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So is it Oser to vote, or is it a good thing?

As the day of the elections for rabonim is approaching, Rabbi Osdoba and Rabbi Schwei released opposing statements in reference to the elections. R. Shwei wrote; “Those who participate in the elections will be assisting the organizers in their transgressions” while R. Osdoba wrote; “The election is a very positive thing, and I am requesting from each and every person who eligible to vote, to do so for the sake of heaven”.

Click on in the Extended Article to view both letters

91 Comments

  • 1. Moshe Cohen wrote:

    This is great! Why is the idea of Rabbonim so confusing?
    i think there should be eight canidates running and we should select four or whatever.

    if this isnt done right rabbonim wont have respect it will look like a circus.

    Hey webby make a online poll on ch.info lets see who your readers want. put all known rabbonim in ch. lets see whom wins.

  • 3. vote? wrote:

    webby,
    why dont you stick a poll on this site asking whether this elections will cause more controversy, or solve all problems?

  • 5. Fair and balanced wrote:

    If I thought I was confused before now I am really confused!!!
    If I vote I am going against rav schwei and partner in corruption.
    If I dont Vote I am only not listening to a request
    by Rav Osdoba

    Think I will Stay Home

  • 6. DaasHakohol wrote:

    It’s a hard decision, to Vote or Not Vote.

    How are we to decide, between these 2 Great and Equally Torah Giants?

    Answer:

    1) It’s simple arithmetic: Rabbi Schwei’s Psak Din is from 3 Rabbonim.

    Rabbi Osdoba asked many Rabbonim, to sign, with him but everyone refused, so Rabbi Osdoba is out in the cold, all alone.

    It’s 3 Rabbonim TOGETHER as a BAIS DIN (Rabbi Schwei, Rabbi Mangel and Rabbi Bogomilsky) who say emphatically: "Don’t Vote"

    One Rav, all alone, says "Vote" (Halachicly, One Rav is Great, but he is NOT "a Beis Din", by himself)

    Majority Rules and we don’t vote – That’s Halacha – Plain and Simple.

    2) "When in Doubt", "Do Without" –

    Besides, Haosek Bemitzvah Potur Min Hamitzvah –

    Make sure to be "To Busy" to get involved in this Machlokes.

    Go do Mivtzoim or something else "Good" and I am sure that if Hashem says your Potur from one Mitzvah while doing another, if Hashem can be Mochel you, Rabbi Osdoba will also excuse you as long as you use your Sunday for good things, "Leshem Shomayim" as Rabbi Osdoba Urges.

    This way, you are having respect for Both Rabbonim, being Yotzeh According to Both and you are saving your soal From Raising your Hand (in a Vote) which is AGAINST another Rav, Chas V’Sholom, Hashem Yishmereinu.

    Save your Soal from the Fire of Machlokes.

    3) We have 3d Elected Rav, Rabbi Heller.

    What does Rabbi Heller say about it?

    He will not say "Vote" nor "Don’t Vote" because he doesn’t want to take sides but we all know what Rabbi Heller Really THINKS, by looking into his Sefer called "Sholom Yihiye".

    In his Sefer, Rabbi Heller makes his opinion public and abundantly clear, in no uncertain terms and he says this verbally throughout the year, to all Kolel Yungelite.

    Rabbi Heller’s Golden Rule for Sholom:

    "Wherever their is Machlokes, I advise you to RUN AWAY as quickly as you can and as far away as you can, to make sure NOT to be part of it, in any way, whatsoever" – Rabbi Heller Says.

    Need we ask more?

    I think we all know what to do, now!

  • 12. What? Vote For the Sake of Heaven ? wrote:

    I think you have a Typo.

    It should read:

    "Vote for the Sake of Machlokes!"

    Wonderful!

    How appropriate, in the days when Talmidey Rabbi Akiva had to stop their Machlokes "The Hard Way".

    People are smart:

    Anyone who Votes; by their Action is Supporting Rubashkin’s Machlokes and Chutzpah, against Rabbi Schwei.

    Be Smart:

    Don’t vote and save your life from Machlokes.

    "Quit While Your Ahead, before your stopped "The Hard Way".

  • 13. Both sides? wrote:

    I find it very unsettling that people can equate the "two parties involved here as being equal,
    My fist point is:
    when the Halacha says that a Bais Din must have at least three people, there is a reason for that, and the reason is so that if there is a disagreement between Rabbanim regarding a Halacha, we can follow the majority.
    I am quite certain that this is not the first time that there was a machlokes between Rabbonim, as a matter of fact this has happened quite a bit through out history, and has most probably happened with our Bais Din here in C.H. within the past 15 Yrs. Between R. Marlow, R. Osdoba and R. Heller, yet never once in all of these years has the argument become public and personal.
    In the past when a Rav saw that he was ruled out by the majority, not only did he not argue with them publicly but he actually supported that Psak Din Publicly, even though he Privately Disagreed.
    This is precisely why the Halacha tells us to have three Rabbanim, not so that if the minority doesn’t like the ruling he should go out of his way to start to delegitimize the other Rabbanim as R schwai, tried to do to R. Segal.
    This same principle of respect applies even if for arguments sake there were only Two Rabbanim, as in the years before R. Marlow Past away, (after R. Heller had already pulled back) the disagreements never got out, and the reason for that is simple, there were rabbonim in the Bais Din who respected one another, and they respected themselves too.
    To sum up, ever since R. Schwei became a Rov, it has been hard to find even one instance where he has not publicly disagreed with R. Osdoba on an important Issue, and he didn’t do it in a very polite way either.
    It is very obvious to anyone who has a half of a brain in his head that the source of the problem is Rabbi Schwei,.
    I can write a book about this, and trust me i have absolutely no agenda, I am a Bocher learning in 770, but watching from the side its so hard to miss the truth, I don’t know how anyone can be so blinded.
    My second point is:
    The legitimacy of R. Schwei as a member of the BD"TS in the first place is questionable,
    First of all R. Schwei was allowed to run, only for the reason that R Osdoba couldn’t handle all of the communities issues alone, he never had Shimmush, but the plan was that he would get Shimmush on the job, by watching and observing R. Osdoba and learning from him.
    Instead of learning from R Osdoba and in that way getting the proper Shimmush, R. Schwei trampled on everything R. Osdoba said.
    Therefore R. Schwei’s shimmush is nonexistent which makes his status as rov in Crown Heights questionable, (as I recall someone mentioned that the Rebbe said that certainly the Rabbonim would get Shimmush),
    This is aside from the fact that people have already mentioned, the agreement of Rav Osdoba to let rav schwei run, was written on the same paper that said that Rabbi’s Raitport and Segal will help out in the Bais Din as well, therefore, if R, Segal and R. Raitport are not Legitimate neither is R. Schwei.
    My Final point:
    the fact that R Segal served on the Badats was known to r Schwei for a long time, yet he never questioned R. Segal’s status until R. Segal sided with R. Osdoba, on Halachos which again made R. Schwei feel threatened.
    Anybody who can equate the “two sides” Has got to be Braindead.

  • 14. impressed wrote:

    You are to be commended for doing the impossible! Giving real even-handed reporting, well presented! Let the readers decide, not the newswriters.

  • 15. saddened wrote:

    How sad that it had to come to such a Matzav! Hashem should have Rachmonus on our Shchuna that there should be Sholom V’shalva.

  • 17. Go and vote wrote:

    Once again rabbi Schwei has behaved like the puppet he is.he has zero ounce lof his own brains. This is what Herzog, sandhasue and the russian mafia expect of him.
    Everyone go and vote on sunday so we can rid ourselves of this terrible situation

  • 18. Getzel wrote:

    If there is a fight in Badaz – it’s good for the Jews (Lubavitch). Because they will not fight against the Rebbe any more, no more forcing "Sidur Kedushin", against the Rebbe, No more bogus Seruving against Merkos and Aguch (who no one cares less) just Shalom al Yisroel.
    Rabbis Osdaba and Shwei – keep it up…!

  • 19. Nuchie Gross writes wrote:

    To: Anash of Crown Heights
    From: NUCHIE Gross

    Subject: The importance of voting for Dayanim/Rabbonim this Sunday

    As a former member of the Vaad Hakohol during the last election and as someone who cares deeply about every member of the community, I am pleading with every eligible voter to make sure you vote on Sunday.

    Once upon a time Crown Heights could boast of a peerless Beis Din comprised of Dayanim who had no political or personal agenda, and whose only concern was the well-being of every man, woman and child in our shchunah whose importance extends throughout the world

    Sadly, of the three gedolim who served with such seamless integrity and had the brocho of the Rebbe, only Rav Osdoba remains — clinging steadfastly to an integrity that rises above political considerations, and serves no master but the Ribono shel Olam.

    And I speak as one who suffered personally because of Rav Osdoba’s psak, but it was a psak that had no hint of corruption and no scintilla of power politics or personal gain (this is not the time to elaborate.)

    Right now our community is in trouble. Our youth are confused, and more and more are going off the derech. And not just our young – entire families are adrift with nowhere to turn for guidance and help. The example being set by the current matzav in our Beis Din is causing unprecedented destruction and breakdown among our neighbors.

    Sadly there are a handful of corrupt yechidim in our community who have long desired to control our Beis Din because they view it as a key to personal, political and material power. And the only way they can enjoy such power is by having their influence over Dayanim who bend to their will.

    These individuals are manipulating some Rabbonim in order to derail this Sunday’s elections .

    These elections offer our kehilla the potential brocho of up to three outstanding Dayanim who have vast experience and no personal agenda or interest in personal gain. Each candidate is a Rov of utmost integrity (all have already served in various functions and where called upon as needed) who can help restore to our Beis Din the shem and tiferes for which it was once justly renowned.

    This election is totally consistent with the Rebbe’s goal of having “rov am” appointing the community’s Rabbonim

    Our Kehilla is today blessed with a Rosh Hakohol, Moishe Rubashkin, whose every waking moment is a testament to his integrity and to his selfless concern for even (and especially) the smallest and weakest members of the Crown Heights community. While no man is perfect, surely we all recognize his unstinting acts of tzedaka and chesed. For anyone to impugn his integrity with regard to the election is to behave like Korach, except that Korach was not motivated by cynicism, greed and personal gain.

    To his credit, Moishe Rubashkin has, in R. Segal, R. Raitport and R. Zirkind, assembled a slate of three outstanding, independent, experienced Rabbonim.

    What’s more he has openly invited, and continues to invite, other nominees.

    Those who would torpedo this election are free to list their own candidates. That they have not done so, is ample evidence of their true motives, to sow dissent and sinas chinom in order to wrest control of the Beis Din for their own underhanded and nefarious purposes.

    As the Rebbe often quoted from the Slichos of Erev Rosh Hashana; “Merubim tzorchei amcha” – our community’s needs are many. These needs will only be met if an honest, diligent, capable and totally apolitical Beis Din is allowed to function without a gang of hangers-on who care only for their own kovod.

    Please, please make sure you vote this Sunday.

    Thank you.
    Nuchi Gross

  • 20. Oh Boy! wrote:

    Kudos to Moshe Rubashkin for bringing peace to the community. I can’t wait for new Vaad HaKohol elections.

  • 21. Herzog the Hungarian wrote:

    Thanks to yankie Herzog for this machlokos. Remember he is Hungarian and they are the masters of machlokos. His frumkeit is a fake and he came here only to make machlokos.

  • 22. A Concerned Anash from Chicago wrote:

    Why do we always have to be a mockery in the publics eye??? Doesn’t Lubavitch and the Rebbe deserve better treatment then this??? Why does everything have to be exploited on the internet??? Today Lubavitch is doing great work world wide and all this garbage from New York is harming the image and reputation that so many Shluchim are trying to build. CAN WE STOP ALL THIS SHMUTZ AND CORRUPTION ON THE INTERNET, ONCE AND FOR ALL. Keep your local stupidity and machlokes in house without making it a public scene.

  • 24. Clarification wrote:

    I agree with a concerned Anash from Chicago. It is sad that we have to deal with this. Unfortunatly we have "Rabbi" Schwei in Crown Heights.

    Evetryone has a chov Kodesh to vote this sunday in order to clean up the mess.

    Yasher Koach to Moishe Rubashkin for doing something about this terrible mess.

  • 26. Rabbi Heller endorses the election wrote:

    Even though rabbi Heller does not give out any public letters he has unofficially endorsed the elections. This is according to several yungerleit who asked him what to do.

    He feels that the elections are the only way to solve the problem with the stalemate we have now.

  • 27. fair and balanced wrote:

    I think the lection should go forward only with both rabbonim in agreement and with a bipartisan group to find the canidates(its a big world)
    Only 25 to 50 year old married men shoul be allowed to vote Since we are paying the bills now and our children
    our the ones who will grow up over the next 10 -20 years

  • 28. CH wrote:

    We need a true Litvish Rav like in the old Chasidic shtetals. One that learned Mussar and has Middos Tovos.

  • 29. An Open Letter to rabbi Schwei wrote:

    AN OPEN LETTER TO RABBI SCHWEI

    Dear Rabbi Schwei

    We the residents of the Rebbe’s neighborhood have established our lives here. Our children Boruch Hashem are growing and hopefully be Yirei Shomayim.

    Several years ago there was an “election” were many people came out to vote not so much for your candidacy but under the pretext that Rabbi Osdoba needed help after the passing of Horav Marlow Z”L

    Yes you did have a huge amount of people who came out to the elections but this was mainly with the understanding that you will help the Beis Din.

    No sooner had you entered the Beis Din you provoked machlokos. In fact in the past three years there is not a single psak din that you agreed with Rabbi Osdoba.

    We as toshvay hashchuna are perplexed at your behavior. It is unbefitting for a Rov to behave in such a reckless manner.

    Instead of building the Beis Din you have destroyed it and you have been the source of much machlokos.

    Now Moishe Rubashkin and the majority of the vaad hakohol have decided to go forward and strengthen our Beis Din and add Rabbonim. You have taken the initiative to give out a letter blasting it legitimacy.(as expected)

    In all honesty Rabbi Schwei, how do you answer your actions? Do you really have the kehillah in mind or rather are you trying to continue with the current status qua and this way you bankel be secure for years to come.(it is a rather shaky bankel)

    We as toshvay haschuchna urge you to make the correct move now and give a letter of your endorsement for the elections this Sunday. As we say in America stand up to the plate and show your strength and leadership. We know you are being pushed around by a group of self serving yungerleit. With a terrible agenda.

    A gutten shabbos

    Toshvay Hashchuna

  • 30. Re: A Concerned Anash from Chicago wrote:

    Lubavitch is never a mockery in the eyes of the public. It is CROWN HEIGHTS AND ITS RESIDENCE that could never put their act together; and whenever they do finally put someone who is doing good for their community, they make sure to destroy that as well.

    So there you have it: Lubavitch is NOT CH, CH is a community of people who associate themselves with the Lubavitch following.

  • 31. To the Guy from Chicago wrote:

    you should be the last to talk. Why haven’t you stopped your fellow Chicago anash person who has used the internet for the last few years to air the Chicago anash politics on his website? If its good enough for you its good enough for us.

  • 32. we need one more wrote:

    be4 yom tov rabbi osdoba got up and said regarding eruv chatzerus and said you should make 1 brocho and then he left 15 minuts later rabbi shwei got up and said this what the rov said be4 i hold you shold make 2 brochos this shows that there will never be peace unless another rov is elected

  • 34. smart person wrote:

    whats the point of having machlokes lets make an election and then the added rabbonim will decid whos rite and whos rong and ther will be no machlokes

  • 35. pro elections wrote:

    there was a meeting btwn rabbi mendel hendel and reb menachem shgalov on one side and rabbi shmuel plotkin and reb moshe rubashkin on the other side discussing how both sides, rabbi shvay and asdoba should be happoy w/ the elections. rabi rubashin preposed that the elections could be delayed for a month the least two months and even some rabanim from outside could be invovled in this matter but on one condition that rabbi shwey will agree that the election will take place in A FIXED TIME but unfortunatly rabbi shwey didnt answer them . this shows that they are against the elections and they want the situation to remain status quo with out improvement .

  • 36. ygeisinsky wrote:

    Make a poll for CH info.
    I think we should also vote on the color war signs in 770.

  • 37. INSIDER wrote:

    I have just received INSIDE information, that Yitzchok Zirkind is not running. He is only there, to make the election look Kosher & Parve….

  • 38. Happy NOT to live there! wrote:

    I think Crown Heights needs help. If we are gonna start working on the problem, then it has to start from the top. The Rabbonim are fighting like a bunch of Kindergaten kids. Even if this whole thing quites down, Lubavitch as a whole, and Crown Heights in particular already lost alot of face in the Frum world. How did this happen? The answer is simple. We learn Chassidus to be Mevatel ourselves. Heres what happens when you ego is too important.

  • 39. Keep-m Fightin, Hands Off Merkos & Aguch wrote:

    Getz’l your 100% Right. That’s why I many others are not voting because if we fall into Rubashkin’s hands in this Election to elect 3 of Osdoba’s friends, we will give Osdoba Unilateral Power to wield his muscle on everyone unchallenged.

    Competition even amongst the Rabbonim having arguments is a VERY good thing, because each one can’t be SO CORRUPT, because the other will Tattle Tale on him.

    Even the Gemara says that "Fighting" amongst the Rabbonim is to be ENCOURAGED and COMMENDED (all competition is wrong EXCEPT for "Kinas Sofrim Tarbe Chochma"

    Let us all with BOTH old Rabbonim a LOT of Hatzlacha, fighting each other, so they have less time and energy to fight Merkas, Aguch and it’s leaders.

    Don’t Vote so that they will continue their fun with each other.

    Hatzlacha Rabba to both of them!

    Getzel wrote:

    If there is a fight in Badaz – it’s good for the Jews (Lubavitch). Because they will not fight against the Rebbe any more, no more forcing "Sidur Kedushin", against the Rebbe, No more bogus Seruving against Merkos and Aguch (who no one cares less) just Shalom al Yisroel.

    Rabbis Osdaba and Shwei – keep it up…!

  • 40. to toshvei hashchuna wrote:

    Why dont you sign your name since you obviously dont represent me or many other in ch.
    Most people feel that Rabbi Ozdoba is the source of the problem with Rubashkin being the weapon used to ferment a machloikes that is unprecedented.

  • 42. A Concerned Anash from Chicago wrote:

    I don’t intend to keep responding to those that wrote their reactions to my remarks. However, I do want to clarify a few issues that were said in regards to my remarks. Firstly, two wrongs don’t make on right. True in Chicago the internet was used for machlokes of which I was totally againt. However, their is one BIG difference from Chicago to Crown Heights. The truth is Crown Heights is the Rebbe’s Shchunah and the WORLDS eyes are focused on Crown Heights. The same can not be said about Chicago. The residence of Crown Heights have a great responsibility more then any other Anash community. As the Rebbe would always say, "Crown Heights has to set the proper example for the entire world". Crown Heights is not just a group of people that follow the derech of Lubavitch. But rather the central point of Chabad’s peulos throughout the WORLD. It is unfortunate that Crown Heightshers don’t value and live up to their great responsibilty that they have by just living in Crown Heights. IT IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE THE WORLD HEADQUARTERS OF LUBAVITCH AND THE RABBEIM, AD BIAS GOEL TZEDEK AND THEREAFTER.

  • 43. Chulent wrote:

    Gait aleh helfen dee viber tzzograiten dem kugel af shabbos oon zait nit mehader in dem toi’ameha

  • 44. Joe wrote:

    Rabbosai, dear beloved friends, GENUG SHOIN MIT DEE ALLEH Garbage,

    Go home and take care of your families, prepare for Shabbos, I hope you all have a good one

    Rabbosai, really, enough with all this trash already, VIFIL A SHIUR?

  • 45. totally confused wrote:

    i was just wondering, on waht basis do u vote for a canditate? and which rabonim would be replaced? if the new bais din has rabbi osdoba and rabbi shwei w/ a new rav, will it really be so much better?

  • 46. Gideon wrote:

    people, you are forgetting the main issue, and that is that Moshe Rubashkin still refuses to open the books of the Coucil. By law, he will end up in hot water unless he rectifies the situation. He is in a precarious position as far as his personal behavior as well. Coupling that with the scrutiny he is under montly spells big trouble. I hope he knows what he’s doing.

  • 47. Dilemma wrote:

    Crown Heights Dilemma:

    Rav Osdoba says Vote.

    Rav Schwei says don’t vote.

    What do I do?

    This is exactly what’s happening over the last three and a half years. THE RABBONIM CAN’T AGREE ON ANYTHING!

    How long will this continue?

    Who will your children look up to?

    Will there ever be resolution to this continuous conflict?

    Now is your chance to make the move: VOTE 3 NEW RABBONIM!

    Think of YOUR future!

    Think of YOUR CHILDRENS future!

    This election is not about the 2 existing Rabbonim.

    This election is about OUR future.

    This election is about OUR CHILDRENS future.

    THE REBBE SAID THAT THE KEHILA MUST VOTE FOR RABBONIM.

    Whoever opposes the election, step up to the plate. Submit your own candidates.

    So far, every effort to placate the opponents of the election was rebuffed.

    So far, every effort to ask EVERYBODY to submit THEIR candidates was rebuffed. (Rabbi Schweis’ suggested candidates, Rabbis Mangel and Bell, refused to run.)

    Nobody may accuse 3 respected, competent and independent Rabbonim, as being in anybody’s pocket, unless he himself is in somebody’s pocket.

    Nobody can accuse 3 independent, respected and competent Rabbonim, who sat on Dinei-Torah with Rav Schwei and Rav Osdoba (and sometimes they sided with one and sometimes they sided with the other, based on their independent Halachic opinion), as being unqualified.

    If you vote for additional Rabbonim, you will have no more such dilemmas, as the Torah states “Acharei Rabim L’Hatos” (majority rules).

    If you don’t vote, you will have this dilemma for the rest of your life, because there is no possibility of majority rules, with 2 Rabbonim who never agree.

    One says solve the problem.

    One says let’s not solve the problem.

    For the sake of solving the constant dilemma, VOTE!

    For the sake of peace, VOTE!

    For the sake of the future, VOTE!

    For the sake of your children, VOTE!

    Vote Sunday 2nd of Iyar (April 30, 2006) for all three of the candidates for additional Rabbonim in the Beth Din of Crown Heights. Vote for Rabbi Yitzchok Reitport, Rabbi Yitzchok Zirkind and Rabbi Shlomo Segal as Rabbonim of the Crown Heights Beth-Din.

    Vote Vote Vote

  • 48. go and vote wrote:

    It is good to hear that Rabbi heller endorses the election.
    Everyone must go and vote. If you do not you have it on your hands that you destroyed the kehillah and didnt vote with the Rebbe. Youa are no better then the Krinsky people

  • 49. Re Chcago wrote:

    I think Chicago is the one of the biggest boiling pots in lubavitch. they make machjlokos non stop and persecute those who do not agree with them. At least here in Crown heights everyone can live. No one has the monolopy here.

  • 50. Think About it! wrote:

    Rabbi Heller is an outstanding Talmid Chochom and is is definitely right by what is quoted above:
    Rabbi Heller’s Golden Rule for Sholom:
    "Wherever their is Machlokes, I advise you to RUN AWAY as quickly as you can and as far away as you can, to make sure NOT to be part of it, in any way, whatsoever" –

    BUT – what if you are the CAUSE of the machloket?

    Rabbi Heller is the third Rav in a triumvirate – Rabbi Heller is the deciding vote, especially when the others are such opposites. As a Rov who has taken a position in a Bais Din he does not have the luxury to say, I stay out of it. A yochid can and should stay out of this, but as a Rav, a member of a Beis Din, how can one say this does not concern me???

    It is because Rabbi Heller takes no sides that we do not know who to follow. After all, 1, is not a majority.

    If Rabbi Heller had resigned from the Beis Din they would have had to make a decision on a third Rov who actually participates, long ago and maybe we would not be in the straits we are.

    I am not judging Rabbi Heller, Chas V’Sholom, but there has to be a better reason for his silence, which has plunged a whole community into the fire of machloket, than to say he runs away from it!

  • 51. GIVING UP HOPE wrote:

    Nu, B"H, we where finally zoiche to the linke anti Rabbonim anti The Rebbe’s Schechunah again crawling out off their holes. This is thanks to Moshe Rubashkin for accepting the Menudeh Hayaduah back into our midst R"L. Perhaps Rubashkin has forgotten the sichos of the Rebbe concerning this sad Parsha or he most likely never heard or read them. When the Rebbe’s words are not adhered to, to the minutest detail, everything begins falling apart. The Chutzpah that is posted on the web is not to be tolerated. The MAKEH RAI’AIHU BASOSER THAT IS BEING POSTED TRANSCENDS ANY FORM OF ENUSHIYOIS. Whereas names of people were never posted, partisanship has made it kosher to sling mud at people without any pretense of mentchlichkiet or Yiras Shomayim. To paraphrase an old Jewish saying, ESS SHTINKT FOON KOPF!!!!!!

  • 52. avi wrote:

    Something both parties must realize is that the Jewish world watches what they do. Every paper that they send out is read by the world, and any argument they publish is a huge chilul Lubavitch. Of course each party would blame the other person for the argument but they both need to deflate their egos and have their arguments in a closed session, and work out any problems they might have.

  • 53. outsider wrote:

    some one whos worried about the elections (especially in the manner that r’ schway writes) is no doubt in my mind that his main conccern is the results…..
    if he dosent think the candidates are worthy let him dissguss with vadd hakol the resons and take them off.
    the fact that r’ ozdiboh wrte this letter without any other sig. shows his fearlessness, he says what he thinks despite presure! good for him!
    and to the member of anash in chicago, instead of taking the shmootz of the internet, lets take it out of the source!!! lets start with our selves!

  • 54. Poseach Al Shtei Haseifim wrote:

    Insider,
    Your too naive to belive everything you hear.

    I have inside information that Zirkind is full of – – – and he lies to everyone and his real position is that he will Look at "Avraham", when he is thrown into the Kivshan Haesh, if a Mirracle happens and he lives, he will jump on this band wagon and if Avraham get’s burned, he will jump on the other band wagon…..

    In other words:

    If the Polsters are right, that only a few small hundred people will vote (maybe 200 or 300 as compared to 1064 voters for Schwei) it will be a very big bizoyon and "Durchfal" for Avraham – then Zirkind will be ashamed, of himslef, and he will say he is not "a looser" because he never wanted to run, but if he gets a lot of votes, he will juimp on the horse and ride it.

    INSIDER wrote:

    I have just received INSIDE information, that Yitzchok Zirkind is not running. He is only there, to make the election look Kosher & Parve….

  • 55. MFH wrote:

    Hey, all you guys who are afraid that the Rabbonim would only be elected by 50% of the VOTERS, you are free to go out and write in any candidate (Yourself, maybe) and it will be counted as a nay vote for the other three

  • 56. Sinas Chinam...... wrote:

    so much sinas chinam!!!! this is what the Rebbe was shouting about in the summer of 1987, until it was to late and a "korben" was taken!! (the summer of alot of accidents and deaths)
    this destroyed the Beis Hamikdsoh! and it slowly destroys communities! we dont need anymore "korbonim". This is something we need to improve in all of us…

  • 57. no dilemma wrote:

    To solve the vote-don’t vote dilemma – look at it as Bori V’shemma – Bori Odif.

    Rabbi Osdoba=Bori he is definitely an elected Rov and Morah D’asra
    Rabbi Shwei=Shemma (maybe he is maybe he isnt)

    Bori Odif = Vote!

  • 58. Ohev Sholom wrote:

    Pro Elections,
    You’re a liar–as is Moshe Rubashkin. Moshe made all kinds of offers but as soon as they were accepted by Rabbi Schwei’s people he withdrew them.

  • 59. Bizoyon Talmid Chochom wrote:

    NOBODY SHOULD VOTE ! ! !

    How can ANYONE, even THINK, of having elections, when Rabbi Schwei is ABSOLUTELY AGAINST the elections?!

    Are we PUBLICLY, going to make a MOCKERY of Rabbi Schwei?!

    A CHUZPAH and HAOZOH, that’s UNPRECENDENTED!!!

    I strongly suggest, that NOBODY VOTE, until BOTH RABBONIM AGREE to the elections.

    I believe in respecting BOTH Rabbonim.

  • 60. Shev V-Al Taasef Adif - Rabbi Heller wrote:

    I just witnessed a few Yungelite asking Rabbi Heller if they should vote or not.

    First he didn’t want to answer but when he had seen they are serious, he said:

    "Shev V’Al Taasef Adif"

    (For those who don’t understand Hebrew – it means Better to just "do nothing" and ignore the entire controversy)

  • 61. shver wrote:

    I heard that one Rov Said day and the other said night One said white and the other said black. We should have elections with 5 people running and best 3 of five wins.

  • 62. Chaim T wrote:

    I just found out list of candidates from shmais.com.

    When did you ppl found out the list? Do we have any time to think about candidates, ask around, study?

    I think I am not voting just because I don’t know candidates and don’t have time to research on them.

  • 63. MOSHE SHMUEL wrote:

    WE NEED ONE MORE:
    UNFORTUNATELY, RABBI OSDOBA DROPPED THE BALL ON THAT ONE. THE MINHAG OD ANASH PREDICATED ON PREVIOUS MOIRAI HOI’ROAH IN LUBAVITCH FOR GENERATIONS IS TO MAKE TWO BROCHOS, A ROV IS ENTITLED TO MAKE A MISTAKE.

  • 64. A Kolel Jew wrote:

    Rabbi Heller is not for or against and he is NOT involved in the BD anymore. SO whatever he says has material effect on the elections

  • 65. TO SEEK THE TRUTH wrote:

    To Keep-m Fightin, Hands Off Merkos & Aguch:

    Yes you are 100% right with your opinion but for the wrong reason.

    WHOEVER GOES OUT AND VOTES AGREES WITHN OSDOBA’S TESTIMONY IN COURT (WHICH IS IN THE COURTS PAPERS) REGARDING THE REBBE ZY"A . WE ARE NOT GOING TO REPEAT HIS TESTIMONY OUT OF RESPECT T0 THE REBBE ZY"A.

    JUST BECAUSE SHVEI IS ——- AND YOU DON’T WANT TO LISTEN TO HIM DOES NOT GIVE YOU A RIGHT TO SUPPORT A RAV THAT TESTIFIED IN COURT AGAINST THE REBBE…

  • 66. go with schwei wrote:

    You gotta listen to R Schwei isn’t R’ Osdoba in sirruv from agudas harabonim????!!!??? I don’t think R’ Schwei has any sirruv issues.

  • 68. To Shev val Tessef Adif wrote:

    Since two Rabbonim of the Bes Din did not come on to say to vote , Rabbi Heller said "SHEV ‘AL TESSEF ADIF", and Rabbi Scwei said not to vote, i guess tha t means HOLCHIM ACHER ROV and as a respect to the psak, its better not to vote and majority rules,

  • 69. Why wrote:

    I was completly fixed on voting until I heard that it’s a bogus election/ballot.

    I heard R’ Moshe Bogomilsky (not Pesach Shmuel, Moshe) was going to run for rav, BUT when R’ Osdoba heard he immediately condemnd it due in part that, R’ Bogomilsky is too "friendly" with Krinsky-Merkos.

    This is a bogus ballot and it’s under a false premise to belive that any rav could have run.

    I guess its true that this is all to benefit a personal agenda, which for once I really wanted to belive it was not about.

  • 70. independant thinker wrote:

    Dont tell me that I DONT have a right to voice my own "rabonim wish-list" paper on ANY given day of the year INCLUDING April 30th

    All the rest is commentary…

  • 71. Question ? wrote:

    i heard an interesting question today.

    how do you NOT listen to the two rabbi’s ?

    if you vote you listen to osdoba if you dont vote you listen to schwai.

    so can a person go against the two of them ?

  • 72. Boruch N. Hoffinger wrote:

    Why should many of the opinions here be respected?
    Why don’t people put their names? Isn’t this a "Pashkville?"

  • 73. Krauss wrote:

    Why,

    What about the LIE that 1000 people signed a petition against the elections?

    Anyway, Voting for Zirkind or Reitport is NOT supporting Osdoba!

    Reitport and Zirkind are known to be very strongly opinionated, and will give Osdoba a run for his money.

    Just like the first thing MR did was to stop the irrelevant fight with Fisher, so will the new Rabbonim find a way to make peace with Merkoz.

  • 74. Renegade wrote:

    at least he’s honest…

    somebody asked moshe rubashkin on shabbos why he doesnt have a "none of the above" option on the ballot as that would give the election much more legitimecy.

    rubashkin’s reply?
    "I’m afraid of what the outcome will be"

    at least he’s honest, at least he admits it’s a fixed election.

  • 75. Itzik_s wrote:

    Look, no beis din in the world has only 2 rabbonim. And we have nothing but machkloikes between the 2, who cannot work together as it now stands. This situation with the elections is not ideal, but still, I am holding my nose and voting.

    Let’s give peace a chance. You never know what the new candidates will do once elected – they may bring R’ Schwei and R’ Osdoba together or they may marginalize R’ Schwei as some people expect – but still anything is better than what we have now.

  • 76. Common Sense - DON-T VOTE wrote:

    Where on earth is the common sense over here?

    It seems obvious to me that we do need a third active Rov in the Bais Din being that Rabbi Heller does not get involved in any difficult cases that involve a machlokes, while most cases involve a machlokes.

    However this should be done with the consent of the entire Bais Din. This should be done with Rabbi Shvei’s approval. It does not seem that Rabbi Shvei was given a chance in the matter as whom he would like to choose. Worse yet the very person who was summoned to a Din Torah, Rabbi Segal, chose not to obey. How can the community choose to elect someone who does not respect the very Bais Din he is being elected to?

    I was told by a number of informed sources, that ever since rabbi Shvei was elected, Rabbi Osdoba tried to make it clear to Rabbi Shvei that he was only a junior Rav, and that rabbi Osdoba is the supreme leader. It seems to me that it was R’Osdoba who had started this adverse relationship. I don’t believe that there is any basis to the claim that R’Shvei never had shimush, it sounds like a bunch of BS to me.

    Other issues of concern are R’Osdoba directly affiliated with the Mafioso Brook who still has a cloud over his head with the three mysterious deaths from years back. R’Osdoba is a direct beneficiary from the Hoshgocho business together with Brook. There is no way that the money R’Osdoba makes does not impair his judgment. The hashgocho was intended to be run by a completely separate entity not by the Rabbonim.

    Rubashkin has interests with CHK because it is the Kashrus entity on his family business AGRI Processors. It would therefore make sense for him to side with R’Osdoba. Rubashkin has some good sides but he is no doubt a hot headed character. His way of doing things is, “my way or the highway". He is not looking to bring the Rabbonim together rather he wants them to do his will. If anyone is trying to run a dictatorship it is him. He does not have the full support of the other VAD members.

    With all said, bottom line, DON’T VOTE.

  • 77. Rabbi Levi K. wrote:

    y dosnt everyone go and ask the igros?

    i asked the igros and it answerd something about the second posuk of shir hashirim… can someone please explain?

    btw whats if different ppl get different answers?

  • 78. Itzik_s wrote:

    i asked the igros and it answerd something about the second posuk of shir hashirim… can someone please explain?
    ____________________________________________

    LOL – are you referring to "yishakeini?"

  • 79. The Rebbe-s Room says: Don-t Vote ! wrote:

    In the Rebbe’s room today it was officially announced that:

    " No One Should Vote "

    That comes as no surprise, since Rabbi Osdoba did not allow Rabbi Bogomilsky to Run, because Rabbi Bogomilsky respects the Rebbe’s Mazkir in Merkos and Aguch.

    Rubashkin has a double Standard:

    If Rabbi Osdoba doesn’t approve a candidate, you can’t vote for him but if the other Rav, Rabbi Schei doesn’t approve of the candidates, Rubashkin ignores the Rav!!!

    Rubashkin gives Rabbi Osdoba, Shochad – A Free Bungalow every summer (but not to any other Rav)

    Have I heard anyone here mention the word "Corruption"?

  • 80. CURIOUS wrote:

    NO ONE SHOULD VOTE…
    MOSHE RIBASHKIN WILL JUST MAKE CROWN HEIGHTS EVEN MORE SPLIT WITH WHAT HE’S DOING. hE JUST DOESN’T LIKE RABBI SHWEI BECAUSE HE WAS AGAINST HIS PURIM SEUDA. (WITH GOOD REASON. BUT WE WOUN’T GET INTO THAT.)

  • 81. VERY SIMPLE SOLUTION wrote:

    WHAT’S THE BIG DILEMMA ABOUT?

    IT’S TWO AGAINST ONE- THAT’S AS CLEAR AS DAY!!

    BOTH RABBI SCHWEI AND RABBI HELLER SAID NOT TO VOTE! ENOUGH PPL HEARD RABBI HELLER SAY NOT TO VOTE, SO TWO AGAINST ONE MEANS YOU GO BY THE MAJORITY OF THE CURRENTLY ELECTED RABBONIM!

  • 82. Holtzberg wrote:

    Voting starts today, who ever wants peace go vote! Who ever likes fights stay home, or curse r. Osdoba, one thing i want to tell you all the fight between the rabbonim is so big that when people try to make peace by voting, the rabbonim still fight, this shows one thing, evryone must vote, i will also vote!

  • 83. Problem wrote:

    We may not have a Bais Din Kavua anymore ie you can say to a hazmona I want to go to a diffrent bais din.

    The only way a bais din Kivua can force someone to come to a din torah is because it was validly elected by the community majority with all "able" to vote. Here, since there is a psock din prohibitting the community to vote, the bais din is not elected by the comunity majority because the comunity are not allowed to vote.

    We may have to reelect all rabonem to get a B"D Kevua, which will proberly no be allowed.

    In any case how is Rubashkin allowed to stay in the vaad if he unalateraly transfered our public funds so that only he can have access and refuses an accounting request? Nitzegim, please do your job. Thank you.

  • 84. eli wrote:

    i have one simple question;

    i read all these letters in 770 on shabbos, each letter starts with a whole "hayetochun" that so and so wrote against rabbi shwei..how can one say things against rabboinim… and then a few lines later the same writer curses out other rabbonim and makes trash of them (raitport, segal..), mi mo nafhshoch – can u make fun of rabbonim or not?

    on teh same lines, there was a letter circulating against the elections and signed by a group of anash (?) (who are known to try in every way to fight the rebbe…) and they support shwei and not osdabo.. if i recall these same people were fighting "l’kovod harabonim" for osdabos sake and now tehy are fighting with the same oragnization name "vad lman kovod harabonim" against osdabo??? the excuse then was "abir shebaabirim" (the rebbe ….) so what happened to him now?

  • 85. Bottom Line wrote:

    This election will lead only to more machlokis – some will accept the results and some won’t and instead of making peace the end will me MORE Rabbonim fighting with each other. Bottom line: don’t vote!

    Since Rubashkin was elected we have had more and more fighting and machlokis, one thing after the other. Bottom line: Rubashkin has to go!

  • 86. Hu_Ra to Rubashkin and Company wrote:

    Anyone who thinks the Big Fight is on Sunday and on Monday it will be over and we will Kaviyochol, have "peace" of newly "elected" Ra-Bonim, is very Naive.

    The Real Fight will FIRST BEGIN on Monday, after the election!

    Regardless of the outcome and regardless who votes or doesn’t vote and regardless of who wins or loses – either way Rubashkin will announce he has his own new Corruptly "(Kaviyochol) Elected" Rabbonim while nearly 1,000 people who signed a protest letter against the election, will denounce the knew Kangaroo Court and will not recognize it at all.

    Monday, after the Corrupt Election Process, will bring absolutely no "peace" at all, only the beginning of a whole new bigger fight regrading the new Corruptly Chosen Ra-Bonim.

    Let us all thank Rubashkin for blessing us with new and more machlokes and let’s all give him a big round of applause:

    Hu_Ra, Hu_Ra, Hu_Ra!

    (for those unfamiliar with Hebrew, it means "He Is Bad – He is Bad – He is Bad)!

  • 87. not staying home wrote:

    is it shev v’al taaseh or is it kovshu p’neihem b’karka? food for thought.

  • 88. xyz wrote:

    People are saying different thhings about Rav Heller’s opinion. Maybe your column should have interviewed Rav Heller and asked him his position towards the election and whether he still considers himself as part of the Beth Din.

  • 89. Not staying home wrote:

    To very simple solution, and others

    It’s not true that Rav Heller said not to vote, or is against the elections. Please stop spreading shekarim. Rav Heller said to "do what you think is best for the shechunah". so your reasoning falls apart.

    The polls are open at this time. Al teerah v’al teichoas from the terror tactics and intimidation. Vote l’chatchillah ariber and l’shem shomayim, and help the shechunah acheive some normalcy.

  • 90. the emes wrote:

    Why are the people afrioad of elections?? Everone knows rabbi Schwei is afraid of the elections. he doesnt want them now later or ever. he is the sole cause of the machlokos in Crown Heights.

    Go vote dont be intimidated

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