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“Women! Step Aside for Men!”

NY Daily News

City workers have removed signs warning women in a Hasidic neighborhood in Brooklyn to step aside for men.

But the Parks Department says the teardowns in South Williamsburg had nothing to do with the message itself; it’s just illegal to post signs on street trees.

“We do not know who put up the signs,” said Parks spokeswoman Trish Bertuccio.

The large signs started popping up in the neighborhood more than a week ago. They had a Yiddish message that translates as: “Precious Jewish daughter, please move to the side when a man approaches.”

Neighborhood residents were annoyed the plastic signs, which were bolted into the wood, were taken away.

“The signs don’t bother anybody,” said Abraham Klein, 18. “Men and ladies don’t go together. It’s just our religion.”

Faye Grwnfeld, 70, said the signs were “a private thing” – even though they were posted on public property.

“It’s taking away freedom of speech,” she said.

The signs didn’t indicate who put them up, but talk in the neighborhood suggested they were posted by a hard-line rabbinical group.

Deborah Feldman, an ex-Hasid and author of “Unorthodox: The Scandalous Rejection of my Hasidic Roots,” said no one in the neighborhood, where she once lived, would have been surprised by the signs.

“This is standard practice in Hasidic communities all over: Step aside when a man is approaching you from the opposite direction,” she said.

She said the signs likely were posted as part of a crackdown on rebellious behavior by women.

“It’s a way of the community reminding people to stay in line, so to speak,” she said.

Feldman noted that similar signs can be seen in Hasidic strongholds like upstate Kiryas Joel and New Square – and they didn’t make the papers like the ones in Williamsburg did.

“This is nothing new. It’s getting attention because it’s Brooklyn, and Williamsburg is no longer an isolated bubble,” she said.

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49 Comments

  • You have to see it to believe it

    If they don’t step aside will they be stoned or beaten? Nothing like a few lashes to show a Jewish woman her place.

    These stone age Rabbis are unbelieveable.

  • The Satmar Religion

    “Men and ladies don’t go together. It’s just our religion.”

    Hmm… There’s no mention of that in my bible. I guess it must be exclusively in the Satmar edition of the bible.

  • Why?

    Are women in the chareidi communities so dumb that they don’t know by themselves that they have to step aside? They need huge signs to tell them??

  • moishe puppik

    why deliberately drive bolts into a tree? how about we bolt ur hands and feet to a cross.. much better.

  • Hungarian

    This is just the “Satmar-Hungarian” thing to do. It’s part of there 10 comandments. They always Koch Zich in these type of things….

  • reader

    If they didn’t want it removed put it on lamp posts. The msg should call out to the males and women alike but it looks like the women in their community will b more understanding. Who knows maybe it’ll b decided men on this side of the block women on the other… The entire concept of ladies first is for the other party to have something to look at.

  • Achdus

    Lets not make sweeping generalizations about a heilige kehilla in Klal Yisroel just as we wouldnt want fellow Yidden to make sweeping generalizations about all of Lubavitch. Tznius is part of Yiddishkeit and has been always.

  • Andrea Schonberger

    Us ladies had better step aside for the men volk–who knows what vile thoughts are lurking in their brains while we go about such abnormal business like shopping or taking the kids out for a walk!! LOL!!!

  • Meah Shearim Hungarian

    Williamsburg is already the Meah Shearim / Batei Ungarin of the USA b4 these signs. Now With these signs its even more like Meah Shearim. Which is food 4 them. Soon Williamsburg will b called Meah Shearim, Bklyn

  • cher

    i am a woman, i work in williamsburg, and I don’t dress up to their standards at all, and they are very very nice. I never get any nasty comments, unlike here in c.h. There is a concept of shmiras ainayim and machshavos zarois. So if men are walking with their heads down, it makes sense for the women to move aside when they see a man walking their way. Im sure most of them are happy to oblige, who are we to judge them. Halevai we should be as tznius as they are.

  • Milhouse

    #1 and #2, it’s not the Satmar religion, it’s the Jewish religion. If you don’t like it go to church for all I care, but get off this site. How dare you call those who teach open halacha “stone age”?

    #3, Maybe they need a reminder; what’s your objection to a sign?

    #5, what religion are you? Why NOT drive bolts into a tree? What do you think the tree was created for in the first place?

    #7 “Ladies first” is the way of Eisov. How do you not know that? Didn’t you learn Chumash and Rashi in cheder?

    #10, what’s the difference between trees and lamp posts? They’re both equally illegal.

  • Religious Fanatics

    I heard a story years ago, I think in Nitra, that in one community the men and women walk on opposite sides of the street. In an adjoining community, the women just walk a
    few feet behind the men. GET THIS! You know what the adjoininng community says about the other one? “They’re
    religious fanatics.”

  • reader

    no. 12 is right. Proper ladies would step aside. It was always so in the old country and should also be that way now. America iz nit andresh, ever hear that saying before? Hope to see it one day in Crown Hgts. Maybe the women and ladies will start such a wonderful way of conducting themselves. A great way to start the New Year!!

  • A Bubbe

    We should be so lucky to not just have such signs but that the women and girls would follow what the sign says. Its the way it should be.

  • PEACEMAKER

    Better still men should walk on one side of the street painted BLUE and the women should walk on the other side painted PINK. There will be no need for signs¬

  • A FEW CRAZIES (tznius is still normal)!

    WHY TRY TO TRASH NORMAL TZNIUS via a few craizies!

    dont deligitimise 99% of us who are smart well adjusted normal ppl who respect our selves & others on the street, & value Tznius educate!

    something we jewish women have done for 1000s of years withour breaking the chain!

  • 5 Radicals = NO EXCUSE to stigmatize...

    this piece reeks of a hidden agenda, to taint the discussion as Radicals vs Liberated progressives!

    these crazies are completely against the Rebbe!

    the same Rebbe told us the many blessings that following tznius brings to a family & Chas”V the many torah sources that warn of tragedies etc by removing Hashem’s protection

    so lets not confuse the issues bec of a couple of RADICALS! ….

  • Mendy Hecht

    Hi Andrea,

    Nice to see at least one more person who actually uses his/her real name here.

    In short, the reason they do this is actually because they want to keep alive a sociocultural standard that was probably the overwhelming ironclad norm in the Jewish ghettos and shtetls of Europe but has been apparently eroding in recent weeks/months/years due to inroads made by the surrounding secular atmosphere.

    Now, as to why the sociocultural standard, let’s just say they maintain a very high level of a certain sensitivity.

    This sensitivity has been by and large lost by mainstream society what with the reduction of men and women to asexual, generic “people” in the name of “equality”–with gender identities whose anemic absence is in direct inverse proportion to its purported strength and liberation.

    In other words, the best-kept secret here is: Less is more.

    (Conversely, more is less.)

    Today’s society, on the other hand, says: Get as much as you can as often as you can. But society is clearly wrong. About the only place where women are still feminine in the classic time-tested and extremely healthy and satisfying way, and men are likewise masculine, is in the Orthodox Jewish community (and perhaps, to a lesser extent, in Muslim and other gender-delineated cultures).

  • Not impressed with Hecht

    Hecht, you didn’t address her point. You made a statement about what you believe was the PROBABLY the norm in Jewish ghettos. I have no idea where you get that from nor why you think even if it was the norm why we should be replicating it. I read an interview from Rav Tendler quoting his father in law Rav Moshe Feinstein talking how weddings in the alter heim were always mixed seating. I can’t imagine they’d have mixed seating at their weddings and force women to walk on opposite sides of the street ala Kiryas Joel. You’re making up things to justify a sexist, antiquated position that has no basis in halacha nor in any normal modern jewish lifestyle.

  • a woman worker in willy

    #15.

    I also work in Williamsburg & I DO dress to their standards, short sheitel, heavier stockings, full sleeves, dark colors. I find the women still treat me as the visiting shiksa.

    I don’t care very much, but their hypocrisy is terrible. But I will NOT move aside for a man unless I don’t want them bashing into me.

    Why don’t the signs tell the men to behave like gentlemen & move aside for ladies especially when they have wide strollers. That will never happen, chauvenists!

  • #22 yes, ty!

    the Rebbe’s view here is the perfect balance!

    encouraging & FIRM TO HALACHA yet not RADICAL or Shovenistic

  • Miriam Spielman

    IN THE DAYS OF THE BAIS HAMIKDOSH WOMEN AND MEN gave korbonos (old fashioned davening) in the same location – mixed style.

    It was only for the simchas bais hashoeva that there became a need to separate men and women to discourage frivolity. At first women were on the inside and men were on the outside. Then this was switched so that men danced inside the circle and women could look in from the outside ring. Finally they built a balcony so that women could watch from above. These “takanos” were made by the chachomim as a result of the behaviour of the people, not because this is how Hashem initially instructed.

    The above was however implemented to assist in maintaining a holy environment, which is the end result that Hashem wants – however there can be many ways to achieve the same end result. It is important to recognise that initially it was deemed acceptable to have men and women together in the ezras noshim of the bais hamikdosh while dancing was happening(see gemora sukkos). It appears that even when this takono was in place during the simchas bais hashoeva, nevertheless during the rest of the year it appears that this takono wasn’t instituted.

    All the halachos and chumros that we have today (respectfully) are influenced by cultural circumstance to keep the holiness. Until recently these halachos were developed with a stronger focus on the male engagement in his environment and a lesser emphasis on the impact on the female engagement within her society. This is neither good nor bad, it just “is”. However the result has been that some of the prevailing chumros and culturall attitudes have restricted and to some extent also trivialised those women who are baalos yirei shomayim, talmidei chachomos or noshim tzanuos (and many women who are honest with her feelings try not to think about this, although it hovers there somewhere).

    Because women today are recognised in a more gender-balanced society and women today and forevermore live in the age of a more empowered lifestyle, there is becoming a need for Rabbonim and Rebbetzins, mashpiim and mashpios to consider the result on the female gender more carefully when forming policies.

    It is the same process that has been used throughout the mishnaic and talmudic eras, except that the need to place more emphasis on the female perspective in those days was not as culturally important as it is today. In those days there were indeed tanaim and amoraim who argued in favour of the woman’s perspective but they were “outvoted” by their counterparts because in those days the woman’s perspective was not as socially or culturally important. (Having said this they always considered it important to protect women from harm and form legislation to ensure this.)

    So in today’s world, especially in the times of Moshiach where malchus gover, it would be halachically sound to develop a more holistic (considering the issues more fully) and inclusive halachic directives to resolve the current cultural status to ensure that is conducive both to kedusha and also that hatzibur yecholim laamod bo (both the men and the women of the tzibbur).

    The role of Rabbanim throughout history has been to form halacha to assist the needs of the people. (To the point that in certain situations the bais din shel maaloh must accede to the verdict of the bais din shel matoh). These days “the needs of the people” includes the very real needs of the women of the communities. To consider the female emotional/ social consequences when determining halachic policy is becoming extremely important and crucial to the continuity of the chassidishe lifestyle. This takes understanding and education at every level of the halachic and social ladder and certainly with goodwill and genuine understanding it can and it will be’h be achieved.

  • ILLEGAL BY LAW. APARTHEID.

    This sign is illegal!!!!!!!!!!!

    This is considered apartheid under the law.

  • Yuck

    I saw the signs and I was dewply offended. Why are women considered 2nd class citizens in Williamsburg? Sorry to say this but those signs would never have been hung in BoroPark, Flatbush or any other neighborhood!

  • Makes me think

    after hearing some tragic horror stories from the other extreem! due to all sensitivity being lost for gender seperation etc

    id rather have this Archean standard, where men & women are over sensitive , bec the trade off offered by secular society s far more tragic & fraught with complexity drama for half of “secular adults”

  • to 13

    Next time I’m on a date, should I hold the door open for the bochur saying, men first?

  • to 13. be a man

    according to the Rambam a MAN should get HIMSELF out of the way!
    i.e. go to the side or slow down or run ahead etc..

    this is unheard of wackiness and perversion never seen in the jewish history.

    it says in the torah “LO SOSURU ACHAREY LIVAV- CHEM!” = dont stray after YOUR eyes and YOUR hearsts. YOUR’s not HER’s. be a man and behave yourSELF.

    A man in Canada.

  • best if I don-t give my name

    I’m sorry, I just don’t get it….why don’t men step aside for ladies? I think there is already a perception that women in Orthodox Judaism are considered 2nd class citizens. We have an opportunity to change that perception but not like this. We drive, vote (some of us on our own!) and work outside the home and we are still able to take care of our husbands,our homes and our children. A marriage is a partnership, not a monarchy. If a man on the street is uncomfortable when approaching a woman on the same sidewalk, then he should move away. I think the “rules” are made by men who don’t have what to do in their lives….

  • Taliban Alert!

    WOW! WE HAVE A REAL LIFE TALIBAN HERE IN CH. MILHOUSE!!!

    PRAY FOR HIS WIFE IF HE HAS ONE THAT’S STILL ALIVE!!

  • FINAL WORD

    I agree with peacemaker. One side of the street painted BLUE for men and the other side painted PINK for ladies. Just to make sure that that no one peakes at the other side, there shoudl be thick mechitza like BUSHES at each end of side walk so that can not chas vesholom see each other.That the ONLY way.

  • Braun yy

    to # 8

    y dont u get it….. Since Rabbi? Braun moved to CH, he brings with him all Satmar and Hungarien Minhogim.
    Your allowed to forge signatures, but you (lady) are not allowed to pass next to a man.
    btw, if the lady passes next to him, will he tell her to leave, or he will he rather spend time to explain her a halochoh..

  • AA

    Milhouse, meiheichan dantuni? Please point to somewhere in the texts of the Jewish religion where it says that women have to step aside for men in the street.

    To be separated in shul – unquestionably.

    At simchos – depends who you ask; we Anash do, but there are respectable posekim who say differently.

    That beis din is responsible for preventing mingling during the Yamim Tovim – certainly.

    But, to borrow a phrase from yesterday’s Tanya, “Has such a thing ever happened in days past? Where indeed have you found such a custom in any of the books of the early or latter sages of Israel,” that on a public sidewalk a man may not walk by an unrelated woman?

  • Anon

    Why are people so out of tune with Hashem and mindless that they have to knee-jerk quote the Rebbe and sages?

    If you can’t walk down the street without looking at a person for who they truly are instead of objectifying them, then adjust yourself instead of inhibiting the G-D given free will of others. “What you think of me is not my problem.”

    Unless you’ve lived on both sides of the religious/secular coin, don’t be an ignoramus by saying one is better than the other. Both have great flaws, wonderful merits and plenty in common.

  • Shimon L

    Having read lots of “Alte Heim” literature (Chaim Grade, IJ Singer, IB Singer, Sholem Aleichem, Yechezkel Kotik, Peretz, Elberg, Agnon, Ansky and others, I can tell you Mendy Hecht, with 100% certainty, you are wrong. YOU ARE SO WRONG. Most women dressed like the Rebbe’s rebbetzin did. A percentage of ladies were super tziyos but the people didn’t consider most of them holy, just farchnyukt… In shul of course there was a mechitza, but on the street, in the market, not only did the ladies not move to the side for the men, the ladies ran almost all the shops. Tailors, shoemakers, blacksmiths were men, but females ran almost all the stores. Most of the shoppers were females, and men were second fiddle, nobody moved anywhere for them because the streets and markets were the women’s domain. And BTW, since they made weddings in the house there definitely were no mekhitzas, and certainly not two separate halls.

  • Chumash

    I seem to remember that Rashi says that Avraham and Sarah had their own tents, and that they taught the men and women separately, in their own tents. Torah MeLoshon Horahah, looks like there is a lesson in here somewhere. Gut Yom Tov.

  • Re 48

    To Chumash: Teaching separate laws to meet the needs of different people (ie men or women) has nothing to do with walking down the same street.

    Never in Jewish history did men and women walk separately in the streets.

    This is not Yiddishkeit, it is a made up religion. This is offense and nonsense made by people who think they can be smarter and frummer than Hashem.