Since I am a member of Hanhala I must clarify that although I will try as much as possible to be objective, some points may sound biased due to my extensive involvement in the running of a Yeshiva. I am sure that there are exceptions to the rule, and not everything I write applies to 100% of the cases, and once in a while (5% maximum) there is a rotten apple in the bunch which does not fulfill his job to the fullest extent.
As opposed to the previous Op-Ed which is a unsigned Pashkvil, I am not hiding behind a the anonymity of the Internet, my email is: HanhalaMember@gmail.com Anyone who wishes to seriously discuss this issue can contact me and I will identify myself to them.
Op-Ed: A Expose from a “Destroyer”
Being a member of Hanhala in a Yeshiva, and involved in Chinuch for a few years in various Yeshivas (ranging from the vocational schools to the so-called “best” yeshivos) I take issue with the topics brought to light in this article (Op-Ed: The Destroyers) and especially the tone in which this was presented.
Since I am a member of Hanhala I must clarify that although I will try as much as possible to be objective, some points may sound biased due to my extensive involvement in the running of a Yeshiva. I am sure that there are exceptions to the rule, and not everything I write applies to 100% of the cases, and once in a while (5% maximum) there is a rotten apple in the bunch which does not fulfill his job to the fullest extent.
As opposed to the previous Op-Ed which is a unsigned Pashkvil, I am not hiding behind a the anonymity of the Internet, my email is: HanhalaMember@gmail.com Anyone who wishes to seriously discuss this issue can contact me and I will identify myself to them.
Instead of starting with a “rant”, I would like to point out the way a regular Yeshiva runs, and the system of checks-and-balance that every Yeshiva has at every level, especially regarding the Ruchniyus’dike aspect of the Yeshiva. The “rant” will follow at the end of the article.
1) Accepting a Bochur into a Yeshiva:
When a Bochur applies to a Yeshiva, the first department which looks at the Bochur is the Ruchniyus’dike department (i.e. The Mashgiach and/or Mashpia and/or Rosh Yeshiva) which analyzes the information given on the Bochur and then goes on to investigate about the Bochur. Information is requested from every Hanhala member who had something to do with the Bochur, “Shluchim” or Eltere Bochurim who know the Bochur, and lastly, a few personal references (neighbors and such) who know more about the background of the Bochur and family. This multi-level “investigation” is done to ascertain the qualities, traits, capabilities and behavior of the Bochur from various sources, and try to corroborate every fact while eliminating certain factors that someone might have said which weren’t 100% true.
Once the Ruchniyus’dike department decides to accept the Bochur they will notify the Gashmiyus’dike department of the Bochur, and what their thoughts are regarding this Bochur (if he is a Bochur which they really want in Yeshiva, or a Bochur which can cause them grief but they are willing to give him a chance), and any information which was gleaned from the sources which might impact the monetary situation of the parents. Once this is done the parents are contacted and they have to coordinate with the Gashmiyus’dike department the monetary situation. At no time does the Gashmiyus’dike department have a say in a matter whether to accept the Bochur or not. Obviously if the Bochur isn’t so great and the parents have money for anything but their children’s education – there is no reason to go out of the way and accept the Bochur unless they pay full tuition.
2) Dealing with the Bochur once he is Yeshiva:
Once or twice a month a scheduled meeting takes place in which all the Bochurim are discussed and assesed. Each bochur’s progress in learning and Chassidishe Hanhaga is evaluated to see whether the Bochur has gained in Yeshiva or not, whether the Bochur needs more help in certain areas, and what is his influence on or from his peers. Based on the information culled from the various staff members and Eltere Bochurim a decision is made regarding how to proceed, be it by offering more incentives or by imposing more restrictions on the Bochurim (usually the former, sometimes the latter).
If a specific Bochur shows signs of needing a “singular” approach which differs from the approach to the rest of the Yeshiva, a special meeting is called to discuss the specific situation, be it because of a chronic lack of time-management, or because of behavior which is unfitting of a Chassidishe Bochur in a Lubavitch Yeshiva. These meetings usually end with a pretty clear definition of the situation in which the Bochur finds himself and a way in which to proceed. The next step will be to contact the parents and report to them on the findings.
3) General contact with parents:
This is one of the touchiest issues in a Hanhala, mostly due to the hardship in relaying to the parents the real situation and the scope of the problem (if any). This hardship is due to a natural phenomenon called “Adam Karov Etzel Atzmo”, loosely translated as “A person is biased towards himself”, this phenomenon translates itself into parents not wanting to accept the reality of the situation or help out with it, and in some extreme situations even hamper the Hanhala’s efforts to deal with the situation. Some parents will not return calls, some will attack the Hanhala member on the phone and voice their opinion about their son (which usually isn’t close to reality…). Seldom have I met a parent which was genuinely interested in the facts and even less a parent who is willing to lend a hand to deal with a difficult situation.
I don’t want to get into details, but I want to take the liberty of presenting a phenomenon which has been pretty common this past year – the “Kosher” cell phone: Almost every Yeshiva has clearly made a rule that Bochurim should only have Kosher phones, but this year 50% of the Yeshiva had cell phones and only one! had a Kosher phone. Everyone else had a cell phone on the “family plan” which is paid for by the parents! When the Hanhala had to contact the parents to request they switch to Kosher cell phones most parents didn’t comply, and instead of cancelling their son’s line (on the family plan) they continued paying for it, and if the cell phone was taken away by Hanhala – a new one came in the mail! Some parents went so far to the extent of telling their sons that if they continue on ignoring the Hanhala’s rules “the Hanhala will ultimately give up”.
This causes a situation in which a Hanhala member which gets a random call from a parent who hasn’t contacted the Hanhala in quite some time to find out about their son, and this parent has already shown the interest they have in dealing with the truth – the Hanhala member will try his best to give a decent report and hope the phone call ends on a good tone, because if it ends otherwise – the “Ben Yakir” in Yeshiva will find out about it and increase his resistance to Hanhala.
Every Hanhala member will strive to have as much parent cooperation and involvement in the Chinuch of the children, but it can be hard at times. I would like to believe that the parents are really interested in knowing the full scope of the situation. If the parent wants to be involved – no one will stop them, it will be accepted and appreciated as long as it falls into the pale of reality.
4) The General level of Bochurim today:
“Yeridas HaDoros” is a reality of life which cannot be changed or modified, but we have to try our best and work with it. The Bochurim today come into a Yeshiva without the basic skills of learning, without the basic knowledge of what it takes to be a Bochur in a Yeshiva, without a clear goal in learning and with a myriad of “issues” ranging from lack of social skills to learning disabilities to emotional handicaps and some with a chronic immaturity which impede a Bochur’s success in a Yeshiva. The reasons (in my opinion) for this phenomenon are mentioned in the continuation of the article.
A Hanhala has to constantly deal with and strive to maintain a balance between what is available and what is desired, between disciplining a Bochur and inspiring him to become a better Bochur. This “struggle” between the “Mashpia” (who inspires) and the “Menahel” (who disciplines) has always been in Yeshivos from time immemorial but it has exploded into massive proportions in the recent times.
This causes a great stress on the Hanhala and sometimes manifests itself in mistaken assumptions about a Bochur, which can result in an approach which might not be 100% successful in tackling the issue at hand, but it is understandable by both the Bochur and the parents if the right angle of view is employed. Any “situation” is correctable if there is a clear channel between the parents, the Bochur and the Hanhala. On the other hand, if the parents will not cooperate with Hanhala, and -even worse- if the will speak regarding Hanhala in a derogatory matter, it might have catastrophic results which are not hard to envision.
5) Notifying the Hanhala of other Yeshivos:
When a Bochur ends the year in a Yeshiva, the Hanhala has a priority in saying the truth about every Bochur because it’s a reciprocal cycle, if my Yeshiva will say the truth about a Bochur then they can expect to hear the truth, but if a Yeshiva doesn’t say the truth – then the other Yeshiva will do the same. No Yeshiva wants to be in this position, therefore I find it intriguing that people claim the Hanhala is lying to “force” the Bochur to stay in Yeshiva.
6) People working in Yeshivos:
I would like to finish by tackling the common misinformed notion that Hanhala members are picked based on family connections, etc.
To work in a Yeshiva is a privilege and responsibility, it is also a very time-consuming job with no gratification and minimal pay, there aren’t too many people who want to work in Yeshivos, and those who do aren’t always the right ones for the job, that is why a lot of times a parent who runs a Yeshiva and has children who are capable of working in his Yeshiva will have an easier time to hire a son to work in Yeshiva. It is like in every business, people don’t like doing “dirty” jobs, and a business owner who has to take flak from everyone will feel more comfortable hiring someone from his own family who gre up “inside” the business and feels a personal connection to its success. I have seen quite a few non-Gezhe non-connected people get jobs in Yeshivos if they were willing to work full days and take a paycheck every few months… So this “nepotism” claimed by many is wrongfully looked upon.
I would like to take the liberty point out my opinion on the reason why so many of our children are outside the system, and the blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the parents:
In today’s environment where the secular world has penetrated our circle in many aspects, we find ourselves today more than ever trying to shield our children from the unwanted forces which are out in the open, from the classmates who come from families in which the parents were Lubavitchers at some point but ceased to behave as one (even though they will still identify themselves as Lubavitchers), from the trash that circulates on the internet and from the general attitude of openness which has claimed many of our children. But in the same time we have lost quite a few of the values which have been our “shield” in the past, we have immersed ourselves too much in the surrounding mess that we forgot to look in our home and try to keep it under control.
When a child is growing up he needs total attention, total care and total love from his parents, this is implemented in various ways, but we need to make a system in which the parents have time for their children. Due to financial “difficulties” (we aren’t talking about a lack of bread on the table, we are talking about not having enough to go on vacation or any other extras) the parents find themselves involved in working full-day and returning home late tired and stressed from the work, that they don’t have time to sit down with the child, hear him out, do the homework with him, test him on what he learned, maybe learn something with him. Rather they might hear that he had a hard time today because “the teacher picked on me” and the casual reply of the mother or father will be “Oh, that —-, I have to speak to him, he doesn’t treat you well, don’t worry, you are right. This leads to the child losing ALL respect for the teachers and principal of the school in which he learned.
To make matters worse, after having their 3 minute conversation with the child, the parent will go on to have a lengthy discussion about the latest politics in town or in Lubavitch, whether this “Rabbi” is a —- or that Rabbi got into a fight, and the latest results of any random court case. A child hearing such a conversation in which every person of stature is “trashed” by his parents, he will grow up thinking that all those people are a farce, and obviously he will not respect them or try to emulate them, even though they are people who dedicated their life to helping others and/or learning.
The Rebbe writes in Hayom Yom “Each parent must dedicate a half-hour of his day to think about the education of their children”, and if I may – I would add that today more than that is required due to the intricate nature of educating children in today’s environment. The solution to the above-mentioned problems is by placing our children’s education as our top priority, before anything else. There is no point in “waking up” when the child is 15 and kicked out of Yeshiva (if he is lucky to be in one to begin with) and try to find who is at fault. The fault is of the parents who have relegated their duty of education to an institution and forgot that the institution is just a small part in the education of their children.
Therefore I would recommend that the parents take to heart the following rules which will usually guarantee a successful result and Nachas from the children:
* Each parent should dedicate a half-hour per day to think about the education.
* The parents should dedicate at least a 2 hours per week to sit down together and discuss the progress of their children, the problems and successes, and the solutions to make it better.
* The parents should contact their children’s teachers / principal at least twice a month to hear the situation, and be cooperative with them to try and improve the education as much as possible. Complaining has never solved any problems, and the opposite is quite true.
* If the child complains about something which happened in school, it is imperative to show compassion to the child, but in no means should this be interpreted as if it there is a struggle “Parents vs. the Hanhala”, and obviously that a parent should not speak in a derogatory fashion about a teacher (especially not in front of the child). This will “teach” the child that he is right and he will “pull the string” to the maximum, which will backfire against the parents too, that the child will know that he is always right.
* At least one parent should be home when the children come home from school and sit down with them to do homework. A preferable scenario would be if the parent sits down to learn with the child what he learned in school. If the child is away in Yeshiva then the parents should contact him at least twice a week and have him report his progress.
* The children should see that their parents spend their “free” time doing something productive, i.e. a father when he comes home should sit down and learn his Shiurim or something else, and the child by merely seeing the father learning will gain an appreciation to learning. This has been tested and proven.
* Punishing a child by removing some of his privileges and keeping up to the punishment is a good way of instilling in a child the importance of keeping up to the rules and the consequences of his actions.
* Politics, Machloikes and World News which are not conducive to holiness should not be discussed at all when the children are at home (and better – don’t discuss them at all). Not only that, but if a child speaks about a specific Machloikes or event of political nature – the parents should not discuss it with him, and explain to him that it is not to be discussed. Talking negatively about a Rov or a respected community figure is a guarantee that the child will grow up resenting and disrespecting any authority.
* Yiras Shomayim: The parents should show a living example of the joy of keeping Torah and Mitzvos. They should show excitement about any upcoming Mitzvah, be it washing hands before eating or Davenning with a Minyan. There is nothing more detrimental to a child’s education than watching his father come back home from work and put on Tefillin for a quick Shacharis before Shkiah, or a father kvetching about going to Minyan, or getting Goyim to be Mechalel Shabbos for unnecessary situations, etc.
It is obvious that everything and especially Chinuch needs Siyatah Dishmayah. Let us hope that G-d does not inflict us with too much “Tzaar Gidul Bonim”.
This Op-Ed reflects the views of its author. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CrownHeights.info nor of its Editors.
A reader that wishes to make his or her voice heard on any topic of their desire is welcome to submit his or her Op-Ed to News@CrownHeights.info.
no name
why dont you put a name? this can be writen by some kid. i would read it if the name meant something to me,
Elki
I don’t know who you are and my comments are obviously on what you wrote, since I never saw your talmidim or you in action.
1. I, too, have been in chinuch – close to 30 years in BY type girls high school – teacher, mechaneches and principal.
So I feel I have the right to give my opinion. Not signing your name is hypocritical. Yes, I know, you gave your email address — that’s still cowardly. Who are you afraid of? If you believe you’re right, stand behind your words.
2. “yeridas ha’doros??” Shmuel b’doro c’Moshe b’doro. An educator has to educate the students in the here and now and not compare them to past ideals.
3. “No gratification [and minimum pay]. Unfortunately the second statement is all too true. However, a mechanech who has no gratification from his privileged job should run out of the chinuch business.
4. Lastly, yes,frequently parents blame principals and teachers unfairly. But a principal shouldn’t be a partner in the blame game. The story is about the student – not which adult caused the problem. As mechanchim/os we must be solution oriented to effect any change. The students often get lost in the arguments between their parents and the hanhalah.
I don’t mean to offend and it’s certainly not personal, but as an educator myself who feels tremendously gratified in her career, I feel that I must speak up in the voice of the students.
not compare them to a past ideal.
3. Your #5. A principal has to be honest but we all know, there are ways and there are ways of giving a truthful report.
Honest but not punitive or dismissive.
3.
Dovelle
I’m parent, but I agree with what you said.
Its about time the Yeshivas stood up for themselves and answered all the bashing that they receive.
Parents have a lot of work to do. Not everything is the Yeshiva’s fault. And you can tell which families invest more energies into their children.
Gabi
Your letter is endearing. It’s good to see that you believe in it.
To be honest, I was in Yeshiva ten years ago. It may have not have been as bad as today, but we had the same issues mentioned in the mothers article. Guess what? The internet looked much different back then! No blaming the internet for that! So, we gotta look elsewhere for the blame.
There are of course two partners in raising a child:
1. The home (parents and family)
2. The school
Let’s face it. Most parents try their best. Many do not succeed. We’d love to complain to the parents and teach them how to do it better, but there’s not parent union. Many parents do not know how to bring up a frum child. Some of them due to not having been brought up frum themselves, while others have a difficulty drawing the line in the gray area between Kodesh and Chol. To be too strict or too lenient can both be dangerous. It may be worthwhile to create classes for parents, but at the end of the day parents are not professionals.
So, whether they like it or not – the schools gotta do something!
Have you ever asked a bochur in Yeshiva what he learned that day? Have you ever asked him what he gained from his learning?
Most kids cannot answer that question. So how can a kid be happy and succeed in Yeshiva if he doesn’t even know what he is learning?
Learning a maamar or a blatt gemorroh is great! However, the teacher needs to emphasize how the mamamar applies to the bochur. Otherwise there’s no gain.
Hanolos need to take a page out of the playbook of the goyishe schools. Kids want to feel that they gained from Yeshiva. There needs to be a lesson plan, a semester plan, a class plan, a grade plan and a school plan. The furthest we get is to the lesson plan. Aside from the gemorroh and sefer hamaamorim there are no school books. They need to be created.
Children need to see love and care from the hanholoh. Catching them out when their wrong and praising them to the high heavens when they’re right. Oh, it would also be nice for parents to see report cards.
The member of hanholo is right! We are not in the 19th century! We are in the 21st. We can’t change that! We can however change the way we respond to the kids via educating them with love, care and showing them that they have a purpose.
P.S. As the member of Hanholo did not leave his name (an email address is not a name), neither will I.
Anonymous
to no name:
We have a strict policy in place regarding Op-Ed’s, even those sent in anonymously we require the author inform us who he is, and we may publish the piece without a name.
This is done in order to prevent the type of abuse you mention. The above written Op-Ed is in fact written by a member of Hanhalah.
Binyomin Lifshitz
yanky
so true, parents must take an active role in raising their children
okay
Nice letter,
I’ve seen many nice letters like the one above.
The school sends them out requesting that the rules stated and spelled out be followed and truthfully they look good on paper. It takes both sides to make things work and both sides are human and make mistakes.
To those who answered and stated that the main objective is the student – great answer and yes, you are correct.
It should be all about the student.
Overworked and under paid teachers and parents and lack of communication on both sides doesn’t help the main objective the student/child.
As a parent and an educator I’ve seen both sides of the picture.
It is easy to become disolutioned in both ways: As a parent that sees that in some places that the child is not the objective but that the administration will is first and foremost not the child.
As a teacher the politics that fills the yeshiva and runs it and the little world it lives in.
You , the writer of the article may mean well and may mean to run a tight and fair ship but other captains may not have your moral and ethical codes and follow.
You expect respect in every case for teachers, where there is no mutual respect. Yes, students should ideally respect , but, when politics enters into a classroom and a student is treated unfairly because of it, they lose respect for the eduacator and staff and find it hard to follow or respect that which is coming from the teacher.
When a child comes home and we know as parents that life is not fair – how do explain to your child that what the principals child or other educators children get away with is allowed and they are not… that nepostism is alive and well and when you lose your job because the shliachs relative is coming and in and he needs it for himself or his wife… Listen this is the way it goes and to try and sugar coat isn’t going to change things.
Yes, parents do need to share the reponsibility, but, so do you and for every educator that comes into the field their more that are doing it for the paycheck and without proper training and aren’t happy doing what they do , they leave many students angry, upset,and unsure of themselves. You can’t ignore that not everyone in the educational system should be educating children.
Job
You sound like you hate your Job….. V’dal.
will the reall Hanhala pls stand up
You write “As opposed to the previous Op-Ed which is a unsigned Pashkvil”. What is this if not a pashkvil? You are hiding behind some gmail address and won’t publish your name either. Anyone can make a gmail address. Don’t make yourself the holy one here.
Mendy
Please forgive me but in my opinion some of the comments & the general nuances expressed in the op-ed illustrate a mentatlity and attitude which is completly OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY I mean just to come out with a statement such as & I quote “ Due to financial difficulties (we aren’t talking about a lack of bread on the table, we are talking about not having enough to go on vacation or any other extras)” proves just how out of touch I mean. Parents especialy ones with large families (accounting for most of the parents who are sending their kids to the above refered yeshivos) are in the most part in very dire financial circumstances and contrary to your assertions are actualy chasing their own tail & in some cases borrowing money regularly for FOOD including & in some cases even the ones earning a half decent income. The reason why so many kids are falling through the cracks these days is very simply because there are no clearly defined alternate routes a bochur could take in terms of his development & education other then the antiqueated system that is currently in place.
Not all children are natrual “Lamdonim” however lots have other tremendous “Chushim” not necessarily in Limudei Kodesh areas which would make them shine. Unfortunantly we live in a society that scorns both parents & children who would choose to focus on the individual child’s “Chushim” by enrolling them in the apropriate schools & or educational facilities in their very own town or city where close attention can be paid to the child’s progress by the parents. Yet everyone is completly bewildered when young couples today get married(or even the couples who are today married in excess of 10yrs) and have no means or even the potential or any qualifications with which to support themselves.
I am in a hurry @ the moment and find it difficult to elaborate any further on what I feel are far from Dvorim Betailim & in fact I am highlighting a feeling which is more and more prevelant amongst the Yungeleit today. Action must be taken by those in pivotal authoritive & educational roles within our community to address areas of concern not only those which immediatly affect us but also and especialy those which will affect our children’s future.
The author of the op-ed is perfectly welcome to contact me @ mgj333@yahoo.com if he would like to discuss the matter further.
am
Think, how many Vocational schools were there in Lubavitch…
Boruch N. Niissim HaKohaine Hoffinger
BS”D
Informative and honest piece.
To: ‘Elki wrote’
Stop writing PASHKVILIM silly you!
Who is Elki anyway?
Calling the writer hypocritical and a coward is
hateful!
The writer left his email address and was frank and open. Where’s yours!
You probably won’t listen to this email.
GALUS!
You were a principal? Where?
In your dreams, probably.
bhoffinger@aol.com
AD MOSAI
from your long writnigs i can understend that we have no hope.
but to make it a bit harder for you to justify yourself.
i will write a few words.a perent could be a person but a teacher have to be a chasidisher youngerman.
chas vesholom you would not eat from a shoichet that not going in to the water before davening. but a techer should not even enter a building that is a moisad chinuch before going in to the water and tvila is habitul.
if the day starts with a chsidishe hanhogo chasidishe derech the students see the emes.if teaching is a job for you. get far away from there. a melamed is one that is the all being of the person is a melamed. the way he davens in shul is a melamed. the kedusha saying in shul is a melamed etc etc …
the yeridas hdoros is not the kids . internet ???
did you try to record your shiur online so the kid has the opertunity to listen to parts of it in his house on the internet ? the goverment gave all the moisdos enough money to impliment all this technology what YOU the hanholos do with the money ???? as thy say in israel KASTACH.
and last i will tel you that .
in our world to day and allways to be a perent you do not need a license. but to be a TEACHER you need a license
......
1) your constructive advise at the end is appreciated and I hope all parents will take it serriously (I know I will: While I hope my kids see the enregy and happiness I put into doing mitzvos I plan on emphasizing that more).
2) Your comparison to a private family business is a farce. Nepotism is a destructive force in any orginazation. In coproate America it is prohibited in any insitution that is worth its salt. In a private “family” biz it is up to the principal to make those decisions and if he/she wants to bring in a family member that’s their right (sometimes helping your kid provide for their family offsets somewhat not having the best person do the job). As a menahel you do not have that right. You are dealing with momon hekodesh and are a public servent. You should be respected at least as much as a cop (after all you are providing security to the spiritual side) but do not have the right to use momon hekdish innappropriatly. I will not get into the bias inheerent in this but you should look in the mirror and contemplate if what you told parents about them having a rosy image of their children applies to you.
3) I think the blame should be shared here. Parents need to understand that melamdim are dedicated and the default should be that the teacher is right unless it is something the parent feels is trully destructive and should then have a conversation with the teacher. Teachers and manahlim should realize the system is far from perfect, take responsibility for that, and try to improve.
4) Teachers should always be honest no matter how great the cost and how difficult the parent is.
To am
B“H Rabbi Kaplan opened a SUCCESSFUL vocational school here in Crown Heights. It just finished its first year and did very well. It’s time to forget about these Roshei Yeshivos and the rest of these ”Destroyers” and move along and do things that are positive for our children.
to the chishuve author
I don’t believe your illustration of “meetings” with hanholos and Eltere Bochurim for one second. Even if they do exist in your Yeshivah, no one in the world will have me convinced that in the Yeshivas that I attended they indeed happened. Hanholos DON’T care about the Bochurim while their in Yeshivah. An average good Bochur who’s just doing what he’s supposed to be gets NO positive attention AT ALL!Suddenly when he begins to slip and fall everyone’s running after him, but it’s sadly too late!
Frustrated with the system
Currently my son is in an out of town yeshiva and not thriving. And contrary to what the author of this Op Ed, Hanhala, writes, I have not gotten 1 phone call from my son’s hanhala; only when I called them! I can only think of 2 years in his entire yeshiva career so far that he was happy and did well. That is when he had a phenomenal Rebbe who really cared about every student in the class and showed it! He has told me repeatedly this year that the rebbeim and hanhalo don’t care about them. I know for a fact that he happens to be right as I have spoken to them on many occasions and feel the same thing.(And no, I have not expreessed this to my son). I have been asking around where there is a mesivta in Lubavitch where the rebbeim/hanhalo DO care about the talmidim. I have been told straight out that it does NOT exist.I’ll just have to put up with what he has. So he’ll just bide out his time until he finishes mesivta and then you can just add him to the numbers of other Lubavitch bochurim who don’t care about chassidishkeit!
A concerned parent
I am very disheartened by your “response” and I hope I can sit down and write you an email while still maintaining decorum and the proper respect in which I would want someone to speak to me.
In the meantime, all I can say is that I pray to G-d that my boys NEVER have you as a menahel or educator b/c you are so far from reality and so quick to judge. It’s so clear that your philosophies and thought process are unprofessional and twisted. You have definitely clarified what the original op-ed wrote – YOU AND THOSE WITH YOUR MENTALITY ARE DESTROYERS.
Z-eiv
BS“D
Agree with most points, especially talking positive about a teacher and keeping the house atmosphere holy.
Disagree about working for vacation. I haven’t had a vacation since I got married many years ago. Growing a family, ka”h requires much money. My wife has to be home with the little ones and dedicate herself to them, instead of going to work. My paycheck is a few hundred dollars shorter than our basic budget. So the debt is growing by thousands upon thousands every year with no end in sight. And I have 2 jobs.
So I find it a bit insulting that yeshiveis assume that we, parents, are walking moneys bags, and can be shaken and shaken for more.
Fundraise.
But bottom line, it is we, parents, who have the responsibility to raise and educate the child, not the yeshiveis, so let’s not forget that we need them more than they need us.
Moshiach Now!
Z’eiv
reallywrites
thsi artice is so nice on paper
but find me one place that actually has theese meetings and documents them and impliments them
the simple statemnet he makes is it is NOT ME it is the parents because we dont do homework because we teach our kids not to respect the teachers
but if you did half of what you claimed you would be producing diamonds and all the bochurim would be accepted anywhere they go
please write a realistic article
and write the facts as to what happens and not what fantasy you want to happen
a parent
i have just one question to the author
what is your reposibilty to a bochur you accepted hat want to leave to another yeshiva or your program is over ?
is it you are done now you are on your own i write my reports to where you want to go and i am done
Parent
“Obviously if the Bochur isn’t so great and the parents have money for anything but their children’s education – there is no reason to go out of the way and accept the Bochur unless they pay full tuition.” Not that Obvious – Any bocher that tries hard to learn and is respectful should not have to be “great” to be accepted dispite the parent’s wrongdoing.
“Hanhala had to contact the parents to request they switch to Kosher cell phones most parents didn’t comply”. If most of the parent’s want something maybe you should comply?
In any case 2 solutions: a) Use marks and come out with a digree 2)All hanhola should have email like yourself to promote beter comunication and Ideas. Maybe text the bochurim reminders and they can text Hanhola requests or shailos.
Thank You. Keep up the good work.
Yshivas Hands
Although it appears the author is well meaning, and sincere, i have to agree with Mendy, that he is out of touch, on many levels, starting with parents ability to pay for all things they desire, an their unwillingness to pay for tuition,does he not realise that parents with just 5 kids in Yeshivos are paying 50.000 a year?, that is more then half most average peoples salary, but that was not even the issue the op ed “Destroyer” was about, that is a subject worthy on its own
In my opinion one of the issues with which the yeshivas must take blame for is this: certainly we cannot expect the yeshivos to take in every child regardless of their spirituel standing, just beacause the bochur want to,or his parents want him to be there, even in this area is worthy should could be debated, how far we must go, and i am sure we dont go far enought to lift these children from their current Matzav, wasent this the Rebbes hallmark/ mission every jewish child should be afforded a Jewish education, al achas kama vekama his children his chasidim, that need a little lifting, but our problems are far greater, because in recent years yeshivas have adopted a new definition of who they except “METZUYANIM” this is clearly in my view the fault that should be placed squarly in the yeshival lap, it is these non “metzuyanim” (it makes me sick to think how many boys like this are being affected by this non mezuyanim Rejection, and who knows how deeply it effects them, that is if they get in to another yeshiva because the knew someone, what about all those boys who dont make it in to another yeshiva, and remaine home doing nothing and wherever else that leads to “Vehabor reik ein bo Mayim……
These bochurim (Non metzuyanim, are they not worth our effort our kochos?, should they be written of too,
?
from a parent who spends 30 minutes for kids chinuch, and feels very let down from elites standard the yeshivas have adopted,
I have to say on e yeshiva that i have been watching that i think has it right for the most part, and i think credit should be given to them, they would like to except only very good bochurim as well,(makes their job a lot easier all the have to do is baby sit,answer a few shallos, but i think they realise their responsibilty in running a Lubavitcher Yeshiva runs far deeper, and they would except a smaller precentage of bochurim that are not Metzuyanim, and work with them, give them a chance to be in a good seviva, with the majority of Chasidisher bochurim,is the Yeshiva in New Haven
Much more should be said on the subject, but i do work for a living i took the time to write because it hurts.
yossele
time to start home schooling
Anon
To the nonbeliever above: This is a realistic article, you don’t believe it, that’s unfortunate.
a shliach
As I read the article, I really couldn’t believe my eyes
Some of the facts that shocked and amazed me
1) boys that are not ‘the greatest’ should have to pay more (‘full price’)
2) nepotism is good. (for a small one man operation maybe, but for a community institution like a yeshiva, it stifles any fresh opinions or dissent)
3) the parents are all loaded with money and want to use the money on vacations- get real man!, u seen what people are paying in tuition these days?
4) the parents don’t care
5) the hanholla are too cowardly to tell the parents the real situation
6) all problems are from the parents (how many tens? hundreds? of kids were ruined by yeshivas with the arrogant attitudes being espoused here)
7) this is not a pashkvil, couse u have a Gmail
8) sounds like the writer loves his job
9) im not signing my name, cause honest disagreement may not be taken to well, and my kid may get kicked out, or not let in
on target
great article! so true! if you dont agree, consider yourself one of the 5%, and please dont get offended.
Sara
“At no time does the Gashmiyus’dike department have a say in a matter whether to accept the Bochur or not.”
But they (the gamshmius’dike department) do have a say when it comes to threatening you about sending your son on shlichus!
I have 6 children ka“h in 6 different schools (we are shluchim on a salary), each school claims ”why should we be the one to give you a discount“? so none of them will give us a break. So together they empty out our bank account each week and leave us nothing to live on (and I AM talking about lack of bread on the table and I am not talking about vacations).
One of these schools who withdraws each week $100. called us recently and told us ”that we need to do better,its not fast enough“ and ”we should keep in mind that its the time of year when the school chooses which boys will go on shlichus”. enough said!
Zalman New Haven
To Yshivas Hands
Yeah New Haven! Thanks for the plug!
Magashbeis
From the Op-Ed writer
Elki wrote: “No gratification [and minimum pay]. Unfortunately the second statement is all too true. However, a mechanech who has no gratification from his privileged job should run out of the chinuch business . . . Your #5. A principal has to be honest but we all know, there are ways and there are ways of giving a truthful report. Honest but not punitive or dismissive.”
I am referring to Chinuch being a job in which no appreciation is shown by the parents to the teachers who strive to educate the children.
===
Gabi wrote: “Let’s face it. Most parents try their best. Many do not succeed. We’d love to complain to the parents and teach them how to do it better, but there’s not parent union. Many parents do not know how to bring up a frum child. Some of them due to not having been brought up frum themselves, while others have a difficulty drawing the line in the gray area between Kodesh and Chol. To be too strict or too lenient can both be dangerous. It may be worthwhile to create classes for parents, but at the end of the day parents are not professionals.”
Where I grew up there was a community school (non-lubavitch) and the principal who was a “Litvak” had sessions twice a week for parents, he claimed that if the parents are educated then the school’s job is much easier. This was extremely successful and it bore fruits.
Gabi wrote: “Have you ever asked a bochur in Yeshiva what he learned that day? Have you ever asked him what he gained from his learning? Most kids cannot answer that question. So how can a kid be happy and succeed in Yeshiva if he doesn’t even know what he is learning? Learning a maamar or a blatt gemorroh is great! However, the teacher needs to emphasize how the mamamar applies to the bochur. Otherwise there’s no gain.”
This is true, albeit, Hanhalas do approach Bochurim with such questions, and try to work with the Bochur. Teachers do this too, and try to approach the Gemara in a more practical level. When I taught I would dedicate once a week to give a “open-session” in which I would discuss with the Bochurim different aspects of Hashkafa and the connection to the Gemara. It seemed to work.
Gabi wrote: “Children need to see love and care from the hanholoh. Catching them out when their wrong and praising them to the high heavens when they’re right. Oh, it would also be nice for parents to see report cards. The member of hanholo is right! We are not in the 19th century! We are in the 21st. We can’t change that! We can however change the way we respond to the kids via educating them with love, care and showing them that they have a purpose.”
True. I hope everyone follows this approach, and I am sure that it will bear fruits. I still remember the excitement I had as a child when my teacher told my father in front of me that I learn like one of the Acharonim… I definitely learned much better the upcoming week…
Gabi wrote: “P.S. As the member of Hanholo did not leave his name (an email address is not a name), neither will I.”
I identified myself to all those who contacted me.
===
okay wrote: “When a child comes home and we know as parents that life is not fair – how do explain to your child that what the principals child or other educators children get away with is allowed and they are not … Yes, parents do need to share the reponsibility, but, so do you and for every educator that comes into the field their more that are doing it for the paycheck and without proper training and aren’t happy doing what they do , they leave many students angry, upset,and unsure of themselves. You can’t ignore that not everyone in the educational system should be educating children.”
It’s wrong, and I am not claiming that every teacher is perfect and every parent is terrible. There are exceptions to the rule, but I don’t recall ever being punished for something and the principal’s kid went unpunished. The opposite is quite true, I recall a conversation I had with a fellow classmate who was the son of the principal and he told me that whenever he gets punished he tries to go to the assistant principal because he knows his parent will punish him more “to show that the son isn’t different”. I have seen this repeat itself in various scenarios and in various places.
From the Op-Ed writer (Part 2)
Mendy wrote: “Please forgive me but in my opinion some of the comments & the general nuances expressed in the op-ed illustrate a mentatlity and attitude which is completly OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY I mean just to come out with a statement such as & I quote “Due to financial difficulties (we aren’t talking about a lack of bread on the table, we are talking about not having enough to go on vacation or any other extras)” proves just how out of touch I mean. Parents especialy ones with large families (accounting for most of the parents who are sending their kids to the above refered yeshivos) are in the most part in very dire financial circumstances and contrary to your assertions are actualy chasing their own tail & in some cases borrowing money regularly for FOOD including & in some cases even the ones earning a half decent income.”
Go to a financial advisor and he will tell you what to do. My parents’ home still doesn’t have AC. My father doesn’t have a cell phone or a car, and Thank G-d I don’t think he ever had a problem, even though he makes far less than the average New Yorker.
Mendy wrote: “The reason why so many kids are falling through the cracks these days is very simply because there are no clearly defined alternate routes a bochur could take in terms of his development & education other then the antiqueated system that is currently in place. Not all children are natrual “Lamdonim” however lots have other tremendous “Chushim” not necessarily in Limudei Kodesh areas which would make them shine. Unfortunantly we live in a society that scorns both parents & children who would choose to focus on the individual child’s “Chushim” by enrolling them in the apropriate schools & or educational facilities in their very own town or city where close attention can be paid to the child’s progress by the parents. Yet everyone is completly bewildered when young couples today get married(or even the couples who are today married in excess of 10yrs) and have no means or even the potential or any qualifications with which to support themselves.”
I will not get into the discussion of those that don’t believe in “Chinuch Al Taharas HaKoidesh”. It is absolutely ludicrous to claim that the problem today is that all Bochurim learn Limmudei Kodesh and don’t get a secular education. Your statements show exactly what the problem is. Halevai every child would grow up in a Taharas HaKoidesh fashion and not be subject to parents who believe that he should get a secular education.
===
…… wrote: “Your comparison to a private family business is a farce. Nepotism is a destructive force in any orginazation. In coproate America it is prohibited in any insitution that is worth its salt. In a private “family” biz it is up to the principal to make those decisions and if he/she wants to bring in a family member that’s their right (sometimes helping your kid provide for their family offsets somewhat not having the best person do the job). As a menahel you do not have that right. You are dealing with momon hekodesh and are a public servent. You should be respected at least as much as a cop (after all you are providing security to the spiritual side) but do not have the right to use momon hekdish innappropriatly. I will not get into the bias inheerent in this but you should look in the mirror and contemplate if what you told parents about them having a rosy image of their children applies to you.”
I actually am not from a Gezhe Family. I have no connections whatsoever to any of the principals in the Yeshivos I worked in. I was never fired because someone connected had to do the job. On the contrary, I saw people who are connected not getting a job because they weren’t so qualified.
…… wrote: “I think the blame should be shared here. Parents need to understand that melamdim are dedicated and the default should be that the teacher is right unless it is something the parent feels is trully destructive and should then have a conversation with the teacher. Teachers and manahlim should realize the system is far from perfect, take responsibility for that, and try to improve.”
Let’s do it together for the sake of everyone. Let each person take full responsibility for what he is responsible for. A parent is obligated Al-Pi-Torah to educate their children, they may give over the obligation partially to someone else, but in no way, shape or form does this dismiss the parents from the responsibility.
…… wrote: “Teachers should always be honest no matter how great the cost and how difficult the parent is.”
I wish I would be able to do that.
From the Op-Ed writer (Part 3)
to the chishuve author wrote: “I don’t believe your illustration of “meetings” with hanholos and Eltere Bochurim for one second. Even if they do exist in your Yeshivah, no one in the world will have me convinced that in the Yeshivas that I attended they indeed happened. Hanholos DON’T care about the Bochurim while their in Yeshivah. An average good Bochur who’s just doing what he’s supposed to be gets NO positive attention AT ALL!Suddenly when he begins to slip and fall everyone’s running after him, but it’s sadly too late!”
Frustrated with the system wrote: “I have been asking around where there is a mesivta in Lubavitch where the rebbeim/hanhalo DO care about the talmidim. I have been told straight out that it does NOT exist.I’ll just have to put up with what he has. So he’ll just bide out his time until he finishes mesivta and then you can just add him to the numbers of other Lubavitch bochurim who don’t care about chassidishkeit!”
reallywrites wrote: “but find me one place that actually has theese meetings and documents them and impliments them the simple statemnet he makes is it is NOT ME it is the parents because we dont do homework because we teach our kids not to respect the teachers but if you did half of what you claimed you would be producing diamonds and all the bochurim would be accepted anywhere they go “
I don’t want to name Yeshivos here, but in North America I am aware of -at least- four “good” mesivtas, three “good” zals, and four “high-schools / vocational / special-ed” institutions which have these scheduled meetings.
Last year I recall sitting at one of the scheduled meetings from 10pm to 3:30am with all staff present due to a situation which arose during the past two weeks and required extra time. Otherwise, the meetings would take around 2 hours.
===
Frustrated with the system wrote: “contrary to what the author of this Op Ed, Hanhala, writes, I have not gotten 1 phone call from my son’s hanhala; only when I called them!”
Maybe you should call the teachers every two weeks? The teachers respond to the parents when the parents call. Don’t wait for someone else to do your job. Call and you will get the information.
===
a parent wrote: “what is your reposibilty to a bochur you accepted hat want to leave to another yeshiva or your program is over ? is it you are done now you are on your own i write my reports to where you want to go and i am done”
A Hanhala is responsible for a Bochur until he reaches the next Yeshiva. Unless the Bochur himself (or his parents) want to continue having a Kesher with the previous Hanhalas.
===
Yshivas Hands wrote: “…in this area is worthy should could be debated, how far we must go, and i am sure we dont go far enought to lift these children from their current Matzav, wasent this the Rebbes hallmark/ mission every jewish child should be afforded a Jewish education, al achas kama vekama his children his chasidim, that need a little lifting, but our problems are far greater, because in recent years yeshivas have adopted a new definition of who they except “METZUYANIM” this is clearly in my view the fault that should be placed squarly in the yeshival lap, it is these non “metzuyanim” (it makes me sick to think how many boys like this are being affected by this non mezuyanim Rejection, and who knows how deeply it effects them, that is if they get in to another yeshiva because the knew someone, what about all those boys who dont make it in to another yeshiva, and remaine home doing nothing and wherever else that leads to “Vehabor reik ein bo Mayim……”
No yeshiva will take only “Metzuyonim”. Don’t be fooled. Every yeshiva is looking for Bochurim that fit into their Yeshiva. If a Bochur is “shvach” in learning he can come into any Yeshiva as long as he is interested in learning and is a Chassidishe Bochur. When the Bochur has been a “Bor Reik” since he was a child – he will have a hard time getting into any Yeshiva. It all boils down to whether the Bochur shows an interest in succeeding.
Yosef
As a parent and a former mesivta and girls HS teacher:
The problem is
A. People become parents with no hadrachah on how to be parents. Rabbonim and askonim need to give workshops in raising kids. Instead of baby presents people should give books on how to raise Jewish kids.
B. Teachers and menahalim have no training, other than on the job. And no, the one day seminars are cute, but cannot replace serious training. True we cannot afford it, but that still doesn’t mean we will have good mechanchim.
C. Homes that are clearly dysfunctional go on to producing 8-10 kids. Some people need to be advised to hold off to see weather they can actually effectively raise those kids.
Sad but true; I agree with the Op-Ed.
B“H
Bill Gates recently gave a speech to High School students about 11 things they did not and will not learn in school. He talks about how feel-good, politically correct teachings have created a generation of kids with no concept of reality and how this concept set them up for failure in the real world.
[I was going to adapt this one for the frum, but I see that, nowadays, most if not all of this applies even to the ways that too many of us frumsters are raising our kids, R”L!]
Rule 1: Life is not fair – get used to it!
Rule 2 : The world won’t care about your self-esteem. The world will expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.
Rule 3 : You will NOT make $60,000 a year right out of high school. You won’t be a vice-president with a car phone until you earn both.
Rule 4 : If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a boss.
Rule 5 : Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your Grandparents had a different word for burger flipping: they called it opportunity.
Rule 6: If you mess up, it’s not your parents’ fault, so don’t whine about your mistakes, learn from them.
Rule 7: Before you were born, your parents weren’t as boring as they are now. They got that way from paying your bills, cleaning your clothes and listening to you talk about how cool you thought you were. So before you save the rain forest from the parasites of your parent’s generation, try delousing the closet in your own room.
Rule 8: Your school may have done away with winners and losers, but life HAS NOT. In some schools, they have abolished failing grades and they’ll give you as MANY TIMES as you want to get the right answer. This doesn’t bear the slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life.
Rule 9: Life is not divided into semesters. You don’t get summers off and very few employers are interested in helping you FIND YOURSELF. Do that on your own time.
Rule 10: Television is NOT real life. In real life people actually have to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs.
Rule 10: Be nice to nerds. Chances are you’ll end up working for one.
Rule 11: Sometimes it’s ALL about WHO YOU KNOW!!! and if it works for you Great… if not… oh, well… back to Life is not always fair.
SPENDING HALF AN HOUR THINKING ABOUT YOUR KIDS MEANS THINKING ABOUT WHAT KIND OF DUGMA CHAYA YOU ARE BEING!!!!!
Thank you!
Anon
Member of hanhola,
If you were truly that involved, and had that many meetings to attend to, and presumably have a family then you would not have the time to write such a long article! At least I wouldn’t and I don’t have half the amount of meetings you do!
AN ANTI-CINICALIST
truth be told!
“YERIDAS HADOROS” IS A SIGN OF GEULA’S IMMINENTS!
ACT IN A WAY YOU WILL BE PROUD OF AND NOT REGRET WHEN MOSHIACH ACTUALLY POPS UP!
Yesihvas hands
To: Op-Ed writer (Part 3) wrote:
once again you are copmpletely out of touch with what is going on when you say “no Yeshiva excepts only ”Metzuyanim”
Just to name a few Yeshiva in Staten Island clearly states this to parents wanting to send their kids there.Yeshiva in Miami the same, while many others dont say it, they have the same practices, so i am not sure under which tree you are hiding
Concerned Member of Anash
Oy.
While the author brings up some excellent and valid points on Chinuch, the feeling that I have from reading his article is that he is young and has not yet raised children to adulthood.
I may be wrong, but there is a certain smugness and condescending attitude that comes through.
The reality is, that raising children is difficult and most parent are very bogged down. Everyone has different kochos and challenges: background, health, parnassah, etc.
A child who is challenged when it comes to focusing and having zitz fleish used to make it through school, and he wouldnt become a talmid chochom. Today, that very same child is at risk of losing his very yiddishkeit.
We are losing too many. And many more boys than girls. Essentially, chinuch is no longer seen as a community concern, but a private one. This, I believe is an American ideal that has nothing to do with Yiddishkeit.
We as a community are all responsible for one another.
It seems to me that Chassidim need a new Baal Shem Tov to stop the new elitism that has crept into Lubavitch, and a new Sarah Schnirer, but this time for the boys, to save a system, that ultimately is not working for this generation.
Ess L’assoss L’Hashem.
bocher-s mother
One of my sons has been told that he would be an excellent yeshiva rebbe and should go into chinuch. He does not like the way that yeshiva rebbes are treated and at this point won’t consider a job in chinuch.
Probably a large percentage of young people in Lubavitch are on Facebook and some are addicted to the internet and spend hours of their day on the internet. Many Lubavitch homes have internet and the kids are on it.
Parents who are modern Orthodox would have happier kids if they went to a more modern yeshiva rather than a chassidishe Lubavitch yeshiva with full-time limudei kodesh. Yeshivas rarely mekarev anyone.
Milhouse
To “Sad but true”: Sorry, sad and FALSE. Bill Gates never gave such a speech, and there’s nothing like this in any of his writing or speeches. The list comes from Charles J. Sykes. You’ve never heard of him? Don’t worry, neither had I, until just now. He’s a nobody who wrote a few books to make money.
http://www.snopes.com/langu…
been there
Member of Hanhala: I have a very important question for you. I find it commendable that you hold all these meetings to discuss what to do and how to do concerning your bochurim. Tell me, have you ever put your hand around a bochur and told him, “You’re doing great, keep up the good work!” A bochur that was not learning so well, or perhaps not behaving so well, have you ever looked for at least one positive quality that he has and complimented him on it? Have you ever stopped to consider that an encouraging smile or comment might make all your hours worth of meetings redundant??
You know, there are parents out there who do exactly what you recommend. They call teachers regularly, especially when their son is heading off to yeshiva for the first time. Especially when he’s grown up on shlichus and had to attend whatever school was available, and is now making his first foray into a strong Chabad system. They hear from their son that he doesn’t have a chavrusa. When a Rebbi is asked about this, the answer is, well these boys have known each other and we don’t want to forcibly break up a chavrusa. So the son is left with the weakest ones to choose from who also don’t have chavrusas (and remember, while he may have been top of his class in the school he went to, he is now no longer in that position). So you have 2 weak boys sitting together, each unable to help the other, so they talk about other things instead of learning. Teachers are called, promises are made, and before you know it, it’s yud shvat, and still nothing’s been done. The child at this point is totally disillusioned — obviously hanhala doesn’t care about him………why should he care?
Point 2: A bochur heads off to yeshiva. He has no internet in his house, no television, and no movies are watched. Yet he comes home knowing about all the latest movies out there! He can tell you where to find every internet cafe. He can tell you about all the scams that they can pull at different stores to buy DVD players and return them a few months later — after spending much time in the bathrooms with “stomache aches”.
Please don’t put the blame on the parents. In some cases you may be right. In many……you are not.
support our schools!
dear author
you are 1000% right, and maybe only Hashem sees it – dont defend yourself to every meshuganerwho can;t appreciate the crazy work yeshivas need to do because of the reasons you mention. anyone defensive here-especially those who clearly miss the point are obviously looking whom to cast the blame on for their failing children. the bottom line is that yeshivas are expected to magically produce tzadikim- despite the poison many boys are under, lack of funds, lack of support and impossible parents who are scared of their children.
Oy!
With all this pontificating and whining, and even without it, a few things are abundantly clear:
1. There are many incredible unsung heroes in teaching. There are also many teachers out there LITERALLY destroying kids. I counsel those kids and trust me, destroy is the correct word here.
2. More than 50% of kids today will tell you straight to your face “Nobody at my school cares about me.” Many kids actually feel the school/teacher is out to get them. Don’t take my word for it: ask them yourself.
3. Parents are more lost than ever before. Consistent parenting training MANDATED BY EVERY SCHOOL can alleviate some of the more benign mistakes that parents are making. You know how the school demands the monthly tuition check or our kids are out on their ear? Demand a monthly attendance at a parenting class.
4. Most parents you speak to will say this about their kids yeshiva hanhala: “There’s nobody to talk to.” Oh yeah, there’s a person warming a seat, but as parents I think most of us feel that when we walk in to your office you are thinking “What do I have to do to get this nudnik out of here?” We know you are busy and do a million things a day, but you do have a way of making us feel like dirt.
5. Some kids are just more resilient than others and there is no accounting for this in our school system. Everyone is expected to function exactly the same, on some standard invented by “someone, somewhere” and there is a percentage of kids that won’t make it like that. I am not talking about special needs children who would benefit from a special program. Just regular kids, who need a little extra warmth and attention SPECIFICALLY AT SCHOOL, a good word a little more often, who, when they don’t get it, sometimes grow up to write really nasty blogs and articles about frum people, yeshivas, principals, etc.
6.Everybody is enjoying the blame game. And the ones who suffer the most from that are our kids.
Here’s wishing all parents great insight and energy to meet their children’s needs, all Yeshiva hanhalos and mechanchim open mindedness and true love of children and chinuch and all klal yisroel siyata d’shmaya in raising Dor Moshiach.
Gabi
To Op-ed writer:
From your later comments it seems that you are obviously trying your best.
However, it should not only be the teacher’s job to create an atmosphere. It should not be each teacher to his own. The hanholo needs to create an organized plan and curriculum for each class and for the whole school. Teachers don’t have the time, nor do many teachers have the capabilities to create a plan. This does not mean that they are bad teachers, it just means that planning an amazing lesson plan is not one of their strengths. Schools need to gather the teachers who do have those strengths and get them to create a curriculum and plan.
Just a point...
If some of the Hanhola and their children didn’t have some of the largest recently renovated homes in town, then maybe your statements on nepotism would make sense…
Desperate
to am
Yes Rabbi Kaplan opened an amazing yeshiva. . but its only for Crownheighters. . being that there is no dorm, we, from abroad, cannot send our sons there, because where would they be after hours. . where would they sleep, who would keep an eye on them??? it would defeat the whole purpose . .
I personally would do ANYTHING to send my son to a yeshiva like R’Kaplans. . he cant learn all day, but hes a good boy who wants to learn a vocation too. . but our hands are tied. . there is NOTHING for the out of towners who are solid , decent boys, who like mentioned earlier, are just not able to sit and learn the whole day long. So what do people like ourselves do . . and believe me, there are SO MANY such boys out there,. . and thats where the trouble all begins. .
CAN ANYONE HELP US?????????????
to Just a point
How true. If we would weed out those that are in the educational system just because they married the Rosh Yeshiva’s daughter, then we would have a chance.
a concerned Parent
I am tired of the Yeshiva system where the amazing students (5%) find a Yeshiva and the good kids that don’t attend the Mikvah constantly are being harrased and put down. I know of a girl in a Lubavitche School who is not Jewish and is accepted whereas nice Lubavitche boys are not.They wander the streets and get lost. I mostly agree with the article but what about the boy who’s parents are careful with the internet and are home on a daily basis for their kid,and have Yirah Shamaim,and the father does open a sefer and learn.What about those boys? Why are they given such a difficult time?We need you to love and care for our boys and make yidishkeit somewhat enjoyable,not boot camp
i dissagree
The yeshiva system ruin people’s lives. you know why you see so many failures,? because some of those schools don’t teach kids any “secular” subjects. i know so many people that lack confidence because of these messed up places. i wouldn’t send my kid to any lubobivitch school. your intentions maybe to help kids, but it’s messing up their lives.
esther
obviously there’s plenty of guilt,enough for both sides.we loved our daughter’s elementary school.we sent her to a lubavitch HS with a dorm about about an hour from our home. the principal ,is guess what , the “deans” son- in- law.i called every week or two but he never mentioned any major concerns.about 3 months into the school year the english principal,who had never called me before, left a message on my cell that “things are just not working out” and i “need to find another school”.and that was that.when i asked the dean why the school never let me know there were issues(BH not terrible problems),he answered“it probably wouldn’t have helped anyway”
Rabbi Levin
One of the answers might be to create an independant body, that will work in this area, to understand the issues involved in the Chinuch area, and explore constructive ways to address them. This body cannot be appointed by any specific school, only by the community and endorsed by the community leaders. Let’s get together and find the proper way to put this together, I beleive strongly in the Koach Hatzibbur, and a devoted group of dedicated people who understand these issues, can go a long way. Any further ideas on this, feel free to contact me.
concerned
Rabbi Levin:
appreciate your words and to the point, but you left no contact information.