Scandal as Kapporos Chickens Slaughtered by Arabs
A scandal is roiling the Chabad community in southern Israel after it was discovered today, mere hours after Kapporos ended, that the organizers sold the chickens to an Arab meat-processing plant to be slaughtered and sold as Halal poultry.
The Lubavitch communities of Rechovot, Kiryat Gat and Nachlat Har Chabad (Kiryat Malachi) in southern Israel were affected by this incident. They were led to believe by the organizers that the chickens were being taken to a kosher slaughtering plant, and are now fuming that they were misled.
Rabbi Yitzchok Yehuda Yeruslavsky, the Rov of Nachlas Har Chabad, put out a public letter castigating the organizers of the Kapporos for cheating the community, and instructing those who participated in the Kapporos to do so again with money to avoid any “Sofek.”
Community leaders have said that they will bring a formal complaint to local police for fraud as soon as Yom Kippur is over.
ahavasyisroel
very sad. At the very least I hope all the meat goes to non Jewish poor
Not surprised
Kapores in Israel is a huge problem. We don’t go to Chabad any more… the time frame for our community was a pathetic 30 minutes for about 500 families. And a couple of years ago, chickens were recycled.
Chickens were recycled?
So the first group did kapores on live chickens and the second group on slaughtered chickens?
Milhouse
No, the birds were not shechted till later, so the second group did on the same still-alive chickens. Which is not the worst thing in the world; many people do use one chicken for more than one person, so this is the same thing. Lechatchila it’s not advisable. But in this case the birds were never shechted at all, so there was no kaparah for any of the people.
Dog
Rabbi yeruslavsky needs at least five new people to work with him he is the head of Chabad in Israel he fisicaly can’t control the situation Chabad in Israel is 30 times bigger then Crown heights
We use money
It’s been quite a number of years that we have used money, having seen what goes on at these kapores places. Admittedly, selling to arabs is another low point.
The kangeroo
Why is it wrong to sell kapore chickens to arabs?
Milhouse
There’s nothing wrong with selling them to arabs after a proper shechita. What happens to the chicken after shechita makes no difference. The problem here is that they were sold live, so they were not shechted.
The kaparah is not saying the pesukim or orbiting the chicken around your head, it’s the shechita, so if it was not shechted then the whole thing is worthless.
let's be careful not harmful
i’m about to agree with kangeroo, but may be i don’t know smth – please educate me. Is not it the money received from Arabs go to Jewish Tzdikoh?
Milhouse
Tzedakah has nothing to do with kaparos. Don’t mix up two very different things. after kaparos, it’s customary to do a mitzvah with the chicken, by giving it or its value to the poor, but this has nothing to do with the kaparah. If you keep the chicken and don’t give any tzedakah your kaparah was perfectly valid, while if you give tzedakah and don’t do kaparos you have a nice mitzvah but no kaparah. That’s why doing it with money makes no sense and has no source, it’s just a modern invention.
(Of course if you have no other choice it’s better than doing nothing, so in this case R Yeruslavsky said to do it, but it’s very bediovad.)
talking sense
This happened this year in Los Angeles also at the kapparos arranged on Beverly in LA
let's be careful not harmful
Thanks Milhouse !!!
Milhouse: “That’s why doing it with money makes no sense and has no source, it’s just a modern invention.” – I feel same way. But then, when U say by Kaporos – this Tarnegol[es] will go to death – so it did, just in a form of [not-eatable by us] Halal “shechita”. Yes U missed kisuj dam bOfar, but is not it otherwise valid kaporah?
Milhouse
No, it’s not a valid kapora because it has to be a kosher shechita. If it becomes a neveila you’re not yotsei, and have to do it again.
let's be careful not harmful
btw Milhouse doing it on fish makes sense? Last year I had to do it on fish – there was no public chicken Kaporos in my state. And so I went to Korean food market and asked for live talapia “and please don’t kill it”. Fish ended up duying after few hrs. But per your “shechita” rule, it’s nothing … Please educate me.
Milhouse
The posuk says: הצאן ובקר ישחט להם ומצא להם, אם את כל דגי הים ייאסף להם ומצא להם. From this posuk we learn that gathering fish is their shechita.
in the name of a rav
Clarification:
Halachicly, when one chicken is used for more than one person, they do it at the same time! Once it was done, no one else may do on that chicken!
Don't understand
When the first person to shlog with the chicken saw that there was no shchita, the whole operation should have stopped. In three different venues Anash didn’t figure out that the main part of the minhog is missing??? Where were the Rabbonim and Mashpiim when this was happening?
Milhouse
In many places it’s not practical to have a shochet on location, so they do the kaporos and then send all the chickens to the shlachthoiz. It’s not ideal, but sometimes there’s no real alternative.
This year I wasn’t even able to do kaporos on Erev Yom Kippur; it simply wasn’t available where I am, so I had to do it a few days earlier, and trust that my chicken would make it to a shochet. I was thankful for even that opportunity, because earlier I’d been told chickens wouldn’t be available at all, and I’d have to use a fish.
The kangeroo
i tought that they sold it after shehita because i understood that they sold it as hallah meat because it was shehtet.Otherwise the people who did are plain thieves
Milhouse
“the organizers sold the chickens to an Arab meat-processing plant to be slaughtered and sold as Halal poultry.”
let's be careful not harmful
Milhouse, will U clarify?
Milhouse
The same Torah that tells us the shechita of mammals and birds is by cutting their necks in a specified manner, also tells us that the “shechita” of fish is simply gathering them out of the water.
Lealeh
Just as we now unfortunately have no animal Karbonos that are Diyuraisa in Torah Law, There should be no chicken Kaparot, until Moshiach comes. Money to Tzedakah instead
Milhouse
You are wrong. Where do you get off making such pronouncements? On the contrary, it’s precisely because we lack korbonos that we have only this alternative. I imagine that when the Beis Hamikdosh is rebuilt and we can bring korbonos there will be no more kaporos, because we will have the real thing and won’t have to resort to such inferior substitutes.
To #8
Yes there is an issue the chicken is supposed 2 be Shechted & given to needy poor Jewish families not to a bunch of Arabs so yes there is a big issue after it is Shechted giving it to a bunch of Arab families, where do u get off saying what happens to the chicken after Shchita makes no difference, you’re totally incorrect the whole point of the Mitzvah of Kaporos is so needy Jewish families have food for meal before the fast by the Sudas Hamafsekes, after the fast or for Sukkos, but yes it’s supposed to go to Jewish Yiddisheh families not a bunch of Arab Goyim, where do u get off saying after the Shchita it does matter where the chicken goes, u are totally off on this point & yes Rabbi Yeruslavsky needs ppl to work for him he can’t do this all by himself, he needs secretaries & a full office of ppl, doing it by himself is nuts
Milhouse
the whole point of the Mitzvah of Kaporos is so needy Jewish families have food
You are wrong. That is not the point at all. Kaporos has nothing to do with tzedokoh at all, and there is no need to give the chicken or its value to the poor.
There is indeed a completely separate minhog, that since you now have a chicken on your hands and there are poor people who need it, you should give it to them, or better still you should give them its value in money. There are many minhogim on Erev Yom Kippur, and this is one of them, but it is not related in any way to the minhog of kaporos, except that that’s how you got the chicken in the first place.
I suggest that in future, before contradicting someone else you open a sefer and educate yourself, so you will know what you’re talking about.
To #11
I heard the opposite that in L.A. there was a Shochet or maybe 2 when Kaporos was going on, it was @ a Chicken farm on Temple & Beverly, where did u get your info from please ? Are u saying that the chickens in Los Angeles weren’t Shechted ? Where did u hear this please ? The reason they stopped doing it @ Yeshivah was bec of the Goyim, they’ve been doing it by Yeshivah for over 30 + years, idk when they stopped doing it @ Yeshivah, does anyone have any info please who was there ?
To#27
I was at this location in L.A. each person hands their chicken to the shochet & they are schechted right then and there. I don’t know what happens afterward, but they were not schechted by Muslims.
let's be careful not harmful
Milhouse – thank U