children. Hopefully, by vaccinating our children we will not allow for the epidemic spread of preventable diseases in our community.

With my prayers that this epidemic will soon end,

Eli Rosen, MD

Free or Low Cost Vaccine Available

Williamsburg
Wednesday, February 17
2 pm – 10 pm
The Marquis
575 Bedford Avenue
(between Keap Street and Rodney Street)
Brooklyn, NY 11211

Borough Park
Thursday, February 18
2 pm – 10 pm
Anshe Sfard Hall
4502 14th Avenue
(between 45th Street and 46th Street)
Brooklyn, NY 11219

People over 10 can also receive free or at low-cost MMR vaccine at any of these health centers:

Williamsburg
Quality Health Center
432 Bedford Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11211
Call for times at 718-387-2408
ODA Health Center
14 Heyward Street,
Brooklyn, NY 11211
Call for times at 718-260-4600

Borough Park
Ezra Medical Center
1312 38th Street
Brooklyn, NY 11218
Call for times at 718-686-7600
Maimonides Medical Center Primary Care Site
1250 57th Street
Brooklyn, NY 11219
Call for times at 718-283-5700

46 Comments

  • 1. Interesting wrote:

    I guess not all doctors agree on this. Another Dr. said this is a different strain and vaccine won’t be protective. Reminds me of Rabbonim…

    Elderberry is antiviral and boosts the immune system. Mixed with honey and taken every hour, it should make a difference. Garlic is the greatest antiviral out there, but no ‘medical professional’ will even look into it. I asked a virologist, who studies viruses, if he even heard of garlic. You can guess the response. I have first, and second, hand experience with these herbs (most drugs originated as herbs- it’s not so ‘hokus pokus’)and encourage you all to use them, and challenge ‘professionals’ to make a double-blind study on their effects.

  • 2. STAY HOME wrote:

    I know each person has their reasons why they do or do not get their children vaccinated, but their reasoning for not keeping them home when they are sick for an extra 24 hours after signs of illness have disappeared is plain and simply cruel. Parents can be so selfish sometimes – yes, you need to go to work, but so do the rest of us and our kids don’t have to suffer because of your selfishness!

  • 3. mordy wrote:

    Interesting, Its people like you, who talk absolute rubbish that have caused this in the first place.

    Vaccination is the single most important way to stem diseases, now I have to worry about it because my last booster was 10 years ago.

    Please do the world a favor and stop trying to sell snake oil to cure the problems that you caused in the first place. MMR vaccinations are cheap, safe and effective, you dont even need a needle, whats your excuse??

  • 4. To interesting wrote:

    I hate to tell you this but alternative medicine methods have repeatedly been tested using double-blind studies. They consistently fail to show any benefit, whereas pharmaceuticals are rigorously tested for years in double-blind studies before they are allowed to be sold to the public.

    That is not to say that every single claim is invalid. I found two studies showing that Elderberry can alleviate the symptoms of two influenza strains. However, most of the alternative medical methods, like homeopathy, have been shown to not have any benefit. They tend to lack any scientific basis.

  • 5. druggy wrote:

    The drug vs home remedy debade ain’t so pushet.

    Take this advice: don’t jump to conclusions.

  • 6. CH Cynic wrote:

    @interesting

    Its a shame none of the homeopathic remedy makers will submit their product to the FDA for testing and approval… Oh, wait, its because they don’t work! Doh!

  • 7. mother wrote:

    These people who don’t believe in vaccinations are risking their own kids’ health. They don’t give a hoot about other people’s, but don’t they realize how irresponsible they are for their own families?

  • 8. jax wrote:

    Dear Interesting – it is because of your reliance on elderberry instead of vaccinations that the Mumps are back. The medical community had already taken care of this one thank you very much.

    Garlic is not an anti-viral – it is a food. And anti-biotics are not made from herbs. However perfume is made from herbs and i suggest you spray it on to avoid the mumps.

  • 9. Love Dr. Rosen but... wrote:

    If Dr. Rosen was really interested in ending this epidemic he would not accept patients who do not vaccinate their children in his practice. The schools have no choice but to accept those students, as long as they are healthy and under the regular care of a physician. A doctor can choose who he accepts in his practice.

  • 10. Not so poshet wrote:

    B“H

    It is generally not so simple to point the finger at the INDIVIDUAL from whom someone caught the germs for mumps, measles, and several other illnesses.

    Even when someone else in the house has a sickness first, the incubation period for a illness is long enough BEFORE SYMPTOMS, that later cases in the same family can easily have come from others than that other person in the house.

    So please stop the histrionics and dramatic accusations of ”killing someone else’s child“ (unless you’re a Rov or Dayan). Save that accusation for all the people who poison our kids with so much candy and soda at school, shul, etc. Or save that accusation for the schools that so often deprive our kids of fresh air and exercise.

    Remember: there’s no such thing as a vaccine for impetigo, tuberculosis, scarlet fever, many forms of meningitis, intestinal worms, and numerous other things that ”go around” in this country and other western societies.

  • 11. Do the right things; Hashem-s in charge wrote:

    As for this mumps situation, AGAIN REMEMBER — many who have caught it, had done everything their doctors had said, and been vaccinated for it!!!
    I make sure to vaccinate, but on a later schedule (starting several years after each child’s infancy, and only ONE series at a time), due to some family history of autoimmune disease.

    But even vaccination is not a guarantee. Hashem is in charge. We make a keili for brachahs by living as healthfully as possible. (And for some, such as those with the severe egg allergy, NOT vaccinating — at least with the MMR vaccine — is more healthful, obviously!) But ultimately after that, it’s not COMPLETELY up to us.

  • 12. Stop the attacks! wrote:

    Can’t we keep the debate on a higher level, and not make attacks on each other????

    The attacks don’t work anyway!

  • 13. C.H. mother who vaccinates and proud of wrote:

    If the yeshivas would do the same as public schools and not let unvaccinated kids in, maybe all these crazies would then vaccinate. People if you don’t vaccinate you are putting your kids in danger. There are ways to do it safely like DR.Plaut does it one or two at a time.

  • 14. OUTBREAK, or EPIDEMIC? wrote:

    IS it truly an “OUTBREAK” or is it an “EPIDEMIC”???

    These are truly two very different things, and I see the words used as if they both mean the same thing, in this note from Dr. Rosen.

  • 16. Mendel Engel VERY IMPORTANT FOR MUMPS wrote:

    Like with any other type of swelling, these things may help Significantly.
    1)hot (and later)/or cold compasses on affected area
    2)warm shower with the stream going on affected area

    After you eat and the pain is no longer bearable take a shower. I AM SUPRIZED THAT THE DR. DID NOT MENTION THIS.
    IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO MANAGE WITH MUMPS

  • 17. Concened wrote:

    I totally agree with the comment that all local doctors should refuse to take children who are not vaccinated. These parents are misinformed. In my more than 30 years in education, I never saw so many unvaccinated children. Maybe we need chas’ Vshalom a polio epedemic that I lived through to wake these people up.Our parents who thrilled when the vaccine was invented. If all yeshivas would refuse to take these children that would help also. The religious exemption is a farce, vaccinations are not against our religion/

  • 18. Herbal Supporter! wrote:

    Dear all Herbal knockers:

    a) Dont assume that just because someone believes in herbs, they don’t vaccinate their kids. I currently am dosing my kids with elderberry, echinacea, garlic etc and still take them to get their immunizations. Amazingly enough, you can appreciate the “natural medicine” that is found in Hashem’s creations and appreciate scientific progress at the same time.

    b) Many synthetic drugs, ie created in laboratories, are created based on the compounds and properties naturally found in herbs. For example, aspirin was created based on a certain chemical that is naturally present in several pain relieving plants. Antiboitics? just a fancy way of saying specific strains of fungus.
    (and Jax, try doing a little research through google before attacking natural medicine. Just because it doesnt cost an arm and a leg and come in a neat little paper bag, doesnt mean it cant work.There are many studies out there on the value of garlic and as i mentioned before, antibiotics is another way of saying MOLD.)

  • 19. Thank You Dr. Rosen wrote:

    It’s really nice to have a community doctor who really cares for the community and takes the time to write such detailed information and directives. Our family are patients of Dr.s Rosen & Gottesman. We are super happy with the kind, caring and professional service of them and their staff. It is not often that one finds such responsible, reliable, accommodating, and friendly service – especially in Brooklyn! Thank you Dr. Rosen for this letter and the others that you have prepared before it – and thanks for always taking a personal interest in our community.

  • 20. the doctors could stop this wrote:

    Add my vote to those who call for doctors to refuse to treat unvaccinated children. There are plenty of other doctors in CH & Flatbush who couldn’t care less.

    And the schools should insist on seeing vaccination records for every kid they accept. No records, no admission.

  • 21. For your info wrote:

    For all of you who don’t know, Mumps causes infertility in males and miscarriages in females.

  • 22. Mendel Engel wrote:

    I can certainly agree with the last comment entitled “thank you Dr. Rosen”

  • 24. To for your info wrote:

    A quote from Harrison’s Principles of Internal Medicine (the ‘Bible’ of internal medicine): “…orchitis…developing in ~20% of cases. …sterility after mumps is rare. Oophoritis in women…does not lead to sterility.”

    Please research before trying to scare people.

  • 25. Thank you Dr. Rosen (& let-s pay attn) wrote:

    Dr. Rosen has carefully investigated this outbreak. If another doctor in CH has said that it is because the vaccination isn’t working then that doctor (who might be a great doctor) has not investigated this carefully enough.

    As far as not taking unvaccinated children, that causes even more problems than the current state.

    B”H our community has been blessed with Dr. Rosen, who is a very intelligent person. He certainly has thought through the various options before deciding to take these patients. And he certainly does not take the lack of vaccination lightly in his patients (as is obvious from his letter).

    Let’s start listening to the Aibishter’s shluchim for refuah!!!!

    To ‘outbreak’ vs ‘epidemic’. In this case what we have is BOTH, so Dr. Rosen was using both words, though not interchangeably.

  • 26. Interesting-s reply wrote:

    I am amazed by all the comments my comment generated, and have decided to clarify some points. Firstly, I DO vaccinate myself and family. Secondly, I am actually studying medicine (‘modern/Western/allopathic) and know a bit more than average as an ‘insider’. I, too, laughed at ‘alternative’ medicine until 5 years ago, when I saw the truth. The reasons the FDA/studies don’t support herbs: 1-who will pay for studies? I certainly don’t care if you want to be sick/do radical surgery/let the dr. tell you there is no hope. The farmers don’t have money to prove it. 2- the biggest spending in America is the medical industry, which pumps money into this country and has POWER to prevent such evidence from taking away business. If I told you I can prevent or CURE disease, it hurts the industry. (Europe and S. America are more advanced than US. Check out Commission E’s finding-similar to FDA in Germany)) They will try alleviating your symptoms, masking the issue at hand, and probably cause other problems from the drugs. Trust me- I studied pharmacology.
    To address some comments: Garlic IS antibacterial, antiviral, and antifungal. Unless you did your own research in the lab, which I have, please don’t show your ignorance by arguing. It can be an herb and do great things. I have not had a cold/flu/URI in the last 2 years lasting more than half a day using HERBS.
    I challenge anyone with some medical knowledge, not just repeating what you were brainwashed to say, to discuss this.If you are open to the truth, there is a lot to learn. I challenge doctors to try and see what really works. I happen to have experience with GI issues which there is ‘no cure’. If any doctor, or patient, wants to know: there is a way to cure Crohn’s, IBS, GERD, cold/flu, even ‘yeneh machle! Hashem created our body to be able to heal itself- some of us just suppress that ability in many ways. I stand behind what I claim, and I don’t care to convince anyone, but just feel bad that many are needlessly suffering out of ignorance.

    If you want to hear more of my ranting, or to ask specific, mature, medical questions, feel free to email me.

  • 27. Boo! wrote:

    If immunization is helpless when faced with those that are not vaccinated, why do doctors insist that travelers vaccinate before going to 3rd world countries where none of teh natives are vaccinated?

  • 28. To Do Right Things and Not So Poshet wrote:

    You are missing part of the point. It is true that the vaccinations are not 100% effective. However, the chances of who is vaccinated catching the mumps from someone who is also vaccinated is very remote. Once you are immune to the mumps you won’t spread it to others. Vaccinations don’t only benefit those who get them, but also those they come into contact with. Those who cannot be vaccinated either have to live in seclusion or hope that the people they interact with have also been vaccinated.

    When you refuse to get your kids vaccinated you not only expose them to harm but also expose others to harm. Yes, all is in G-d’s hands, but we have to do our Hishtadlus.

    Not So Poshet, you quoted the words, “killing someone else’s child” but it does not appear that anyone here used those words. Can you specify who accused anyone of killing someone else’s kids?

    For the record, I am perfectly comfortable condemning parents who refuse to vaccinate their kids out of ignorance or stupidity. If you don’t want to vaccinate your kids move to a hut in the middle of the mountains where you will not meet anyone else. If you want to live in civilization act civilized, which means vaccinating your kids as indicated by conventional medical practice.

  • 29. CH Cynic wrote:

    @interesting

    1. The farmers arent the ones marketing these Miracle plants.
    2. say all you want about the drug industry and their power, the fact of the matter is they are the ones putting in billions of dollars into medical research. Whos to believe? I would rather follow the money.

    I am not saying that these herbs arent worth a shot, but it becomes a problem when people are led to believe that drugs are evil and Oregano is a cure-all.

  • 30. Akiva wrote:

    As far as not spreading out of town, Mumps has come to the Chabad community in Ramat Beit Shemesh, Eretz Yisroel, courtesy of some bochrim who brought it back from Crown Heights.

    We now have some infected children and infected parents!

  • 31. Maybe the MUMPS part of MMR is a waste? wrote:

    When I was growing up, 40+ years ago, everyone got mumps. It was not a catastrophe! Uncomfortable, yes, but dangerous — absolutely not!

    Not a single person — no “friend of a friend” no “friend of someone’s cousin” no “neighbor’s nephew” etc. — NO ONE had any permanent damage from it!!!

    Isn’t it interesting that NOT ONE of these letters has come from anyone who has actually suffered any permanent damage from the mumps.

    Measles — yes! THAT needs vaccination. Rubella (“German Measles”) — absolutely yes, THAT needs vaccination.

    However many years ago, the “MMR” vaccine got created. So we got vaccinated for mumps, too (NOT completely effectively, I might add, and the doctors have known that for decades — See Dr. Robert Mendelson’s books, from the 1980s!), along with the other two more potentially dangerous illnesses.

    Even Dr. Rosen acknowledges that many of us who jumped through all of the proper MMR hoops might “need” a third vaccine. But is there any research that proves a THIRD dose is STATISTICALLY SIGNIFICANTLY effective in THIS round of mumps? This round hasn’t been around long enough for anyone to really do a meaningful study of that!

    Maybe the mumps vaccine part of the MMR series is only minimally effective, period!

  • 33. Blinded by Vaccines- THINK FOLKS wrote:

    This just goes to show you that the herd immunity that people use when discussing diseases only applies to communities who have NATURAL immunity, i.e. contracted the disease and now they are immune. The rest of us, who had ARTIFICIAL immunity, are still exposed to mumps. I had both vaccines and now I am thirty. As the Doctor said above, there is no third booster, so I am open to getting it.

    Did anyone ever think that by playing games with artificial immunity, we are causing these diseases to mutate and become stronger and more vicious??? Look what happens with anti-biotics where they are becoming more and more ineffective because we over uses them.

    For those who believe blindly in vaccinations, why do they give a 2 month old a vaccination against Hepatitis B? That is a disease from intravenous drug use and bad behavior. Why does a 2 year old get it? Because there is so much surplus that the states bought so they give it to our babies.

    By the way, they give the same dose of vaccines to babies of all sizes and wights. Does that make sense ? That a 5 pound baby should get the same dose as a ten pound baby?

    Autism is NOT the only damage by vaccines. That is the straw man that Doctors put up to knock down. By the way, that article Dr. Rosen knocked was discredited for the means he proved the link between autism and vaccines. That he took the blood from his children’s friends. But the data was never discredited.
    People- you are very noive to believe in the cult of Pharmaceutical, especially Vaccines. Look what just happened with the “killer” swine flu. READ:

    http://www.thefirstpost.co….

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/

  • 34. Save time, read this wrote:

    I like “Boo”s point (above, and repeated below):

    Boo! wrote:
    If immunization is helpless when faced with those that are not vaccinated, why do doctors insist that travelers vaccinate before going to 3rd world countries, where none of the natives are vaccinated?

    ALSO, click on the links above, which were provided by “Please Explain this chart”, and by “Blinded…THINK FOLKS”.

  • 35. Chicken wrote:

    12 years ago Dr. Rosen has refused to report the side effects of my son’s vaccinations. He was very nice about it, but refused anyway. today, my son, who has received his 2 doses of MMR has mumps.
    Mumps are relatively harmless in younger children. It is the adolescents and adults who are in more danger. Is it not interesting that the vaccine wears off at the more dangerous time?
    Does it make any sense?
    By the way, infertility in males as a result of mumps is very rare, my husband had mumps, Thank G-d we have 6 kids, we have friend, who had mumps – he has 11. And mumps does not cause miscarriage in females.
    We are more in danger from pollution and all the preservatives and colorings in our food.

  • 36. Yossi R. wrote:

    Mendel Engel,
    I put the cold compass on, and it still points North, what should I do now?

  • 37. awacs wrote:

    “People if you don’t vaccinate you are putting your kids in danger.”

    Oh? Proof?

    Or is it something that “everybody knows”, i.e. you really *don’t* know.

    I wish that folks would have as much emunah and bitachon in Hashem, as they do in doctors and scientists.

  • 38. awacs wrote:

    “Garlic IS antibacterial, antiviral, and antifungal. Unless you did your own research in the lab, which I have, please don’t show your ignorance by arguing.”

    Since you asked us to email you, and you didn’t post an address, perhaps you could post a link to the ‘research done in the lab’ or other studies?”

    Thanks.

  • 39. To Awacs wrote:

    The idea that vaccinating your kids to protect them is common sense. Unfortunately common sense isn’t so common anymore. Nonetheless, vaccinations as protection against disease should be just as intuitive as insisting that your kids wear seat belts in the car to protect them from physical trauma.

    As far as I am concern a parent who refuses to have his/her children vaccinated unless directed by a physician is not fit to be a parent. Perhaps if ACS starting taking kids away such outbreaks would be much less frequent.

    Your wish that people have as much faith in Hashem as in doctors is irrelevant. Having faith in Hashem does not mean we ignore professional advise. We have to both do our hishtadlus and have bitachon, but bitachon is never a substitute for hishtadlus.

  • 40. To awacs from INTERESTING wrote:

    Sorry- I put my email into the box for email, and I guess it doesn’t get posted. My email is naturalhealing770@gmail.com.

    As far as research, I referred to my own done in the microbiology lab done during my time in pre-med. I have taken 4 types of bacteria and placed a disc saturated in garlic oil and placed it in the center, then left it for 24 hours to ‘grow’. I am assuming you know something about medicine and antibiotic testing, otherwise email me or research the intricate details. I took pictures, which you can view if it means anything, that shows antibacterial action. As far as antiviral, I just happen to use it for viruses for years-feeling is believing. Antifungal- I happen to have seen that in vivo, too.(no, there is no testing for years on every drug as someone else assumed/brazenly stated:“whereas pharmaceuticals are rigorously tested for years in double-blind studies before they are allowed to be sold to the public.”.)I happen to have studied pharmacology and we were told otherwise.
    Thanks for your mature asking style- most comments here show lack of maturity.

  • 41. To Natural Healing wrote:

    You failed to tell us what you used for a control. You failed to produce any statistics. You also assume that the direct application of garlic oil in a petri dish means that the same chemical will fight bacteria when ingested. You also failed to tell us the dose. Without a control of any sort the pictures mean absolutely nothing.

    Regarding your basis for antiviral activity, are you familiar with the concept of psychosomatic effects? How about self-limiting, like the common cold. These are two of the reasons why we require double-blind studies.

    I have nothing against natural remedies as long as they are shown to actually work.

    I worked in the pharmaceutical industry, specifically in the testing phases. I assure you they are tested in double-blind studies. I personally participated in these studies.

  • 42. Natural healing wrote:

    Unless I knew your credentials, I would not bore readers with my procedure in full. Yes, I had a control, and yes, I have tried it in vivo, too. If you were open to it, I would suggest you try your own trials- that is if you would like to be healthy. And as far as testing drugs: no, not all drugs must go through all phases of testing. They can ‘rush’ them along as long as they ‘look very promising’. You worked on the ones that are worked on- you don’t know all those that ‘slipped’ through that process. This is what is taught in my medical school- maybe you know better than those conducting the studies…
    My testing, as you pointed out, may not prove it would work in vivo- it’s just that I happen to have over 2 years of experience with it’s antimicrobial activity on myself and many other people wishing to cure themselves without ‘drugs’. I just hope others can see the light in this cheap, effective, and safe way to treat infections. If you don’t want to try or take my word for it- go ahead and take drugs. (by the way, google garlic’s research that others have done. It’s thought that it’s antimicrobial action if from it’s sulfur components. You can take garlic, or opt for ‘perfect lab specimens’ like sulfur-based antibiotics. Maybe G-d didn’t perfect it yet…

  • 43. Mendel Engel wrote:

    Hot or cold compresses- sorry you need it spell correctly to figure out what I meant-probaly because you never heard of commpresses- I hope but tell me did the compass work for you?

  • 44. awacs wrote:

    “As far as I am concern a parent who refuses to have his/her children vaccinated unless directed by a physician is not fit to be a parent. Perhaps if ACS starting taking kids away such outbreaks would be much less frequent.”

    Oh? As a parent who’s child spent a fun-filled, very eventful weekend in hospital – courtesy childhood vaccinations – I’d beg to differ. Call ACS on me, if you’d like. I’m not budging.

  • 45. To Natural Healing wrote:

    You need not worry about boring us. Those not interested will simply skip your comments describing the procedure. You could also post on your website the data you derived from the study, as well as all the other details, like the specific bacteria you tested, the incubation conditions, etc. If you could provide links to scientific journals where you have published that would also be good.

    As for the rushing, that only applies to drugs that can treat life threatening conditions for which there are no recognized effective treatments. A new pain medication will not be rushed, while a treatment for a particularly aggressive cancer with a low survival rate using current treatments will likely be rushed. FDA on a case by case basis will allow treatments to be given to gravely ill patients earlier in the testing phases.

  • 46. Natural Healing debate wrote:

    I don’t have a website, but I do know how to google. This one site came up first:
    http://www.advance-health.c

    I had tested garlic on s. marcescens, E. coli, B. subtilis, and s. epidermidis. As there is no standard for the garlic, unlike antibiotics, I won’t say how many mm of clearance zones each produced. I didn’t have this research published or reproduced again, although I have seen its effects enough times to disregard what I may prove in the lab. Again, I couldn’t care less if you doubt me or garlic; I know the cure for the cold and flu and am trying to help others. If they refuse to be helped…what can I do.

    As far as your trusting FDA (and I still maintain you are misinformed when you say the rules for rushing drugs) : a teacher of mine worked in the food department/ quality control, which would receive (I believe) Turkish apricots and they would check how many bugs per unit there were. If there were too many, it would be sent to Canada, which has a more lenient policy. Once in Canada, the rules change, and it comes in without checks…

    Just let it be known that wither intentionally or by ignorance, we are not told of cheap, safe, and simple ways to heal and prevent diseases. When those out there claim that we should believe the doctors have our best interest in mind- I don’t really blame them. They have been taught one way (which I am, too) and are drilled to disregard alternative methods. Please don’t argue that point- I am a medical student and see this first hand. Knowing both sides of the game should make you at least open to the ideas mentioned, as I know what medical doctors are taught, and I’d still maintain my beliefs.

    So there-take it or leave it. I will continue taking control of my health, as opposed to leaving myself to American medical statistics. They expect us all to at some point have polyps and colon problems, while the Rambam claims that beginning of all disease is not being able to eliminate properly (constipation). Doing a simple HERBAL cure for this common American condition would save many much suffering.
    I can go on with examples and more info, but I have exams to study for and am not even sure people are reading this…

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