126 Comments

• Trying to Help

  I commend you in speaking out. I agree that parents especially do not probe enough after hearing a negative remark. Hearing something from one person should not be enough, you need to ask at least three (if not more) and get a majority view and then you’ll see that probably that negative remark was made out of lack of information (to be polite on my part).

• not a shadchan

  This is a very fair and reasonable article. Thanks for posting it!

  I know many people desperate for Shidduchim, both Bochurim & girls. Some stumbling blocks are, I understand, their families!! The potential spouse isn’t good enough for their family. So these "kids" are approaching 30, still living at home with no life. Not all "problems" are real problems. Many can be resolved with understanding & compromise. After all, no one is perfect.

  Bochur…how old are you? Do you make a living? Do you have a loving, supportive, functional family? (This can be a real challenge for Shadchanim)I wish I could help you, but I don’t know who you are. Maybe I can be more aggressive in helping others.

  Members of The Shidduch Club…time to reunite???

• anon

  excellent article!

• Gershon Shapiro

  Excellent & very well said. It is unfortunate that you had to write this article & Shadchanim (&some parents)ought to be ashamed of themselves but, we know better they only have excuses!!!

• Observer

  Not to minimize your situation in any way but as a Bucher you don’t realize the effect certain things have in life. For example, the highly controversial topic; Children from a divorced family. Everyone says, "look at her for who she is not for what her parents went threw" the truth is there are always exceptions but for the most part divorce effects a child in ways that allot of times wont come out till they are in a relationship and need to treat another human being like a spouse – and then they are clueless. I know someone who comes from a very "good" family (Parents are married, money, siblings are well rounded etc,)and he married a girl from a divorced family ,because she was a “great” girl. His wife has no concept of how to treat a man, she is so afraid her husband will be like her father that she fails to relies what a good man she married and treat him as such. She works him to the bone and manipulates (her mother’s trait) him on a constant bases. And she thinks, that’s the way things should be, at least that’s all she saw from her mother. So with all due respect to you and your difficulty something you think is a small issue and only one of 1,000 facets is really a pivotal issue which you can not see as a single.

  May Hashem bench you with your true zivug.

• Girl

  Whoever wrote that. Genius. People should have this engraved in their lives…this happens every single day. Rumors, negatively…judging without even knowing the person….
  Good Job

• fp

  there are alot of older girls and boys for that matter sitting and waiting because the parents of these children have to see what is right for them not for the parents themselves we all want the best for our children when we accept who they are as people then we we see all our children married and happy come out of the clouds and you will see more cearly

• children with no hope??

  Observer, get your point. Let’s take it further and please clarify your statement – are you therefore suggesting that people who come from divorced homes should not be allowed to marry?

  Readers, is this the case?? Please post here what you think

• -Bout Time

  In response to Observer:
  Do you think someone who comes from a family where the parents are still maried but should be divorced is any better off? Just because a girl or boy comes from a home that seems ‘normal’ does not make them any more superior to someone from a ‘broken home’

  Kol Hakavod to Op=Ed for bringing this to our attention once again!
  Gemar Chasima Tova

• another observer

  Observer, you wish the author of this article with ‘May Hashem bench you with your true zivug.’

  Perhaps the author comes from a divorced home! oops! In that case, would you like to take your brocha back because according to your insinuations, he is really not capable of being a successful marriage partner??

• right on!

  All that you write is 100% true!
  I’ve seen the scenario myself where a woman walks up to a mother who has a daughter of age and tells her I have a boy etc.. The mother hears one thing she might thing is not suitable for her daughter and dismisses it right then and there not even giving it a chance to look into it further. The woman pleads with her to look into it further but she is firm with her decision based on almost no information
  That is really not the way to go with shadchanim not to mention this girl is quite old
  furthermore

• A Mother

  I think someone should counsel these kids BEFORE they go on dates. How can a girl go out ONE time with a bochur & decide what he’s like on the first date? Example: A bochur who everyone knows has a great personality, is serious about his Yiddishkeit, but also is easy-going & has a great sense of humor is told after the first date that he’s too serious. Was she looking for the class clown???

  They should know basics like a first date is for finding out the basics of the bochur (or girl) not spending time seeing how many jokes he/she can make… That’s something more appropriate for a later date. But then, maybe I’m just old-fashioned.

  If people thought about the important things in life, maybe there would be more shidduchim & less singles.

• Three reasons that we have this problem

  15-20 years ago, this problem was almost non-existent.

  I believe the singles problem is due to three basic reasons:

  1) Today, unfortunately we see a new trend, on the part of teachers and others to speak negatively and search for the chosroinos of a prospective boy or girl.

  (I know of an out-of-town teacher who feels it is her responsibility to point out all faults, and she is proud to let others know about this. If you did not earn her high opinion while her student- your chance of finding a shidduch easily goes down considerably.)
  2) Everyone is seeking ‘the top’. Mothers are seeking perfection. The fact is, nobody is perfect; everyone has their chosroinos. And the ‘top’ might not be good for you.

  Not everyone is the most brilliant, good looking, tall, last years head-counselor, thin, went to tzfas, but still might be a wonderful, wonderful person to share a life and raise a beautiful family with.

  Can you believe that waist size, waist size!(is she a 4 or a 6) is a question that comes up! How superficial and silly can we get?
  3)The newly emerging rising divorce rate:

  In the past, people knew a shidduch would be a binyan adei ad, and eventually it would all work out. Young people went in to marriage with a less self-centered attitude.

  Todays rising divorce rate scares people off from suggesting or pushing shidduchim; it may even be responsible for people highlighting ‘chosroinos’ (they may feel they have to
  ‘cover’ themselves.)

  The secret to a happy marriage is to know and understand that the person you married is not perfect, just as you are not perfect, and to focus on and greatly appreciate their good qualities. But today, everyone demands PERFECTION.

  Having said all that, we had it easy: Armed with a brocha -that we heard or saw with our ears or eyes- we went in to marriage with the confidence that the Rebbe’s brochos will be mikuyim.

  We need moshiach now!

  Gmar Chasima Tova.
  May all those searching for a zivug find their bashert very soon and with ease and simcha.

• CROWNHEIGHTSER & LOVING IT

  ATTENTION OBSERVER: SOMEONE PAID ME A HUGE COMPLIMENT YESTERDAY. SHE ASKED ME WHERE I GREW UP BECAUSE I DON’T SEEM TO BE SO NARROWMINDED AS MANY OF MY NEIGHBORHOOD PEOPLE. HOW CAN YOU THROW ALL GIRLS FROM DEVORCED HOMES INTO ONE PACKAGE? JUST BECAUSE YOU MET ONE GIRL WHO IS A BATTLEAXE OF A WIFE AND HAPPENS TO TAKE AFTER HER MOTHER WHO HAPPENS TO BE DIVORCED, DOESN’T MEAN EVERY GIRL FROM A DIVORCED HOME IS LIKE THAT. WHAT ABOUT THE GIRLS WHO COME FROM HOMES WHERE THE PARENTS ARE NOT DIVORCED BUT UNKNOWN TO YOU AND ME THE PARENTS FIGHT LIKE CAT AND DOG? IS THAT BETTER? AS LONG AS YOU CAN SAY SHE’S NOT FROM A DIVORCED HOME?
  AND TO THE BOCHUR, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY, YOU GUYS ARE A BIG PART OF THE PROBLEM. IF A GIRL IS NOT A SIZE ONE (MAYBE ONE AND A HALF) AND ISN’T GORGEOUS MOST GUYS TODAY WON’T EVEN LOOK AT HER. IT DOESN’T MATTER IF THEY THEMSELVES MIGHT BE UGLY AND EVEN OVERWEIGHT, BUT SHE HAS GOT TO BE A MODEL. SO WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?????? IF THE GUYS WOULD START LOOKING AT THE GIRLS CHARACTER MORE THAN THE LOOKS IT MIGHT JUST HELP.

• happily married

  This was one of the many ideals of the one and only Shimshon Stock ob"m. He was able to see people, understand them, and read through them. It is because he had this special talent that he was able to make many hundreds of shiduchem. We need more people like him who can help singles find their bashert.
  By the way, saying a few kapitelach tehillim doesn’t hurt either.

• bottom line

  The bottom line is that it is all up to the one above. If for whatever reason someone gave a bad report about you it is because Hashem wants to prevent you from meeting this girl who is not meant for you. If a parent hears only good things but decides that their child won’t be able to live with such a perfect person it is also because they are not meant for each other. The singles should start understanding that their ‘perfect’ match may not be their match at all and should be happy that they got a ‘no’. A yes could be a disaster. It would mean you would marry someone who is not your zivug. she would be married to someone not her zivug. your and her real zivug would be either single or married to yet someone else’s real zivug which would mean that THEIR zivug etc..
  So next time there is a ‘no’ just be happy u were spared a disaster and don’t try to find out who gave the info about you.They did you a favor even if you don’t realize it now.

• A Mother who is in the Parsha

  Sometimes the parents are very set in their specific demands for yechus, money, looks, etc. and they don’t consider what is best for their child and who their child would be compatible with and maybe make them happy, because that is a more American way to view things and some people act like we still are a community in Russia. Also, this concept of "traffic", where several eligible children in a family sit around and wait for a very older sibling to move, thereby creating several eligible but untouchables in a family which keeps their zivugs in limbo, too!

• anon

  Sometimes,
  the single person really does have some problems (who doesn’t?) that can be preventing a shidduch. Getting into therapy with a good thereapist can help them work on things so that they aremore preparedfor marriage. Don’t just blameothers, look at yourself and think about what you can improve.
  May G-d bless everyone with finding their true basherts and healthy marriages.

• Yehudi

  I’d like to say that the writer of this article seems to have his head on straight. It was a mature response to a very serious problem that existed when I was single and looking over twenty years ago.
  It is a big problem when you have the rumor mill alive and well and they are busy with the wrong things.
  Communities around the globe are being affected by the lashon hara and we should all be careful what we say and how we say it.
  An instance in my past reminds me to watch what I say about others. I was told that a roomate was asked about me and their response was I don’t really know them. Can you imagine what that left the person thinking about me? I was very hurt. Thank G-d the person had the intelligence to ask others .

  Sinas chinum has long term and damaging effects on not only the person being spoken about, to the person listening, but more so the person doing the speaking.
  It is a good idea to think before you spseak and to put yourself in that persons place. With all the tradgedies happening r"l we need to seriously take this into consideration. For the protection of our communities,our families and ourselves.
  Please, especially before Yom Kippur.
  we should all have only simchas.

• PROB

  i think a big part of the problem is parents. parents want there kids to marry people who they are happy with, but not with who there kids are going to be happy with. what will everyone say if they see my kid with this person. talk to your kids ask them what they want. get to know your kids.you will find out what they are looking for is very different to what your looking for. in the end you will be more happy and so will they!!!

• a. nonymous mother

  excellent article..also, good comments..Bochur, keep the faith, doven hard, and may Hashem send you your bashert soon! Moshiach now! all the best for a g’mar tov!

• double standard

  people are going to say this:

  the author is right… let someone else follow the advice this is my child getting married and i will do as i see fit!

  This is a wrong approach, believe it or not your child is not perfect and neither is their bashert (or the parents of the bashert)

• rg

  Another major issue is that girls and guys- no matter what age they are- a lot of time are not honest with their parents as to whom they really are. I am not a shadchan but I have tried, and a lot of times parents are too afraid to face the reality and see who their child really is. Parents out there have to realise that before looking anywhere there has to be an open, heart to heart talk about who their child is and who their child wants. I know its hard to face the music, but you are only doing yourself and your child a favor. It isnt fair for your child to go out with a million people who are on a different planet. There is someone out there for everyone….and the real reason you are looking is so that your CHILD can have a happy life…right?

• HaBochur HaTomim

  To Observer: What you you say:

  "…effects a child in ways that allot of times wont come out till they are in a relationship…"

  may be correct, however only in regards to concrete facts such as a divorce. To allay this concern, thorough research needs to be done to give the girl a chance. If we are lazy and do not wish to put in this extra effort for research, we are unfairly denying her a fighting chance. To help this, maybe the girl/boy should get a "spokesperson" who can accurately describe if they have been impacted negatively or not, and to what severity.

  In regards to what I call "…something unique about me…," it is not as you say a "difficulty." It is my blunt and practical personality which sometimes knocks unstable people off-balance so they wrongly view me as being insensitive. This leads strong people to view me differently than others.

• Observer Too

  Excellent article!
  I just wanted to reply to observers comment regarding children of divorced parents, as I understand this situation all too clearly. Unfortunately, my parents are divorced and I have seen the possible results this has on children both first and second hand via myself and mysiblings. There are three ways of going through something difficult, 1. survival mode 2. sinking 3. thriving. Whenever anyone goes through something tough they deal with it in one of these three ways. Let me explain each. Survival mode is the most common, it means that they are faced with a situation that they can not deal with fully yet at the same time they cope with it on a basic level, in this example of divorced parents, a child in survival mode would be well functioning yet might have a difficult time in relationships (if they don’t get help in dealing). Survival mode is usually how we deal with issues initially, using adrenaline to keep us going. Then we have sinking which unfortunately happens when a person can not deal with what they are going through and it pulls them under, (for example: depression etc.) This is not as common and is usually quite evident. The third is Thriving which is when a person going through a difficult situation accepts that this is from Hashem and (like the Ba’al Shemtov says) tries to learn what they can from every aspect in life and especially the difficult ones. In this situation this would mean someone who has observed (at home) what an unhealthy marriage is like and recognizes which things have caused it and how those could have been prevented. They have observed other families with strong, healthy family values and learned which things are important and methods of communication which are necessary for a good and productive relationship and life.

  So before you write someone off just because their parents are divorced try and find out how they have dealt with it. Because those of us who are thriving, because we learned from our situations, tend to become even better spouses than the average single out there.

  and remember: it’s not the child’s fault that their parents got divorced, so give a fair chance to those who have dealt with it in the best way possible. Just look into it carefully as you would any other issues that any single might have gone through. But please don’t just write us off. Thank you.

  A gmar chasima tovah to all of you and it should be a year full of simcha!

• Mendy

  I live in Crown Heights and I will never get married with a Shadchan simply because the way shidduschim is treated. Most of the time the parent do NOT think about how their kids would be happy with this prospective person, rather their initial though is “how would it look for our family if we settle for them or wow I will for sure push this Shudduch because its looks better for us” Also most parent should just chill when it comes to going out and marriage in general, treating it like it some ominous very touchy concept just turns kids off. The worst is when you are set up on a date without being asked if you are interested.

• Viewer

  To Observer:

  You’re right that seemingly insignificant things can affect a marriage. Divorce can be more harmful than people think. However, IT IS NOT HOPELESS. Even children from divorced families (yes, it affects the whole family) can learn to have healthy relationships. A good therapist or marriage counselor can train a person to recognize the problems they had at home and learn from them.

  In general, it’s a good idea to see a marriage counselor once in a while, like a doctor’s checkup. Proper marriage counseling is helpful for everyone, not just for people who "have problems". Every relationship, no matter how good, has its ups and downs. Every relationship has challenges that can be straining. Having someone to go to, like a mashpia or marriage counselor, really makes a difference.

  As I once heard: It’s normal for couples to fight, but the fight has to be done right.

  You’re allowed to disagree, but knowing how to disagree respectfully is important. You’re allowed to dislike someone’s behavior, but knowing how to address it with love and respect makes all the difference. It helps to have an outsider (not your siblings, parents, or friends – who are subjective) to help you work through issues in a healthy way.

  So if someone suggests a shidduch for a child from a divorced family you should be careful, but don’t dismiss it completely. They can be trained to have healthy relationships. And don’t forget – sometimes children from families who are still together experience just as much friction, fighting, disrespect, abuse and lack of love as their divorced counterparts.

  Thank you bochur for bringing up this important topic. By the way, what’s the status on the new shidduch program that Moshe Rubashkin is starting?

• A friend who is trying to help

  I have found it next to impossible to even get anyone to answer their phones when I make a shidduch call! I even leave a message that it is in regards to a shidduch and you would think these people would *run!* to the phone. I call back many times and still no response!

  And those looking for a shidduch, you should be very careful who you put on your Reference phone List. I have called people (who actually answered their phones!) and the responses I have gotten are (from Rabbis and Shluchim!), "I really don’t have much to do with that person", "No, I do not recall any kindnesses that person did." "He’s been at my Shabbos table only a couple of times, I really don’t know him." *These* are the people you chose as references?!

  Or how about the phone numbers that are not correct or ‘no longer in service.’

  Please if you are looking for a shidduch, rethink and redo your References. Check those phone numbers. Do these people really know you? What will they have to say about you?

  Shluchim, Rabbis, Rebbitzins, Anash…please ANSWER your phones, or give a call back. Your one call could be the start of a whole new Jewish family!!

• Chezkel

  There are a lot of people who trust their parents to find them a shidduch, but they are not on the same page as their children and do them a great injustice by thinking that they are helping them and only looking for the best for them. They turn down great prospective spouses because they hear something unflattering, and their perfect child has no flaws. I ask you bochrim and girls who know this about your parents not’t to wait until you are 25 and people are looking for the bad, "why is he\she so old? What is wrong with him\her?" You are just as much to blame. Take the initiative, either talk to your parents or deal with the shadchan directly. Also be realistic, you will find you are going out with more suitable perspectives. Don’t judge others as you yourself would not like to be judged.

• hi

  totally agree!,

  A brocha from a choson to the author a "future chosson", May Hashem bless you to find your bashert MIYAD MAMOSH!

• BF

  As parents we should be asking ourselves what does our child want for a spouse – not what do we want for an in-law! Not everyone is cut out to go on Shlichus! Pay attention to your children – each one is different.

• Worst Shidduchim in Jewish History

  This should sum it up.

  The following are some of the worst shidduchim in Jewish history as overheard being discussed by shadchanim:

  Avraham: His father worshipped idols.

  Yitzchok: I hear his half-brother is an Arab.

  Rochel Imeinu: Her father is a deceptive businessman. Maybe it runs in the family.

  Yaakov: They say he has an evil twin.

  Moshe Rabeinu: The guy has a speech impediment.

  And so the list goes on…by today’s standards are very own forefathers and foremothers were among the worst shidduchim as illustrated above.

• to author

  I’m kind of in the same boat as you……..the fact is those

  Bochurim who want to go on shlichus which is the mainstream

  They do get married quicker then the working class (maybe b/c it’s less complicated)

  But the truth of the matter is there is no difference between the one who goes on shlichus and the working bochur

  In regards to hashkakfa etc. you don’t have to be a “CHSIDESHE BOCHUR” to go on shlichus these days.

  Ps I thought by now I would have a companion for my vacation…..but I don’t, how about we both go to Porto Rico or something?

  gmar chasima tova

• Watch out!

  I know of a friend, (who happens to be a fantastic person )gave a shlucha as a reference.

  She did an amazing job while working there and was certain the shlucha appreciated her qualities.
  Well, as it turns out, the shlucha in question nixed every shidduch that came along this poor girl’s way.

  After several years,it came to light that the shlucha was the source of the problem. Needless to say, she was removed from the reference list right away. Shortly thereafter, the girl got engaged to an excellent boy.

  Watch out!

• call your refernces

  this is an excellent article. bochur you sound intelligent and well spoken.
  one thing i’d like to add is, call your references. get a friend sibling to make a phone call to your references to see what they say. I have done this for my sister and the reference described her and i did not even recognize her as being my sister!
  questions that are obvioulsy simple like what sem did she go to were being aswered falsley. she was portryaed as a mousy- yes the word mousy was used – quiet shy from a different backround than we are.
  before we put any name down as a refernce, call them first.

• A SUPPORTER

  Its show how corrupt SOME shadchonim actually are. What is a shadchan? Usually they are the biggest yentas in town. They usually are in the business so that they get to hear and spread loshon hora, and they exaggerate what they hear by 100 times. The only time they wont is if they know the guy/girls parents even if the kid could be the worst they will still give a good reference.
  Point is there needs to be someone that gets rid of shadchonim like this.

  I know of one personally Mrs ***** from *****, I know I shouldn’t say names but I feel that its helping kids in the future

  She’s just horrible

  This corruption need to end!!!

  SHADCHONIM SHOULD ONLY SAY GOOD ABOUT A PERSON PERIOD. IF THEY WANT TO HEAR BAD THEY SHOULD TALK TO A ROV, THE SHADCHAN SHOULD REFFERNCE THEY PERSON TO SPEAK TO A ROV OR SOMEONE THAT IS CREDIBLE, NOT JUST A LOSHON HORA ADDICT.

  CHI EDIT: Do not mention anyone by name!

• lucky

  great suggestions, tongue in cheek…but maybe not:
  1. Find your own. pass the word around for all eligibles to sign on to a site like frumster or create a chat room. do this all in a respectful and tzniusdik way. artificialities (looks, money) will matter much less in this manner.
  2. rent out a huge hall and create a Tu B’av situation.

  Many times a shadchan will be especially on the lookout to match up couples who they think would be suitable as per families…not as to what would be best for the individuals.
  parents arent always aware or they are in denial as to alot about their childrens personality. eg, the children might be sneaking out to do things the parents think their child would never do. the child might be reading material under the covers that the paerents would thing their child doesn’t do.
  of course, many times a good shiddach will have aver positive influence on the spouse. But, parents, be aware and truthful to yourselves about all the facets of your wonderful eligible child.
  There should be a central data base with a very trustworthy person manning this that would allow all enrolled indivuals to look through the data base without seeing the names or pictures and then select who they would think most suitable for themselves.

• Chanie

  There’s another major problem that the boys and girls ruin for themselves: They tell their friends who they go out with and this one is farchnyokt and this one is ugly etc. So when the name ever comes up for the friend s/he will never go for it.If the friends wouldn’t be telling each other it might have worked beautifully.Each person has a different taste and look about it!!!
  Boys and girls, please keep it a secret who you’re going out with!!!

• DLM

  do what i did;

  call ur references and see what they are saying about you, if you dont like what you hear use someone else.

  even your best friend can say bad things about you (not to hurt you c"v – but he just feels that these are obvious things and "i dont want to say things about him and then be held at my word for not telling his chsroinos"

• ha ha

  I love the jewish history bit.
  thanks for the truth!

• Hashem IS here

  As much as it is in our part and we need to make ourselves a kli for this special brocha, I think you are all forgetting a major part in this project.

  G-D!!!

  At some point it boils down to HIS plan. We have to remember that we are not in control of the world at large or even the shidduch scene. All we can do is have daven, and have bitachon.

  May all your prayers be answered for a year of brocha and simcha.

• Happily married to child of divorced

  Observer, you are totaly off!

  There are many diffrent factors that matter in such a case.

  there are many children in this situation (my wife included) who are much better aquipped at marrige, since they know the pittfalls and WHAT NOT TO DO, as opposed to kids who’s parents are married, but at each others throats every other day…
  did the divorce go smoothly? do both parents show there love for the child without badmouthing the other parent? are the parents happily remarried with a peacefull loving spouse? (two loving homes…)

  in many cases, this is a benifit, not a disadvantage!!!

• individual who dated too short b4 tying.

  nice article.
  I think there is an issue with the dating in orthodox circles, but I also feel young singles and the orthodox community should change their views on the short dating requirements.
  I feel youngsters should not feel pressured to tie the knot so early in their dating. People need to get to know each other real well- and this is in agreement with the author of this article. People need to get to know each other for who they are. date. talk.
  Youngsters dating to get married don’t really get to know their spouse well enough before they get engaged. Hormones and social pressure cause us to make too quick a decision, but when you find the right person, it is love (I hope).

• Unmeddling Parent

  I’m a single Jewish parent. I do not mess in the affairs of my child, I can only advise my child and it’s my childs choice weather or not to head my advise. I truly believe it’s my childs choice as to whom my child marries and spends the rest of their life with. Parents should stay out of this decision. After all, when I’m gone, my child is going to have to live with this person

• someone that sets up others

  To Observer

  it is because of people like you that there are so many single people. Do not streotype or make judgements on situations that you do not know anythign about. I am married to aguy that actaully came from a messy divorce. AND I AM BEYOND HAPPILY MARRIED. HE IS AN INCREDIBLE HUSBAND, WHO IS SO DETERMINED TO MAKE ME HAPPY. I AM WORLDS HAPPIEST WIFE!!! so before you make a judgement pick up the phone and set some people up…thats what me and my special husband do.

• are there any good shadchanim???

  I think that Shadchanim should also start paying more attention to the propect’s needs. Usually ther shadchan will throw out some names just for the sake of giving names without much thought. I’ve seen it (and experienced it) way tooo often. As much as Parents need to be on the same page and refernces should watch what they say, shadchanim should take their job more seriously or stop wasting precious time!!!

• FRIENDS AND FAMILY

  I hope friends and Family get involved in finding a shidduchim , Frinds and Family know both sides helpful in sharing shiddach compatability .
  Who knows a better a match then Friends and Families .
  DEAR Friends, Join in! Become involved.
  Please join in a project to match two friends this week.
  This is True Ahavas Yisroel, Helping a Desperate parent who has no clue where to start.

• chaim rosen

  we need to remember parents
  who make mistakes about whats good for their child, even if they have good intentions, make a mistake for life, get help now (if your child is not finding a shidduch)
  about whats really good for your child,NOT whats in your self interest!!!!!! BTW this does not only apply to SHIDUCHIM, IF A PARENT DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THEIR CHILD GET HELP HOW TO DEAL WITH HIM WHILE THEY ARE STILL YOUNG,ENOUGH SAID!!!!

• What-s going on?

  And so many parents have this list when looking:
  MONEY
  GESZHE
  SHLUCHIM
  If you dont fall into either of these categories, you’re off the list.
  Are you looking for an actual person, a bashert for your child? Or are you looking for certain criteria that will "look good?"
  And money? What’s up with that? Scince when does the family have to have alot of money to be worth looking into???

• AN IMPORTANT THOUGHT

  Very important and no one seems to have mentioned it:
  Now a days there seems to be this big gap in terms of what it means to be chassidish. When a girl says that she would like a ‘good chassidish’ guy that can be a wide range of aspects. I married what i thought was a ‘chassidish’ guy since that was what he saw himself as only to later realize that he has his ‘own’ version of what chassidish is and in my book he was far from a ‘mentch.’ So all I can say is that we either stop using that term or we pull ourselves together and start behaving like real chassidish CHASSIDIM OF THE REBBE! For those of us who are looking to get married, get yourself a full set of ETERNAL JOY, and really internalize it. Work constantly to understand what the Rebbe has to say about marriage, family, home etc. The Rebbe made sure to give us very clear guidlines to help us meet our zevug and to have a chassidishe home. This will ultimitaly give us the best life full of kedusha!

• BrookAve

  Look, a reasonable amount of research is required. It is your daughter after all. Put the Bochur under the microscope? Not really, but for me, her father and her, a smoker was on the no no list. The Shadchan said he is a non smoker. She heard it from the Bochur. If you find out that he had a Simchas Torah smoke? Is it innocent? What does it mean? He looked real comfortable with that puffing. All from a "reliable" source of course. Weigh it out? Maybe.Or run away like from a fire? To US smoking is ugly, dangerous etc. Call US what you want. Others may say too extreme. He can quit. It helps him relax…

• Mother of Specially Crafted Diamonds

  (To the site – NOT TO BE POSTED!!! – is there anyway to get in touch with the author of the article? I understand that we all try to remain anonymous – but when there is a chande to actually effect some help, is there anyway to get in touch with the actual author/commenter of the specific topic, whichever it may be, particularly if there is even the slighest chance that help might come about?

• It-s all %

  All the above is true however you all fail to mention the fundamental problem that is plaguing the Shidduch world as a whole and chabad in particular. NUMBERS, it all comes down to mere numbers, the male to female ratio is not balanced in general and by chabad it if felt very strongly, there are an average of 3 females to every male. How do we solve a problem with nature?

• OUT OF TOWNER NOT GEZHE!!

  i think one of the biggest issues we face today in oilam hashiduchim is as follows: some of the shadchanim are in it only for the money and fame. and if you dont have so much money or you dont live in CH or your grandparents did not "PISH IN NEVEL" they will not look your direction. and in addition they dont answer their phones and if u leave tens and hundreds of messages they still dont get back to u and so this i think is a very important issue that people seeem to overlook. Maybe there are capable ppl out there who can do a fine job in helping people find their soulmate and they probably would do a much better job than most of the shadchanim we have at the helm right now!!

• also........

  one step further, some one very close to me had her Best friend" as a referance. this so called "best friend," took everyone of her malot and turned them into chasronot. if you cant trust a girl, or boys best friend, then who can you trust?

• anon

  Thank you for bringing this to peoples attention.
  Bochur, in your comment you said "impacted negatively or not, and to what severity"
  sometimes divorced parents davkah make very strong kids because the kids see what happens when parents fight. like you say, it has to be looked into.
  anyways, well done.

• The Finale - By Bochur B

  i believe, the system that is set up in the none lubavitch communities is a way that should be suggested to parents.

  When there are Girls and Boys that are having a hard time dating and finding the right one, parents should get together and say ok, he is good for her and she is good for him and make a "sitting" the girl and boy should meet for an hour, if they enjoy the conversation and have similarities then Mazel Tov!

  This does work in other communities, why not start it here?

  I’m a bochur who is single and is having a hard time with the shidduchim process, i think this way would help majorly and get our people married and chances are greater that the marriage will last!

  Anyone disagree?

• an

  another major flaw in the system is that people call the referances and they get an apinion. what do i mean? instead of just saying what they know about the person, people add if they think its compatable! who are these people to decide if its compatable or not? its not right and needs to stop.shiduchim dont go through

• TO BOTTOM LINE

  to bottom line: your being ridiculous …you have to do your bit in order for something to happen……..

• B.

  TO:
  Worst Shidduchim in Jewish History:
  The best comment I have read so far, maybe even the best thing I have read In a long time!

• bt

  children of divorced parents (and un-healthy married parents) will accomplish much more, in much less time, speaking to a good mashpia, then the most highly qualified therapist. take it fom one who knows.

• Married but remember when...

  I am a b”h a happily married girl. I went through some of the problems that are mentioned here.
  Boys are picky. They want a girl who is skinny, tall and striking when they are nothing special. This is especially when they have sisters who tell them who not to go out with. Most times they say no to a girl who is pretty good-looking and then anyways end up with someone less pretty than the girls they said no to anyways. It is just they don’t even know what they want and their own mothers and sister confuse them.
  Parents think what THEY want is the best for the child. I’ve seen this with my own parents and with many friends from mine. In the end everyone usually marries what is best for THEM(hopefully). So parents should wake up and get to know their children and LISTEN to them.
  I think most single girls and guys know what they want but its the outside people, mothers, shadduchim, siblings and friends that confuse things.
  I have thought of this idea and would love for some people in charge to think about starting it: I think nowadays most of the boys and girls do NOT care about yichus, money and status. Everyone wants the right person for them to match their personality and characterisitics. You will find Shluchim who are modern to some exent and modern couples quite frum. There are many levels of lubavitch these days and times have changed.However many parents, teachers and shadchans are thinking the same old ways and don’t know how to deal with the people of today. My idea is a speed dating set up by respectable teachers and leaders of the community. Nobody needs to know who is who. Every boy and girl who is ready for it can meet in seperate rooms for half hour or so and just talk. Then after everyone meets, they can give a list to the people in charge of which boy or girl they think they would want to go out again with. Then the people in charge go through the lists and if a boy and girl said yes to each other, the people running it can speak to the parents and the parents can investigate THEN and if is something to go for, they can go out again!!! I think most people can know after 20 minutes if they like a person enough to go out or not..this would save time, pain, and months of investigating. My own parents sometimes spent months checking on each guy i went out with (if they decided yes)and after finally going out I knew after 2 minutes no(until i met my husband of course!!) In fact I know many people who are happily married to people they said no to, sometimes for a few years, myself included. I think my idea of a kosher systematic speed dating can really benefit lots of young people and would lessen the time and pain of the system today.

• i like op=ed he is right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  i like op=ed u are a 100% right i know someone that was being asked about a reference and and she was about to say something not so good about the person, and then she had a feeling that they would end up together and because she did not say that "not so good" thing they are still happily married

• Heard that one before

  Dear Watch out!

  Your friend & my friend must have worked for the same Shluchah (or they are the same person)! I was horrified to hear how the Shlucha did not even say one nice thing about her. How can a person find it in their heart to potentially ruin someone’s shidduch like that? Is it possible that there is anyone in the world without any good quality? You can even say about Eisav that he had Kibud Av Va’eim!

  Please leave your personal grievences aside when receiving shidduch calls.

• Please help the singles!

  As an "older" single girl with lots of "older" (25+) single and/or divorced friends, I am begging each and every one of you to sit down tonight and as often as you can, with or without your spouse and rack your brains. Think of all the singles you know and kinda know, make it your business to find out more about them if you need to and TRY to make matches. You’d be surprised how successful you could be if you just tried a little. There are far too many WONDERFUL singles that desperately want to get married and start families. Each and every one of you really can help – get in touch with friends and neighbors and discuss possibilities. Be careful always of what you say – nobody is telling you to lie, but be aware of what is necessary information and what is irrelevant loshon hora or rumor. Often, the couples that you would never think of matching up live happily ever after and wish someone had thought of the match earlier. I ask that you at least make the effort to find out some information about anyone you try to set up, because frequently names are just thrown out at a single with little or no information – what do you expect them to do? Call up the whole tzach list for info? Treat this like a giant business deal – with a tremendously rewarding profit – put all your kochos into it and you won’t regret it. One more thing: if a single declines a shidduch offer you make them, even declines several, pleeeeaaaase don’t give up. I do realize that there are some girls/bochurim that are really particular about irrelevant nonsense and they can be annoying to please, but the vast majority of singles, especially the ones I know, are not being picky when they say no – more often than not they have perfectly good reasons and are not always comfortable having to explain themselves. It’s okay to ask "why not", but please accept what they say/don’t say (unless they are clearly misinformed)and move on – find them someone else. Don’t judge.

• You dont have to be size 1

  This is to "CROWNHEIGHTSER & LOVING IT"

  I am A GUY and happily married thank G-d. Looks might not be the whole picture but it sure is part of it. We are not angels or machines…we are people and we are GUYS. Looks are important. I will agree that it should not stop a shidduch from going out because sometimes the personality can overshadow the looks but lets be practical. Its not a girls fault if she is overweight etc… but some will find it acceptable and some just wont!

• All the good ones are taken?

  Why is it becoming more and more difficult to find solid, chassidishe boys who don’t trim beards, don’t watch secular movies, spend quality learning time AND also take good care of themselves and know how to hold an intelligent conversation and treat girls with the respect they deserve? We’re not talking about handsome designer-clad prince charmings here – just normal, put-together, solid, chassidishe boys with a bit of personality. This is especially a problem with boys in their later 20’s and up – if they’re not married, they often either don’t take good care of themselves or they drop their standards of chassidishkeit (and often, sadly, frumkeit too.) This is a real challenge for the intelligent, put-together, fun, attractive AND frum and chassidish girls out there. Some are starting to look outside of Lubavitch, which although not tragic is really a pity. (I just want to point out that there is nothing wrong in my opinion, with an older boy getting a job, but all too often, that comes together with lowering of standards. Why?)

• Let-s Seek Solutions

  Regarding people giving misinformation about bochrim or girls: unfortunately as a community, we have not been very educated with regard to the halachos of lashon horah and have done ourselves a giant disservice by not sensitizing ourselves as to what can and cannot be said. I call upon our community leaders to offer clear and concise guidance as to how to answer questions asked on shidduchim inquiries; to explain what is subjective vs. objective information, how to reply to questions about medical issues, etc. Maybe such guidance will help things start moving!!!

  Also, I want to note the following, but I can’t suggestion a solution at this time:
  Parents cannot be held totally at fault for not knowing what their child needs; sons as well as daughters are often sent away from home at the age of 14 and return for only a few weeks at a time two or three times a year. Many of these bochrim and girls have, for better or for worse and to their merit, a tremendous amount of kibud av v’em and don’t want to hurt their parents by revealing who they really are. How often does it look good on paper and then s/he says it’s not at all for her/him. I think that this situation has a lot to do with the breakdown of our shidduch system.

• Kayla

  All parents care about is that their child gets married to someone that doesn’t touch his beard, and goes to shul three times a day..and learns
  24/7! And it doesn’t matter if they get along….only if he’s chassidish…well…duh they want the best for you, us…but….too dramatic sometimes….meeting someone on my own, is so much more convenient, the right way..but at least…normal people that are for me, and not for different leveled girls! I think parents need to look at their children and then pick someone, not to find someone a million times more chassidish, it doesn’t go, it doesn’t click, it isn’t a puzzle….get my drift. MATCH, MATCHING PEICES…NOT OPPOSITE!

• shmule

  very well wrtie article. I think the author brought out a lot fo good points. Observer; also very good point. Yes everyone needs to get married, however people who come from divorced familys are not as stable and content with thier lives. Yes your getting married to the girl etc. but think about it you will be spending yom-tov etc. Sorry, thats a big consideration. I agree about the jugding, but i think alot of girl have absolutly no idea what they want in life. therefor one day they will want to go on shlichus the next day work. there need to be specail classes on what needs to be looked for on shiddichim. pple are getting depressed and its hard to trust pple.11

• shmuel

  to "happily married",
  i agree, Shimshon had some great points, starting with, you shouldn’t marry a girl so that you can show off to your freinds, remember that you ain’t so hot yourself, and everyone has problems, starting from you, so don’t look for perfect.
  he has plenty of article that were rewritten for his granddaughters wedding, get ahold of his family, ask if you can read it somehow, it can do only good for all those in the business, boys, girls, parents and shadchunim,
  good luck to all those on the market.

• anonymous

  People really should be careful what they say when asked about a person. Before I went out with my husband someone told us that he has no friends. B"H we did not listen and by the way my husband has plenty of friends and no social issues!

• humph

  great article and excellent footnotes. just remember that something that you find negative may not be negative for the girl or boy.when you are asked to give a refrence make sure to sound possitive at ALL times. and only if you feel there is a real issue then you MUST raise it.
  please do not make people hang if youre not interested tell them right away!

• Working with Shiduchim

  I know, dealing with it first hand, that boys and girls from the most "wanted" families of Anash are having relationship issues – this is not a fact saved only for those from divorced parents!! I have seen it unfortunately more than I would have liked and in speaking with these couples see that if only they had a little coaching in how to communicate they would be in a far better place.

• ideas

  B”H

  1. Before you go out on a date, make a three-column list: a) things that you absolutely must have in a spouse/relationship b) things you would really like in a spouse/relationship but could live without if you had to c) things in a spouse/relationship that you feel are not acceptable .
  2. Realize when you go on a first date, the person is like a white canvas. Every detail stands out. Once you know someone for a long time (let’s say a friend), the canvas is full of good things. At times, a few bad colors may come on the canvas, but they are outweighed by the good, so we are willing to overlook or forgive things. Realize that people are not perfect, not on dates, and not in a marriage. The proof: have couples who have been married for years always agreed on every detail, do they totally “click” every day etc…
  3. The dating venues must change. It is not very reasonable for a bochur to have to rent a car for every date, especially first and second dates. How comfortable is it for two people who have just met to hop into a car and try to have their first conversation while he is trying to keep his eyes on the road, yet show her he is paying attention. Why are people getting into a car on their first dates in the first place. It is awkward and uncomfortable for the majority of people I have spoken with.
  4. First and second dates should be in a private home. Obviously large families shouldn’t be expected to suddenly have pizza night out, but comfortable arrangements could easily be made at younger or older couples homes that are perhaps not so full.
  5. Imagine this: A place/building right in Crown Heights for first and second dates (possibly even more). There are two separate entrances and two separate exits, one for bochurim and one for the girls on opposite sides of the building. An appointment is made with the desk attendant by telephone and the person who made the appointment is given a code number to be given to the bochur and the girl. They arrive at their scheduled time, each at their separate entrances. Through the intercom at the entrance door, they give only their code and they are told which room to enter. Rooms are nice, comfortable and supplied with soda, water, etc….. When the date is finished, the couple calls the desk attendant via a phone in the room, letting him know they are ready to leave. With privacy in mind, when the desk attendant gives them the go ahead, the couple leaves through his/her respective exits while no one else is entering or exiting (similar to the women’s mikva set-up). Date times are staggered to prevent more than one couple entering at the same time. In the worst case scenario, if someone is seen entering or exiting the building by a passerby, I would hope that the passerby has tact and decency. And besides, it is not a crime to be going on a date, on the contrary, an ahavas yisroel Yid should be joyous to see that a new Jewish home may be in the making. The main thing is that no one will see who the bochur or girl is on the date with. Names are not given when appointments are made. Pushkas in each room can be available to cover drink costs etc….
  6. Look at the way young married couples look and then look at couple’s photos who have been married for twenty or more years. Certain physical characteristics change over the years. A physical connection is fine, but the real fire is what grows from a loving relationship based on good communication and growth through sharing daily life experiences.
  7. Ask most people married for at least a few years if they could have possibly imagined the scope of their spouses personality based on one or two dates.
  8. It is obvious that we go on dates to find our spouse. That is a given. So when you are on the date, don’t worry about how this person, whom you have only just met and will spend a relatively short while with, fits into your entire future. Relax and enjoy yourself. Let your personalities shine. Do you think you can possibly get your entire personality across in a matter of a couple hours? Of course not, and so it is the same for the other person as well.
  9. Gmar Chasima Toiva

• elchonon

  hmmm well my 2 cents, ive never been mainstream.. never will be…

  A lot of what I do is unpopular and I never really cared, for that matter I have no clue of what people say about me and could not care less.

  Bottom line, I do what I believe in and what I think is right, true I’m not married and could not care less if this was a reason why someone would not want to marry me.

  We all have different things that define us as who we are, not every outward "chisaron" is actually a chisaron.. some things all depend on who’s viewing it.

  Hatzlacha in finding a shiduch!

• HatzlachaRaba

  Our own Lubavitcher history, as reported in Memoirs and other sources praises those who work and don’t rely on the Rabbinate to make a living. Doing honest work combined with Torah learning is an honorable thing! Young men who do so have a lot to be proud of and young women who "only want a learner" should be VERY CAREFUL…just because a guy is sitting in 770 does not mean he is "a learner" (and I have seen many who wouldn’t know the difference if the open sefer in front of them was upside down)and he may not be anywhere near as good a catch as the sincere guy who earns an honest living and learns in his spare time. I sadly watched a lovely, naive young lady get engaged to a "learning" boy only to find out that the guy couldn’t learn his way out of a paper bag, and her family had been mislead because he was a bench warmer in 770. Look for quality and truth.

  Hatzlacha Rabba to the bochur who wrote this. Maybe you can publicize your name…I think you would get a lot of calls!!!!!!

• uncaring shadchanim

  I was engaged and for whatever the reason my engagement was broken off. I met a shadchan a few months later and she said something along the lines of, You know it is not going to be the same for you now that you have something against you. I remember the shock that I felt upon hearing that.

  I definitely agree that parents need to find out what happened. Maybe it was something but maybe it was also nothing.

  Is it fair to put such a blemish on someone?

• nice article

  To Observer:

  Just want you to know that some divorces are done in a peaceful way & the kids don’t come out all messed up & actually the opposite – they would do anything to keep a marriage together because of what they’ve been through. Just remember, its not their fault their parents got divorced. And also I don’t think its any better to date someone from a "normal" family, where the parents are very obviously unhappily married. Just remember, after all, every family has their issues. NO family is perfect!

• Happily married B H!

  Some commenters said it before, but it bears repeating:

  On your first/second/third dates, you’re not looking to find out if you like them. You are looking to see if they have compatible viewpoints with you on the issues you consider vital, and that they don’t have any of your "deal-breakers." THAT’S IT!

  Or in the sage advice of some teacher or another: Make a list of 10 qualities you want in a spouse. Narrow it down to 5. Then look for someone with 3/5.

  Don’t worry about "clicking" or "attraction" until the 4th or 5th date. That’s when hamshachas halev should start to kick in.

  Find a mashpia to discuss your shidduchim. They should help clarify the issues, but NEVER tell you to marry or not marry someone. That’s one decision you need to make on your own.

  And NEVER go out with anyone until they’ve done thier Dor Yesharims.

• been there done that...too many times

  dear ideas,
  personally, going through all that hastle getting into a private room in your theoretical shidduch center is a lot more uncomfortable than just getting into a car…the drive should not be from ny to ca! you’ll have his undevided attention for the rest of the evening.

• Not Today

  what about ppl that suggest someone and know nothing about them? i got a call yesterday from a lady suggesting a guy for me… i told her more about the guy than she knew… she didn’t know he was divorced.. she didn’t know he’s 10 yrs older than me… she didn’t know that he breaks shabbos…. all thing i happend to know as facts…

• in the same boat...hope were not sinking

  you know..i think that the problem ur having with people looking at you and thinking that your really different than what you are because ur not the cookie cutter "shluchus boy" is so true for girls too. I am not a shlucha girl either but that doesnt mean that im spending my free nights out partying. there is a middle line and people dont seem to see that. Just because a girl dresses fashionably and looks good DOES NOT MEAN SHE WANTS A GUY WHO TOUCHES HIS BEARD, DRINKS AND SMOKES! yet people dont seem to understand that you can be a good frum person, a mentch, and not want to go on shluchus, or be learning your chitas everyday etc….does anyone feel the same way??!

• maidel

  ideas-

  Thanks for your earnest advice, but as a single girl on the ‘scene’, I have to disagree with some of the things you said. First of all, contrary to the "majority of the people you’ve spoken with", I feel MOST comfortable getting into a car with the bochur driving. Car services make me so incredibly UNcomfortable.

  Your suggestion of the Shidduch Factory is interesting…. to say the least. Perhaps the post would have been enhanced with a visual – a diagram? As a single girl, if I had to date in a coded room somewhere, I’d have to rethink dating in general. A big part of getting to know someone’s personality is based on how they interact with others… the places they take you… how they are able and responsible enough to get things done.

  In idea #8, you suggest that we just "relax" and not worry about whether this person will "fit into your entire future." I’m sorry, but isn’t that the reason we go out in the first place? If I wanted to spend my relaxing time with a guy, it would NOT be on a date. Shidduchim only have one purpose: finding a partner for marriage. Dating is not fun. I don’t like doing it. However, I know that in order to get married, that’s pretty much what ya gotta do. So I go out – but my ability to pick up on things is heightened. B"H I have great intuition and feel very confident in trusting my instincts. I try to figure out if I like spending time with the guy – and like things about him, FROM THE START! We DON’T date for fun. Listen, I realize it’s not an interview – believe me, I’ve been on dates that have felt like that – and yes, the main point of a first date is to see if you are comfortable with the person, but I have to disagree with someone who wrote above that it’s crazy for a girl to say no after one date. It’s not crazy. When you’re in tune with yourself, sometimes you can just tell it’s not for you from the start.

  One more thought: I recently read an article about the current "shidduch crisis" (not written by a Lubavitcher.) The author wrote about why it’s so hard to be an older single. (B"H I don’t consider myself one of those yet…) Anyway, she says it’s hard because the frum community doesn’t know what to do with older singles. According to the way we live our lives, this group/stage of people isn’t supposed to exist. To this I say, kol hakavod to people who realize that we DO exist (i.e. NIGHTLIFE!) Just something to think about.

  Gmar chasima tova and good luck to all who are looking.

• dtw

  I think that sometimes singles or their parents have unresolved issues that present as "being too picky" but are really indications that they are afraid of some aspect of marriage. The parents may not be ready to let go or the single might not be ready for the obligations of marriage.
  I also think that if people in CH would loan out their living room for couples to date, it would save the couple at least an hour of their date in traffic, finding parking, etc.

• just some thoughts....

  btw…as a girl i ditto the whole dating rules like ‘havin’ to go to Manhattan (who wants to drive for an hour to just sit and talk, you can do that anywhere closer there are lots of really great places in brooklyn!, plus it could get kinda awkward with such a long drive!;) second, its kinda expensive for the guy to rent if they dont have a car and stuff…i always feel kinda bad and want to ask if i can chip in or pay for my own drink;0 its not a secret that you are dating…its a good thing.

• Socioeconomic Shadchan

  Unfortunately many Shadchanim focus on the socioeconomic strata of the perspective client.
  Shadchanim, you’re dealing with PEOPLE, you’re not in the textile business!

• a parent of 2

  fro, the mere fact that the overwheleming rfeedback via the comment, seem to inidcate that this op-ed peice hit the nail on the head.
  i think now is a time for action, my 1dea is to cut out the old school shadchnim, and create a new school approach, and i explain;

  a website that is similar to e-harmony.com where every bochur and girl gets to write a detailed profile, and gets to check off a compatibility checklist, this website should have every need and want and that any person looking to get married, should be able to express. when completed the system can then try to find the most compatible matches, and then suggest idea to each party, ideally the parents would be looking at the results and checking references, and if they are further interested, any of hte parties can click on the button that says connect to this person via the monitor.

  a simple search would find you a list of 5 or 7 or 10 compatible matches.
  then of course this site should have photos of the boys and girls, [and to ensure that this does not get out of hand, it must be moderated, and by that i mean, that to be able to look at the website, you would need to buy access for the site a large amount to discourage playing around, and pay $1,000.00 for a 4 month window. and $200.00 for each additional month thereafter, this will prevent non serious people, from hanging around on the site.]

  once a person gets the results from the database, he can then click to notify the moderator, and then notifiy’s the other party, and volenteers [not shadchonim] act as the go between, until the 3rd date.

  i wold like to see such a system put in place.

  there will be those who will need the old shool system, yet i am certain that you will have a gtreat response from many others. [i hear too many horror stories of familes who are not best friends with the shadchonim and are made to feel like fools running after the nose up in the air shadchonim. while othertimes i hear stories of a certain shadchonis who any time someone offerd a name, and asked that she act as the go between, she ends up making the idea go out with her own kids first.!!! this is a true story. while at other times, if she has an idea for you, she will call the party herself and bypass the parents, and pressure the person to go out. even if they say that they arenrt interested, she will call and harras, untill you consider getting a restraining order. Yikes for the love of g-d, we need change.
  thanks webby for providing this platform.

  may hashem, bless every single boy and girl looking to get married this year, thier right basherte, without any problems.

  i don’t know anyone in crown height who is truly looking for a shiduch you would not pony up real money for a real product and on a standard that cuts though all the b.s. and worthless shadchunim.

  this will give the confidence to all the boys and girls who are frustrated with the system, and give them some much needed hope, and help.

• out of town mom

  We need more articles where people are open and honest about the problems we are facing!

  Mothers and Fathers: When you are given references, PLEASE please call them. Most references are people who really know the person well and if not you’ll oick up on it. But call them! Don’t just call who you want–they may not really know the person!
  be careful of rumors that may be true–ask people who really know.
  .
  Shadchanim: We know you get many calls but please have the decency to return a phone call when we call you and leave a message. We turn to you to help us marry off our children, please at least have the mentschlicheit to answer so we don’t have to call hundreds of times and never hear a return call

  May all the menios v’ikuvim be removed this Yom Kippur and may all our children who need to find their true zivug find it now momosh!

• DONT GO TO SHADCHIONIM!!!!!!

  DON’T GO TO SHADCHIONIM!!!!!!

  I think the blame is totally on the Shadchonim because i think they are money hungry and a wast of time, want a shadchan? go to YOUR friend or family and ask them to find a girl/boy they KNOW,

  GOOD LUCK!
  That’s how i found mine boy did it go fast and easy hardly did any research myself my family member knew him very well, no shadchonim no misleading from outsiders….

• another girl in the masses

  Personally, i liked sitting in a car and driving on my date. If you get bored on the date at least you can observe the scenery! This was a great article and i really enjoyed it. I think that there is so much research a person can do and so many ppl can suggest the exact same shidduch but going out with the person gives you the best picture. As long as there is a valid reason(well i guess that is entirely relative) NOT to go out with the guy/girl, and as long as you are on the same page ie. shlichus/non shlichus/working and frumkeit and chassidishkeit levels, give the person a chance a date to determine compatibility in personalities and viewpoints. I wish all of us the best of luck and looking forward to seeing many many more engagements posted online!

• been there

  children of broken homes try harder so as not to repeat their parents mistakes!

• living and learning

  What is a ‘good’ boy? What would you say is a ‘good’ girl? one thing is universal – that they be good spouses and good parents. the other side of ‘good’ is so relative. for some of my friends a ‘good’ boy will be stable, bring in a steady income, will help out in the house and will always have a good job. for other friends, they’re looking for learners, boys who will go out on shlichus and open dynamic chabad houses etc. for some of my friends ‘good’ means a guy who will farbreng all day in shule on shabbos mevorchim and who will live life iwth a chassidishe koch. for others ‘good’ means a guy who goes to shule, goes to the farbrengen but comes home for kiddush.
  people are looking for ‘good’ girls for their sons – girls who say chitas, learn sefer hamitzvos e/ day etc. r u sure that’s what your son wants?
  similarly with girls – yes, maybe that ‘good’ bochur just finished smicha at the top of his class and maybe eh went on merkos shlichus to yehupitz and maybe he was a HC in some huge overnight camp – but will he be a ‘good’ husband? will he be a ‘good’ father?
  dont’ worry about what others perceive to be good!

  enough with the ‘good’ boys, ‘good’ girls garbage.
  just find what’s GOOD for YOU!

• better marry late, than marry wrong

  Pressure to get married is way too high in our community. Better marry late than marry wrong!!!! People should take more time because you don’t really get to know each other well enough in a few dates. There is way too much pressure to make a decison way too soon. Some people luck out, and some do not and live with it for a lifetime!

• great comments

  B"H

  i hope the people who are coordinating the new shidduch thing are reading this post and its comments. there are a LOT of things u can learn about the shidduch scene from all of this. the best part is the anonymity so people are not afraid to say what they need to say.

  to bt:

  a stam therapist can sometimes be useless, as you say. but there are really good therapists who are also mashpias. i know of at least one very, very good one. with a very strong foundation of chassidus, she’s saved countless marriages and helped countless singles work through things that bothered them or they needed to work through. as we’ve seen from recent tragedies it’s important to have someone reliable, professional and experienced to talk to.

• maidel

  How about instead of trying to find ways for the guys to save money on dates, we actually try to solve the issue bringing about all these dates… Let’s try to help all the singles find their true matches, so they don’t have to waste time, money, emotional health, etc on dating.

  Also, regarding what "just some thoughts" said about not going to Manhattan – it’s true that an hour drive can be horrible – esp if you’re stuck in traffic, however, I think that the drives there and back help break up the date. It’s quite difficult to sit and talk to someone for 3 hours. If it’s broken up into sections though, it makes it more bearable. The travel time should be planned in as total date time.

• my comment is too long :-)

  I’m still at a loss as to where to start. I have to say that the author of this article deserves a lot of credit. Every point that you made was valid, definitly written from the heart. Even if this article brings only one person to pick up the phone and make a shidduch call it was worth it. Yasher Koach!!
  In regards to references, I think some people don’t fully understand the impact they have as a reference. When asked questions about an individual lots of people answer what they think the other will want to hear and not necessarily the truth. How can anyone determine what the other person will want to hear?? How will it help to answer dishonestly? I’m not talking in terms of negative and positive. I’m talking about basics such as TV, Movies, Tznius, etc. I feel like it’s not even worth calling references anymore. In many cases it proved to be a waste of time.
  This is something I think others should follow in, (it cant hurt!): After dating someone and it doesn’t work out I always think about friends or acquaintances that I think the person may be good for (as long as I feel that he is a decent human being). I hate the response that I hear way too often "I don’t want your leftovers". I don’t get it, what kind of answer is that? Just because it didn’t work out between him and me doesn’t mean he is not good for you. So the next time this happens please at least take the time to look into the individual!

  As a single girl who is dating I have to say that it bothers me when guys ask for pictures. I know it has become a "normal" request. Sending a picture is not the part I mind, although I don’t believe judgments should be made by seeing a photo I honestly find that it helps to know the looks of the person who you are about to go out with. So how come when I ask the shaddchan if I can see a picture of the guy I am looking into I have yet to get yes as an answer. And when a girl refuses to send a picture the shadchan tells her that he won’t go out with her without it. Why do the guys have the upper hand?? The problem is as a previous reader commented is that there are more guys out there than there are girls and the guys know this. Which is why they form the attitudes that they have. I’d like to sit in on classes given by Rabbeim in Yeshivas and hear what they are teaching these boys about marriage or maybe its what they are not saying that helps form these attitudes.
  I want to bring up another point that I am surprised nobody has written about yet. It’s about age. Who said an older girl can’t date a younger guy? Yes I know it’s out of the ordinary but why does it have to be that way. There are many younger guys out there who are very mature. It bothers me when guys say no to girls when the only reason they are turning them down is because they are a few months or even a few years older than them. I don’t believe in some cases that it would make a difference. And why should the girl or guy have to feel like people are going to think them strange if they do go ahead with it?

  I myself am still dating through the shidduch process being that at this point it’s my only option although some of my friends are finding their own guys. And when they are asked how they could do such a thing – “They must not be Chassidishe!!” Unfortunately that’s actually what people think. The truth is many of these girls see friends who are going through the shidduch system and they just don’t want to have to go through the same thing.
  I don’t even want to get into the Chassidishe issue because I have yet to find two people who agree on what that means. I wish there was a lubavitch dictionary where we were able to look it up. I hate when I get calls about friends and the inquirer asks me if my friend is Chassidish. My answer is always in the form of the question “How do you define Chassidish? Does it matter what kind of person they are behind that “Chassidishkeit”? or because they say Chitas everyday it doesn’t matter what they act like towards others. I have yet to figure it out. If someone can enlighten me on this I would greatly appreciate it.
  I do agree with many of the replies that Loshon Hora is a big issue. People are always ready to gossip even though the affect of it can last a lifetime. But I understand people like to talk and the juicier the gossip the better, so they say. But I do also know that there are people out there who are a bit more open-minded and will care enough to look for the truth.
  I could go on and on but I think my space on this forum has reached its capacity. So I will end off with a piece of advice to all the singles out there: Please stay positive!! I know it’s hard but it will help you and will help those around you, TRUST ME!

  This will definitely give me something to talk about on my next date!!
  Hoping to hear only good news,
  GMAR CHASIMA TOVA

• single aidel maidel

  To: maidel, and in the same boat…hope were not sinking – 100% on the points.

  I am a good girl. I do my chitas. I daven. I work. I learn. I am tznius. I love to do hachnasas orchim, help kallahs, make meals for friends (after giving birth, etc). I am well adjusted, normal (some even say "chassidish" and a shadchan even told me her favorite trait about me is that I am "emesdik"!). I am strong on my feet (not a push-over), I have a good head on my shoulders, and I have a conscience. I am not perfect, I know what my chisronis are and I work on them constantly.

  I come from a great loving, warm, caring, respectful home. We are all very close, and speak on the phone daily. But – my parents are divorced!

  I feel as soon as I tell anyone about my this, I immediately have to go on the defensive because the look on their face says it all! The defensive: it happened just a few years ago, they never fought, it was very amicable, they grew apart, etc.

  Before I can prove any stereotype wrong, I can sense that it’s over. All of a sudden, all they* know of me, everything we’ve experienced together, everything they know about me – it seems as if it’s tainted. As if I am a nebach coming from a "broken home", ch’v’sh!
  But, nothing’s changed. I am still a good normal girl.
  I can’t even count how many shidduchim didn’t go through because nobody bothered to find out anything about ME – just the one fact of my parents no longer being married, is enough to nip the whole project in the bud. Why doesn’t anyone stop to ask any questions?
  (* – shadchonim, people in the community, families, etc)

• An -imperfect- shidduch

  These comments are all so interesting.
  My comment is so long that I have to submit it in two shifts. I hope it’s still approved.

  Here’s the thing. Now more then ever the following is true;
  no matter how wonderful marriage is, it is absolutely hard work.

  I don’t believe anybody can say they were fully prepared for all it entails before they got married no matter how perfect their parents’ home.
  In a time when we have all learned to expect instant gratification, marital challenges can be quite a shock.

  The importance of:
  -learning to communicate properly with a spouse is entirely different than with any other relationship before.
  -accepting a spouse’s weaknesses is entirely different than with any other relationship.
  -respecting a spouse’s opinions and values is entirely different than with any other relationship.
  -bending one’s own will for the sake of a spouse is entirely different than with any other relationship.
  -showing appreciation to a spouse is entirely different than with any other relationship.

  The wise parents are the ones who are impressing this upon their children.

  I am married for 20+ years to a wonderful man. Our marriage is successful but it has been hard, hard work and a looooooooooong road.
  We are that completely imperfect shidduch that you don’t want your children to go on.

  He comes from yichus and grew up with great mesirus nefesh exhibited in his home.
  When we go to Crown Heights it’s a challenge to walk down any street because he has so many, many friends that date back to his single days or childhood.

  He seems to know everybody, everybody’s parents, grandparents, siblings, etc. and most of them he calls close friends.
  Plus, he’s probably related by blood or marriage to 75% of the people he sees.

  Had any of those people been called for a reference in his single years they would have heard that he had a heart of gold and would give a person the shirt off his back or get up at 4 in the morning to help you in the winter if you needed a jump start.
  They would have said that he is a hard, hard worker and has tremendous yiras shamayim.
  They would have said that everybody loves him.
  His main chasoron, they might have told you, is that he doesn’t have zitz fleish.

  I come from a religiously unaffiliated, divorced, remarried, now baal tshuva family. I won’t even mention the other ‘imperfections’ I threw into the pot.

  It is entirely G-d’s miracles that made this shidduch, as a regular shadchan would never have suggested us for each other.
  And no, we had not met before our first shidduch date.

  But guess what. It wasn’t just me that brought challenges to our marriage.
  In fact, if anything, it’s been me that’s been unfailingly committed.
  I’m the one that’s pushed for counseling when we needed to learn some more marriage skills.

  You see, I believe that how a person responds and handles their history and baggage is more important than the history and baggage itself.

  It turns out, that not having zitz fleish might mean that people who want the best for the child might come down hard on a him thinking he was just being lazy. Harshly. Intensely. For years. Out of love (really).

  Guess how a person who’s been raised like that thinks children should be dealt with when they don’t live up to expectations.

  Guess what.
  Turns out that a person who’s been raised like that, no matter how many friends he may have, and no matter how self assured his demeanor, might still see himself as a failure.

  Guess who is the person most likely to experience the many effects of a person’s low self esteem. (Think anger, depression, tough facades, etc)

  None of these things were particularly obvious when my husband was single.

  I present this as just one example of an aspect of someone that NOONE would have ever, ever, ever thought to bring up when asked for a reference.
  Yes, they would have mentioned the lack of zitz fleish, but only in reference to his learning. The rest of it would never have been forseen.

  (Please read the second half of this letter that I will submit separately.)

• An -imperfect- shidduch

  (continued from previous submission)

  IN OTHER WORDS:

  No matter how great a person’s yichus, and no matter how many references say wonderful things about a person, there are still going to be issues that no one foresaw.
  There are still going to be facets of a person that don’t show up until they are married.

  AND THAT’S OK!!!!!

  Just make sure that your kid knows that a wonderful, rewarding marriage is built on hard work and effort, like anything of value.
  It doesn’t come automatically because you have the right last name.
  And it wouldn’t be a bad idea to ask about a potential shidduch’s inclination to work on him/herself.

  Ironically, my being from a divorced home meant that I considered that marriage should be sacred and every effort should be made to make it succeed.
  Being from a previously non religious family meant that I was aware of, and considered accpetable, the benefits outside help could bring.

  I want to make it clear that I certainly brought my own baggage to the marriage and my husband has been amazing.
  I am a very lucky woman and he tells me every day that he is a lucky man.

  Go ahead and try the ‘imperfect’ shidduch and know that MOST IMPORTANTLY you need to remind your single that a good marriage can’t be taken for granted, it’s not easy but it is well worth every effort they make.
  And then make sure they know how to get the skills they might need when a challenge comes up.

  Now, I think I’m going to go show my husband some appreciation.

• been there...

  STOP CHECKING INTO EVERYTHING…. you are ruining shidduchim for your kids,,, your friends… and yourselves. As long as the person is HEALTHY just go out. You will find everything out on your own. Shimshon Stock, who made over 350 shidduchim gave me this advice about my kids… AND IT WORKED!

• trying to help some girls

  There is another thing i want to bring up. There are many girls who go out without knowing clearly who they are and what kind of boy they are looking for. I know one girl that took a few years just until she worked out what kind of boy she wanted.

  Another thing is that some girls now a days have in mind some picture perfect boy like they picture from hollywood and instead of looking for compatability, they are also looking their dream boy! Of course you there has to be hamshocash halev but I think many expect more than that right away, what they see in the movies R"L

  One more thing is that there is too much discussion amongst the girls(maybe boys too) about their dates and their opinions. There is absolutely NO reaseon for the whole apartment and all your friends to know who you went out with, his name and also your opinion. just because your friend thought he was not cool or nerdy… does not mean that he is not good for you. People get knocked off very easily because of what their friends think.

  Gemar chasima tova

• Chabad singles website

  Just a comment about the Chabadmatch.org dating site. Seemed like such a great idea – finally a "frumster" just for us!! Unfortunately everyone’s too embarassed to sign up so there’s really nowhere near enough "selection". Some shadchanim only signed on as such so they could see everyone’s personal details for their sister/daughter, etc. I know singles that signed up and never got one single offer in months and months – I’m talking about "normal" and attractive people. The one positive thing was that at least it was free – supported by donors and advertisers. Now they want $15 a month!!!!! Do some work first – make a bunch of shidduchim – show us that you are successful, then maybe more people will be willing to pay and sign up. I know that frumster charges, but for the non-Chabad world it is so worth it – there are literally thousands of singles waiting for you to sign up so they can contact you – some Chabad but nowhere near enough. Come on Chabadmatch – it was such a wonderful idea, but you really need to figure out ways to get more sign ups and get rid of the charges – at least for now.

• Girl in Shidduchim

  To sum it all up:

  Stop blaming everybody else – parents, Shadchanim, teachers, references, friends, the "system", or the singles themselves…

  If you’re married, sit down with your spouse and DO SOMETHING! Every young couple should be able to think of many Shidduchim. You can make a difference!

  Remember: Just because you are fortunate to be married, doesn’t mean you can forget about your friends who supported you until you got there. Show some concern!

  May our collective efforts result in many new homes being built, amen!

• Gmar Chasimah tovah

  May hashem bless all who are looking for a shiddach to find it quickly without "agmas nefesh".

  and may evreybodey be zoche to build a binayan adai ad! with all the rebbes brochos.
  Gmar chasimah tovah to kalall yisroel.
  Moshiach now!!!!!!

• girl

  it’s so not ackwars to get a ride from the bochur and go in his car, what I think IS TERRIBLEEEEEEEEE when the poor all dressed up, madke up and hair do girl has to stand on some fara way corner and wait for the guy to come pick her up..how disgusting and low is that… i think u all know who stand on corners… WE SHOULD STOP THAT TODAY!!!!! who cares if yente ppl see a guy waiting outside ur house?? u dont want ppl to see you.. then maybe meet at the hotel or wherever u go… BUT STANDING ON A CORNER IS VERY VERY DEGRADING!!!!!!! i had to do it… and right there while waiting decided I wasn’t going out again with that guy…think about it, give it a thought.

• dont know any better

  The best part of it all: your out on your 5th or 6th date, and you getting to know eachother pretty well…and you like eachother–obviously because your continuing to see eachother..and then kaboom!–he tells you "oh yeah, i spoke to my friend and he told me if you dont feel "that" connection by the 5th date then its not bashert, so you know…"! The funniest part is: that guys friend is in HIS late 20’s and still not married/marriage minded! Fyi: your friends who are in the same boat as you do not know any better!!

• Lazer Avtzon

  let’s face the facts.
  1) Parents and children are more often than not, not on the same page and want different things.
  2) There is too mcu gossip and sharing of information and what works for one may not work for the other and vice versa.
  3) Boys and girls know more about each other than the Shadchonim themsleves in many instances.
  4)Most people don’t know who or what they are looking for until they find it.
  5) There is a great lack of compatiable Mashpiim in this community.
  6) marriage counselling is still considered taboo, but schools should teach relationship and communication skills throughout life, but especially in high school and seminary or Semicha programs.
  7) Most Shadchanim are overworked and can’y give Shiduchim their full attention even with the best of intentions.
  8) Speed dating and website matches might work for some but won’t get the Rabonim’s approval in a closed society such as ours.
  9) As my mother ob"m used to say, everything in life is a ZERO (0), looks, yichus, learning etc, but if you don’t have a ONE (1) in front, meaning that the person is a "mentch", than all the ZEROS in the world won’t amount to anything, so look for chrachter first.
  10) Stigmas are what they are, it is very hard to change that, but that is not a reason to complainand feel rejected, rather convince yourself that whoever is not willing to overlook your "stigmas" over your "great personality" etc is eventually the loser and that you are ultimately better off without this narow minded person or family.
  11) Marriage is not an aspirin. While getting engaged takes off some heat for a while, the obligations and committment needed to make a marriage work for the long run far outweigh any immediate relief of being able to say, "I’m engaged".
  12) The sensation of being engaged or "catching that special person" only lasts until the next announcement comes over the wires, sometimes a few minutes, sometimes a few hours or days, but by the time you climb off cloud nine, you are yesterday’s news, no one cares or remembers, and you are there alone to fend for yourself.
  13) The amount of eliglble Bachurim and girls of age is staggering, and as the community grows, the numbers will only get worse. At today’s numbers, more than 1,200 Shiduchim have to made immediately from amongst boys and girls livnig in Crown Height alone, without taking into consideration all the eliglble boys and girls from other out of town Lubavitch communities where they work and/or live.

  My suggestion:
  We need a real Shiduchim agency, with several full time paid Shadchanim, with staff who truly know the different communities within our so called "united" community to work full time and together as a team to make Shiduchim.
  Interviews need to be done with the parents and with the prospective children together and independantly to make sure the Shadchonim know more about who the people are and what they are looking for. Resumes and references alone are not worth the paper they are written on.
  It must be set up in a non competitive way so that staff help each other in suggesting names, rather than everyone trying to make the deal by themselves.
  it will require seed money to get off the ground and can cover itself based on success fees but it will have to prove itself first, and this is the main reason it hasn’t taken off yet.

  Remember, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and unless we put our resources into this and tackle the problem as a community and not as frustrated and/or overwhelmed parents or individuals, there is no other solution.

  My children are still young, and while I have more than two dozen nieces and nephews of eliglble age, I have no need to remain anonymous so if anyone agrees with me and would like to get involved, please feel free to contact me at director@gjarn.org.

  Lazer Avtzon

• Just an opinion

  Observer:

  Please pull your head out of the sand. How dare you shun children of divorced homes? Why don’t you look around at the neighborhood and see who we’ve become. There are so many families facing intermarriage, drugs and children practicing lewd behavior right under out noses. These situations are rampant, even within the "Gezhe, Spitz, Yichus" families. Would you say that a sibling of these "problems" also shouldn’t have the chance at marriage? Divorce is just one type of unique situation.

  Get over the nazi mentality of elitist selection. Problems will only be avoided by communication, no matter where you’re from or who your family is.

  You can’t predict what tomorrow brings so why shut someone out just because they have a "blemish" in your opinion. You can have 2 families that seem perfect on the outside but you have no idea what’s going on behind closed doors. It’s very unfair to punish someone just because their family’s issues are aired out to the public.

  Think before you speak in public.

• Reader

  Dear Imperfect- shidduch,

  I appreciate your post. A shalom bayis lecture from you would be valuable and realistic-I would love to hear more! Thanks to you, and to all the posters, for being brave enough, (even though done anonymously!) to speak about these important issues.

• viewer

  to "my comment is too long":

  it’s so true that there is simply a situation of imbalance between the boys and girls. not only in kamus but in eichus as well. it seems that the girls these days are so much better educated and mature than the boys. of course there are exceptions, but that’s the general fact.

  i’ve actually heard from shadchanim who said that girls should try to behave less mature on dates or the boys won’t want to marry them!!

  girls learn in school and in seminary about what it takes to have a healthy marriage, what it takes to make relationships work, what to look for in a husband… even how to go through the actual dating process.

  what do the boys learn? they learn gemaras about the details of a divorce (gittin) and other things that are so un-practical! that is not to say that they shouldn’t learn torah, for obviously every moment spent learning torah is a mitzvah, and it’s a boy’s full-time obligation. but can’t they learn things that are a little more relevant?

  bochurim should be taught in yeshiva things that parallel what girls are taught. they should learn about good communication (MANY boys lack this, especially those raised in the lubavitch system. communication they learned from their teachers is predominantly yelling and manipulation) and other things that make a marriage workable, and they should learn about the actual process of going out (MANY boys have no clue about the halachos and minhagim – the girls have to teach them what is right and what is wrong so they end up having to tell them what to do even before the marriage starts. this is even with basics like not touching while the couple is engaged).

  to "an -imperfect- shidduch":

  thank you for sharing your story. you have shown us by example that it takes so much to make a marriage successful. having a "model" date just isn’t what it’s all about.

• Kayla

  Sometimes, you should listen to yourself, and listen to what you want…and ignore your friends. They weren’t with you on the date with that guy/girl, they don’t know who he/she is, or what they are like, so how can they give you advice?
  Its important…that you make the right choices…you can’t rely on someone who doesn’t know the other person! It just doesn’t make any scence! I agree with don’t know any better!

• anonymous

  im only 19 but i can tell you that all i every hear from my close minded parents is"how do you think you are ever going to get a shiduch" parents are woried about silly little things and themselves i.e. parents want good mechutens…..if they’re going to see eachother once in
  a blue moon why should that affect the marriage of there sons or daughters? parents should not be so selfish when it comes down to shiduchim great matches always fail because of some problem with the family etc..every detail should be investigated not just who the family is and where the single spent their time the last few years etc..i have lots of friends of mariagable age who cant get maried because of which yeshivas they went to or because they left yeshiva and started working early.people dont know these bochurims situation…if you want to really know a bochur just call his friends..GMAR CHASIMA TOVA!

• Anonymous

  For all those of you referring to premarital counseling and anything else relating to marriage, there is one of our advertisers “The S.H.A.L.O.M Workshop” whos motto is “Starting healthy and long lasting marriages”.

  I encourage everyone in the scene to check them out!

• eliezer

  A rabbi of a shul with several houndred people( not 770, but this should hapen there) after his request for quiet failed. He anounced that ther will be one exception, if a shiduch was being discused . the following weeks resulted in many shiduchim. Is it that hard to ask the person next to you if they knows someone for that friend?

• elchonon

  Wll I would perfer to keep my mouth shut on this issue, but I see alot of sterotyping already!!

  Brooklyn ave, I smoked for 7 years, a pack a day everyone knows this.. I quit with support from my mother and knowing that I would feel better without smoking (headaches, coughing etc..) Some people will never quit.. others need a good push and support.. Many of my FFB and now BT friends quit smoking.

  In my 5 years living her in eretz yisrael I have met thousands of thousands of people, I have hosted hundreds and hundreds of guys… most are good people.. the mentch is the one that uses up the milk and goes to the store to buy more (you know who you are!)

  Its hard to look at a guy and jusdge, many guys I know look like bums but are actualy on the way up.. many chasidish guys are on the way down r’l.

  I myself am judged for physical aspects for which I dont blame people, it does not bother me.

  But yes people are too judgmental and blinded, I have way too many single friends 23+, start looking at the etzem not the chitzoniyos!

• hits home

  hi i just wanted to share with you my story. whoever thimks that it was rosy years ago, let me tell you different. 20 years ago, i was involved in shidduchim. i had a blemish (in the family) and many boys did not want to go out because of this. what hurt me most, was the boys that came back with reasons why they wouldn’t go out…as if they were perfect. the moral of all this is that bh i am married to an amazing husband for 20 years, who can put any of these guys in his back pocket. bh he didn’t care about this issue, and he reminds me all the time how thankful he is, that he didn’t listen to some people that had negative comments. my point is..to all you guys and girls out there..i feel your pain..but just know that there is someone for everyone, and those that turn you down..laugh them off..because who knows who they will get..most probably a lesser catch than you, like some of the boys that rejected me..guess what..i now have the last laugh. may this year find true happiness for all that need it!1

• ANONYMOUS

  0. I am in total agreement with this young bochur but i would like to make some points. I think that this generation is creating some of its own problems.unfortunately, people are very influenced by the outside world and have goyishe ideas which they get from the internet, videos, magazines etc. The main points of a frum, jewish home and chassidic values are missing. If looks, height and waist size are the focus,then there is a big problem. Also,years ago dating was very private. Only the parents, shadchen and perhaps a close friend knew and of course the rebbe if there were questions or issues.?today every body knows who is going out with whom. Either the boy or girl is discussed by the friends and alot of lashon hara is spoken unfairly and for know good reason. I think so many shidduchim are affected by this and people are not getting a fair chance. These issues can be fixed only by the young chevra themselves. We need the help of the eibishter but we also have to do our part. May klall yisroel share in each others simchas. Good luck to everyone

  CHI EDIT: in the future Do not type full sentences in capital letters, I will deny the comment just for that.

• anonymous

  The whole shidduch system sucks. Shadchanim are useless, they just give you random names of peopple, that is if you can get through to them. You spend your time looking into these suggestions only to realise not one or very few are anything like you or what you’re looking for. And this is even after you have ‘met’ the shadchan.

  If you’re from Crown heights at least you can say eventually the right one will probabbly come along. But what about people from out of town or overseas? They come in to date, so don’t have unlimited time, and they can either spend al their time dating the wrong people or spend their time weeding through the names that they have been given to see if there is anyone that actually sounds like a compatible person. I have been on numerous dates and all i could think about is what were these shadchans thinking? And the references are just as bad. I try to do my own research because references will usually give glowing reports on the person. Whether its 100% tru or not.

• Yaakov Schmidt

  To all anonymous commentators:

  You don’t even realize it, but your anonymous comment is a direct result of your frum ‘shidduch-centered’ culture which you’ve been brought up in.

  On any normal website such as Jpost.com, cnn.com etc., people actually write their real, full name (and not ‘Distraught mother been there done that’, ‘girl in the know’, ‘bochur who doesn’t care brooklyn ave’ etc.)

  Hmmmmn… Why not? Because people REALLY couldn’t care less of what you think about them! Normal people don’t make calculations like: If I sign my name, people will know that I exist, will do research about me and my grandmother, and then take me or my friends and my cousins references off their ‘list’ (mental or literal) because I wrote an entire comment on Crownheights.info (oy vey!) and then Charlie won’t come to my L’chaim.

  So, in addition to all the great things that have been said above, people have to stop adding to the existing stigmas and just plain nonsense.

  Be self confident, straight forward, speak for yourself, know your shortcomings and your talents and get real.

  Yaakov Schmidt,
  San Fransisco, CA

• mom in the parsha

  I am an out of town mother of a son. Names are given by people who neither the girl, nor my child. A real shot in the dark. Even ‘on paper’ what seems a match isn’t always. Research helps somewhat, but y9ou have to often rely on strangers to describe another stranger to you. I have bad things about good people and good things about inappropriate people, so I don’t have great confidence in research, not do I feel I even know what I should be asking! I’m told to heavily rely on friends as references but they often lack the maturity to know how to respond. As for the dating itself, it is very costly to fly in, rent a car, find a place to stay and spend on a date. Therefore, I hold back somewhat.
  Bottom line though, is my complete trust that there is a zivug there and the right words will be said, and the wrong words will not be said when the right one at the right time comes along. Of course I haven’t been looking for years yet, so I can say that……….

• The light-s turning green

  This point has been mentioned above, but I think it can be mentioned again.
  The boys and girls themselves are a part of the problem; Within the basement community of Crown Heights names are flung around. Everyone knows whose been out with all their friends and thier friends friends. A name is suggested and the boy/girl throws it out straight away because her/his friends friend went out with him/her and s/he’s a nerd/farchinyokt/not chassidishe enough….
  Another issue is when, in large families every sibling has their opinion of every name suggested, not allowing the suggestion a chance to be looked into by the parent!
  And please everyone stop knocking the parents. Parent swork hard to raise you and worry about you every minute of every day. They too are human and entitled to make mistakes. If you feel your parents are not on the same page as you, initiate the discussion. Stop hiding from your parents, you’re hurting yourself!!!
  Hatzlacha to all of us,
  May this year truly be Shnas Sach Chasunos

• aok

  Coming from a BT perspective (I am one), the "major" issue of divorce, while perhaps different for FFB (I wouldn’t know) is just another expression of ha-shem’s infinity; a person grows up in a "dysfunctional" family, parents divorce and yet he/she finds his/her way to frumkeit and Chassidus and they really get it, they get hat it’s all about, they know things aren’t perfect and that there will be difficulties, and now they have Chassidus to help them. How much more so then for an FFB who is aware of these things and has learned them from a much earlier age.

  It’s always worth asking for clarification esp. if just reading from a profile (e.g., chabadmatch etc.) or just hearing from one person something that doesn’t sit well with you. We learn in Shuchan Aruch to be limud z’chus on people, how is this any different esp. after hearing it from only one person?

• Full of Yichus

  You know what’s funny…..my whole life I was told that since I am the daughter of a Shliach, and the granddaughter of a Shliach, and have yichus up to wazoo then it would be easy for me to find a shidduch………..well, i’m 29, unmarried and in the exact same boat as everyone else. I feel that the only credence my "yichus" should have for me, is that I come from a good solid backround….thats it!!! It doesn’t make me any less or more of a person whatsoever!!

• -Older- girl and hurt-in-the-process

  woah – looks like so many people have what to say, and why. It’s all true – I’m an ‘older’ girl, and the whole shidduchim system is hard. I’m an out-of-towner, and I really feel that I have to constantly make phone calls to friends and shadchanim – if i don’t, they seem to forget and I feel like the only person that really cares and feels desperate about the situation is me alone. And it happened to me twice that a bochur ‘heard’ something not so positive about me – not saying what- and they didn’t even want to call references to get a full picture. I don’t even know who gives neg information about ppl they know, or don’t really know obviously, but it’s really disgusting. People have to be objective and not judgemental.

• divorced mother

  What about those of us who are single after being divorced or widowed? It’s hell for us, too. I have had every shadchan i have ever spoken to slam the phone down on me because I have (horrors! how terrible!) more than two children …. And the websites are full of weirdos. What about people like us? My ex husband was violent. Do I and others like me have to be punished for this all our lives? There are loads of divorced women like me trying to start our lives again. We are normal, educated women who have been through a lot. We are also part of the singles crisis, and no one cares about us.No one has mentioned our plight, but it is very real. Not every divorced person is messed up, and neither are our children.