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Op-Ed Response: Yeshivas Too Focused on the Gifted

by Anonymous

I penned this op-ed as a response to the one titled “The Decline of Tomchei Temimim.” First of all, contrary to the title’s suggestion, this isn’t a new concept. Yeridas hadoros is normal, not breaking news.

The most elementary rule in education is that each and every pupil is an individual that must have his/her needs met. I experienced the opposite of what the grievance in the article was. I was in a super strict yeshivah. Though my intelligence was and is probably above average, I had no cheishek (stamina/discipline) to sit and shteig in gemarah, shulchan aruch and samach vov all day. If you were spotted talking about non learning related matters with your friends [during seder], you would have a member of hanholo staring you down. Every time my father would inquire by my Rosh Yeshivah of my progress, he would be given a negative report. Thus my father had no respect for me and my self-esteem was in shambles.

A Yeshivah shouldn’t be a place where a bochur feels that he has a kapo above him that will strike him if he isn’t shteiging away. A yeshivah should be a place that has as their mission statement, “We are a place that offers a healthy environment bgashmius ubruchnius for our bochurim.” It shouldn’t be an academy for higher learning, because then all the bochurim who don’t conform are at a high risk of rebelling r”l. By some miracle, despite my negative experiences, I turned out well and am now married, on shlichus, etc.

I very strongly feel that the yeshivas should start focusing on educating and creating a curriculum based on the intellect of the students who are between the 25th – 35th percentiles of [intellect of] pupils. Those bochurim that are bored because of the ease of the curriculum should be assigned extra learning to be more commensurate with their higher levels of intellect and/ or stamina to toil in learning.

What yeshivas did in my day was the reverse. They created an intellectual boot camp (i.e. yeshivas designed the most strenuous curriculum to gain the reputation as the ‘Harvard’ of yeshivas), and if they saw a bochur struggling, they ‘did him a favor’ by saying, “We will diminish the material you are required to master for the test,” i.e. – you are too stupid to keep up with this program, so we will accommodate your intellectual weakness.

Conclusion: Yeshivas must gear towards the common and accommodate the gifted, not gear towards the gifted and accommodate the common. This will help ensure self-esteem of bochurim which is the most important ingredient in keeping our youth y’rayim v’shlaymim (frum).

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30 Comments

  • confused

    your only saying that cuz your dumb!!
    listen to a smart person piont of view of that.
    “i should just sit and waste my time with a lower level than me just because theres a bunch of dumb people in my class?!”

  • Validated

    Gifted One, you are on the money, on target, right on, and profoundly astute.You get it! Too bad many of those in the system do not get it! But I’ve been there, and I know you are right. How can we effect a change? I’m thinking that a start might be to communicate our concerns to the leadership of our communities. I think I’ll write a letter right now. Does anyone care to follow suit?

  • samech vovnik

    reb yid
    “Though my intelligence was and is probably above average”

    this quote from you tells me you should have spent more time on samech vov

  • Agree

    I would say that you have hit the nail on the head! Great points! I’d like to see more of your thoughts on the subject. I’d love it if you could suggest people in the community who would be open to an objective assessment. What kinds of data are available? The time has come! What is interesting to me is that although the Rebbe frequently referred to the need to treat each individual at their personal present level of understanding at that particular time, I do not see many teachers in yeshivas adhering to that important notion. Why? What happened? Where is the leadership in this area? IS there leadership in this areas? Is there a need for more effective leadership? Is there a need for ADDITIONAL leadership? Let’s get together somehow and effect positive change.

  • re: samech vovnik

    What’s wrong with an author whilst illustrating a picture to prove a point using honesty to paint that picture. He didn’t write he’s way above average, he wrote simply above average and even that he wrote probably.

  • OT does just that

    OT is not what it was 10 years ago

    They have teachers for every level, they have yiddish and English speaking teachers. they have personal tutors that work with the bochurim and so on

  • Sheep vs Individuals

    I don’t think it has to do with being smart or stupid. I take that back, i do. But i do think some have it backwards. I think the ones who cant sit through a class are the smart ones, they are the thinkers who are not getting answers to deep questions and the ones who take everything they are taught as truth are stupid (i don’t really mean stupid, i mean– sheep or not that deep of thinkers) They (the sheep) do well in a yashiva environment and are called smart. The problem is that sheep are looked up to more then thinkers, not to say they are both not equal, they are, but i imagine that someone that has an authority role would rather spend more time on his sheep then the individuals. its easier.

  • critic

    it is partly true.
    teachers who don’t have proper training, and who are only teaching because they don’t know what else to do, are most interested in the gifted, one reason being that they make the teacher look good and its more interesting, and they can have more success with them.

  • Uri

    You know I am pretty well rounded in yeshiva’s, I went to the same misivtah for three year but to three different zal’s.

    I went on “good” shlichus and learned smicha in an a very good “program”, and now currently learning in a Yeshiva.

    Based on my experience, I have one problem with this article: which yeshiva are you talking about, it most certainly is not a Chabad institution.

    There are many issues with Chabad yeshiva’s, however the one(s) you mention here are negligible.

    The statement that “yeshivas designed the most strenuous curriculum to gain the reputation as the ‘Harvard’ of yeshivas” is complete bogus,it is inaccurate and erroneous.

    If you want the real facts please feel free to reply in the comments and I’ll keep it going.

  • educators

    well said

    the first step is that we need EDUCATORS running our yeshivah.
    (not just ppl who are very learned)

  • There is NO system!!!

    The problem is the heading. The truth is there is no focus. Period. The only difference is the gifted ones survive due to their own self-motivation and impetus. The vast majority of hanholas are totally irrelevant to the ruchniyesdike welfare of the bochurim.

  • to #1

    If you are as arrogant as you sound, you may be book learned, but you are not thoughtful or wise right now. Really smart people do not call others dumb. They may use words that show compassion, understanding, support, etc. For your (limited )information, not everyone learns in the same way. Your teachers owe it to their students to teach every single one of them. But first they have to know that teaching one way to one student very well may not be the way the next student learns. How fortunate you are that your teachers have a style that fits your particular gifts and ways to learn. Often others are not dumb, just different from you. It doesn’t make you better or them better. Now, if you feel you are stunted in your learning, then gezunteh heit learn on your own or ask for extra work. But your arrogance does not serve you well. You insult yourself. By the way, there is such a thing as grouping students with similar styles. There is also such a thing as grouping different levels of students taught by a teacher who knows his craft and the intricacies involved in teaching the same content in different ways. I don’t mean to insult you, but on the other hand you did insult some of your peers.

  • Mom

    #7 hit the nail on the head! I couldn’t have said it better myself. The schools are in essence dumbing down our kids. They are not taught to think for themselves, problem solve, or express their ideas. It’s really so sad because the ones who are amazingly talented and imaginative are stunted and hushed up. They aren’t taught to apply any of their learning to reality and the lives we live.

  • bais Sefer Lamilacha

    People forget, the rebbe started trade schools. More bachurim should go to them. Not everyone is meant for yeshiva. The issue is that a guy who would go to a trade school would be looked down upon. That has to end. There are some extremely chassidishe good bachurim who simply do not have the ability to sit and learn in yeshiva the full day. There should be chassidishe trade schools for them

  • to 7

    dont be jealous of those that can sit and learn, and are getting answers, you sound like youre trying to put down those that are better than you.

  • to #2

    I think everyone should do something. Write a letter, an email, make some calls, speak to anyone of influence you know, get the ball rolling! Maybe this will actually have an effect instead of just blowing away in the wind of human forgetfulness.

  • To #1

    What are you responding to? Could you be more clear in your message? I’m having a hard time putting your thoughts together in a way I understand. What are the quotation marks for? Who is saying something? Are you calling the writer dumb? Are you calling yourself smart? I happen to think the original writer sounds extremely intelligent and cogent. Also, as a a professor in the field of education for 30 years, I see a lot of sense and relevance in what he says. He is widening the paradigm of the system and attempting to include a wider population of learners. That is our obligation as educators….to teach whom we have, not wish for whom we do or do not want in our classes. {As a teacher I guess I’ll mention that you should proofread what you write for grammatical and spelling errors.}

  • To the writer ot the op ed-

    Oh, my goodness, how very smart and perceptive you are. I wish there were more like you. You ignite a spark of hope for me, because you are bright enough to see things from a healthy vantage point and be creative in a very purposeful way. Thank you. You offset narrow,rigid thinkers enough to make me feel better about our future. Thank you, thank you.

  • yeshiva-s/pathetic

    i have very smart grown up sons who are either in business or professionals. one never had a confidence problem he is in business. the other ones are college graduate professionals who had similar problems in yeshiva. you know whats pathetic? they had to go to college realize just how smart they were, even though through those years I constantly told them that. it was amazing, the transformation in their whole demeanor when they realized that, for themselves. How you can see that they were feeling “hay I am smart”, “hay I can produce and accomplish” its so sad that yeshiva’s tear down boys instead of building them up and making them feel good. I can only say I am so happy to be out of that “parsha”

  • To 21 and 13

    im not saying im smart and im not saying others are dumb- or i should say “excessively challenged” and i do agree with the writer that the system should be split up into levels for everyones advantage and personal needs, but the lovely author put it in a way and i quote “Yeshivas must gear towards the common and accommodate the gifted, not gear towards the gifted and accommodate the common.” that really all depends on the school, class, and teacher u have or are in. the writer must have been in a class full of very smart kids so he feels that way but oters classes have many higher leved kids and fewer lower leveled kids and then it owuld have to be the oppsite way around – gear towards the common is the higher leveled who would feel bored if it was the other way and the lower level have to get the accomodations-it all depends on the situation- ithin the article needs a more general opinion of split into levels not wich way its geared to

  • Relevant quote

    I’d like to quote something I just read in the booklet merkaz anash put out entitled Guidance & Leadership.
    “…The mission of every Mashpia is not to wait until someone brings you a glass of tea or a cup of juice and begs you to share a chassidisher vort, and only then to say something to him – and even then, not bother to explain it, on the pretext that anyhow ‘a chassidesher vort never goes to waste…’
    ”better yet, the mashpia assures himself that since the Alter Rebbe primised that whoever is mekushar to him will be safe, there’s no need to even say a vort… So the mashpia goes off to learn by himself…
    “This is not the kavona of our Rebbeim! The Rebbeim expect every mashpia to personally approach chassidim and inspire them…’
    sichos kodesh 5740, vol. 3 p 303

  • hey 24

    totally greee
    but just because one bochur does not have the zitz fleish to sit and learn does not mean that the yeshiva system is a failiure

  • just saying

    i like ur article, unfortanetly, not to be negative or anything why would they change, bec ppl are dying for such a system, seems to me, just saying.

  • to

    do not be jealous of number 7 that he can think for himself. evrybody learns in diff ways and our school system helps some learn and not others, thats all he/she is saying.