Congresswoman Yvette Clarke, who has been representing New York's 11th district - which includes Crown Heights - for the past 8 years, seems to have some communist sympathies.
Op-Ed: Is Our Congresswoman a Communist?
Congresswoman Yvette Clarke, who has been representing New York’s 11th district – which includes Crown Heights – for the past 8 years, seems to have some communist sympathies.
She is seen in the video below giving a speech about tea party opposition to Obama’s healthcare law. She says “There will always be those in our civil society who, for whatever reason, feel like something is being taken away from them when we give to others.”
She seems incapable of understanding why anyone would oppose increased government spending in order to “give to others.”
Does she have any idea where the money comes from?
Apparently she believes – like a good Marxist – that all wealth is created by the government, and all she is trying to do is have it distributed more fairly. Why would anyone object to fairness!?
She even boasts about being “well educated” in New York City’s public schools.
This would all be much funnier if we didn’t owe China $15 trillion dollars.
Why is she representing us?
She has a terrible record on Israel, in fact, according to some agencies, she has one of the worst records in congress on Israel.
It’s a tremendous embarrassment to our community that our representative has such a bad record a issue that we care so much about.
Yeah I said it....
“Apparently she believes – like a good Marxist – that all wealth is created by the government…”
First, you should realize that being a Marxist, and being a Communist are two different things. (Imagine someone lumping you and the cracks from neturei karta into the same group because you both wear hats and have beards.)
Second, perhaps you should-and this is just a thought- actually READ some of Marxs’ work before attributing something to him that is so false that it’s utterly laughable. But I know how you all hate reading, so try googling “means of production.”
I’m willing to bet that you’d agree to a tax hike if tomorrow morning, the President decided to attack Iran and went on television pleading for a take hike to fund the war. Do everyone a favor, stop davening, quit eating kosher, quit keeping shabbos, etc. You’ve already renounced G-d and everything Holy, you might as well quit faking the rest.
wow
Those who work and PAY taxes and don’t receive medicare, section 8, food stamps etc. raise your hands:
***one or two hands appear,,,,***
Oh well, there will always be those people, who for whatever reason don’t understand what it is like to work for a libing and have a quarter to a third of their paycheck go to taxes to pay for the rest of the neighborhood’s entitlements…
McCarthy
Not this McCarthy nonsense again.
What Could We Do About It?
Our district is a majority-black district, even Marty Markowitz considered running against her because of here horrible policies.
We would need to find a strong pro-Israel Black candidate (someone like Alan West), if there is any chance in unseating her.
http://www.politicker.com/2…
Isreal Record
What about her terrible record on Israel that you previously reported about?
She MUST go!!!
http://www.crownheights.inf…
http://www.crownheights.inf…
commie pinko
blah blah blah, we yidden were the ones who started the whole communist thing anyway
Information Anybody?
Does anybody know who is running or if there are any pro-Israel candidates?
If there are we should vote to remove here.
Anybody know anything about this woman, Sylvia Kinard?
http://www.politicker.com/2…
to #2
Considering that you are such a genius, perhaps you can explain the correlation between what you were blabbing about and Judaism / religion? Why should anyone stop davening, stop keeping kosher, etc. just because you decided they are faking it based on a presumption on your part regarding the way they would handle a tax increase due to a theoretical war with Iran.
Yes
She definitely is a communist. Shame she’s in congress but virtually the entire democratic party are communists as are even some Republicans sadly.
where the money comes from
The Rebbe urged Shirley Chisolm to have the government do something for the poor and hungry and food stamps and WIC were developed. Don’t you think that the Rebbe would want people who are too poor to afford medical insurance to have access to good medical care?
Maybe it should be seen why America owes so much money to China instead of the government training Americans and buying American-made goods!
As Jews, we know that the money comes from Hashem’s blessings. America needs to gain Hashem’s blessings by turning to to seven laws of Noah, by helping the poor, and by supporting Israel.
Howard
She is an absolute disgrace. Why any decent person would vote for/support her boggles the mind.
to 11
I want to see a video or signed letter of the Rebbe stating that. Just because some guy claims the Rebbe told me once… means nothing. I’m willing to bet the Rebbe had nothing to do with WIC. And if the Rebbe urged government in a generic way to help the poor, the best way to do that is diminish the size of government. My personal opinion is that it is a made up story. Also, government more often destroy than build efficiency. So with best of intentions, healthcare in the US can be destroyed. Not to mention the devious elements of the bill that is antithetical to Torah like death panels, abortion etc.
hello to #11
you are being fooled. There will NOT be better healthcare under Obamacare. There will be longer waiting times, no doctors-because who would want to be study and become doctor when the pay is low and the list goes on!
People will only work hard if they feel there will be proper profits at the end of it. That is why there needs to be free enterprise ant the Gov’t needs to let live!!!!
p.s. take a good look at all the countries where the Gov’t takes over. They are all POOR.
How dare you
Chanina Sperlin and Eli Slavin told us to vote for this lady and you criticize her? Eli needs a job and Chanina needs pictures, how dare you open your mouth? Who cares about Israel? Who cares about Communists?
Cuban Lubavitcher
If she’s indeed a commie, and she’s definitely representing the right district.
After all it has been a well known fact that the last two bastions of Bolshevik Communism are Lubavitch and Cuba ;-)
Milhouse
If you really want an answer to the question, the easiest way is to look at the membership list of the Congressional Progressive Caucus: http://cpc.grijalva.house.g… Sure enough, Clarke is listed. That pretty much settles it. There are no non-communists on that list.
#2, Marxism *is* communism. Communism is the political program that emerges from Marx’s philosophy. I suppose one could be a communist without being a Marxist, having arrived at the same conclusion by a different path, but one certainly can’t be a Marxist without being a communist. There were, after all, communist societies before Marx; they didn’t believe in all of Marx’s original nonsense such as his labor theory of value, his “science” of history, his class warfare, or his atheism or antisemitism, but they were communists all the same, with the same horrible results. But nowadays pretty much the only path to communism is via Marxism; so communists — besides their evil practical agenda — have all that other baggage as well.
At any rate, I no more have to read Das Kapital to know what he taught than I have to read Mein Kampf to know what Hitler taught. I know enough to know that it’s not worth reading, that the philosophy is evil and therefore the practical results are always inevitably evil too. As a certain other philosopher said, “By their fruits you shall know them”. As Lubavitchers we know well that communism is: “she’al ovicho veyagedcho”, and lest you imagine that the Soviet implementation was in any way unique you can ask any survivor of communism from anywhere it has been implemented and they have the same stories.
Oh, and Shirley Chisholm had nothing to do with either Food Stamps or WIC. They’re both from before her time.
Milhouse
#4, What McCarthy nonsense? In what way was McCarthy wrong?
mendoza
this is not the form to knock her on .. there is a place for this but 4sure not in public ,, this whole artical can come back to bite us in the ass
to 11
lets not confuse things. the rebbe suggested to use food supplies that were going to waste, to be distributed to the poor. everyone, including a fanatic libertarian like myself, would agree to that. its not taking anything from anyone, rather helping others at no cost to anyone.
what these democrats are saying is to TAKE from the rich, and give to the poor. that’s stealing.
to #13
to #13: http://www.chabad.org/there…
Toshav
Communism (“fair share”…“Everybody is the same”) and everything she talks about are very nice in theory BUT never worked out in realty.
You want proof? What better proof can I give you other then history. You want to know the future? Study the past!
RMHersey23
To date , there has yet to be 1 single shred of evidence to prove the accusations she just made regarding “racial epithets , cursing , spitting and everything else”. Pelosi , walking arm in arm , was intimidation of the tallest order. I look forward to Yvette Clark being beaten in November.
12grace
Interesting to note how these communists so lovingly have their greedy hands in our pockets, steal some of OUR money for themselves and give the rest of OUR money to their favorite people or organizations.
MiketheMarine
We need a new test for politicians. It needs to be hard. I’ve got a proposal for the first question. How about……
Where does all of the money the government spends come from?
really?
allan west crazyness continues…most ppl here dont even know what McCarthyism is and what it entailed..
I hope she fails
Rush Limbaugh
“January 16th of 2009, Wall Street Journal calls, ”We want 400 words on what your hopes for Obama are as this historic new presidency is inaugurated.“ And they told me they were gonna be asking a lot of other people to submit 400-word little mini-essays, gonna publish them in the op-ed pages of the Wall Street Journal.
I wrote back and I said, ”I don’t need 400 words or 200 words. I can do it in four words: ‘I hope he fails.’“ And reactions were predictable. But everybody who criticized me knew exactly what I meant. They knew it then; they know it now. I hoped Obama’s agenda would fail. He’s a liberal. He’s a socialist. He’s a Marxist. I knew what he was going to do. I knew what his policies were going to be, and I didn’t want them to succeed. I believe in free market economics, freedom in general, pursuit of happiness. I didn’t want Obama to succeed implementing his agenda because it would be detrimental to the country. Everybody knew that, but it was too big an opportunity for ’em to let it go so they had to demagogue it, criticize it.”
excuse me
but how many families in CH use food stamps or section 8, i assume ALOT, everyone online at empire kosher uses a foodstamp card and than shovels their tons of food into their fancy cars! according to all these comments and suggestions that comes from communism (instead of aid to the needy as normal critical thinking ppl would say)…i hereby declare we give up all our foodstamps and apartments!!!
out of context
To #13
Very nice. But thats not talking about tax payers dollars, that was extra food. Your taking that video/interview totally out of context.
Today its a whole lot different. The government is spending out of central, all in the name of “helping the poor” or “spreading the wealth”. It’s not right to TAKE my money by force in the name of “helping the poor”. Let me keep MY money and I’ll help the poor.
Just look right here in Crown Heights, the government gave millions of our tax dollars to an organization called the Crown Heights Jewish Community Council, to help and assist the needy of our community. Where and how has this money been spent? I’ll tell you this, NOT on the poor and needy of the community.
to 21
Yes I’ve seen that clip. With all due respect to Luchins, I don’t believe that story. I really enjoyed his talk at the kinus, but people can make things up or even stories with a grain of truth can grow a beard. Other than erets yisroel, the Rebbe wasn’t a political activist or political advisor for domestic affairs, to the best of my knowledge. A Jem interview of a random guy isn’t a serious proof, especially being that it wasn’t something personal to him, like relaying a story with the Rebbe when he got married…
Milhouse
Anyone who doubts that the Congressional Progressive Caucus is communist needs only look at the CPUSA web site, and look for mentions of it there. For instance, in this report preparing for the 2002 elections: http://www.cpusa.org/report… we read that “Although this Caucus is not large enough to control the Congressional agenda or even to break into the media, the existence of this group […] provides an important lever that can be used to advance workers’ issues and move the debate to the left in every Congressional District in the country”. That says it all.
For more about the CPC, see http://www.discoverthenetwo…
Milhouse
#22, Communism is not nice in theory either. It’s stealing, which is against the seven mitzvos of Benei Noach. According to the Torah Robin Hood deserved to be executed.
Milhouse
Luchins is a liar. Plain and simple. He’s a Democrat, and all Democrats are liars. By the way, he’s also an enemy of Yonoson Pollard, and worked to keep him in prison.
Milhouse
#28, why on earth should we give something up, just because it shouldn’t exist in the first place? Food stamps shouldn’t exist, and we shouldn’t be taxed for it, but so long as they’re being given out, and someone qualifies for them, it would be insane to turn them down on principle. What possible good could that do? What kind of an idiot turns down something that he is offered? As the Rebbetzin a“h said, ”mich hot men oisgelernt, az m’git nemt men”.
Milhouse
If someone mugs you and then has rachmonus and gives you back $10 for cab fare, do you refuse it?!
Critic
Slavin a member of the CH Community council??? Since when? Don’t we have enough losers the likes of Sperlin on the inept CC? Hashem yishmor?
Nobama and No Rebbe Exaggerations
1) Chisholm only expanded the food stamps program.
2) Chisholm only said that the Rebbe inspired her with his optimism and told her not to lose hope because she ended up on the agriculture committee or whatever it is called even though she knew nothing of the subject.
3) The surplus food distribution and food stamps are two different things altogether.
As for this Clarke, what do you expect in this district but a leftist? Lubavitch has no voting bloc of enough size to support a decent candidate.
Look at chjcc
The chjcc recieve from government
Over. Ten. Million dollar a year
All of it pay only to chalila the mamzer and his cronies
The PEOPLE dons see a red cent
The Rebbe on Socialism
1)
There is a letter from the Rebbe in Igros to the Forverts newspapaer that “anybody who believes socialism and torah cannot work together speaks out of ignorance”.
2)
The shulchan Aruch and the Gemara avow the mandate that the poor must be housed fed and clothed and given health care. The word “Koifin” – forced, is used to describe the means to get this money if people don’t pay.
Dudi Slavin
Slavin is a mooch
LONG TIME NO SEE...
lookin good Eli!
To 26
Must be Oholei Torah and Beis Rivkah didn’t teach about it. So then we should learn about it on our own. Visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wik…
CHLEAKS.COM
How much charity has Congresswoman Yvette Clarke given from her own personal pocket book?
Let’s see her tax returns.
Its funny and sad at the same time that when it comes to personal charity it is the Republicans that take a lead. Democrats/Liberals or whatever name they go by these days, are very generous with everybody else money but fail big time when it comes from giving from their own pockets.
Sources
To #39 The Rebbe on Socialism:
You claim there is a letter, why not source it?
If you don’t know the source, don’t post until you find it!
any other non fact accusations?
terrorist? atheist? racist? socialist? murderer? rapist? nazi?
Nobody
#42,
Wikipedia is a great tool – for uncontroverisal subjects. McCarthyism isn’t one of them.
There were two problems with McCarthy. One was that he gave Communism a good name. This is unforgivable. He did this by going over the top and accusing wildly and pretending he had evidence he didn’t have.
The second is that he did all of this for an agenda of personal aggrandizement.
However, there was enough communist infiltration into the government and media that some of his most outlandish accusations turned out to be true. Ane he fought for a good cause.
to 39
Volume and page please?
Milhouse
#39, The mitzvah of Tzedokoh is part of Ahavas Yisroel. Beis Din can force a yid to give tzedokoh, just as it can force him to put on tefillin. It has nothing to do with umos ho’olom. The gemoroh Bovo Basro 8b is clear that money given to aniyei akum is *not tzedokoh* and the donor gets no sechar for it.
talk radio
her#39 It seems that instead of learning the shulchan aruch and gemara, a lot of the posters here are learning the speeches of Limbaugh and talk radio.
The Rebbe wrote about the government, both American and Israeli, helping the poor.
How much money has the US spent in Iraq, on Palestinians, and others? Maybe that money could go to healthcare instead.
to number #40
Huh?
Dems ARE communists
Mr. 42: McCarthy was 101% on the money about communist prevalence in the democrat party. And Obama’s election proves it. Google “Obama’s marxist professors”.
The Rebbe on Socialism
Source for the Rebbe’s view on socialism is in Likutei Sichos,30, Hoisufois, Shavuos. It is online here http://www.chabadlibrary.or…
Milhouse, go argue with the Rebbe.
The Rebbe on Socialism
Milhouse, The Shulchan Aruch is referring not to tzedakah but to taxes for the poor and uses the word “koifin”. I believe this is one of Judaism’s great features which can be expanded universally.
Nobody
#49
How much will the federal government spend on Iraq this year (2012)? I hope when researching the answer you get beyond left wing talking points.
Kol HaPosel Bmumo Posel.
Hershel Moss, Crown Heights
Political issues must be approached with humility. See:
http://www.chabad.org/there…
Contact me to discuss, please.
718.308.7458.
The Rebbe on Socialism
Milhouse, in the link of comment number 55 the Rebbe advised food programs that would raise taxes.
The Rebbe on Socialism
Sorry, it’s Likutei Sichos 33. The link is correct though.
to 52
Please translate. I speak yiddish, but that was ultra sophisticated yiddish so please give an HONEST translation (not summary) to that letter and not merely post the link and say check mate. Thank you.
Milhouse
#46, can you name even one person whom McCarthy falsely accused?
Milhouse
#52, where in that letter does he endorse socialism? On the contrary, all he says is that if someone is a socialist it’s not necessary for him to abandon shmiras hamitzvos, and he had known many socialists who didn’t, until the real socialism arrived.
#53, what are you talking about? What siman does this appear in? Hilchos tzedokoh! How can you say it isn’t about the mitzvoh of tzedokoh?
Milhouse
#56, according to Luchins.
Nobody
#56, did you even read the link? The Rebbe said no such thing. The Rebbe said to find creative ways to distribute America’s excess of food to the poor. Everything beyond that is your interpretation. I’m not saying the Rebbe would be against it (I don’t know, I do know the Rebbe approved of Government debt, not exactly a “movement conservative” position) but that link shows nothing about that question, certainly not about taxes (the Rebbe was speaking about excess – food in America had to be dumped and destroyed to keep the prices up).
To: “The Rebbe on Socialism” The link does not say what you purport it to say. Anyway, it seems to be speaking historically/descriptively (that there were frum Jews who saw no conflict and supported socialism) rather than normatively (i.e. the way something should be, that there is no conflict between the fundamental ideas of socialism and Torah).
Either way we have the famous answer from the Tzemach Tzedek about socialism vs. capitalism (that the Rebbe quotes in a few places) that each one has true points and untrue points. Their truth comes from Torah and the opposite part from klipah.
A thoughtful assesment
To clarify many misconceptions:
Socialism is not communism. Socialism can be democratic, however communism is a dictatorship. Historically, Socialism produces the most peaceful societies (see list of countries with lowest crime rates) communism on the other hand has a history of barbarism. Socialism allows for individual excellence, while communism takes away all individuality. Socialism allows for ownership while communism claims ownership of everything.
Capitalism is systematic selfishness “every man for himself” and “dog eat dog”. The “free-market” (especially in capitalist countries where the gvmt is controlled by industry) is anarchy.
By the view of capitalists who are against public-assistance: in Africa for example where the gvmt is rich and the society hungry, capitalists would then suggest that the gvmt is right to let it’s people starve no matter how much money it has, because according to republican capitalists it is not the responsibility of the gvmt to feed and clothe it’s starving and tattered subjects when they profit at their expense.
If trash pickup can be paid for with taxes and not be condidered theft, cannot trash prevention be paid for by taxes, or would you prefer your local suburban streets become the home of millions of homeless who live day to day by dumping your trash in your yard or alley to scavenge for morsels. Have we become so short-sighted?!
On a Torah note: every community is REQUIRED (by compulsory taxes if necessary) to provide for the basic needs of its impoverished. Every land owner is REQUIRED to allot a portion of his field for the poor to ‘help themselves’ to. And the poor are allowed and encouraged to do so without asking permission.
This is in addition to voluntary Tzedaka (which is not voluntary).
Judiasm/Torah is socialist.
It’s called ‘systematically’ caring for your neighbor, your fellow human being, in addition to voluntary Tzedaka.
I might add, while America is quite charitable comparatively, should we set an example that all assistance of the poor be only voluntary, for those countries which are not charitable to leave their poor to starve on the streets.
We institutionalize water-supply, plumbing, trash-pickup, road building, maintenance, fire-fighting, child protective services, should we not institutionalize basic life necessities for those who need it?!
In closure: There is NO crisis of jobs going unfilled. Any business owner can tell you that not only is every job filled, but the applications keep coming, and often by people OVER-qualified.
Therefore, regardless of whether those who are on gvmt assistance want to work or not, there are not enough jobs for them, even in America where there are more unnecessary jobs than in any other culture.
I may reiterate that the most peaceful countries are socialist, and for the most part those against socialism would rather their yacht be an extra five feet longer than to contribute to the basic HUMAN NEEDS of their country’s population. This surely breeds a society’s bloodlust.
They’ve gone from the colliseum (vehamavin yavin) to passive savagery of equal measure.
And no, giving charity does not exempt a citizen from the responsibility of sustaining their poor fellow citizens through the hand of their gvmt or a private sector institution assigned to the task by the gvmt.
Milhouse: I’m ashamed of your take on this issue. I thought you would know better.
The Rebbe on Socialism
I did not say the Rebbe endorses socialism. The almost exact translation of the end would be would be “If there still remain such who see a conflict of grand ideas [Torah and socialism], it comes, simply, from ignorance”.
So according to the Rebbe all those on this thread who believe socialism is against the Torah do so out of ignorance.
Ask your local rabbi for the Shulchan Aruch source. I Can’t find it online but it is 100% there. ironically enough the Reform refer to that Shulchan Aruch all over the net.
I may be wrong about it not being in Hilchos Tzedakah, but it is mandatory and coerced.
The Rebbe on Socialism
Milhouse,
You should ask McCarthy himself why he drank himself to death when his lunacies were exposed. The army hearings are a good place to start. Pick up any book on the subject.
Also, the famous story of the Rebbe requesting a politician to help the Chinese in the South Bronx would not fit into your prerequisites for valid charity. And the Rebbe should have advised Chisolm to only give food to the Jewish poor. Let the Rebbe know next time.
IT Professional
Capitalism has relegated education to a pursuit of a profession, instead of a puruit of knowledge.
Where truth is not in the interest of profit, it has been revised.
The result is an educational and professional system rife with lies and deceptions that benefit the profit-mongers.
We live in a profit-driven society, where quality is a rare commodity, even in our educational system.
Would you rather be a ‘human’ist or a ‘capital’ist?!
to 66
Amazing how you put it because, I see it very differently. Conservatives see education as an amassment of knowledge and it’s the liberals who have hijacked the term to mean sitting in a classroom and listening to a professor preach. When a “hilbilly” works on his farm, he amasses more knowledge than 90% of the undergrads in the US. And even the Grad students who go on to medical school, the hilbilly [though he will be more ignorant in sciences of anatomy] will know business a lot better than most medical students because he runs his farm which is a business. Thus, every day he gets more educated.
Milhouse
#63, Communism is just honest socialism. Socialists who pretend not to want communism are just not being honest.
Socialism is theft. Nobody has the RIGHT to take money away from one person for the benefit of another; how does calling that person a “government” change that? Governments derive their powers from the people, and exercise them on the people’s behalf; if no person or group of people in the country have a certain right, then how can they delegate that right to the government? If you have no right to take money from Reuven’s pocket and give it to Shimon, and I have no such right, and Levi has no such right, and certainly Shimon has no such right, then how can you and I and Shimon and Levi get together and delegate that right to Yehudah? Theft is wrong, no matter who says otherwise. It’s not wrong because of some external reason, it’s inherently wrong, just like murder and rape are inherently wrong.
What are governments for? Look in the American Declaration of Independence. Governments are instituted among men to secure for them the rights that Hashem has given them. In other words, governments exist for one purpose and one purpose only: to exercise our right of self-defense on our behalf, and protect us from being attacked by murderers, robbers, rapists, swindlers, foreign invaders, etc. It is no part of a government’s role to look after the poor. As James Madison said, “I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents”.
Capitalism is the only moral system of government; it is nothing more or less than how people behave when they are free of the fear of violence. If someone wants to be selfish, that is his business, not yours. If someone wants to be generous, that is also his business. If you feel sorry for someone, reach into your own pocket, or *persuade* other people to reach into theirs; the moment you reach into their pockets without permission, you are a thief and the government’s purpose is to help them defend themselves from you.
The Torah imposes all sorts of obligations on us yidden; we have many mitzvos asei that we must fulfil, and one of them is Tzedokoh. All the “social regulations” that you cite are part of that mitzvah, which in turn is part of the mitzvah of Ahavas Yisroel. Just as we must put on tefillin and eat matzoh, we must think of our fellow yidden as our own family, and provide for them as we would for our own family. Thus we have mitzvos of leket, shikchoh, pei’oh, maaser oni, gemilas chesed, etc., and beis din can enforce these on us *exactly* as it can force us to eat matzoh or put on tefillin. It has nothing to do with “social justice” or “tikun olam” or any of that Reform nonsense.
Milhouse
#65, what lunacies are you talking about? The only lunatic I see is you. Give me one name of an innocent person whom McCarthy accused. Or admit that he was right.
Milhouse
In any case, the question is whether Clarke is a communist, and it’s clear that she is. She’s an open member of the CPC, which the CPUSA openly says is part of its agenda. QED.
Allan West, who is a true oheiv yisroel, a supporter of yidden and of Eretz Yisroel not because it’s politically convenient but because it’s the right thing to do, deserves our support.
TO # 7
THE YIDDEN THAT STARTED COMMUNISM WERE YIDDEN ONLY BY VIRTUE OF BIRTH “NOT” BY VIRTUE OF LIVING AND THINKING LIKE YIDDEN.
SO DON’T JOIN THE CHORUS THAT SAYS “IT’S ALL THE FAULT OF THOSE #@%* JEWS.
The Rebbe on Socialism
Milhouse does not read how the Rebbe and the Shulcha Aruchch contradict your views. I don’t write Chinese if that is what you’d understand.
Milhouse
#72, communism is inherently evil. If you want to claim that the Rebbe and the Shulchan Aruch endorse evil then och un vei to you. We Lubavitchers know what communism is.
Amused Observer
#28, you are exactly right, and it points out the irony of a group that collects government assistance at such a high rate railing against “communist” programs.
The Rebbe on Socialism
We are speaking of democratic socialism as #63 put it.
The Rebbe clearly states this: “Anyone who sees a conflict between socialism and Torah does so out of ignorance”.
I did not once mention communism.
The Rebbe on Socialism
Again, Milhouse, the laws for taxes to support housing food and medical care for the poor is not a Halachah as other tzedakah laws. The Bes Din forcefully takes taxes from all the community members. How is this different than national health care and programs for the impoverished, unless you stand by your very racist distinction that the Jewish poor should receive food lodging and health care and the gentile poor not.
Milhouse
#76, what are you talking about? How is it “not a Halacha as other tzedaka laws”? On the contrary, you’re insisting that it *is* a halacha!
“The Bes Din forcefully takes taxes from all the community members.” Yes, just as it enforces *all* halochos. Or are you so ignorant that you think “halachos” are voluntary, and Beis Din doesn’t enforce them, and this is somehow different?
“your very racist distinction ” Wait a second. Are you a Chossid or an apikores? How dare you use the Rebbe’s name if you deny the *essential* distinction bein yisroel lo’amim?! The mitzvah of Ahavas Yisroel applies only to Yisroel, agreed? Or do you imagine that either we or nochrim have a mitzvah of Ahavas Nochrim?
The mitzvah of tzedokoh applies only to Aniyei Yisroel; giving to Aniyei Akum is not a mitzvah. Do you deny that? The gemoro in Bovo Basro 8b makes this very clear; it says that even though gabo’ei tzedokoh are allowed (*not* required, mind you, but allowed) to support Aniyei Akum together with Aniyei Yisroel because of darkei sholom, the donor who gave that money which ends up with the Aniyei Akum gets no schar! He thinks he has done a mitzvah, he gave leshem mitzvah, but when he arrives lema’alah he will find that all his money went to Aniyei Akum and there is nothing in his account! Go explain that, if you believe tzedokoh is not just a subset of Ahavas Yisroel. Or do you have the chutzpah to deny the gemoroh?
The Rebbe on Socialism
I answered all your points before you asked them. Simply reread my comments after you respond to receive my response, (which I had already written). I won’t be returning to this thread, as I am just repeating myself.
IT Professional
Milhouse:
I will defer to the Rebbe’s comment on the subject to demonstrate my earlier point,
Paraphrased: “There is no contradiction between Torah and socialism”. How could this be the case if socialism in practice is theft?! Furthermore, Bes Din does not force fulfillment of Mitzvos (in golus), however when it comes to supporting the needy of the community (and several other exceptions) it does have the right to impose force, whether excercized or not.
Footnote: By your standards every public assistance program is rampant theft, from WIC to foodstamps to section 8 to medicaid to social security (…for the disabled, as well as most public service programs from public education to firefighters and trash pickup, not to mention foreign aid).
I refer you back to the Rebbe’s assessment concluding that it is by no means theft.
You might find yourself justifying socialism as a measure of crime prevention and securing peace (as evidenced by socialist countries having the lowest crime rates).
I see it as “right to life” which must not only be passively upheld, but actively as well. Not only must a citizens life not be threatened by the gvmt, but when it is threatened by another force (violent drunk, wreckless driver or starvation) it must be protected.
This is surely more important than public education.
Milhouse
#78, you did not answer anything. You openly said that it is “racist” to talk of the deep gulf bein yisroel lo’amim. Thus you are exposed as an apikores and a sheigetz, and you have no right to cite the Rebbe for any purpose.
#79:
“There is no contradiction between Torah and socialism.”
This is directed to socialists to bring them back to Torah, not chas vesholom to Torah people to encourage them to become socialists! The Rebbe was trying to bring committed socialists closer to the Torah, not chas vesholom to promote socialism. How dare you cite it for the opposite purpose?
“Bes Din does not force fulfillment of Mitzvos (in golus), however when it comes to supporting the needy of the community (and several other exceptions) it does”
This is absolutely false. I’d like to know where you got such a false and ignorant idea. What am ho’oretz told it to you, since you certainly didn’t learn it in a sefer? Beis Din certainly does enforce *all* mitzvos, if it can; and if it can’t then it obviously can’t enforce tzedokoh either. This is not subject to dispute; it is the plain fact, as anybody who knows anything can tell you.
“socialist countries having the lowest crime rates).”
Garbage. That is utter garbage and I’m sure you know it, but like all socialists you are dishonest to the core of your being and you will lie and cheat and say or do anything because you have no morality. Socialism *is* a crime, the greatest crime that has ever been committed in human history.
At any event, the topic here is whether Yvette Clarke is a communist, and you don’t dispute that. You just think it’s OK because you are one too. Fine, you can both go to gehenom together with your socialist leaders, Hitler, Stalin, Trotsky, Lenin, Pol Pot, Mao, Castro, Che, Chavez, etc.