Can a website, run anonymously, with no transparent operating guidelines or credible research policy, no psychologists or professionals on board, be allowed to bad mouth and disgrace so many in our community whilst destroying their families? On the other hand, can people who are dangerously at loose, leaving lifetime scars on our very own precious children, be allowed to walk guilt free whilst their victims cower in fear?
Op-Ed: The Good, the Bad and the Very Ugly
Can a website, run anonymously, with no transparent operating guidelines or credible research policy, no psychologists or professionals on board, be allowed to bad mouth and disgrace so many in our community whilst destroying their families? On the other hand, can people who are dangerously at loose, leaving lifetime scars on our very own precious children, be allowed to walk guilt free whilst their victims cower in fear?
Is there any way of protecting our children and teenagers, preventing the abusers from walking free and re-offending, and at the same time prevent pointed and malicious slander made against innocent people. Is there any way that we can shield our vulnerable ones – not at the expense of other innocent people? Is putting people’s name online really the only solution?
CHW has undeniably had a major impact on how we view abuses and abusers in our community, it has made many people really start thinking about how to best protect our kids, and I have no doubt about it that many potential molesters have been deterred. The website has to be commended for this; it is often grassroots movements that lead to the greatest changes, and CHW is a case in point. The Good.
That being said, the current modus operandi, whereby nobody takes responsibility for the content of the site, or the veracity of the claims, is an extremely objectionable and problematic stance. The website assures us that every claim is verified. But who exactly is doing these verifications? Are there any professionals doing research? How do we know that the authors of the website themselves do not have hidden agendas? What are the criteria required to incriminate someone? Is there literally no concept of rehabilitation for the perpetrators, that people who committed crimes years ago can not repent? And where is the basic human right to a fair trial?
There are so many questions to ask about a website that has not one single respected community leader or member backing them up and willing to associate themselves with the website. Does not the glaring lack of any professionals not scream that something is amiss? Is it not time that the website creates a board of publicized and respectable members, to sit down and work out a consistent system of verifying and dealing with the perpetrators, in an honest, truthful and transparent manner? It only takes one mistaken identity to destroy a persons life, and to totally discredit the positive work that has come from the website, and who knows if this has not already been done. The Bad.
Then there is the Ugly. Where are our community leaders, our Rabbis and mentors, our teachers and do good-ers? Where are they for our children, it is their apathy that drives desperate people to run such a website. Where is their guidance and moral standing. Where are they to educate our children and fellow parents, and to confront the molesters and abusers amongst us. And where are they to stop the website exposing them, when it goes too far?
We have the most moral and beautiful Torah, a guide for all times during all trials and tribulations. Do we not have a system of dealing with the dishonorable members of our community. Are there no precedents to draw knowledge and inspiration from during these trying times? Is it too much for people to settle problems in front of a Beis Din, or a respectable Rabbi, that the first approach is to “bashmutz” the villain? Are offenders asked for a reckoning and made to see professionals, and are they checked to see where they are holding now? Where are the leaders to add moral clarity to this whole debacle and to give guidance?
The problem becomes worse when you look at some of the offenders. One, is an isolated case of indecency, from when the accused was a bochur over a decade ago and in very questionable circumstances! Would any professional really allow such a person to be vilified, from one account and possibly secondary evidence from one of his friends? Another is someone who is clinically certified as mentally retarded!
Is it not disgraceful that our leaders are so timid, in both protecting our children and for allowing such a website to continue without any restraint or control, that we have reached a stage that each man takes the law into his own hands?
It is not my intention, G-d forbid, to defend the real offenders. These people have ruined lives, and continue to. They have to be stopped. Period. It is not my intention to underestimate the pain the victims go through, and the importance of protecting these children and others (including my own) from being abused. Nor is it my intention to stop victims from coming forward and pursuing their molesters in the courts of law.
What I am asking for, is that there should be accountability on the site. That there should be respected members of the community, Rabbonim and community leaders, in charge. Because, hopefully, the Rabbonim can add moral clarity and the Torah’s vision. Additionally, when someone has their name associated with the site, and they have to shoulder the responsibility, they will do everything possible to tackle the problem and try every possible alternative, before going public.
Because two wrongs do not make a right, and hurting all the innocent people related to these wicked molesters, before having exhausted all other avenues, is absolutely and completely wrong.
put up all the ch molesters
i beleiev that thr rabbis and the community leaders have had their chance and unless they stand ready to proclaim to the community who is harming their children than this site must continue to do the job
and by the way they are missing many other molesters from CH as well
Question
Your main problem is that the site runs without credible names. Yet you write an entire opinion without a name!?
Mach a saris shoyn!!
1) The one who is clinically certified has no business being on the streets. His victims are victims regardless of who he is. If nothing else, HASC has a group home in CH and he needs to be in supervised living.
2) One incident? If it is provable, it has to be made public.
Enough is enough. My real problem is that these offenders are arrested and then right back out on the streets. Among the ones listed are three “heavy hitters.” I do not see any notice that any of the three are behind bars or even processed by law enforcement.
These people need a visit from the Arba Misois Beis Din of Harav Shtarker – in other words, a visit from three big guys who are “connected” in Brighton Beach or Bensonhurst, and who will make it clear that if the offenders don’t agree to treatment and restitution, they will wish they were arrested.
SOME GOOD POINTS, BUT>>>>
Imagine the web site wouldn’t be anonymous, Imagine one of the Rabbonim would support it, the result would be that people who oppose that Rov would discredit the website.
unfortunately, our community is so divided that no matter who would be behind the website, there will be those that will discredit them and use that information to take down the site.
It has to be anonymous.
Someone with insider Info.
I happen to know that a Rov from this community is very involved in the site and is consulted about a lot of the decisions….
Sad but true
“ there should be respected members of the community, Rabbonim and community leaders, in charge. ”
The problem is that nobody in Crown Heights respects anybody.
You miss the whole point Mr.
The Rabbi’s, school heads and “leaders” are part of the problem. they are the ones who did nothing, brushed it under the rug or even covered up the abuse for Years.
if they were running the site they would just shut it down.
To BER S
WoW!! the irony! lets see you put a name to this oped and see how you handle the heat!
Avrahom
The writer is wrong. Someone has the guts to do the right thing and the writer comes to ask questions. The person doing it has shown to be responsible. I ask the writer ,what have you done about the above? Zero, so you do not have the right to say anything. Stop trying to defend the people listed on CHW
good point
wow! thanks for articulating exactly what im thinking.
Louis
Après moi, le déluge
And you are?
You have a good point…and now, please share your own name. You won ‘t? Why not? Are you concerned that members of the community will respond to you negatively? Imagine, then, how any person considering publicly associating their name with the site feels. It is obvious and sadly well known that those who publicize their name is likely to suffer more than the perpetrators. And if that is an exaggeration, the truth is that even a fraction of that negativity is more than the do gooders should suffer. Look at the struggle of the victimized bochur who recently posted wondering if he should come forward publicly or anonymously. Our community as a whole is not yet open minded enough nor unified enough to support even respected Rabbis who come forward to stand behind this effort.
The reason why I believe the site...
You say: “How do we know that the authors of the website themselves do not have hidden agendas”
Thats the whole point. if the author of CHW had a hidden agenda he would be outed by now and the site would be a joke.
The people on that list are being accused of the worst thing possible. If they were 100% Innocent they would investigate who is behind the site, they would figure out who has an agenda to destroy them and then they would publicize it for the world to see.
Believe me if I – out of the blue one morning found my face on that site, I would wrack my brain to figure out who hate’s me so much to destroy me and my family. is there anybody that i’ve had bad business dealings with? is there a past student that carries a grudge against me? I would uncover their involvement in the site, I would then bring solid proof that this person has ulterior motives to bring me down – and I would do everything in my power to let the whole world know about it.
The fact that you hear nothing from the accused (besides for a few lame excuses from the family) is proof that the site CAN be trusted.
agreed
Guilty until proven innocent is not the way to go because it hurts any accused. Lashon Hora is true but not allowed. Lets do a MVP website which will help people improve.
couldn-t get any uglier!
You are right.
The answer to your article is this:
The reason for The Good being processed in the method you label The Bad is precisely for the reason your refer to as The Ugly:
The leaders and Rabbonim are silent because they are Ugly.
They are guilty in this issue, very guilty.
Not only have they not stopped the epidemic, but have directly fueled it.
Ask many of the victims. They help perps stifle victims, they give affidavits to perps claiming that they are upright. In many cases, the Rabbis are held hostage by our local perps because of their guilt in other areas. Some of our most oft quoted so-called leaders are directly involved one way or the other in the crimes against our community members.
Sounds harsh? Well, Ugly is harsh after all…
We are at WAR for our LIVES, which justifies the need for The Good being done via The Bad.
We are forced to circumvent The Ugly.
When The Ugly will strictly follow G-d’s laws, The Light and The Beauty and the Truth, then only The Good will be necessary.
We are at war, mister!
Get it?!
War is Bad and Ugly.
But it is unfortunately necessary if we are not to be annihilated. Right now, Crown Heights is the ugliest community and getting uglier every day. Unimaginably ugly.
But G-d is Good, and unless he plans to overturn the place like Sodom, He will work something out to save us. Meanwhile, keep pumping out that good old Bad!
What should be done?
On the one hand you are absolutely correct in relation to having a face or a group of respected Rabbi’s/professionals/community leaders running a website that has the potential to save and destroy lives. There also must be specified criteria.
On the other hand (putting on the hat of the creators of the website) if it were my website, why would I?
I created the site to correct a wrong. A wrong that Rabbi’s/professionals/community leaders ignored and were for years complacent to. I feel I’m doing a good job. I feel I properly vet every situation. I know I can’t be bought. Although there is a silent minority that has issues with how I run things, the majority is for me (and if they weren’t I probably could care less).
When I make a mistake (and that day will come) I will probably excuse it by saying at least I saved hundreds/thousands or never have the honesty to admit it to myself.
Is there good, bad and ugly? Yes, but is there a perfect solution? No, and it is our inaction as a community that created this storm.
i see it the same way
very well said.but will it happen?
Common decency
Couldn’t agree with you more. The road to he** is paved with the best of intentions. If these people behind the site have the best intentions, I do not know, but that the execution of the site is downright evil, is more clear by the day. To shame a human being in such a public way thus destroying his life without consulting a rov as to whether it’s justified is evil. There is no other way to put it. Hitler ym”s tried to cleanse as well. He may have started out with good intentions (I’m quite positive he didn’t, just making a point), but it got way out of hand as we all know and wen’t to ethnic cleansing… 6 million people were slaughtered at the end of it all.
The cheer team of that site is mob mentality as opposed to proper execution which would be done appropriately with rabbinical supervision with Rabbonim guiding us when outing someone is appropiate and which cases not, ON AN IDIVIDUAL CASE TO CASE BASIS! If you are concerned of prominent offenders slipping by because of stature of offenders family, let them have a rov from a non Lubavitch community review the cases. This rank amateur website is madness and they will have to report to Hashem one day if they make mistakes… That’s why we have Rabbonim, that if a mistake is made while following Rabbonim’s guidance, it’s on their playtses, not ours!
Chaim
Rabbonim and community leaders have repeatedly failed to take action in the past and have made excuses for the offenders so as to not tarnish the community’s or the institutions they personally represent and control reputations. This is why an alternative, independent and unbiased site is needed.
The sites owners, however, (who can be traced) should be liable for slander and untruthful content.
Good Job
Crown Heights Watch is great. They don’t need therapists, etc. inorder to function. I thing you are really protecting thee abusers by raising doubhts about the website.(doubht—amalek).
P.S. there are lockups for pedophiles who are special or mentally challenged.
You are full of —-!!!!!!!.
Thank G-d for CH Watch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the truth hurts
Any wacko can make a site the question is who will follow it : )
THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OG MY HEART
Members of crown heights watch, I fully support you and know what you deal with on a daily basis, and the research you do on every predator to make sure you don’t make a mistake.
I know plenty of people that have not been posted yet and their victims have come to you guys.
I salute you for your work and what you have done, changed and what you will continue to do at the risk of your own life’s. You are the only people brave enough to protect the children that are not even your own.
I am jealous of your places in the world to come.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart
whilst?
Who says whilst?
eli
Jews through the ages have been crucified. why not do it to ourselves?
Chaim
One person did a great thing in making CHW and you dare to attack him? Forget about all the people you mentioned getting involved. It has not happened and will not. Be happy that one person has the good sense stand up to these abusers.
More Clarity
It seems like a lot of people that this sight exposes have been enjoying their public figure presence while behind the facade that have been looting the Rebbe’s precious children. If they are indeed innocent let them speak up and send out a post proclaiming their innocence, let them take a lie detector test for all to see. Why should we keep it a secret and leave a “BORE SET IN THE RESHUS HARABIM.” Thank you Crown Heights watch for contributing to restoring the purity of our schuna.
Montrealer
Wow! So well-written and expressed. And so brave for standing up to the mob-mentality.
What some people fail to realize is that there is also much collateral damage by ‘outing’ these abusers on a website in such a manner. Indeed, the victims have suffered terribly, by no choosing of their own. But now, by publishing and publicizing the abusers’ names on the CHW site, don’t the nuclear and extended family members suffer terribly too? Can they now walk the streets of CH without being talked about, looked at and reviled? Who will marry these children? Who would want the abuser as a mechuten? Who would take them into their employ? Their camps and so on? Does this form of vigilante justice give the right to destroy their lives too?
With this model, there’s no gain to anyone here: the victims of the abuser have themselves now victimized other innocent persons, albeit in a different way. If you cry for the victims, cry also for the abuser’s family members. They exist and you cannot just pretend they are not there. They are our responsibility too and we cannot let their lives be chopped down because of the sins of their father (or mother).
Let no one say that the abuser should have thought of this before perpetrating his heinous crimes. He didn’t – but the victims have the luxury of that forethought. That in turn gives them no right to continue the cycle of ruining the lives of other bystanders.
We need a different solution / formula to keep these sick persons away from children. But as mentioned above, a case-by-case review should be required. Creative and innovative approaches are necessary to prevent more innocents being ruined for life. Bring in the pros and let’s deal with this in a fair, just and respectable manner. Let us be proud of our solutions and let them not just be the emotional warfare perpetrated on the abusers.
To the Author
I must admit that I didn’t finish reading the article, but you miss some important facts: they actually challange anyone to give them a false name and see what happens, and if you feel that it’s so easy then you go ahead and do it. Secondly, if they put their names up do you know what type of pressure they will get? the intemedation that they will recieve? You’re actually being a hypocrite – you can’t even put your name up on an op-ed!
we will find all you cowards
how many principals, teachers, rabonim, and leaders all know that these horrible crimes are going on? but they choose to send them away to Israel instead. Its time for drastic measures to take place. shmeckle oifen tish as they say in yiddish.
We need to expose them for who they are, to the greatest extent. If you want to tell me, that we should feel sorry for his family, well he should of thought about that when he was raping little boys.
Your letter raised a lot of valid points but it would of came across better if you put your name on, with your last name.
Next thing that will be exposed are all the names of those principals and teachers, that know that these crimes are going on and dont do any thing about it. jerry sandusky
Agreed!!
AGreed! Thanks you crown heights.info for posting this opened
yankel
A truthful article! besides all that is said, does this website or any other website spreading loshon hora (if it is true) or Rechilus (when it is a lie) comply with what chabad stands for? a person eating on yom kipur comes to dance with the torah on simchas torah in a chabad house, being honored (with a donation or not) we focus on the good did. instead of advertising bad behaviors of people maybe offer them help? aren’t they human beings as well? are we commanded to hate them? at the other hand, if a guy was not prosecuted, no arrest, aren’t they innocent until proven guilty? all this throws some thoughts about the people running such websites, are they spotlessly clean, honest, yirei shomaim? or just some hooligans terrorizing innocent (or maybe not so innocent) people? but in today’s world anyone can say and do what they wish, it is hefker for everyone.
1234567890
Yes. Both Torah and US law require us to judge as innocent until proven guilty.
At the very least, ensure that someone takes responsibility, publicly, for the site.
Elesoy
You raise pertinent questions. I believe this website–messy as it is–is the best our community can do. It’s not a solution to the problem, just a reaction. Our culture is not progressive enough for the problem of child-molestation to be handled by professionals who also have the power to do so.
Shaian
Whomever wrote this shame on you! Shame on you! Apathy?! The guy that made that website is amazing! HE was molested as a child that is his way of preventing others from going through what he did!
AGREE OR DONT AGREE?
I think there is a bit of hypocrisy here. On one hand that website decries the statute of limitations and contends that one ought to be able to pursue justice forever without expiration. On another hand, they contend that the rachmonus upon the victims ought to expire once many years pass. It is common knowledge that people that were molested are far more likely to become molesters themselves than the common man. So it is quite possible that these molesters were molested themselves in their youth. So where is the pity upon them? Their lives were truly ruined by those who molested them, to the extent that they became molesters themselves! But I guess CHW has no pity on them because pity has a limitation and expiration date. Hypocrites!!
A responsible organization would seek to peacefully reconcile each case without destroying the perp’s life forever but attempting to get help for him as well (of course get help for the victim, but even get help for perp). Of course, once those efforts are exhausted, their identities must be publicized to protect the masses, but I think if you speak to a molester and notify him that he better shape up or his sins will become public knowledge, he himself will self impose a restraining order of himself from children in order to protect his own interests (even if he lacks the motivation to do it for the sake of the children). If all else fails, there is a way to medically (permanently) to extract lust from a person (don’t remember procedure but it involves subduing the hormones), and the molesters should be offered that procedure as an alternative before outing their identities to the mass public. Remember that shaming a person in public (especially in these matters) is likened by our sages to murder and to merely decide for oneself that the person has a status of a roidef thus permitting it, must be a decision made by a rov who feels that all other ways of dealing with this has already been exhausted.
Last but not least, we mustn’t be hasty to judge, for the way we judge others is ultimately the way Hashem will judge us after 120. Rather judgement must be thorough and when the greatest measures are required (such as shaming perp publically), it must be done with deepest pain and regret, and never G-d forbid with enthusiasm.
Bottom line: There can’t be a single standard to apply to all perps, rather each case must get clearance (for public shaming of perp) by a competent rov (even a liberal one), and never G-d forbid by anonymous hotheads behind keyboards.
well said
very good points. i always wondered at this myself. Is anyone at the website so sure that these abusers are still a danger today or did they take the time to find out if they did get help/therapy before listing the abusers?
dear (mis-informed) ber s.
You obviously didn’t do much research before writing this article. However any one who actually has done their reseach will tell you that infact CHW is made up of a board of Rabbonim (leading ones from our community and from other communities), law enforcement officers (NYPD sex crimes unit detectives, as well as detectives from the FBI) and very well known and respected psychologist’s, as well as yungerliet from the community (people of all ages and from all backgrounds.) Too bad that you wastes your time writing such an extensive article without being properly informed.
Indano
You write: “There are so many questions to ask about a website that has not one single respected community leader or member backing them up and willing to associate themselves with the website”
1) You are wrong! Rabbi Brown is fully behind and supportive of this site. When some of the listed people came to him for advice, he told them to back off. In addition, a certain individual was to be listed and thanks to the Rabbi’s intervention he was never listed.
2) Unless you don’t consider the Rabbi a respected leader in our community which is ridicules at best, then don’t complain.
3) You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You can’t insult our Rabbi and then say that there is no leader backing this website.
agreed
i have always mentioned that said websites administrator should not be under a cloak especially being that he/she demands one and all come forward….id like to see whoever runs the site come forward…
yossi a
if no one else wants to bring these trageties to the fore front than it is a must for the web sites to do it. they are the only ones that have the guts that others say, just sweep it under the rug
thank you
thank you
Fellow crown heightser
Very well written! Thanks for expressing what I and many people have been thinking. Our silence regarding this website feels like we are supporting a lynch mob.
No Joke
Ignore this op-ed. Lives are at stake. And I do not mean the offenders or their families. The fact this atrocities have gone on for all the years they have is disgusting. No one doing anything. Shut up about CHW and let them do what no one else had. This is the cost this community will have to pay for the years of silence and the river of tears from destroyed lives. This is no joke.
Bichor
Beautiful article, I could not have written this better myself.
I heard a rumor when CHW first started out that they went to “all” the rabbonim and community leaders in CH to have them on board and none of them would touch it as it was to politically sensitive.
Who would you recommend?
And prior to your recommendation as to who would and should back this site you should ask them first if they’de be willing to put someone they know in prison. These are the facts, most of the community leaders want to stay away from this subject due to the repercussions and intense political pressure they will face. But we need to get over that and save the lives of our children in our community!!
Eh Mess
Are sites like CHInfo and others that much different? They too allow anonynous comments and it is up to them to decide what to post and what not. Everyone has a personal agenda. Thus, any site and especially those which allow comments, is the same. strain.
Fact is, that’s today world in general, but laso since its creation. It has Tov, Rah, Klipah, Noga…or good, bad, ugly. That’s the challenge. Some try to meet it by making everything (in this case internet) assur.
I say, better to teach how to make choices. You can’t win by trying to control. You teach a man HOW to fish.
Transparency...
I find it quite insightful and intriguing that the person asking for transparency is not forthcoming with his own name (by Ber S.??) Why the ambiguity? What is your ulterior motive?
I think we understand were you are coming from.
Agreed!!
Agree!
Hang On A Sec
This site “has made many people really start thinking about how to best protect our kids, and I have no doubt about it that many potential molesters have been deterred”. You clearly know all the good this site has done,yet you go on to attack the site and vilify it for not having rabonnim on board.
1. Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with the concept of “kol hamatzil nefesh acahas byisroel…” By your own admission the site has saved lives, yet you still have ‘tainos’.
2. You then go on to defend the perpetrators. One was a bochur, another is retarded. As though this makes a difference. You undoubtedly have much better analytic and oratorical skills than me, for there is no possible way I would be able to explain to the victim that whatever happened to him is not so bad because it was done by a bochur.
3. “[O]ur leaders are so timid, in both protecting our children and for allowing such a website to continue… . B’michilas Kvoidchem, are you insane? Are you really equating the molesters with the operators of this site? Really?
4. ”It is not my intention, G-d forbid, to defend the real offenders.“ I’m glad to see that you only want to defend the not ”real offenders“. Would you perhaps be kind enough to share with us the difference between them. Precisely what kind of abuse do you find acceptable?
5. ”…two wrongs do not make a right…“ A very noble sentiment — in the playground. Unfortunately, the Torah appears to disagree with you. I can not think of a better contemporary case of ”habo bemachteres“.
6. If in fact there are no Rabbonim or professionals involved with the site, who should we have the ”tainos“ on: the Rabbonim or the site operators? The site operators need all the help they can get, and I am sure the site operators are quite ready to accept help form both Rabbonim and other professionals. To the extent that that there is not more rabbinic and lay involvement, we should have these complaints on our leadership. In fact, since you appear eager to be involved, I would suggest you got to their web site and drop them an email that YOU are ready to volunteer your services.
7. ”[W]hen someone has their name associated with the site, and they have to shoulder the responsibility, they will do everything possible to tackle the problem“ responsibly. Absolutely. One hundred percent true both web sites and for Op-Ed articles. Funny, I don’t often see last names composed of only one letter followed by a period.
Ultimately, it is true that this web site is not perfect, and could be doing things better. But they are doing things and you are not. If you do not like what the site operators are doing, and you feel you know what is better, start your own site. In fact, IF that is the case, you are obligated to start your own site. IF you have the power to stop molesters in a ”kosher” way and you are not doing it, what does that say about you? That makes you, at the very least, an enabler of this crime, if not an outright accessory.
Chana (Toronto)
A very well written article.
The points mentioned are very much true.
There is one specific principal who is mentioned on the site who is the subject of a part of your letter. Like you say
“ It only takes one mistaken identity to destroy a persons life, and to totally discredit the positive work that has come from the website, and who knows if this has not already been done.”
Please be careful about things like that.
On the other hand, keep up the good work.
Chani
So True!
Hit the nail on the head! Great article.
Was just thinking the exact same thoughts.
I used to trust the website but when I saw the dubious post about the shliach from when he was a bochur, I starting to double think. Then a friend told me that the “victim” is actually related to the owner of the website! Although that in itself doesn’t mean that he was not a victim, it does raise serious warning flags about the objectivity of the website, and the truthfulness of it’s posts.
I personally think that the website has run its due course. It has made its point and it is now time for the rabbonim to take over.
been there done that
Good morning;
After having read and thought about your editorial comments here, It is my humble opinion that, your say these words after the Op-Ed from Mendel, just a few days age.
Well, i’m not sure who you are, as I am not sure who Mendel is. however, the hurt, the emotion, the pain that I felt in those words seemed so real so vivid.
A man cries out to his parents, feeling alienated from all with no place to turn. yes, at the same time, I must agree with you. Where is the out cry from the leaders, where are the Rabbonim (if any) where are the community leaders etc. Why haven’t we heard anything from Osdoba, Shwei, Braun, Bogomilski, etc. (do’t mean at all to pin point explicitly on those, just naming a few at random)
For all I know, for arguments sake, you my dear might just be a Molester, perhaps feeling the pressure of being exposed, I don’t know.
However, I am from Crown Heights, frum and as many with my own “pekel”, having gone through some issues with them all, I can say in response. If you are truly an adult a resident from CH, my eye brows raised, I say, “are you surprised” are you in the opinion that we DO have true honest G-D fearing leaders, those without personal agendas, are you of the opinion that CH is so stable as in the good old days that a leader, a rabbi, a man with dignity a selfless person is here in CH that will stand up and make a “ma’cho” and out cry.
Lets take it a step further.
The frumkeit, the lost neshomos, the youth, the righteousness of each individual in Crown Heights is being protected.
Well me dear, wake up and smell the coffee, I have been through shame guilt, been through dealing with the Rabbonim, the leaders, we have none.
The Rebbe promised us, Dor Hashve’ie, Moshiach is here, thus the vibrant vivid leaderless community. As a ship that sinks (ikvasah di’mishicha) the darkest before dawn, the birth pains that is unbearable, the robustness of giving up, is so painfull,
We have the Rebbe and nothing else, no leaders no Rabbis No justice,
hold on for the Rebbe will achieve what he promised, you have children get close to them with love care and heart,
Hatzlacha rabe, may hashem look down and say “guys enough” time to walk out of golus. your pain and suffering has surpassed enough…… Amein
p.s. I am not ashamed of who I am and what I say, Obviously with much more. all those wanting to contact me stand up and be a man.
Michoe @ mechel5917093@gmail.com
Help
As a parent of a chilled that was abused by a so called very good friend of mine,
I can tell you that the worst thing we are going through (my point of view ) is the
Lack of support in fact the opposite we are the bad people, we are being punished
By our so called friends, chassidim and leaders/Hanholah.
In fact we have since found out that some members of our so called Hanholah and his parents knew about this persons history and said or did nothing to protect others from his family’s sick problems, and now one of my concerns is that I don’t want to be hated and despised, like I hate his parents for allowing their illness to affect others and not dealing with it when they found out about his actions.
One way to solve this problem is we must expose the abusers to protect others, and I mean LIFE as victims of abuse have committed suicide, so we are talking of Pikuach Nefesh, Dose any one know what that mean,s yet we look away or we treat victims like the nasty’s of our society, that’s how we are treated.
We did try
I agree that it would be wonderful if the website could have the endorsement or leaders in the community. I believe a time will come that it (or another one like it) will. But for now, this is a good place to start.
You ask: “Is it too much for people to settle problems in front of a Beis Din, or a respectable Rabbi, that the first approach is to “bashmutz” the villain? Believe me. This is NOT the ”first approach”. The reason the people behind CHW had to do what they are doing is precisely because we (the victims and the witnesses) DID try to go to Batei din. We DID approach Rabbonim and askonim- leaders in the community. And we were silenced. We were either told that we were crazy and must have imagined the whole thing, or we had a vendetta against the perpetrator, or we were threatened. We were told our kids would be shunned. I personally was told that my pending get would be witheld if I continued to speak about the abuse.
I have nothing to do with CHW because my fight is long over. I fought twenty years ago, and now I am handing over the torch to the next generation. Kol HaKavod to the organizers of CHW. May you go mechayil el choyil.
Are we condemned?
From this article it seems that the CHW website would have been a perfect fit during the Salem witch hunt and trials.
“Those who do not study history are condemned to repeat it”
Let’s try to learn from the past and have real proof of a crime before burning people on a stake.
Put up your name
Funny, you write a whole op-ed about not being anonymous, yet your start your op-ed with the three most anonymous words possible:
By Ber S
If you want to be taken seriously start by writing who you are!
BRITISH BOCHER
Hello firstly I must say a good Op-Ed well written and well titled. I am a 22 yr old Boucher and am what they call “a survivor” I was abused by two different teachers from the age of 6 till age 8 on nearly a daily basis, never told my parents as I was too embarrassed only told them at the age of 17. let me give my opinion on the matter firstly on this website that a came across a few weeks ago most of accusations were very very week and you can never really trust anything with a name. i read a letter from someone calling himself a “survivor” however the indecent is really very very minor and he seems to use it as an excuse for leaving yiddishkiet so he doesn’t feel bad driving on shabbos and eating treif!!! as someone who went thro it but in a much worse form i can tell you its over played by so many victims! its a crime yes and a bad one, but so is getting mugged and that can also leave emotional scares and if you think for one second that you can help your life by ruining someone else’s your wrong. the website isn’t about keeping people safe its about spreading loshon hara and someones agenda there are other ways to keep your kids safe you don’t need a website. the person who abused me came to me and begged for forgiveness i said i forgive if you promise it wont be repeated to another child. we are all human we all do bad things but sometimes we need to forgive. p.s. sorry if my grammar isn’t the best i never did much learning in school
Does not agree
Well, that’s the nature of the internet — the ability to put ideas and opinions “out-there,” anonymously. It’s inexpensive, and it’s powerful. It is just a tool which can be used for evil, and like the Rebbe said, can be used for good.
You know, of course, when you write this, that offenders have always taken advantage of people’s reluctance to address ugliness, speak loshon harah, and to be Melamed z’chus, etc. to perpetuate their behavior. Offenders suffer from personality disorders, and they take full advantage of people’s good nature to help them stay under the radar and continue the abuse.
While you are worried about the slim chance of ruining the reputation of an innocent person, research has shown that the opposite is true — it is very rare for the innocent to be accused, but when “there is smoke there’s fire” – most often the problem is MUCH worse than even imagined.
The two cases you mentioned do not change anything — a person can be a perpetrator under the age of 18 — even once.
Just like a teenager can pull the trigger on a gun – just once. The damage is the same and the age does not matter.
You are totally off-base (and obviously prejudiced!) with the comment about the retarded person. Retardation does not breed abusive behavior. A mentally retarded person is the same as everyone else – only with lower intelligence.
Your suggestions about rabbis having oversight has no basis, either. Rabbis are not trained in the area of mental health. Do you go to your Rav when you have an earache? And sadly, some of our Chabad representatives have tried to cover up abuse cases when Shluchim were implicated.
So, while you may prefer that a licensed therapist would host CHW, because of legal issues, you understand why he/she cannot.
I know the last post on this topic generated close to 200 responses…does it take this kind of sensationalism to sell ads?
At Last!!!!!
Thank you! I’ve been saying this from day 1. I have no connection at all to anyone named on CHW so in reality, it doesn’t affect me or my family. But I think it’s terrible that anyone can pretty much slander/libel people and CHW puts it up with real enjoyment. They are sick people in their own way.
Outing monsters is probably the only way to go to protect our kids, but this is the wrong way. CHW names names without any real evidence, just a bunch of anonymous people. Who knows if it’s true??? Wait for charges to be brought then name the perps. All they achieve is destroying families.
friend of menachem
To all those that say that the people behind the website say we should challenge them for a false name well what happened to menachem pikarsky why did they post his name ruin his name and then take him off!!
and when questioned the site they ignore you!!
this happens to be the second person that was listed and then taken off
this website may be needed but we also need to make sure its done responsibility and that the people on there 100% belong there
to number 2
there is a big difference this is a letter on a website not accusing anyone of anything that is a website with peoples pictures up!!!!
not a truthful site
#5 who’s the Rabbi backing the site? Why doesnt he post his name of support?
Anonymous Op-Ed is NOT hypocrisy
Accept the truth from the one who speaks it.
The author is not putting people’s names in the public. If they would go public they will just get torrents of abuse. What’s the point?
he is not defending any molester G-d forbid, all people want is to have someone responsible (pref a Licensed Therapist/Counselor) take responsibility.
Is that too much to ask?
Thank you to the Author
The thinking, normal people of Crown Heights know that the author is right on all points.
Many of us share this opinion but we stay away from the mob which usually frequents crownheights.info.
2 WORDS
LYNCH MOB 2 WORDS LYNCH MOB
to #60
The Rabbi who is backing the site told CHW to add more names because one wasn’t enough. I know who he is but I can’t say unless the person who told me I can. their relative was put on the list because of this rabbi and there’s no proof at all this guy did anything he’s just a bit weird.
Do all weirdos get to be put on the list just because they are weird? If so a lot of you need to worry.
comment
you cant play g-d and say “we might make a mistake but im sure 1 might be right”.
Anonymous
I completely agree. I strongly support the site and all that it is doing but after speaking with many different community members, it only makes sense to have a strong board of healthy and wise individuals to run an effort like this. Rabbonim, psychiatrists, investigators, and businessmen should all be involved because they have reputations to protect and therefore anything they will release will be trustable.
CHW is amazing!
Thank you CHW for doing what no one else has ever dared to do. To every one else who disagree’s, SHUT UP! Its a different day today! Get with the Program!
Help Wanted...
To all the Rabbonim, Psychiatrists, Investigators, and Businessmen who want to be involved, why don’t you send a resume to CHW, let them know what your field of experience is and what you can do to help.
to #69
to #69 so get rid of courts judges and police now the mob has taken over?
shay
If Crown Heights Watch took someoned off the site, its not because he wasn’t guilty or a mistake, its for reasons that they have which are unrelated to guilt or innocence.
To CHW...
To CHW, did anybody ever come to you and offer to help?
Or is it now that you are successful and scaring the hell out of a lot of people that everybody wants to join so they can close you down…
I too am a non Lynch mob member
thank you ber s. your op ed is well written and expresses the opinion of the few rational minded ppl in our community, and obviously no one would write his name on an article like this, that’s not the darn point!
reread the article, think for a minute… there, now do you understand?
when tarnishing the name of a individual forever, the LEAST you could do is offer some credibility.
shut that website down!
can we shut him down? he has no backing, no rabbis, no social workers, no cops, no judge, no lawyers…he has no educational diplomas to show! — he’s here to destroy the community
TO 75 YOU ARE A JOKE
They have rabbis.
They have support from a lot of powerful people. (And when the time is right they will come out with their names)
They have therapists.
They work with the DA’s office.
They work with detectives on a daily basis.
They work with detectives in other states as well.
They have 2 very good lawyers they work with.
Btw are you that predator’s daughter or niece that has been running around ch to all those younger guys and girls saying how bad they are? Or should I say how bad ‘’HE’’ is….. I heard you say the same thing like this the other day lol
And 72 I help them out when I have time, and you are 100% correct.
There is a reason people have to stay confidential. So your family won’t come and try to take revenge.
The Rabbis have to stay confidential because other wise 500 people will be calling them evryday.
I am not sure why people don’t understand that everything can not be in the open.
I hope we only hear good news from now on, this is a new day we have come too.
resident
crown heights watch is a good thing but it should have different categories, for example abusers not related to sexual, thief’s, con artist and so much more
The author is right on the money
Kol hakavod to the author. You hit the nail on the head. That site has no accountabilty. There should be a board set up that contains rabbonim plus people who are experts in this field.
Besuros tovos.
Agree
I agree with the article
In my opinion, the website is looking for revenge – not problem solving.
all of the people exposed on the site have family members that will be scared for life due to this irresponsible website. there are other responsible ways to do this without ruining the lives of innocent bystanders.
two wrongs dont make a right!
Bichor...
To all of the BIG TALKERS, how would YOU run the website, WHO would you have on the board, WHAT would your criteria be to post a molester.
Would it have to be YOUR child molested in front to 2 Rabbis, a lawyer an investigator a psychiatrist and a few businessmen.
Now you will have 2 reputable witness a lawyer and an investigator to help you determine if it actually happened and psychiatrist to HELP “YOU” deal with the emotional trauma of seeing the most repulsive thing EVER to be imagined happen to someone you love.
You should only have happiness and never need to call CHW to help you out
schneur
in every generation we need a hidden vigilante or a hidden tzadik. CHW is that its something that may be hated but is neccesary for the greater good to root the evil out.
Dubble Standard = Suspicious
Why show compassion ONLY to the physical victim of the ill-predator??
why not show equal mercy & compassion to the non-physical victim?? the ill-predator’s spouse children relatives etc,
these victims are also humans, & do not deserve to be brutally shamed in public by virtue of their biological birth fortune,
who is protecting all these secondary victims?? why dont they and their anguish matter??
maybe, CHW is more about anger & revenge (irrespective of Compassion) and not motivated by concern for victims emotional anguish??
every medical doctor knows that chemical castration is 99.9% effective in permanently & safely removing any vestige of sxual urge (deviant or not)
the fact that CHW refused to exhaust all possible options to prevent the extreme emotional anguish to the sick-person’s family, speaks volumes about their “Compassion” & interest to minimize suffering,
Why not offer family members, the opportunity to have an intervention with their “ill” family member, to consider chemical hormonal correction… to save all the preventable victims, family & physical…
Many victims of this abuse are independantly mired in pre-existing problems, which is why they are unfortunately easy prey for predators, many of these victims sadly seem all too eager, to focus all their attention on their abuser & revenge, never really seeking to widen their quest for proper treatment, & unfortunately (very often) they end up becoming the very abuser they despised!
get proper treatment instead of wrapping your self up in self righteous resentment, if you were truly compassionate, you would seek ways to accomplish prevention & protect family members,
besides, most real Addicts, cant help it, they are like Compulsive gamblers who will be taken over by their Addiction even at the expense of going back to jail over and over
chemical castration is far more effective & with a motivated family, far more likely to save future victims
agreed
Superb point. I too could build a site and smear anyone, but why build a whole site when it seems I can just use CHW to smear anyoneAND remain anonymous?
mendel
I once emailed him asking how in tmhe world he gets his “proof” without any police help and the response was they have a team of six backed by “many big lawers”
What makes these people qualified?
What kind of “proof” are they gathering?
If someone is officialy convicted, put him up for all to see! But otherwise, who made them both judge and jury?
Danny
You don’t cure evil with evil. a little light can shine in the biggest darkness. the people that do bad things have to do teshuva, maybe they did. if they are not dangerous anymore there is no need to advertise it. if they are still dangerous go to the police. This website is not less evil the the abusers. perhaps someone will involve the FBI for internet crime. look it up in google. Ask a criminal lawyer or contact the FBI unit for internet crime.
to #75
There are many therapists, many lawers, many detectives, many in the DA, and countless individuals who OPENLY work on these cases. Why is there not one person who says “yes, I’ve worked with CHW. I vouch for them.”
chw admirer
you fool!!!! only because of chw are your kids protected!!!!!!!!! you dont want to know the devastation!!!!!
My humble opinion...
This is just my opinion and I could be wrong:
To everyone who wants to know why CHW is not public, please do a little research on why Rabbi Benzion Twerski, Ph.D. (the Chasidic expert in sexual abuse in the frum community) resigned…
To quote Rabbi Twerski, Ph.D.
Rabbi Twerski stated that he resigned because he felt that his children were being pressured from within their Chasidic community over his public dealings with the issue of sexual abuse. He said his children asked him to resign.
So if Rabbi Twerski, Ph.D., who graduated with a Ph.D. in psychology resigned due to the “pressure” and since then NOBODY has done anything. I don’t think anybody has the right to criticize CHW. If anybody has a better idea please step forward and implement it.
My opinion
I don’t think anyone should judge or look down at innocent family members. They are not not the guilty ones.
I am sure, that so much abuse was avoided bec. of the fear of being on chwatch
If you have a better way to take care of the problem, then do it.
I do hope chwatch will start looking if the person stopped for good and did teshuva before posting, if they don’t already do that
p.s. My computer is acting wierd, it’s too small to correct spelling mistakes
deeply saddened
If someone wants olam haba they should get this website shut down by contacting the DA or the NY attourney general. Such a “registry of offenders” must be done either by DA or by a non anonymous group of rabbonim that are advised by clinical professionals. To have a viritual lynch mob target random individuals based on “their research” is scandalous! Can these people truly proclaim beyond shaddow of doubt…
For all you giddy people wanting info telling yourself that you have nothing to fear because you are clean of sin, what if you wake up tomorrow morning to see your father or brothers picture and name added to ther “registry”. If you are single, good luck on getting a shidduch. I for one am not buying the molarchy and think there is a hot place of gehenom for these individuals involved in the site who deviously dance on the misfortune of others. They even once posted an article written by a mother of a victim saying why she has zero compassion for the alleged offender’s mother who begged her to pity her son. When I submitted a comment defending the mother of alleged offender writing that it wasn’t her fault what happened etc. and that if allegations are true, he did it from his own free will and the mother ought not to be blamed, they didn’t even post my comment! They only posted the comments submitted by the lynch mob.
maddness
Mark my words:
An alleged offender listed on that site and/or parent/sibling will commit suicide and that website will have blood on its hands. It is beyond me that the DA doesn’t shut down the site in its present form. I’ve never heard of an anonymous judge and jury. This is maddness! Hashem yirachem!
Offenders ought to be dealt with, but not in the way these rank amateurs are which as they spiritually slit their throats (the shame…), they are doing so to their family members as well.
If the site gets closed down, one day the person who’s behind the site will thank the DA or whoever for doing so.
to 86
Right, beecause Batman works for CHW too you know. Saving us all so we need not worry.
Appreciation to CHW...
There are basically two types of people:
Proactive – who determine that something needs to be done.
Reactive – wait for the situation to work itself out and when it doesn’t. You work on it only because you are forced to.
Example, if eastern parkway did not have any red lights, cross walks etc. What would be the response?
Proactive – would put up stop signs, cross walks, anything possible to save the pedestrian (your kids)
Reactive – A. somebody else will take care of it. B. I will warn my kids to be careful. C. it is not in my power to fix. D the weather is bad. Etc etc…
Bottom line.
CHW is the only Jewish organization that took the responsibility upon themselves to be proactive to:
Warn everybody about the pedophile epidemic.
Protect your kids by putting child molesters where they belong – in prison.
Help victims deal with the trauma.
What has anybody else done? Nothing…
Complain how it could be better? Do something about it…
If only, if only, if only you would be proactive, you would be successful in your life.
To all the complainers, does anybody know that an active child molester lives less than half a block away (a few houses from the corner) from Oholei Torah on eastern parkway between Kingston and Brooklyn on the same side as the Yeshiva. Do you know that he sits outside the house when the kids come and go to school? Is Oholei Torah doing anything about it?
If not for CHW I would not know about it.
Thank you CHW for helping my wife and I watch our kids.
to 92
Excellent comparason to street lights, except they have a clear way of fuctioning that all agree to and isn’t just one man hitting a button whenever he feels like stopping someone and answers to no one.
Thanks CHW. Now my wife and I hardly know what’s really going on. Best never leave the home
at you 92
Whatever good the website serves cannot justify the damage it does wrongly. The point isn’t to get rid of such a site. The point is you can’t have such things run by renegade self-appointed watch dogs with no credit.
if even once they...
If even once, as in the case of Pikarsky mentioned above, if even ONCE someone was listed there and then removed; it means THEY DID NOT know for sure. Yet they posted anyway and removed it iether because it was wrong or something worse. But does it matter? He’s still ruined!
there-s good and then there-s qualified
Are doctors good?
Yes
Can anyone walk into a hospital and prescribe medecine?
No!
Are police officers good?
Yes
Can anyone grab a gun and start patrolling the streets?
No!
Is such kind a website good?
Yes
But what do we have here?
didn-t post my earlier comment
You should have posted my previous comment about the homosexual problem in CH among consenting young adults. It’s a deep spiritual sickness, and is defined in the psychological diagnostic manual as a mental illness.
i so agree with 22
22. THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OG MY HEART wrote:
Members of crown heights watch, I fully support you and know what you deal with on a daily basis, and the research you do on every predator to make sure you don’t make a mistake.
I know plenty of people that have not been posted yet and their victims have come to you guys.
I salute you for your work and what you have done, changed and what you will continue to do at the risk of your own life’s. You are the only people brave enough to protect the children that are not even your own.
I am jealous of your places in the world to come.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart
to 37
to 37 yor dreeming get out of LO LO world but it would be nice if that was your comment was true
Anyone with better ideas?
I consult CHW occasionally. I neither oppose it nor endorse it. Rather, I look upon it as a statement of how our culture and community are developing. We have been beset with total blockage of abuse cases being reported, assessed, and adjudicated. This is a backlash, and it strives to serve a single purpose, a gap in services that has been painful for all. The secrecy of all cases of credible accusation of abuse has been the rule. Only those situations in which there was coverage by the vultures of the secular media (and the chilul Hashem that accompanies that) were known to anyone. Coverups were tight, and these could involve anyone in power in the community. Crown Heights was no different from any frum community.
What we undeniably need is a community board that includes rabbonim, professionals, and various others who can contribute to the management of complaints and the dispositions. For a variety of reasons, mostly for which we should feel ashamed, this is unlikely to ever happen anywhere. CHW is the grassroots response that undertakes to do some degree of investigation, and to spread the word about the caution needed to protect innocent, unsuspecting children. I applaud that. I do not know whether there are violations of the law here, and I would hope the anonymous webmasters covered themselves from that angle.
Someone referenced the Twerski story. One lesson to take from there is that being involved in this issue under the lights and cameras carries negative consequences. Exposure, even while trying to help, is risky. Those threatening were clearly among the uninformed, some even stupid. What choices were left except to leave the public eye, continuing to work to protect children without publicity. CHW probably has the backing of professionals of various sorts and rabbonim. And the absence of their names from the website should be no surprise. There are too many imbeciles out there who would fight them.
The discussion about teshuvah is irrelevant. There is never a situation in which a posek or bais din is permitted to calculate guilt or innocence, or even future risk based on teshuvah. Perpetrators must do teshuvah, but that is not the business of any human – it is between Hashem and the individual. You might consider the change of character that is associated with professional help, therapy. There is no support for the contention that someone who has been a molester can be “cured”, or have his risk dropped to zero. Improvement, perhaps, but is that adequate enough to be considered no risk? Not when I consider the safety of my own children. And I will not permit exposure to other children that I would not approve for my own.
To those against CHW – recognize what need this site was made to meet. If you have a better way to accomplish it, then suggest it and carry it through to completion. Don’t just throw stones at it. Maybe you have better ideas.
81makes some good points, y no response?
selective rachmanus is not rachmanus its vendetta disguised as rachmanus,
…..
if they really had rachmanus they would not elect to knowingly destroy entire families in ways more painful than the original victim!!
i support the chemical treatment, if they were truly out to prevent innocent from being hurt they would not opt for shaming scores of people for each accused offender
shay
How do you think they get their proof? Their victims come forward!!!! They do not put up people wihout intensely investigating and proof from victims. How do you go to sleep at night knowing there are predators out there? Do you have children? Why on earth would anyone want this website shut down? Are you doing anything to protect our children? If these people were innocent, it will come out. The people who created chwatch are literally risking their lives, I am sure there are many people who would not hesitate to hurt or even kill them if they knew. I dont know who they are but I would sure like to meet them and give them my support while the rest of you sit back and allow our childrens safety to be compromised.
To British Bochur, Menachems friend, etc
@BRITISH BOCHUR: At first I thought you were lying about being a victim, b/c what victim would say that? But the truth is, more likely, you never got decent therapy. You sound like those victims who grow up to be perps. You apparently held it in for your entire childhood an teenage years with no one but your oppressors to teach you right from wrong. You were RAISED to believe this was no big deal. Wait until you’re married and have kids. If you haven’t gotten proper therapy by then I predict you’ll be in above your head.
@Friend of Menachem: Oh please. Piekarsky admits to the abuse on his own blog describing it as his way of handling his depression. And even admits that it is because of his threats to name his victims that CHW took his name down.
@Everyone else: Oh, if only you knew the how carefully CHW checks out any accusation they receive. And no, it’s never based on just one person’s accusation. Before outing any name rabbonim are consulted as well as a respected psychologist and they work with advice from the police department. Not only that, but they pay out of their own pockets for victims to get therapy…at $75 an hour!!!
Yeah, our Rabbis are lining up to take that kind of responsibility.
says who?
Everyone says CHW has “intense investigations” and “backed by man profetionals” (who would otherwise be working openly as they always do but for some reason have to remain secret only when it comes to CHW)
So
How do we all know this?
i can write it too
CHW actually has 12 highly respected rabonim, two lawers, many in the NYPD sex crimes unit, detectivs in the FBI, and phsycologists all working for them. This is true because I said so in this comment :p
@ 37
Most of the people you list already OPENLY deal with these things. Kinda makes you wonder why no one has ever heard of anyone working with CHW
And so their victoms come foward? So what?! I too could come foward as anyone I want. It’s not like I have to talk to any police or deal with legal matters. And in the end no one will know who I am anyway
to 103
Wow. You seem to have the info we don’t have
from 98 to chw volunteers
dont worry CHW the bigest ocomplisurs in histery had menny people criticze them like king david so this is how you know that you are aucceeding keep up the good work
to 108
Glad to see their supporters have such wonderful spelling.
At any rate these “ocomplisurs” didn’t hide from from their “menny criticzers” as the mysterious knights of the CWH round table do.
To 109…
Big talker that you are, why don’t “you” do something about the molesters and have your name on it. I don’t think you would last too long. Maybe your kids will be booted out of the yeshiva as the principal has a nephew or a cousin seven times removed that you are trying to put away etc.. all your talk is irrelevant and humorous. Do something with that wonderful English talent that you have.
109 to 110
Ah I see how it is. We have, we must, we will accept any and all that. CHW says simply because no one better is doing it. We must agree that they are profetional based on the fact that there are no proffetionals
109 to 110
I for one fully realize and know I’m not qualified aand have no bussiness becoming a self-proclaimed watch-dog who works in secret and answers to not a soul
agree with 109
Well who says the site owners have to reveal themselves? AT LEAST have ONE goyshe pro endorse it.
Think about the big picture.
Puhleeze! If nothing or no one else steps up to do to do the right thing, then this is what we’ve got. At least some of us are trying to do SOMETHING. I will participate here until the situation is dealt with appropriately. The Catholic church was forced into it, and now at least they have a base line to move on from. It’s painful, yes. At the same time, at least in the future things will have been built upon a bima of truth, not shame and destruction.