This logic is actually supported by the torah. In Sotah we recently learnt that the reason Beis Hilel holds one may divorce his wife if she burnt his food is Ahavas Yisroel. The reasoning goes something like this: Why let the negativity and resentment brew within, leading to much larger grievances, when we can separate them while they are still on good terms? Strange indeed, but a svara nonetheless.
This svara works when applied: As a colony, America hated England. But as an independent state, it built a great relationship with England, which is now America’s number one ally.
Peace For Lubavitch!
Over shabbos I heard talk about splitting the community once and for all. Each side has become too much of a burden for the other, and the differences are clearly irreconcilable.
This logic is actually supported by the torah. In Sotah we recently learnt that the reason Beis Hilel holds one may divorce his wife if she burnt his food is Ahavas Yisroel. The reasoning goes something like this: Why let the negativity and resentment brew within, leading to much larger grievances, when we can separate them while they are still on good terms? Strange indeed, but a svara nonetheless.
This svara works when applied: As a colony, America hated England. But as an independent state, it built a great relationship with England, which is now America’s number one ally.
Indeed, it requires a certain maturity to separate and split, to recognize incompatibility and to stop fighting. But, to come to that recognition, one must first assess his priorities and values, the value of the “opponent” and the value of unity.
There are many subcultures within every umbrella culture, and often, there will be incompatibilities between the subcultures. But the reason they still rally under the same umbrella culture is because the differences, when weighed against the value of unity (both, for its own merits, and for the practical value of unity, such as doubled resources, etc.) are negligible.
(In the case of the wife who burnt the food, the whole value of the relationship is love and appreciation. Take those away and there is no reason to go on. So, at the onset of resentment, a divorce makes sense. In the case of America’s declaration of independence, the main desire of the settlers was liberty and independence, and that overrode any practical considerations that may have favored unity.)
Satmar now stands at the brink of a split. And you know what? I think such a split is a good idea. Once split, the animosity will recede. Also, each side has the capacity for independence. Both have Rebbe’s, funding and large communities. Besides, there is no one great rallying cause to encourage peace and to burry the hatchet.
In Chabad, however, our unity is essential. First of all, the rallying cause is so much greater than our differences. And if you think that we can still carry on with the cause even after a split (all Jews, after all, worship Ha’Kadosh Baruch Hu, and yet we are split into many sects, each with independent causes), you are gravely mistaken. The mistake may come from naïveté and idealism, but, in reality, when talking about divisions, we must realize that once fences are going up, we won’t just split into two communities. Think of any one machlokes in Chabad, and imagine a split along that line. Would you then have unity on either side? Of course not! The divisions keep going. So you divide Chabad in quarters, and again you realize there are differences within each division, and you split again, until, on one dark day you’ll realize that Chabad doesn’t exist as a community any more, but as some unattainable ideal, to be united only when Moshiach comes. Therefore, talk about division is highly irresponsible, as it ony deepens the frustration and perception of incompatibility, instead of working towards unity and healing.
Okay. So what are we supposed to do about a schism that isn’t large enough to warrant a split, but still paralyzes Chabad? A flat tire may not be a reason to throw away the car, but it renders the car dysfunctional until replaced. The answer is a hard one to implement, but an easy one to understand: Compromise and make peace. At any cost.
Itzik_s
Who is splitting any community? Except for a few nuts on the fringes who are present in any group of people as large as we are, everyone is just talking. And the community is not paralyzed – it is just not running as efficiently as it should. Such is life, and the fact is that the people who could best run the community are the ones who have the least time and inclination to do so because they are too busy with more important things than community politics, or they have seen everyone who does get involved feel sorry that they ever started. Such is life. Let the few jerks sort themselves out and have fun watching as they resort to teenage pranks, useless lawsuits in civil and Torah courts, etc. Just keep the garbage out of the press – including the Chabad press – because no one is interested after a while, and those who are can hear it in the mikve. (I highly recommend Lefferts mikve for such talk – Montgomery is too quiet and the water in Union St is not healthy, especially when combined with large doses of loshon horo and rechilus.)
Chabad is not splitting, CH is not splitting – only a few losers are splitting.
It-s up to us!
I agree but considering all the EGOS involved believe it’s wishful thinking.
Split is Happening
Dovid,
I think you have to look deeper in to the machlokes to realize that the fights are not a matter of issues, but rather individuals (on both sides) that are drawn to the lifestyle that will creat such split regardless of who is with them. their friends today will be there enemies tomorrow.
I think a split will work (and is happening, there are many people who don’t get involved with any community matters, since they preceive it as a big joke) if you split the community along the lines of people that are M’charchei Riv vs. people that are tolerante to the existince (and success) of their fellow yid.
sick to my stomach
I am sick to my stomach at what I have just read. What/who can I believe? How can there possibly be peace when there are such letters being placed at our doors. How can we respect either of the parties involved: the accused and the accusees?
G-d have mercy on us all!
Israel
I think it might be a good idea to learn from other communities on how to accomplish unity. a good start might be to implement membership dues and to scrap the mas hakohol because it is anyway by and large a big flop. card carrying members, and only card carrying members will have a right to vote on a new community council. after the new community council has taken office they should form a search committee which will interview potential candidates for rabbonim. after the selection process has ended then one rov and one asstant rov will be picked by majority vote of the Rabbinical selection committee, and then we will have the rabbonim we need and peace will reign in the community
yankel-ch
your brother is continuing the trouble he started in 5752, proving the saying "once a troubel maker always a troublemaker" first clean up the garbage in your own family, then you can think of becoming a spokesman for a community that you do not even live in!
Moish / Eretz Yisroel
This article is hallucinating.
What are you talking about bichlal.
Do you think Chabad is Crown Heights? Get a view!
I am telling you. You C-H people are a weird brand.
BTW. Congratulations on the recent acquisition of 3 great Rabonim. Hopefully they’ll help build a stronger and more unified community.
We want Moshiach Now!
Let-s move on..
Please, the artical is a nice artical.
Don’t Rune it with more hate.
"Compromise and make peace. At any cost."
anonymous
great article!
Halavay
I would suggest that rabbi Osdoba and rabbi Scwei settle their differences in a private room and come out into the open with 1 (one) voice.
There will have to be certain things each will have to swollow. It may take some time to iron their diffrences.
It can a very bitter pill. But as long as there is fighting between the rabbonim everything else will fall to the wayside.
shmuly
To Itzik s:
In case you are unaware ALL our "leaders" are fighting like teenagers. Dont try to sweep it under the carpet like weve been doing for years! And you say "Just keep the garbage out of the press" is that all you are worried about? What else do you want to "sweep under the carpet"? Get real. "Such is the life"!
Anti- Mishichist... Pro Chabad
[Very well said, but the writer is only answering to those that think a splite will be good, he is not so much for that idea.]
There are thank G-d alot of Individuals who are trying to make a diffrents, We most thank and Appreciate them.
We have all the members of the Crown Heights SHOMRIM to thank.
Thank you for giving your time, money (gas) and most of all your lives, to make our community a safer place.
Thank all those Individuals who are doing there very best for our youth.
Thank all those Individuals that help familys with all there needs (weddings, rent, school and camps).
If it was not for people like them we would have nothing to splite up.
If only all that energy we saw in the last few weeks were used to do more good.
All that money waisted for nothing.
If YOU don’t do it nobody will,
So get out there and see were YOU can give a hand.
Let’s stop crying and start doing.
Doesn-t like suspense in articles
Although I was a bit distracted by the first 75% of the piece – promoting a split. (It took some bravery to read on.) I appreciate your conclusion ("Compromise and make peace. At any cost").
DIN TORAH
Any split in chabad including CH split is only because the parties involved refuse to follow explicit directive of the Rebbe in how to solve diferences: "GO TO A DIN TORAH"
FISHERS machloikes started when he refused a Din Tora and got a NIDUY
KRINSKY – SHEMTOV also refused to go to Din Tora and got an YI TZAYES LEDIN
SEGAL also refused to go to Din Tora and is a MESAREV LEDIN
RUBASHKIN & COMPANY also refused to go to Din Tora and are MESUROVIM LEDIN
RABBI OSDOBA was asked by Rabbi Schwei many times to go and solve their diferences by Rabbonim and was ignored. Hazmonos were send to him to go to a Din Tora and refused.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS: IF WE DON’T LISTEN TO THE REBBE THE OUTCOME IS WHAT WE EXPERIENCING NOW – MACHLOIKES, CHAOS, ANARCHY, FRAUD, CORRUPTION YOU NAME IT!!!
THERE IS NO DIN AND NO DAYON!!!
KOL DEALIM GVAR!!!
Who is responsilble for this ?
THE KOHOL!
YOU GOT TO GO OUT AND BE VOCAL DEMAND FROM OUR RABBONIM THEY SHOLUD GO AND SEAT BY A DIN TORA OR ZABLO AND STOP ACTING THIS WAY!!!
GO OUT AND SCREAM AD MOSAI!!! WE SHOULD GO OUT AND GET A PETITION DEMANDING FROM RABBONIM TO GO TO A DIN TORA!!!
LO NITNO TORAH ELO L’ASOS SHOLOM B’OILOM!!!
CHer
Webby; when ppl read this article they should really have the context of who Poltrak is…
Speaking of nuts…
Let’s put this into contex: let’s all bear in mind who’s writing this article… Poltrak who has a long history of getting involved in a fight….
He’s a michanchariv and someone who always maneges to get himself invalved in machlokes and perude… so it comes as no surprise that today he’s proposing a split… because that’s what makes him tick…
retardadtion
Poltrecks write like his a major league negoatiator in the middle east. It is very clear where his aleigance is. As the above perosn write he is a first class nut case so lets ignore all what he wrote anyways.
Sperlin and nash are another 2 fine examples of baalei machlokos. Enough of those letters.
We have B"H three new rabbonim lets get on with the show. If the Schwei camp doesnt like it they are free to leave CH and start a new kehillah somewhere else.
Maybe they can buy up the remaining homes in Cozy bungaglow colony u.e. Yanki Hertzog’s place in Monticello.
Make Schwei Chief rabbi and Herzog and Chanina the vaad hokohol
Itzik_s
To Itzik s:
In case you are unaware ALL our "leaders" are fighting like teenagers. Dont try to sweep it under the carpet like weve been doing for years! And you say "Just keep the garbage out of the press" is that all you are worried about? What else do you want to "sweep under the carpet"? Get real. "Such is the life"!
______________________________________________
Maybe your leaders are fighting. Mine aren’t. If the Beis Din does not work out, I won’t be happy – but I’ll manage in life as will most people I know. I don’t care what these clowns do. There are better things in life and much better things in Chabad. We are a diverse community where everyone finds his place, and mine is not with the politicians. 50% of my friends voted, 50% did not vote – since none of us is planning to take the other to a Din Torah anytime soon, we’re not crying over it.
All of these Vaad Hakohol jokers are in it for themselves and we all know it. No one who isn’t in it for himself has time for such nonsense. But sometimes through self interest something of value for the community does result, so we might as well give them a chance.
Most people just go about their lives and watch the circus sideshow, talking about it when there is not much to talk about and when issues are hot, and then forgetting about it by the time the next Shabbos comes along. No one is going to split over these schmeggeges, except that various groups of schmeggeges have already split among themselves.
They are teenagers who have not matured, and they are all looking for attention. Some have no jobs; others conduct monkey business via their positions. Why give them the attention they crave? If they don’t do their jobs, throw them out – but only if they can be replaced with real leaders. At this point the whole system rots and there is no point even dealing with it – instead of discussing it, come up with a new structure, or just live your life as the Rebbe wanted you to, and realize that something just went wrong for whatever reason, and perhaps we cannot understand why it went wrong (For instance, 2 of the factors in the Beis Din mess were the petira of Rav Marlow AH before his time, and the tragedy in Rav Heller’s family, namely the petira of his Rebbetzin AH.)
So, if you have a way of getting rid of the whole bunch of them and starting again – good. If not, what can we do when the community is on the one hand polarized over these issues – but on the other hand, we are still friends and neighbors, and next week we will not even remember who voted, who didn’t, and what happened during the election?
Dovid
Yankel: Is truth "trouble"? All he wrote there is under oath and under penalty of perjury. The ONLY way we can ever proceed to peace is if we weed out the corruption!
CHer, did you even bother reading the article?
I’m very unimpressed that when my brother went and put his word, his name, his job (if convicted of perjury he is stripped of his license to practice law) and everything else on a statement which exposed the truth of the corruption so that the community should know the truth (and not for the sake of either side, for, if you read the letter, he started with Osdoba) all people can come up with are personality attacks and what not. How predictable. If you’re against what my brother wrote, you’re pro-corruption. No other way to look at it.
Truth
Speak about the issue, not the person. Even wicked people can teach something (not to say CH"V that D.P is a wicked person, I don’t know him from a bar of soap!)
Just continuing the hate trail, doesn’t get you anywhere. Especially if the hate blinds you from what he said. He clearly writes that splitting will not work!! (though I disagree with the entire pretext of the article)
WAUTA
Very well written, by a very smart boy, who just doesn’t get it.
Avreml
All this theory of whether to split or not split, which is better and what the choices are – is all irrelevant because it is too late for that now.
We are already split between the Schwei Camp and Osdoba Camp and it will stay this way forever – it’s a matter of fact, not a matter of opinion
Thanks to Osdoba’s disregarding the Peace Accords 5 minutes after he signed it himself, Osdoba is teaching our youth to disrespect all our agreements with each other and continue to fight forever.
It isn’t a question to split or not split. We are past that since Osdoba burnt the bridge to peace behind him, with no bridge to go back on.
There is no point in negotiating a "new peace" between the 2 sides if everyone knows that 5 minutes after Osdoba signs the Peace Accords he can turn around and laugh in everyones face and say: Ha Ha Ha ….I tricked You…No Peace … "I Changed My Mind"…."I decided" I don’t have to keep my word because I have no integrity…..
Shame On You!
most of crown heights
avremel, you couldnt have said it better.
nachman
It’s actually inevitable that a split would happen, from a historical perspective the more the jewish people prolifarated the more they were devided, starting from the twelve tribes to chasisim and misnagnim and within cadissus factions itself. Its just a matter of time. And, of course, from a sociological stanpoint, its impossible to preserve unity when people do not interact enough, which iimpossible due to geogrephical and other technical diffuculties.
AntiMishichist-ProChabad
"The Rebbe This" "the Rebbe That"
"The Rebbe said This… No, The Rebbe Said That…"
When will The book intitle "Blame it on the Rebbe" come out.
Why in g-ds name most everybody take this holy Jew (the Rebbe) who only thoght for the best of every single Jew and make a mokery out of him.
[let’s leave him alone, if you want to use him, only for good things.]
Want to Make Mochlokes?
"BLAME IT ON THE REBBE"
Itzik_s
We are already split between the Schwei Camp and Osdoba Camp and it will stay this way forever – it’s a matter of fact, not a matter of opinion
___________________________________________
Really? Is any sane person going to stop talking to another sane person because they ask a different rov shylas? Because one voted and the other didn’t? Because one still holds Fisher is in cherem (in that case, just don’t talk to Fisher :)) Worst case scenario and it’s probably already happening – Schwei supporters cannot drink tap water in Osdoba supporters’ houses because it isn’t filtered.
Well, I drink only bottled water, an old habit from living abroad for many years and having nothing to do with copropods (which, by the way, comes from the words for feet and umm…dreck). So I guess everyone is welcome by me, but wash off the machloikes a/k/a the dreck first. The mikve showers are a good place to do just that. And a couple of handfuls of agitators, probably a few on each side, need to be dunked in the mikve and held down for a few hours until they get some sense knocked into them.
AntiMishichist-ProChabad
Dear DIN TORAH…
You wrote and I qoete…
"YOU GOT TO GO OUT AND BE VOCAL DEMAND FROM OUR RABBONIM THEY SHOLUD GO AND SEAT BY A DIN TORA OR ZABLO AND STOP ACTING THIS WAY!!!
GO OUT AND SCREAM AD MOSAI!!! WE SHOULD GO OUT AND GET A PETITION DEMANDING FROM RABBONIM TO GO TO A DIN TORA!!!"
Have you noticed the crime in our neighborhood lately?
Do you think that we really give a dawn about this stupidly, when our very life is in danger, it’s getting scary, not at 11pm but at 2-3 in the afternoon (most I copy and past every mugging and shooting that has been happening here? Just go to "Archives – Old News" and see for your self, acutely you don’t have to go to old news, b/c there is always new news).
And you want use to go shot about what?
Remind use!
[Most of use, the people that have jobs and a family don’t really care about your so called holy war. Guess what were feed up. All we want is the safty of our wifes and kids.
Can you help with that?!!!]
lama???
aside from the big shots who like to talk and make a big deal… the genaral mass out here in ch is peaceful… talk to their neighbors… its just a few fam’s who involve themselves in the politics that suffer everyone else is having a nice and fine life why make more problems?
vent
Pointing fingers at people is definitely the most immature way to go about life.
Glad you all have a place to vent.
BORUCH N HOFFINGER HAKOHAINE
Concerned: Why didn’t the side opposite R. Osdoba, when confronted by negative information (like affixing his name to the beth din stationery, regarding water filters, disregarding the other 2 rabbis), hold a public forum to answer all questions and clear their good name? I think it puts that side (sadly) in a bad light. Who can answer me?
Zev
I agree with Avreml
The lack Rav Osdoba’s integrity, in keeping his written promises, is even worse than all the Machlokes he made with Rav Schwei.
Nachman
DINTORAH,
You forgot that Osdoba and Marlow werer put in Seruv by a Beth Din outside Chabad. Are they included?
It is naiive to assume that a "din Torah" will solve anything as always to losing party will blame the Rabbis that they are Meshuchad somehow.
EP’s letter is a joke, as those who know Zirkind for example can testify that his reasoning for doing something is much nore reliable than Schvei (the guy who gave a Haskama to the disgusting book, "Shalita"!), and if he did not accept the supposed "peace agreement" there must be a very good reason for it.
DP is like e child in a candy store – his "sophisticated" article is similar to the editorails in Yated Ne’eman, a lot of blather but no real substance.
The Rebbe said "there are no terror brigades in Lubavitch"! That automatically excludes all of Schvei’s camp with his terrorists supporters from Lubavitch.
Yechi Hamelech!
Moshiach Now!!
May R’ Osdoba and the new Rabbonim be blessed with much success in their holy work!!
Moshiach Now!!
Nemo
It’s funny how everyone immediately goes up in arms at Dovid when:
a} He was not stating in HIS opinion that Chabad should split, rather that he had OVERHEARD others making the suggestion.
b} He certainly makes the point that he does not agree with this pretext of splitting- that was, after all, the conclusion of the article.
c} Although he treaded on some sensitively thin ice, he adamantly stated at the conclusion something which we all can and must agree on- compromise for the sake of unity.
The Jews Deserved It - By The Nazis
Nachman Write:
and if he did not accept the supposed "peace agreement" there must be a very good reason for it.
After the war, the Soney Yisroel tried to Make the Germans look good by saying the same line:
"If the Germans Hated the Jews so Much, the Jews Must Have done "something" to Deserve It"
clarification
I just heard that the reason why rabbi Osdoba rescinded the letter delaying the elections was that there was word leaked out from the Schwei camp that they planned to stop any future elections. Also there was going to be a stronger campaign to discredit Rabbi Osdoba. It leaked out to the Rabbi Osdoba people who decided that they couldnt trust Scwei. His credibility was already very poor so it was decided to go ahead with the elections.
This was leaked last night from very reliable sources
Go Ahead and Hit the Floor
Nemo wrote:
It’s funny how everyone immediately goes up in arms at Dovid when:….
That’s not because Dovid did anything wrong.
Note, that no one could disputed anything he said.
They are behaving like children that when they fall and hit their head on the floor, they Hit the Floor out of anger as though it was the floor’s fault.
NEW RABBONIM ISSUE
Dear fellow toshvei hashchunah,
it pains me to have to write this letter but as everyone one will surely agree that in order to resurrect the rabbanus in crown heights, the truth must be told and then we might stand a slight chance to move on.
in the last couple of years, the badatz has been fraught with dishonesty, corruption, nepotism and strong arm tactics. This is due to several figures that have attached themselves to one of the members of the badatz and cornered him into making decisions and rulings favoring himself and his family. Basically, these unsavory charachters hired several of the rabbi’s children to serve in position in the bais din thereby tying his hands where he can’t be objective and cannot tell right from wrong. The previous vaad hakohol enterd the picture and respectfully attempted to control the damage and tried to facilitate several reforms in the badatz but where met with underworld based opposition by the vaad hakashrus in whose interest it was to keep the rabbi trapped in his corner and his hands tied. They also garnered the support of a well heeled resident of the community in whose interest it was to destabilize that vaad hakohol after losinf an election to one of the candidates. This situation continued to smolder behind closed doors, away from the eyes and ears of the public for a couple of years. Enter the new vaad hakohol. The chairman, with even closer ties to the rabbi, through his association with his father’s business, namely giving the hechsher to his father’s business, began to solidify the position of the rabbi, in other words taking the rabbi out of the corner he was trapped in, and began trying to rehabilitate the rabbi through sanctioning his misdeeds with proclamations of support and whithwashing solutions. The rabbi fell for it hook line and sinker and then the sky fell in. The rabbi began claiming ownership of community assets, these claims backed by the chairman of the vaad hakohol. The rabbi didn’t expect the community to react the way they did. The community raised a hue and cry to the extent that the rabbi began to fear that his stature and position in the community was going to erode. That was what was actually happening. The overwhelming majority of the community although silent, was completely turn off by his unilateral rulings favoring himself and began to resist. To combat this resistance,the rabbi went out and tried to saturate the badatz with several of his yes men, dayanim that would rubber stamp his shenanigans, but again was met with resistance. The community didn’t buy it, rabbanin have to be elected to the badatz, not inducted, as was the directive of the rebbe. New ruse, get the chairman of the vaad hakahal to make an election for rabbanim, these same rabbanim who will stack the deck against the existing other rabbanim of the badatz in order that he may keep his ill gotten gains. The cairman, fresh out of the big house for his own behavior unbecoming for honest citizens, attached himself to this idea like a fly to fly paper. Being thoroughly versed an knowledgeble in illegal maneuvers, ran an illegal election. Illegal by hallachic standards, illegal by the standards of law and illegal by community standards. It was our only hope, electing new rabbanim to the badatz and reverse the damage. But that wasn’t good for the rabbi and the chairman. At first, one of the candidates stood firm and would not enter this zoo until he was assured that things would be above board. (the other two candidates long ago became pawns in the corrupton) unfortunately, after undue pressure placed on the aforementionrd candidate, he capitulated to the dishonest and corruption and is already dancing to their tune. It was out last chance, all is lost.
din tora
AntiMishichist-ProChabad wrote:
so what are u doing about the crime? instead of seating and writting here go to rubashkin and tell him instead of wasting his time with this insignificant issue he should put his energy in the crime.
What Goes Around Comes Around
Osdoba put Fisher into Cherem because he wouldn’t come to his Beis Din (Fisher Maintained that Osdoba was a Nogeah Bedevar and Fisher wanted an impartial Beis Din of Zabla)
Now it’s Osdoba’s Turn:
Schwei called Osdoba to a Din Torah and Osdoba refuses to come to a Din Torah for the same reason that Fisher used.
Why hasn’t Osdoba been put into Cherem yet?
Ra-Bonim
Nemo wrote:
c} Although he treaded on some sensitively thin ice, he adamantly stated at the conclusion something which we all can and must agree on- compromise for the sake of unity.
Nemo,
Problem is that Osdoba is very stubborn and refuses any kind of peace or compromise and even when he agrees he goes back and nullifies his own agreements.
Itzik_s
The thing is that DP wrote a whole article based on some comments made in the heat of the moment. No one is splitting except the politicians and layabouts who have been split from one another for years anyway. The 50% of people I know who did vote knew we were not voting in a perfect election, and out of the 50% who did not vote, I really only met one who was strongly against the whole idea – the others are either fed up with the whole thing, bothered by the postponement issue, have a problem with Moshe Rubashkin or one of the candidates, or whatever. One thing is for sure, we are all talking to each other for the simple reason that like most CH’ers, we have no intention of bringing each other to a Din Torah, and at the end of the day we have more in common as Chassidim and CH residents than our choices in one election.
To me and to everyone else who is normal, soon enough the way we voted will mean as much as hmm..the brand of deodorant we use – not a topic for discussion and certainly no reason to argue, split, or break off friendships.
Peace
Rav SAchwei was spotted last night at the Osdoba/Raices L’Chayim.
Was he there for Rav Osdoba or for the prestigously peacful Raiceses?
elimelech
to new rabbonim issue,
your letter is 98% accurate. the inaccuracies consist of blaming the chairman of the vaad hakahal for the rabbi’s fallacies. the rabbi doesn’t need the vaad hakahals help. his misdeeds are from his own volition. when rabbi marlow passes away he grabbed the reigns of kashruth illegally and will never let go of this windfall. it doesn’t bother him that the level of the kashrus is subpar. he doesn’t care about the machloikes in the community as long as he can line the pockets of himself and his children. his actions are being facilitated by the vaad hakashrus where some of their members are lining rheir pockets as well. the chairman of the vaad hakahal is not in this for the rabbi, he’s in this for his ego, his bad streak and wants to rehabilitate himself from his absence from society for a year and change.
The circus
To the Vaah Hakahal:
why did you let Rabbi Osdoba fill the part of the main clown in this circus? in order to further you own agenda you made him look like the biggest fool on two feet. where is your responsibility to the community? even to those who voted because of you terror tactics, bribery cajoling and illegal vote gathering, your denigration of Rabbi Osdoba is not to be tolerated. this election will never be accepted by the majority of the community. all you did was light a fire under the machloikes and made Rabbi Osdoba look like a liar. I don’t know what you can do to rectify the situation but one thing is for sure, one day you will have to pay the piper and that payment wiil not be accepted by legal tender. so forget about being bailed out by misaprpriated funds as you have been doing till now.
Bobe Maaseh
Yeh Sure,
That’s what Arafat said, why he couldn’t trust Israel and had to nullify all his agreements and bomb them instead.
Tell your BobeMaaseh to your Grandchildren.
clarification wrote:
I just heard that the reason why rabbi Osdoba rescinded the letter delaying the elections was that there was word leaked out from the Schwei camp that they planned to stop any future elections. Also there was going to be a stronger campaign to discredit Rabbi Osdoba. It leaked out to the Rabbi Osdoba people who decided that they couldnt trust Scwei. His credibility was already very poor so it was decided to go ahead with the elections.
This was leaked last night from very reliable sources
Reb Dov
TO NEW RABBONIM ISSUE WROTE:
You write with so much hate Loshon Harah & Rechilus about our Rav Shlita (Avir Shbeavirim). Why don’t you write your name and tell us why you have so much hate.
Did you loose a Din Torah?
Do you realize the grave sin of writing Loshon Harah & Rechilus about our Rav Shlita?
Why don’t you write something positive?
Don’t you have a Yetzer Tov also?
Our Rav Shlita happens to be a great Gaon and Talmid Chacham. The Rov explained all his actions according to Halacha.
Who are you to disagree? Did you go thru the whole shas yet?
I am very grateful to all those who went out to vote for great Rabonim Talmidei Chachamim.
Now that we have three new in depended Rabonim let’s hope that their will be only peace in our community.
The only possibility for Peace
Unfortunately, no one points their frustrations in the right direction. We need a grass root’s organization to show that the people care for the actuality of our community’s situation.
Number one focus on removing Yossi Brook from anything that relates to the community, the same way he removed Dovid Fisher from the community. If you will remember the Rebbe even thought he knew that Fisher controlled Reb Zalmen Shimon Dvorkin the Rebbe never criticized the Rov.
One person (preferably a neutral person) needs to go around and get a signed petition from everyone in the community. That they feel it is time that our community hechsher does not have Yossi Brook involved. Present it to the Rabonim hopefully this will give them the strength to decide how to deal with him. I believe all the rest of the issues will fall into place naturally.
Emes Now said…
Petitions are difficult because everyone disagrees on a word or two, also, in the present atmosphere there are a number of people who are too scared to sign their name in public.
Many people say the only way is to go to the courts. I am starting to think the same – Rubashkin is uncontrollable except by the courts, and Rubashkin is protecting Brook. Get rid of Rubashkin first, Brook will hopefully follow and the community can start to heal.
People will not be afraid to sign a petition that we can word very democratically. The petition will state that any head of a community organization, serving the direct needs of each individuals food consumption. We the people would like for it to require the consent of the community. The Rabbonim must see that the people really do not like Yossi Brook. Otherwise it looks like just 100 people are against him with personal vendettas.
shmaryahu
clarification: I would be embarrassed to post such a foolish comment. the agreement was signed early sunday morning. when was there time to leak it? you are stam dreying a kop and throwing sand in peoples eyes.
to reb Dov
hey Reb Dov, what is YOUR name?????? ma desonoh loch ‘lechavreich lo saavid
Itche Gershon
To Reb Dov,
I beg to differ with your post regarding what New Rabbanim Issue wrote. What was written was just the facts. There was absolutely no hate, animosity or vitriol in his letter. Just the plain truth. And I agree with you, it hurts. And it is sad. You have to realize that B’MOKOM SHEYESH CHILUL HASHEM EIN CHOLKIM KOVOD L’RAV. Only when all the facts are laid bare on the table will there be a possibility of resolution. If we allow the differences to simmer on the bottom of the pot, they will always rise at some point and destroy any forward progress that has been achieved. put everything on the table and work them out. Otherwise things will surface later on and be deal breakers. Reb Dov, this is not childs play, this is the future of our neighborhood. To pat yourself on the back and congratulate yourself about the whole course of events of the past week shows immaturity and transparent partisanship.
Clarification
shmaryahu wrote:
"that Iam stam dreying a kop and throwing sand in people eyes. "
The fact is that the Scwei people were just trying to push things off as much as they could and hoepfully never have the elctions.
Rabbi osdoba realized and asked the elections to go on.
Give it up already. Now is the time to reconciate and try to make the best of the situation. Stop threatning you are opening a new beis Din. Then forsure you will be the outcasts of the community and destroying what the Rebbe placed so mauch kochos.
In life you sometimes loose some. This one you lost, 3 years ago you won.
backbone
if robashkin/ozdoba would have any backbone they would organize an event celebrating the new
"raa-bonim"
Reb Dov
TO ITCHE GERSHON WROTE:
What Chilul Hashem?
Electing three Rabonim, Talmidei Chachamim, experts on Halacha and Geonim makes a Kiddush Hashem.
A Bais Din that will speak with one voice to the community even if they might disagree on some issues privately is a very good thing for our community.
Baruch Hashem we had Anash that care for Shalom and went out to vote.
Din Torah
Itche gershon
I agree with you. But the people are being foolled by the corruption. Especially when you see someone like Yitchok Zirkind which everyone respected and considered an erlicher yungerman being used and forced. Is he blind or what?
Why anyone will follow directives from these Rabbonim when they themselves don’t listen.
STOP
Reb Dov
Corrupted Rabbonim are CHILUL HASHEM!!!
LES MAN DEPOLIG
To Reb Dov
Listen Reb Dov,
When a Rov makes an agreement and reneges with some kind of a kakameme excuse which doesn’t even fool a second grader, THAT is a chilul hashem. The lame excuse made it even worse. It became obvious that the Rov broke his word realizing that for some reason it wasn’t beneficial for him to keep his word. When it becomes public knowledge that he he signed the agreement of his own free will but reneged under duress and pressure from his so called advisers and henchmen, THAT is a chilul hashem. You seem to be an intelligent chap, don’t play dumb with me and insult my intelligence.
V’es vahev b’sufah.
Motke Chabad
To Din Torah
The problem with zirkind is not in and of hisself. The problem with him is a a talmid of one Rabbi and totally botul to him whether he is in the right or in the wrong. Bitul is a graet quality for a Rov to have, but as the torah instructs us that in a Din torah we are obligated to LO SAGURU MIPNEY ISH, in other words the Rov is commanded to throw bitul out the window when rendering a psak. What purpose will he serve on the badatz if the only reason he was elected is to be the shlishi hamachria between the two Rabbonim??? If he can’t think independently then he is a waste of the communities money. The talmud tells us that when there was a ruling to be made amongst several Rabbanim it was always the youngest that offered his opinion first in order that he shouldn’t be swayed by the opinion of his elders and feel pressured not to contradict them.
Maskalik
to Reb Dov,
You are asking what chilul hashem? When one of the chavrei habadatz is not consulted about an election that will elect additional Rabbonim to the badatz where he is a member, when for some reason the rov does not give his approval to this election, and states so publicly, and the Vaad Hakohol tells him to stuff it, whether he likes it or not, that constitutes chilul hashem. Any kidush hashem gleaned from this election is null and void vis a vis the machkoikes and pirud halevovois this caused. Yatzah scharoi b’hefsaodo. In other words, the commission paidwas greater than the actual profit made on the trasaction
sick and tired
But its all OK for Schwei to keep changing his position on everything he says.
aBOUT SAYING YECHI AT THE END OF NE’ILA AND WRITING IT IN A LETTER AND THEN TELLING ZALMAN LIPSKIER NOT TO BE MFARSEM THE LETTER AS HE RETRACTED IT AND ONE CAN SAY YECHI.
yOu guys are crazy. You want to only make machlokos go yto court destroy the kehillah thats all you wnat to do you are a bunch of low lives. Nash Cahnina Herzog sandhhause you only wan to destroy the kehillah
emes
Maskalik aka Yanki Hertzog. You are one big chillul hasehm.
truth and honesty
Mr. Emes. I know for a fact that yanki hertzog did not write the maskalik piece. However you cant take the truth so your only defense is to attack a good person because of your own insecurities. I wonder whjo is the real chilul hashem. It seems maskalik hit home and that got you and mr sick and tired to respond with irrational outbursts. The truth has come out. I never took sides the past few years , but after reading Poltraks affidavit Ive come to the conclusion That Yanki Hertzog is really a hero who has come under attack from the thieves for exposing corruption and one day the Community will wake up and give him the credit he truly deserves.
V-yatziv
Hertzog is only to be commended for the effort he invested in making this community a better to place to live. His nemesis where actually surprised that he would have the gall to demand that community assets be returned to their rightful owners, causing them to respond in unconventional ways. They accused him of fighting the Rabbi. They accused him of embarrassing the Rabbi. Any excuse in order to distract the public from knowing the real truth. It was all a pack of lies. The only truth is that Hertzog was trying to set right the larceny that was perpetrated on the kehilla. the vaad hakashrus seeing that they had no legitimate response starting slinging fecal matter around so the people wouldn’t focus on the real issue.
It-s a Racket!
The Affirmation by Dovid Poltorak, shows a very deep running, complex and widespread pattern of corruption which implicates many different people of the entire organization.
It’s a Racket!
Dovid Poltorak’s Affirmation, actually shows, what I would call a classic case of Racketeering. Therefore I believe it will be very difficult to fight in court, unless we use RICO against them.
V-nachon
To Truth and honesty,
The posts attacking individuals is an old tactic used by the former Soviet Union. Deflect the real issue and accuse them of anti revolutionary acts and trumped up charges and crimes. Hertzog intended only the good of the Shchunah. It was the Vaad Hakashrus that felt that exposing their larcenous and embezzling ways would spell their downfall. It was then that they resorted their detractory accusations. That is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
V-kayom
I can’t believe that there are still people out there that claim that Rabbi Schwei had no say if there should be an election or not. The Vaad hakohol wants to do something that will have a material affect on the Badatz and he can’t voice an opinion about it?
Reb Dov
TO STOP WROTE:
Speaking about stop, you should stop using the Baal Machlokes’s talking points. You have no evidence to anything you are writing. Bring the evidence before you embarrass a Rov Shlita in public.
Boruch Hashem the Rov Shlita listened to the advice of those that have the Bais Din’s interest in mind and gave his Haskama for the elections to continue.
Now we have a Bais Din that G-d wiling will work in harmony.
look and u will find
where can i get a copy of this poltorak paper?
Chaim T
Satmar can split without much pain because they have two separate Rebbes that represent two separate regions – Williamsburg and Kiryat Yoel.
Married couple can split without much pain if they don’t have children in common. If they do, each child is as dear to husband as to wife. And each parent is equally dear to children.
As long as there is some fundamental commonality that needs to be divided, split is as hard as splitting Siamese twins that are conjoined in the body. The Rebbe wanted one Beis Din and everyone in the community knows that. Beis Din and 770 are fundamental institutions for the Crown Heights community and for the Lubavitch as a whole and they cannot be split. Regardless of all the differences we have.
Dovid Horodoker
âééè àìò ãàååðòï áòáåãä
2 Beis Dins = Peace in CH
2 Separate Beis Din’s is not an "Ugly" thing – It’s a Good Thing and the ONLY way we will ever have Peace in the Badatz.
B.P. and Williamsburg, each have 100 Beis Dins and we can’t agree to just have a bare minimum of 2 Beis Din’s?
Only a complete Separation can bring about peace, as Proven by Bobov, Satmar and many others.
Because they separated that WHY they are now at relative peace. 2 Opponents in the same room = endless Machlokes
It’s disrespectful to stay in the same Beis Din and FIGHT.
Their is nothing disrespectful about having more than one Beis Din and respectfully "agreeing to respectfully disagree".
Itzik_s
where can i get a copy of this poltorak paper?
_________________________________________
Save the trees. Go to any mikve in Crown Heights and you can hear all of his arguments and all of the arguments against him in your choice of English, Hebrew or Yiddish. Really fascinating stuff – I mean, it is far more worthwhile than learning, working, or trying to do something for CH and for the Rebbe.
All of the politicians here ought to be farbrenging in the mikve – with the Ty D Bol man.
sheyel brook
look and u will find wrote
Go to chabadinfo.com there is a PDF to download.
I wonder why crownheight.info and other sites did not made it available.
lets see if webby will put this comment.
stop
reb dov
you sure you want evidence? are you ready? I don’t think you are. So better keep quite.
disgusted
I agree with Chaim T. But Rabbi Scwei and his gang don’t really care about what the rebbe says. They are dead set to destroy Rubashkin and the community loosing all the grants. Schwei has allowed them to go to court. Sholom Ber Drizin has given $100,000 for lawyers.
Where is the community now? We must stand up a rid our community of this terrible machla. Hatred will destroy. Chanina acts like the biggest "frumenyak" and then he goes to court. What hypocracy. Lets stand up and rid ourselves of those machachray riv
Why the Double Standard
Rubashkin was "Removed" his position, of Vaad hakohol because he was called to Din Torah of Zabla and refused to come.
Shouldn’t Rabbi Osdoba, similarly be "Removed" from his position because he too was called to a Din Torah of Zabla and he too refused to come?
Chezky
Dear Disgusted:
You are confirming that Rubashkin and all those who voted against Halacha last Sunday and all week, have accomplished absolutely NOTHING as far as any kind of Peace in the Badatz nor any peace anywhere else.
Vayachbed Hashem Es Lev Paroh
I think that sometimes Hashem makes it very hard for people to do Teshuvah in order to show the entire world how thoroughly corrupt they are.
These Corrupt leaders end up making a very big fool out of themselves in front of the entire world when they "get caught red handed" in their corrupt plans and actions.
This is a classic example of:
"Vayachbed Hashem Es Lev Paroh"
Every time Paroh "Made a Deal with Moshe", then 5 minutes later he violated his agreement because Hashem made "Vayachbed Hashem Es Lev Paroh" so that he can make a fool out of himself and get Punished again and again and everyone can see how Corrupt Paroh is.
Hashem made him do the Craziest Things, that made no sense at all, was not advantageous to him, "was not a smart political move for him" and made him the laughing stock of the entire world and showed everyone how thoroughly corrupt he is.
The same thing happened with the Elections as Dovid Poltorak Explained in detail in his affirmation.
Rav Osdoba is Above the Law
Cops issue summonses to everyone who talks on a cell phone, doesn’t wear seat belt or drives or Red Light.
But we all see Cops Talking on Cell Phones themselves. We see them Driving without seat belts themselves and we see them regularly driving on Red Light when there is no emergency at all.
If A cop has an emergency he drives quickly and with a Siren. We see them going on Red Light regularly for no reason at all, with no siren and no rush, when when they are on their way to eat Lunch. They will even park by Pump while eating Lunch
This is because there is a "Code of Silence" and no cop is going to issue a summons to another cop – so the cops can get away with anything they want.
Cops disrespect the law themselves more than anyone else because they know, that no one will "put them in place".
I look at "The" Rav, like a "Cop", who issues summonses for everyone to appear to justice but when he is called to justice himself, he disrespects the law of the Torah which he is supposed to get others to Uphold and he refuses to be held accountable to a Din Torah of Zabla.
Most Rabbonim, don’t want to Put another Rav into a Siruv or Cherem, even when they should. For example, when the rav refuses justice by refusing to be held accountable to a Beis Din of his pears, when he, himself is called to appear to a Din Torah.
Kol Hakovod to Rabbo Schwei and Rabbi Bogomilsky and Rabbi Mangel, for having the Resolve and Torah-Bravery to show that "No One is Above the Law", not even a so called "Rav" can get away violating the Halacha.
Reb Dov
TO WHY THE DOUBLE STANDARD WROTE:
Which democratic elected Rabonim of our community called anybody to Zabla and on what basis?
I would think that if anyone makes outrages accusation they should back it up with facts.
What happened, when did it happen, date & time?
We in the community had an off of this horrible Machlokes going on for three years.
Thank G-d we have democratically elected three Talmidei Chachamim, Geonim, experts in Halacha etc.
Crown Heights is one more time a place that our children will grow up looking up to Torah scholars and becoming one themselves IY”H.
S.B.
I couldn’t read all the comments, but am frankly surprised at all the hatered directed at the author; Dovid. Dovid and Eli are two very different poeple, dovid is not condonig Elis’ behavior in this article (and certainly not condoning a split as some suggested, as a matter of fact he states his objective clearly at the end of the article, you really should finish reading it before commenting) and should not be held accountable for his brothers actions. The lies sicken me, Dovid has never been involved in any machlokes in his life and his message is a beutiful one, i believe without a doubt it is what the Rebbe wants.