In the ultra-orthodox community, conformity is a way of life.
That is why a series of startling edicts from their leading rabbis are hardly controversial at all.
Orthodox Rabbis Issue Gag Order
In the ultra-orthodox community, conformity is a way of life.
That is why a series of startling edicts from their leading rabbis are hardly controversial at all.
“Whatever the rabbis say is my position,” one man on the street told us.
Determined to maintain good relations with the NYPD, rabbis have issued what critics say amounts to a gag order on the three thousand families who live here.
According to their edicts, any public criticism of the NYPD, including community complaints, must be approved in advance.
Websites must have permission to publish criticism.
Residents must not bring potentially incriminating information about other residents to the media.
The rabbis insist permission must come from the Crown Heights Jewish Community Council, the local liaison with the NYPD.
Most people told us that they support the rabbis, but there are those who say they’ve gone way too far.
tipshim
g-d bless you people for bringing even this to the press. its about time somebody takes a stand in this community. every time a cop writes a ticket lets give him an award for doing his job. i love you crown heights info for telling it the way it is. may you continue telling the truth amen ve amen
KGB
crown hieights info should be bound to VVa Rabbonim and not to the CH BD.
also activities from CHJCC has to be known by everyone
this look like the KGB
RESIDENT OF CROWN HEIGHTS
i think this order is a bunch of stupidity i once asked the community for some help on a matter with the police and they pretty much told me to get lost so if i have a problem with the police department you better believe i will be going straight to the media NO RABBI CAN TELL ME NOT TO
elisha
i appreciate this website very much for allowing me to express my complete opinion
i find that very important to me
Ha ha!!
The second lady who spoke on this clip – who just violated a Psak from the Bais Din of Crown Heights – her husband is actually AN EMPLOYEE of this very Bais Din!! How funny!
Community member
Thank you Mr. Federman for speaking out on this issue. The result of such gag orders and edicts are the source of an untold number of problems. How many children (and there parents!) who were sextually abused are afraid to speak out and bring the perpetrator to justice b/c of this attitude? The result are children going off the derech in droves and the community harboring these offenders. Why? Not to air our dirty laundry? The eitze is… continue killing children!!??
If Rabbonim want the authority they deserve, they should deal w/ issues and not cover for their friends children etc. If you want justice, unfortunately, one must take things in their own hands!!
Besuros tovos. V’nizke l’geula amitis u’shleima.
that-s shaboos!!!!!!!
if u notice – the clip was taken Friday (yesterday); and in the end – is is shaboos (when they come to 770)!!!!!!!!!!!
Milhouse
#3, are you frum? Do you think no rabbi can tell you to not to drive on shabbos or eat treif? Do you think no rabbi can tell you whether you can be with your wife? How is it that they have the authority to tell you what to do in those things, and not in this? Surely before you take a chance on breaking halacha you should ask a shayla, just as you do with anything else.
b2b
haha mrs B u da best – said it like it is .
voluntary
interesting comment at 1:44 in the vid
the facts
yea we don’t have the facts but CJCC will magically get them and tell your wrong don’t file a complaint
Boruch
I don’t get it. Is it a gag ORDER or a non binding suggestion?
I’m 100% against messira just like halacha states (though the CHJCC seem to be champions of messira!), but outing bad [goyishe] cops has nothing to do with halacha. The beis din has no authority to bully the community in any matter non related to halocho. The ‘Rabbonim’ then wonder why they get less respect than janitors. They must earn respect.
Communism - a Crown Heights institution
Mrs. L (2nd woman on the tape)speaks for many community members. Instead of taking the police to task for their inaction and overreaction(the boys on the sidewalk who were ticketed),the Community Council panders to them, placates them, and makes a fool of itself with this communist style edict which everyone will ignore.
dear millhouse
Mr Millhouse: please get off the internet. A rabbi said you should.
Baaaaa Moooooo
“In the ultra-orthodox community, conformity is a way of life.
How sadly true! When asked by the media for an opinion they expect us to say Baaaaa or Mooooooo !
Effective
In this country it is common knowledge that many times situations are mishandled and the only way to get them corrected is by going to the media. Major news stations have departments dedicated to this. If it will be at Eli Cohen’s discretion when we can and can’t go to the media and file complaints then this community will really be in trouble.
CHILUL LUBAVITCH
WHAt A CHILUL LUBAVITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To Milhouse
Your logic is a little funky… It is not the rabbi that makes it osser for you to drive on shabbos, to eat treif, or be with your wife, it is the torah that decides those things. A rov will simply apply your situation to the halachic guidelines. Now i am not a talmid chacham, but i don’t know what halacha is being applied to say that a person can not give his opinion on what is happening in Crown Heights.
shaya
i would like to publicly criticize the NYPD, the “VAAD HAKOL” and the CH BETH DIN. they are all wrong and deserve it
Better Dead than COL-Live
I will be boycotting a certain LIVE site from now on. I am sick not only of their ma yoffis pandering, but also of their coverage of all kinds of people who are not up to Lubavitch standards but who give a few cents and therefore are honored with coverage on that site.
Chaim
as far as I can tell, from reading the letter posted here online, the ban is for anyone to complain/talk/report in the NAME of the community. It said nothing about reporting or complaining about PRIVATE isues. So whats teh big deal? If you have a problem with the police, or was abused (like #6 said) report away!! Who cares! Just don’t talk to the cops as THE COMMUNITY REPRESENTATIVE! Thats all the letter said.
The same way if you have an issue with any government or cerdit card; the first thing they do is ask you to prove WHO you are, so that NOO ONE else can talk in your name. Thats the same thing here. Talk or report for yourself, not as a community rep.
shloime freundlich
Freedom of speech is the freedom to speak freely without censorship or limitation,we live in a Democracy not a Theocracy or Police state it is is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution The right to freedom of speech is recognized as a human right under Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and recognized in international human rights law in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
?!?
Interesting how the first woman says that she agrees with the edict, but then she too is violating their ruling not to speak to the media!!!!!!!!!!!
gagging the victim
Notice how the new head of the Council is a criminal defense lawyer, i.e., he DEFENDS CRIMINALS, instead of victims…
Milhouse
#18, as you say, you are not a talmid chochom. If a rov tells you something is treif, will you just ignore him and eat it, without doing your own investigation? Of course not. If he tells you there’s a problem with your tefillin, will you ignore him? Of course not. So if he tells you there’s a problem with what you’re saying, you have to treat it with the same seriousness. Maybe he’s right and maybe he’s wrong, but you CANNOT start with the attitude of “who is he to tell me what to do?”. He is a rov, YOUR rov, giving you legal advice that is in his area of competence and not in yours. If you don’t understand what the potential problem might be, ask him. If you think he’s mistaken, research the question yourself, and/or ask other rabbonim, and then decide what to do. But you can’t just ignore his psak din as if it were irrelevant.
Milhouse
#22, “shloime freundlich”, what has any of that got to do with the halacha? Since when did the United States Constitution, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, or the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights replace the Shulchan Aruch?
unfortunate
there goes ur freedom of speech
Milhouse is Gevaldik
Mollhouse,I love your comments (even when I dont agree with you), you are a breath of fresh air amongst all these silly commentators. You lift up the level of the conversation – Keep it up. Your fan
ww2
the GAG just made me even more mad. now i see the truth. this is prussure from the police head what ever his name is. and the CHJCC are stupids anough to fallow the stupidity. the rabonim most probebly where mis lead and now feel just as stupid. it made more anger. WW2 all over. hay there not our frainds. they the police are out for them selfs. to make them selfs look like there doing a good job. comeon lets face it.
crazy pepole
look at history and make up your own mind.
Ariyeh Leib Segall
Frustration over the lack of leadership results in people taking the situation in to their own hands…
CHJCC / Rabbonim,etc.. unfortunately have a lack of people and oratory skills, and the community suffers as a result…!!
what should have been said was that having the official community voice behind your complaints ‘might’ have better results..But their past behavior shows that they fail time and gain to express our displeasure at what is going on (The animals seem to be running the farm !!!)and producing the at least satisfactory results…!!!
As one that can be counted in this dissatified group…
Action is the main deed !!!
HaMaasaeh Ho HaIkkur !!!!!
Initial Premise Is False
“In the ultra-orthodox community, conformity is a way of life”
Your initial premise is false!
Studies from the world of sociology have shown that Crown Heights Beis Rivkah girls are more individuated (in their social development) than public school girls of the same age!
These same Frum teens are also more mature, charitable, and altruistic than their secular co-aged kids.
In fact, I’d assert — having been there myself — that:
In the secular world, conformity is a way of life.
It’s just that the folks in the secular world fantasize that they are big non-conformists — yeah, all slavishly following the same trends dictated by the fashion designers (even those with bodies not flattered by these same styles!), and eating the same trendy foods, taking on the same trendy sports, and watching the same movies, TV, and other media. But because they tell the world that they are so NOT conformist, that’s their made-up reality.
One day, the Emperor’s look will be seen by the world for what it truly is: A Narishkeit.
To Milhouse (#18)
Your argument has a flaw. When a rov, or anyone for that matter, tells you that a food you are eating is treif, of course you stop eating and investigate. The reason is b/c the Torah has told us what is kosher and what is not; therefore, it is a rov’s place to say kosher/treif.
In this scenario, what is the rov’s basis for getting involved? Is there a shaila in halocha that needs to be decided? Did the CHJCC bring someone to a din torah that the rabbonim paskined on? A rov has the responsibility to take halocha and apply it to the known facts at hand. Which din in shulchan orach is he applying in this case? That is what i meant when i wrote that i am not a talmid chacham and perhaps there is a din that I am unaware of, and there are many. If you know of one, please post it.
The way i see it, this is political issue between the CHJCC and individuals in the community. A decision to publicly criticize the CHJCC and their interactions with NYPD is one i would ask my Mashpia, not my rov.
It is my personal opinion that this whole CHJCC/NYPD issue is not something that the Beis Din should get involved in. By getting involved they are lowering themselves into the political games of the community and causing there to be a lack of respect for their office.
awacs
#21:
“as far as I can tell, from reading the letter posted here online, the ban is for anyone to complain/talk/report in the NAME of the community. It said nothing about reporting or complaining about PRIVATE isues.”
If you read the “P’sak” (is that what it is?) you don’t get that impression. There are five edicts; #1, #2 and #4 have no limitation as you suggested. #3 does. #5 is iffy.
a 13 year old point of view
oh! so now the police are allowed to do watever they want because we cant report on them! i see. also they want to push all the dirt under the carpet so no one will find out
makes a TON (sarcastic)of scence
Milhouse
#33, ONE issue is mesirah. The “edict” forbids, among other things, making things public that could get another yid in trouble. That is certainly a serious issur, and it’s a rov’s place to tell you not to do it. But beyond that, EVERYTHING you do is subject to halacha. Halacha is not restricted to a small area of life; it covers everything you do from Modeh Ani until Hamapil and beyond. So when a rov tells you that something is assur, you have to take it seriously. You may ask him for his sources, you may research it yourself, you may ask other rabbonim for their opinions, and ultimately you may decide he was wrong; but you have NO RIGHT to simply dismiss it as “not a rov’s business”.
awacs
‘but you have NO RIGHT to simply dismiss it as “not a rov’s business”.’
Even if the Rabonnim, say, put out a paper saying that we must go to NY Yankees games? Ain l’dvar sof?
Milhouse
#37 Halacha binds us at every moment. If your rov paskens that you have to go to the game, then you have to take that seriously. If you think he’s mistaken, then it’s up to you to find out why. You can start by asking him whether he really said it, and if so why, and follow up from there. Once he’s given you mekoros, you can research them, consult with other rabbonim, etc. But to simply dismiss his psak din as if you were not subject to it?! What room is there for such behaviour by someone who aspires to be called a shomer mitzvos?