Op-Ed: Camps Unmasked
Over the past decade, thousands of words have been spilled, in conversation and in print, over the alarming rate of our youth going off the derech. Accusations have been made against our school systems and against the parents. The rabbonim, the mashpiyim and even our store vendors have been blamed.
No doubt, there’s a kernel of truth to all of the above. There is however one area, which I feel has been overlooked, and interestingly enough, it is the first one to be mentioned by most educators. How much this is of influence, cannot be proven without thorough study, but surely a factor deserving of attention it is.
I am talking of the two month summer camps.
First the facts:
(Most of what is written here is regarding the boys camps, of which the writer has more an idea, but much of it is equally relevant to the girls programs.)
1) All the camps are being run by twenty two year old bochurim, and twenty year old girls respectively. Simply put: Three hundred children in the hands of a person who is not yet ready to have children of his/her own.
2) The curriculums, games, plays, night activities and songs, are being prepared by teenagers. No professional guidance provided.
3) Overlooking their work is the director, who sees the camp as a business enterprise and whose expertise in education is next to nothing. While traditionally there is a camp rabbi, he does not have much influence on the day to day workings of the camp.
4) The most important goal every staff member is told: Make sure the kids have a good time. Everything else is secondary.
5) In the boy’s camps, the counselors are generally the less chassidishe bochurim. This is simply due to the fact that any bochur interested in learning would prefer to go to a yeshivas kayitz or at least be a learning teacher. It is therefore usually the fun seeking, available, camp-style bochur who is spending two months with the kids as their role model.
Likewise, the head counselors of the boy’s camps must be the kind of bochur who is ready to sacrifice half a year of learning to prepare for the summer.
6) There is no academic standard that has to be met by the camp curriculum. In other words, it is impossible for a camp’s learning to fail. Emotional and behavioral intendancies are not the responsibility of the camp either. Once the summer is over, all staff members are scot free.
The results are only to be expected:
The unsettled seventeen year old counselors and waiters dictate the education; basic good ethics and traits, like not screaming in the streets, not ridiculing others, being respectful of your teachers etc, all become “nerdy” in camp. The camp atmosphere demands that you be with it. “It” is monitored by the popular night activity director who has just about managed not to get kicked out of yeshivah.
These same educators of our youth are also creating and cheering with the kids street-like chants, which are usually meaningless, and at times coarse. The more silly and immature one could be – the better counselor he is. The staff will generally not deny that the cheering is more for their own fun, than for the children.
The activities and programs are infiltrated with secular culture. Many a camp play was based on movies, which for some reason the play writers happened to have seen. The scavengers and shmayonkies may also have the same.
Then there’s the dress. The staff members, finally relived from their yeshivah shackles, could dress as hip as they wish. White shirt and dark pants are not ‘cool’. A green-yarmullka bearer is a hero. All campers wishing to ‘fit in’ follow suit.
The learning is a joke too. Unlike all other camps, Lubavitch camps do not provide married experienced teachers, who know their stuff and discipline professionally. In fact the learning teachers are even younger than the counselors. The results are; tampering with the learning, turning good kids into trouble makers, and a vicious cycle of bribes and punishments being implemented by the clueless, and occasionally careless, seven seventy bochur in charge.
The emotional damage is worthy of a study of its own. Publicly humiliating kids is daily procedure in the dining room, petting and picking is customary and creating outright competition is the fuel on which camp runs.
All of this is covered and packaged in a few attractive fluffy wrappers, which blind the parents and set them to rest. Mushy Rebbe songs, mishnayos ba’al peh contests, loads of fun and expensive trips, bring back home smiling kids. But the damage was done, and will only surf during the course of the school year.
The Rebbi attempts to excite the kids about learning and yiddishe values, but year after year, it falls flat. The teacher is simply not ‘with it’ – with camp.
In camp they were taught that learning is a non-issue, and here the teacher is trying to make it sound like it’s a life matter. Their counselors were ‘cool’, and this teacher is telling them that chassidishkeit is what’s important.
The chutzpah to the teacher soars, as a natural continuation of the fun. It is quite possibly also due to the fact that the teachers are subconsciously perceived as old-fashioned not-with-it people, as a result of the worldly camp atmosphere.
It cannot be expected otherwise. After being brainwashed for eight weeks that camp is the best place and being spoiled with treats, trips and fun; after enjoying ‘runaways’ from learning class and spending half a day in the swimming pool or the baseball court – the rebbis are being put up to heavy competition. One that they are bound to fail at.
As the year progresses, the Rebbi somehow stitches up the damage done by the summer, and attempts to instill a learning ethic, derech eretz and yiras shomayim. But as the summer comes around, it all goes up in smoke as the next batch of teenagers set about blinding his dear pupils with the easier, cooler, alternative way of life.
Back in camp, camper and counselor have much in common; they both relate of a miserably boring year of irrelevant gemorah, and dive into a “fun-packed summer experience of a lifetime”, one that shall “change your child forever”.
In the tug of war between the schools and the camps, the latter usually succeed. They have everything going for them, including the twenty four hour atmosphere, the not being restricted to educational programs, not being answerable to any level of providing skills and knowledge, and an enthusiastic youthful staff anxious to partake in the fun.
The results are all well known to us.
The past few years have seen much of our energy invested in constructively criticizing our community. I believe that most of our homes, and the vast majority of our teachers, are doing only good. The real culprits are the camps.
One frustrated teacher once remarked that since the Rebbe originally set up the camps for non frum kids, and since the camps are not managing to attract them, they are attempting to produce them on their own. A sad joke of bad taste, but one we cannot laugh away.
Our kids are not going off any derech – their striding strictly on the alternative path they were shown.
staff member
nice article but not compltley corect.
CGI new york has a full time older maried learning director, and the past few years has had a maried and expreninced head couslor on staff, this among other mature maried staff mambers.
CGI detroit also has a full time maried Maspiah by the boys and the girls camp.
this maspiah is givin full authority on evrything that goes on in camp, including approving the head couselors. every aspect and activity is approved by this maspia, including trips, color generals etc.
i think your article is not bad but may have been appropiate 15-20 years ago, not now.
Article completely wrong.
Unless things changed dramatically from my time as a camper this writer is totally wrong.
In Gan Israel Montreal there was a saying,coined I believe by Rabbi Yaakov Schvei who for years was the Camp Rabbi, that “a year in Gan Israel can accomplish more then a year in Toimchei Temmimim, and a color war can accomplish more then a summer in Gan Israel.
The total immersion in Yiddishkeit and Chassidishkeit that Gan Israel provides has a stronger effect on the campers then the whole year spent in Yeshiva.
The counselors and Head counselors and staff are the ones who show the campers what a chassidish bochur is and what a chasidish life should be. Hiskasrus to the rebbe permiates the entire month or two that the child is in camp.
However my experience is with Montreal and Detroit camps but I do not believe that NY lags so far behind. To malign the head staff, as you do, is so incorrect as to be criminal. The bochurim chosen for Head Staff are always the most Chassidish and dedicated bochurim around.
Your entire article is pure BS, ignorant, and false.
100%
Great, op-ed!!
BCH
I find this op-ed absolutely amazing!
The yeshivas are just fine, but fail to inculcate love of learning, any learning skills, any desire to learn because of… waiting for the drum roll….. the camps. Ah, finally we have identified the culprit!
It turns out that is isn’t the clueless and / or burnt out melamdim and menahalim that fail to show the kids the the beauty and yes, FUN, FUN, FUN of learning! And it’s not the pure misery of sitting for endless hours in their totally uninspired and uninspiring classrooms that turns the kids off ! Who wuda thunk– the problem is that they have too much FUN in camp! If only they would be just as miserable in camp as they are in the yeshiva, all would well.
OK then…
be positive
I totally disagree! I have sent boys to parksville and montreal and they have come back with such chassidishkeit and enthusiasm for yiddishkeitfrom both camps. more careful with minyan, chitas etc. I feel more is accomplished in camp a way than during school. camp is a necessary expense like school, it is chinuch too. If all the op eds would point out positive things instead of trying to blame and point out negative, we would be in a better place. Let’s all learn from Reb Levi Yitzchok mibarditchev and find the good in everyone.
Finnaly
Wow, how correct, you should sign your name on this and you should be in the chinuch field!!! It should be mentioned that you wrote it very “aidel” the camp problem is much deeper, anyone can give you a book of examples of terrible Hadrocha they received.
#2 is spot on!
Well said no need for my own version.
yesh ve-yesh
there’re some notable exceptions to this generalization, where the counclers are great chassidishe bochurim with lots of chayus, the learning teachers actually teach and make it interesting and fun, and the kids come home with renewed energy, great memories and experiences, and more vigor in their daily conduct than before (davening, coming to minyonim on time, etc.)
DaasTorah
Absurd in every respect.
backwards!
You bring up everything that you feel is wrong with camps in a effort to blame them for something they are not at fault for.
First of all, you are totally wrong! kids NEED time to splay and run around and have fun. the total inhibition of this in yeshivos might be a contributing factor to children going of the derech. Camp should be year round, that way there is a balance as to what they NEED and what we want them to do (sit all day and learn)
NEXT: the people running the camps are products of the yeshiva system too! nothing more needs to be said.
BTW, most kids come back from camp with MORE chayios in learning and davening! this is a fact!
A mature approach would be to tackle the issues you have with camps one at a time, deal with them, but don’t blame the camp for a failed and outdated chinuch system which is not tailored towards the specific needs of the children.
Nurse Tzippy
I am a camp nurse for many years in a summer camp both Kiruv
and Yeshiva kids in two different divisions. Half the summer
is girls and the other half boys. I totally disagree with your observation. The councilors are filled with love and caring for our campers, and their daily activities from Modeh Ani to Krias Shema is Torah and Yiras Shemayim filled.
There are many children from Anash who do not have their negal vasser always filled and by their beds at home, with a councilor making sure to greet them as soon as they wake up no matter how early they awaken with a happy Mode Ani song. There is always bed time stories at bed time which instills love for Hashem and Torah and Mitzvos. Unfortunately mothers in our community are so tired at the end of the day, that they do not always have the time and patience to end off the day like that.
I find the councilors very eager and energized to raise their
campers with their future mother-father instincts, and to be a role model in most ways. They are not burned out parents,
and they are eager to practice the upbringing of a Yiddisha
Neshama on a few weeks per year basis.
Camp gives our parents a bit of a breather for a couple of weeks, which gives the campers a refreshed and well rested parents, to come home to and to make up for lost time.
Of course not every councilor is the perfect role model, but
I found our camp very careful in the choosing process of councilors, and we do a lot of training prior to camps opening and we let them know what we do and do not tolerate.
We spend lots of time observing what is going on in the bunks and we never hesitate to send a councilor or camper for that matter packing up to leave.
I believe camp does a lot of physical and spiritual recharging for everyone involved, but of course there has to be a lot of supervision, training, and guidance.
Shmuel
For lack of a better description, this op-ed is not worth the the space on the server it is being saved on
Chabad
I really hope you are not in any kids education with your ludicrous antics its almost cultish
wrong about the boys
Yehuda, your article describes the camps when I was a camper 25 years ago. Although I had a great time, the Chinuch offered was horrible and a waste of two months.
The present situation is totally different – if there is one place that our boys are getting a true Chasidishe cinuch it is at our overnight camps (NY, Detroit and Montreal).
Unfortunately, it is at our girls camps (Emunah in particular) that your article should focus on. Our daughters loose their Eidelkeit after spending a summer in camp. They come home less Tzniusdik in their dress along with coarse behavior (screaming and eating in the streets etc).
Camper/Counselor
As a former camper and counselor, I must admit that you are totally right, which is why Lubavitch boys in Eretz Yisroel have a greater Chinuch and learn more because their summer break is only 3 weeks. Ohr Menachem boys Cheder of Crown heights also solves this problem. Ask teacher Rabbi Levi Goldstein all about this subject.
Camp is transformative
I live in Florida and sent my son last year to camp for his first time. He was transformed in a good way. Since returning, he davens next to me on Shabbos, washes negel vaser and is always careful to have his tzitzus and yarmulkah on at all times. Camp gave him a love and enthusiasm for yiddishkeit that could not be given to him at yeshivah. I have already paid for him to return to camp this year.
Never a counselor but always inspired by
The counselors gain as much from the camp experience as the students. You can’t fool yourself into teaching something you don’t believe in for very long, which leads counselors to seek the truth as well.
That-s not the problem with camps
I disagree that children’s Yiddishkeit is adversely affected: not only is their Yiddishkeit not at risk, I think the Yeshivas can learn from overnight camps to instill a love for Yidishkeit into the kids. Camps do that extremely well, I find.
However, there is an issue with lack of safety and health awareness. My son was forced to go to homes of local goyim in the country and CLEAN THEIR TOILIETS!! (hello?!) and other nonsensical dangerous things as part of a SCAVENGER HUNT in Camp Gan Israel in Montreal.
There are really health and safety concern where young counselors do not have any first aid training or any other certification to be responsible for the health and well being of young charges.
The idea of a ‘good time’ is be to force kids to stay awake till the wee hours or to wake them up in middle of the night to do an activity – all which are devastating on the immune system. Or to scream and scream until they have laryngitis or the terrible sunburns they get because of the neglect of skin health and sunscreen etc.
In addition, the nutrition in the camps is dismal. Kids eat junk from the canteen all season long and the menu is filled with the cheapest crap money can buy.
All in all, you really have to pray that you send your kid to camp whole and healthy and he comes back that way.
Its the girls camps that need rebuke
You may be right about a few small ponts… overall, the boys camps (parksville and montreal)are wonderful camps where the boys come home with a Chayus in their Darkei Hachasidus and a heightend awarness of what it means to be a chosid.
As far as the girls camps are concerned, they are truly a source where you can point a finger. Girls from chasidishe families are ridiculed about their chasishkeit and end up adopting to the “proste avir” that is so prevelant amongst the staff. As far as I am concerned, you are better off keeping your daughter home.
You got it!
You hit the nail on the head, but not for the reasons you think you did.
Buried in your many paragraphs of negative hyperbole, I found this statement:
“Back in camp, camper and counselor have much in common; they both relate of a miserably boring year of irrelevant gemorah, and dive into a “fun-packed summer experience of a lifetime”, one that shall “change your child forever”.
That is exactly the problem we have – ”they both relate of a miserably boring year of irrelevant gemorah“. The Yeshiva system, from top to bottom is broken. Young kids and older bochurim alike think that yeshiva is ”boring“ and Gemorah is ”irrelevant”. So, yes, when they get to camp they have little to no interest in anything that resembles school.
When the Yeshiva System figures out how to make learning fun and relevant, that will automatically fix the major issues you believe the camp system has.
I agree, and I add to that...
Not to mention the X-rated “discussions” that take place in the bunks after lights-out in the typical camp. Most typically, the counselor leaves the bunk to unwind after a long day, and that’s when your children share what they’ve learned about the underworld. 1 or 2 hours a night of this routine for about 8 weeks of the summer, and your child’s innocence is not the same anymore.
Everyone who’s ever been in camp has experienced this in some way and knows exactly what I’m talking about.
In today’s age, with the use of the internet; having access to all dirt just at our fingertips, we can’t afford to put our children at risk like this.
These are children we’re talking about, and children need full time adult supervision.
Adam
What a load of rubbish
DAVE
The writer is right on the money and I speak as a former camper, staff member and father who will soon have to deal with not sending his sons to camp.
I recall a summer when at the age of twenty I had had a staff position in camp not directly related to the kids. I remember watching sweet, well behaved, cute and lively children well groomed and raised by responsible parents gradually evolve over the course of about twenty days into untamed, wild, filthy and crazy little animals high on sugar complemented with a sense of permissiveness and lack of discipline that would be unthinkable in normal circumstances. By the time it was six weeks in and the insanity was fully entrenched, the children were dizzy with excitement and didn’t know if they were coming or going any more.
This phenomenon is in no way limited just to the children. Staff members who are really just young bochurim in their late teens and early twenties are suddenly transformed into “head staff” and other positions of faux importance and authority within a hierarchy that does not exist outside of camp. It is not a job that needs to get done. They become completely consumed by it. It’s like camp became its own world that runs parallel to planet earth.
So yeah, sure these kids and bochurim can use a vacation and a good time. But eight weeks? Come on. In the real world vacations of even two weeks is the stuff of dreams and if most of us grown ups can somehow manage a weekend and a day off in July or August to recharge our batteries we are grateful. So let’s cut to the chase. It’s no secret that camp “tuition” runs quite high and the prices tend to go up from year to year. In other words it’s a de facto private business. Nothing wrong with that. I have one myself as a matter of fact only I’m quite upfront about it and I didn’t build it up with public donations.
So the best thing would be to return overnight camps to the communities who support them. Cut it down to two or three weeks and let the schools be open through July as many outside our community are. Only then will the eidelkeit inherent in our children be brought to fore and then and only then will they have a truly rewarding summer experience where their parents will recognize them when they come home.
not exactly
this article addressing important summer camp issues is a bit confusing. There is definitely room for growth in instilling our values, however blaming under aged staff or their being more cool is not fair. My sons have experienced the most amazing bochurim as counselors and other staff that have not only inspired them in camp but continue to dedicate themselves all year and are still devoted to them years later. From taking them on Tahaluchas to organizing farbrengens, I am in awe of these bochurim. CGI Mtl had Michoel Lipskier a few years back as learning head who created a brilliant curriculum that had the kids love learning! They continue to use it and the kids love it! I think the camps would do well cutting out the trips to amusement parks etc. as it sends a negative message. I think events such as a Jewish Star is damaging.
Camp Rocks!
For all the negative you see in camp, consider this:
A child comes home from camp, and that first night home he makes sure to put negel vaser next to his bed. Then he says “Shma” including “Hamapil”. In the morming he wakes and the first thing he says is “Modeh Ani” and then washes negel vasser. He bentches after he eats. He proudly hangs the photos of the Rebbe that he won in camp on the wall, and puts the sefarim he got for Mishnayos Baal Peh on the shelf. On his door he hangs the “Beis Chabad” sign he made in arts and crafts….
Do you think this is some kind of fantasy or a dream? It’s not. It’s real. Kids go to camp and are immersed in an atmosphere of 24 hour yiddishkeit and chassidishkeit that is fun at the same time.
When they get home , they bring that experience home with them. Sadly, after a few weeks or months all those good habits they picked up in camp will wear off, and it’s just boring life again till next summer when they recharge…
detroit camper; & staff in NY & detroit
The case is definitely not as you right in CGI Detroit; and would definitely be recommended for what you are looking for
some what true
when i said to the came director that my son need some TLC. hes a great student just more to the sencetive side. his answer ro me was what do u want the staff are so young how do u expect such resolts. plz keep him home
Thank you #2
As a mother of children who are and were campers, counselors, head counselors and learning teachers, my children, both the boys and the girls grew tremendously in chassidishkeit and learning in overnight camps.
disappointed
There is much to be said Largely the op ed is correct many things are lacking in a camp learning is definitely a problem with younger teachers A learning director should me a married chinuch professional teachers should also be experienced but the camps are too cheap & will never pay a proper salary why pay someone a couple of thousand when for the same money you can get 3 bachurim! The amount of time focused on learning should be increased & more organized. Derech Eretz needs to be taught & instilled.Most of all Chinuch is the primary responsibility of the parents & begins at home!
moshiach now
i work with misifta kids from all background that have been to all types of camps, and i can tell you that could be camps maybe a problem but its not because of the staff, rather you can have one or to perverts who corrupt an entire bunk.
wherever there is lots of kedush there is also klipa. its not anyone’s fault, that’s the world we live in, its called galus there is so much chayos for kedush gained out of camp.
And btw staff do stay in touch throughout the year giving them someone to look up to and instill chassidishkiet. kids i know are only “with it” due to there camp staff keeping in touch throughout the year despite there parents not giving them a proper chinuch
moshiach now
Just two words.
LIGHTEN UP!!
Oy his poor kids what do they do for summer fun?
Are you for real?
I’m guessing that this article was meant to be posted on Purim because nearly everything it says is V’nahafoch-hu! I am sure the hardworking MARRIED, CHINUCH_EXPERIENCED directors of the camps are too smart to take this seriously.
To #4
You crack me up.
Couldn’t have said it better!
camp mom
I sent my 15yearold to a summer learning/outdoors program and B”H he is a different person their is not one area that I don’t see improvement, Davening, Learning, Social interaction responsibility…
So what you say may be true but not in all cases.
jk
“5) In the boy’s camps, the counselors are generally the less chassidishe bochurim. This is simply due to the fact that any bochur interested in learning would prefer to go to a yeshivas kayitz or at least be a learning teacher. It is therefore usually the fun seeking, available, camp-style bochur who is spending two months with the kids as their role model.”
so what you rather have the non so chasidishe bocherim make a joke out of learning class, while the chasidishe bocher dosent even know what is loundry…:)???
oo
very nice article, and very true, but you could just put up the countkess Sichos that the Rebbe some much breath on, trying to put in some sence in the schools and yeshivos, THAT A JEWISH BOY WHO LIVES IN THE DERECH HATORAH, CAN NOOOOT TAKE A BREAK for even ONE DAY some much more for 60 days or so…
so then yeah you are right!!! but dont say that the pour teachers have to deal with the pour problems of the kids.. they are the one that give them this time off… and its much better that the kids go to camp, then just sit at home with no stucshure at all….
i say schooll should NOT have a summer break. yomim tovim are just enough, maybe in the summer they could go every once in while to the park….
Chaim Tovim
When I was an 8 or 9 year old camper in CGI MTL in the 80s I had a vicious counselor who literally tortured me. From that day until I was in my mid 20s, I davened daily that he should be repaid. I stopped davening for that and forgave him when he came up to me to ask forgiveness and told me that he has a severely handicapped son…
Just saying…
are u serious
the only reason the head staff become head staff is for the rabbes shlichus and i was in camp and its so not true what you wrote and i know personally that the head staff didn’t want to take the job because they knew it would take time from seder they were begged to do it and one of the head staff turn off there cell phone during seder and only after you seder u could get a hold off him and also the only chinuch i had was from camp
Hog wash
Everyone writes op-eds based on their own experience and then they paint the situation with their brush.
Its irresponsible
Shloime
Some parts of this are sadly very true, like the Plays taken from a Movie, I have been a staff member and the main part of the play is to “scare the kids”….
i agree with 18
Health, safety and security are the problems in camp, not ruach and hashkafa.
Scarred - for life.
over all there must be allot of good going on in camp.
but i can tell you my story:
i was raised by the most Chassidic wonderful parents and family,
i came to camp at age 12 all was well.
i made great friends, that I’m very happy to have gotten to know till today.
but one night a boy or two decided it was time to educate the rest of us about some things they thought we should understand the way they do.
that night changed my life in a most damaging way, the damaging force of those few moments is something i worked hard to get rid of and its still an issue for me.
for that alone i wish i would have never gone to camp.
camp can be a breeding ground for the worst spiritual viruses you can worry about.
I wish i never went to camp.
Yossi Levy
Check out the pic it’s the Caplands from Louisville Kentucky.
Shliach
Well written load of SHHHHHH!
I had the honor and privilage of atending the reebes camp as a camper for 6 years, a masmid, a bochur in yeshivas hakayitz, a waiter, learning teacher, and counselor.
Those accumulative 2 full years instilled the chayies and varmkiet of chisidus in me that i proudly carry to this day.
I am now a shliach with my own camp and when I write my pan before camp and my duch after i beg the rebbe that I be able to instill those same feelings in to these precious children that have been entrusted to me.
CGI Otisville
Perhaps a new training camp for counselors ought to be opened so counselors can complete a rigorous training program starting no less than two weeks before camp session starts.
Otisville might be a good location for such a training camp.
Very important issue
Your article is unfortunately very true and we should do ourselves a favor and stop resisting change… Even for those that say that it’s not as bad as the author claims or it’s even good, don’t we preach “as gut iz gut, iz besser nisht besser”!
Mara Levana
This is very Mara-Shchoradik.
Overlooked issue
Perhaps some children become more frum when they go to camp. After all, there is no TV in camp. There is no internet in camp. In short, the kids get eight weeks with no wordly anti frum themes constantly bombarding them in the evenings and/or weekends when they are home from Yeshiva. I think this would be an improvement for a good percentage of the kids that attend lubavitch summer camp.
mb
this article has good points (true) and bad (untrue) as well. as a parent of both boys and a daughter who all went to overnight camps – i personally dont feel putting the blame on these camps or their staff is the the answer.
a bigger problem arises with the bungalow colony day camps which have both bochurim and girls acting as counselors, etc. during the time of camp there is supervision for all those involved from the head counselors, to the staff to the campers – BUT what happens when camp is over and no one oversees what these counselors do in their spare time during camp hours or in the evening when camp is finished
and then there are the actions of those inside 770 who watch and sit blindly while a bochur beats up a rabbi cause he disagrees and no one stops him but helps him – THINK – what would the REBBE say to that
WHERE does one begin to find answers – wish i had them
chinuch comes from home
we cant just leave or blame the the chinuch our children get in camp chinuch comes from home what they see you do will pg receive good results its okay sometimes too say no to children but not all the time
camper
i went to machne gan yisroel detroit (girls division) due to unfortunate circumstances, i was not happy (mean girl in my bunk, bad nurse, homesick etc.) but in ruchnius i grew tremendously. The chayus and hiskashrus i gained was incredible, thank you gan yisroel!
craziness...... i totally agree!
i totally agree and i said to my head counselor when i was 13 (u canask anyone that knows if im chuztapadik not one reply will be yes)i told my head counselor who was dealing with something i did and was taking it totally out of proportion,U SHUD NOT BE IN CHINUCH! and now i see im not the only ones that think camp staff shud really be trained in chinuch!
COMPLETLY WRONG
u are right about one thing: people going off the derech. check my comment on Collive.com people, number 46: its the real stuff. DON’T COMPLAIN ABOUT THESE DIRECTORS AND COUNSELORS WHO ARE SPENDING MONTHS TRYING TO MAKE YOUR CHILD’S SUMMER FUN!
are you bored, guy who wrote this article? because obviously you are thinking up a random subject which you may be involved in( not saying your the cause of it but you may be involved in some other way, such as having relatives go through the “frying out” stage)and writing it because your bored. CAMP IS TO HAVE FUN AND OF COURSE LEARN, AND THESE COUNSELORS ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG! so don’t blame the counselors, blame yourself FOR WRITING THIS ARTICLE WHICH MAKES NO SENSE!
i hope in the future you will write things and issues that make sense because you are a excellent writer.
ps i have nothing against you, just on this article
Eric Taylor
I was never a counselor, but have been a staff member for a few years and held several positions in camp. In my opinion campers that are having trouble at home are the ones having trouble at camp. I have witnessed on many occasions the words that come out these kids mouths,,,,, and it is my belief that the children learned this at home (because i knew the campers parents, and they speak the same exact way) sometimes you wish you can wash their mouths with kosher lepesach soap.
the rebbe-s camp
It’s a pleasure to read the first entry in crownheights.info’s fiction features. I hope you continue to publish fine fiction of this sort.
anon
i went to camp and was a learning teacher in camp, in the recent years.
to 2# i have no idea about what once was, all i know is that the matzav today is very similar to what is mentioned in the op ed.
to 25# yo mean to say that your child was not brought up wiht negel vaser or krias shema in your own house? wow so that is why we need camp. no i am not surprised, i actually went to school, and i saw all that live. but you do have to understand that is the basics of a yidishe upbringing, and if a regular kid does not get more then that,or vise versa so then there is no point.
i went to camp and like 25# said i learn’t many things to early for my immature and underdeveloped mind was not ready for. and not to talk about all those goishe inyanim that my temimusdige mind never encountered.
the rebbe spoke about the 24 hour yidishe atmosphere that effects the very being of the child. one can only conjecture of what damage can happen when the atmosphere is just the opposite.
btw if you actually learn what the rebbe lepoel said, he was only for camps for kids that were not zoche to have the same education as us. about us the rebbe railed against it. it’s a fact. in addition the rebbe spoke that if one learned secular studies during the year and did not have enough time to learn limudei kodesh, he must make that up during the summer.
one claims (as matter of fact) that kids need to have a break. and i claim that (as a matter of fact that the rebbe does not agree with you. just go read the sichos its shochor al gabei lovon. furthermore the rebbe wants that if a kid is lepoel going to camp he should pic a camp that learns the most (watch the video of lag be’omer mem daled). and its also a fact that the level learning in the camps, is a dismal failure, to a very high degree. not to mention when the trips take place. i was a camper and a learning teacher, to me you cant sell the brooklyn bridge.
its a fact that many (not all) head staff are very young. just take a look at them, its not to hard.
please do not try to sell a boat that the director is an educator or experianced (in anything but keeping the business afloat).
the camps have many influences that are the opposite of yidishkiet and chasidishkiet.but its not just that they bread an apathetic tendency to halacha or at least the minute details (not just the whole spiritual dimension) of the life of a frume yid. when are kids waken up for zman krias shema?(and that does not mean only the kids but also the bar mitzva bochurim), or ask many of your kids if they wash negel vaser by an overnight or the like. or ask them if they say kinus on tisha b’av (if you do not know what i am talking about, i will let you into a secret, the camps (including now ysp since rabbi gordon has left) wake up right before (or even right after) chatzos (on tishe be’av), and therefore do not say kinus.). many kids see their role models (the counselors and learning teacher) davening at a very late hour, and not b/c they were sitting and learning chasidus. how many times does a camp have to wake by borchu for a minyan from the staff?
ask your kids if music (oh i am sorry nigunim!) is played on the pr system during the 3 weeks?
ask your kids if any of camps care about shekia for mincha.
and there is much much much more. i was there.
counsler from the kinus
i was a counsler for the kinnus camp and you can tell that EVERY ounce of varemkeit the kids had for chasidishkeit and jewdaism for that matter is all literary ALL thanks to the various overnight camps these tayere shluchim went to.
b’gashmius-the friendship with fellow campers and staff,
b’ruchnius- all have been affected in more then one way.
are you saying that if mendel from, say, florida or chaim from the hic town in the state no-one goes to on-perpose, looks at a picture of the rebbe before going to sleep or decides to put negel vaser by his bed at night because in camp this is what their counslers farbrenged about the whole summer this comes from 18 year old’s “barely able to stay in the system” HOW DARE YOU!!!
PS.
camp is almost there only source to chasidishkeit!
and anyone that was a counsler would agree
Put the blame in the right place
The holy dedicated boys who sweat all summer do a great job and I can testify to the positive affect it had on my five boys. The positive effects the counselors have on the kids throughout the year is priceless.
The real culprits are the schools who close the school at least a week before camp and reopen at least 10 days after camp of 8 weeks long finished. And these weeks of doing nothing are the worst message you can send a kid. The school basically tells the kid that learning means nothing, that wasting entire weeks between school and camp is a non-issue.
Now we have Bein Hazmanim Yeshivos to fill the time that schools send to waste. How do you expect a kid to get back into learning when all the Chayus he got from camp dissipated over 2-3 weeks after camp. And let’s not forget that most summer programs are only 6-7 weeks, but vacation from school is 11-12 weeks long.
When I grew up we had school till Friday, camp started Tuesday and School started again 2 days after camp finished 9 weeks later.
11-12 weeks of vacation has no place anywhere, even the public schools are open later than our schools.
...and you are both correct...
There appears to be a clear dichotomy in the nature of the responses here.
There are those who are delighted that their kids come home and say krias shma, prepare the negel-esser, and although not mentioned, probably bench with a chayus. OK. Fine. Hello!? Where were these parents before camp with the krias shma etc??
That is on one side. Then you have the parents who have a chassidisheh home, with well thought out chinuch ideas (that they sought out when first married, and didn’t rely on their own “shoot from the hip” child raising.) The kids learn by example from the parents, and don’t need “lectures” about this that and the other, things that they take for granted (as we did as kids) because that’s what the parents are doing. The father who walks his kid to shul and the time on the way, in “lectures” and rehashing information – as in, “you will see the sefer Torah, are you going to kiss the sefer torah?” This is not chinuch, it is really an ingraining of an anxiety or burden, which at some time in the future the kid may/will want to throw off. I remember walking to shul with my father, it was the greatest time of the week. He was working hard, and in these fifteen minutes, my brother and I were all part of a light and natural relationship with him as a person, not as an anxious indoctrinator. No strained and constant egging on, about things that the kids sense is a weakness in the parent. (Think honestly about that one.) My father was not a local Rov in a southern Russian town, who was raising his genius son(s) as little tzadikkim, concentrating and focusing in totality, on serious issues. (Oh, we didn’t need camp to loosen up, nor were the teacher that much better then.)
It is those kids who don’t have a wholesome life (yes, Western style is OK) in a chassidisheh home, they are the ones who can gain from an enthusiastic bochur as a guide and leader. These are the parents defending the atmosphere at camp, because it is giving their kids what they themselves don’t have.
Tachliss: There should be two systems for the summer, and let the parents choose. To a degree, yeshivas of kayitz are in fact doing that. Now it is the responsibility of the parent to be honest in self assessment, and recognize whether their kid needs 8 weeks of camp to “get with it” on the negel vasser.
Melbourne is NOT like this at all!
Not having had much experience in US camps, I can’t speak for them, but it must be pointed out that CGI Melbourne is NOTHING like this! Dina Kahn and Miri Lipskier are incredibly devoted and hard-working, starting preparations *months* before the summer.
The Ohel Chana girls devote tens, if not hundreds, of hours of their time to putting together amazing programs and curriculums in the lead-up to camp, and keep it up throughout the actual time spent in camp.
Although it’s just 2 weeks, we manage to pack in SO much and make CGI such an incredible experience that every camper grows in some way, in primary and high school.
In fact, there are many non-frum, or not so frum, girls that come every year and take on new hachlatos tovos as a result of their camp experiences; relationships are forged with the OC girls who become their role models for years to come.
As I said, I don’t know what American camps are like, and for all I know they could be completely different. If they are anything like Melbourne, they can’t be doing that much wrong.
Shliach
I sense sensitivity in the author. Sensitivity to our values is a rare commodity these days.
Obviously some children are positively effected and some negatively by the camp experience. I think the authors point was that we could do better. I believe in Detroit they do better, but Montreal and New York have some ways left to go.
I’m not a mechanech (parents can breath a sigh of relief!) so take it as one man’s opinion.
dovid
you write
5) In the boy’s camps, the counselors are generally the less chassidishe bochurim. This is simply due to the fact that any bochur interested in learning would prefer to go to a yeshivas kayitz or at least be a learning teacher. It is therefore usually the fun seeking, available, camp-style bochur who is spending two months with the kids as their role model.
Likewise, the head counselors of the boy’s camps must be the kind of bochur who is ready to sacrifice half a year of learning to prepare for the summer.
this is 100% wrong all my counslers looking back where great learners and are now shluchim or mashpeim realized how much more you can effect a child and the world by becoming a counsler/head counsler..and that is the shlichus. not to sit and learn but to make personal CONNECTIONS AND DO WHAT YOU LEARN!
Wrong,Wrong ,Wrong.
how many camps has the author of this open-ed been to if your camp has a
problem then go and solve it, go get married counselors that are willing to cut-
out a summer with their families,if you are willing to then go and do it. but don’t
every chabad camp in the world and start bashing it. and their is no such thing as a “mushy rebbe song” i know of a kid that was not frum and went to a chabad camp and thanks to thos “mushy rebbe song”the kid is a chabad boy.
to 61
where yo ever to cgi new york or montreal?
NNNNNNNNNNO!!!!!!!!only to detroit.
then how do you know if ny or mtl are bad?
you know evryone says so.
so check the facts before you post loshon hora.
P.S.
you say the play was based on movies uh-hum…………
HOW DO YOU KNOW????????????????????????????????????
Shliach
to 64:
Yes. I was in all three camps. Honestly I wasn never a camper in detroit and never a staff member in montreal, but I was campers in MTL and NY and I was a staff member in NY and Detroit. Detroit tends to get younger bochurim and though they have their own issues… they are more temimusdik because they are barely out of mesivta.
Melbourne
Go Moshe & Dina