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Op-Ed: Solving the Shidduch Crisis

by Naftali Cohen

It is not necessary to go into detail to describe the urgent crisis that is currently taking place in our midst regarding Shidduchim.

To overview briefly:

•Girls of marriageable age remain single at a staggering rate.

•Girls are increasingly going off the proper Derech because they lose hope of ever being able to find a good Shidduch within the community.

•The deteriorating standards in Tznius in our community are a direct result of the pressure and desperation caused by this.

•Shaddchonim are unable to help these girls, because the parents of the boys are always holding out for ‘better,’ while the parents of the girls are not satisfied with what is being suggested.

•As a result, girls are not being given a chance to meet the type of Bochur they are interested in, and vice versa.

•These young women are ensnared in this perpetual ‘catch 22,’ where the one that is good enough is looking for better, and the one that is interested is not good enough. The parents of a good Bochur dare not break this vicious cycle by allowing him to see someone below their ‘status,’ lest their younger daughter have trouble because of this, come her time.

•Another troubling phenomenon involves the Baalei Teshuvah, who joined our community precisely because they felt a sense of belonging (whether in their local Chabad House or on visits to our community), only to find out later that they really aren’t good enough for us. Can we then blame them for feeling that all of the smiling and welcoming were just superficial, and in realty there is an elitist attitude toward them once they are already Frum?

Being from the conservative side of the political spectrum, I have learned that when looking to solve a problem, the solution usually lies with decreasing regulation and increasing individual choice. The same applies here as well, with the problem stemming from the parents over-regulating whom their children will meet, thus greatly diminishing their choices.

Very often, there is a vast difference in choice between the parents and the bochur/girl. The mother is not the one who will marry this bochur and spend an eternity together with him. Therefore, the most important attribute she may be looking for – subconsciously – is “who will make me look better on Shabbos in the Vaiber Shul?”

“Oh my, look who just walked in! Did you know that her daughter just married a bochur whose great grandfather rolled in the mud in the streets of Nevel after Farbrenging all night long!?”

“Did you know that my daughter-in-law’s great-great-uncle was the shoemaker who made the shoes for the tailor who made the suit for Reb Shmuel Groinem’s BaalAgoleh!?”

“Can you believe that his father is the head Shliach of North Dakota!? My daughter and he are guaranteed the Shlichus position in Wheelbarrowville…”

The daughter’s main priority, on the other hand, is usually a Bochur with good Middos; someone who will be a kind husband and a caring father.

The problem is, it is often very difficult to find someone who is agreeable that will satisfy both, and this is precisely the problem that Shaddchonim are facing. In addition, it happens very often that a suggestion will greatly please the parents, but the son/daughter is less enthusiastic; this sometimes results in tremendous pressure from the parents, and the aftermath can be disastrous. No elaboration is necessary here.

But what if it didn’t have to be this way?

One simple solution would be for approved Shaddchonim to be given the liberty to bring their suggestions directly to the prospective Bochur or young women before bringing them to the parents. This would break down the barrier that is obstructing so many wonderful Shidduchim from taking place, because once the Bochur or girl knows that he/she is interested, it will be much harder for the parents to refuse.

The parents need not worry that their son/daughter marrying someone ‘below their standards’ will affect their younger siblings from finding a shidduch, because in such a system they too will not be shut out by over-selective parents.

I can already hear the outcry, the distant, rumbling sound of an approaching avalanche of protest:

“How dare you come and propose this ‘modernism’ to our sacred community”

“This is not the way we did things; this is not the way our parents did things, nor their parents etc.”

“How will all the other Frum communities look at us now?”

Relax! Let’s go back a few decades and imagine the outcry that must have taken place when young men and women began to go out on dates before getting engaged (instead of the sacred tradition of meeting once in her parents’ living room). It must have sounded something like:

“How is this dangerous modernism creeping into our midst? Where did we go wrong?”

“This isn’t how we did it, this isn’t how our parents did it etc.”

“Vat? A date!? Dis is Goyish, Feh!”

Allow me to illustrate this with a parable:

I heard this parable from a Mashpia, a former Satmar chossid, who told it as a response to the outcry from his community regarding the Rebbe’s untraditional position toward not-yet-Frum Yidden, as opposed to the conventional method of shunning and avoidance.

There was once a city which was fortified by a great wall, but did not have an army to protect it. One day the great army of a foreign monarch came marching toward the city with the full intention of scaling the wall, conquering the city and plundering its loot.

The elders of the city quickly convened and came up with a brilliant solution: every night before going to sleep, every child in the city must go to the northern wall of the city, and throw a rock over the wall.

This proved effective, and every time the enemy tried to build a scaffold with which to scale the wall, it was subsequently destroyed by the barrage of stones that came over the wall every evening. Finally the enemy gave up and sailed home. The stone throwing, however, had already become a tradition and duly continued.

Many generations later, another army marched upon this city. This time, however, the army camped on the southern side of the wall. As expected – the ruling went forth that from now on all the nightly rock throwing would take place on the southern wall. But an outcry erupted from the ranks of the elders: “we have a tradition passed down for hundreds of years to throw the rocks off the northern wall, how dare anybody break this precious tradition that has shielded us for so many years!?”

Are we going to continue throwing stones off the northern wall? Or will we come to terms with the fact that the enemy we face today is not the enemy we faced yesterday? The enemy of yesterday was curbing outside influences into our protected environment. Today, we face a far greater and more destructive enemy, the enemy from within ourselves that repels goodness in favor of personal satisfaction. To combat this new enemy, small change is necessary, as well as inevitable.

For the Halachic perspective on this issue: see Rem”a in Shulchan Aruch Yoreh De’ah, Siman 240, Se’if 25.

So what can we do?

Well, as the parent of an eligible Bochur; I sat down with him the other night, and said to him something along these lines:

“Our dear Yossel, from now on, you will be the first one to hear any Shidduch suggestions made for you. We trust your judgment and integrity in deciding with whom you wish to build a beautiful Jewish home, and we hope we set a good example as to what a good Jewish father and mother should be like.

From this moment on, all calls from Shaddchonim and friends with suggestions will be forwarded straight to you regardless of who it is, and may Hashem help you make the right choice.

Once you have decided that it is something you would like us to pursue, we will do all the necessary research and give the Shadchan a final decision.”

If you are reading this article and nodding your head, and you are the parent of an eligible bochur or young women, don’t wait for any drastic changes to take place; a difference can only be made one little deed at a time. Do the right thing, and in time, the community will heal from all the pain and Ahavas Yisroel will reign again.

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117 Comments

  • AshMan

    Fantastic. If your adult children cannot be trusted to make major life decisions without you, then those children should not be getting married to begin with.

    And if you “must” be a parent who hears it first, please just screen out the addicts and achzarim. Let your adult children make their own choices.

  • Chaim

    Good thought and nice attitude but in the reality we live in this is probably not the best idea. By no means am I saying what we have is fine let it be. But this isn’t it.

    The main problem is most bochurim and bochurot do not know what they want either. There will be less contemplation going on in their heads and more in their hearts which is what leads to broken homes. Some are mature enough not certainly not all.

    I could go on and on but don’t have the patience so I will just check back in a few days and try to laugh at everyones silly comments.

  • Very true

    Excellent! Totally true! I would say exactly the same thing to my child if they were that age! This idea should be taken on by all parents of shidduch aged children!

  • U are the problem GOOD SHIDUCH ??!!

    People that think like you are the problem! dont blame it on a “crises” by using the term “good shiduch” what does that mean? GOOD?? people like you are focusing on “good or bad”! its abput being COMPALIBLE! i come from a very frum home and comunity u think i would connect and feel 100% comfertable with a BT fammily??!! you know how many issues would arise??!! let the BT “good girl or even BEST girl” go out with another BT Famm. BT guy-

  • Chabad BT

    To #4. BH I am now married…to a woman who attends a Conservative shul (and has for years) while I still daven in CH. We moved near Grand Army Plaza so we can both be within walking distance. As a BT I quickly learned that I’m scum to the CH shidduch world. I looked outside and found a wonderful Jewish woman and we have a lovely Jewish home with a baby on the way. People with your attitude will only drive more like me away from a 100% Chassidishe future. Thanks for your “hospitality.”

  • Are you kidding??

    Great observation Terrible application.

    Your observation of the need for deregulation is a good one. But saying that by bringing shidduchimg to the bochur involved will help is ridiculous. What needs to be deregulated is this artificial iron walls between genders. Individuals should have opportunities to meet. Period.

  • Bochur

    #4
    With your attitude and outlook in life I am certain you will have many issues in your future. The Rebbe taught us to love our fellow Jew and find connections, you seem to find distinctions. I am a FFB and would have no issue marrying a BT if she was a good girl with the right outlook and focus in life. Sure beats marrying a girl from the “right family” with the wrong outlook on life and their fellow Yidden.

  • JJ

    after not receiving any shidduchim offers for many years because my family is not wealthy and we are bal teshuva, I decided to do the next best thing. I am dating a non jewish woman. We will be married in a few weeks.

    A friend of my family heard i am engaged to a non jewish woman and saw me in the street and started yelling at me.He told me I am worse than hitler.

    I told him I know him for almost 40 years. I asked him how many shidduchim he suggested for me in the last 40 years. He thought a moment and said none. I told him to shut the hell up , his opinion is worthless to me.

  • mayanoter

    i hope some mayanot people see this..
    it’s true that we BT’s ARE treated differently.
    i always felt at maaynot that the mayanot shluchos were NOT our friends but in fact HAVE TO be nice to us. its funny because many mayanot girls consider the shluchos their best friends..but they HAVE TO BE nice to us..they have no other choice..they are not our friends. now when i come to crown heights i dont really want to see you girls, and when i do run into you i can tell you are just putting on that fake smile and it’s sad. i also feel this way when i go to peoples houses in crown heights..when people find out i am not from here they treat me so differently..but ive been involved for so many years now i dont want to be treated like A PITY NEBUCH CASE.

    i do have to say NOT EVERYONE in crown heights is like this. thank Gd bH i am close with 3 families who are genuinely nice and care about me and when i say something not so correct/polite they correct me and dont feel scared like anything they say will turn me off.

  • To number 4:

    I agree with you that its not about good or bad its about compatibility. But I think we all need to look a bit deeper at what we think is important. To hear some people talk you would think that finding a compatible life partner is like picking the shiniest (skinniest, wealthiest) toy off the shelf. But you can’t tell a person that they are being stupid because its what they want. So I ask them, and specifically you, to look deeply at what you have said. Do you really think that:
    a. ‘not being 100% comfortable with a family’ is reason enough to turn down an otherwise potentially compatible life partner?
    b. The fact that they are frum will make you 100% comfortable? (I am frum from birth, married to a frum from birth guy and I have found other things about my inlaws to make me uncomfortable.As I think everyone on earth has. But this has never affected my marriage and has actually made me a better person in dealing with it.)

  • #5 my sympathies

    #5 Its a shame and a pity that the people here make you feel that way. only happiness and joy from your child.

  • eli ezagui

    something i learned from reading many blogs here is that there are so many selfish uneducated and completely foolish people in this neighborhood. this ffb/bt rhetoric is plain and simply noncense. ffb disliking bt in ch is moronic. too much ignorance in crown heights. all of the ffb in crown height should move to a private island so that the schvartze and bt don’t get in your way. this way you will not have anything to complain about.

  • Gaiva is the flavor of the day!

    It sounds like everyone thinks they are SO GREAT. A little bit of humility will go a long way to help solve the crisis.

  • bt ch

    doesn’t sound like a solution to the shidduch woes of Baalei Teshuva—who’s parents usually have nothing to do with their shidduchim

  • the rebbe

    the difference between your idea and the present system is that, the rebbe was involved personally in many of the details in today’s system. nothing to say of your idea.

  • disappointed

    #4 is part of the problem & # 5 is lying or not telling the whole story.The overall article was very good but what you don’t mention is The Shadchanim you excuse them. They are a huge part of the problem. Sometimes they are worse. They not only don’t do their job but in some cases actually hinder.I know of a shadchan who refused to help someone because he didn’t like the Baal Habasta he rented his apt by!!. The older girls are being just as choosy & picky as the younger ones etc. Anything proposed to assist is immediately knocked down.When Shadchanim decide they may want to do their Job they want upfront money & not a token fee either. One Shadchan asked for $150 up front!. Another well known Shadchan also takes upfront money then ignores you.There is a solution in my opinion There should be shadchanim who are paid a salary as part of the Community council. Fees or donations if you will can e charged but it is paid to the community council towards the shadchanim’s salaries.How about Shiurim with quick introductions(aka speed dating if you will).If they want to go further then the shadchan after speaking with both parties helps arrange things.Both sides must get off their high horses!!

  • runkel

    #4 thank god im not chabad or religious any more, that racism. and hell i wouldnt go back to be looked at like scum

  • Great Point, But Shadchanim Unreliable!

    You raised a very interesting point.

    I think this would be an excellent way for Shidduchim to be suggested etc, but I struggle with a further aspect which I believe adds extra depth to the “shidduch crisis”

    I’m not from NY and I have a son who is a solid bochur with a great reputation and of a perfect age for Shidduchim. I have been in touch with at least five Shadchanim over the course of four months. We have to call, email and virtually harass these ‘well-known’ Shadchanim in order to muster any response! My son is under pressure, we are frustrated and we have to be embarrassed and feel like we are troubling these people who have taken on the responsibility of a being a Shadchan!

    To date, we have not had a single suggestion – yes even a suggestion – from most of them. After back and forth emailing for weeks, one of the Shadchanim decided to tell us, after a myriad of excuses, that they only work within one area -sorry.

    Where’s the decency and courtesy? You’ve taken on a holy mission, please follow-up and treat us and our children with due respect.

    For a time now when there’s a “shortage” of boys, why have we got to fight and struggle to even get a response?

  • Father-who just married of 2 Daughters

    It’s a good idea only in theory, but practically it won’t work. You see, if the Shiduch issue would only be Family, Yichus, geza etc.. then your Idea would have been great, but the the problem is that the issues are not just this, but rather the fact that the girls -as girls- rely only on their parents, they don’t feel strong enough and are not comfortable to do it on their own the will go out on a date only with their parents consent (indeed it’s very correct, that’s how it should be), therefore I don’t believe that your Idea will work.

  • Yaffa from South Africa

    I cannot believe what I am reading.. Why is that most FFB people feel the need to put BT people down and say that we are not good enough to marry? Most BT people are frumer than those that are FFB and no one has the right to judge. Both my husband and I are BT and our children are first generation FFB on both our sides. When the time comes and any of my children come to me and say that a guy/girl who is BT has come up as a shidduch suggestion I would not discourage them from going out. I would be very proud to have a BT son in law or daughter in law because I know what they have gone through to get to where they are. Stop judging all BT and coating them with the same brush. We are just as frum if not frummer than you. The Rebbe never made BT people feel inferior why should you? Once you have walked the path that we BT have then maybe you could have something to say. Until then keep quite

  • Yech with out the USS

    Number #4 – we can tell that you come from a long line of frummies.. you don’t even bother trying to use spellcheck.
    Your yech- uss willl make up for it I guess.BUY A DICTIONARY AND USE IT FOR A CHANGE – YOU DO KNOW WHAT THAT IS DON’T YOU????

    I agree BT should marry BT’s because if they don’t ,THE GESHA FAMILY WILL NEVER LET YOU LIVE IT DOWN, YOU AREN’T GOOD ENOUGH FOR THEM. They have their noses so high up in the air they don’t see what is going on below!
    The inlaws will treat you and your kids like your BT status is something to be ashamed of and you are below them on a lower level. This snobbery is a mishegas.
    Better to marry someone you can have a meeting of the minds with than to be forever shtecht and looked down on as inferrior.

    However if you are loaded you might have a chance of “buying” your way in – they are always looking for new influxes of cash!

    Oh I agree with number 6 you are an Idiot!

  • Father-who just married of 2 Daughters

    As I said before, girls who need their fathers guidance & consent which is basically the majority of ‘shiduchim age’ 19-23 – I do not see it working,
    However older girls who don’t need their fathers guidance like 25 and up, its indeed a great Idea.

  • no one special

    There seem to be underlying issues that are nor clearly identified.
    If a bochur has no chance of becoming a shliach, he is unlikely to earn a living.
    If a baal t’shuva is not good enough to marry into FFB Lubavitch. we are living with incongruous values.
    And, of course, only “shpitz” Lubavitch may marry “shpitz” Lubavitch.
    What you call Shidduch crisis is actually shidduch elitism.

  • The Schvig

    As my Bubby would say: “You make your own yichus!” BH I have married off several of my children, b’Ezrat Hashem. My coda is that my child has to be happy with the person that they are marrying, not me, since BH I am already married, (or as my dear husband likes to tease, “Once is enough!”) The iykar is:”Will hubby get up in the middle of the night to sooth the crying baby, so that his wife can get some much-needed rest? These are the protim that really matter!

    May all parents have the zchus to walk their children to the chupa!

  • enogh shiduchim staff

    Me too Im BT and i married not jewish girl she made conversion and we live a happy life SHIDUHIS IS DISASTER THE SHADCHANIM DONT KNOW HOW TO MAKE A MACH SPECIALLY IN CH

  • Chuckling at #6

    Dear #6…otherwise known as a know-it-all. You comment about someone’s spelling, meanwhile you can not spell either.

    y
    You write- “ …Your an idiot as well!” The CORRECT spelling and punctuation- “You’re an idiot, as well.” Even your TITLE is incorrect! It should read “#4 You’re an idiot, as well!”

    And #6? Yes, you are!

  • Chuckling at #6

    Dear #6…otherwise known as a know-it-all. You comment about someone’s spelling, meanwhile you can not spell either.

    You write- “ …Your an idiot as well!” The CORRECT spelling and punctuation- “You’re an idiot, as well.” Even your TITLE is incorrect! It should read “#4 You’re an idiot, as well!”

    And #6? Yes, you are!

  • 555

    # 4 your judgmental and harsh attitude is an antithesis to the Chabad mentality. You should be ashamed of yourself. To the writer, thank you for your open mind and may Hashem bless you to continue to be a proper vessel for shidduchim in this generation.

  • reuven smith

    This op ed reminds me of the purim jokes about Union (men) mikve and zalman the shikker that are sent in to a major Lubavitch website every year. Wake up people! That mikve closed it doors many years ago and R’ Zalman is a neighborhood mashpia today. And girls don’t go to a vaiber shul and guys go to their own class shuls where there are no girls in most cases. And Shadchanim have no problem at all calling singles directly on their cell phone or talk to them on facebook chat. And BT’s have a very high rate of finding shiduchim. Ever check out a chupa in front of 770? When you’ll see Rabbi Majeski, Rabbi wircberg, Rabbi Hecht or Rabbi Shemtov there, chances are that students of machon chana,hadar hatorah, Tiferes bachurim or mayanot are getting married. That seems to be happening more often than ‘gezhe’ weddings! Obviously it is better for people with similar background to marry each other. An olletairenick will not be able to relate to a girl who went to mayanot!

    In short, it is an amazing op ed but not reflecting the reality

  • To Naftall Cohen who ever you are.

    All you are doing is promotting yourself. I can tell that, you are someone that has been heart by this comunity and i feel sorry for you,but do not even go that far as telling people do not listen to your parents.Get dressed how ever you wish do what ever you wish and you will probebly get what you wish..#1 you left HASHEM out of the complete pictureand #2do not exuse peaple for their destroctive behavier.IT STARTED ALL BEFORE DESPARE.

  • Give Love a Chance

    I agree with the author’s first statement, one way of effecting positive change in the Shidduch System is through “decreasing regulation and increasing individual choice”.
    I think one of the limitations of the traditional Shidduch system is the inability to produce a true story.

    Although it is not a failure of the system since the original goal is to guarantee the establishment of a healthy and lasting Jewish home.

    It is no wonder that a shaddchun’s suggestions is met with parental impute. It is no wonder that resumes and references can supersede any impressions of a potential made which is learned in a less regulated setting.
    Regardless, the uniqueness of the traditional system is learned by it’s historical ability to meet the goal at hand. Without a doubt things are shifting and the fruit is not following close to the tree; the gust of wind is greater then ever.

    The wind is coming in our direction, the questions is how do we best prepare for this shift. There needs to be a more holistic perspective to Shidduch dating and in which love is factored in. Otherwise the potential for love is lost in translation, and replaced with the lingo suitable for a business deal.

  • Not that simple

    I think the shidduch crisis is much more than what the author says. It is not just an inyan of parents interfering with childrens choices. There are many, many issues involved, many of them complicated. Shadchanim are also busy and have little time to spend on making the numerous shidduchim that are needed. But i dont blame shadchanim. I believe there is a spiritual problem that needs fixing and that will open the doors of shidduchim. And yes, many girls do give up on tznius thinking if they do not dress so tzniusdik maybe the boys will notice them…but that is obviously not working either. The answer lies in a lot of heart felt praying, tehillim, tzedaka and begging rachamim from Hashem, the ultimate source of all shidduchim. And we as parents must encourage our children in shidduchim…but if a parent truly feels a shidduch is not good for their child (for valid reasons of course) then it is not something a child should ignore. There are far too many divorces happening today based on wrong shidduchim so it is not as simplistic as the author makes it sound. But we should all brainstorm to figure out what we can do practically speaking to make shidduchim happen faster. Also, there have to be more resrouces for finding shidduchim. Often the shadchanim themselves make judgments as to who is right for who and it is totally off. There are many, many problems that need addressing and we have to beg rachamim from Hashem that the doors of shidduchim should open. that is truly the issue. And I am sure Moshiach would be the solution!

  • ch resident

    its a very good article but why are we putting blame on things? Everyone is gonna marry whom Hashem decided 40 days before he was born. Everything u write is an excuse but in reality a person is gonna marry whoever Hashem decided whether he is fat or skinny, or lubavitch or not lubavitch, or whether he is from a wealthy home or not, or if he has yichus or not etc etc. i have 2 very good friends who r not yet married one is fat and the other is skinny. The fat one claims that she is not married cos she is fat. If that is so then y isnt the skinny one married? Whether the fat friend is fat or skinny she will still not be married because that is what Hashem wants. Its very easy to blame but that is not the answer.

  • Thinking

    It seems like there is a shortage of shadchonim its a very stressful job but very rewarding if you feel up to the task go for it

  • to 20

    Are you seriously expecting a stranger to spend 10s of hours on the phone with you and othere to help make your future and you’re fretting over paying her a measly $150 up front?!!!

    If you told me that you weren’t getting any service for your money than that’s a complaint, but she deserves to get paid and NOT by the the community. No body who’s hired by a councel does their job as well as someone hired by you. If they don’t help you can you call them and complain? they’ll just keep busy with the easy matches.

  • Dissapointed

    It’s a sad state of affairs. It sure would be nice if people knew how to spell and punctuate a sentence properly! Thank g-d for Blast Class!

  • To author

    Great idea! Let the Bochurim think of girls a whole day that were suggested to them.

    ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND! A normal Bochur doesn’t want to get involved.

    I have a friend (a Bochur) who thinks like you, and its clearly having a negative effect on him

  • Y.R.

    All I can say, is that BH I am married to a wonderfull women, and that the way we did it seemed to work for me, and might work as an actual Eitza for others.

    Step one; boy/girl finds a good mashpiah and decides with the mashpiah when/how to start dating.

    Step two; boy/girl or parent informs shadchan/trusted family friend(with track record of making succesfull shiduchim.

    Step three; boy/girl ups theire spiritual level as much as possibel, to make themselves a kaily.

    Step four; parents/shadchan/and or kids, vet any suggestions.

    Step five; date.

    From this step forward the boy/girl disscuses prospect with shadchan and mashpiah ONLY!!! (Following the Rebbes eternal advice on wheither its working or noy)

    Then, more dates and marriege, or decompress with shadchan and mashpia to revise quelifications.

    To answer the OpEd, you csant paint every family with the same brush. Sometimes itd better getting the parents involved sometimes its not. But completely agree it should be an option. And I agree theire needs to be trust/communication and follow up in a respectfull, open and straightforward matter, with ALL parties involved!

  • FFB married to BT

    I am FFB and married BT. We have the best marriage possible. If all you care about is YICHUS, this means that you have no other values in life and all you can live up to is that. You live your life based on your personality and attitude not that of your ancestors. It is true that many Frum lubavitchers “outcast” the very Baal Tshuvas that they encouraged to join the fold.
    The only solution is to force a 1-date policy: Every shadchan should basically explain to boys parents that in order to retain their professional services, when they offer a shiduch, the boy must go out on the first date regardless of the girl’s background etc.
    And the only way to make this work, is if all shadchanim enforce this rule

  • ch father

    for girls and boys to decide if they should meet without consulting the parents is wrong. Look at the goyish world. They meet, go out for years and get married and get divorced. We need the parents to screen first. Most mature adult parents make a judgement based on knowing their child and information they gathered about the prospective shidduch. If you call a girl or boy themselves you have either one or both desperate to marry and will say yes without much thought. Or based purely on physical attraction. Also a shidudch was proposed for my son (an American born geza) with a girl from France (French born geza). After looking into it I see that their way of life is so different. It is hard enough to make a life together without the extra mix of different backgrounds. So much more so with a BT. The background is different, the family dynamics that they are used to is different. Will my son feel comfortable with the extended family? Will the grandchildren get mixed messages from his extended family (FFB) and her extended family (not frum at all)? There are enough wonderful girls and boys who are BTs. Why add to the hardships? We have seen it not working in the long run so many times. Hatzlocha to all.

  • to #5 and 6

    Sorry to tel you but according to me #4 is not totaly wrong,you look for as mush as you cane for a same familly and education background to have a good compatible shidduch,and to the auteur you are just looking to make it more haert breaking to our children,just let them learn or work with menuchas hadaas,and not get all those names and confused them,and let the shadchonim and parents do the work,the problem is that this is where the leak is,

  • to #5 and 6

    Sorry to tel you but according to me #4 is not totaly wrong,you look for as mush as you cane for a same familly and education background to have a good compatible shidduch,and to the auteur you are just looking to make it more haert breaking to our children,just let them learn or work with menuchas hadaas,and not get all those names and confused them,and let the shadchonim and parents do the work,the problem is that this is where the leak is,

  • parents

    We’ve married our children off to children from “shpitz” as well as BT’s. All of them are fantastic spouses, parents and in-law children (we consider them our children and treat them exactly the same as our birth kids.) All our children are happy B”H.

    The main thing is we look for shidduchim with people WHO ARE RIGHT FOR OUR KIDS. Yes, it is very important that the families can be compatible too but it doesn’t always happen. In fact we don’t have much contact with one set of machatonim because we have nothing in common.

    #4 is an illiterate moron. He should be careful what he wishes for, he or his kids may never find their bashert with such bigoted attitudes. #4…get an education and learn how to speak and write basic English. Maybe that will help you find your zivug. It won’t be with one of our daughters, that’s for sure.

  • marrying outside chabad

    Maybe chabad has to consider marrying outside chabad in order to spread chassidus? maybe that is why shidduchim seem harder to find…we have to expand our horizons…we can still be chabad, the person one marries has to agree to a chabad life and study of chassidus etc. but maybe Hashem wants us to marry within other frum communities to spread chassidus all over…

  • frustration

    The shadchnim are not the only problems. We were “red” a shidduch for our son by a friend of his. We did lots of research and it seemed that she was perfect for him.They met and married but I can tell you now that everyone who we spoke to lied about her and her family.She is most definitely not the girl she was made out to be and although our son won’t admit it to us we know he is suffering. If we had only been told the truth they could each have been in a more satisfying marriage.

  • Different Take On The Shidduch Challenge

    Many people looking in from the outside will say that the current state of affairs is a result of singles having to long of a list, not giving their date a long enough chance and so on and so fourth. I actually have a different take on the shidduch challenge. I think that from the beginging a single should have it clear what for him or her is important and not settle in any way. And they should not use a shadchan as a mashpia. They need to get a real mashpia- and listen to him her. Shadchanim may mean well but not necccesarly know well. And they should not listen to people who tell them that since they are this and this age, they should not expect this and this quality in a boy or a girl since it is not possible. They should put more trust in Hashem then in all the people who give them advice, put together. Many go out with people who are not from them because they have been sooo ingrained with the message that to have certain requirements in dating will make it harder for them to find a spouse.As a result they go out with many who are not for them. This needs to stop. Priorites in dating is neccessary and will make it easier, not harder for a person to get married. Certain people are out of touch with today’s generation. Telling someone that a girl is a girl and a boy is a boy (giving the message that all else is secondary) is proof of that. I know because i’ve been there and done that.

  • Mother of a boy

    Some people get lots of chances but something emotionally is holding them back. Some people would have better chances if they improved their appearance. While that sounds superficial, looks have mattered to people since the human race began.

  • Get A Moderator

    Some disgusting and name-calling comments really denigrate what could otherwise be a positive and fruitful discussion. Get a moderator — it is well worth it.

  • A Groysa chochom

    The main thing is money, looks, and yichus. In that order.
    The rest doesn’t really matter.

  • Mother of girls to #46

    Also a shidudch was proposed for my son (an American born geza) with a girl from France (French born geza). After looking into it I see that their way of life is so different.
    this is what you say,but this is wrong, I am from France (geza) and my children are , some married with CH and others from other places of the world, and even the education is not the same as the American education we still have the chassidishe varime and eidele education given to our children that’s more matim with the American chassidishe education than the real French, and just because of people like you we have it very difficult to find shiduchim for our children. Just ask the CH family’s married to French, and you’ll see that they are the best and the more chassidishe eidele varime and best values family’s. And not just the family you got information of, and was not matim for your son you have to condemn all, go ahead ,and you don’t know ,your son’s mazel can be another French girl kol tuv,hatsloche rabo

  • Avrohom

    Solution to Crisis
    First a list should be made of Shadhonim in Crown Heights. Also more people need to become Shadhonim. It pays well and you do a mitzva. The Chofetz Chaim said that the only kosher money he made was shadhonis gelt.
    Second, the Rebbe was against the system of a couple meeting for 3 times during one week and then deciding to marry. The Rebbe said how can one make a entire life decision in one week. (Heard from Rebbe’s secretary, R.L.G.) On the other hand , I know of a case where couple went out for months. The bahur was under great pressure from parents to marry for yihus, money,etc. He married her and is now divorced with no children . They never spoke about common life goals.
    Finally, every person I meet in Crown Heights has a spectacular daughter who is 23,24,25,26 and 27 who is un married. The Rebbe guided me in shidduchim. The Rebbe told me to follow the feelings of my heart when I wrote the Rebbe against going out more with a certain girl. The couple who go out have to have more of a say in matters as the parents are over protective by pushing away good prospects. With Blessings that everyone should meet their intended mate soon

  • Just my opinion

    I was bighearted and let my child marry a BT. I have never had so much aggravation in my life. With all the money these parents make they are downright cheapskates. It is true that it is very hard for the two backgrounds to mix. Yes I have swallowed a lot, have kept quiet and tried to make the best out of things.

  • Andrea Schonberger

    When it’s time to start dating both the bochur and girl should put their real feet foward and not their best and that way you can get to know the person as they really are instead of on their best behavior. Before we married my husband knew that I could throw a tantrum that could outdo any 2 year old and I knew that he could be as stubborn as a mule–this was a good thing as their weren’t any surprises after the wedding. This coming year we will be married for 29 years

  • DaasTorah

    As a BT of 16 years I am still not fully accepted by the community. I don’t have strong yichus nor I am very wealthy. Because I lack either one of those I am 31 and unmarried. It’s been over a year since they proposed a girl to me.

    There are plenty of eligible guys. We are caring, loving and will treat the girls like queens.

  • i am # 4. GOOD SHIDUCH ??!! w..

    yes its me again #4 why is it always the BT’s that have a problem with respecting a persons opinion just bc they dident spell the word corectly or they by simstake pushed the wrong key?? see thats an einel problem that you will have all your life from ur BT inlaws!! if you are from the same backround u will understand it and fell all warm and cozy. if your not then it will be a LIFE OF HELL and ull wanna GET OUT even though ppl said “oh SHE’S A GREAT GIRL”!!
    and no i dont put bt’s down when they come up for me i just say its not the kinda backround im loookin for..just like i wont feel comfertable in a black famm. and i do enjoy watching blacks in a comedy movie. its not that i think im more frumer..not about that. just “COMPATABILITY”! get it?! u insecure BT!?

  • Dear #4 & 64

    So you are an FFB/gezhe/spitz? You’re better than a BT? But trawling through your illiterate (again) post #64 I see you watch movies. Hmmmm. And you still think you’re “better” than a BT? LOL! No, I’m not passing judgment on movies, but your double standard makes you one HUGE, illiterate, stupid joke. Add to that, you’re an ignorant snob. Good luck on finding YOUR bashert! ;)

  • shlomo as always with bad English

    to#4, 10, 20 agree and good luck! when i first time come to CH my rov give me some numbers of shadhanim(ot) ih wejs. newer in my life i don’t waist so many time on such stupid selfish people. only one Lady from crown speak politely. simple politely. and others only waist time and want money. one lady want contract not only for shiduh, but for maaser from hatuna, and maaser of both in 2 first years??? (were is tax authority? they need this lady) as more educated and more politely from more of this people. a have enough savlanut. but i promise if somebody record this on video no more baalej tshva in chabad ! even one!. it such huge difference from ch and all others jewish places. simple all thise stuped ch old lady want you feel down and after say- you a not chabadnick enough! lady if you chabadnik so i’m sgan Rebe at least. if on my job i need employee people. nobody from this people get job. it simple they only can destroy all relation with client.
    m.b it really need some license to this job, like some other country. this people even for money can do something good

  • A shliach former CH resident

    # 46, especially # 60
    A shidudch was proposed for my son (an American born geza) with a girl from France (French born geza). After looking into it I see that their way of life is so different.
    My response….
    My best Yeshiva Chavrussa who is a French born geza dated a girl who is American born geza, they met only 3 times, ,got married,and have B”H a great family with a half a dozen Einiklach etc…Married 25 years kn”h.
    Now to # 60 the facts totally disagree with you. A) you write Shadchanus “it pays well’,
    A shadchan spends an avrage of 100 hours to make a shiduch -take in consideration that 90 % of dates don’t work out, therefore even if he gets paid a $1000.00 it’s only 10.00 an hour…….in my book it means “it pays very bad”….
    The Chofetz Chaim 1) only said that the money is more KOSHER not that it was a NICE payment 2) he was paid much better than the average Shadchan bc he wasn’t only the shadchan but also their “”Rebbeh.
    B) As mentioned my friend got engaged only after 3 dates with a full consent and great BLESSING of the Rebbeh.(most probably u didn’t understand RLG).
    C) You write ”every person I meet in Crown Heights has a spectacular daughter who is 23,24,25,26 and 27” …. Really??
    D) What’s the chidush that the Rebbe guided you …he guided EVERYONE,that’s why it was much much easier when the Rebbe was alive.
    E) however I do agree with you on your final statement” With Blessings that everyone should meet their intended mate soon”.. I’ll add VERY soon.

  • HAHAHA

    shadchanim are TRYING but they are trying SOO hard that they match up anything that moves! seriously this shadchan set me up with this EXTREEEMELLYYYY chassidish guy wearing a yellow pin and all.. and i am a struggeling lubavitch girl trying to learn and grow and looking for someone doing the same. not a yellow pin guy who LATER TOLD THE SHADCHAN I WASN’T CHASSIDISH BECAUSE I WAS WEARING A LEATHER JACKET.
    hahah seriously come on! it was actually kind of funny..but at the time (on the date) i was like oooooh myyyyy G-D!!!!!!!

    can someone explain this!?!?!!!!! LOOOLLL so funny now that i think back

  • to 64

    wow just want please tell me your hebrew name so that I can say some tehillim for you. and yes please keep far away from bt’s

  • Dear #4

    You’re a pathetic imbecile who knows nothing about life and loves to show it. You are the epitome of everything I can think of that is wrong with Lubavitch wrapped up in one walking piece of living zera levatala. People like you with one word destroy everything Chabad [supposedly] stands for. Shame on you. What knowledge can you possibly have about “compatability” (sic)?

    You will be very successful if you made a reality TV show about your life because people will always want to see what happens next.

  • dis aint inglish

    64 there iz a big difrins betuen a few msteaks and a totall mess dat no wun kan reed exsept maybe a shucher hoo lerned inglish in joovey. mebbe yoo wasnt reely in oholetora but yoo wuz relly dooing time in joovey joint for hi skool?
    dere iz shloochim wut are never pick up no sekuler buk in dere lives and den dey goz away from Amerika too be shliach and dey picks up da languidge cuz dey kare and dey want too be understanded. yoo rite dat bad becuz yoo laisey. yoo kan pik up inglish on yoor one wid da internnet now.

  • 64 must see a shrink

    you are a pathetic Meshugener…but you made me laugh (at you) for at least an hour.

  • A concerned mother

    The author is abdicating her responsibility as a parent to help her child find a shidduch. I don’t understand how leaving our children to flounder on their own will solve “the shidduch crisis”.

    Parents need to be selective based on their children’s needs. For my children I am looking for- a healthy spouse physically, emotionally and psychologically, a sense a humor, a similar level of frumkeit and Chassidishkeit, the ability to maintain long-term friendships, similar goals in life, similar views of marriage, flexibility, openness…

    I hope this article doesn’t start a trend of parents taking the easy way out and giving the total burden of shidduchim to their children.

  • A Jew is a Jew

    #4/#64. Your comments are not only ignorant but extremely racist. It is people with your kind of attitude that give a bad name to Chabad. I am embarrassed for you.

  • Single Bochur

    Like most issues in life theres multiple solutions that can solve the issue. Everyone has their own way of doing things and what works for them. One thing that people over look is these days theres so many ways to do “research” on someone and people always look for the bad; whats wrong with him/his family etc. Maybe try to look at the good in people, he has a job, hes nice, he’ll take care and treat my daughter like a queen. But people are always looking for whats wrong in people rather than whats right.

  • #4 not reall

    I don’t believe that #4 is a real person. or that a bunch of the posts are real, but someone trying to create a stereotype and make fun of it while others believe it. It is very hard for people to spell so bad unless they do it on purpose, nowadays everyone pretty much has a spell check.

  • sad situation trying to get info

    People give you references.
    It’s almost ridiculous because you get the same pareve information- yes they are wonderful and special and helpful and etc….
    Problem is you never get the information that he/she is short tempered, has had an issue with being rough with the teens they work with etc. The kind of things that most people who around the individual see but most often don’t want to “see”.
    And when it comes to a shidduch they will give glowing information but if you told them about this person for their child – chas vesholom.

    There ought to be a website for parents/people involved in the shidduchim on how to get the necessary information.
    You wouldn’t hire a nanny to take care of your kids without doing a background check-
    So-why would you just hand over a son or daughter to a stranger ?

    1- no one is going to tell you the truth about the person you are asking about, Most often they reluctantly give information and play avoiding games.
    2- everyone wants to be the one that says nice things and the other things they brush right over.
    3- Unless you know something or go digging on the internet and find out that they were engaged before or were involved in something chas v’sholom they shouldn’t have been involved- the truth is- no one is going to fork over the info.

    4-shaddchanim will send over names if and when they feel like it and usually they’ve clasified you by either money, family status or b.t or occasionally gair.
    Not lot’s of luck there !
    Its better to marry from inside your own community- hopefully you will be more familiar with the families,
    instead of having to hire a P.I. to run a search on the individual.

  • Esq.

    To the author: Stop blaming everyone else. The boy/girl must be responsible and grow up. Take charge of his/her life. Stop letting others control their life. Those posing obstacles don’t care if you get married or not. Be proactive and get out there and live your life to its fullest. Try not to listen to the those whose lives are not in unison with the life you wish to live. Losers are all over and they will pull you down. Just figure out what your dreams are and go make them happen. If you don’t . . . no one will do it for you. You are not owed anything and you don’t deserve anything you have not earned. The good things in life take effort and marriage is one of the best things that happen to those who are able to treat another with love and kindness. Marriage is not easy so why do you expect the process of finding someone to spend the rest of your life with to be easy?

  • To # 64

    I am FFB and work in mental health I am diagnosing you with dyslexia there are treatments for this that can help you good luck. And by the way it seems that your are also not so smart but it is very unlikely that somebody feels “cozy” with there in laws just a fact of life.

  • To #10

    It’s unfortunate that you had such a terrible time with shidduchim and it may be the biggest test you ever face, but I can tell you as someone on shlichus, who knows intermarried couples. There is no such thing as a happy intermarriage. It may seem that way, lots is covered up, but if Hashem forbids it, then there is no bracha in it. At times, there’s tragedies and misfortunes and I see many messed up children from these marriages. For your own neshama, don’t cut off your nose, despite your face. With Hashem’s help,
    I wish you the most success in finding your true basherter.

  • The Minhag is to NOT leave your name.

    Interesting that out of 84 comments there are 3 names. Probably because all the other people didn’t have anything worthwhile to talk about.
    BTW that 2.52%

  • Mother of a boy

    @#82
    I know of children of gerim and gerim themselves that had absolutely no trouble in shidduchim and I know of some gehzhe families whose children suffered plenty of rejection or could not find the right person for their children for several years. I see struggling BT families who are constantly making weddings and gehzshe families who would love to have some mazal.
    What I am trying to say is that it is not always black and white. There are shadchanim who “specialize” in gehzshe families but there is a whole big network and several shadchanim who specialize in children of BTs and gerim and other shadchanim who help BTs, gerim, people with illnesses, and people who have been married before.
    I agree that it is maddening when some gehzhe person pesters a BT for his time and money but would not allow his child to marry the child of the BT. I think that by this time, most BTs know that no matter how much money or time they give, it is unlikely that the gehzhe person will want to become mechutanim with the BT. And, by some miracle, some children of BTs do end up marrying some children of gezhshes so that in 3 or 4 generations, it may not be so obvious who was who.

  • Moshiach Now

    lot of negativity here folks.
    what is the solution?
    for starters, learn to love yourself.
    why?
    bc the perception of your world stems from the way you see yourself.

    life is not that complicated really!
    relp with Hashem, relp with yourself,
    then you are ready to begin.
    good luck! meet you in shul. please dont talk during kria :) thanks.

  • FFB

    #4:
    You might have gotten lots of “kedusha” from your gezha family over the years…
    …It doesn’t sound like your parents and grandparents ever transmitted any love to you though…
    You write like a !?%&% BRAT!
    GET A LIFE!!

  • Avrohom (number 60)

    to number 68
    The story of going out more than 3 times is printed in sipurim min hadar shel hareebe in Hebrew. So much for I did not understand him. Also there is a famous saying in the name of the Boro Park Posek years ago. It said that one must go out 10 times. I called Rav Moshe Bick myself. He told me he never mentioned a number of times. He did say that he does not hold from the very religious circles where the couple only meet a few times and then get married. The couple comes to the Rav later saying they did not know who they were marrying. A know of a recent case where shadkan got name of girl from parent of boy to suggest to family of girl. They were married happily a few months later. The shadkan got thousands of dollars in cash for no more than 30 min work. Want to go pro?

  • a Mayanoter alumnae to #11.mayanoter

    I do not share you opinion at all.
    Guy, the former shluchot and BTs are close friends till today!
    Go to Facebook and see it
    I think your opinion is very personal. Maybe you should talk about it with rabbi Levinger, Im pretty sure he can help you.
    Good luck

  • SM

    I’m always so impressed that shluchim can continue to go out and earnestly reach out to bring Jews closer to Torah. I, myself, no longer invite hordes of college students and frei people to my home. I no longer even try to connect Jewishly when I meet a frei yid in passing. I can’t imagine how I will present our way of life as so meaningful, loving and G-dly. In the back of my mind I know that one day they’ll find out the truth. I will have presented a lie of epic proportions. And nowadays, they’ll find out so much sooner given the proliferation of these blogs where we air our dirty laundry for the world to see and smell. The infighting, elitism, judgmental attitudes and sinas chinam are destroying us.

    How in the world has this happened to us? I’m afraid there is no hope, we’ve all gone insane.

  • Dont understand

    Can someone please explain to me why gezhe will only marry gezhe? I understand all the other things, money so that you’ll live comfortably, looks so that you will be attracted to your partner, but what on earth does a gezhe family give you? Why would I care if your grandfather was an alterer chossid? (unless I was marrying your grandfather, which Im not) Im not writing this for the pleasure of ‘hearing my own voice’ can someone who is gezhe please explain the attraction of a surname to me.

  • anonymus

    to Avrohom…

    Are you an Israeli (living in boro park), you talk like one, and u r not answering to the point. even if your story of “a person gave a shadchan lots of money” is true, so what ..not every day is Purim.

  • It-s true

    Don’t attack #4, at least he’s honest. We are BT parents & it’s 100% true.
    We don’t bother with gezhe, we don’t want our kids to be a “compromise” or a b’dieved.
    So all you gezhe can stick together.

  • to 94

    yeah it’s fake. at least for the girls. lots of the Mayanot girls agree with me..ive asked

  • What about friends

    When it comes down to it who knows you the best?? This random Shadchan? or your friends??? Get your friends to set you up! if they have gone out and it didn’t work is the last person they went out with good for you?

  • M.M.T.

    I am a 40 year old baal teshuva. Every 4 or 5 years the shadchan suggests an obese bearded lady who is divorced with 9 children.

    That is more of an insult than not suggesting anything at all.

  • Wheelbarrowville

    I spoke to the head shliach of north dakota to make a “bashow” and marry my 1 year old daughter to his 6 month old son and he said its a good idea but he cant promise wheelbarrowville. so i called off the shiduch.

  • A Friend

    Unfortunately the people involved in making shidduchin don’t always truly know the parties involved, this may include the shaddchanim, the teachers and even the “parents” themselves. Young men and women act differently when at home or in Yeshivah then when around friends. Parents always assume their child is the best and looking for x, y and z. Are the parents really in sync with what their child wants? Some parents don’t discuss with their children what they are seeking and sometimes when they do the children are afraid to say what they truly want if it doesn’t match the mold their parents envision. Relying on resumes and references are useless. People can write what they want and references usually are afraid to say anything. People can twist what references say or don’t say to their liking. Parents simply say no when the name brought up doesn’t ring a bell or doesn’t sound important enough.
    Many good shidduchin can be made by friends of the young men or women, but the friends are often intimidated to be involved with the shidduch process. Friends should be encouraged to be more involved with the shidduch process. Parents should be encouraged to be more receptive to listening to people who know both parties.

  • BTs marrying Gezeh is not a bargain.

    Although I do not label myself– I and my wife are Balei Teshuva, B“H. All of our children are married to children of other Baalei Teshuva.

    Frankly, we have been offered several Shidduchim from Gezeh fammiy’s who have sought our childen out. We have many close friends whose family’s have great ChaBad Yichus, and we love them; however, for our children’s benefit we rejected the offers. Here’s why.

    In several of these wonderful families, there was a ”click“ mentality, cronyism, etc. There was too much (for us) ”family politics“, & ”family fueds“ that dated back to Russia, etc.

    We preferred that our children marry with children of family’s who have more of a ”clean slate“ regarding family histories. Marriage is difficult enough for a young couple to succeed at without having to introduce this additional ”strain“, which is part & parcel of the ”Gezeh“ lifestyle.

    In summary, Baalei Teshuvah have nothing to be envious of in ”Gezeh” shidduchim. We are in a much better position to find good, healthy shidduchim clear of entanglements from years, possibly generations of intra- and inter- family rivalries, etc.

    Sholom and Brocha to all.

    unentangled help their children find happiness

  • pashut yid

    The recent shidduch crisis is a reflection of the internal crisis of the frum community, which is despite the strict ritual, people at heart don’t really feel anything for what is being practiced. Frum people judge a potential shidduch only on the amount of money they have, their family’s bachground, and their looks. Despite all the deep Torah wisdom, everyone is a shallow materialistic American who cannot look past those three things and just settle down and start a family.

  • @97

    People who are not gehzshe may want to marry gehzshe to prove that they are in the “in” crowd; that they have “made it” in the community.
    People who already are gehzshe have a mind-set that others don’t understand and they feel more comfortable with those who understand their mindset. Their families have been connected to each other for generations and they view newcomers as outsiders.

  • BT THERAPY

    ch.info should change the name to BT THERAPY .ORG ..u know the real problem are the BT parants not so much the girls (as i am a guy, lookin for a girl) but they REALLY sure know how to kill it for them. sorry

  • yeracmiel

    all of us are created in g-ds image, there all of us are beautiful… just some of us are more beautiful than others.

  • Anonymous

    You all just need to chill and STOP being mean to eachother, because YOUR the reason Moshiach isn’t here, which is the ONLY reason there is a “Shiduch Crisis”. So just start being a little nicer, and help bring Moshiach NOW!!!!!!!

  • a response

    To # 10.

    Point #1

    You are showing one of the reasons why people hesitate to take a shidduch from a BT family.

    The fact that you were able to consider marrying a non Jewish women reflects on who and what you were and the education that you received. It is fear of such chinuch and upbringing that causes many people to stay away from BT family’s. In cases where the BT family is know to raise their children and run their home with the same standards as a regular Anash family then most lifers would take those
    bochurim.

    Point #2

    There is a well known saying “ birds of feather flock together”. People are more comfortable with a spouse who was raised the same as they were and the likelihood of a husband and wife enjoying Sholom Bayis increases when the husband and wife share the same outlook and values on life and had similar upbringing. Even relatively minor matters can have a strong impact on married life. Looking for similar backgrounds increase the odds of a happy successful marriage. The fact that both attended lubavitcher schools does not mean they shared the same upbringing.

    Point #3.

    This “caste” system does not just apply to Ballei Teshuva. It also goes on amongst lifers with the birthplace of ancestors, whether Russia or Poland, Chabad or not Chabad etc playing a role. Not by everyone but by some. That is a fact of life.

    Point #4

    The idea of “Yichus” or looking for children from frum families is not just a status symbot to most but an important part of Yiddiskeit. Sure there are many exceptions but we know that parents of a child as well as the grandparents have an strong effect on the offspring which can also include the Midos and frumkeit of the prospective husband and wife. (Tanya perek 3 and many sichis of the rebbe as well as many other sources.) When parents, whether lifers or BTs, have demonstrated in their lifestyle and in the chinuch of their children, that the traits that they have transmitted to their children are the ones that a chassidish family is looking for they will find a decent shidduch. Will it be from the “best” families? Probably not but that is found in all circles. Being a Baal teshuva does not have to be a family disease passed on from parents to children. It is the parents and their lifestyle that at times perpetuate the BT label onto their children.

    Point #5

    Shidduchim should come about thru people who know you and your family. speak to friends, neighbors, mashpi’im, etc and ask them do they know of a good girl or boy and can they suggest the shidduch. Sitting back and saying “ I do not get any good offers” and blaming the system or the shidduch crisis or anybody else will not help. It takes a lot of commitment, hard work, and of course Siyatah Dishmaya.

  • Anonymous

    To Andrea Schonberger- I love reading your responses. You’re the only one that ever makes any sense!

  • @#113

    You make a lot of good points but I would like to add a couple:
    1) We BTs should not feel that the shidduchim that our children are being offered are inferior because they come from other BT homes. We should have our own sense of yichus and value the other BTs and their children.

    2) We and our children should endeavor to look for the good in whatever shidduchim are offered to our children.

  • the blame is on their families and mashpias

    The whole business of judging someone by their yichus needs to be gotten rid of or your daughters won’t find husbands. Recently I have been turned down several times. I am ger. I grew up in a non orthodox family and when I started learning about yiddishkeit I found out to continue on this path I needed a gerus. After 14 years I finally did so. I take yiddikeit and being a chossid seriously, I have strong values, I am a great person, and good looking as well. The only reason that girls have turned me down is because of my background. They can keep their “sphitz” and “too good to date a baal teshuvah” attitude because there will be someone else for me maybe even another ger or bt like myself. On the other hand the longer stuck up single girls stay single your better than attitude won’t be helping you find a shidduch.