127 Comments

• blah blah blah

  Stop whining. Last week’s article was FANTASTIC and said it as it should be. He hit the nail on the mark. If you want to be modern or call yourself whatever you like, you don’t have to write long op eds to justify yourself. Nobody cares, just do it in a neighborhood that it is accepted.

  READ CLEARLY AND SLOWLY… IT IS NOT ACCEPTED IN CROWN HEIGHTS.

• Lost World..Lost Hope..Lost?????

  Beautiful Article…You have inspired me to be Frum..G d Bless you..whoever you are..

  You should teach a class..

• Lost World..Lost Hope..Lost?????

  Number 1…………..I care, I care alot. It is people like this who wrote this article that brings me back..and people who wrote the previous article that disgusts me ..“NOT ACCEPTED IN CROWN HEIGHTS”…not true.. I lived there for 5 years , wore my pants and I was greeted every so graciously by the ones who truly understood the “Rebbe Shlitah” and you clearly have no understanding from where you come

• I have had ENOUGH!!!

  This attitude has been doing more damage to our community then the beautiful soul who walks the street not dressed up to par.
  When I see a woman in MY neighborhood, where I’m trying to raise MY children with Chassidishe values, it offends me. And yes, it saddens me that we (as a community) accept this as OK. Since when is it OK for a teenage girl (I know her she’s my neighbor) to parade the streets with a skirt that only just covers her rear end (I thought they were shorts at first) a T-shirt with a low neck & no sleeves & bare legs & flip-flops?

  Why SHOULD we accept it? And if she’s a “beautiful soul”…let her show that beauty externally. No, she doesn’t need to wear a burqua. But she & all the others who flaunt their pritzus in our faces need to give US the respect THEY demand. I expect my standards to be respected. Why does someone with high standards and expectations have to lower them to meet the “values” of those who think I’m “super frum”? I’m not. But as I said, I have standards.

  It never ceases to amaze me: bigotry and judging people only goes one way….from right to left. These beyond modern people refuse to accept that they judge US. THEY decide we’re judgmental. Really? And they aren’t?

  Respect the values of the community. You want to dress like that? Please move out. Or do it in private.

• To the Editor of this Article

  Last week’s article was excellent. “Chabad Lite” people are not stupid! They know exactly what they are doing. Many of them were brought up in chasidishe homes. The author of last week’s article was merely stating that in order to consider yourself Chabad – Lubavitch , you have to act in a way that the leader of Chabad – Lubavitch , the Rebbe expects.
  Sounds really clear to me.

• The Chabad Lite measuring tape

  According to Chabad to alter the growth of the beard in any way is a Biblical Prohibition.Thus if someone transgresses this Issur Doiraysa Bfarhasaya he should have the decency not to wear a Kapata and openly identify as Chabad. That Lanius Dati is the measuring tape: Issur Dairaysa Bfarhasaya.

• CM in CH

  #1, if your attitude is the embodiment of what’s accepted in Crown Heights, then maybe it’s Crown Heights that shouldn’t be accepted. Lighten up.

• Mendoza

  Chevrea. Avat yisroale is best. Shull in. Crown hieghts
  Very. Bullet proof mecitzah -no talking during Davening
  Shier Tanya b/4 davining they alow. A bacuer with a yeci yarmulkas
  To speak b4 kreat hstorah and to explained the parsha
  And the haom Yom. After thehilmm
  Who ever and Rabbi shevay. Gave his blessing
  So to. All u haters kush ah bear

• to # 7

  Hey, Chaya Mushka, nobody is asking you to accept crown heights, only to respect the laws.

• Mendoza

  To number 6 I wear a kapota and I trim my beard. & I am 3rd generation chabad , if u don’t like it. Kush ah bear

• right!

  good one # 6! could i add…?

  -not talking in shul (as davening is a basic pilar of chasidus and yidishkeit in general)
  -not saying digusting words through your mouths
  -dress tznius(is this new?)
  …
  …
  …

• Lost World..Lost Hope..Lost?????

  Enough Already..what is wrong with you people..have you lost yourself in judgement of a person who is NOT YOU..Give it up and just simply and purely love one another

• Lost World..Lost Hope..Lost?????

  Children are dying, people are hungrey, families cannot afford to make wedding/bar mitzvahs..etc..why don’t you concentrate more on writing back and forth about that and what you as a community can do to help the situation?????????

• another concerned mother

  to #4: nobody thinks it’s acceptable for a teenage girl to dress that way, just as it’s unacceptable for an adult to. however, the teeanager is still a child and is likely rebelling or going through issues at home, etc… there are many dark reasons why a girl from a frum home could stoop so low. my question to you is; what are you suggesting for the family to do? kick their daughter out of the house? send her away? she can’t move out, she’s a child. do you think the rebbe would want her sent away? just because she dresses that way doesn’t mean that the community accepts it (tacitly or otherwise). but again, what can we do? these are the darkest hours before moshiach arrives!

• What Chabad are you talking about

  Somebody who regularly does not have a skirt that covers their knees when sitting is Not keeping daas Moshe (Rabeinu). All poskim say the knees must be covered when sitting. Reb Elyashiv Shlita, Reb Shlomo Zalman Orebach A“H HaRav Ovadiya Yosef Shlita, Reb Moshe Feinstein A”H and the Lubavitcher Rebbe says exactly the same thing (Shaar halacha and Minhag). Its not a question of Chabad, its not orthodox Judaism. Ask your Rav if the Torah considers their food as Kosher.
  People have forgotten what the word Chabad means
  Somebody who uses their Chochma (right brain), Bina (Left Brain) and Daas (focus) in study of Chassidus to transform their character.

• To #6

  That is exactly right!

• The Author of Chabad Lite .

  A) While a person is allowed to o around wearing a US army uniform, claiming that he is an soldier / ex soldier in order to derive benefits from it is a felony. As I wrote in the OP-ED, they can call themselves friends of chabad, supporters of chabad etc., they just arent chabad.

  Another point of contention is your reference to the Rebbe wanting ahavas yisroel. As I wrote in the Op Ed, this has nothing to do with ahavas yisroel I love them for who they are. They are my friends, neighbors and relatives. I, however, cannot condone their lifestyle and cannot permit them to force it upon me.

• Mercy!

  This article is hog wash go to five towns you will fill more comfortable there and make the people living in crown heights more comfortable and as a chabadnik we all love you as we love every Jew. Be honest if the Rebbe was physically alive would you tell the Rebbe accept me as your CHOSID!!?? The Rebbe will love you as he loves every yid not his chosid

  REBBE HAVE MERCY!!!

• Mendoza

  To. All. U haters. And those that think they live in a bubell wake up and smell the coffe

• Nice Article

  You’re funny.

• a tolerant chabad, however

  those that respect the Rebbe and want to protect it cannot help being offended. It is no big brainer that the pritzus that is going on is a chilul Lubavitch and very disrespectful to the Rebbe etc. “Chabad Lite” article was long overdue.

• To Fool a Fool

  I agree 100% with the first op-ed (chabad lite.

  In short: its about EMES/TRUTH, don’t fool yourself.

• OUR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY

  Is this the Lubavitch slogan? “OUR WAY OR THE HIGHWAY”

  Nu Why send out mitzvah tanks to show that EVERY Jew is an accepted Jew when we look down upon our fellow Jews in CH.

  The cookie cutter way of life where everyone must conform to dress codes used to be the law in communist china and that went well didn’t it.

• Miriam

  Agreed.

• chabad lite was a great oped!

  Sorry, but just because we have to except everyone doesn’t mean our kids have to live between them and be in the same class!
  we have to raise our kids in the best environment, not having to explain to them why their classmates aren’t tznius or why their freinds father doesnt have a beard.

• CH chossid

  We have standards. If you don’t like it or even after all the effort you can’t keep up, because of your shallow, teivedike mind and personality, move out. Yes we accept all Jews. But would you allow someone who eats treife, acts in a manner unacceptable to you, live in your house where your kids can see it all the time. And you saying it is ok? You would not allow them in your house or at least tell them that in your house you have to dress, act, talk etc. differently. Why do you think that we, the people who keep to the chabad lubavitch customs and standards should allow you to stay in our neighborhood? Please act like a lubavitcher or get out of this neighborhood. This is our house, where we raise our kids. Even if we invite non frum people into our home we tell them how we accept them to dress. We tell them what we expect from them by the table on Shabbos etc. So please if you can not contain yourself, you do not belong here.

• Immature and Amature writer

  I am very glad to hear that you had a very meaningful and uplifting experance in the controversial Shul. I have one question, though, directed at your unsolicited article: If I decided that I feel most comfortable walking down the street in my birthday suit, would you also treat me with “Ahavas Yisroel” welcome my divergent practice, and not judge me?
  Or, like most sane people, would say “I think you are a great human being but that’s not the way we walk amongst people”.

  Our community has standards. Period. When the Rebbe said “kan tzivah Hashem es habracha” he didnt say “everyone do as you please” He spoke about standards and he demanded standards. Crown Heights has standards. If you dont want to live up to them, no problem. Leave. Dont be immature and shove your “birthday suit” in the community’s face in the name of “Ahavas Yisroel”.

  Figuring out the standards in Crown Heights doesn’t require measuring tape. It requires maturity and a sense of respect for other people, who are adhering to the Rebbe’s values.

  Deciding whether or not you are immature and selfish, may require a measuring tape…

• To the Author

  Amein!!! AMEIN AMEIN! Your article reminded me why it is amazing to be a Chabad ba’al teshuva…while the author of last week’s article made me want to leave Crown Heights’ extreme judmentalism and negativity for greener and more welcoming pastures somewhere else. Last week’s article was the topic of discussion at the table this Shabbatt among myself and four other BT fathers, and we have collectivey decided to move together to a yet-to-be detiermined community with a wonderful Chabad house. We want a Chassidic lifestyle to be joyous for us and our families, rather than as a weapon used by others. We try REALLY hard to be good yidden, and we have given up our families and communities to be HERE, please remember, only to have articles like last week’s show how judgemental Crown Heights can be.

• chaim

  Bottom line nobody controls crown heights. Its a free world, we accept everyone however, the mosodos need to be in control for the future generations of chassidim period. Its the hanhala of the yeshiva to enforce current bans of tv’s, tzinius and not the community. Rabbonim need to be leaders and not be afraid of the crown heights mafia’s and teach torah to our local communities.

• CH Resident and PROUD

  Did you hear?? CH is the new and upcoming Mear Sheorim. ‘Chabad-lite’ watch your back! Soon there will be stone throwing…

  And we wonder y Moshiach isnt here..

  For all those ‘better than thou’ attitudes, if u taught ur children well, stick to your gun bout ur values and encourage them to respect everyone equally, maybe then, your insecurities will die and you won’t have to blame your childrens upbringing on others.

• To Yisroel P.

  Please walk down the street with a fake police uniform and badge, and see how quickly you will be arrested!
  There is a BIG difference in wearing an army cap – in a ciiy not patrolled by soldiers, and everyone knows it’s just worn for “fashion”, and impersonating a police officer!
  chabad lite are IMPERSONATING frum Jews and giving them a bad name.
  Balei Teshuva are trying to improve. Today they keep shabbos, next week they add kosher, then somehing else. They are not impersonating. They are IMMITATING and that’s the best compliment.
  Chabad lite are giving up torah true values to serve their own desires. We DON’T have to, and WONT accept their desire to water down the Torah

• 1234567890

  I just would like to point out that wearing a uniform and impersonating an officer or other service branch is a felony and can land you in jail.

  Furthermore, a soldier who acts unbecomingly can be discharged and or imprisoned.

• Pilpul-Lite

  I don’t get it.

  Why would someone who is “Chabad-Lite” give a hang about what “Chabad-Full” has to say? (The reverse is very understandable. It relates to the “poretz geder yashchenu…” issue.)

  Elah maiy, there is some guilt complex lurking inside a “Chabad-Lite-nik”?

  That just ain’t cool. Whatever…
  Get a life. Uvocharta bachayim.Whatever. Awesomwe.

• Shloime A.

  Yossi P.,

  Your editorial is quite weak, if not pathetic. While I don’t agree with all that Doe Namay wrote, the bottom line is this: Our holy Rebbeim stated in no uncertain terms the type of behavior they expected from their chasidim. If there are those that want to evolve or test the waters, they can’t expect us to condone or accept their behavior. If they want to keep their kesher to Chabad, good for them. However, they need to respect the chabad values.

  If you invited me to your home, I need to comply with the rules of the house. If I choose not to, you will not invite me again. If I behave inappropriately at your home, you would ask me to leave. The same analogy can be applied here. If they want to send their kids to chabad mosdos, great. Abide by the rules. This means dressing and behaving appropriately. If they are unable or unwilling to do so, they should simply go elsewhere.

  It’s one thing to say live & let live. It’s another to ask me to condone this lifestyle, which clearly goes against our Rebbeim’s and Torah’s teachings. The same way they expect tolerance, they need to be tolerant of us ‘old schoolers’ and our concerns.

• Amazing!!! Thank you!

  Wow! What a great article, thanks. So true.

• 1234567890

  I just would like to point out that wearing a uniform and impersonating an officer or other service branch is a felony and can land you in jail.

  Furthermore, a soldier who acts unbecomingly can be discharged and or imprisoned.

• #4 very well said

  We need to stop tiptoeing around the truth, in fear of insulting the obviously wrong.

• Mendoza

  Yisrole p. Yr a real man . Because u put yr name to yr opt article . More then I can say to miss anonymous to last Friday article knocking half of Lubavitchers .
  Looking forward to wishing u good shabbos in the shull that fulfills the Rebbas wish .
  Yes. AVATH YISROAL . With out conditions

  I heard it directly from the Rebba after every farbrengen

• Start @ the top..

  Every body has a head and without one, rest can’t function.

  Nothing has been the same since 3 taamuz, even our ‘top’, our ‘rabbonim’ cant get their act together.. just saying!

• Uniform Shmuniform

  So I am Canadian. If I wear an American Flagged Tee, I can get deported. Yikes!

• Stop looking..

  If it’s too bright out there, pull down your shades.

• You are what you eat!

  What does CH have to offer that no other Chabad Community can’t? What is SOOOO special about CH that only the ELITE can dwell in?

  It’s not like all CHABAD OWNED stores are selling CHABAD ONLY food. Isnt food as, if not more, important as livush?

  Why don’t we see ppl making making a stink bout the food they’re selling here?? OUD, Satmar etc.

  Everyone is so busy worrying about what the other is wearing and not caring enough bout what CH really stands for.

  Like 39 says; We cant even agree on a Rav!! (Hafta recruit one from Aussie Land- where is he btw?)

  Nothing has been the same since 1994. It’s time for you ppl to get off your high horses and start with the monopoly of the shechuna and not the actual victims.

• Andrea Schonberger

  To everyone out there: a Yid is a Yid, period! End of statement.

• Hechsher Info

  If OU-D food is being sold in Chabad stores, that is just a reflection of how the lite crowd has no shame in eating whatever they want and buying it right in the Rebbe’s shechuna. I don’t look for what I’m not supposed to eat so I don’t find it – I have no recollection of seeing OU-Dreck in any store that is in operation today (I may have seen it in one that has closed and that had many non-Jewish customers in any event).

  “Satmar” is another story. First of all, most “Satmar” (CRC) products carry another hechsher, often the OK which we all know is Lubavitch-owned. Then, you have “satellite Satmar” such as the Volover Rov whose son HYD was in Mumbai, and his brother or cousin the Nirbator Rov.

  I don’t know if the Volover and Nirbator products were even under the ban against Satmar (I was told not to eat Meal Mart meat but we always preferred our own shechita anyway) – and in any case that machloikes is over.

  There are a handful of Satmar products under Reb Aron’s faction’s hechsher (palm tree symbol) that did not even exist when the ban was put into effect. Given Reb Aron’s attitude toward Chabad, and his Ahavas Yisroel, I would eat that hechsher with pride.

• Real or imagined?

  I’ve read both articles with great interest. There are valid points made by both. However, if I understood the first one correctly, the argument was not about accepting people as Yidden rather, the level required to call oneself a chossid of chabad chassidus. The pshat of the word chossid should be a clear giveaway to the behavior required of a person who CHOOSES to call himself such or follow a chassidus. One can be close to a chassidus and follow a Rebbe without being a chossid.

  Every single person is going to struggle with their own personal yetzer hora. Chassidim are no different. At times there is a yerida letzorach aliya but when you have a constant yerida and flaunt it with impunity, one should not argue that they are being ‘judged’. This is all on the level of an individual. Unfortunately, we have become used to painting everyone with the same brush.

  I walk away from the discussion with a couple of lessons reiterated in my mind: 1-Ensure that my standards are up to par and that my children and students have a real dugma chaya in their midst.
  2- Get to know someone before leaping to conclusions. Perhaps she is not chabad lite as much as she is unsure of what is chabad right.
  3- Clarify the situation for my children as needed. With the proper understanding of halacha and chassidus and their place in yiddishkeit, they will pave their own way even if their surroundings are not what I want for them.

  Ultimately, this is the way I was raised (on shlichus) and B“H my parents did an amazing job. Start by being honest with yourself and the rest will come Be”H. Hatzlacha to all of you.

• KN

  Thank you, Yisroel P., for your article. Instead of making me like running from Lubavitch, like “Doe Namay”’s article did, it gives me hope that there are still those in Lubavitch who remember that it’s the neshama that matters – not the levush.

• malach

  As far as I know CH is unlike New Square or Kiryas Yoel NOT an incorporated entity, i.e. everybody is allowed to act in any way that makes him/her feel good, as long as no secular laws are violated. There is nothing anyone could do if, for argument’s sake, Breslov or any other group decided to open shop in CH.
  It’s a free country, so get used to the idea…

• coke fan

  “chabad lite” is good
  as long as its not “chabad zero”

• beautiful op-ed!

  reb yisrael, you’re a good man, the kind of lubavitcher that makes people love yiddishkiet and want to do better and strive to grow.

  the others are a boosha to chabad. the rebbe would have been ashamed to hear such judgmental and alienating talk coming from his supposed chasidim.

• Shmuel

  Whose responsible?
  I can’t really answer that directly but I’ll give a mashal.

  If a teacher goes on vacation, the children make trouble and he comes back a week later, whose responsible?
  The correct answer would be te students. However, following lfnei iver and “there’re kids” reasoning, no one is.

  On 3 tamuz, I’m sure many of us here asked ourselves “when will this whole thing die down”? Guess what, it’s been almost 20 years and we’re going pretty strong.

  Chabad is fading, but Bh not as quickly as we thought.
  The problem we have here affects boro park, Monsey, Lakewood, Flatbush and many other communities yes besides for new square and their fires no one dare judges their fellow brethren

  So my advise to you, mr “annonymous coward”, shut your hole and go preach or light fires in new square because in OUR community we will do as we please.

  With blessing for true ahavas Yisroel, moshiach now!

• to # 28

  Last weeks article clearly stated that it was NOT talking about baal teshuvos. Nobody in crown heights has a problem with a baal teshuva making their way back. The problem is with people who grew up completely frum in a frum family, school and neighborhood who decide to push the envelope. There is a difference. And everybody knows that.

• Nisht tsu farshteyn

  We don’t eat Satmar hechsher because of a fight we had with them 30-40 years ago!?

  This is us? – the champions of Ahavas Yisroel?

  Virtually all the people involved in that machlokes are dead or almost so. Do we have to continue ancient hatreds?

  Tzenius standards of 30-40 years ago have flown out the window. But the sinas chinom of that period remains with us!

  Disgusting!

• Lubavitcher

  to all you people who keep on saying “we love you as a jew friend and neighbor” but cant accept us for who we are who are you fooling?? u dont love us!!! you want us out of ur face and you despise us….stop with your fake love

• AA

  The time: About 1730 BCE.
  The place: An up-and-coming Jewish neighborhood, currently mostly settled by non-Jews.
  On the one side: Reb Avram Ha-Ivri. On the other: Ivri Lite.

  Reb Avram is the embodiment of chessed and of outreach; he’s got thousands of mekuravim all over the world. But the younger generation – the natural successor to the Ivri tradition, as far as anyone knows – is taking chessed a little too far (indeed, he’ll end up doing a perverted form of “chessed” that leads to the creation of bitter enemies of Reb Avram’s true successors).

  Faced with no choice, Reb Avram doesn’t just write a stern op-ed; he asks Ivri Lite to leave. Very nicely, but firmly. He still cares for him, of course, and when disaster overwhelms the new neighborhood where Ivri Lite lives, Reb Avram is ready to help even at the risk of his own life, and to take on four superpowers. But he still will not have Ivri Lite anywhere nearby, and indeed eventually ends up moving away when the latter’s version of “chessed” and “ahavah” becomes notorious.

  “Ahavas Yisroel!” goes the cry throughout the land. “Being mekarev tachas kanfei hashechinah! He’s gezhe – his father died al kiddush Hashem!” And yet we see that Hashem Himself gave His seal of approval: only “after [Ivri Lite] had separated from him” did He once again speak to Reb Avram.

  Vehanimshal muvan…

• no one special

  Throughout the history of Lubavitch, chassidim went to towns & cities where they and their families were exposed to Jews who had not embraced Torah values. Their children were exposed to styles of dress & ways of life that were the opposite of what their parents were teaching them. Many Jews were brought to Torah values.
  If you have a problem with other “styles” become a chossid in peltz.

• stop confusing issues!

  Enough with these op-ed’s on either side of the coin. None of these writers and philosophers, has the ability to fully convince and impress their opinion. Everyone has the right to express their voice, of course, but it seems that the dialogue muxes up many issues, many facctors and many facts. No one has the right to judge and label, chabad hard or chabad lite, organic chabad etc… etc… There is one and only Chabad. No one claimed or tried to recreate the drech of Chabad ch“v. Each group or community founder and/or leader had his/her idea where they can bring the view and derech of ouyr Rebbeim in a way to benefit someone or a group. No one is alive today that has the authority to set the barriers or guidelines to judge others. One exception though, YOURSELF!!! Evaluate YOUR commitment and HONEST commitment to Darkei Hachassidus, your HONEST commitment in investing time effort and sweat in chunuch bnei habayis (educating and maintaining the level of adherence in the family), judge your own level in order to raise the bar. When you will be a real role model, people will gravitate towards you. These kind of incindiary writings are great for the website but detrimental for the dialogue. There are a lot of issues here, from the factors that caused these phenomenons and diverse lifestyles and the permissiveness of it, to the guidelines of what lifestyle should be considered Chabad, and at what point and level one is no longer connected ch”v (BTW _ a term which I don’t remember ever seeing in the Reebeim’s teachings or ever heard from my mashpi’im z”l!) Does the Levush (uniform) make the Chossid? Does the length of the skirt or Kapote make the Chossid (BTW _ Tznius is a Halocho not a derech Hachassidus), Does the inner charachter make the chossid? is it perhaps a balance of the two? or perhaps it is a constant process to be a Chossid and can only be evaluated by each individual with the help of his/her devoted mashpia!
  I have visited many Shuls in the Shechunah and I was very pleased, uplifted and encouraged with what I saw. You know why? I went with the attitude to be non judgmental! I didn’t go to judge and find flaws. I went to spend a moment or a Tefilah in each Shul. IEach Shul added something very positive to my outlook.

• 12245

  no one hates another Yid. If you want to leave CH please do so. CH has become like a chabad house in yehupitzvill, USA. Please you know when you are wrong. Keep to the standards of a frum jew or go where you can join a group that is not up to our standards. Balllei Teshuva are ok if you are becoming frum according to the standards that we are. Even if slowly, But the dress!!!! the speech!!!!!!!!!! the actions!!!!!!!!!!. Do not corrupt our kids

• A Yid is a Yid

  I agree with Andrea Schonberger

• Livid in Lubavitch

  Why is it expected for mainstream Lubavitchers to accept lax standards? Why can’t Lubavitch Lite see OUR point of view…that we are offended by the way you act & look?

  That has nothing to do with you as people (except insofar as you don’t have any respect for us but expect us to allow you to behave & dress as you want.)

  When are you all going to realize THAT WE HAVE RIGHTS, TOO??????????? That we want to be able to live in a neighborhood where our kids CAN tell the difference between white goyim & Yidden? That our ways are respected?

  Why does it always have to be YOUR way? You want to dress inappropriately or behave badly? Go to Manhattan or Park Slope. You’ll fit in there. I don’t want to feel like an outsider in my own neighborhood.

  You choose to live here, conform & show respect to the values the Rebbe set. Don’t you dare tell me you loooooooooooooooove Lubavitch. No, you don’t. You looooooooooooooove causing agmos nefesh to your family, to your neighbors & embarrassing your own children as they grow up. To say you are mekusher to the Rebbe (but of course, in your own soedid way) is an insult to the Rebbe.

  Lubavitch as a group loves all Jews BECAUSE THEY ARE JEWS. It doesn’t mean we have to accept these things & especially on our turf. Respect goes both ways. I’ve yet to see any of you show any to the people who live here.

  You don’t like what I say? TOUGH. Change or get out. This is nothing to do with a lack of Ahavas Yisrael, it’s everything to do with protecting my children from influences that go against the grain of what they learn in Yeshiva & at home. I can protect them against goyim. How the heck do I protect them against YOU?

• shlomo

  it’s funny that CH people talk about ahavas israel! realy? have you ever compare prices in ch with any others Jewish place in NYC? have you ever try rent room/ apartment in Ch? what about advertising in 770 about $2000 for smal room in wet basement on tishrei?what about advertising special for shluhim in 770? did you see that price, instead explain where is applestore? have you ever see basements that people rent in CH? what about you speak? you people drink blood from all nongeza and hozrei letshuva, and speak about ahavas isroel????????. shame you!!!!
  p.s. yes i personal knew people, that do biiiiig mitzva, and take completely free a lot of guest around of year, not only in tisherej, but this exactly not geza -hamokom ivareh otam!

• sr

  Very Sad Sitch here! Everybody should work on their own weaknesses and stop dwelling on everybody else’s. They have their own parents to do that, its not really any of your business.

• moshe der g

  hashem help us
  rebbe help us

  u all write (most of you) about love and about the love the rebbe has for every yid.

  unfortunatly some of you have no idea what the rebbe said. go and learn the sichos listen to the farnrengens and hear how the rebbe who we all know has the most love to every yid spoke and said about the topics you speak about

  “lubavitch munt seder”

  did you know what it took to get into “tomchei temimim” when the rebbe rashab started the yeshiva. what a bochur had to achieve to be called a tomim.

  yes we need to love every jew yes we need to “accept” every jew but we dont need to live like them. we dont need to justify it and say it is correct and right. no we need to say “yes i accept you as ajew but you are not a lubavitcher” but it is wrong it is against torah (if you do thinks that are like cutting your beard etc)

  you want to send your child to a school tehre are standards any school college universty all have standards and so should our chabad yeshivois and to all those that dont want to adhere to them “ i love you and accept you ” but open your own school with your standards (or maybe if the yeshiva my child goes to doesnt fit what i like illopen my own) just as i love you and every jew. if i invited someone to my house for dinner and they broght me food they cooked in their house would you say nu i need to love them and accept them for who they are so i should serve what they made.knowingthat it was made in a non kosher kitchen (yes treif is a isuur from the torah just like cuttingyour beard and tznius and smoking on shabbos etc etc lite stuff”

  so i end off off saying yes i love youand yes i accept you and yes do as you please but i dont need to justify it and say it is right ( i dont need to throw stones at you whenyou walk ) but i dont to agree with you. i can disagree with love.

  if someone has a contagious disease and refuse to get treated may it be a contagien through a cough or other ways) would you say i love you accpet please come into my house….

  what is going on is a contagiuos disease

• rochel cohen

  why all the praise for using his name?? he didn’t, all he did was use a common name that probably isn’t his anyway. he is just as anonymous as anyone else on here. if u want to stand up and be a man, use ur full name!!

• Still Lubavitch at heart

  I went to Bais Rivkah for High School and bais yaakov before that. I felt the warmth of Lubavitch because although I was not “FFB”, I could be part of the community. I later married a “Lubavitcher” man. My marraige ended 11 years later in divorce. Instead of helping or reaching out to me, I was called a whore and moved out of CH. I did not want this disgusting behavior to effect my children. I became non observant and resented then and still do, when people tell me i am not religious. What I am is non observant.
  My children were cast away by their Lubavitch father and as adults continue to have no relationship with him.
  It is not a reflection on the Rebbe that his “Chasidim” choose to act in a way that Torah tells us not to. It is a choice that these pompous, self serving and judgemental people have decided amongst themselves is the Chabad way. AHAVAS YISROEL is the Jewish way because that is what we are, JEWS.

• football player

  and I’m a pro football player!

  Only problem is, I don’t know the rules of the game, never touched a football & can’t even tell you the names of the team!!!

  Am I a pro football player?

• To # 44

  Thank you for showing what chabad hard is all about. Calling OU dreck is typical of the so called real lubavitch attitude. Bashing everyone who does not follow you, making fun of baal teshuvas, the modern orthodox, satmar, and who can forget the litvish goyim. I will never forget how in yeshivah my mashpiah would farbrang for hours making fun of litish with made up stories.

• Really fed up

  Thank you #6 and 59.Stop the pandering.And why is everybody talking about teenage girls?The married women are much worse!And most of them grew up in frum homes. They know exactly what they are doing!Why does my son after learning in mesivta a whole day have to walk home and see such pritzus because some self centered ladies are dying for attention.The mosdos waitd too long to put their foot down.Ten to fifteen years ago it had to be stopped.Any parent of a child in any of our schools seen walking without being dressed according to halacha or their husbands with a shaved beard or shorts and flip flops should be told that their child will be suspended for 3 days and the parents should have to sit with a designated man or women to relearn the halachos. Things would be very different!Enough!!!

• to # 63

  I was thinking exactly the same thing….every bit as anonymous as the first article

• Just a someone

  bs’d

  Just letting you all know that there actually are non-frum people who read these articles (and all the comments!) to try to “get the insider look”. I am absolutely confident that none of those will become interested in Chabad – light, heavy, dark – anything you call it after this. Moreover, I don’t feel a desire to identify with “CHabad” myself after having familiarized with all of this. Just simply disgusting. I am sorry.

  As to the content, this is all semantics. What are we going to call what. Who the hell cares? Just serve Hashem with joy, and try to cultivate the same in your kids.

  thank you for the article, Yisroel P.

• shlomo

  to #63 i knew some hundreds rAchel cohen and some rochel KAtz? so what? what about you speak? i meet in my live hundreds shlomo levy, so what ?they fake? why you need it? you not work in kgb? and fbi i think can find all people even w/o name. how old you are?

• Yakov Kirschenbaum

  BS“D

  Why are the authors of the orginal ”chabad Lite” article and this article both anonymous? What are you guys afraid of?

  If you’re not willing to put your name behind your article, it’s probably something you shouldn’t be writing.

• Chabad lite

  I am reading this article and it’s got me thinking that this close minded behavior of “my way or the highway” is what created your mess in the first place.

  Who are the creators of this so called “lite” lifestyle?

  You are!!!! These are your children, YOUR children!

  All you abusive chasidim that consider yourself religious like the way you are suppose to be.

  Here are the reasons why our children are turning out this way.

  1. Lack of education.
  Look around us in crown heights, and around the world, Our children are not educated and can no longer make a living.

  Because you are so closed minded and stubborn to understand that they need jobs and they can’t get jobs without a proper education.

  30 years ago the goal was to go on shlichos, and there was plenty of open spots to go to, however today the only ones that get it out a select few, shluchims bring their kids into the family business. So where do the bt’s kids go? The answer is nowhere.

  2. Bal tzsuva

  90% of the bal tshuvas through Chabad are educated profressionals, doctors, lawyers, with a full education, thief kids on the other hand are not, we need to stop molding the system for only the shluchims children’s!! We need to think about tr other 85% of the Chabad community.

  3. Shluchims are and leaders are to blame.

  It pains me to say this however the institutions are run by so called shluchim, they are responsible for the educational instatutions that we trust and blindly send our kids to, the schools are designed for their kids not bt children, they are educating our kids to be shluchim when the times comes there are no openings for our kids only for theirs.

  4. People with beards can be far more dangerous than news without.

  There are many cases of so called real chasidim that have been taking advantage of our children in yeshivas, and the majority of us The one that you call themselves frum, are trying to brush this issue under the rug, instead of confronting and investigating how many kids have endured this abuse.

  The list goes on and on.

• Yakov Kirschenbaum

  BS“D

  The anonymous author of this article did not address the core issue of the anonymous Chabad-Lite’s article; that the modernity in Crown Heights is having a negative influence on the less-modern people, especially children.

  Crown Heights, the Rebbe’s shchunah, is at a higher standard than Chabad Houses. There’s nothing wrong with wanting Crown Heights to live up to what it is – the Rebbe’s shchunah and the ”capital city“ of Lubavitch.

  At the same time, everyone, including so-called, ”Chabad-Lite“ obviously must be treated with the utmost Ahavas Yisrael, because that’s what Torah, and especially Chassidus, demand. Otherwise, any effort to improve the situation: 1)won’t work 2) even it would work, it would be a mitzvah haba’ah ba’avreirah.

  Suggesting that the so-called ”Chabad Lite“ separate themselves (”segregation!“), and run their own mosdos, (as the anonymous author of the ”Chabad-Lite” article suggests) doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of Ahavas Yisrael at all. Hopefully, there is a better solution.

  G-d bless Crown Heights

• The Internet Mashpia

  I was born and raised in Crown Heights. I went to Lubavitcher Yeshiva. I trimmed my beard from the day it started growing. I went to farbrengen, dollars, kosh shel brocho, hakofiss, tekiyis, lekach etc … the Rebbe never said a word to me about my beard. In fact, the only time he gave me a funny look, a “mussar” look for lack of a better word, something to the effect of “look what the cat dragged in,” was when I went to bentch esrog that final year. By that point, I already had my FULL beard. I was learning every day. I was a “Chosid.” So to all you overheated “Chassidim” who don’t like “Chabad-Lite” and think it’s incumbent on you to take matters into your hands, it’s even sounding as if you think it’s your job to put those hands on other people, to protect the purity of the Rebbe, I’m telling you that you’re wrong. You’re flat wrong. You’re dead wrong. If you want to be a chossid, stick you nose in a sefer and purify the air inside your head. Invite someone from the street inside and learn with them. It’s much easier to “work on” other people than yourself. You’re not going to win the battle on the street. You’re only going to make things worse. 30 years ago, “Lubavitchers” didn’t automatically put on a capote. The Rebbe had no problem with regular Lubavitchers wearing suits. 30 years ago, Bar Mitzvah boys didn’t automatically start wearing Rabbeinu Tams. 30 years ago, Lubavitchers didn’t have this obsessive compulsive disorder about bugs. 30 years ago, people wore weekday shirts during the week and “Shabbos” shirts on Shabbos. 30 years ago, very few people ate inside bags on Pesach. And certainly no one was advocating the “Tznius patrols” and other coercive violent methods that seem to be brewing. But at the same time, the regular people had a much healthier, much more natural affinity to Yiddishkeit. Extremism on one end is what’s causing the “extremism” on the other end. The more “Frum” people get, the more other people will go off the derech. I’m not talking about lowering standards. But I am saying that the more people move toward the Shulchan Oruch from one end, people will move toward the shulchan oruch from the other.

• Time for change

  The “Chabad spring ” is coming to take out the extemist.

  There is no room for extremism in the world any more.

• Adding on to time for change

  Or history will repeat itself…..

• We need outside help

  Author, please post, this is te reason why we are here today.

  I am reading this article and it’s got me thinking that this close minded behavior of “my way or the highway” is what created your mess in the first place.

  Who are the creators of this so called “lite” lifestyle?

  You are!!!! These are your children, YOUR children!

  All you holy chasidim that consider yourself religious like the way you are suppose to be.

  Here are the reasons why our children are turning out this way.

  1. Lack of education.
  Look around us in crown heights, and around the world, Our children are not educated and can no longer make a living.

  Because you are so closed minded and stubborn to understand that they need jobs and they can’t get jobs without a proper education.

  30 years ago the goal was to go on shlichos, and there was plenty of open spots to go to, however today the only ones that get it out a select few, shluchims bring their kids into the family business. So where do the bt’s kids go? The answer is nowhere.

  2. Bal tzsuva

  90% of the bal tshuvas through Chabad are educated profressionals, doctors, lawyers, with a full education, thief kids on the other hand are not, we need to stop molding the system for only the shluchims children’s!! We need to think about tr other 85% of the Chabad community.

  3. Shluchims are and leaders are to blame.

  It pains me to say this however the institutions are run by so called shluchim, they are responsible for the educational instatutions that we trust and blindly send our kids to, the schools are designed for their kids not bt children, they are educating our kids to be shluchim when the times comes there are no openings for our kids only for theirs.

  4. People with beards can be far more dangerous than news without.

  There are many cases of so called real chasidim that have been taking advantage of our children in yeshivas, and the majority of us The one that you call themselves frum, are trying to brush this issue under the rug, instead of confronting and investigating how many kids have endured this abuse.

  The list goes on and on.

  The world is changing and we must adapt or we will persecuted like we did time and time again in history.

• be honest with your self

  for cryin’ out loud,of course the rebbe wants ahavas yisroel but he ALWAYS demanded standards from us his chasidim.you don’t care what i think fine but the way you dress hurts the rebbe and shaim lubavitch beyond words.

• Chabad spring

  That exactly what needs to happen for mashiach to finally come, these so called chasidim are reshoim and the so called Chabad spring are whom will bring moshiach.

• Stop & Think

  Why do people confuse acceptance, agreement, & love?
  I can love you & respect as a Yid, but that doesn’t make you Chabad.
  Just because you aren’t Chabad doesn’t mean I can’t love you & respect you as a Yid.
  You can be a great Jew but that does not make you Chabad.
  Who is a Chabadnik? Someone who follows Chabad Minhogim & does what the Rebbe says.
  Not someone who just says he’s Chabad.
  Same way a certificate doesn’t make you a Jew.

  BT’s have schools of their own. Why? So their residual habits shouldn’t drag us down before they get cleaned up.
  Same here.
  If someone is in a down-slide, while we have to help him, we must make sure not to get dragged down with them.
  The Rambam writes about the importance of a good atmosphere. Look it up.

  As we say in Birchos Hashachar: Hatzilany Michover Roh Umishochen Roh, Vichulu.

• Chabadnik living abroad

  All the author of the above article is saying, the way I understtand it, is that people should STOP JUDGING OTHERS!

  #68 – brilliant!

  Why don’t we all focus our energies on doing what the Rebbe said, doing “random acts of goodness and kindness” to bring Moshiach and let’s all be Chabad “LIGHT”!

• Mikvah

  Stop spreading diseases in the mikvah, foot fungus, and all kinds of other diseases..

• to all my dear and crazy friends

  #1 crown heights is part of NYC which is part of the state of NY which is part of the USA and in case anyone forgot the USA is a FREE country, every inch of it.

  #2 who put you in charge of policing your community, if you dont feel you can raise your children with all this “klipa” surrounding you and your schools you have the freedom to pick up and MOVE to a place you feel would work better.

  #3 chabad lite is not a bad term its a realistic term. im not sure how many of you realize that over 50% of chabad now have spent the majority of their life — not listens seeing the rebbe — rather hearing from messed up mashpim, parents and teachers what the rebbe expected from them. We are all happy for those that grew up and lived and brethtred the rebbe while he was inspiring you here beguf gashmi, but for most of them who did not get that, i would have to imagine chabad lite is better than no chabad.
  #4 judgment does go both ways, however one who goes off to be “chabd lite” usually wont be writing about the crazy old school dark chabad people showing his chabad lite kids some old and out of date style of living. usually they live and let live. however it seems increasingly more often for dark chabad to be stuffing their agenda down everyone else throat, that’s call JUDGING and you ought to stop or simply understand that this is the reality and figure out a way to make it work.

  #5 to the news agency’s that publish these, i read your site on a daily basis and im sure there are many more that do as well, keep in mind how many young not chabad lite people are reading this and getting turned off of the proper chabad. you are part of the community so you are part responsible for any bad that comes of you posting this. and same goes for the chabad lite guy and any follow up posters you are cousing lots of damage more than repair with these posts.

• MISSING THE POINT!

  WE LOVE EVERY JEW BUT IT IS DOWNRIGHT EMBARASSING TO PRETEND TO BE A CHASSID WHEN YOU DO THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THE REBBE BEGGED YOU TO DO.
  CHABAD IS NOT AN INHERITANCE,
  NOR IS IT BASED ON WHERE YOU LIVE
  IF YOU LOOK LIKE ONE, ACT LIKE ONE, THEN YOU ARE; IF YOU DONT;THEN YOUR NOT
  YOUR ONLY FOOLING YOURSELF IF YOU BELIEVE OTHERWISE.
  IT SAYS THAT THE REBBEIM WERE ABLE TO CHOOSE WHICH NESHAMOS THEY WANTED TO BE THEIR CHASSIDIM; THEY SAW ENORMOUS POTENTIAL IN YOUR NESHAMA; DONT FAIL THEM!!

• I am Chabad Lite

  It is ironic that Chabad is considered “Chasidic Lite” by other types of Chasidim and ultra-orthodox.
  So what’s the difference if we now have “Chabad Lite”?

• to # 82

  Kind of random, but okaaaaay…..

• Time for change

  Chabad chasidim are turning into a bunch of fools, you lost all concept of love for your fellow jew, it’s time to back to the basics, we are first jews then lubavitchers, you are the ones that are turning it the other way.

  Shame on you, you lost all the good the rebbe showed you.

  It’s time to start again, Chabad these Days in big cities where there are more than 5 of you in a single city is full of sinas chinom. You are not chabadnics ,you are wrist then goim(they show more love to there than you do) shame on all you do called Lubavitcher chasidim, te rebbe is turning in his grave.

• OU-Dreck to 66

  1) Where did you see me attack Satmar? I said the opposite. I explained why there is a huge difference between reliable products that are associated with an old, buried issue and products that are far below our standards.

  2) I am sorry, but for Lubavitchers, OU-D(airy) is OU-Dreck. I don’t live in NY anymore, so I don’t have the luxury of avoiding OU altogether, but I would if I could because of the hatred that their posek, Belsky, vomited out in Mishpacha. I also have heard reports of abusive behavior toward Lubavitchers who worked for them and left because of this. I know that they may have a few shluchim doing some hashgocho work for them, but OK is a million miles above OU even though the Rebbe did tell Rav Levy (the father AH) that he should allow his hechsher on non-CY dairy.

  Also, I forgot to mention that some grocers may be forced to keep some OU-Dreck items on their shelves to be able to accept WIC. WIC is a lifeline to mothers in CH, especially to koilel mothers who are supporting soon to be shluchim and raising the next generation of real Chassidim.

• Chabad Classic - It-s the Real Thing!

  The correct opposite for Chabad Lite is indeed Chabad Classic.

  Some of us, myself included, may be physically heavier than our lite counterparts, especially as our average age is probably higher, but there is nothing “heavy” about Chassidus. We may dress “darker,” but actually minor points like colored vs white shirts on weekdays are not as important as some people might think. (In fact, stressing minor points too much may be a cause of some of the “Lite” rebellion, but that is an essay in itself.)

  Chabad Classic is the opposite of spiritual “heaviness,” and the opposite of the “heavy” burden of keeping up with the hevel havolim of the material world. It is also the opposite of “dark” unhappiness and worry, which is often generated by not knowing who you are and feeling the pull of the material world as it tempts your yetzer.

  In fact, we Chabad Classics are the “lighter” ones – we carry less “dark” and “heavy” baggage and can therefore participate in the material world on our terms. We try to do our best to make sure our terms conform with the terms of Hashem as taught to us by our Rebbeim from the Alter Rebbe to unzerer Rebbe.

• STOP THIS NOW

  This argument truly makes me sick. Every person has the right to be who they are. It is not the right of anyone else to judge. I myself am Chabad extra lite. What does this mean…well by most peoples standards at least in this backward community…I am not frum. I grew up frum and became Lubavitch later on in life. Why did I fry out…well because I lived in a community that judged and it pushed me so far away that I would rather give up my relationship with Hashem than spend another minute living in a place that put me down. About a year ago midst my true fight against the man I moved to Crown Heights. Most people asked me why Crown Heights, why live in a place that you are so admittedly opposed to. My answer its cheap and my friends live here. I can admit that my first few months here were hard but I made it through. I didn’t agree with many things I saw and got angry. But I finally came to the conclusion that you cannot judge other peoples lives. Its like tanya says…Even a Tzaddik cannot walk in the same shoes as a Baal Teshuva…or whatever. I am not speaking directly to this situation but it means that you cannot judge unless you have walked a day in another persons shoes. So unless you wanna walk in my shoes which I will gladly share… YOU CANNOT JUDGE. Recently a friends husband came down on me saying that I shouldn’t live here because people see me and think it is okay for a Jewish girl to be like me. Whats wrong with me? Nothing, nothing is wrong with me. On the outside maybe I am not the most tznius and maybe Im not the best at keeping shabbos. But the only person that knows this about me is me not him. The only thing is he is judging me from outside appearance…what he doesn’t know is what is on the inside. That I say brochos every morning, learn tanya once a week, light shabbos candles on time every week even to the point that I have taken on lighting extra candles for the weeks that I have missed. I encourage all of my friends to stay frum even though I didn’t because I see my mistake and strive everyday to grow closer. Yes I struggle with certain things…and maybe I always will but the one thing I learned about Chasidus and with me everyday is that I may struggle but in order to grow we must struggle. Judging someone for where they are in their life and in their struggle is unfair and cruel. I am so stick of reading about how I am a horrible person because I choose to be Chabad lite or extra lite or whatever you want to call me. The fact is that ATLEAST I AM TRYING TO GROW! So stop judging us! WE DO OUR BEST AND WHATEVER THAT MAY BE IS BETWEEN OURSELVES THE REBBE AND HASHEM.

• out of towner

  I hope this is not too controversial for publication. In E.Yisroel there are numerous einiklech of the Mitteler Rebbe who are learned,Chassidish, and respectful people. Let ten bale-batim in CH bring the right person to America and let the glorious history of Habad continue.Within 5 years he will have 500 Hassidim because the current state of anarchy is intolerable.It’s time for Lubavitch to be reborn.Before the Rebbe ascended to leadership he was also a quiet unassuming figure who was mostly in the bachground.Being leaderless does not work. It’s time to face reality.

• AFTER ALL IS SAID.....

  I HATE TO SAY THIS BUT IT MAKES ME SMILE WHEN I THINK OF IT, SO ILL GO AHEAD AND SAY IT….”THE NEGATIVE,MOSTLY OLDER,CLOSED MINDED TO SPIRITUALITY, AND MORE STUCK IN A PSYCHOLOGICAL ILLNESS (PROBABLY STEMMING FROM FEARS OF POST WAR) CALLED ‘OCD CHABAD’, IS DIEING OUT. LET US WAIT TO DANCE WITH JOY AND EMBRACE LIFE WITH OUR OWN PERSONALITY’S AND UNITE AS ONE.I AM GENERALIZING. LET US PRAY THAT WE CAN HAVE FEAR AND LOVE. I AM UNFAMILIAR WITH THE OCD MINDSET BUT I AM SURE I CAN LEARN FROM YOU TOO. I WILL PRAY THAT YOU WILL OPEN UP TO UNDERSTANDING OTHERS AND I WILL PRY THAT I WILL OPEN UP TO UNDERSTANDING YOU.I REALLY WILL.

• our Rebbe

  Maybe one of the lessons to be learned from the Rebbe’s incessant talking and crying over the Mihu Yehudi catastrophe is; that the definition of a jew can only be made by the laws (Shulchan Aruch) that govern them.
  No person no matter how close or warm his feelings may be for yiddishkeit has a right to call himself a yid on that basis.

  If he does the Rebbe screamed its a LIE and a BECHIYA LIDOIROIS and a GROSS INJUSTICE TO THOSE WHO ARE TOLD THEY ARE JEWISH.

  The Rebbe used to often point out the sad irony that Arabs in th Knesset are deciding who is a jew instead of the clear definitions of Shulchan Aruch.

  SIDE POINT:

  in response to the never ending commentors that the Rebbe is for non-judgemental and tolerant.

  LOI HAYU DEVORIM MEOILAM
  NEVER HAPPENED

  IF THERE WAS EVER AN ISSUEOF PIRTZAS HADAS WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY (OR EVEN SOMETIMES OUTSIDE) THE REBBE WOULD SCREAM BY THE FARBRENGENS, “WHERE ARE THE MASHPIYIM? RABBONIM? MECHANCHIM?”

  TOLERANT?

  NON-JUDGEMENTAL?

  MAYBE THATS THE REBBE LITE.

  CHABAD, AND ESPECIALLY DOR HASHVII WAS AND IS KNOWN FOR THEIR UNAPOLOGETIC AND SOMETIMES FORCEFUL (ALBEIT WITH AHAVAS YISROEL) OPEN DISPLAY OF OUR YIDDISHE VALUES.

  IF SOMEONE WANTE TO CLAIM THE REBBE STANDS FOR TOLERANCE PLEASE PROVE IT.

• Live Free Or Die

  It is perfectly acceptable to be in charge of setting the standard for your own home, deciding whom to invite in and whom to avoid, and steering the direction of your children’s chinuch. However, “your house, your rules” ends at your front door. Unless you live in a community with a homeowner’s association or the religious equivalent thereof, you have no control over the street or the neighborhood.
  If it is of crucial importance that you and your community be protected from the sight of a Jew who do not conform to your standards, and you do not like the idea of moving elsewhere, your only option is to purchase every house and shop in the neighborhood, petition the city to turn the area into a gated community, and require all inhabitants to sign a Frum Contract before you allow them to settle. Until then, you are subject to the same free-market housing and religious situation as everybody else.

  It’s up to you to explain the world to your children. Asking the world to go away so you won’t have to is a little childish.

• MaidofCH

  Although I myself am laissez-faire as far as the diversity of observance here in CH, I can understand the frustration of parents trying to raise their children in the Chassidishe derech. Unfortunately, the attitude of “Chabad-lite” has made me cynical for the following reason:

  It might be easy to dismiss these types as “trash,” or “BT,” or “borderline OTD or MO.” But seeing that quite a few of these people come from FFB, even prominent homes, leaves me with the impression that anyone with money, yichus, or connections can get away with certain behavior.

  The girl who walks around in a miniskirt or the guy who walks around clean-shaven or semi-illiterate probably thinks, “Big deal, Daddy will get me a shidduch/job at his Chabad house anyway.” The effect is demoralizing. It leaves me not only without any role models but any incentive to want to improve my own level observance.

• ou drek ahavas yisroei

  Im glad one rabbi fro the ou can give you so much distaste that probably practices kiruv to a higher level than most organizations side from chabad keep your ahavas yisroel going hypocryt

• I beg an answer

  As soon as someone writes something about crown heights the “holier than thou” are onto the tznius bandwagon. Funny …. the sinnas chinum roles right off your backs. I was at a Nshei class where a woman “mussered” yes, on tzinius. She doesnt talk to her brothers in law and sisters a in law . {money,,, surprised? I walked out. Couldnt stomach the hypocricy. By the way , Why is it always the lenghts of the womans skirts and who is or isnt wearing socks. Rarely the length and the missing beards. I honestly think the day everybody is tznius you will all cry. What will you guys do all day. This musser became your obsessions

• awacs

  66. ‘Calling OU dreck is typical of the so called real lubavitch attitude.’

  You misunderstand.

  #44 didn’t call OU ‘dreck’, what he was referring to was OU-D, which he called dreck. He’s not looking down at OU mashgichim, just their practice of being machshir cholov stam.

• sum guy

  What all this crap boils down to is; That while to anyone’s casual observance – an average, garden-variety OIS VORF – who doesn’t give a hoot about “chassidishkeit, the Rebbe, Yiddishkeit, Torah & Mitzvos, etc.” – Does NOT want to be “labeled” a confirmed OIS VORF.
  He/She wants to still think that they are “chabad lite” cool-chabad, or anything else but what they really are – AN EMES’N SHTICK DRECK!
  Of course, they will yell and scream….Ahavas yisroel, tolerance, rachmonus, etc. etc.
  But, what they really need to know is that being an ois vorf is NOT LITE and NOT COOL!

• Eli Soble

  There is no doubt this level of internal dysfunction publicly displayed is yet another sign that we are very close to Moshiach. The irony is that if we would be collectively passionate about the Rebbe’s most crucial, primary and overwhelming message , i.e. that we are the last generation of exile and first of Geula and that we are to prepare since it will be full materializing very soon, this issue of behavioral differences would be a footnote instead of a prominent matter. Moshiach will soon fill the void, until then the blessings and goodness of crown heights is available for those who choose.

• no. 74 best comment

  Comment no. 74 .a must read. I work in one of our schools. I also attented this same school for 14 years. Now I feel like I work in Boro Park Why do I have to dress like Boro Park. Is todays menahel smarter and frummer and more chasidish then my pricipals and menahel of my time? I think Not.

• ou drek ahavas yisroei

  he specifically referred to R belsky as the issue not the mashgichims practice itself and we can safely assume that an organization that has rebeim whctually took more than the 10 month speed rabanus that chabad has to offer would not allow a product knowingly thats not really kosher onto the market so thereis no reason for such attitude or disdain and I am sure there are plent of instances here chabad rebeim in the chunuch system has been a huge factor in creating this chabad lite in the first place likeit says in the pirkei avot lets fix our own house before having sinas chinums on someone elses organization because of one rabbis poor judgment

• OU-Dreck

  Belsky is one problem. The fact that the OU can keep such a baal machloikes around speaks volumes. I don’t know what percentage of kosher food is bought by Chabad-related persons and entities, but it has to be substantial by now.

  Their kiruv (NCSY) is very, very watered down, far worse than Chabad Lite, and they have discussed plans to start working on college campuses davka as an alternative to Chabad. I don’t think they’ll get off the ground for many reasons, but the OU is not our friend and is best relied on only when there is no other choice. Former employees of theirs told me what goes on regarding Chabad there, and it isn’t good.

  OU-Dreck (OU-Dairy) in CH is another problem altogether. If the Anash stores have it, and not just the couple of baby products that they have to have for WIC, that is bad news. When someone wants to break the standards, at the very least they should have to inconvenience themselves for it. Someone who is giving into tayvos and buying cholov akum for consumption in the Rebbe’s shechuna should feel as if he is buying illegal drugs, and he should hide it accordingly.

• ou drek ahavas yisroei

  As Every shliach knows kiruv is a capitalistic system and chabad has had no issues in the past going into situations where there was already established schools in the area and to have such a double standard about baal machlokim when there are plenty in the chabad system such as yourself is absolutely ridiculous and to spead negative information that might or might not be true is already at loshon hara and to think you have any connection to the rebbes schechuna because you read some sichas and maybe do your chitas once in a while does not give you the right to pass such judgement

• Moishele

  To the author of op-ed #1 – you are 100% right. But if your intended targets feel the way they do, as evidenced by the comments, than you have failed to communicate the truth as you see it. As they say in Israel – don’t be right, be smart.

  You also seem to insinuate that “Chabad Lite” has made a conscious, calculated decision about their lifestyle. For many of “them”, whom I count among my good friends and relatives, it has precious little to do with ideology, and their choices are a result of various factors such as education, society, etc (the usual suspects), but the problem is NOT that they have thought and decided to become “Chabad Lite” (not a fan of the term…) but rather that they don’t think about it enough or at all, and don’t have a good mentor to guide them. Most of them would love to have a rabbi/eltereh chossid/wise person in their life that they could go to openly with all of their struggles and concerns.

  To the author of op-ed #2: You are 100% right. But if your intended targets feel the way they do, as evidenced by the comments, than you have failed to communicate the truth as you see it. As they say in Israel – don’t be right, be smart.

  When people such as the author of op-ed #1 hear you say what you said in your article, as valid a point as you may have, they get frustrated with the silliness they perceive in your words. Do you really mean to say that there are no rules, no right or wrong, no “Ol” that we must accept? Of course you don’t. But that doesn’t come across in your words. At least to those you’re attempting to communicate with.

  We need everyone to strive toward the middle path. Open a Shulchan Aruch, follow what it says, lo tosif olov v’lo sigra mimenu.

• Every one needs to chill out.q

  Are you guys out your mind? chabad is excepting of every typ of Jew no matter what but to there own they are the most judgmental people in the world. Enough is enough. The rebbe set up a system and that system is ahvas yisroal. Stop judging people and it’s not about who’s right or who’s wrong, it’s about making it work together. We need to work together to achieve our goal, moshiach.

• Miami

  Beautifully said, totally agree, sounds like a wonderful shul. If young people were shown the beauty of Torah True Yiddishkeit, with the same non judgemental additude as taught by our Rebbe and seen and felt in the Chabad Houses, they would not be looking elsewhere and dressing so provacitively!

• Glad I-m Not Like You Lubo Dr--k

  Many of the comments here are really sad. If the term “Dreck” has to be used in reference to other Jews, it more appropriately applies to those who have been slinging it. “Kol haposul b’mumo hu posail.”

• chaim

  #64, my heart goes out to you and lubavitch- Rebbe. The Rebbe is the only one that is the spokesman. We can blog from today until tomorrow and nothing is going to change. Being a lubavitcher is not just wearing a beard and davening shachris at 11am. Its hard work learning chitas, rambam, working full time, taking care of the kids. Then the ultimate joy, is talking with the wife for 5 minutes at the end of a crazy day. Life is not easy, however your ex-husband does not represent all lubavitchers in crown heights and globally. Nobody has the right in lubavitch to call you a whore, they are playing with fire. Lubavitch is a way of life, chayus, level headed, understanding peoples feeling and responding positively not the opposite. I open my arms in accepting you how you are, with whatever back ground you had. Nobody can understand the pain you went through, and that’s not my point. Your connection with Lubavitch/Rebbe is still strong, like a father with a lost child he finds after many years, he is still the son/daughter of the king.I wish you much bracha and success in your life, and true simcha is with moshiach tzkanu.
  p.s. i am not from gajazer, shliach, rov nor a son of shliach; just a fellow lubavitch who is hurt to see another Jew being trampled upon, stand up and make the Rebbe/lubavitch proud of yourself.

• Former Montrealer

  I grew up in Montreal, in the Yeshiva Tomchei Timimim, which was founded in Montreal by the 9 Sheluchim of the Friediker Rebbe.

  We had many not Frum children in our class (Also children from families that were Chabad and then became more modern), the Teachers and Hanhala knew the risk of what these not Frum kids will bring to the yeshiva and have a Goyishe influence on us.

  Recently I asked one of the people involved, why was this done? His reply was that it was an order from the Rebbe. I can say for certain that the Payros from the generations that came out of the yeshiva in Montreal those times are more solid Chasidim then the ones that are coming out as of late, who currently do not accept any not Frum children.

  My Response to the people that are starting this campaign of splitting up Lubavitchers, you are playing with a Lebidike bombe! You don’t want the Achrayos, of what the end result might be. Noch a Hundred un Tzvansik, you don’t want to be faced with the Rebbe cursing you out like he did on the 15th of Tammuz, and your excuse will be I wanted to protect my children! That was the same excuse that the Rebbe gave for the Misnagdim and Satmar by launching mitzvah Tefilin.

  If you cannot handle what has come of Lubavitch, you have 2 choices:

  1) Create more events to be Mekarev these people, so you can be Devorim Hayotzim Min Halev!
  2) Move to Ponovitch, Bnai Brak or Monroe!

• written very well

  beautifully written and so so true! its refreshing when i find an article thats respectful and dripping with ahavas yisroel

• confused...

  i am so confused. whats happening.
  someone please tell me a joke, you are both right, just do what you think is right for you.

• israeli

  Thanks everyone for the comments :)

• I-m really in the Navy in my heart!

  The original article had nothing to do with Ahavas Yisroel . Read it.
  If you wear a US army uniform you will not blame anyone for assuming you’re in the army, you can try convince them otherwise saying you’re really in the navy deep down,
  But if you look like a duck & quack like a duck…
  So if you trim your beard why is it “judgemental ” to assume you’re modern orthodox or Litvish? How else can someone judge you?
  It doesn’t mean I don’t love you as you are but why should anyone consider you Lubavitch? For that matter why do you want to consider yourself Lubavitch when you really don’t care much for keeping Lubavitch minhagim?

• Giving Chabad a good name

  88. OU-Dreck to 66 wrote:
  I am sorry, but for Lubavitchers, OU-D(airy) is OU-Dreck. …OK is a million miles above OU even though the Rebbe did tell Rav Levy (the father AH) that he should allow his hechsher on non-CY dairy.
  >>

  Did I read you correctly?

  OUD = OU Dreck
  but OKD is a million miles above – because…the Rebbe said so.

  Huh? Are you nuts?

• OU-Dreck to 115

  To 115:

  No, you did not read me correctly – or I jumbled too many issues together.

  We Lubavitchers don’t touch OK-D under any circumstances, and that includes OK-D certified dark chocolate that was just made on the same machines as cholov akum milk chocolate. For us it is OK-Dreck because it is just as metamtem es halev as OU-D or any other supervised cholov akum. However, OK only certifies that cholov akum because the Rebbe approved of that supervision for non-Lubavitch consumers.

  Even though OK is for profit, it was encouraged by the Rebbe and follows the Rebbe’s directives that were given to it (it is a leader in mass market pas yisroel certification which makes many people’s lives much easier). OU is not for profit, but it has an agenda that isn’t particularly friendly toward Chabad.

  Therefore, OK is a million miles above OU in general. Cholov akum, however, is cholov akum. Some people use “OU-D” as a synonym for any certified cholov akum, the way people call tissue “Kleenex” or bleach “Clorox.”

  The real issue, though, is whether stores in “Kan Tziva” display cholov akum products other than the products they must to keep in stock to meet WIC regulations. If they do, it shows how low CH has sunk.

• comment

  O yes ,why don’t we handle heretics, like in New Square.

• huh?

  I would like an explanation-
  first of all I am mod ortho and yes, i do eat ou-D and why are you referring to it as drek? The entire world of orth.jewry is not chassidic even tho many of us love it but why are you so haughty and arrogant that u call this hechsher drek???!

• we all count!

  Wow, speechless on these negative comments and the first article that prompted this one. I would rather place my trust in someone who “quacks” like a duck, than in someone who “looks” like a duck! I know firsthand, looks mean nothing if good middos are non-existent (hint: judgementalism, criticism, intolerance, self-righteous arrogance, sinas chinom are bad middos). I don’t recall anyone being put in charge of deciding who should “belong” in this neighborhood! We are all children of the Rebbe.
  Those arrogant enough to presume to speak for the Rebbe while promoting sinas chinom???? (I’m pretty sure the Rebbe’s message was ACHDUS!) who put YOU in charge??? If you don’t have ahavas yisroel, the rest is worth what??? Yes, we all need to grow and strive to be the best we can – but growth cannot be attained if it involves stepping on others. The only one who can judge another jew is G-d…so who are all these self-appointed righthand judges for G-d? Chabad lite/ chabad hard??? really? – and who gets to decide? What happened to the mindset that everyone is either a lubavitcher or someone who is on his/her way to becoming a lubavitcher…that cannot happen in an atmosphere of intolerance, judgementalism and hate. And all those who are doing so – wake up! YOU are causing the division and yerida in the neighborhood, not the other way around. Who put YOU in charge and gave you the keys to the city???? I don’t recall anyone EVER being turned away from the Rebbe; and on what “moral” high ground did labelling your fellow jew make you the chossid? And for all who assume that my attitude must come from being “chabad lite” – your wrong, i’m not…but if being judgemental and expressing real sinas chinom is what characterizes “chabad hard”? – that’s not chabad as i know it! It isn’t chabad at all! The Baal Shem Tov reached out to everyone – from the most observant to the simplest jew. Chabad isn’t some elite country club where only a few deemed “acceptable” are allowed – it isn’t a club at all! This elitism has got to stop. Fyi – no jew will be left behind!

• ou drek ahavas yisroei

  Honestly this just shows what learning sichas and chitas with no ahavas yisroel ends up

• Amused Observer

  To #26 – I don’t think that the word “our” means what you think it does.

  “Our” house is not the same as “our” neighborhood.

• To #119

  You need to both quack like a duck, look like a duck & live like a duck :).
  Then you’re a duck.
  Pretty simple really.
  And sometimes one needs to have tough love to really have Ahavas Yisroel.
  Tip toeing around kids & OTD adults will never produce a well rounded mench who’s a chasid. And before you start hyperventilating – no you can’t be a chasid without being a mench.
  One cannot be chassidish & not be frum. That’s also pretty simple.

• Chabakooker

  Writing here from Eretz-Yisrael,
  Thank you for reminding me why so many of my Chardal/dati-leumi counterparts are turning to Breslev and not Chabad for deeper spirituality. Notice how child-molesters, wife-beaters, money-launderers, and people with horrible midot are not listed as “Chabad-Lite”? No, only the Chitzoniut matters.
  I’ve worn my colored shirt in Uman for the past five years and nobody bats an eye.
  Is R Ginsburgh the only real Lubavitcher still around?
  Kol Tuv,
  Tzvi Yehuda

• brother from the hood

  YOU ARE WELCOME TO A TANYA SHEIUR SHABBOS MORNING IN CHEVRAH AVATH YISROALE 9.00 AM ON PRESIDENT ST. IN THE BASEMENT OF THE NEVLAR HOME

• CHABAKOOCER RESPONSE

  To actually think that this kind of behavior is only isolated in chabad is nuts there are bad apples in every group so please dont be judgmental on a whole group based on a couple bad apples that unfortunately every group has if anything chabad should be commended for not hiding them in their “basements” like all the other groups have been doing in the past not sure if other groups are doing that anymore either but clearly you can’t fault a group for doing the right thing and exposing their dangers to society

• From Kingston Avenue to Central Avenue

  I live in the Five Towns and it is hardly the Modern Orthodox mecca many posters assume it to be. When was the last time you took a walk down Central Avenue? I would actually venture to say the Modern Orthodox are now the minority here. Where exactly do you think all the frum people from Brooklyn fled to?

• Huh?

  Go somewhere else? Do not corrupt the kids? Well, I found out that some leaders in your community dressed the part and acted the part. Trouble is, some leaders in your community actually corrupted children to the degree of a horrifying lack of morals. So, I see that one can’t depend on a “look” or an accepted “affiliation” to avoid corruption. Isn’t there a better solution than to keep or protect the abusers and send away the “Lites”? Something is not right.