Tens of Thousands Protest IDF Draft in Manhattan
Ten of thousands of Jews from all walks of life, gathered in lower Manhattan for prayer rally in protest of the Israeli Governments proposed military draft of all its religious citizens.
Stretching over 10 city blocks in lower Manhattan’s Pearl and Water Streets, tens of thousands of men and women gathered for a prayer service protesting the proposed new law.
The protest followed another such protest which took place in Jerusalem, Israel in which an estimated 400,000 attended.
In New York the NYPD is estimating a conservative 35,000 attended, while local media are reporting and estimated 50,000.
Crown Heights Rabbonim, including Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba and Rabbi Shlomo Segal issued a Kol Koreh instructing locals to attend the protest.
Photos by Chaim Perl and others
question?
Why am I turned off from this. As chassidim, didn’t we serve in the Israeli Army during all of the wars? Typically, these rallys make sense, but this just seems out of what the Rebbe would want. Someone with more knowledge please send us in the direction of the Rebbe’s writtings on this topic so that we me see it first hand..
Milhouse
How has a generation of chassidim grown up that has no idea what the Rebbe held, and instead of learning his sichos and igros, or asking older chassidim, prefers to imagine for itself that the Rebbe would agree with whatever it wants. This “rebbe” that lives in people’s minds bears no resemblance to the actual Rebbe whom we saw and heard.
No, as chassidim we did not serve in the Israeli army, certainly not when we were yeshivah bochurim devoted to full-time learning. The Rebbe said that a bochur who abandons the gemoroh to serve in the army is just like a soldier who abandons his post to do something else. The Rebbe would have supported this rally 100%.
Kop Mentch
Milhouse, כי לא מחשבתי מחשבותיכם
(ישעיה נה ח), don’t pretend you know what the Rebbe would have done, because then you pretend you can replace him.,
Anonymous
I don’t understand !
How come Rabbi 0′ wrote a letter (not published until Friday) where he orders and commands that everyone should participate in the gathering, and he himself stayed in Crown Heights and did not participate there???
the doc
looks to me like a gathering of people who don’t support Israel. Is this the same group that participated in the anti internet fuss?
All I see is lots of snags with black hats. This is really going to further the rift between orthodox and secular Jews in Israel, and in America.
I listened to the Rebbe’s view, (it was recently posted), and the =Rebbe said unequivocally that we need both, learning and army, but the Rebbe didn’t quantify how many people need to sit in yeshiva.
It just an excuse not to join the army. If the yeshivas selected the best bochurim, who learn and teach and help klal yisroel by enhancing yiddishkeit across Israel then they would have an argument. But sitting in yeshiva, while you neighbour is putting his life and limb on the line, may not be right.
I always that michemet mitzvah is an obligation. The Israeli army at all times is in a Milchemet Mitzvah.
I’m confused.
Imagine if he entire country would be drum and charred, who then would serve and protect.
Just my own thoughts
Milhouse
Don’t forget that Lubavitch is anti-zionist. We do not support Israel. We support the IDF just as we do any army that protects a country with a large Jewish population. We support the NYFD too, but we don’t support bnei torah joining it. There is no maximum number that should be learning. Every person who is capable of full-time learning, should be doing so. If the whole country was frum then some proportion would be unsuited for learning, e.g. for lack of zitzfleish, and would join the army. But nobody who wants to learn should be forced not to.
Chazal tell us that when Moshe Rabbenu sent 12,000 men to war, he had another 12,000 learn Torah to protect them. So if you want to know how many learners we need, the answer is as many as we have soldiers.
I agree
The Rebbe said “Likewise, the one who was assigned to a Yeshiva, to sit and study Torah day and night…” [to say that if he stops learning to go fight he’s a deserter]. But if someone isn’t really learning “yomam v’laila”, and not all bochurim are cut out to do that, then why shouldn’t they go to the army?
CHABAD=ANTI ISRAEL
Chabad makes as if they are pro Israel just to ballei batim however we actually hold same as the satmar however we don’t proclaim this in public and we DO pray for out brothers in Israel and any ware els they might be in danger
Citizen Berel
No Chabad is not anti-Israel. Grotesque formulation. Israel pre-dates the state of Israel. Chabad is more pro-Israel then Ben-Gurion.
Oy
What a chilul Hashem!
Milhouse
You are a chilul haShem. How dare you claim that what every single Torah leader of any consequence supports is a “chilul haShem”, as if they don’t know 1000 times better than you what Hashem wants.
pathetic
waste of time
Reb pinye Korf a tzadik
Kiddush Hashem
serve
This is nuts. We all need to serve. It’s even a mitzvah to break Shabbos to defend ourselves.
Support Israel, not protest against it.
Milhouse
The army does not protect anyone; the Torah does. Without the yeshivos learning Torah the army can do nothing. אם ה׳ לא ישמר עיר שוא שקד שומר. Those who are in the army need to break shabbos if (and only if) it’s necessary to save lives. Those who are in yeshivah don’t belong in the army.
Watch out. If they get their way and draft the yeshivah boys, next they’ll go after the religious girls. What will you say then? That the girls should also serve r”l?!
m
Support Israel Not THE ציונים, Who want to destroy Judaism!
Kop Mentch
אם ה׳ לא ישמר עיר שוא שקד שומר this possuk CLEARLY implies that there IS a need for a שומר to protect the city, but the שומר needs syatta d”shmaya.
It is silly and false to say as Milhouse,”The army does not protect anyone; the Torah does.”
That is not a Torah hashkafa. We DO need an army and ain somchin al ha’nes.
Where are the women?
Maybe we should start a protest for equal rights amongst women.
Milhouse
The women are in a separate section, of course. Where did you expect them to be? This is a frum gathering. And before you speak of equal rights, be aware that the same people who want to draft the yeshivah boys also want to end the exemption for religious girls r”l. That will make it impossible for any frum person to live in Eretz Yisroel.
Kop Mentch
Milhouse, “be aware that the same people who want to draft the yeshivah boys also want to end the exemption for religious girls r”l. That will make it impossible for any frum person to live in Eretz Yisroel.”
Unless they accept the opinions of Torah that at a time of war and sakana. women DO get drafted!
The Gemara in Sotah 44b says that everyone must go to war for a milchemes mitzvah – even a kallah from her chuppah.
Milhouse, Stop appealing to the emotions of the readers!
Anonymous
Maimonides and many other important Jewish sages did not depend on others to support them.
CHT
Doesn’t contradict to hawkish policies?
Milhouse
How so? What does one thing have to do with the other? “Hawkish policies” simply means the government should not deliberately endanger people’s lives. What has that got to do with drafting the very people who are protecting the country with their learning? Soldiers are necessary; so are firemen, doctors, and garbage men, but we don’t expect everyone to become one of these things. So why should everyone be a soldier? Learning Torah is a more important job.
@ Milhouse
Sounds like a typical old fashioned intellectual elitist attitude, nothing original or deep about it.
Feh!
I’m so glad I wasn’t part of this. Shame on every one of them.
Milhouse
How dare you. What a chutzpah you have to every significant Torah leader, including all the rabbonim of our community. How dare you say “feh” and shame those who obey the Torah? Who do you think you are to think that you are right and they are wrong? Which talmid chochom of any consequence was against this? Name him or admit that this was a kidush hashem.
Feh!
These Rebbes are ‘Tzadikim in peltz’ literally and figuratively. And for those who don’t know the Yiddish expression, ‘a Tzadik in peltz’ is a sanctimonious wrapped in fur saying, ‘I don’t know why the poor are complaining it’s cold out there.’
Unity
It’s amazing how the only time you can get unity amongst Jews is when they are showing the world their disunity with other Jews.
Levi Tal
Rules for drafting residents into the Israeli army are an Israeli matter: it is wrong to protest it in New York.
Also, a Jew living in the state of Israel should be proud to do his share in the physical protection of the state and its residents.
Milhouse
Wrong. It is a slap in the face to the Torah. It is the State of Israel saying that the Torah is not important, and the yeshivos must bow to it.
And the yeshivah boys are doing their share in the protection of the residents. (Nobody should be protecting the state. Zionism is kefirah, and Lubavitch is 100% anti-zionist. The Rebbe would never even mention the state; he would refer to it as חושך כפול ומכופל.)
Yukel
My parents and older friends fought in the Yom Kippur war and saw their friends die in front of their eyes, yet the government gave the Sinai away soon after, so they asked what did they fight for.
I had friends who lived in Gush KAtif, who fought in the army, who had the army symbols on their Torahs, yet they ask now what did they fight for, as they have no home and have been dispersed.
If the government wants to make a compromise, put all the chilonis in Yeshivas for a period. Putting on a army uniform wont change the job market, ask the many Haredim who have served, who have skills, Haredim will still not get hired.
Need Both; The Rebbe wants...
I understand that there is a saying in the American army, “If you don’t have people praying, those bullets don’t shoot.” If that’s true of a goyshe military, al achas v’kama, a Jewish one! So, you need people learning Torah, davening, etc., and those who do the on leg work.
Correct me if this is wrong, but if a yeshiva bochur demonstrates exceptional learning capability, my understanding is that he will be he exempt.
As far what the Rebbe would want, there is an Igros, where the Rebbe writes,”If the Rabbanan said it, it is as if I’m saying it.” Now, when it came to demonstrations (peaceful – not Kahane’s group) in front of the Russian Embassies for Soviet jewry, the Rebbe was against this because he knew the Russian mentality, and this would be counterproductive. But, it should be obvious that this is much different. What can go wrong with 50,000 people gathering for Tefilos?
galus
It’s amazing how lubavitchers are so uninformed of the Rebbe’s opinion on these matters. The Rebbe was not pro drafting yeshiva students.
Anonymous
This pushes the can further down the road, where is the mass protest for the thousands of Jews in tel aviv ,and ramat gan, rishon litziyon, who don’t even know the paragraphs in our Chumash the holy Torah we must educate not participate in protest.
why does chabad go to an asifa
that speakers talk about giving back the west back
a boosha
shame on those who went
Milhouse
What on earth are you talking about? There were not speakers at all, and certainly nobody spoke about giving anything away. (Not “back”; never say “give back”, it was never theirs in the first place.)
Kop Mentch
The kabolas ol malchus shomayim was led by The Satmar who said Shema.
Is that also Chabad’s kabolos ol malchus shamayim?!
He pronounced on Hashem “he” hoelokim, not the masculine “who”.
The very SAME rabbonim who openly held that “chabad is not part of klal yisroel” for the Internet Asifa, now NEEDED chabad to fill up the street. Where is CHabad’s Geon Yaakov – self respect and pride?!
learning torah
Video: “What The Lubavitcher Rebbe Said On Serving In The IDF”
http://goo.gl/xvXmZ7
Levi Tal
Dear Levi,
it’s an Israely issue – not a JEWISH issue???
every Jew has the obligation to voice his/her opinion when the name of Hashem=Halacha is violated
By the way
Where is this idea coming from that only bochurim in a certain age group are learning Torah? If army service is for a few years, all the younger bochurim and all the men in kollel and all the Rabbis teaching and all the men who are learning daily after work and even the bochurim in the army when they’re off duty will still be learning.
Milhouse
The yeshivah years are the only time when a person can really learn. Once someone is married he has to worry about supporting a family, and certainly once there are a few children he has to leave the seforim, and even when he does learn his mind is on his parnossoh and his family worries.
Bochurim in the army have no spare time. They are exhausted and have no time to learn.
Kop Mentch
“Bochurim in the army have no spare time. They are exhausted and have no time to learn.”
In contrast, Bochurim in yeshiva have PLENTY of spare time. They are often bored and have lots of time to kill.
THAT IS THE REAL PROBLEM!
This whole gezarah came because the yeshiva bochurim are NOT learning as they should. If they had been learning lishma without batallah, the Torah which protects Eretz Hakodesh would also protect the yeshiva bochurim from the draft!
Alas, because they don’t learn as they should, HKB”H allowed this gezairah.
to Milhouse
instead of wasting time online replying to everybodys comment, maybe do something productive with your life. everybody is entitled to their own opinion. you probally go through crownheights.info and look through every comment on every article.
# 37 Re Milhouse
l Agree Totally! It seems that Milhouse is a Legend in his own Mind! But lf He tries to argue with Moshiach He will be Rebuked, Pray for Milhouse he needs Salvation Quickly.
Go Milhouse!
Finally a sliver of hope that restoring some semblance of sanity may be possible in the comments section.
To number 37, it is precisely because everyone is entitled to their own opinion that Milhouse is able to comment on whatever he deems necessary. Open dialogue and exchange of ideas is not a one-way street. You can respectfully disagree.
hmm....
I WAS JUST GONNA SAY THAT! i think he’s just part of crownheights.info and thats how they start discussions…..if not…..millhouse im sorry maybe u shud do some other things with ure time……and srsly stop objecting people’s opinions! pls!
Former Chabad Supporter
Dear Crown Heights Info,
Thank you for so clearly illuminating the official Chabad/Lubavitch position on the State of Israel.
No more side stepping, half truths, vague position statements – you joined tens of thousands of your like minded brethren to demonstrate against the democratically elected govt in Eretz Yisrael – but here in downtown NYC! So, now that we know how you truly stand – let other brave men AND women defend the State of Israel, and you can continue to up 24/7.
Now all the contribution salted for the Chabad House, etc can go to the JNF!
the doc
Dont forsake CHABAD because of Millhouse’s comments. Please,
from his writing it is clear he is not one of us.
Chabad spreads unity amongst Jews.
To learn torah one goes to a litvish yeshia, to learn ahavas yisroel one goes to cHabad. Look at all the work Chabad does in Israel with the soldiers.
Milhouse
“The doc”, I am not stating my position, I am stating the REBBE’S position. Chabad is anti-zionist. That is the truth. The official Chabad position is that the State of Israel should never have been established in the first place. The Rebbe would not even utter its name. He always spoke about the land, not the state that occupies it. When a printer insisted on including 5 Iyar in a Lubavitch calendar, the Rebbe refused to allow it and threatened to cancel the contract over it. Even when an event took place at an address on “Rechov Ha’atza’ut” the Rebbe removed the address from the souvenir book!
Drama Queen
OH NOES! ALL THE SALTED MONEY TO THE JNF OH NO OH NO!
PLEASE!!! NO! WE’RE BETTER THAN JNF.
BUT WE DON’T PLANT TREES.
Kop Mentch
Soon Milhouse will claim that when your Rebbe davenned, he skipped the Tzion in davening!
Ki MiTzion tetzei Torah, V’sechezena ainainu b’shuvcha l’Tzion…wonder which word he said instead?!
To # 23
כל המבזה את החכמים–אין לו חלק לעולם הבא!!
Oy ma haya lanu
The comments here are disgusting. How you all have drunk from the cup of zionism r”l, Chabad was and always has been anti-zionist, and despite certain statements by the last Rebbe zatzal, this has not changed.
What has changed is a leaderless generation of chassidim who interpret support of fellow jews in Israel to be supporting the entity of a zionist regime.
Brooklyn Boy
Why doesn’t Chabad come out and CLEARLY state their views on Israel, Zionism, serving in the IDF?
Why do they keep donors and prospective donors who are not Chassidim in this “grey zone”. “Of course we love Israel, we love Jews”. “Jewish unity”
This is no longer sufficient. Secular Jews will wake up to the marketing of Chabad and leave – taking their money with them. My next donation will be going to the JNF. Chabad gala? Sorry – will be going to the Friends of the I.D.F. instead. The sanctioned participation of Chabad / Lubavitch in this despicable demonstration is proof enough of their real agenda.
Milhouse
Good bye. You won’t be missed. Chabad’s view is crystal clear: We love Eretz Yisroel. We love the Jews who live there. We support anything that keeps them safe, and oppose anything that endangers them. We do NOT support the State that occupies the land; we believe it should never have been established. If it were possible to dismantle it without endangering its Jewish population we would support that; but we believe it isn’t possible, even in theory, so we reluctantly support its continued existence.
Kop Mentch
Milhouse is saying: When it comes to the State of Israel, Chabad and Satmar are on the SAME PAGE!
I think Milhouse is from Williamsburg!
Menny
The fact that tens of thousands of frum jews who rely on the IDF for their safety and their children’s safety when they visit or go to “learn/party” in Israel would attend such an event in NYC with the global media and the world to see is a disgrace.
You cant pick and choose. I hope that everyone who attended this festival of hate never gets the opportunity to visit Israel in their lifetime.
These photos and this article sickens me.
Next Sunday go and do something productive and helpful for a neighbor, friend or family.