55 Comments

• Menachem

  And we have rational Lubavitchers and zany mechihistens, too

• Tamar

  But we have one Rebbe MH who will get us out of the golus!

• david

  Good article, but your main point is about education – apart from darchei menachem, good education is missing in Crown Heights.

• A CALL TO ACTION

  My friend, you might mean well, but you mix up many issues together in one sandwich. Democratic rule and Torah rule do not necessarily go hand in hand. Depends in what issue. Certain things are not open for democratic choice. I agree that there must be an awakening on the part of the leading figures of the Rabbinic body, there is where the effort has to be. Let’s get together and demonstrate, go to the Rabbonim and demand from them to put an end to it, insist and not let go. Enough people are frustrated. If all of us would get together and approach the necessary people and not let off until they do something, this is the only way.
  With regard to the children, I disagree about teaching democratic rule. i feel that we must teach more Ahavas haTorah and respect for Lomdei Torah starting with Rabbonim.

• PABLO

  NOTHING WILL CHANGE!!

• Berl

  “The Rebbe certainly wanted democracy here in CH as is known to everybody.”

  Says who??? The Rebbe only agreed to elections for Rabbonim under great pressure from certain individuals in the community, and when Agu”ch failed to appoint a new Rov to replace R’ Zalman Shimon.

  The democratic process of electing Rabbonim was unheard of previously in Lubavitch and was definatley not initiated by the Rebbe.

  The real lack of education is that people are ignorant of history and are taught a distorted truth of what the Rebbe stood for and wanted.

• Berl

  “The Rebbe certainly wanted democracy here in CH as is known to everybody.”

  Says who??? The Rebbe only agreed to elections for Rabbonim under great pressure from certain individuals in the community, and when Agu”ch failed to appoint a new Rov to replace R’ Zalman Shimon.

  The democratic process of electing Rabbonim was unheard of previously in Lubavitch and was definatley not initiated by the Rebbe.

  The real lack of education is that people are ignorant of history and are taught a distorted truth of what the Rebbe stood for and wanted.

• Montreal Anash

  Democracy……

  We see how well it has taken hold in Russia – nepotism, corruption, mafia, etc

  Well, were does Chabad-Lubavitch come from? Perhaps this is why the Rebbe encouraged democratic processes in the community, because he could see where the community my head otherwise.

  Crown Heights take solace in that you are not alone in this fight. Here in Montreal, the same issues abound, only in the opposite direction, with no one taking responsiblity for anything and a community that is falling apart starting with the yeshiva and extending outward.

  But just like in Russia, individuals and families try to hold onto their diminishing piece of the pie turning community organizations and institutions into private fiefdoms.

  Democracy, yes, but to accomplish it, you may have to have a revolution first.

  Montreal Anash Member

• me myself and i

  ok you said “another rant from another frustrated CH member.”

  tried hard to “not taking sides” (thanks for that)

  but your idea means nothing…

  the elections are over, YOU WE let it happen. both the newly voted in and the old Vaad are not looking for democracy nor looking to make any change, and they are the only ones that could…
  funny now i understand why rabbi osdiba has said. Settle the argumant before the elections.

• But there is only one

  Mendy Hendel!

• a ch who hates arugments

  this artical realy hits home all our argument has rlly got to stop we r supposed to be role models 4 the world @large so what are they thinking if the can do it so can i since we are after all models to the jewish and non jewish communties we should have @ least some compromises there 2 oppinions so you abortaiate throu a 3rd party to work out ur problems we dont need to put our dirty lounddry outside 4 e/o to see gotta oproblem deal w/ it dont bring outsiders into this since they rlly get a kick out of this we are mature ppl thang god who can make our desion on our own

• tru jew

  if you want democracy in crown heights you need to get rid of sruli sandhose, yanki hertzog, chanina sperlin ect. who for years are trying to rule crown heights. who have time an time again couse machlokes regardles of who the rov is that is backing them.

• yankel

  Very well put. Halevai someone should take it seriously…
  If the reasoning in the article isn’t sobering, maybe the atatistics of what we, as Chassidim eim mishpocho went and ae going through in one short week will do it. Check on the Lubavitch news sites: how many ob“m? How many ”please say tehillim- here a Shliach, there two tiny babies, and some who wished to be anonymous and didn’t let their heartache public. One mekurov missing in a plane crash…accidents r”l/
  It is not nikro nikreis, it is a dire wake up call for all of us all over, but particularly in kan Tzivah, the apple of the Rebbe’s holy eye.
  May we all have seichel to what is needed to be done in an achdusdike and ahavadike way, and live what we learn, and be zoiche to Moshiach Now

• what?!?!!?

  Interesting perspective. Since when does democracy fit in with a heimishe community? Torah and Rabbanim = no democracy. Yiddishkeit is a theocracy not a democracy!!!

• klamke

  if you beleive in democracy, why are you afraid to leave your name. becuase you have a communist afarid of your own shadow. if i were to write a op ed, i would put my baitzim on the table. no matza balls. I believe what you wrote, but it would be far more efective if you signed your name. perhaps the first step in the right direction is to sign off on your op-ed.

• what-s the point of talking

  “Says who??? The Rebbe only agreed to elections for Rabbonim under great pressure from certain individuals in the community, and when Agu”ch failed to appoint a new Rov to replace R’ Zalman Shimon.”

  Are you kidding? Are you really saying the Rebbe, our Nasi, caved in to pressure? For that alone, Berl, you should be dropped from this site. You obviously never understood the Rebbe. IF THE REBBE WANTED ELECTIONS, THERE WERE ELECTIONS. IF THE REBBE DIDN’T WANT, THERE WOULD BE NONE.

  As for this article…yes, we all know there has to be change. We’re not THAT stupid! However, there will not be any change if 50% of the community has no say. So no matter if all your ideas eventually get through, there will never be democracy until the women can vote. WE LIVE HERE TOO! We have to put up with this garbage too! Many women go OUTSIDE CH for shailohs, sometimes to non-Lubavitchers! (at least they are treated with respect!)

  How can these Rabbonim be trusted to answer anything when they don’t show any Achdus & are destroying this community by their stubborness and need for kovod? They only know how to break not build. They should be guiding us but they are too busy fighting each other.

  Letting women vote…now that is change we can believe in.

• ezrimayhashem

  VERY WELL WRITTEN. However the comments so far are discouraging.

• achdus

  we need new elections for rabbonim except for osdobo and heller since they were there for many years and there were no (public) problems when they were there. since shvei got in there has been much machlokos. we need him ro run again together with the other new elected rabbonim. then we need new elections for vaad hakohol where you have people from both sides allowed to run and there should be no elections for gabaim as the rebbe did not want elections. zev katz should close the rebbes room and move downstairs and daven with achdus with the rest of ch and he should be the gabai just as it was before gimmel tammuz!!

• two sides

  He forgot to mention Hatzalah

• convict

  Something HAS to change!!!

  starting with this author….

  “We have two groups (shomrim, shmira) who are “ensuring” that we are safe, meanwhile ensuring that the other group sits in jail.”

  The author makes an uninformed statement implying that the messira happening, is happening both ways, the messira is happening ONLY one way. As someone who was massered on, arrested, and awaiting trial DUE TO THE MESSIRA BY SHMIRA (their names are written all over the court documents) and having seen all the police reports MADE BY SHMIRA againts almost every single member of shomrim I would like to know where this author (who obviously wanted to have his op-ed made public) got his information i.e. who did he call/talk to/interview? did he ask anyone for documents proving which way the messira is flowing? obviously not, so let this author look in the mirror and judge himself before placing an op-ed where a lot of uninformed people will read it and misunderstand the situation.

• happy

  time to have a 3rd group.

• the larger point

  I think the larger point here isn’t “democracy” dafkah, it’s setting up a system and that gets ingrained into the mentality of the people being dictated by said system so that everone respects the working of the system even when they disagree with the outcome.

  I think that truncating Torah Law by binding it to democracy is limited. That said, there are many aspects of the democratic system that are based in Torah Law and should be respected when being put in to action in our community. If the talmud says you should vote, respect the vote. If the talmud says the Nasj decides, listen to the Nasi. You can disagree about the outcome but if you disagree with the system, then you disagree with Torah.

  THAT is the way we should be running things (IMHO). Once our children see that we are basing our actions strictly on the systems in place in the Torah and not on wether like or dislike the person/people involved, they will grow to respect our actions and those of our community, which will lead to a more peaceful community.

  I may be wrong but that seems to be the ikar of this article

• 45g5

  and we have 2 pizza shops two

• crown heights homeowner

  It is refreshing to read a thoughful op-ed. I agree with the author, that the source of the problem is essentially cultural. [Which is why, if I could have voted, I would have voted for baalei tshuva on the slate. I figure they might bring exactly that: a more “American” perspective.]

  I also agree that education is a major, if not THE major, issue this community has to address. I believe that the majority of children in our community – boys and girls – would be better served by a more “American” educational system.

  This Shavuos we had a guest, someone who came through the Oholei Torah system, who lives out of town with his wife and family. He spoke with great bitterness about his experience in OT — he said that he simply was not educated. I have heard this from many young men — people who did not choose to go on shlichus, and had to find a way to earn a living “in the world” – and who didn’t want to do credit card scams,
  etc. They wanted white collar, middle-class income jobs, which generally means they needed some college or technical education.
  I’m getting off the topic of this op-ed, which was about the need to establish a democratic culture in CH. And democratic means basically an American culture.

• to a call to action

  Let us learn from the American democratic system. This does not go against Halacha!
  There is a constitution, and all laws legislated by the elected congress must not contradict the constitution. If there is ever a doubt, it goes before the Supreme Court. (Incidentally the justices on the Supreme Court are appointed for life).
  We too, in CH have a constitution – the Torah/Halacha/Rebbe. We should be democratically voting in, the executive and legislative branches of government – Netzigim and Vaad hakohol. If there is ever a doubt as to if a Vaad idea fits in with Halacha/Rebbe, it should go to the independent, yet Supreme, Court – the Badatz!!! Why shouldn’t this work?

  (of course we can’t make an amendment to our constitution, [unlike with the American constitution, which can be done with a ¾ majority of all states] – the Torah/Rebbe will never change!)
  But most importantly, you will never have a renegade faction of the Supreme Court!?!?!
  Even if they are split 5-4 the decision will still follow the majority.
  Also you will never have a sitting president refusing to hand over power to the next President, nor would you have anyone boycotting an election!?!
  The question is, why? What is the secret of the success of the American system?
  I think this is what the article is trying to answer

• We need Moshiach

  What are the first and last letters in the word Machlokes,, only terrible things happen when there is so much Machlokess.. Just last week, a DIRECT DEATH occured from it in Boro Park, with little ELEVEN year old boys. One was from this bobover camp, and the other two boys were from that bobover camp. Every day, the two boys would bully the one that didnt agree with them. On that fateful day, little boy walking alone, saw the boys coming towards him, and ran into the street, because he didnt want to get beaten up,,, the result a levaya earlier this week. Kol Yisrael Areivim zeh lozeh!

• Simcha Hellinger

  I am like everyone else concerned when disputes become the priority of our community. The distress is magnified when knowing what tasks we have imbued with by the Rebbe.

  If there are sides that are willing to sit down for a Mishpot Shalom, please let me know.

  I would consider flying up to convene a hearing.

  Simcha Hellinger
  Former director Mishphot Shalom

• stop the hate

  To we need Moshiach

  Are you so certain of the facts? I think you are wrong. The kids were playing catch. That’s what i heard.

  Point is, you’re right, machloykes brings pain. Can we try to remember that & unite? EVERYONE????

• Boruch N. Niissim HaKohaine Hoffinger

  BS“D
  To: ”what-s the point of talking wrote,“ I agree, and it is FACT tha The Rebbe, MH”M, would never: “only agreed to elections for Rabbonim under great pressure from certain individuals…”
  Whoever wrote this is seeing him/herself, not The Rebbe. The Rebbe, MH“M, was one and completely united with HaShem and was no ‘pushover.’
  The Rebbe told us to vote and that the rabbonim shouldn’t get involved in the elections ”…this applies for now and the future.“ The Rebbe, MH”M said.
  My chavrusa didn’t vote. Why? “Well,” he said, “It’s not black and white.”
  I responded that if you don’t follow, TO THE LETTER, the words of The Nassi HaDor, you don’t believe The Rebbe is a prophet, you don’t believe in his powers!
  If the Rebbe told a TRUE CHOSSID-SCHLIACH to go to China,etc., or do such and such a ‘maaseh’ the ‘schliach’ would immediately act. He/she wouldn’t start interpreting the Rebbe’s words.
  WHEN THE REBBE, MH”M, SAID THAT WE SHOULD V O T E, THERE ARE NO IFS, NO ANDS, OR BUTS!
  If you don’t listen YOU ARE N O T A LUBAVITCHER CHASSID! (Except in your own imagination.)
  Period!

• mt

  did anyone hear of the many young deaths that occured this week R”L????? sooo much tzorres, that WE bring on ourselves!!!!!!!!!

• att: TWO SIDES

  Sorry to dissappoint you. Hatzalah actually does NOT have machlokes much as you seem to “know” it does. As part of the organization, I can assure you that we are one united organization.

• Hatzalah member

  sorry to say but we all have our politics.

• a:

  When running for public office if someone was a convict or harrases people with violence they would not be allowed. The usual elected officials have respectable debates.

• teenager

  ciIsh ECHAD bliev ECHAD!!!! THE ONLY WAY IT WORKS and for those who have problems with loshon hura dont comment. you arent making anything better if not worse!!!!

• Crowndad

  re hatzala; it is one very powerful organization – if there was a second u’d be up to ur gatkes in powerful gov’t politics – its not like shmorim trust me – besides you probably are one of the guys thrown out years ago for being hot headed!!
  No other reason to post that ;/

  hatzalo in CH is actually the one thing that we can be really proud off darn I wish everyone worked together like these guys…..

• Toshav Hashchunah

  Division is natural and there is a system to deal with division. Democracy is such a system, but it must be done right. A democracy doesn’t mean one voice that reflects a minority of the community, or several voices that 100% represent one minority faction in the community. I believe that a split is good, diversity is good, but it must be done in an orderly way and without disrespect to Rabonim and other factions. The solution: more kehilos, more Rabbonim. Every person in crown heights should be affiliated with a shul, yes, that means paying membership. The Shul should pay a rov to be their leader. That way there will be a more individualized system of leadership in the community. The Rabbonim together should create a vaad/beis din and elect from it on Rav to serve as an av beis din and marah d’asrah. They should all vouch to follow the rov and uphold the rov’s decisions, and the rov is not following their common best interests, the vaad of rabbonim will have the option of electing a different av beis din if they so decide. The Rabbonim should be paid by their shuls and the av beis din from money that is collected from dues that shuls pay (from membership) to the central vaad coffers. This coffer can pay for mikvaos and other community essentials that are paid from community coffers. This is the ideal way to run it, this is the democratic way to run it. This is what I believe should be implemented. Everyone rov would serve their community. There would be one central Kashrus, beis din etc. and everyone including every rov would get there say. We need someone to intervene, get the rabbonim interested in the idea, and get the askonim interested in the idea. and let us get a traditional community together with a real sense of leadership, something that we really need. (BTW, from the vaad of ALL the rabbonim they should elect a special vaad to oversee chinuch and one for kashrus etc.) I wish others would buy into this idea and let us make something real of it.

• eli

  the rebbe never wanted the election, when it came to where the rebbe DID have control, he did not alow elections, hence the imedite resignation of the gaboim after the first shabbos they were elected.

  and then of cource after gimmel tamuz (many yearsafte the election) they were put back on.

  ALSO, there is not ONE sicha of the rebbe after the first elections where the rebbe talks about crown height, even by major situation like by Lapine and the riots there were spechial sichos but not once did the rebbe mention CH. as the pepole in CH told the rebbe they want to choose who will be boss.

• wtvr

  BY DWELLING ON THE ISSUE YOU MAKE IT WORSE
  if evryone takes care of them selves and makes sure they are in check things would be moving much faster
  do dont talk
  there ahs way to much talking

• mommychts

  I saw a few postings, and I “listented” to what I was thinking. What I realized, was that I wasn’t interested in what anyone is saying, due to the likelihood that it is not true information. SO,
  in light of that, I am warning you all…..this is what others will more and more be doing….those that don’t need the excitement of the arguements and the fights…..they will become more apathetic due to mistrust, and then…..vey iz mir, what will be then of our Rebbe’s shechuna? A few people won’t be able to keep it together. The Rebbe gave ALL of us the koach and responsibility to take care of Crown Heights, THE HEARTBEAT OF CHABAD.
  PLEASE think it over and do something that has no smell of machlokus.
  for the Rebbe, and for our children, who are his children.

• wondering

  when moshe haber wrote his op-ed last week he signed his name.where is your signature

• bored montrealer :)

  ppls maybe since montreal is falling apart b/c no one is doing anything and CH is falling apart b/c everyone is “doing” something, some ppl from CH should move to montreal and some montrealers should move to CH. aint that a good idea?

• losers

  how come everyone has to argue about everything? every time there is an article about something there is a huge argument in comments. this was an exelent article and i completely agree with the author. why can’t everyone stop arguiong on everything they can possibly find to argue about. we are all jews so how every day there another civil war. is this what people call a chassideshe environment? i think i am going to move to lakewood. im shure there is more achdus among the snags then among you people who call yourselves lubavitcher chassidim.

• Kop Doktar-s Two State Solution

  The Road Map to peace in Crown Heights calls for a Two State Solution. The first resolution is that each side recognizes the other’s right to exist. Acts of terror will be denounced. No new forced enteries to settle into offices, and a time table to evacuate present settlements. Second stage is to divide the steets and avenues into independant states for each party. Third stage is to internationalize 770 and declare it a open to all nations. In the interm, a dividing line will allocate the west bank of the shul to the Talibans. the northern heights and the southern vallies will be partitioned, while the eastern sector will remain demilitarized for visitors and dignitaries. Each side will resolve for diplomatic solution and condem military options. Peace will be achieved in Crown Heights and in the Middle East! Amen!!

• sjs

  A two-state solution is not the solution for Israel and not the solution for Crown Heights.

• Mendel

  we have also 2 bagel shop
  we have 2 weeding hall
  we have 2 raskin fish store (for some reason)
  we have 2 kinus hasluchim
  we have 2 days alternance side parking a day (only 1 day in williasburg & boropark)
  but only one mikva for wooman
  and only one kollel that pay for only one year

  but BH we have only 1 Simcas Beis Hashueivo
  Credits to Moshe Rubashkin and Yisroel Shemtov

• Rumors, Propaganda and Facts

  Crown Heights has a history in politics, to the average Crown Heightser its “let them fight” and “who cares” or “I’m not interested” is that so? In politics there are a couple of aspects – rumors, propaganda, and fact.

  Rumors come from one party and spread from a misunderstanding of the whole situation and without any fact backing and no one wanting to stand by their own statement.

  Propaganda is when a party would like the community and its residents to believe that they are the right and just cause, and that they are fighting for your rights and in turn they receive your support.

  Fact is hard on paper – who’s the plaintiff who’s the defendant? Who’s the accuser who’s the accused? Who’s the legal owner and who’s the intruder?

  Many of us truly don’t care and would like to go on with our daily lives, without getting involved with any party or politics. But as we go about our lives we are influenced by rumors and propaganda, and as we engage in conversation on these issues this is what our argument becomes. So why are we influenced by things that are simply opposite fact? Either because it’s just easier to believe then to ask. Or its just comfortable for our little worlds and we would like to side with what we think works for us or fits with what we would like to think as our own principle and values.

  For example when seeking to send our child to camp or seeking a summer job we have no problem with a camp which is engulfed in politics from its establishment with a Psak din on paper (fact) banning this establishment, but on the other hand we would not want to send our child or seek a job in a camp that has not paid his staff (in full), which this are merely rumors spread by two or three staff members who are bitter and out to feed your son and fellow staff hatred towards the camp, and in turn destroy the name and credibility of this camp. So we see that we tend to do what’s comfortable for us in any situation.

• emes

  Your op-ed is full of ignorance, before you you preach about democracy, read the dam bylaws that govern the Crown Heights JCC, and then maybe you will understand whats going on in CH, not a single blogger on this or any other sights ever read the by-laws, but yet they spew nonsense and ignorance, the whole challenge in court is to uphold the by-laws that give us the right to vote as opposed to wiliamsburg , flatbush, and Boro park. why don’t they have the right to vote for COGO or UJO before you all talk learn some of the facts so you won’t look so foolish.

• concerned resident

  Immigrant mentality or decendents thereof, administer this community. We are in America now! Our beloved Rebbe is deceased, though his legacy lives on. Denial to the fullest extent, even taught in schools, perpetuates a quiet insanity. All this anti-social display of arrogance seems to be the norm here. We are no longer in Russia–we have become our own persecutors. The patterns of this type of behavior is so ingrained because of heritage. It’s okay to stop, reflect, and change your thoughts from fear to cooperation. We all only want whats best for CH ideally.

• Chaim Hershkop

  “We have two groups (shomrim, shmira) who are “ensuring” that we are safe, meanwhile ensuring that the other group sits in jail.”

  As a Shomrim volunteer who never had anything to do with anybody from the shmira (not for the good or bad),
  I am offended by the generalization above.

  I (chaim Hershkop) was Massered on (with two of my actual Brothers, Gadi and Yudi and some of my fellow volunteers), I (Chaim Hershkop) and my friends have to show up to Court every few weeks to defend ourselfs from this viscous Mesira.
  I (Chaim Hershkop) will now have to defend myself in a criminal Trail.

  It is unfair and unjust to put Us in this “Machlokes Box” as if where a bunch of Babies telling on each other.

  I have done nothing wrong, except to do my out must to help other Yidden (if that is my crime then I’m guilty as hell).

  I don’t know of any Shmira members who are facing trial because of a mesira done to them by ANY Shomrim member.

  There are documentations that proof any Mesira (reports etc…) and it is up to you (the people) to demand them.

  The only ones that benefit from making this in to a Machlokes is the Shmira (they have nothing to loss by doing this and in fact only to win). This attitude of “it’s two sides fighting each other” is just a distraction and is for the advantage of the people actually doing mesira.

  It’s time that people start looking at the Facts, RIGHT and WRONG. It’s time that people stand up for our (the Torah/ Shulchan Aruch) Principles (and not pick bias our opinions on party lines). When one has principles and morals then RIGHT IS RIGHT and WRONG IS JUST WRONG, no matter who is doing it!

  This is the third up-ed that i have seen this generalization, I know the authors mean well and are trying to not take sides (by being politically correct), but by not taking a side, you are taking a side, your not taking the side of JUSTICE,TRUTH, and PEACE.

  as it says In the last Mishna in Chapter one in Pirka Avot:
  [18] Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel said: The world endures by virtue of three things: justice, truth, and peace, as it is stated “Administer truth and the justice of peace in your gates”.

  ——————————————————–

  “Crown Heights has a history in politics, to the average Crown Heightser its “let them fight” and “who cares” or “I’m not interested” is that so? In politics there are a couple of aspects – rumors, propaganda, and fact.

  Rumors come from one party and spread from a misunderstanding of the whole situation and without any fact backing and no one wanting to stand by their own statement.

  Propaganda is when a party would like the community and its residents to believe that they are the right and just cause, and that they are fighting for your rights and in turn they receive your support.

  Fact is hard on paper – who’s the plaintiff who’s the defendant? Who’s the accuser who’s the accused? Who’s the legal owner and who’s the intruder?

  Many of us truly don’t care and would like to go on with our daily lives, without getting involved with any party or politics. But as we go about our lives we are influenced by rumors and propaganda, and as we engage in conversation on these issues this is what our argument becomes. So why are we influenced by things that are simply opposite fact? Either because it’s just easier to believe then to ask. Or its just comfortable for our little worlds and we would like to side with what we think works for us or fits with what we would like to think as our own principle and values.”

• not surprized

  people wonder why Moshiach isn’t here. Sinus Chinum — anyone?

• The real issue

  what will educating the kids in democracy help when all the kids are told to go on shlichus and leave the community anyway,which means only the worst element of are society will remain here in crown heights no matter what you educate them in.

• momke

  if you be a little objective and go back a few years you will easly see the cause of all this situation.

  this started right after Rabbi Marlow o“h was nifter the kehile was to big for Rabbi Osdoba which had no experience since he did almost not involved himself in communal matters.

  he refused to take over Rabbi Marlow full time job and denied the request to make elections for a Rov to replace Rabbi Marlow.

  when he, against his own contract with the kehila, took away kashrus the all machloikes started and the kehila structure build in the past collapsed. Rabbi Yitchok Zirkin then said ”this will cause the churbn“.

  this was way before Herzog and Rabbi Shcwei.

  later he had no choice and had to accept getting someone to seat in the Bais Din and answer day to day shayles and Rabbi Schwei came in and worked for about two years.

  again not being able to say no, he agreed for elections but he made sure that no third Rov will be elected vetoing many many candidates and only allowing very few that did not wanted to run.

  he tried many tricks that will allow him not to be overpowerd and in control.

  I can go on and on but the bottom line is that he is responsible for the situation we are in today. He has no limits he can stand against Rabonim like Rav Zalmen Shimon o”a, against a Beis Din that he himself selected and agreed to listen to. He can go to erkos shel akum and get a niduy and continue as nothing happened. He refuses to go to a din toire and orders others called to din toires not to go.

  Rabbi Zirkind (that recently left kashrus because of Zalmen Osdoba and surprisently got sucked into this mess) was 100 % right there is no daubt RABBI OSDOBA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS CHURBN!!!

• 86g6

  45g5:

  And there are two ways to spell too.

• Right

  Wow, they even take their elections into our schools. The banner on Kingston Avenue wasn’t enough?

  Your taking sides big time, mr. Auther, the wrong side. Peace activists, particularly the ones that preach “change,” are generely known to be copouts who fail to stand by the side of truth and show support. Peace, Democrocy, Elections, Side by Side two state modern educated people should be working to fund organizations like Hammas and promote peace overthere – don’t bring that garbage to us here in Crown Heights.

  “By not taking a side, you are taking a side, your not taking the side of justice, truth and peace.”

• I. M. Wright

  To 86g3:

  Actually, three (see above).