Letter: Airline Coffee Is a Major Kashrus Concern
The following is a letter that I have written to Southwest Airlines about a major kashrus blunder that one of flight attendants did and then went on to brag about. I know that there are no kashrus symbols on Airplane coffee pots, but I felt that since some people think only coffee goes into coffee pots, it should be known that that is false.
Dear Southwest Airlines,
I am a huge southwest fan and the experiences that I have had with your airline have been amazing. This whole trip experience was not any different in ticketing, departure, arrival and flight attendant care. The major major complaint I have is about what I heard one of the very sweet and friendly flight attendants say to one of the passengers on how she prepares her food.
There were 3 flight attendants, a male and 2 females. One of the females was very tall and one was short. This complaint is pointing at the shorter of the two. She was telling a passenger how she makes her own steak salad. She prepares the vegetables and bacon and places them in a container. She then buys a nice piece of meat and sears it at home and then slices it blood red and takes a few slices on the plane with her. She then went on to tell this passenger that to prepare her meat for the salad she COOKS IT IN THE COFFEE POT IN THE BACK OF THE PLANE!!!! She then said she rinses it out in the bathroom. My own hands hardly fit in the bathroom sink, how can she properly clean a coffee pot?! I highly doubt she used hot soapy water or even a sponge for that matter.
I didn’t say anything to her since I felt it was not my place, but I was appalled! As a Jewish woman who keeps the strict laws of Kosher, it would be a huge error on my part to drink from this coffee pot. This would be a huge mistake to any person who is hindu, muslim or even vegetarian! What if she had mistakenly bought meat infected with salmonella or any other type of bacteria and then inadvertently infected anyone who drank the coffee she would then brew?!
From a health standard, there are so many red flags I can’t even begin to point out! What made it even worse was that she went on to say that she learned this “amazing idea” from fellow flight attendants, as well as from the internet.
I will now tell everyone I know in my Jewish community, as well as major kosher supervision plants about what I had heard, so they will not make a huge mistake by drinking coffee that could potentially have bits of meat floating around in it.
I would hope that you will take this complaint with as much seriousness as possible, and please do something about it!
I hope to hear back from someone as soon as possible so I know my complaint has been addressed.
Thank you!
Frequent Flyer
This might be a problem on short domestic flights but on long haul internationalflights the flight attendants eat the unopened and leftover meals from first class which are far better than any steak salad they could cook up at the back of the plane.
a fan of your blog
go Becky!!!
Just a Yid
Who ever said you were allowed to drink coffee on a plane? Aside from Cholov Yisrael concerns, the pots are washed with treif dishes. The only heter might be when the coffee is made in a machine which is never cleaned, or a soda machine where everything is cold anyway (call your Rabbi for a ruling)
It-s even worse
Even if they wouldn’t do it, I’ve been on a plane that had to large coffee thermoses on the cart; one with milk and one plain coffee. I asked if they have a special Dairy free thermoses to accommodate the lactose intolerant and she told me they take two coffee thermoses and randomly add milk to one, and use the other to dispense plain black coffee.
I’m curious for an educated Mashgiach to comment about generic coffee shops (i.e. non kashrus certified) if you can trust their percolators and thermoses enough to assume that dairy was never used in their keilim? And if you say that detergent is “poigem” the taste, would that help (even b’dieved) when it is used with hot liquid?
Crunch
The story sounds highly exaggerated and untypical. Have you ever seen a stewardess eat, no less cook (!), a steak on an airplane??
nurse tzippy
This has always seemed to me to be a problem! I am always wondering what kind of dish detergent they use to clean out the coffee pot and if it has a kosher hechsher. This delemma should be looked into as so many kosher traveler
ask for boiling water for their instant soups etc.
Cma
Thank you for pointing this out.
It would help if others wrote in as well.
What is their email address / mailing address?
analizer
Do you know for certain that she wasn’t referring to the coffee pot in her hotel room? I find it hard to believe that a flight attendant can get away with that, not from a kashrus perspective, but from a health one. That’s besides the question of WHEN she has time to do this. Most flight attendants board the plane 15-20 minutes before the passengers and are busy preparing the plane for departure. They leave the plane about 15-20 minutes after the passengers do (unless they’re staffing the return trip, but there still isn’t enough ‘leisure’ time for them on the plane).
wow
who would have ever thought anyone could cook meat in a pot?? thanks for bringing this to our attention
GO BEC
MAIDEL
to 4
actually the only time i saw a stewardess eating, she ate a steak.
just cause one doesnt see it doesnt mean it doesn’t happen. as the person that wrote the article them self wrote its the first time after many times flying she hear a stewardess say what she said
smicha bochur
just because a flight attendant may have treifed up one coffee pot does NOT mean that you can’t trust coffee pots to be kosher. Certainly this is not a common practice and in kashrus you don’t have to worry about what could have possibly happened when you know that in most cases it would never happen. The issue of washing the pots with treif dishes seems to be a more valid problem although I’m pretty sure there are good heterim as to why that also wouldn’t be a problem.
my
I had heard this many years ago (18 or 20) and then i also heard that they warm up in the pot cold cuts.
Reb Yid
Just because some, let’s say, unusual flight attendant cooks in an airline coffee pot doesn’t necessarily meaj anything. When u buy a pot in a store, you don’t know for a fact that someone didnt buy it before you, cook treif, and then return it. You go by the majority which is unused/kosher. Same thing here. Also, the coffee was made for the majority of the passengers who are goyim, so youre just drinking coffee which was cooked in an aino ben yomo pot for goyim. As far as other issues with the pot, who knows if its really washed with treif pots–after all, what are they really cooking on a plane in pots? And its probaby washed with a davar hapogeim. The cholov akum question i dont understand…arent the pots used for black coffee?
Tzeischem LiSholom
I too have flown 100s of times. From NY-California and many places in between. I’ve never ONCE heard a flight attendant talking about cooking steak in a coffee pot. How could it be that this one has woman heard this conversation repeatedly? I say baloney. She likely fabricated this nonsense from top to bottom. I just don’t buy it.
#3
regardless of kashrus issues, its also a question of health. If the beef was tainted, it could KILL people.
Milhouse
#13, who said anything about repeatedly? You made that up. It doesn’t appear anywhere in the article. She heard this conversation once; you weren’t there, so why should you have heard it?
Starbucks
So is it Kosher
Milhouse
#18, the Starbucks stands in hotels, etc., that only sell coffee and packaged goods are not a shayla. But there is a machlokes about the full-service Starbucks stores, where they also serve treife sandwiches, which they heat in the oven and then put on their plates. Some experts have found that in some of these stores they wash the basket from the coffee machine together with the treife keilim, thus making it treif; while other experts have visited stores and found that the coffee equipment is all washed separately. So it really depends on the individual store and what their washing practices are.
To all the rabbis
I am sure that all people commenting have been properly ordained by their religious rabbinical mentors. For those that haven’t there are many reasons that one may drink coffee at a starbucks or the like. However the reasoning is not for a brief internet comment. Recently the ok and the crc had long articles on the topic. I personally lean toward the ok’s reasoning. However I was not able to discuss the matter with the crc.
Recommended practice
#14:
I would not buy any pots, etc. that are not factory-sealed, for the very reason you state.
To 16
“regardless of kashrus issues, its also a question of health. If the beef was tainted, it could KILL people”
You make it sound as if kashrus is an extra and health is so serious.
FYI, regardless of a health issue, it is also a question of kashrus. If the beef was treif, it could KILL your soul
Anshel.
I just want to know if they, the airline, responded?
FreqTraveler
And this is why products as simple as 100% water need a hashgocho!!
mmz
To #20 If it takes long articles to justify a cup of coffee, chances are that there are some problems.
To #12 Please finish Smicha before Paskening!