Op-Ed Response: Solving the C.A.Y. Problem
Yisroel Newman makes an interesting point in his op-ed, Chevra Ahavas Yisroel, One Year Later: CAY has no business holding itself out as an official shul in Crown Heights unless it complies with the community’s standards. Therefore, if CAY wishes to continue operating in Crown Heights, it has an obligation to the community to change the way it operates.
Of course, if some of the people who currently attend CAY don’t like those changes, they’re free to leave and go daven on their own. Maybe — if they’re lucky — there will be enough of them to form a minyan. Not “officially,” of course, but perhaps quietly in someone’s basement, where they won’t offend anyone. And maybe they’ll tell their friends about it. And their friends will come, enjoy it, and tell their friends about it, too. And maybe through word of mouth the number of people attending this unofficial basement non-shul will grow exponentially. Maybe they’ll even become the talk of the town. Maybe people will become so intrigued by this organic movement that they’ll write articles or op-eds about it “ad nauseam.” Some of those pieces will be thoughtful, others mindless; some supportive, some indignant. But it really doesn’t matter. Because, after all, this is just an unofficial, non-community-sanctioned, organic movement, formed independently by unassuming people who wanted to do their own thing and not be bothered.
Actually, no. Of course it matters. Once this private project becomes visible and popular, there is a danger that some might erroneously think of it as an official, community-sanctioned “shul.” Attaching such a label to it would be misleading at best and disastrous at worst, given the damaging and shameful guilt-by-association that would inevitably be thrust upon everyone who lives within a two-mile radius.
So, to deal with this problem and avert this calamity, I have drafted the following proposed regulation for the community’s review and ratification. Special thanks to Yisroel Newman for providing much of its operative language.
REGULATION OF CROWN HEIGHTS CONGREGATIONS
§ 1. General Rule
a. Every congregation existing and operating within the Orthodox Jewish Community of Crown Heights shall adhere to the rules the Community follows. Such rules include, but are not limited to —
1. Halacha;
2. extra boundaries that must be kept lest one be “Poretz Geder.” This includes any stringency which the Crown Heights Orthodox Jewish Community has accepted upon itself, including, but not limited to, the rules of Tznius as defined and interpreted by the Council on Righteousness And Piety (see Section 2); and
3. any other rules, regulations, strictures, or customs promulgated by the Council on Righteousness And Piety, including, but not limited to, those contained in opinion editorials featured on community websites.
§ 2. Council on Righteousness and Piety
a. Generally — For purposes of enforcing this regulation, there shall be established a governing body known as the Council on Righteousness And Piety.
b. Composition — The Council on Righteousness And Piety comprises any and all male individuals who, within the past 12 months, have publicly — on the internet or in any other public forum — criticized, rebuked, or admonished any congregation (as defined in section 4) for any conduct that, if verified to have occurred, would constitute a violation of section 1.
c. Authority — The Council on Righteousness And Piety shall have the full, unfettered discretion to determine whether a congregation has violated the terms of section 1, and to select the precise wording, tone, and content of any op-ed written pursuant to section (3)(a)(2).
§3. Penalties for Violation
a. If a congregation is found by the Council on Righteousness And Piety to be in violation of section 1 of this regulation, a self-appointed member of the Council on Righteousness And Piety, known as the “Protector of All,” shall —
1. upon the congregation’s first violation — raise his objections with the Rabbi and give him a copy of a teshuva from Rabbi Moshe Feinstein z’l (or other comparable authority) supporting the validity of his objection;
2. upon any further violation — write and publish a strongly worded op-ed, which, at a minimum, shall contain —
A. a backhanded compliment of the congregation, reasonably calculated to mitigate any appearance of unreasonableness;
B. a claim that the Protector of All and his views represent and accurately reflect the standards and collective moral conscience of the community;
C. language and tone that may reasonably be characterized as smug, condescending, meddling, patronizing, self-righteous, intolerant, holier-than-thou, arrogant, or closed-minded;
D. a grave and serious accusation that the leader(s) of such congregation blatantly ignored problematic halachic issues and continued to deviate from normative halacha (as defined by the Protector of All); and
E. a declaration that such congregation is not welcome or fit to be in the Community, along with a passive-aggressive concluding request that they relocate elsewhere.
§ 4. “Congregation” Defined
a. For purposes of this regulation, a “congregation” is any group of persons that meets on a regular basis, at a designated location, for purposes of engaging in religious or spiritual activity, and which —
1. assigns to itself, its members, or location any official name or title that contains Hebrew words or lends itself to readily identifiable acronyms; or
2. creates, maintains, or operates on Facebook any “profile,” “group,” “page,” or “event” that publicizes or encourages people to participate in its activities.
b. Notwithstanding the preceding subsection, residents of Crown Heights shall be permitted to do as they please in small groups, provided they —
1. do so of their own free will and volition;
2. confine their activities to an indoor basement, flower shop, or other inconspicuous location;
3. do not force their views or practices upon unwilling persons; and
4. do not hold themselves out to the public as representing the beliefs, practices, or ideals of the rest of the community.
c. Special rule for large or popular groups — No group shall be permitted to do as they please if, due to its popularity or demand, the size of such group exceeds 10 persons and includes both male and female members. In the event that members of such group nonetheless choose to cultivate their personal relationship with God in a manner meaningful to them but objectionable to the Council on Righteousness And Piety, such groups shall —
1. be deemed to have willfully encroached upon the privacy of all residents of Crown Heights, forced evil and sin upon them, and hijacked and contaminated the beliefs, practices, and ideals of the Community; and
2. be subject to the full, obnoxious brunt of whiny op-eds by the self-anointed Protector of All, as set forth in section (3)(a)(2).
This Op-Ed reflects the views of its author. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CrownHeights.info or its Editors.
Any reader that wishes to make his or her voice heard, on any topic of their desire, is welcome to submit his or her Op-Ed to News@CrownHeights.info.
1234567890
Oh shut up already, all of you
cl
truth is that they already have their places to do mixed socializing, so why DOES the shul provide that. They know where they can go. they are not 16 – 18 crowd who needs to have the “Aliyah” treatment of being mekarev. they are adults and they can conduct themselves like menschen.
Anonymous
CAY is so accepting that even the writer of the oped “CAY a year later” is allowed to Davens there.
doh!!
thank you. remember to be true to your shul.
Yisroel Newman
I’m glad my op-ed touched a sore point that you had to make such a satirical article.
sum guy
WOW!!!! WHAT A GREAT PIECE!!!!
I think that if you would have taken the time it took to compile this humorous, albeit true compilation of shtus – and just looked into a SHULCHAN ARUCH – you would have found all the laws concerning a proper Shul and all that’s associated therein.
P.S. When a Jew, ANY JEW – decides to go directly against the Torah & Halacha – whether he’s in a basement, yankee stadium, grand central station or madison square garden – he is subject to whatever is necessary to show him/her the folly of this behavior.
You are behooved by less than complimentary remarks – about YOUR conduct that flies in the face of everything holy and pure….SO STOP DOING IT!
By demonstrating to the world one’s apathy towards spiritual life – you are effectively committing spiritual suicide. Conversely, one is obligated – both morally and ethically to prevent another from committing spiritual suicide just as physical suicide.
I-m a Jew and I-m proud
I feel like I’m in Germany. Maybe I should wear a yellow star as well. Oh no, then I might be confused with some other group that is comprised of more than 10 terrorists in this neighborhood. Get rid of them first then come back to me.
Yanks
The idea of a breakaway shul is nothing new in any Jewish community – in that sense, they are no different than early “denominational” Jews who claimed that traditional halachic standards no longer applied to them when in reality, they felt let down by those whom they should have respected. CAYers are merely defending a sense of entitlement while holding a mirror up to those who “owe” them. Pitiful, if anything.
Let’s also not forget that CAY is a reactionary movement. That is, it exists mainly because its members feel discriminated against. Like any other ill-formed support group, why not just give them space and cry themselves to sleep?
the Bais Hamikdash all over again?
You sarcastic idiot. You think you’re funny? You’re not. You’re just making the situation worse. The irony is, you make a very good basic point: that everyone who lives in a community WITH STANDARDS (whether or not you agree with them) either has to abide by them or cause a revolution & destroy them.
The problem with the second option is the “collateral damage” – the destruction of the mainstream shuls that the rest of us frequent through “new” standards, the standards we try to instill into our children at home & school that are diluted more & more & the general low morality of Crown Heights (which is getting worse by the day.) Every day brings new lows to this once proud & Chassidishe neighborhood.
There is one basic point that you all conveniently forget: before Gimmel Tammuz NO ONE WOULD THINK OF BEHAVING IN WAYS THAT GO AGAINST HALACHA. NO ONE WOULD CAUSE PAIN TO THE REBBE.
No one went on Kingston half naked, not covering their hair (or, in the case of some men from Crown Heights today, bare-headed.) Pre Gimmel Tammuz, no one would dare behave like they do today.
Which makes me ask: was it all an act? Was it all fraud? Do we have such lack of love for the Rebbe, such a lack of respect that as soon as Gimmel Tammuz happened all standards flew away?
I hurt not for myself or my children. B“H I am proud that they all adhere to the standards they saw at home & in school & at the feet of the Rebbe (although some are too young even in their early twenties to remember much.) I am proud that B”H EVERY ONE OF MY CHILDREN IS FRUM. Some are Shluchim.
I worry for my grandchildren, especially the ones who live here. Truth to tell, judging from what I see & kids I personally know, Bnei & Bnos Shluchim, my Shluchim grandchildren are also in danger. I worry they will be barely frum, playing with Halachas & Minhagim Chabad to suit their needs & wants.
The good news is that I won’t live long enough to see the worst of it. The bad news is there’s enough now to cause me real agmos nefesh.
CAY isn’t even the beginning of the end of Crown Heights as we knew it. It’s actually quite far along the path of self-destruction. It’s just much more open than it was 10 years ago.
Everyone screams about no leadership. That’s a very valid point. The “Rabbonim” only care about pursuing their own power. They are the most corrupt Gang of 2/3 of our generation. May G-d have mercy on them in Olam Habah after 120 years: I hope it is better than the mercy they show us here in Olam Hazeh.
We need to regroup. I don’t know how. But surely, with the real Chassidishe Yungermen & upcoming Rabbonim (I don’t mean self-serving people like Boteach or the Jacobsons) someone can make changes? Surely someone can root out the corruption in “public” office and give us secular leadership that causes pride not shame?
In my opinion this community is so badly flawed we are doomed. Many people post how happy they are they don’t live here. 20 years ago people were looking to move in! It was mamash Gan Eden on earth, to be here by the Rebbe. Our only hope is the next generation, maybe even my grandchildren’s. But CAY is not the answer. CAY just feeds the sickness. It isn’t curing anything.
Funny
Jokes such as this don’t cover up the facts that this shul/unofficial group is the worst thing crown heights has ever seen
DaasTorah
This article is a joke, right? Because if it’s not then someone lives a very sad life.
anon
With your tongue so firmly in cheek I hope you don’t bite it.
A shul that disobeys halacha is on par with ay reform, conservative, etc gathering place(once a single halacha [not hiddur or chumra] is broken and accepted by the ‘shul’, it’s no longer a place of kedusa. If they follow all the halachas-no matter how meikel-then like cholov stam or non-glatt meat, it’s not for us, but we need to leave those who go there alone.Just ignore it. If a halacha is being violated, we have every right to criticize until they fix the problem
Mad magazine rules!!
If this person, Yisroel Newman, is a real person, and he really has the free time and lack of anything else going on in his life to spend his time writing articles complaining about CAY, then he should hand out with his namesake: Mr Alfred E. Newman aka the hero of Mad Magazine. They both have the same maturity level and common sense. It must be something about the name…..
check yourself
In your satirical piece, you spelled out the full English representation of Hashem, ven though the rest of the frum world uses a dash between G and d
check yourself
yes, I know I made some typos in comment 8, but the point still stands. Except for Chumashim, siddurim, and the like, the frum world doesn’t put the letter ‘o’ between G and d.Except, it seems, in certain of our own publications. What gives?
I don-t understand?
Can someone say what they are doing that is so terrible?
hey
wheres the ahavas yisroel!
Mushka
Hi author of this article- I’m writing a research paper (or trying to). You seem to have great writing skills and plenty of time- any interest in a job???
What The Hell
Are you kidding me this kind of behaviour and talk is all wrong for this community half of this commnity is BT and without the Ahavas yisroel and understanding of the level by the REBBE that YOU were on half these comments wouldn’y be up so get a life all of you and eb mor elike the rebbe
c.r.a.p. call it what it is!
Not being in CH, all I know is a woman gave a speech in front of men from the last op-ed. This is a great response. I’d love to be President-in-Situ of the Council on Righteousness And Piety!
the bigger picture
at least they dont speak when davening like some other shuls…
Eli Soble
Great article!! Listen up all you self righteous haters! Take 5 minutes and read the news – quake in mexico , pakistan gonna shoot down U.s drones , 50k marching against Putin , world economy hanging on by central banks exponentially increasing the money supply thread , class warfare picking up steam in the USA , Iran nuke situation, Islamic movements gains in Egypt and Libya, and your gonna spend time bashing your fellow Jews who are creating a thriving positive magnet ??!!?? LOOK OUTSIDE THE FISHBOWL! We need unity to get through what is coming to Moshiach! Not these ludicrous, destructive public debates! If you have suggestions or criticisms for CAY i am sure there is a productive and constructive way you can deliver it IN PERSON. Attacking them on a site like this serves no good purpose. Great response from the author of this article.
curious but content
just curious, have any of these haters/ anti CAY, ever been to the shul? or are they just making stuff up.
Ive been there and have yet to see any of the garbage portrayed by all these negative comments. All i see @ CAY is a bunch of people yearning to daven in a non-judgemental atmosphere.
actually, the women @ CAY dress alot more modestly then those attending 770 and beis shmuel. Y isnt any1 writting about them?
Did you know that the women @ 770 talk so loudly I can barely hear the chazan. Did u know when attending beis shmuel I get confused between the wives and the shikses.
Maybe we should address the fact that the whole porch on the women side is full of single high school girls squealing as opposed to davening. or the fact that big $ can pay any1 to stay quiet.
What is it about CAY that have people so bothered?
What i do know is that until the rabbonim get their act together, i cant really blame any of my fellow crown heightsers for being so vulnerable.
I wish every1 can find a place of comfort to connect to hashem and the rebbe.
levi
First of all. The people who keep on criticizing CAY seem to be unable to accept the fact that this shul is something that is NEEDED in this community. The author of this op-ed suggests that they pick up and leave. Yet no one complains about all the rest of the shuls in crwon heights where all throughout davening, booze is beiong served in the kitchen, and you can’t even daven over the sounds of the chatter. I’m so sorry that people feel they go against halacha, but they don’t. It’s that simple. Crown heights needed this type of shul for such a long time, I think that people should get over their misconcieved notion of halacha breakers and understand that the rabbi doesn’t condone anything against halacha. I havew more to say but I know it’s useless. People don’t go to shul because of the “proper shuls” in crown heights, and yet there’s all the shouting about a shul that was never meant to be this big. It got to this size because of what it offers. and what it offers is an atmosphere that exceeds every other shul in the shchuna. Whoever has a problem with it is a straight up bigot. Never has there been a shul in this neighborhood where the women of our community feel comfortable. Where people go strictly to have an uplifting davening. I’m not even a member but what I’v seen is great
open door
#16,
its not that its so terrible really, its just that this community was / is founded on the Lubavitcher Rebbe’s ideals which are the values of the Torah….not what the teenagers and youth say it is.
I hope that this clarifies. Nobody is looking to get angry at anyone, but truth is that the beauty of the Rebbe and the depth, compare to no-one else, and we are just trying to give nachas to the Rebbe, and raise Jewish children in the ways of the Rebbe….because, as we are promised, Moshiach is COMING so we want to be prepared.
Suggestion:
to rename this CAY to “Chabad House of Crown Heights.”
Dovid
I davened there and found nothing wrong. Please explain
Yisroel Newman
Yisroel Newman never wrote this article. I wrote an article last week and he’s trying to make a joke of what I have written.
caplan
and denenbeim wants to be recognized by Merkos
what a joke to say the least
my crown heigts
there are bigger problems in this community than CAY! Maybe we should work on the fact that no one and this may be a generalization but no one in this community truly practices ahava yisroel…all we do is criticize and judge everyone! or the fact that the standard of tznius is so poor that girls in this community are objectified. or how about the huge lack of leadership. or the fact that so many kids are falling of the derech full of resentment because they are judged so cruelly instead of being nurtured and accepted. Lets start there before we keep acting holier than though! CAY is the only shul in this community that accepts everyone for who they are! THANK YOU CAY!!!!
refua shelema to cay
i went there a couple of times and the people seemed to be VERY confused. enough with the “accept me for who i am” and have some respect! majority of the people there know better than to come in shul looking like a ben zona.
Wake Up Call
The failure to impart chasidus in a meaningful way in our school systems is the cause of this trend towards “alternative” shuls in CH. The young people are searching and thirsting for an uplifting experience, because they lacked it in the established systems. Don’t yell at them – they are doing something to quench their thirst. If you think you have a solution that can be found in chasidus, bring it on. But screaming against them will only shut their ears.
Anonymous (Author)
Mr. Newman:
I have no dog in this fight; I’m not affiliated with CAY in any way. But if by “sore point” you mean my childish and compulsive need to irreverently deflate pompous preaching by pointing out flaws and fallacies in overblown and underdeveloped arguments, then yes, your op-ed touched — nay, aggressively fondled — that point, and I’m glad you’re glad.
Happy Sunday.
Anon
CAY shouldn’t have to change a thing. This is the United States of America, not of Crown Heights.
If you don’t agree with them, don’t daven there. If you’ve never been there, stop passing ignorant judgment.
“That is, it exists mainly because its members feel discriminated against. Like any other ill-formed support group, why not just give them space and cry themselves to sleep?”
You mean Israel?
yehuda Venice Ca
Listen you People i know when the Idea of CAY came forth, it was in Palm Springs California, (palm Desert) The rav had a goal Of 48 Hr* or 1 week Based on hanukah and Ymim toivim like purim 3 days, Of *Meditations, Being that we today do not have a heter to Skip The 3 tefilos Daily this meditation Must be Interrupted,
Also people in New York in Big Numbers don’t have large farms and Thus Support themselves by Working in Jobs as well and other Obligatory seats Like NYSE and Dautche Bank So the 2 day 3 day 7 day Meditation were not Possible ,
So the Rav is actually getting by to get by, But soon Moshiach is going to come …=VERY SOON And whip you guys into Shape… Especially those of you who think Yidishkeit is All ABout Singing and Dancing, !!!! Peace and real Chezzy Love!
Hadoresh Sholom …
Yakov Yehuda Leib Ben Yosef Dov, Hazak!
Out of control.
So you don’t like when others are obnoxious and self-rightous.
Why stoop to their level.
This op-ed situation is completely out of hand and only stoking the flames of hate within our community.
Yidden (& Yids), holy and otherwise, please stop!
Anonim
Crown Heights is very different from what it was 20 years ago, and Gimmel Tammuz is not the only change.
As Chabad gets bigger BH, we attract more and more people, and more people means different people.
No one is forcing anyone to go to CAY. It does serve a need, and as such it needs to be left alone by anyone who is not in its demographic.
That demographic hardly existed 20 years ago, but we had 1/4 the number of shluchim we have now if that 20 years ago. We also had no Anash living on East New York Avenue and many other places that are now BH full of Yidden.
If you don’t like it, don’t go. Who knows and who cares if it is official – what does that mean anyway? My shul when I lived in CH was official but we did not participate in netzigim to stay away from the politics.
Remember that for some people, the alternative to CAY would be far worse.
BTW I would never set foot in there myself.
Anonim
(I don’t mean self-serving people like Boteach or the Jacobsons)
Huh? The Jacobsons do not belong in the same low category as Boteach. They are similar to DovBer Pinson, Manis Friedman, Leibl Wolf, and many others who may not be for mainstream Anash but who are bringing the message of the Rebbe and Chassidus to different audiences.
Boteach is another story altogether.
Prominant Rabbi-s wife
(Humorous) point well taken,one hopes.
There is nothing happening at Chevra Ahavas Yiroel that is against Halacha.Just another shul,like others, peopled by a specific demographic that feels comfortable there.
Btw, in the women’s section, the attendees range from young women that could be termed very chassidish, to those that might not otherwise attend shul, to middle-aged women, such as myself, that enjoy the davening.
In my humble opinion, I do believe the Rebbe appreciated the innovation and originality that attracted people to observance and practice,and so ably demonstrated by Shluchim worldwide. Why not here?
TO # 9
You make some good points but is it really necessary to ruin it by throwing names of people out there? You even mentioned their names while they are totally unrelated to this article. This is blatant loshon hara and is totally contrary to the heading of your post which speaks about the bais hamikdash. THIS is exactly the kind of thing that destroyed the bais hamikdash in the first place. Instead of showing hate, why not show some love? Make the world a better place and try to fix the problem without hurting other people in the process.
JEWS ARE JEWS
LEAVE THEM ALONE… THEY ARE JEWS TRYING TO DAVEN AND SERVE THE REBBE AND HASHEM JUST IN A DIFFERENT WAY!!!! PEOPLE NEED TO STOP BEING SO JUDGMENTAL AND ANALYTICAL AND START EMBRACING PEOPLE AND HAVING AVAS YISROEL JUST LIKE THE REBBE WOULD HAVE WANTED!!!!!!! THE GEULA WONT COME ANY FASTER IF WE CONTINUE TO HATE PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY IN OUR ON COMMUNITY, OUR OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS!!!!!!
CH old timer
The problem with this shul is that they do not do anything that is 100% against shulchon aruch. They do things just just borderline and do not go against the din. That is what makes it so hard. It is not a good place to have in CH. The people who go against the frum world should move out. (not talking about BTs who are just learning or struggling in the beginning) If they did things against halacha you can fight it but not when they skirt the border line and you really can’t fault them. Oy what has become of us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
good stuff
I can think of like maybe 2-3 people in CH with the brains, talent and knowledge to write this. whoever it was, thanks for the big laugh! you should write more often! (when you’re not busy with REAL law stuff…)
oh and seriosuly, are some people not getting that this article is meant to be a JOKE? It’s called SATIRE!
open mouth
what is the concept of Eubonics….that blacks want to change the system so that they are comfortable with it, to meet THEIR needs. Does anyone get the comparison here
hear, hear...and i second #39!
I, like #39, have started going to “CAY”, and i love it. The davenning is beautiful, there isn’t constant talking going on, I love the commentary given for Krias HaTorah, and so far every dvar Torah given after has been uplifting and wonderful…I do not understand what the problem is. I have not observed anything unorthodox or not Chabad! Honestly, have the nay-sayers BEEN to this shul lately??? Or it most of this just being fed by the rumor mill, and out of spite or perhaps jealousy that what CAY is accomplishing, other shuls have failed to do? I have encountered the same gossip about the shul and people simply don’t know what they are talking about – there is nothing going on in shul on Shabbos that is against halacha!!! Based on what is going on in this community, this shul is aptly named, and many in CH could learn a thing or two (or a million) about real ahavas yisroel….remember what that is, people??????? And all this vehement opposition to CAY…reminiscent of the misnagdim who were so opposed to the chassidic movement. This shul has stirred more emotion and dvekas in me in davenning than in any other shul ever has, except 770 before Gimmel Tammuz – the davenning is truly beautiful and uplifting. Know what you are talking about before you comdemn or believe viscious gossip!
Anonim
CH is not Kfar Chabad. There is no way we can enforce residence requirements in a neighborhood in Brooklyn.
No one is moving out, and many non-affiliated Jews may well be moving in as CH regentrifies.
CAY fills a need. It is not my need, or your need, or the need of people whom I know personally, but the need is there.
Those of us who want to live in a more regulated community should move to Kfar Chabad – nothing wrong with that, but you can’t replicate Kfar Chabad in the US.
To Old Timer
And there’s always a place for the angry young man,
With his fist in the air and his head in the sand.
And he’s never been able to learn from mistakes,
He can’t understand why his heart always breaks.
His honor is pure and his courage as well,
He’s fair and he’s true and he’s boring as hell!
And he’ll go to the grave as an angry old man.
Dovid C.
To #42:
I was for the first time in CAY for the past few weeks, Friday nights were always packed with wall to wall standing room only.
Shabos by day there is hardly any seating room and no one talks during Kriah or Davning.
Live and let live, continue and waste your time with other Gossip\Loshon Horah such as if Yosi Braun is the rov or not the rov, etc.!
Ch resident
A shul must adhere to the CH rabonim.
Why can’t they come visit one Shabbos and see what’s going on.
If they like it, good , if not , not.
Then what? What will the B“D do.
No one is afraid
If you’re not afraid of Hashem than you’re obviously not afraid of the C”H B”D.
That’s the problem
ha!
i cant decide which was better, the article itself or the authors response (to #5) in #33! very clever writer, why isnt he/she affilliated with CAY???
I am #9
To #40
You are right. I apologize & ask Mechila of the people I named.
Thank you for pointing it out to me, I really hadn’t realized. No excuses.
pathetic response
if you want to defend an organization- being sarcastic is the worst way to go…its like your whining about not being recognized
the original article reflected care and concern; this one was immature and reflected the teenage mentality of : let me live the way I want.
If youre jewish than you know that every action affects the wellbeing of every jew.
cutting corners with halacha is playing with fire.
babies are dying because of our negligence whether you care to admit it or not.
A poem for crown heights
“The Times They Are A-Changin’”
Come gather ’round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You’ll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you
Is worth savin’
Then you better start swimmin’
Or you’ll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin’.
Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won’t come again
And don’t speak too soon
For the wheel’s still in spin
And there’s no tellin’ who
That it’s namin’
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin’.
Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don’t stand in the doorway
Don’t block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There’s a battle outside
And it is ragin’
It’ll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin’.
Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don’t criticize
What you can’t understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin’
Please get out of the new one
If you can’t lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin’.
The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin’
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin’
Peace
What is wrong with CAY?
I’ve been there several times friday night and did not see anything wrong. Please clarify.
shliach
For a shul that prides itself with not talking during davening, it shows complete shakrus when this is applied to everyone but the rabbi, while he literally interrupts in the middle of davening, to pause and proceed to make announcements, shmooze with the congregation, call up guest speakers with his back to Hashem (and a full view of the (some immodestly dressed) women) in the middle of Kabolas Shabbos, for the simple purpose of making these speeches while the shul is most populated instead of after davening when people can leave if they don’t want to listen. Trampling the respect of Hashem in favor of respect of the rabbi’s announcements of the weeks “events”. It’s purely reprehensible, plain and simple.
The Rebbe was told about a Chabad House that was conducting a begginers minyan (as cay’s is similar to). The Rebbe made it his business to make it clear to the rabbi who made this grave error that there is no such thing, and it should be stopped immediately.
The last thing one can call cay is a chabad house.
While there may be a mechitza, and they may daven from the same siddur, it doesn’t make it any better than putting up a mechitza in a reform (heretical) shul and davening out of the same siddur.
Furthermore, the abuse of the Torah parading her through a crowd of inappropriately clothed (female) congregants, is explicitly against the halachos of what a Torah can be exposed to (as evidenced by our additionally covering a Torah when taken outside of Shul), additionally at times a woman is not allowed to touch a Torah for the Torah’s sake, parading the Torah through the women’s lobby is asking for exactly that to happen, and therefore further abuses Torah.
Then there is the reconstructionist tunes sung to the davening (yes, carlebach songs). While a mere symptom of the problem, no less a red flag. It seems an arrangement of Chabad tunes (seldom as they appear) would make your congregants uncomfortable, yet you want to think you’re styled after chabad houses.
Aliya is Chabad of Crown Heights, despite some who want to relegate to anything but, as one walks through the door one can feel the Rebbe’s bracha permeating it’s walls, in utter contrast to the avir in cay.
This picture calls into question the very emunah and yiras shomayim of the rabbi of cay, and demonstrates a simple ignorace smong it’s attendees.
A church may attract a large crowd and have melodious tunes but… a mechitza, siddurim, a Torah and Jews in a church or a basement used as one does not make it a Shul.
Cay is tzchok and kalos rosh at it’s prime, and last but not least ga’avah, all masquerading as their opposites.
The Rebbe would banish the leader and institution of cay without a moments hesitation.
VDA”L
To the author, your piece says nothing for your soul knows there is nothing to say in defense.
To #7
Nazi Germany! How dare you belittle what our grandparents went thru. Shame on you! You should ask Mechila of every holocaust survivor that you come across! Go open a history book, putz!
Howard Roark
Not sure if there is any direction or purpose in this digital tide of prose other than it generally provides something for some people for which to feel a sense of purpose, but I’m amused by any exchange in which the notion of “Crown Heights community” is mentioned.
I’ve been here for several decades (but especially after 1994), there is no CH “community”. There are many people with many different standards, morals, values, mindsets, ethics and levels of what is considered acceptable within halacha and Chabad boundaries. Within one shul you can have and see bi-polar behavior. CAY is one reflection of some folks who live in Crown Heights.
Delusional people think there is “one” anything in this area called Crown Heights (and of course the “one” thing they trumpet might just happen to be their perspective).
More importantly, can someone with deep pockets please approach Yechezkael Dennenboim Shilta and provide him funding for a permanent place for “his” “community,” preferably in a location on the “other side” of Eastern Parkway, so that CAY can blossom without getting the wafting noxious flatulence coming from the enlightened ostriches? It will be Tov “LaSchuna.”
Bette Midler
To 52 shliach – (would that be ben [52] shliach?)
so you had to call yourself shliach to validate your comments? and you, know, what the rebbe would do. I guess you are the ultimate shilach – kmoso – and ARE the rebbe now.
why don’t you tell us where you are a shliach? you seem to be intimately aware of what goes on in CAY (and especially on the women’s side of the mechitza).
I wish you lots of love so you can love others. I wish you a healthy sense of purpose in life so you can earn the title shilach. I wish you a congregation who respects you so you don’t need to attempt to disrespect others who already have one. I wish you self-esteem enopugh so that you don’t need to call others on their “ga’avah” and I wihs you healthy psychological and physical health so you can handle all of my other blessings.
You really are a nice seed person underneath all that accumulated snow (with the sun’s love, in the spring, becomes the rose).
Well said
Agree with #52.
chanie
hi z!
crownheights.info must make a killing off of CAY articles.. 50+ comments!!
they should send their maaser there; it will be well spent. the author of this article made me laugh out LOUD. thank you!
Interested Party
We need to fight for CAY rights in America. They are people just like everyone else. In fact, why stop there? Lets have a CAY rights parade down Kingston!
I’d like to check out the shule next time I’m in CH. But wait – that will be never! Oh well.
Yakov Kirschenbaum
BS”D
Why is this op-ed article anonymous?
Did you ever see an anonymous op-ed in the New York Times, NY Post, Daily News or Wall Street Journal?
Council of Righteousness And Piety
That was LEGEND — wait for it — ARY!!!!!!!
Kudos to the author.
hey chanie #60
i also laughed out loud.
love, ma
bottom line
there are the mitzvos bain adam l’chavero, and bain adam l’Makom. YOU HAVE TO DO BOTH!
Mendy Hecht
I do satire for Hamodia and I gotta say that was pretty funny. Cynical, unfortunately, but all too true.
protect your neshama, stay away
the problem with cay is the rabbi.
he has no concern for halacha.
he wants kosher style davening the less the better, not kosher davening.
he judged that the people will not feel comfortable unless as much of the structure of davening and a shul is meddled with.
the point of this shul and it’s davening is to make it least like a kosher shul.
if you need carlebach songs, why not use non-lubavitch trup, since lubavitch trup reminds too much of chassidishkeit.
it’s point is to be holier than thou as demonstrated by it’s coined term for membership “holy yids”, it’s detraction from the way everyone else davens and every other shul as not good enough for them, and it’s attack of anyone who has a detracting view of the shul, as if having a view of the est that is any less than stellar is an offense.
for some reason, a shul with a proper chassidishe davening (with chabad niggunim as desired, as besht does) , and traditional conduct (the women’s section for the women, not the rabbi during davening and the Torah), a traditional kriyas hatorah, a shliach tzibbur and rabbi who wears a tallis as the Rebbe perscribed is proper (instead of like a person who doesnt know better), and a name advertising acceptance of Jews is not acceptable TO THE RABBI and by his estimation (he is himself leading this trend, and fine-tuning the “style”) not enough to appeal to young jews in crown heights.
supposedly, action must be taken to corrode all aspects of a shul and davening to appeal to the wayward souls.
this is what the shul is predicated upon.
i find this an insult to the congregation, for they would surely come to shul were the excessive infractions minor or otherwise not running rampant.
suddenly a specifically not traditionally jewish atmosphere is equated by the rabbi as a welcoming one for the congregants, not simply the soulful melodious davening.
would the women feel less comfortable if the rabbi didnt push aside the mechitza to gawk at them in the middle of davening every time he speaks.
is this what ahavas yisroel in this shul means.
why cant a shul conducts itself as a shul traditionally does, and just add chabad melody to the davening to increase soul, warmth and focus without corroding davening, the shul atmosphere and halacha, or adding songs of “outside” influences.
this is not about bringing wayward souls to davening/shul, its about bringing davening/shul down to the gutters where this rabbi see’s these souls as being (no i do not).
there is nothing right about this shul, and ahavas yisroel is upheld only in support of the shul, while the rest of the community is denigrated in the process.
it’s noteworthy to mention, i know of this shul under the supervision of the rabbi banishing congregants with threats of danger and using violence, for having torah views not consistent with their platform.
the name is a ploy to cast irony on anyone who wishes to challenge it’s platform, not a reflection of unbiased acceptance of fellow jews.
i hope the shul being in the rubashkin’s basement doesn’t bring additional kitrug to the rubashkin family.
may the banishment of this shul from the rubashkin home bring hatzola to reb sholom rubashkin.
Rivka B.
ha! Makes me laugh, live and let live is my slogan;
G-D sees the heart! Let’s just stop this annoying negativity!
Shalom to all!
To #62
Yakov:
Those publications most certainly do have anonymous op-eds — they’re called editorials. But that aside (since this site — to its credit — does not employ me on its editorial staff), it’s pretty standard for satirical articles to be published anonymously. Check out The Onion, for example.
Yours anyway,
Anonymous
Esq.
Very well written piece. I enjoyed it immensely. Bravo.
cma
Pathetic. You are bored and not funny.
Bracha @Mtl
#53, well put.
#53
i have always liked that bob dylan song.
these cay op ed all this stuff is strange, why do pepole not see.
Don-t Flatter Yourselves, CH
Those squawking about the lack of tznius among the women of CAY need to clean up their own backyards before they go knocking on their neighbors’ doors. The first time I ever visited Crown Heights I was downright APPALLED by the style of dress and conduct of the women at 770. Is this where you’d have me daven?
Shame on your for attacking the rabbi! He’s the only person willing to deal with the herd of cats you call ‘Chabad Lite’. If you’d all done such a great job of parenting your kids and showing them the beauty of Torah mitzvos, you wouldn’t have to complain about a roving band of supposedly off the derech young people congregating together. Open your eyes! These people are trying to serve Hashem! You on the other hand, are pushing them away with your hateful attitudes.
To a relative newbie such as myself, you’re all making absolute fools of yourselves. Chevra is the best thing that ever happened to your community and you should be thankful it’s in place. If it weren’t, G-d only knows where your young people would be.
You make me wish I’d never moved here. Clearly the Rebbe doesn’t live here anymore.
momBH
I have to say that I am among the people FOR chevra ahavas yisroel. The davening is the best I have heard since I became a baalas tshuvah. Someone tried to get me to stop going and I went to 770 and I got to hear all about certain people’s wedding plans as they were OBVIOUSLY more important than the davening. Wake up folks! Tznius is NOT the most important problem we have in crown heights. AHAVAS YISROEL is! People want to be mekarav because they want to be like you and not so you can get a few more brownie points. and CAY brings a standing room only crowd TO SHUL. Most of those people would not be there if it didn’t exist. You don’t like CAY- then form a tznius shul where there is no talking (and that includes MONEY!) Many shuls I can’t stand to go into because I don’t need the comments about how I don’t measure up to the gashmiusdike standards. No bugaboos or shevy wigs for me. No fancy vacations and I don’t cook like Julia Child. Form a tznius shul where it is a sheer pleasure to be there. Folks the laws against lashon hara weren’t created by the chofetz chayim. Those are actual halachot in the Torah. But until we have a chabad mehadrin shul I’ll stick to CAY.
Yakov Kirschenbaum to #62
BS”D
The editorials always (or almost always) have the authors’s name. Go on their websites and see for yourself. Aderaba: The author is prood of his writing and wants people to know he wrote it.
I don’t know about the Onion, but that’s a satirical paper. Most of the op-eds on this website and the others are not satirical. This article too is not really satirical, it’s more like angry sarcasm. The anonymous author is trying to seriously address something very serious.
To YK / # 76
No, you’re confusing general op-eds with editorials. Here are some of the (anonymous) editorials being published today (12/14) in each of the publications you listed:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011…
http://online.wsj.com/artic…
http://www.nydailynews.com/…
If you’re still not satisfied, Wikipedia would also tell you that “[e]ditorials are usually unsigned.”
I’ll certainly concede that this article wasn’t an editorial; I’m just saying that your assertion @ 62 (and repeated @ 76) was false.
K, bye.
Can you tell?
Go ahead! Criticize! Complain! Present yourself as if where you go is perfect and preferable! I beg to differ with you! And I (and THEY) have just as much right to decide for myself (THEMSELVES) as you do. If you think the Rebbe would be o.k. with these negative, judgmental, unaccepting, even hateful comments, maybe you could stop and think more deeply. Perhaps try stepping aside within your place of davening as an observer. What do you see or hear many women doing? (Or if you’re a man, ask a woman what they see or hear as an observer.) The suggestion is to try to be objective. What are the children doing? Is there an air of respect for the environment or purpose? Is there texting going on? Are men talking rather than davening? What do you observe? How does it compare with CAY? Similarities? Differences? Do you OWN Crown Heights? Are you in charge of the choices of others? Do you know of a preferable alternative backed with concrete preferable examples as to why it is preferable? Have you asked them what they prefer about CAY? Can you listen to each other? I find the distasteful comments very nonspiritual, yet you present yourself as judges of another’s spiritual endeavors. Very distasteful, and sounds very small- minded and and small-hearted. Where did you learn to communicate? I am annoyed and frustrated. Can you tell?