The Crown Heights Bais Din released a statement a short hour ago regarding the suspicion that one of the women working in the bakery, rolling the dough, wasn’t Jewish. Here is a translation of the letter, the letter itself can be viewed in the Extended Article.
In answer to the question that many had regarding the Matzos sold at the bakery in Crown Heights that is under the ownership of R. Yitzchok Tenenbaum.
According to the Din the matzos are kosher, and those who want to be Mehader for the night of the Sader should get other Matzos.
The Crown Heights Bais Din Releases Statement Regarding CH Matzos
The Crown Heights Bais Din released a statement a short hour ago regarding the suspicion that one of the women working in the bakery, rolling the dough, wasn’t Jewish. Here is a translation of the letter, the letter itself can be viewed in the Extended Article.
In answer to the question that many had regarding the Matzos sold at the bakery in Crown Heights that is under the ownership of R. Yitzchok Tenenbaum.
According to the Din the matzos are kosher, and those who want to be Mehader for the night of the Sader should get other Matzos.
And regarding the issue of money, the time isn’t now, before Pesach, to discuss it with the proper attention necessary, and with the help of G-D we will after Pesach.
With blessing for a Happy and Kosher Pesach.
In the name of the Bais Din
Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba
steelwool85
so they are not gonna give everyone 6 matzos?
dough$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
is that the only thing wrong with the matzos?
cardboard you can buy anywhere!
this is BS
what about schwei?
Yossie Avrohom
Who will pasken on the monetary issues?
Actually who is resposible for the monetary issues? One would say the person who authorized this person to work there.
In other words the hechsher!
So we will go to the hechsher for a din Torah about themselves???
YIsroel
could someone please clarify the psak. what is meant by the words “according to the din the matzos are kosher”? does it mean that they are kosher for the rest of Pesach but not for the Sdarim? or does it mean that they are kosher also for the Sedarim but without a hidur? If they are kosher only for the rest of Pesach not for the Sedarim then the matzo bakery must supply everyone with six matzos for the sedarim.
stay alive
who ever thinks they will be getting a dime back dont hold your breath……….you will pass out.
boruch hashem
What did the Rabbonim have to mish arain gelt gesheft?
The matzos are Kosher – period.
How you as the customer feel it should be used is your business.
anon
can we exchange what we bought????
source
the women was found to be jewish
and her mother as well
and yes her mothers mother was jewish
it all started when 2 people there got into a fight and one said to the other you arent even jewish
the matzos are kosher mehadrin min haminhadrin
KMA
Might try exchanging the Rabbonim?
YYS
The matzos are not mehuder according to the letter period therefore if you want to be cearfull for the seder don’t eat it then and if you want to be cearfull for the whole pesach don’t eat it at all period.
Regarding the money it is obvios if they don’t make a commitement before Pesach nothing will happen after pesach.
Bochur!
the only time for the mitzvah you need to eat matzos is first night (in “chutz laaretz” also we are mehader also the second seder) but min-hatora only the first night
therefore :
1.the matzos are kosher (like any other thing you eat on pasach)
2.for the mitzvah you need to eat matzos by a yid “leshma” (because a non jew does not mean when he says “lesham matzos mitzvah”) and the matzos are not good for the sadder to do the mitzvah
not so happy-on Adar
like everything else, its a wishy washy letter trying to please. why can’t there finally be Rabbonim who say the truth? Period.
It’s clear from the hesitation to be forthright in the letter that the Matzos are not mehudar 100%. So why doesn’t he say so when this is such an important Mitzvah. Why and of whom is he afraid of? we sure have problems it seems.
I payed a lot of money for Bochurim Matza which is eaten by all members of the mishpocho and guests. what’s the story??? Ha??
Yossel
B”H
Why are some people bringing Kashrus in with money?
Money is the most important thing..we’re talking about business here….dont confuse the issue. Kashus is one thing, business is another.
Since when does kashrus interfere with the holy task of making a profit? Don’t we cheat the government when we’re off the books? And do draidlach with Food Stamps? You have the right to buy those cigarettes and newspapers with Food Stamps!
Who cares if the Rebbe said that we should be HONEST in business? That’s old fashioned! What’s important is that you have that shiny new Nissan Armada or Infinit SUV!
Enjoy your Pesach, and chew those Matzos really well!
think positive
to Baruch Hashem:
people are asking what the halacha with the money is so thats why they added that in. It’s crazy- whatever comes out some people have to find something negetive to say about it. what do you care if they added the part about the money???????
somebody
To not so happy
This is the psak and when rabbonim issue something if you agree or not that is what the din is. They said the staight out truth- its kosher but not mehudar, like you say this is an important mitzva so YOU do how YOU feel!
CHer
I couldn’t help but notice how, instead of Rabbi Osdeba taking responsibility and referring to the matzah’s as under his hashgacah, he passes-the-buck-on by referring to them as Tennenbaum’s.
Secondly, his pesak doesn’t make sense; if it’s Kosher for Pesach then why is there even an issue of “dinnei mamonos” after Pesach… And after Pesach, will the Beis Din take responsibility or will they pass-on-the-buck again (I wonder what the halachic implications of nogeh bidover are in this case)?!
mendel
HMM… LETS THINK, WHO GIVES THE HECHSHER ON THE MATZAH BAKERY??????????????????
OH I GOT IT….THE CROWN HEIGHTS RABBONIM!!!!!!!
WELL WHAT DO U THINK THAT THEY WOULD MAKE IT TREIF??? OR EVEN NOT MEHUDAR???
ITS KNOWN AROUND THE WORLD THAT THE CH HECHSHER IS THE BEST!!!
THERE ARE NO PROBLEMS WITH IT, THERE NEVER WILL BE, AND THERE NEVER WAS!
AND ON THE SUBJECT OF THE MONEY, DEPENDS ON “HOW MUCH IS INVOLVED”
SINCE ITS TO MUCH THEREFORE EVRYBODY LOOSES :-)
what i wanted to point out is
a) there are problems with the CH hashgacha.
b) its not only with the matzah, open your eyes.
c) other hesherim(not always lubavitch)are sometimes just as good and sometimes even better.
Matzah Eater
This is the laziest letter I have ever seen written. No description of the problem, no discussion of the issue, no resolution or decision on the issue, no statement of innocence or fault on the part of the bakery, just a good old brush off.
fair and balanced
This is the Line we do not cross. Like Masada, Pesach kashrus is the last stronghold of the CHK, especially after last year’s scandal with the tuna fish in oil(Kitnyos. I personally do not it eat tuna on Pesach. I do eat Matzah. This is it; enough is enough. The one and only solution is the immediate firing of the whole kashrus wing of the Beis Din (CHK). Yes, I know everyone has a family and so on, but I will not sacrifice my level of Kasrut for these people. The anash of Lubavitch worlwide are more important than a handful of people. We must draw the line here and no farther!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It is clear that the matzah is not mahader. The very least they should exchange 2lb boxes of pre scandal for 2lbs baked after. This I sure there is Time.
YYS
As far as the money is concerned, L’CHOL HA’DAIYOS you can EAT it on Pesach! (As well as a whole year!)
As far as the matzos are concerned, you should ask a ROV, but only after pesach and not before. (Because now is not the time or place – EIN HAZAMAN GRAMA!)
A CHAG, (and this is the EIKAR-KOSHER!!!!) V’SOMEACH!
ha
it doesnt even say in the letter that the lady is not jewish.
reb fishel
I think an outside BD should be set up to deal with the money lost and Rabbi Osdaba and Tenebaum together should feal our pain and Pay the price.
horrified
Those of you who are trashing the rabbis as if you know better and trying to incite machlokes are just horrible people; you should be ashamed of yourselves
A FED UP C.H RESIDENT
ALE TZUZAMEN “LESHEIM MATZOS SHIKSE”!!!
wish-wash invertebre
that response is a cop out. it’s either kosher or it’s not. if i didn’t want “to be mehudar,” i’d buy maneshewitz @ $3.00 a lb., not $16.00 a lb.
annoyed
I’m with you, think positive. Some people are just looking for something bad to say so they can maintain the machlokes in Crown Heights (chas veshalom it should be left to die)
awacs
“What did the Rabbonim have to mish arain gelt gesheft?
”The matzos are Kosher – period.
“How you as the customer feel it should be used is your business.”
Well, it’s a consumer protection issue, and this is stuff that Rabbonim *are* sensitive to.
Ppl thought they bought one thing, and ended up with another. it makes no difference that either one is ‘kosher’, if I bought a Yanover esrog and found out that I got a Kfar Chabad one, I sure would be upset!
ANNOYED AT ALL THE DISRESPECT
THIS IS WHY MOSHIACH ISN’T HERE!! IF EVERYONE WOULD JUST KEEP THEIR BIG FAT MOUTHS SHUT AND NOT TALK AGAINST THE RABBONIM!!!!!!!!!!! IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM KEEP IT TO YOUR DAMN SELF AND MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE!!! GET A LIFE! WHATEVER A RAV SAYS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW AND IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT… WELL THAT IS JUST TOO DAMN BAD!!! RESPECT…. LEARN THAT WORD!!! AND COME ON PEOPLE MONEY IS NOT EVERYTHING.. G-D DID YOUR MOTHER’S TEACH YOU ANYTHING RIGHT.
yosef ben Reb Dovber
To Webby
How can you allow on your site what
“source wrote:” The letter of the
beis Din clearly implies that this was not the case that she is NOT 100% Jewish
otherwise the Matzo would be completely Hiddur… It’s your job to edit something like this that is just throwing smoke and misstating the fact’s for the moment, after a clear letter from the Rov..
Thank you
Take a Deep Breath
Remember, everything happens for a reason. Hashem is in control of every detail in the world, and I’m sure He’s hoping that we’ll practice a little v’ohavta l’rayacha komocah in the face of this great nisayon. When we see that a mistake has been made, we need to be understanding in the same way that our great self-love makes us understanding of our own mistakes. In this merit, may Hashem grant us a kosher and frelichin Peaaach and take us out of this golus!
Concerned
Many people from far away places- like us here in Australia…….have no other options but to eat the matza we can get.
Our matza was shipped weeks ago.
I am very unhappy with the statement that we should eat ‘other’ matza by the seder……we have no OTHER matza!!!!!!!
Disapointed and concerned
Is she Jewish or not?
If she is,then surely the Rov will retract the letter! If he doesnt that would mean that he still retains his position!
PS if the Rov is making a psak that it may not be Mehader in such a Bdieved situation (Rabim,Hefsed Momon,as well as the obvious negative effect this has on his own hechsher and the bakeries business) You can imagine what the Halacha Lchatchila would be!
Goyishe Yidden
I’d rather Have a Goy bake my Matzos Lishah or Lishmi then have that aggressive Isreali Yid who is the “Mixer” touch the raw materials I will eat.
Sometimes it is the YID in the food industry who is always the problem, and because they think they could turn on the fires just because they are Jewish so there is no problems, it is these Yidishe chef’s who manage and own butcher shops such as Shevach which don’t have adequate supervision, all because they are considered “Heimish”, or “Shomer Shabbos”, or “Jewish”. There are so many times when it is the YIDEN in the commercial kitchen that destroy Kashrus and spiritually poison us.
I was once in the bakery, and when the Mashgiach began to recored the 18 minuets on a chart, this Israeli putz who was mixing the dough would not let the Mashgiach get within his “personal space”, where the chart was placed as that is where the water first comes into contact with the dough.
What does that say about an establishment that brags of its Kashrus standard? Perhaps that mixer should be the “Yid” we all will rely on for the quality of the Kashrus we will be using on Peisach. What does this say about the “Balabatim” of the bakery? do they care for the quality they boast about? or your money?
OSM
KMA- Rock on !
anon
the matzos are NOT kosher for the sedarim…open a mishna brura!
The matza bakery will have to take a financial loss and provide everyone with matzos for the sedarim.
LETTER
source wrote:
the women was found to be jewish
and her mother as well
and yes her mothers mother was jewish
it all started when 2 people there got into a fight and one said to the other you arent even jewish
the matzos are kosher mehadrin min haminhadrin
DO YOU HAVE A DIFERENT VERSION OF RABBIS OSDOBAS LETTER?
Pained (and have to buy Matzos again)!
We kept looking the other way with all the other issues of the Beis Din, now it has permeated even to the Matzo we eat on Pesach. Even Rabbi Osdaba himself says go out and buy other matzos! We didn’t take care of these issues before, now they have permeated everywhere. “Oy Meh Hoya Lanu”
upset CHer
Rabbi Osdoba messed up again!
What is he so busy with now that he can’t discuss the money. I highly doubt that he is the one cleaning for pesach in his house!
And besides, there still is over two weeks to pesach so what’s his problem? HOW MUCH TIME DOES HE NEED????
This just shows how he is totally not affected by what happens to the anash in the community. As long as he didn’t have any monetary loss why should he care?
His letter is pure chutzpa to the people of CH and we should not let him get away with it!!!
I fully agree with the person who wrote that they should pay us for the 6 matsos and after Pesach discuss the rest!!!!!!!!!We are also very busy before pesach!!!!
have a heart
Did Rabbi Osdoba write that letter?
Only someone with no heart could have written such a letter.
It’s interesting that such a big scandal happens and the Rov writes such a short and heartless letter.
CHer
To Rabbi Osdoba:
DEAL WITH YOUR PROBLEM!
IT WONT GO AWAY!
BY YOU PUSHING IT OFF TILL AFTER PESACH YOU ARE ONLY MAKING IT WORSE!
WHO IS GIVING YOU ADVICE???
GET RID OF HIM!
OR IS IT JUST YOU??
CHT
It drives me crazy how much blind hate and impatience towards a Rov on this site. Let’s say there is time to deal with monitory issues before Pesach – does it make too much difference. You still need to go and get some more Matzo.
I can understand complains towards bakery owner who charges a lot and yet mess-up, rude to workers and etc. (Thats why there are goyim in there, Jews are free people and naturally cannot stand such a rudeness) But to a Rov who just tries to solve it most optimally before Pessach and even if his decision deserve critics – why to hate.
As most in CH, I was terribly disappointment about election issues – but is this generic token for continues hate. Don’t get into vicious circle of hate – we will never get out of it.
CHT
Concerned,
I understand that you don’t have other Matzo – but just because you don’t have other matzo, do you want R. Ozdoba to lie to you.
A bissel seichel (chas vesholom!!!!!)
Rabbi Osdoba is always extremely busy right before pesach. MANY pesach shalos come in in addition to th regular shalos he needs to deal with on a day to day business.
Then there is the selling of Chometz which takes up many hours of the day starting next week.
He also wrote that the issue at hand is koved rosh. In other words people can’t think straight about it now because they are too worried. Once Pesach is over and it won’t be such a burning issue, it can be looked at with a clearer mind.
Obviously it is also not very practical to have the bakery bake for the next 2 weeks just to give out free matza. Besides for the enormous financial issue it also means that all the people who rely on the matza baked the last 3 weeks before pesach won’t have any matza this year.
YIsroel
As expected the Rabbanim let the people down again. instead of placing the blame where it should be which is the matza bakery and the Vaad Hakashrus the y are saying to the people “go jump in the lake” buy fresh matzos and pay through your nose. The Rabbonim should have said to the Matza bakery “you must allow the people to return all the matza they bought for a full refund, or else we will withdraw our Hechsher”.
Hidur
Since when is it a hidur to have ladies touch the matzah?
Since when is there a halachic difference between people who are mechalel shabbos and goyim when it comes to these issues?
Tinok shenishba means you can’t blame them and they will not burn for their sins but they are still posul le’eidus and ne’emonus.
You will never see a non religious jew being a witness under a chupa and you will never see them being a mashgiach in a restaurant.
People who do not care about matzah can not work lesheim matzah.
If she takeh wasn’t jewish she wasn’t a niddah either. At least that for a change.
concerned
On one side you have the chsash that you MAY be eating a matzoh from a person who MAY not be jewish and therefore MAY have not paid attention to the mashgiach when he announced lsheim matzos mitzvah and those matzos MAY not be consider to be lishmah LICHATCHLAH.
On the other side you have machloikes and shfichas domim k’pshutoi.
Any child who will see his father koching zich in this chshash, dchshash, dchshash dchshash dchshash of only being yoitza a mitzvas aseh bdieved, at the expense of shfichas domim is going to grow up really confused. Especially when his father regularly blows off zman krias shma, chechks his tfilin every ten years, did not change his retzuois after the scandal that Rabbi Landua discovered, still drinks mahkeh that has a chshsash of yayin nesech, vchu, vchu, vchu.
on the lighter side...
see, it pays to leave things to the last minute!
CHT
fair and balanced:
How can they make in 2 weeks all the matzo that was made in half a year.
Berl
What our we left with? In the past a “Lubaviych Hechsher” was the top Hechesher, but now – Matzos we have toget elsewere, the “Lubavitch Shcita” is not better or more Mehudar than any other Schcitas…We are left with nothing to be proud of
monsey #2
its crown heights’s monsey!
out of towner
I bought Boro Park Matzas, it has CHK hashcacha, is there a problem there or just in the crown heights matza baker
THANK YOU R- TENENBAUM!!**!!**!!**!!**!!
R’ Tenenbaum did the right thing that many of us wouldn’t have had the GUTS to do!!!
R’ TENENBAUM WENT STRAIGHT TO THE RABBONIM REGARDING *S*U*S*P*I*C*I*O*N*S THAT COULD MEAN A BIG LOSS IN PARNASSAH!!!
Thank you R’ Tenenbaum!!! PEOPLE: keep in mind that his MONEY LOSS is so that *Y*O*U* could be doing the mitzvah properly!!!
Menachem Mendel
Dear Machlokes Inciter,
Who the H–L do you think you are to talk against a Rebbe-appointed Rav in a Beis Din??!! Where do you get your chutzpah?
Just relax and mind your own business, and if you really can’t deal with the beis din in Crown Heights, LEAVE and good riddance to you.
kollel yungerman
the chutzpah and talk on this blog towards a rov is amazing
you guys should watch out what you say even if you dont agree with a rov if you hold yourself as frum people according to halocho you cant say the things you are saying
you should ask mechila from rav osdobo
isaacs
In the world of money companies are responsive to their customers needs and concern. Companies listen and respond. Instead of discussing the matter here, why can’t the Beis Din have website set or email address that they could respond to complaints. I feel as if as if I’m dealing with a brick wall when I deal with the Beis Din. Of course we need kavod for the Beis Din, but we need a explanations we can understand also
Who-s APPROPRIATE to make our matzahs?
B”H
Is that a man’s or a woman’s bare elbow in the picture (right side, just above picture of Bais Din letterhead)? I assume it’s a woman’s, since the picture is of the ladies rolling out the dough. If it’s a man’s, what’s he doing so close to the ladies?
Shomer mitzvos? Yiras shemayim? Kabbolas ol?????
We should do what they do in Williamsburgh! They run their matzah bakeries much better, from what I hear.
Unbelieveable
To:Goyishe Yidden
(????? couldnt find something more degrading to call your fellow Yidden???)
YOU should be ASHAMED of YOURSELF their arent enough people involved already whos lives are probably shattered YOU have to go and mix more inoccent people up in this how can YOU do such a SENSELESS TACTLESS STUPID thing what is YOUR problem its because of people like YOU that Moshiach isnt here yet and we all have to suffer just because YOU dont have a LIfE so its others lifes that YOU feel the need to mess up seriously YOU obviously have major issues to be able to write the things YOU wrote Hashem should help YOU
and for YOUR OWN sake i hope that Hashem and all these inocent people who YOU are truly hurting cand find within themselves some forgiveness for you because there is obviously something seriously wrong with YOU if you can even think about writting the things YOU wrote
Menachem Meyer Blau -Of C.H. Hotlines
When you write a comment (especially a CRITICAL comment),put your REAL name on it (like I’m doing), and don’t hide…
2)I am SHOCKED, that there’s no apology whatsoever, by Reb Yitzchok Tenenbaum!
If this were to happen in any other food establishment, the first thing you’d hear ia an APOLOGY..Also, the least (and the VERY least),that Tenenbaum could do (even before a Din Torah), is give EVERYONE 3 or 6 Matzohs for free. This is, what every NORMAL food establishment, would do. -Even before going to court.
3)Rabbi Osdoba suggests, that the Mehadrin should buy other Matzah for the Sedorim, and (try to)collect your extra expensens incurred, after Pesach. Well, what about the people who can’t afford it?! -They can’t even afford to pay ONCE for Matzah,how could they afford to pay for Matzah TWICE?!
-WE CAN’T WAIT TILL AFTER PESACH, TO BE (MAYBE) COMPENSATED!!!
SHOLOM AL YISROEL
Everyone enjoy whichever Matzah it is that you use for Pesach! Let’s have peace in this world! If it’s not the Rebbe’s Chassidim who are the ones to show what real Ahavas Yisroel is???
M>L
Mendel I agree with abc you wrote . Other hechshers are just as good. and the ch one needs alot of improvements, maybe this will be a wake up call.
WAKE UP YIDDEN
especially around here
M.L and yes I am a Lubavitcher but one who believes in all the correct ways of Hashem
disgusted
to Who-s APPROPRIATE to make our matzahs?
y do u have to be soo negative…its a mans hand its the man who gives out “taigelach” were do u want him to stand on the ceiling??? and jusat fyi the woman there are all very tznius and there is a big space in between him and the woman but from the angle the picture is taken u cant see that cuz all you see is hands!! ur negativtly wont get u far in life trust me!! stop looking for the bad in ppl…mayb u should start focusing on the bad in urself!!
ashamed that these are my ppl
to webby..i realy think this forum should end before someone realy gets serisouly hurt!! its bad enough how much it already effected the ppl involved this is a opening for ppl to sin and talk loshen hara and say sick things bout others..if u see its going to far i think its ur responisibility to put and end to it!!
haloche
Can someone that knows shulchon oruch explain the issue here? not to eat for the kezaysiim matzo made by a goy is an hiddur a chumra or an yissur? I was under the impression that according to the Alter Rebbe this is a lechatchile requirement and a bedieved case where muter is if someone is sick or old and has no strenght then a goy can do it. Another question, is there anyone that holds that it will be a shaylo on the KASHRUS if a goy did it? Isn’t this just an issue of eating the matzes mitzvo made by a yehudi (not necessarely a frum jew) a ben daas (that will be able to do it leshem mitzvo because he himself mechuyev in the mitzvo)?
Please advise!
Yossi
OBVIOUSLY, MANY OF YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW TO READ LETTERS FROM RABBONIM. GRANTED, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE TO SEE R’ OSDOBA SAY THAT THE RUSSIAN LADY WAS JEWISH. HOWEVER, ON THE ISSUE OF WHO IS JEWISH AND WHO ISN’T, IS NOT A MATTER OF PUBLIC DISCLOSURE. HENCE THE LANGUAGE, “ACCORDING TO DIN THE MATZA IS KOSHER.”
THAT SAID, THERE WAS INVESTIGATION, AND SHE IS JEWISH. HOWEVER, WHENEVER ONE HAS A DOUBT ON A MITZVAH, EVEN IF IT IS ALL KOSHER, TO BE MEHUDAR, YOU DO IT AGAIN, (LIKE IF YOU THINK YOUR TEFELIN IS POSEL YOU PUT ON ANOTHER PAIR.) IN OUR CASE, YOU GO OUT AND BUY OTHER MATZAH EVEN THOUGH THE GOYAH IS JEWISH.
SINCE R’OSDABA IS NOT REQUIRING THE BAKERY TO GIVE ADDITIONAL MATZA, YOU SHOULD ALL REALIZE THAT THE GOYAH IS JEWISH!!!
SO BUY YOURSELF NEW MATZAH IN THE SPIRIT OF BEING MEHUDAR….I WILL BE ENJOYING THE MATZAH OF RABBI TENNEBAUM, A TRUE EMESDIKA CHASSID AND LIGHT IN THIS BITTER EXILE YOU ALL MAKE DARKER….
Empire Ave dweller
Can someone please explain something I’ve ALWAYS wondered. All the women rolling the dough are plainly ignorant frei Russian women. Besides the obvious questions surrounding our reliance on their care (or lack of)in avoiding to bring chametz into the bakery via their hands or clothing, is it possible they can have “le shem mitzvos matza” truly in mind.
No.
They obviously don’t have a clue what it means if they did not get a Kosher Jewish education. Even most frum women b’chlal don’t know or understand to do something ‘leshem etc”.
So what business do they have performing this mitzva on behalf of frum yidden?
Oh – there’s the answer – Business. Period.
LISTEN UP ALL OF YOU
ATT ANNOYED AT ALL THE DISRESPECT:
YOU ARE ACTING JUST LIKE THOSE PYSYCHO MISHICHISTS WHO THINK WAVING FLAGS OR WEARING PINS WILL BRING MOSHIACH. YOU TALK ABOUT SHUTING BIG FAT MOUTHS TO BRING MOSHIACH WHILE AT THE SAME TIME A STREAM OF CURSES ARE COMING OUT OF YOUR OWN BIG FAT MOUTH.
pinye
to Menachem Mendel,
you are totally mistaken, The Rov is not a Rebbe appointed Rov, WE the residents of crown heights alected him to this post. The Rebbe is not at fault for this mess. Typical of your type, Bashuldiken dem Rebben. About time that those responsible for dragging the name and reputation ofLubavitch be taken to task. Enough is enough. The Vaad Hakashrus must go. They tried, they failed. Bring in fresh blood. Thid id not about corruption, this is not about frumkiet, this is about ineptitude. They can’t cut the mustard.
Resident
Yitzchak Tenenbaum is a fine upstanding yungerman who is a yerei shomayim merabim. The responsible party in this scandal is the vaad Hakashrus. Their reprehensible acts are finally catching up with them. Tenenbaum is a peripheral victim in this issue. All that concerns them is to adequately cover up their misdeeds. They must be removed from the Badatz forthwith.
to source:
to source:
the story is NOT like that!
This is what happened:
Two ladies got into a fight.
So one of them let out the secret:
She told the Mashgiach the truth about the other lady – that the other lady is not Jewish.
This is amaizing!
Look at the upside to this whole incident:
It’s so much fun reading all these comments!
All the back-and-forths.
Pheww! That made my day!
Thanx guys!
menachem
What Rabbi Osdoba meant by dinei momonus:since this is a matter which is the fault of the hechsher,(ma she’ein kain if it was a MAIZID from the bakery) which should have checked out the worker, and anyway the bakery isn’t mechuyav to give free matzos to anyone, the only question is if the vaad hakashrus has to pay to 1.the customers and 2.to the bakery for not checking this out before even though the bakery pays them to do this, so this can better be dealt with after pesach.
MJ
How can people compare this to the Monsey meat scandal? There, someone was intentionally selling treif meat. Here, a woman was presumed to be Jewish when she was hired.
It’s a shame since the Tenenbaums are honest, upstanding people. When our younger child came along, they took our older one to school, and when our baby accidentally scalded himself on Shabbos, Mrs. Tenenbaum came along in the ambulance without even taking time to change out of her robe.
This can in no way compare to the numerous stories of sales of chometz, sales of shmitta lands, and Shabbos use involving non-Jews who turned out to halachically Jewish. One should also recall the story about the Ohev Yisrael who wound up using non-mehudar matzos (due to an accident) without making a commotion.
o.n.
The real problem is that Lubavithcher think that only lubavitch hechsher is kosher and all else is treif. THat is an attitude that is against halacha and ahavas yisrael.
I have guests that come to my house and ask if it is CHK- you are not allowed to do that halachikly. Besides, to tell you the truth, i don’t trust CHK but my guests only eat it so i don’t know what to do.
But, at the end of the day- we cannot be such EXCLUSIVEISTS bc then this type of stuff happens in response- pple are able to take advantage.
Rabbi Helller said....
Between many points, that having the best Matzos is a Hiddur and an important one too, very very important, but not to destroy somebody’s income and business and be Shofech Domim, when it was an accident, is also a Hiddur and a Mitzvah and an Issur.
THIS IS FROM ME NOT RABBI HELLER: Do we care what Hashem wants or that we want to feel holy. We spend so much on a pound of Matza and if we lose it or the like we say it’s from Hashem and we will give twice as mush this year for the Mitzvah it’s worth it, so what is happening now. Our EGO that we feel somebody is stepping on us. HASHEM is doing this just like everything else. We have to believe in Him always not just when it feels good. Kosher and Freilichin Pesach!
Kosher
The woman was found to be Jewish by a shliach in russia who tracked down the mother
Itzhak Schier
I have heard from a reliable source (no, not in the mikveh) that there is some good news on the way regarding this situation. Would you be so kind as to confirm what I heard (my source said that you were informed as well) and to print the final chapter of this story so that we know what is really going on?
M Shagalow
the only comment that everyone is missing ?
that hatefull website that represent the beis rafiach
and being supported by Rabbi tennenbaums brother in law came out to hurt the ch bais din and hurt his own sister.
just remember that terorists are hurting even their supporters
and yes she was a jewish lady who lost her job.
fair and balanced
To Cht
What I ment was they should exchange only 2 pounds of old for 2 poounds of new (1 box only) that comes out to aprox 5,000 pounds for 2500 families if everyone did the exhchange
2 weeks is enough time. 500 pounds per day is possible
P.S. if she is jewish then why put out the letter and say so?????????????????
anonymous
Can everyone please be careful with how they speak about the rabonim. We still have to have derech eretz no matter what happens. We can find the good in eveything. That’s how Moshiach will come.
shame on us
A few comments about the “modah chashuvah” IMHO
1) Its nice they are pointing the finger on “the Matzo bakery that belongs to R’ Y Tannenbaum” not “the matzo bakery under our hashgacha” (as if it’s HIS fault – he is a Jew that pays tens of thousands of dollars a year so they should write “tachas hashgochoseinu”
2) They write “mitzad hadin thay are Kosher” no one thought otherwise – the question is not if they are kosher or not, the question is “is this Matzo l’shaim mitzvah”
3) About “dennei mamenos” that “they” will “judge” after yom tov – they will judge?! They should be judged! The FIRST ONE responsible is the Rav Hamachshir” if the owner did not comply with something that the rav hamachshir said then take off your hashgacha.
Please note they are Rabbis of the Crown Heights Jewish Community – not leaders of or represent the Chabad Lubavitch Worldwide Movement
call for calm
all we need is law and order what we need to do is sit down see if the lady is jewish and be truthful about it because if people like all the gossipers who have aleady changed the story a hundreds tims make things worse wich they have already been you will get nowhere just be calm and stop going crazy and make things worse let the rabbis do there job to see the problem they can not do it if you all going app
call for calm
all we need is law and order what we need to do is sit down see if the lady is jewish and be truthful about it because if people like all the gossipers who have already changed the story a hundreds times make things worse wich they have already been you will get nowhere just be calm and stop going crazy and make things worse let the rabbis do there job to see the problem they can not do it if you all going app
She is Jewish
The Rabbonim sent the Shliach in Russia to the house of the ladies Mother to interview her and she said she is Jewish.
TO REPEAT: SHE IS A JEW
TO REPEAT
THE WOMAN SUSPECTED OF HER INHERENT IDENTIFY HAS BEEN FOUND TO BE A JEW.
HER MOTHER WAS LOCATED, AND FOUND TO BE A JEW. THE MOTHERS MOTHER IS DECESED.
SORRY REB LABKOVSKY, BUT SHE WAS A YID.
NO CONCERNES ABOUT THE SEDER, NO MEKACH TAUS AND NO COMPENSATION – YOUR MATZOS WERE MADE BY ELDERLY JEWISH WOMAN.
BY THE WAY, THERE ARE MANY OTHER MATZA BAKERYS IN BROOKLYN WHO EMPLOY ELDERLY RUSSIAN JEWISH WOMAN, WHICH ARE HIRED EXCLUSIVELY BY THE MATZO BAKERIES AND NOT BY THEIR GOVERNING HASHGACHA AGENCEIS.
THE MATZOS ARE NOT ONLY KASHER MITZAD HADIN, THEY ARE FIT FOR THE SEDER PLATE AND BITACHLIS HAHIDUR.
SO CUT THE SHTICK.
Wanda Ring
So why does Rabbi Osdoba say “those who want to be Mehader for the night of the Sader should get other Matzos”?
If she was checked out and found to be Jewish, and many other rolers not even investigated, her matzos are BETTER than the usual ones, if anything. Do we know something that Osdoba doesn’t?
Mendy Hecht
Something to think about:
I heard this morning in shul that, thanks to this scandal, if it is one, Mr. Tennenbaum is sitting on 10,000 pounds of matzah that no one wants to buy.
I hope it’s not true, but if it is…
Is that what we’re trying to do here? Put a Jew out of business?
Snatch food from his children’s mouths?
The matzah is kosher. Period.
Goyishe Yid
I wrote earlier how when we are so concerned about the kavones of a Goy we could also be concerned about the Kavoneh of a Yid, who does not have a torah education, or worse, a frum Yid who behaves in a manner heipech haShulchan Aruch. What about by these Yidden, could non G-d fearing Yidden be relied upon for the Mitzvah of baking Matzos? or checking eggs, separating chalah, etc. and there are plenty of Yidden of all levels who play all different roles in kosher food preparation, what is required of a Yid for Lishmah to be Lishmah?
Although it may have sounded as if this is always the case, I want to clarify that this is only a problem in SOME cases, and in not always the the case. In fact, although many matzo bakeries employ Yidden who are not frum, it is imperative to realizes that in the case of the matzos, the bakery here is run by top of the line Chasidim who are Rabbonim and Mashpeim in themselves, and should be highly regarded. I am truly sorry if I came across otherwise.
In any case the elderly woman was found to be a Yid, so the matzos are not only Bitachlis Hahidur but it are perfect for the Seder and there was nothing wrong all along!
In fact of the family that runs the bakery is one of our greatest Magidei Shiurim in Yeshivah, and as Bochrim we loved him – who is well known for his Bikeeyus in Shas – you can try him – or even his brothers – quote him a line from Gemorah anywhere, and he will instantly tell you the exact Daff and exact line!!! He is a match for Harav Hirshprung A”H!!!!!!
Repeater
To Mr Wanda Ring,
Good question – then why was it not issued in the psak – but scroll up approximately 20 comments, and if you take a look ‘Yossi’ will read you the letter again
Wanda Ring
‘Yossi’ is wrong.
Who-s APPROPRIATE to make our matzahs?
B“H
Dear ”DISGUSTED,“
Out of all the letters appearing before mine, you single out my letter, or, as you put it, ME (who you do not even know!) as being ”…soo negative…“???
And THEN you extrapolate (look it up!) to judge my entire attitude as a person, and how my future will proceed?
(to quote you again, ”…ur negativtly wont get u far in life trust me!! stop looking for the bad in ppl…mayb u should start focusing on the bad in urself!!)
All I did was look at a photo, notice a curious detail, and ask some VALID questions. (And it still looks to ME like that exposed elbow is attached to an arm using a rolling pin, NOT a man’s arm handing out dough, unless the taiglach are perfectly cylindrical and the same dimensions as the depicted rolling pins!)
Oh, and also, I did comment that we MIGHT benefit by looking into how Williamsburgh bakes matzos.
“DISGUSTED,” I am still baffled by why you chose to spew your venom at ME! Apparently, I inadvertently hit a nerve. Please accept my apologies.
[PS — Have you ever heard of Spell-Check?]