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Op-Ed: The Moshiach Controversy

A note to the reader: The letter below was originally written to explain this subject matter to my own son. Now I have been persuaded to make it public. I do not intend for this to be a polemic against a particular ideology. Rather, my intention is to help those thoughtful individuals who have open minds and are sincerely seeking for a way to understand and deal with the Moshiach issue.

If you don’t fit this description please don’t read further. I am also refraining from identifying myself as the author in order not to divert attention from the ideas and arguments themselves. I will instead rely on the dictum “Kabail Es HoEmes Mimi Sheomro.”

My Dear Son,

Last night I received a very good report about you from the Menahel of your Yeshiva. I am delighted that you are taking your learning more seriously and that you are focusing on absorbing Darkay HaChassidus. May it be His will that you continue to make good progress.
You asked me to explain to you my view of the controversial Moshiach issue in Lubavitch since you and many Bochurim in your Yeshiva are confused about the matter and feel very uncomfortable about it. After the report I received I decided not to wait until you come home but to spend the time and write this letter to you with my thoughts on the matter.

Let me begin by stating that the general notion (you will see below what this actually means) that the Rebbe is Moshiach is not something new that was discovered in the late Tof Shin Mems or the early Nun’s (1990’s). It was something that I also grew up with as a young Bochur living in Crown Heights in the early Chof’s. However it was talked about on rare occasions such as at a Farbrengen, and even then, only late at night when only a few people were left.

In this context I also recall hearing at those times that really for us Chassidim the title Rebbe was more important and relevant and even perhaps more choshuv. I well understood that this was a chassidishe hergesh that, as Chassidim used to say about krias Shma sheal hamitah, it belongs “unter di koldres” – under the blankets. This means that if you recite a serious krias Shma al hamita in a way that others are able to observe you and know about it then you have defeated the whole meaning and purpose of a real chassidishe ‘krias Shma al hamitah.’

The point is that this kind of a belief is a personal chssidishe hergesh (a Chassidic feeling). A Chassidishe hergesh is something that if one truly does have this feeling it remains mostly inside of ones self and is kept within the limits of a Chassidishe environment. The purpose of a chassidishe hergish is to be a personal motivator for a Chosid to enable him to do that which is demanded of a true Chosid and not to be used as an ornament or display item. Keeping something in a pnimis does not in any way mean that we are ashamed or afraid to make it public rather it is something that is inherently meant to be internal. After all, the notion of keeping something in a pnimius is the very hallmark of Chabad avodas Hashem.

An example of this is when the Rebbe would say something at a Farbrengen but later delete it from the edited printed version. The matter was indeed appropriate for a Farbrengen but was not appropriate for a wider general audience. (It seems to me that this inclination to erase the classic distinction between the inner and outer spheres in Chassidic life is an indirect influence from the secular world where the boundaries between the private/personal and the public domains have been completely obliterated.)

The above comments do not, in any way, affect anything the Rebbe directly told us. The drive to bring Moshiach was an integral part of the Nesius of the Rebbe from day one. Over the years the Rebbe became more and more vocal about promoting the idea of Moshiach in general and in the later years the Rebbe progressed even further to state and publicize that hinei hinei Moshiach bo. However, at no point at any Farbrengen or in print did the Rebbe ever cross the line into identifying who is Moshiach, as I will conclusively demonstrate to you later.

Now let me get down to the issue itself.

There really are a number of different aspects to your question.

a) Do we believe that the Rebbe is Moshiach?
b) If the answer is yes, what does that mean and in what way is it so?
c) Is it proper to identify who is Moshiach which includes saying Yechi?

Let me begin by defining the context in which I will answer the question.

Torah is comprised of four different categories of understanding; Pshat, Remez, Drush and Sod (Pardes). Each of these is an entirely different realm and operates on different principals. Likewise, Halacha is also a separate field with its own parameters. Most of the confusion that exists today in Lubavitch concerning Moshiach stems from the co-mingling of these separate fields in Torah; Halacha, Midrash and Kabbalah/Chassidus.

The very idea of Moshiach can be viewed from the vantage point of Midrashim, maamorie Chazal, Kabbalah/Chassidus or Halacha. Indeed there are ‘shivim ponim l’Torah (seventy facets of Torah) even within each category of Torah and each one is equally ‘divrie Elokim chaim.’ However, when it comes down to the reality of this world there can be only one way for us to act in our daily lives and that is “Halacha brurah u’psuka” clear decided Halacha.

I will only deal here with two general ways to look at Moshiach one is the Halachik perspective and the other is the ruchnius i.e. Kabbalah/Chssidus perspective.

First let us look at the matter from the point of view of Halacha.

The most elaborate and clear discussion of this subject is in a Sicha of the Rebbe from Tamuz 12, 5727.

First the Rebbe emphasizes that the immutable and final word for all the Halachos concerning Moshiach is the Rambam. The Rebbe cites the klal in Halacha that where no other posek disputes the Rambam, the Rambam is the final psak halacha. And so it is in the halachik arena of Moshiach. The Rebbe also notes that since the Rambam is a sefer of Halacha “there can be no pshetlach” ( i.e. it says what it means and it means what it says). The Rebbe continues “when the Rambam writes the word ‘Torah’ he means Torah and when he writes ‘studies diligently’ he means literally learning and when he writes ‘like Dovid his father’ he means like Dovid (HaMelech).”

The Rebbe goes on to explain the Rambam’s psokim in the following two areas.

1. The order of the events as they will happen when Moshiach will begin his activity:

The first thing that will happen is;
a) yaamod Melech (a king will rise), then
b) Yokuf kol Yisroel (he will coerce all Yiden to follow Torah), then
c) Yilchem milchemes Hashem (he will wage the war of Hahsem).

If he succeeds in accomplishing these three points he becomes b’chezkas (assumed to be) Moshiach. After this if Yivne Bais Hamikdosh and then Yikabet nidchei Yoisrel (he will build the Bais Hamikdosh and then gathers in the exiles) then he is Moshiach vadia. Each of these events must be fulfilled in their entirety and in this precise order.

(Because every aspect of the Rambam is exact including the order of the halochos the Rebbe emphatically rejected the idea that the State of Israel could be considered aschalto d’geulah. Since the order of his actions must be, first yokuf then yilchem and then yivneh Bais Hamikdos and only after can there be kibutz Yisroel and the fact that the establishment of the State of Israel didn’t follow this order means that according to the Halacha of the Rambam it cannot be aschalte d’geulah.)

2. The meaning of the words in the Rambam:

a) “Yokum Ish – a person, with 248 limbs and 365 sinews and he will be seen with physical eyes and it will be possible to ‘ontapen mit di hent’ (felt with hands) and he will be seen in all aspects as a person is seen.”
b) Melech literally means a king; “men darf a kuk ton tzi halt er fun democratye.”
c) Yokuf kol Yisroel – “yederun fun yiden” (each and every Jew) ‘kefiah dosis’ (religious coercion). (The Rebbe explains that because bechira will still exist there may be a Jew who will not want to be mkayem Torah and Mitzvos Moshiach will force him.)
d) Yilchem milchemes Hashem – means literally a war “a (real) war but in a way of peace.”

Now let me turn to events that happened in 5751-2. (Understanding these developments is very important because it was the origin of the entire debacle and still underlies much of the erroneous ‘new’ ideology.) The tempo of the Rebbe’s fervor during his talks about Moshiach began to reach a crescendo. In response to this some Chassidim, (who for years had been pushing this agenda on their own anyway) especially in Israel, went overboard and openly declared that the Rebbe was Moshiach.

It was at this point that the fateful and tragic error of some (perhaps well meaning but misguided) Chassidim/Rabbonim come to be. They began to assert and then actually paskened that the Rebbe was already b’chezkas Moshiach in accordance with the Halachik psak of the Rambam and made public pronouncements about this claim setting off a world-wide furor that continues to this day. After Adar 27 all of this activity escalated even more.

Now, in order to make the Rebbe fit the criteria of the Rambam they brazenly distorted the clear meaning of the words of the Rambam (i.e. Melech – king, no longer meant king but Rabonon (which the Gemora compares to kings); yokuf – force, no longer meant force but persuasion; kol Yisroel no longer meant every Jew but some of them (a lot of them? or a majority of them? – apparently they were totally oblivious of the fact that there are 5,000,000 non-observant Jews in the US alone with a fifty percent intermarriage rate) and yilchem – war, no longer meant war but an information campaign about the seven Mitzvos for non-Jews.

In no other area of Halacha would anyone have the chutzpa to make such drastic changes in the meaning of words and argue that it is still Halacha. Let us compare this for example to a Halacha from hilchos Shabbos. The Shulchan Oruch states that one may be mechalel Shabbos if there is a sakonas ever (danger to a limb). Now, let us consider, does it really mean an actual danger to a limb or perhaps it means when there is severe pain in the limb it can also be considered a danger that permits desecrating Shabbos? Any Rov who would pasken like this would be ridiculed and dismissed outright. Danger to a limb means just that a danger to the limb and nothing less.
Perhaps even more egregious than this is that by this psak they contradicted the Rebbe’s own explanation of the Rambam in the Sicha quoted above where the Rebbe insisted that the words of the Rambam are to be understood entirely literally “on pshetlach.”
(It is no wonder that one of the mazkirim reported that when he informed the Rebbe about this psak the Rebbe commented “m’hechin dantuni? (What is the basis for this?) can one rely on all their other pesokin like on this one?”)

Bear in mind that once you permit yourself to play around with the literal words of the Rambam then the order of the halochos can also can be tampered with and then you have destroyed the Rebbe’s entire foundation for rejecting the State of Israel as aschalte d’geulah!
Many Chassidim who had adopted this (mistaken) view realized immediately after gimul Tamuz that they had made a serious blunder; they admitted it, and publicly changed their views. Others, unfortunately, did not have the intellectual honesty and moral integrity necessary to make such an admission. This was, substantially if not entirely, because they had already paskened the Rebbe was b’chezkas Moshiach so how could they now change a pask din of Halacha?

Even more troublesome for them was the Rambam’s conclusion in the very same Halacha that if the one who is thought to be b’chezkas Moshiach did not succeed in achieving this or is killed then he is not Moshiach. This conclusion, of course, they were unable to accept. Had they not ventured into the Rambam and Halacha in the first place they would not have had this dilemma but now they were stuck with it. In desperation they began to make all kinds of outlandish interpretations of the Rambam (such as, that the Rambam writes ‘if he is killed’ he is not Moshiach but, they suggest, if he dies it is not so. Plainly the Rambam uses the term “if he was killed” because he is talking about a king waging the ‘war of Hashem’ and being killed is what usually happens in a war.)

They also had to find some other contortion to evade the Rambam’s opening statement “im yaamod Melech – if a king will arise” which means that he is alive! (to use the Rebbe’s language “m’ken iym ontapen mit di hent.”)

Desperate for a way out of these conundrums, they began to cite various medroshim, the Zohar and various meforshim (the Abarbanel and others) to support their claim that a person can be Moshiach even after a histalkus. The problem is that none of these sources have anything to do with halacha. As the Rebbe said in the same Sicha the Rambam knew of the Gemorra, the midrashim, the Pesukim and all other sources and nevertheless did not pasken according to them. This means that on the level of Halacha all other sources are irrelevant and there is only one valid possibility, the psak of the Rambam.

Here is another paradox that resulted from this. Until gimmel Tamuz these very same people argued that the Rebbe absolutely must be Moshiah because the Rambam paskenes that Moshiach must be a living person and there is no one else worthy of being Moshiach in this generation so the Rebbe is absolutely b’chezkas Moshiach. The moment gimmel Tamuz occurred they immediately did a one hundred and eighty degree about-face and said no! Moshiach al pi Halacha can also be of the dead even according to the Rambam. The only way a person is able to do such an instant turnaround without a moment’s hesitation (or embarrassment) is because of the way they think about this issue. They begin with a conclusion and then try to make the Torah fit their predetermined conclusion. The dishonesty is breathtaking.

In conclusion; the answer to the first question “is the Rebbe Moshiach according to Halacha” the answer is unequivocally no, the Rebbe never was b’chezkas Moshiach according to Halacha and is today certainly not Moshiach according to Halacha, period.

With this in mind you will now be able to understand why the Rebbe never referred to this Gemora (Sanhedrin 98) ‘Im Mimesaya’ in any Sicha as a proof that the Frierdike Rebbe could be Moshiach. In tof shin yud aleph (1951) when the Rebbe wanted to explain why he said ‘Hu Yigolaynu’ about the Frierdike Rebbe he used a different Gemorah which states that “katne sheboch mechaya maysim” (even the least of you can resurrect the dead) which refers to the notion of Techiyas Hamasim as a phenomena of golus times having nothing to do with Moshiach and the techias Hamasim that will come then. Why didn’t the Rebbe simply refer to the Gemorra in Sanhedrin and say that is why the Frierdike can be Moshiach?

The reason that the Rebbe did not do this is because the Gemora in Sanhedrin was not accepted by the Rambam as Halacha and therefore the Rebbe did not want to use it to explain his position which he wanted to be possible even according to Halacha. Take note that over the course of over forty years the Rebbe never once quoted the Gemora ‘im mimesaya’ to explain why the Frierdike Rebbe could be Moshiach.
In light of the fact that according to the Rebbe, the only possible way the Frierdike Rebbe could be Moshiach is after a special nes of techias hamasim indicates that until such a nes actually occurs the Frierdike Rebbe cannot be considered Moshiach by Halacha.
Now let’s go over to the second view of Moshiach, the ruchnius one.

The Rebbe spoke about a lot of inyonim of Moshiach in regard to the Frierdike Rebbe. Clearly they were not about the matter of chezkas Moshiach or the gashmius of Moshiach but rather they were all in the realm of ruchnius. This category of Torah encompasses most of the references to Moshiach in the Sichos of the later years. When the discussion is shifted to the realm of ruchnius the whole notion is different. Moshe Rabaynu, Dovid Hamelech, the Baal Shem Tov, the Alte Rebbe, the Frierdike Rebbe all are Moshiach to a greater or lesser degree. After all, if the Nosi Hador is Moshiach then every dor has its Nosi who is Moshiach.

Considering that we have had over one hundred and fifty generations since mattan Torah there are at least one hundred and fifty Moshiachs. (Chassidus even suggests that every Jew has a spark of Moshiach in his neshomo.) Indeed it is so, and yet there is no conflict between them at all. Because in the realm of ruchnius, neshomos can be part of each other, integrated together or invested in each other and one does not exclude the other as it would in gashmius. The nitzus (spark) of the neshomo of Moshiach is invested in all these individuals. We can not know or determine who has more and who has less of this nitzus. All we can say is that our Nosi, our Rebbe, has it.

Another implication of this ruchnius perspective; when dealing with Halacha (which operates specifically in the realm of gashmius) a histalkus (which is a gashmius event) causes a major change in Halachik status. However in ruchnius, a histalkus (a gashmius event) has no effect. And this is precisely what the Rebbe said about the Frierdike Rebbe. On one hand the Rebbe said that after Yud Shvat nothing has changed but on the other hand he said that according Halacha he was obligated to recline at the Seder table.

This also explains the various remozim hints which one can find in the sichos about Moshiach which are used to somehow prove that the Rebbe himself (c”v) changed his views or that a new era had arrived and it was now permissible to identify and publicize the Rebbe as Moshiach. Once again, in these instances the Rebbe was talking in the world of ruchnius.

Remember, you cannot apply the rules of Halacha to the world of ruchnius and you cannot apply the notions of ruchnius to Halacha. Mixing or confusing the two is a fatal error which has misled many.

Understanding this fundamental ‘hanocho’ is essential to understanding the Rebbe’s approach Moshiach and most of the Sichos in that regard.

I want to add here, that in learning the Sichos one also needs to bear in mind that at times the Rebbe was speaking in terms of a bracha and a hope or wish and not a ‘metzius’ (reality) even though he used absolute terminology. Often these distinctions were rather subtle and it required some clarity (and objectivity) of thought in order to discern it. Actually, this also applies to printed (muga) sichos, particularly, those of the last years. (I can well understand that those who were at the Farbrangens in 5751 and ’52 became overwhelmed by the kind of terminology the Rebbe used in the Sichos and had difficulty picking up on these distinctions and as a result some unfortunately ended up with bizarre ideas and conceptions.) An example of this is when the Rebbes spoke about chaim niyzchiyim (ever lasting life). The Rebbe was talking about a brocho and a wish that it should become so in actuality not that it was definitely going to be so.

Another example of this is the Sicha of Shmos 5752. The Rebbe says “after we have already a king of the house of Dovid who studies Torah and is engaged in fulfillment of Mitzvos like Dovid his father….and he will coerce all Yisroel to go it in it’s ways and to strengthen its structure and will wage the war of Hashem- and he is in the assumption of being Moshiach he should immediately become the certain Moshiach.” What they won’t tell you is the beginning of that paragraph begins with the words “Yhi Rotzen” (may it be His will) this is a plea and brocho not a declaration.

Now, let’s take a look at a Sicha like (Sefer HaSichos 5752, Mishpotim) that is often used to ‘prove’ that the Rebbe acknowledged his status as chezkas Moshiach.

Here is the language of the Sicha; And so also the psak din of the Rabbonim and Morei Horo’oh among Yisroel that the time of your redemption has arrived, that “a king will arise from the house of Dovid etc., with the assumption (chazoko) that he is Moshiach” until (yet) further the situation of ‘this is certainly Moshiach.”

They try to interpret that the words about a pask din of Rabbonim is referring to the aforementioned pask that the Rebbe is chezkas Moshiach. This is patently not so. If the psak is referring to the one that chezkas Moshiach is already here then what do the words “until (yet) further the situation” mean. The Rebbe here is joining the two situations. If one (chezkas Moshiach) is here already then the second one (certainly Moshiach) is here too. Since the second scenario (Moshiach vadia) is yet to come in the future the first one (chezkas Moshiach) is also yet to come in the future. The psak Rebbe is referring to, is a psak din of Rabbonim (which the Rebbe personally asked many Rabbonim to make) that time of redemption has arrived (higiah zman geulaschem) and Moshiach should finally come.

This should serve as an example of how they try to subtly distort the Sichos to fit their preconceived conclusions and aims.

Now if we go back and ask the question “is the Rebbe, as the ‘nosi hador’ of our generation, the Moshiach of our generation”? The answer for a Chosid I believe should be yes. (Despite that fact that we find in the Sichos numerable times where the Rebbe refers to the Frierdike Rebbe as the Nosi of our generation who will lead us ‘toward’ Moshiach implying that the Nosi is not necessarily Moshiach.) But what this means is that he is so in ruchnius not Halacha and such a ruchniusdike notion has no place being trumpeted in the streets.

Much (if not all) of the opposition in the world at large to the idea that the Rebbe is Moshiach stems from the assumption that we are talking about the actual Halachik consrtuct. Indeed, most non-Lubavitchers do not know much about Moshiach or anything pertaining to ruchnius in general and certainly they know nothing about the difference between Moshiach al pi Halacha and Moshiach in ruchnius and this is where a lot of the confusion and rejection comes from. They think you are talking about Moshiach in actuality meaning b’gashmius – in Halacha, while you are talking about Moshiach b’ruchnius. This disconnect has caused most of their antagonism and resulted in much of the trouble we have encountered.

One Litvishe Rosh Yeshiva wrote in a letter that his main objection to the claim that the Rebbe is Moshiach is that it conflicts with the psak Halacha of the Rambam. The moment you tell them that we agree that the Rambam is the final Halacha but we believe that the Rebbe is Moshiach b’ruchnius the whole issue becomes moot. However, because of all the shouting and publicity about who is Moshiach no intelligent communication has been able to take place about this point to this very day.

Will the Rebbe be Moshiach in actuality? As Chassidim, we have a right to hope that it will be so (I once heard that this was the terminology the Rebbe himself concluded with when he orally explained to someone the issue of v’hu yigolaynu; “meg zich a chosid azo vintshun un geloiben (a Chosid may permit himself to wish and believe that it will be so”) ‘V’anaan ma ne’eneh a’basray.’ But remember all of this remains a hope and ‘chasidishe hergesh,’ as explained above, no more and no less. By no more I mean that it can never rise to the level of a belief. A belief is a certainty and an absolute while a hope is wish.

Now, if you will ask how is it possible for this hope to actually become a reality? The Rebbe himself gave us the answer. If a miracle of techias hamasim will occur before the time of Moshiach (and completely not related to the geulo and the techias hamasim that is related to it) then he will indeed be ‘of the living’ and then he can become Moshiach. In fact, the Rebbe goes even further in the Sicha of 12 Tamuz 5727 and says that all the steps of the coming of Moshiach listed in the Rambam can happen in one moment! However, the fact that a miracle has to happen in order for a person who is not alive to become Moshiach means that until such time that this miracle actually happens the person cannot now be considered Moshiach according to Halacha.

Is Moshiach here now? The Rebbe in the Sichos seems to say Moshiach is here already and all we need to do is open our eyes. (You should know that this same language was already used by the Rebbe Reshab and the Frierdike Rebbe many years ago.) The answer is that the Rebbe (and the previous Rebbes) is talking about a ruchniusdike phenomenon (about which we also have precious little understanding) and we accept that it is whatever the Rebbe says it is. But if we are asking what the status is according to Halacha, Moshiach is absolutely not here. We are not even at ‘aschalte degulah’ on the contrary; the fact that some people claim that we are in ‘aschalte degeulo’ places us, according to the Rebbe, in the darkest part of golus.

Is one able to feel geuloh and Moshiach now as in no other time before this? The Rebbe said yes and so it surely is, if (and ‘if’ is a very big word) we open our eyes.

Have any of us actually opened our eyes? I don’t want to judge other people but let me say that I am very very skeptical of anyone who goes around and trumpets such a claim. The old rule should apply here; der vos zogt halt nisht derby; der vos halt derby zogtnisht (the one who says is not there and the one who is there does not say).

At this point it is also important to note that making the issue of the Rebbe being Moshiach (in any which way) into an ikar in our world view and daily life is in itself a gross distortion of Torah and Chassidus. The Torah not only teaches us about the Will of Hashem but also prioritizes these values and practices. This system of priorities is a most critical part of Torah and any time we change or even mildly tamper with this delicate balance we wreak havoc on all of Torah. For example, if one does not know that an essa takes priority over a lo saseh you end up with an entirely different Torah life. This same kind of gross distortion of the priorities of Chassidus is being perpetrated on us by these people.

There are two additional concepts taken from the Sichos of the Rebbe that are also misused to justify some of the new self-made ideology, Dor Hashviyi and Chaim Nitzchiyim.

Contrary to the common understanding, Dor Hashviyi does not refer to a literal generation of twenty five years (or so) nor does it refer to the literal life span of one individual. The proof for this is in the very same Midrashic source of this concept quoted in the Maamar. The Midrash states that Moshe Rabaynu was the one who ushered in the Dor Hashviyi and brought down the Shchina to this world. From that time onwards (over 3,300 years age) to this very day we are all still, as the continuation of the Dor Hashviyi, struggling to finally complete the task of bringing the Shchina down below “ten tefochim!” No where is there a suggestion that we have entered into an eighth generation. Obviously, the idea of Dor Hashvyi is not meant to be taken literally in every aspect.

It is likewise concerning the concept of Chaim Nitizchyim (everlasting life). Chaim Nitzchim and the idea of Histalkus are two matters that seem to be completely mutually exclusive which has led some of the extremists to formulate radical (to put it mildly) new ideas about Gimul Tamuz. However, as usual, with some additional knowledge this too can be put into some perspective. The Noam Elimelech (in Devorim, Voeschanan) asks this exact question. “If a Tzadik has Chaim Nitzchiyim how can there ever be the Histalkus of a Tzadik?”

The answer he provides is that the devakus of the Tzadik to Hashem, which is what gives the Tzadik Chaim Nitzchiyim, becomes momentarily disrupted (he doesn’t explain how) and at that moment the Histalkus takes place. I am not suggesting that this is exactly what the Rebbe meant because I recognize that these matters are far above me and I don’t really know much about such lofty matters.
But what these examples clearly demonstrate is that we must never take the liberty to project our ideas on the holy words of the Rebbe and to avoid at all costs distorting and polluting the pure and holy ideology that was given to us by the Rabbayim.

While mentioning ideology I want to point out that Chassidim always knew that “nisht ales ken men farshtayn, un nisht ales darf men farshtayn.” The Rebbayim, in all generations, said things that were beyond us and our meager comprehension and Chassidim accepted it with tmimus. Since gimul Tamuz we find ourselves in an unprecedented situation which has raised many new questions.

The best reaction to this is to admit that we indeed have questions but since we don’t have to understand everything it does not bother us and certainly it does not interfere with us continuing to live our lives as Chassidim and doing what the Rebbe instructed us do. The worst possible reaction (and unfortunately this has become quite prevalent) is for us to make up our own answers and create new ideology.

Now let us look at how the Rebbe reacted to those who began to publicly identify who they believe is Moshiach. This also included singing about the Rebbe being Melech HaMoshach.

Here are a few (of many) of the Rebbe’s own written responses to this behavior.

From a tzetel from Adar I 5752:

“There is no obligation to search for who is Moshiach etc. but there is a positive mitzvah of the Torah to love each and every Jew, and to avoid fights etc. absolutely – and certainly not to intentionally do the opposite.”

From a Tzetel, Iyor 5744:

It seems that he is acting as if he doesn’t understand what I answered him before that it is possible to do considerably damage, G-d forbid, to Chabad and to Hafotzas Hamayonos by writing about etc. – and which my intention was primarily to him v”dal.
I hereby warn him that he should stop speaking or writing and certainly not to distribute and certainly not to print concerning the subject of Moshiach – whether in his name or in another name, by his Shliach or something similar, – nor through any other trick and not in any shape or form. And if G-d forbid, he will do anything like this he should know with certainty that this is a war against me specifically and generally.”

Here is a message that the Rebbe sent to one of the very first and most prominent promoters of identifying the Rebbe as Moshiach (DN) during Tishrie of 5752:

“I hereby prohibit him from being active in matters of Moshiach now and in the future!” Did this stop him? No! He continued to do these same activities to this very day.

Here is what the Rebbe told Shluchim at the last Kinus Hashluchim (and the last Sicha directed specifically to Shluchim) before the Rebbe became ill parshas Chaiya Sara 5752:

In the unedited galley of the hanacha submitted to the Rebbe this is what was written “every Shliach needs to prepare himself and to prepare all of the Jews in his place and his city etc. to receive Moshiach Tzidkaynu by explaining the subject of Moshiach and who is Moshiach in a way that is acceptable to everyone according to his ability to understand.” The Rebbe crossed out the words “and who is Moshiach” and inserted the words “as is explained in the written Torah and the oral Torah.” In the next part it said that every aspect of Shlichus should be ‘openly’ permeated with how this leads to Moshiach. The Rebbe crossed out the word ‘openly.’

Could the Rebbe have been any clearer than this? Moshiach should be the inner motivation of everything we do but it should not be evident on the outside. This one word deletion of the Rebbe should be the guiding principal of our entire approach to the Moshiach issue.
The worst part about the ‘meshugayes’ (and I use this term advisedly) of identifying the Rebbe as Moshiach is that it has utterly destroyed the credibility of the entire Moshiach campaign. As we know the Rebbe desperately wanted us to teach Yiden about Moshiach. The only way it is possible to do this is if we present the idea of Moshiach to them as a part of their own heritage which they should know about. People are very open to such an approach. Now however everyone is convinced that our intention is not really to teach people about Moshiach because it is their heritage but rather we are trying to sell them something of our own – our Rebbe. As a result, the Moshiach campaign has about the same degree of credibility as a salesman selling a product.

Another egregious casualty of these irresponsible Chassidim is the indisputable fact, which the Rebbe himself stated more than once, that many people (it would not be an exaggeration to say hundreds of thousands) have been turned away from learning Chassidus and having any association with the Rebbe and Lubavitch because of the Moshiach controversy. There were those who tried to deny this years ago but today anyone who does not recognize this fact is simply living in a fantasy world. The accumulated damage to the Rebbe and Lubavitch from all of this is absolutely incalculable and they bear the full responsibility for this. It is appropriate to apply here what the Rebbe said about those who proclaimed that it is aschalte d’geulo “they are the ones delaying the geulah from happening.”

To sum up this point; this whole misguided effort of identifying Moshiach has to its credit the destruction of the credibility of the Rebbe’s Moshiach campaign and the alienation of many thousands from the Rebbe and Chassisdus. It is not unreasonable to suggest that this mistake has actually delayed the coming of Moshiach!!

Finally, I want to explain to you additional reasons (besides that it is a way of identifying Moshiach and leads to all the negatives the Rebbe himself attested to) why it is wrong to say yechi. The most important reason is simply that the Rebbe never told us to. The Sicha that the Rebbe said about Yechi haMelech was said in 5746. The Rebbe never once instructed Chassidim from that day on to say it and indeed it was never said by anyone (until after Adar 27th).

Had the Rebbe wanted us to say it he would have given us precise and unambiguous instructions to do so as he did with declaring ad mosai or other such declarations. Furthermore, what the Rebbe was talking about in the Sicha is only about the words ‘Yechi HaMelech’ it has nothing to do with the new formula that was hatched by a few overzealous Chassidim. The very notion of Chassidim doing things like this on their own is utterly foreign to Chabad.

While it is true that the Rebbe encouraged the singing of Yechi during his illness the fact remains that no one received any explanation or guidance from the Rebbe about this. (This is particularly significant to those who attended to the Rebbe during this period and understood the unique condition and situation that existed during this painful time.) As such, one can only attribute it to the extraordinary circumstances and conditions of the time and surely it cannot serve as a precedent to reverse everything the Rebbe said and taught up to the 27th of Adar.

I would also note the answer the Rebbe gave to one of the Shluchim during the month of Iyar 5752 (1992) when he was asked “is it necessary to indicate who is Moshiach” the Rebbe vigorously shook his head to indicate no! This is further strengthened by the fact that we witness daily the destructive impact it has on our task of hafotzas hamayonos and this is the criteria that the Rebbe established in his tzetlach and instructions us prior to Adar 27.

Now, even if, for what ever reason, one could justify singing/saying yechi before gimmel Tamuz after gimmel Tamuz simply has no place. It has no logical meaning and no ruchnious value. Let me explain this a little further.

In the sicha where the Rebbe spoke about Yechi haMelech he said “which by this we mean hokitzu v’ranenu shochne ofor.” This seems to be incomprehensible. If the intention is that the Melech needs to be given more life how can he be a shochne ofor (dead) and if he is a shochen ofer then he needs techias hamasim not additional life?

The answer can be found in the explanation according to Kabbalah that the Tzemach Tzedek gives to the idea of Yechi haMelech. He says that Yechi refers to the sefira of bina and Melech is the sefira of Malchus. Usually for any hashpoah to flow from Bina to Malchus it must pass through, and become limited by, all the intervening sefiros of Daas, Chesed, Gevurah etc. and that is how the limitations of the world comes about including the limitation of life and ultimately death. However, there can be a special situation where Bina and Malchus are attached and the flow goes directly from Bina to Malchus without any tzimtzum at all.

It is from this second unlimited process that chayim nitzchiyim and techias hamasim both come from. When the words Yechi and haMelech are contiguous to each other it represents this connection and process.

Now you can understand why the Rebbe used the idea of Yechi haMelech to mean hokitzu v’rannu shchne ofor because this is where techias hamasim comes from. However, when the words Yechi and Melech are separated by other words as it is in the contrived Yechi declaration the entire meaning of the phrase is lost. This is the difference between a Rebbe (who knows what he is doing) introducing something or Chassidim (who don’t know and yet audaciously) do it on their own.

Let me emphasize again that besides all of the above the most important objection I have to pointing to the Rebbe as Moshiach, in any which way, is that (as the Rebbe said) it alienates people from the Rebbe and Chassidus. Talk to any Shliach and you will hear the same sad story. Fortunately, today more and more Lubavitchers realize the huge damage that has been caused by all of this and have to a greater or lesser degree stopped promoting this. Unfortunately, we still suffer considerably because of the past and from the few remaining irrational fanatical zealots.

I know this is much more than you were expecting and probably a little over your head but once I got started I wanted to do a complete job. You don’t have to understand all of it now but I am sure that bit by bit it will be helpful to you.

This Op-Ed reflects the views of its author. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CrownHeights.info nor of its Editors.

A reader that wishes to make his or her voice heard on any topic of their desire is welcome to submit his or her Op-Ed to News@CrownHeights.info.

128 Comments

  • 3. Also a parent wrote:

    Excellent! The only problem I see here is that the fanatics will not accept anything that is said here. So therefore nothing will change, except to get worse.

    I’m printing this for my children to help them answer the questions they are asked on this issue as they interact with others.

  • 5. Mendel K. wrote:

    One big misguided article
    although people have the right to disagree on certain issues chayim nitzchiyim, publicizing etc.
    but to point out some mistakes/lies or whatever you want to call it
    1)Did the Rebbe not accept the psak that he is bchezkas moshiach and then in a sicha later (i think p’ mishpatim) say that was what brought about the un’s decision to destroy a large amount of ammunition?
    2)Did they not sing Yechi when Dvar Malchus was distibuted in Iyar 5751??
    3) What about the plain Yechi (without MHM) that was said by all the rallies
    4) Being a young shliach myself I know like you said yourself what alienates people from lubavitch is the Moshiach CONTROVERSY not to say that the crazy Women united for etc. dont also but the main alienation – so to say – is definitely due to the CONTROVERSY and public dirty laundry being hung in the media. The average Joe has less of a problem with the Rebbe being Moshiach than he has with the fact that lubavitchers curse each other out in the media
    5) Just about the fact of calling the Rebbe MHM – It is known that Rabbi Hendel said that he has a sofeik if after the rebbe was paskendto be ‘bechezkas moshiach’ if one can say the rebbe’s name without saying MH“M
    6) What about the fact that the Rebbe agreed with a full nod TWICE to put his name in a Kehos sefer as K”K ADMU“R MH”M?
    7) What about all the horoas in 5753/4?
    If i have more koichos I’ll continue later
    Anyway Moshiach Zol Kumen Yetz and we will have Achdus Bkorov Mamosh! Vhu Yigaleinu

  • 6. Mommy with a question! wrote:

    Wow. It’s good to hear from the other side. A bit overwhelming, but I’m happy to see someone come out and say something. As a BT, who is very confused about the whole matter, I appreciate reading this and trying to help my kids understand.

    Qoute:

    “While it is true that the Rebbe encouraged the singing of Yechi during his illness the fact remains that no one received any explanation or guidance from the Rebbe about this.”

    But I have a question, doesn’t the fact that the Rebbe encouraged the signing of it validate it?

    Can’t I say yechi, out of love of the Rebbe and out of yearning for Moshiach??

  • 7. outraged wrote:

    a menuval bershus hatorah. very eloquent and articulate, but any person who can say un kein bushos that he doesn’t believe that the rebbe is moshiach is not a chossid and it just goes to show that he is more worried about having big numbers in his chabad house and his own koved and yeshes than emes. Since when is Chabad about apologetics?!? Do you take down your mechitza also b/c it turns people off? Aren’t you going hepech the whole idea of shlichus, b/c of your mechitza this person will never step foot in a orthodox shul again. I’m not saying you have to shove it in peoples faces, but to so blatantly say that the Rebbe’s not Moshiach and to deny it completely??? your article stinks of an agenda from beginning to end. I don’t know how you can consider yourself a chossid if you don’t think that your Rebbe is Moshiach. Just because you can write well and twist things to prove your point does not make you the authority on this issue. And there is no point in writing counter-arguments b/c obviously you already made up your mind.

  • 8. Levi New wrote:

    it’s exactly the same shtusim that ****** from England preaches (wouldn’t be surprised if it was him) I listened to his tapes and read all his stuff way back and looked up the sichos and found that he twisted the Rebbe’s words and misquotes big time – och un vey to such kfira and noch breish glei on CH.info.

  • 9. peacemaker wrote:

    Each and everyone of us may have their own opinion and we must respect each other; as we have been taught when speaking about Rabbi Akiva’s talmidim. Living B’shalom is most important.
    Chazak V’amatz. Moshiach Now!!

  • 10. Shimon Michal wrote:

    Outraged:
    “ I don’t know how you can consider yourself a chossid if you don’t think that your Rebbe is Moshiach”

    Dear Outraged, can you please show me at least one document, whether it be from a Letter (Igros) a Sicha a Mammer, even Likuttei Diburim, that validates your above statement?

    Thank you.

  • 12. astonished!!! wrote:

    a “lubavitcher” shliach says the rebbe is not moshiach ,not even bechezkas moshiach???????[he lost ALLhis marbles!!]

  • 14. cher wrote:

    i don’t like this article. Firstly, I would have to double check every fact myself, secondly the fact that a person can state things so blatantly and surely, and start differentiating things so clearly between halacha and ruchnius as he calls it, is a bad sign. My opinion is, that these matters are above us, we don’t understand everything, and we don’t need to try to. It’s nice though that he took the time to explain it to his son.

  • 15. yaacov wrote:

    do you believe the rebbe was ill??? how did he save the yidden by hurricaine andrew?????? the rebbe knew exactly what was going on and he approved of yechi. write your name coward! I don’t publocize my opinion but if I did and wrote an article o would face up to it and say who I am.

  • 16. Anonymous wrote:

    Mister “expert”
    You sound like a self hating Lubavitcher. Had you come out with this in 5753, everybody would have bashed you. Now in 5768, people have become confused how to approach moshiach/yechi. However, in truth, most Lubavitchers who came out against saying yechi after gimmel Tammuz still believed and probgably still do, that the Rebbe is moshiach.

    Seperating Chasidus and Halacha is nonsense. It is one torah. Sometimes things are only revealed in chasidus and not yet in Halacha, but to say things such as that the Rambam who says “If he is killed, then it was a false alarm” refers to the Rebbe, is destroying the idea in Chasidus also.

    You sound like you always had your own agenda. You probably never liked the idea that the Rebbe is moshiach. I don’t know, but maybe deep down you’re afraid of Moshiach coming (for whatever reason). You may not admit it, but by the Rebbe being moshiach, it makes moshiach more real (and perhaps frightening).

  • 17. shua wrote:

    Shocked!!!!!!!!!
    It’s just unbelievable how someone could make himself so oblivious to so many facts, including the Rebbe’s encouragement of the p’sak that he is b’chezkas moshiach,and the approvement of the printing of Seforim by Kehos with the title MH”M on them, and the encoragement of the singing of Yechi VIA SATELLITE TO THE ENTIRE WORLD on yud shevat 5753!

  • 18. lawyer wrote:

    What a warped mind!!!

    He would make a good lawyer.

    EVERYONE belived that the REbbe was Moshiach before Gimmel Tammuz?
    What about Menchem shmo?

    Basically, he is saying that he does not believe teh Rebbe is Moshiach.

    Is taht what you call aC hosid? SICK!@!

  • 22. zak wrote:

    Hmm, well I give you credit for taking the time to write such a long article.

    To be truthful, I did not read the article to its conclusion.

    And I will explain why.

    I was reading along nicely until I came to theses sentences

    “Why didn’t the Rebbe simply refer to the Gemorra in Sanhedrin and say that is why the Frierdike can be Moshiach?

    The reason that the Rebbe did not do this is because the Gemora in….”

    And at that moment, I realized that you where not a credible source.

    How do you know what the Rebbe had in mind?

    How do you know with a CERTAINTY what the Rebbes intentions where?

    You can say “its likely” or “its highly probable” this was the Rebbes intention.

    But you can not state it with a certainty.

    That alone clued me in to your agenda.

    You are willing to make leaps of logic.

    To connect dots that may not be there.

    And if that is the case, I have no interest in hearing what you have to say.

    To summarize: I find it ironic how you accuse others of twisting the facts, when you alone are just as guilty.

  • 23. Sicha wrote:

    The sicha about Yechi Hamelech was actualy said in 5748, not 5746.
    (This just further underscores this man’s lack of knowledge)

  • 24. nauseated wrote:

    :(
    Oh yee of little faith…
    its horrible enough taking away your sons free choice and ability to perceive this issue from a Torah perspective by superimposing this brilliantly conceived and obviously well thought out piece of fiction you so eloquently dub a “letter” but why pray tell did you feel the need to share this chamas molei tzoah on the internet?? is there not already enough garbage floating around here in cyberspace???

  • 25. Berel wrote:

    AM HARATZUS M’DOREISA!!!!
    Those p’shotim in the Rambam, the Rebbe himself said!!!

  • 26. NIce Job wrote:

    Absolutely facinating and informative.
    I am impressed that as a father you took the time and trouble to write such a treaste to your son; an example to us all.
    One thing though, as a non speaker of Yiddish it is often frustrating to try to extract the meaning from such a full piece peppered with Yiddish instead of a clear translation.
    I am endeavoring to learn the ‘mama loshen”, however in the short run I feel the loss of some meaning.
    All the same nice job.

    It’s disappointing that people always feel the need to critcize an op-ed piece.

  • 28. A FATHER-NOT A PROFESSOR wrote:

    My Dear Son,

    I love you very much and I am very tired, I got up @ 4:15am and I have no koichos to go through a pilpul and explain all the sources.
    (i doubt you want to hear it either)

    I want you to know that I recieved from Bubby with Bubbie’s milk, the Rebbe is the one that Hashem has sent to lead the world to the coming of the Moshiach, and who will in fact be Moshiach.

    It says that ‘a maid by the yam suf’ saw more than Yechezkel Hanavi’-never ridicule the pure belief of Chasidim, even if you can’t find an echo in your own heart, realize that there is something special there.
    Realize that it is a supernatural force that bonds us together, and all the winds of the world haven’t touched the boundless energy and warmth that the Rebbe’s love to us, and our love for him, brings. All the years of darkness and all the waters of tzaros and all the winds of confusion cannot detract one iota of the love and emuna of a chasid, wherever and whenever he may be.

    I am not like Bubby, and the environment I grew up in is different thn the one that you do. I wish I could convey to you from all my heart, like Bubby does. But I will tell you what I know- even though a kli shain aino mivashel- YOu are not blind, you hear Some people say, “these people are crazy” and you hear some people say “these people are apikorsim”.

    I want to tell you one sentence the Rebbe said, I think it was on Chol Hamoeid 5746, “Every chossid believes that his Rebbe is Moshiach”.

    This is a normal thing.

    But there was an argument about whether this belief is for everyone to publicize or not.

    The Rebbe told rabbi lipskar from south africa, “it depends on the conditions of the time and place. Chabad of that place should decide.”

    So I wouldn’t publicize my beliefs to the people in my shul, unless I felt that they had enough understanding about the Rebbe. I would think that another chosid who the Rebbe sent somewhere else has the authority to make a differect decision.

    I have noticed, and I think this is important, ‘students who have not fully been trained’-and try to stuff this idea down people’s throats-THAT IS WRONG. I also have noticed children, who are now grown men, having been accustomed to their parents ridiculing other shluchim who do publicize the Rebbe as being Moshiach- going one step farther than their parents- they think that this is a wrong belief- and against the Torah. THIS IS WRONG.

    The Frierdike Rebbe said, “emuna was lost and was also cut off from their lips” Why was the Emuna lost? Because it was cut off from their lips! They stopped talking about it. So learn about our Rebbe, learn about Moshiach, and teach others too, and soon, as the Rebbe says, you will “live with Moshiach”- May he be revealed Now!

  • 29. Sholom wrote:

    To the caring & responsible father and Michanech:
    Don’t you have a little respect for yourself and your judgements about your Bochur’s thinking?

    I am sure if he’s doing well in yeshiva, by now he most probably heard of Reb Yoel.

    Do you think if he had to put your judgement of the Rebbe’s sichos and Horoos side by side with Reb Yoel’s he’d give you equal status?
    Talk about confusing a generation…

    Reb Yoel wrote in Kovetz Moshiach Ugeulah his opinion on the whole matter which cancels out everything you write. And he maintains everything he wrote up until today (btw the Heora in the kovetz was after his To-inu)

    What are you trying to accomplish over here? If you think you can set straight misguided Lubavitchers with an Op-Ed article on the internet rather than in a shiur Liyuna in the Rebbe’s sichos I don’t know what kind of Michanech you are and says much about your kavono amitis bifrat if you think deeply what the Rebbe would tell you today about printing such articles.

    To repeat the Rebbe’s words: just like we believed until now that Nosi Doreinu is Moshiach Tzidkeinu we will continue – may he Redeem us from this bittere golus NOW!

  • 30. snag wrote:

    This op-ed only vindicates what Dr.
    David Berger has been saying all along: that there is no such thing
    as a Lubavitcher non-meshichist.

  • 31. Stop Fighting!! wrote:

    For goodness sake people…if you don’t like what is written don’t read it (as the author put in the preface)!

    The one thing that I can promise you is that if you people keep on fighting Moshiach (and no, I will not publicize my opinion on this matter) will not come in our lifetime.

    Yom Hadin is coming soon – enough with the machloikes already!!!

  • 32. Pesachya Herskovits wrote:

    “and the approvement of the printing of Seforim by Kehos with the title MH”M on them“

    Actually the Rebbe never approved that. the first sefer that had that title is the sefer ”besuras hageulah“, not on the ”shaarblatt“ but in the ”pesach-dovor”.

    When you ask the menahel of Vaad Lehafotzas Sichos (Z.C.) how this came about, he’ll tell you that he had asked Rabbi Groner to ask the Rebbe if that would be ok on the shaarblatt and/or in the pesach dovor, and (this was after AdarI 27, 5752) the Rebbe shook his head no to shaarblatt and yes to pesach-dovor.

    When you ask Rabbi Groner he’ll tell you that this never happened!

    When you confront Z.C. with that, he’ll tell you that Rabbi Groner told him back then already that he will deny this.

    If you want to believe Z.C. go right ahead. I’m not one of Rabbi Groner’s fans, but in this I do believe the Rebbe’s secretary over Z.C.

  • 33. Wake Up Yiden! wrote:

    I am close to some mekuravim and they are really confused about what is going on in Lubavitch.
    And you know who is confusing them so called “Lubavitchers”. One started wearing a yechi yarmulka and took it off because “Lubavitcher” were deriding yiden who were anouncing Yechi.
    Another was getting answers from the Rebbe through Igros Hakodesh. At a certain point he became close to a certain “Shliach” who plays on both sides of the fence and when I told this mekurav months later(after he got positive Letters) the Rebbe could still communicate with us through Igros kodesh he told me Nonsense the Rebbe is gone R“L… ”Meharsayiach Oomechorvaiyich Meemcha Yatzaioo” Those who knock down and destroy will come out from Your own…

  • 34. Pesachya Herskovits wrote:

    First I would like to applaud crownheights.info for publishing this letter.

    To the author I say: Bravo!

    I would like to answer the question of the “mommy” above.

    During the Rebbe’s Farbrengens the Rebbe would explain difficult Rashi’s, Gemoro’s, Zohar’s etc., some Sichos were long deep pilpulim, over a few hours (comes to mind a hadron on Makkos, 10 Shevat 5726, which went on for a few hours). Obviously when the chozrim had to write down the Sichos afterwards, they very often would have questions on some of the points the Rebbe made. Maybe a Gemoro that implies differently, perhaps a Teshuva of the Tzemach Tzedek says differently etc. They would write down all their questions and the Rebbe would answer all their questions one by one. These answers were then incorporated into the Sichos, and many many footnotes in Likutei Sichos are such answers – clarifications – of the Rebbe himself about the points he said in the Sichah.

    For one year the Rebbe was encouraging the singing of yechi. This seems difficult to understand based on all the Sichos and Tzetlach of the Rebbe up until AdarI 27.

    But unlike after a Farbrengen when some difficult points weren’t understood, in this case noone asked the Rebbe, and it wasn’t possible bederech hatevah for the Rebbe to respond and clarify what exactly this encouragement means and how far it should be taken, and certainly not if also after his Histalkus Chassidim should continue to do so etc. etc. etc.

    In such a case the Torah approach is “ein lecho boi elo chidushoi”, meaning that you could only take as far as the chiddush itself is, and not any step further, which basically means that singing of yechi was encouraged by the Rebbe only in his physical presence in 770 when he came out on the balcony.

    Not after every Tefillah, not after every Krias Hatorah, not after Lecha Dodi, not under the Chuppah, not at every Bris etc. etc. And especially not after the Rebbe’s Histalkus when the simple translation of these words poshut don’t make any sense (yechi leolam voed for those who actually understand loshon hakodesh means an ongoing situation – Chas vesholom, Rachmono Litzlan that this situation should continue leolam voed!) If we don’t have clarification what the Rebbe meant by his encouraging yechi in his presence for sure (kal vechomer) that we have absolutely no clarification and therefore no basis whatsoever to continue saying yechi today in totaly different settings.
    —————-
    In conclusion I would like to add one tzetal which the author didn’t list: An answer to S.B.Volpo in the month of Shevat 5752, one month before the stroke: Mikvar onisi loi sheze merachek yehudim michassidus. this answer by the way undermines their entire “shittah” that times have changed

  • 36. call me what ever u want to call me wrote:

    its so funny how all these people who are writing negative comments sound like they dont have the time or the brain power to to certify or disprove this mans claims

    this man explained his points with logic whether they are distorted or not is to be proven but rebutting his arguments with a notion that society subscribed to (i.e that if you dont believe the rebbe to be moshiach then your not a chosid, which is a debate for itself , and as far as i know there is no manifesto of what you HAVE to believe in order to be a chosid ) not only does not disprove any of his points, but in one sense proves his point that people will abandon all logic for the sake of their personal sentiments
    before you accuse the author of an agenda or disqualify his accuracy READ through the entire letter check the facts (and all the facts) for yourself and bring logical rebuttals to his arguments, that is if you want anyone to take you seriously and not mistake you for some nut who had his head and whats inside it turned upside down and in the need to vent!!!!!!!!

  • 37. Annn57 wrote:

    I would like the author of this piece to look at a Halacha Sefer Sdei Chemed Pas Hasodeh Ois Ayen… Sd”c seems to hold that its a big zchus for Moshiach to come from the dead. FYI i really don’t believe either way and i think its a big waste of time,really don’t have an agenda.Just replying from a academic point of view.
    (P.s it talks over there about the names of Moshiach)

  • 38. wondering.. wrote:

    about the parshas chayei sara sicha,and it not being the edited version,is there a source for that? ive never seen it printed any other way.
    and also i understand the emphasis in taking rambam literaly, but what about taking the rebbe literaly? when the rebbe said something, did he not mean it seriously? as a chossid, how can one, not take every word of the rebbe at verry least on the same level as rambam, this is your REBBE! so i dont understand what you’re trying to say, if you claim to be a chosid, and a person with chasidishe hanhagos, youre contradicting yourself.

  • 39. sa wrote:

    notice the deffference in the comments,
    some people actualy sound intreligent and rational.
    some sound completely brain washed and devoid of intelect, a product of our “wondurfull” yeshivah system

  • 40. False article with big agenda wrote:

    Sorry to burst the bubble of all those who are excited about this article, however, I must say besides the fact that there are
    1) many lies in the article. I can prove each one of them.
    2) A lot of Am Horatzas.
    3) A clear agenda, he just tries to trap you in the beginning with the words of having an open mind.
    4) And yes, I did read the whole article.

    To quote just some examples: 11 Elul, 5751 the Rebbe says that “Nasi Doreinu was the Moshiach of our generation and was revealed in full force.” Check the tape (or the video).
    Erev R“H 5747 or Erev R”H 5748 the Rebbe says about the Tzemach tzedek that chassidim in his time believed (NOT HOPED) that he is the Moshiach of the generation.
    Everyone should the sicha of “Kuntres Beis Rabeinu Shebebavel”. and everything will be clear.
    I can give a list of dozens and dozens of sichos and maamarim that contradicts almost eveything in the article above, but those interested should start learning the sichos themselves and those who do not wish to learn this wo’nt help them.

  • 41. smartened up wrote:

    Silly me! I was lead to believe that every Chossid has to believe his Rebbe is Moshiach… otherwise, why be his chossid???

  • 42. moshiach now wrote:

    i am not here to take either side…i think the whole issue has caused enough sinas chinum…who gives a damn who moshiach is, just let him come. saying that though… if i remember correctly, i learned in sem, (from a not a lubavitch rabbi), that every sect must believe that their rebbe is the moshiach. this means to say that satmer should proclaim that their rebbe is the moshiach, belz their rebbe, and lubavitch-our rebbe. it doesnt mean he is or isnt…but it never hurt anyone to have faith. so stop all the bashing…america prides itself in freedom of speech, you can say you believe in something or you don’t. but u don’t have a right to bash down anyone else because of their beliefs…

  • 43. liberal feminist wrote:

    your’e becoming like the republicans and democrats trying to find dirt on each other’s parties. believe what you want and respect others for what they believe as well…stop being like a crown heights sqaure head and look outside the box. look at the whole picture.at this rate, we’re never gonnu know who moshiach is because who would want to lead such a messed up people?!??!

  • 44. A Shliach wrote:

    After eading the article .. I realized why your son is confused, and so many … its because so many (like this author … claims to know how the Rebbe was thinking etc.) Stop it …. you have no clue what the Rebbe meant!

    My dear friends…. was the Rebbe Chezkas Moshiach … 100% … this isn’t up for debate…… Read the Rambam who says you have permission to think who can be Cheskas Moshiach in your generation.
    Is the Rebbe Moshiach ….. You can darshen all you want from today until tomorrow …. until the Beis Hamikdosh is rebuilt, and the world is exactly as the Rambam declares it has to be …. NO ONE IS MOSHIACH!

    Simple…. I do not need 30 feet of legnthy explanations.

    So for this father, or son .. and all those who was inspired by the above thesis …. please …. do all you can to bring Moshiach!

    To identify who Moshiach is …. (this I agree with the author) remember the Rebbe’s own words .. “Who ever places an address on who Moshiach is .. and it drives 1 person away from the ways of Chabad Chassidus – IS NOT MY CHOSSID!”

    Therefore …. nice pilpul … but really empty (as we used to say in yeshivah .. u made popcorn!)

  • 45. anonymous wrote:

    you don’t need to scream it from the rooftops, wave a flag, make a shvil, etc.
    maybe that gives chabad a bad rap.

    but you can have yud ches yud in your heart, and that’s a beautiful thing.

  • 46. Aghast! wrote:

    Re: “Levi New wrote”

    Most writers to the blogs give a reasonable argument for their views – unfortunately, Levi is not only insulting to others having a different view but did not read what I wrote – I stated that I was educated in England – not that I was born or currently live there.

    The other point demonstrated is that no one else’s views count – it’s a bit like mob rule (as mentioned above “you would have been bashed”).

    Because any practicing Lubavitcher holds different views to their own does not make them self-hating. It does, however, undermine those holding less than (halachically) acceptable views – challenging their ideas and possibly forcing them to have to rethink how they have lived and behaved.

    I am not a preacher (I note that those expousing that the Rebbe zy“o is Mashiach are not considered preachers) but surely living a true Yiddishe life, irrespective of your own personal views, must take priority.

    The letter to the son (and it’s not mine) demonstrates how one should handle the issue – whether a firm believer, a quiet faithful follower or do not consider the the Rebbe zy”o was or could be Mashiach (you might like to refer to the Rambam about the mistake that both Christianity and Islam made in this regard – since people like quoting the Rambam).

    We have 613 mitzvos – Gemorrah – Shulchan Oruch – 13 ikrim (tennets of faith) — not one of these suggests that there is any mitzvah to believe that someone is Mashiach (Rashi states that a talmid has reshus to believe his Rosh HaYeshivah could be – it is difficult to extend this belief following the passing of the Rosh HaYeshivah) — and certainly to quash the views of those not accepting such a belief – verbally or physically – almost certainly comes under an issur d’Oreissa where violence is used.

    All I ask is please do not destroy Lubavitch – we have enough to do without introducing serious machlokes into our lives.

  • 47. am a man not a machine wrote:

    its so funny how all these people who are writing negative comments sound like they dont have the time or the brain power to to certify or disprove this mans claims

    this man explained his points with logic whether they are distorted or not is to be proven but rebutting his arguments with a notion that society subscribed to (i.e that if you dont believe the rebbe to be moshiach then your not a chosid, which is a debate for itself , and as far as i know there is no manifesto of what you HAVE to believe in order to be a chosid ) not only does not disprove any of his points, but in one sense proves his point that people will abandon all logic for the sake of their personal sentiments
    before you accuse the author of an agenda or disqualify his accuracy READ through the entire letter check the facts (and all the facts) for yourself and bring logical rebuttals to his arguments, that is if you want anyone to take you seriously and not mistake you for some nut who had his head and whats inside it turned upside down and in the need to vent!!!!!!!!

  • 49. sam9 wrote:

    ATT: ZAC
    all the guy is doing here is applying a basic talmudic principle of analyzing why a tana or amora or even rashi chooses to bring a certain argument or proof over a seemingly stronger proof or argument to the rebbe sichos and i see nothing wrong with that

  • 50. We need peace wrote:

    Without a leader here with us physically (and no, I am not going to get into that argument now) it’s pretty confusing.
    On each side there are strong points, but what I don’t understand is, what is the point of going back and forth, bashing, insulting and mocking??
    We need Moshiach, it doesn’t matter who he is. We need shalom in this world!
    Moshiach NOW!!

  • 51. yoel wrote:

    One problem. Rav Hirshprung and Rav Solovetchik ZT”L amongst others both paskend that AL PI HALOCHO one may believe the Rebbe is moshiach EVEN AFTER 3 TAMMUS. So if he wants to join the am haratzim like Berger fine, but certainly lubavitch websites shouldn’t publish his……

  • 52. S. wrote:

    Does saying yechi and that the Rebbe is moshiach bring the geula closer or not? It seems to have only brought more controversy and division-which is not how to bring the geula shlaima.

  • 53. Pesachya Herskovits wrote:

    Earlier I had written the following statement: “in this case noone asked the Rebbe, and it wasn’t possible bederech hatevah for the Rebbe to respond and clarify what exactly this encouragement means”.

    Someone confronted me and asked “hayitochen to say that the Rebbe couldn’t clarify, are you saying the Rebbe was limited?!”

    Without going into an argument if a Rebbe could be limited or not, which is not the issue here, I just have clear proof that it wasn’t possible (perhaps because of our sins, but it’s still the fact): On 19 Kislev 5753 the Rebbe sat for six hours (yes that’s SIX HOURS!!!) on the balcony trying to get some point accross to the Chassidim, and after six hours of anguish the Rebbe returned to his holy room, without noone knowing until this day what it was what the Rebbe wanted to tell us….

  • 54. Jake wrote:

    To the author:

    Thank you for the guiding light. This puts some of the very fundamental issues into perspective.

    Moshiach Now!

  • 55. moishy wrote:

    If he is/was we must wait until he decides to fix the world and if he’s not/wasn’t we have to wait for the real Moshiach to fix the world.

    So in either case we have to do what we all have done and WAIT!

    If you want to believe the Rebbe is Moshiach fine!

    If you want to believe the Rebbe is NOT Moshiach fine!

    Let everyone believe what they want to believe and stop trying to persuade the other.

  • 56. fotter zisse wrote:

    This is a letter to your son?
    Rachmono litzlan, what type of relationship do you have. I don’t think that there is anything to applaud in terms of the time spent pontificating. Be”h somewhere in the system of our Yeshivos, he will find a mashpia who will with true chassidishe hergesh bring him closer to the young bochurs own truth. Chanoch le’naar al pi darko!! I don’t think that pontificating to ones child is al pi darko, though you may feel very holy and self righteous.
    from a fellow shliach, who doesn’t have all the answers but loves to farbreng with his sons.

  • 57. Pesachya Herskovits wrote:

    After reading some of the comments here, I came to the conclusion that either people didn’t actually bother reading the entire article or are having some disability preventing them from understanding the written word.

    The author himself explains clearly in the second part why it is OK (yes OK) for a Chossid to hold that the Rebbe is Moshiach. His main point is that the Rebbe never was and for sure isn’t the Cheskas Moshiach of the Rambam. Chassidim in all generation believed that their Rebbe was Moshiach hador, not because they saw in their Rebbe the signs of chezkas moshiach of the Rambam, but rather for Chassidus reasons. When the Rebbe spoke about the Frierdiker Rebbe as Moshiach he

    a) didn’t call him Melech HaMoshiach, but Moshiach shebedor

    b) didn’t say that he is saying so because he fits the description of the Rambam, but rather based on the concept that the Nossi hador is the yechida shebedor who is the Moshiach shebedor

    c) when saying that the Frierdiker Rebbe will lead us in the Geulah, and asking the question how could that be after the Histalkus, he did not answer it flippantly that the Gemoro allows for such a possibility (a Moshiach min hamesim) but rather said that Techiyas hamesim of individuals happened in the past and could happen again, and therefore the Frierdiker Rebbe could get up betchiyas hamesim and lead us in the Geulah

    So therefore the author is saying basically:

    You want to say the Rebbe is Moshiach, go right ahead, but say in the same manner the Rebbe said it – after all you are basing everything you are claiming on the Rebbe and on Chassidim of past generations:

    Say the Rebbe is Moshiach because that what you were raised with by your mother and bubbe (I liked that one above)

    Say that that is bepshitus by Chassidim

    But do not try to kvetch this Chassidishe Hergesh into a Halachah in Rambam, because by doing so you are only complicating matters at best and undermining and contradicting the Rebbe’s understanding of this very Halachah in Rambam!!!

    So please everyone, just calm down, sit back down, take the 15 minutes it will take you the read the article in its entirety, use your brain (yes that is ok, the Rebbe once commented that Torah is above Sechel not heipech hasechel [=opposite seichel]), and you will see that some of these comments just don’t make any sense and accuse the author of things he never wrote or implied!!!

  • 58. Parent wrote:

    You choose to give your son a “luftige Rebbe, a luftige Moshiach, and a luftige chassidishkeit.”

    With pride, I give my child a Rebbe that is lived a breathed every moment, preparing the world to be mekabel pnei Moshiach tzidkeinu.

    And the reason why many will not go about disproving all of the aforementioned claims, is because it would take many many hours of learning, starting from the chinuch many children receive at home.

    If anyone is interested in learning the sichos about why we identify the Rebbe as Moshiach, I am happy to set up chavrusos!
    Please post your interest, and I will try to get in touch with you.

  • 59. ayl wrote:

    i didnt read such a verbose hisnagdus.
    bottom line the rebbe encouraged yechi and gave brochos to spread that he is moshiach.

    if you want to go back in time the rebbe said dont call him rebbe too.
    you are trying to rewrite history with the genereation that never saw.

    just google “rebbe rosh chodesh kislev 5753”

    and draw your own conclusion.

    traditionally chasidim went to great lengths to defend their rebbe’s opinions and not the opersit….

    and it says in the yerushalmi that any one who says opersite of your rebbe you are allowed to them them a mamzer.
    ask yourself why are you nameless?
    dont you want the zechus?

  • 60. a little shocked wrote:

    First of all, doesn’t the whole basis of this letter – separation between physical and spiritual – contradict the common theme between almost every single sicha, where the Rebbe repeatedly says that physical and spiritual parallel, and if something exists in one it MUST be in the other, because it is ONE Torah from ONE source?
    And on the issue itself, of believing that the Rebbe is Moshiach, you don’t need fancy logical arguments from Rambam or Gemara or anything like that to understand how or why it is so. We know one thing – as a chossid, your job is to believe that YOUR Rebbe is Moshiach. It says so in gemara, and the Rebbe quotes that piece of gemara in a footnote on the sicha of parshas shoftim, 5751. The Rebbe says how the students of each yeshiva would believe and publicize that their Rebbe was Moshiach, learning out their Rebbe’s name from a posuk about Moshiach. The Rebbe continues to say that WE chassidim should do so too, and he continues to do so himself, showing how you can learn out the Frierdiker Rebbe (the Rebbe’s Rebbe) is Moshiach from pesukim with his name.
    So if the Rebbe of the generation is the Moshiach of the generation, and our generation (as the Rebbe has said many times) is the last generation of golus and the first generation of geula, how can you not believe the Rebbe is Moshiach and still call yourself a chossid? Do you think there is a new nasi? Do you think there is no nasi? Do you think we are not the generation of moshiach?
    What other choice do you have? You want to say its b’chezkas, vadai, neither – whatever, go ahead. But if youre a chossid of the Rebbe, you know the Rebbe is Moshiach.

  • 61. My son asked me a question wrote:

    My son also asked me a question and perhaps someone can help answer it?

    My son asked me:

    “If we can say that ”The Rebbe is Moshiach only in RUCHNIUS“ but not in reality then – ”

    “Perhaps when we say ”Shema Yisroel Hashem Elokeinu Hashem ECHAD“

    ”Perhaps it’s “ECHAD” only Beruchnius but not in reality? “

  • 62. anon wrote:

    “the fact that a person can state things so blatantly and surely, and start differentiating things so clearly between halacha and ruchnius as he calls it, is a bad sign.”

    ???!!
    I am speechless!

  • 64. plain stupid wrote:

    “As such, one can only attribute it to the extraordinary circumstances and conditions of the time”

    Excuse me????

    Are you suggesting that the Rebbe didn’t know what he was doing? Do you know how many answers the Rebbe gave during this time with just a nod?

    Ask “those who attended to the Rebbe during this period and understood the unique condition and situation that existed during this painful time”

    In addition, you write:

    “I would also note the answer the Rebbe gave to one of the Shluchim during the month of Iyar 5752 (1992) when he was asked “is it necessary to indicate who is Moshiach” the Rebbe vigorously shook his head to indicate no!”

    Why is this response valid and the other not?

    Whichever way it is we still do not have to fight! There are ways to express your opinion with dignity. It is NEVER ok to be violent and to degrade another.

  • 65. zak wrote:

    ATT:sam9

    You write:

    “all the guy is doing here is applying a basic talmudic principle of analyzing why a tana or amora or even rashi chooses to bring a certain argument or proof over a seemingly stronger proof or argument to the rebbe sichos and i see nothing wrong with that”

    Sorry but that is where you are wrong.

    It is amazing to me how many people do not have the ability to read critically.

    While I was under the impression that I made my point quite clear, perhaps i did not do a good enough job.

    Maybe if I use some more capital letters you will get the point.

    So everyone read carefully.

    PEOPLE CAN SAY THE REBBE PROBABLY MEANT THIS, OR HE PROBABLY MEANT THAT, OR IT IS LIKELY THAT THIS WAS HIS INTENTION, AND THAT IS OK.

    THE PROBLEM IS, THAT THEY CAN NOT SAY IT WITH A CERTAINTY.

    AGAIN, THE KEY WORD IS CERTAINTY.

    And just to make my point clear, I will give a example.

    Suppose you saw me walking down the street with a neon yellow shirt on.

    Can you state with a CERTAINTY that I like neon yellow shirts?

    And you can even back up your argument, by showing that I wore a neon yellow shirt.

    So I must like it.

    So Is this a good argument?

    Well, to be truthful, that argument sucks. If you where to use it in court, you would be laughed out.

    And I will explain why.

    Maybe I hate neon yellow, but I am wearing for a different reason, for example:

    Maybe, I am doing laundry, and this is the last shirt I have left, therefore I am wearing it.

    Maybe, I was just held up by gunpoint, had my shirt stolen, and was only able to find this yellow one.

    Maybe, I am color blind and I really think I a m wearing a light blue shirt.

    I hope you get my point, you can say it is LIKELY, or PROBABLE that I like neon yellow, But YOU CAN NOT SAY IT WITH A CERTAINTY.

    I hope that was a sufficient explanation.

    In short, if you cant be sure of something 100 percent, use a qualifier.

  • 66. Why we must have Achdus wrote:

    Dear Fellow Lubavitchers,

    This article was beuatifully written. We all believe (deep down inside) that the Rebbes entire being and purpose on this physical world was to prepare the world for Moshiach. We all have different levels of understanding on this subject and each of us has a spark of moshiach regardless of affiliation or denomination.“every jew has a spark of moshiach”.

    The real problem is not what one side or the other side thinks. Its the external fights to prove who is right.

    For example, the rebbe gave instructions to certain people to do certain things , which did not mean it was right for everyone to do.

    I once heard that the rebbe informed some chassidim that at some specific time, had they all declared Ad mosai moschiach would have come.

    Each and every one of us MUST have Bitachon that we are doing what we can to bring moschiach. We need to live it,bring it, do it every day.

    The problem is the force that is being used, the threatening, the fights.

    I am not a shliach , through my work I educate people on mitzvos,shabbos,tzedakah. There must be a ladder for people to climb, not a pole vault that makes them crash.

    The moschiach agenda cant be forced, it must be taught properly and explained and by telling people to get involved with Moschiach when they know nothing about shabbos is confusing.

    The issue is changing our outlook from Uforotzdo of the rebbes campaign and changing it to Uforotzdo- we know who moshiach is and you dont.

    The rebbe gave us a recipe for us to bring moshiach yet the cake is still in the oven.

    Moschiach will come when we COMPLETE our part of ahavas yisroel,and bringing jews closer to yiddishkeit. Keep in mind we still serve hashem.

    We are focussing on our reward instead of the competition. Lets compete and win this battle.

    Every day we say “ ani mamin be’emunah shleima b’vias hamoschiach” Lets do our part and G-D will do his.

    Respectfully

    A.Y.

  • 67. Knowing the EMES-Truth wrote:

    very nice,

    [BUT] it’s like talking to the walls,
    all the above information has been around forever. Those who truly wanted to seek the truth, found it.
    Those who haven’t are not interested in the truth. [besides that putting this up gives those that lie another opportunity to preach their lies and propaganda to further their agenda. Those who do lie and preach etc… don’t have not moshiach or the Rebbe in mind, the real issue has nothing to do with either moshiach or the Rebbe. It’s ACTION that speaks louder then word].

    Living a non truthful life is much easier. People can live a whole life time not knowing or caring for the Truth (whether in be the issue above or any other issue). Like the saying goes “ignorance is bliss”.

    Like the Rebbe obm writes in Hayom Yom:

    “Had the [Alter] Rebbe not inserted the three words ”b’midat emet leYaakov“ (”according to the attribute of Truth unto Yaakov“), he would have attracted fifty thousand more chassidim. But the Rebbe demands the trait of truth.”

    It’s no surprise that you can even have good people (who mean well) that don’t care enough to live a full truthful life.
    [being truthful does don’t mean a person thinks he is perfect, no human was created perfect), what living a Truthful live means, is that a person is always (24/7) thinking “am I doing the RIGHT thing?” always judging yourself (24/7) making sure he did and will do RIGHT (I believe it’s called Cheshbon Nefesh). In plain words being honest to yourself in your own four cubits. Thats hard to do (and must people would rather avoid it).

  • 68. Aghast! wrote:

    A Rebbe in ruchnius only makes sense if you say that we follow the Rebbe through his teachings.

    A Rebbe in ruchnius makes no sense.

    I base this on the following:
    (1) A tulmid is like a child of their rebbe (small “r”) and is learnt from various places – Aaron’s children being referred to as Moshe’s offspring and Elisha referring to Eliyohu as “father”
    (2) No where will you find the idea that a departed person can be called Mashiach (whether such a person returns ot fulfil such a role does not make them a Mashiach at this time – it’s not down to us).
    (3) The title Mashiach is very specific – it means only one thing – that this particular person is physically annointed – I would refer you to Nach (only carried out where it was vital to establish the malchus) and Hilchos Malochim.

    Sorry if I sound like a misnagid (and I’m sure I will be called other names) but whether you like it or not, we live in a physical world, bound by limitations, following a Shulchan Oruch dictating physical laws. What kavonos are applied in doing mitzvos is a much more complicated matter – but it’s more about bring G-dliness down to this world than anything else.

    I look forward to the many comments that I’m sure are going to follow.

  • 69. eli wrote:

    lets see now….aymasai kasi mar lichsheyafutzu etc….the Rebbe explained many times that chassidus is not just the catalyst for geula but it is itself m’ain the gilui of geula, toroso shel moshiach…and the whole point of its revelation from the Bal shem and onward is the Geula….not to mention the multitude of times the Rebbe asserted without any room for doubt that this is the last dor of golus and first of geul…so my friends if anyone thinks chabad’s purpose is anything but geula and gilui moshiach…and if anyone thinks that shluchim are anything but shluchim of the only individual in Jewish History who undertook to yacuf kol yisroel (and yes the Rebbe said and its written in a mugadike sicha that we already have the yamod melech and he was already m’netzzaich in many aspects) after the churban..then you are in serious denial about reality…its easy to put the blame on “crazy meshichists” and the “chilul lubavitch” they do…easy to be in denial but that fact is most (not all) that dont believe have not learned the sichos in depth and just want to stay safe and comfortable and not go out on a limb…the fact is its when there is machlokos and sinah from both sides that creates the chilul not the etzem emuna…you think it really makes a difference to the assimilated jew what you believe or communicate about moshiach?? Tefillin is crazy! Lulav is crazy! everything to them is bizarre, it only matters whether you do it with devarim hayotzei min halev. The whole attack on mishichistim is INSECURITY, DENIAL , and a failure to study the Rebbe;s works objectively. But its ok my friends whether you know it or not were all fulfilling the kavvana. And when the world really starts to shake every I gaurantee that all the anti meshicistim will change their tune. good luck and lets hope we all make it to the promised land!

  • 70. Mi Sh-omro wrote:

    The anonymous author ends his introduction with “Kabail Es HoEmes Mimi Sheomro.”

    Perhaps before he again begins undertaking such an energetic effort he would do well to assign his name to his efforts. After all, what does Pirkei Avos say about someone who quotes in the name of the sayer ? Isn’t the opposite implied?

    The Rebbe himself defined what is a pashqvil and this ‘manifesto’ fits the description.

    So, why are so many people up in arms here?

    Stop reading shtus like this and instead really learn Torah mi mi-sh’omro and you’ll have your own understanding of the issues.

  • 71. A fellow Meshichist :-( wrote:

    So sad, not one intellectual rebuttal. NOT ONE. The man brought proofs and intellectual thought processes (like our Rosh Hayeshivas do every day-the certainty issue gets to me a little, but far from discredits this article{due to lack of intellectual arguments against it}) AND NOT ONE “MESHICHIST” HAS TAKEN THE TME TO ANSWER INTELLECTUALY EACH POINT HE BRINGS DOWN. Is there no intellectual break down for this mans points?

  • 73. so close wrote:

    thanx alot sir, just as i thought i had the whole topic down pat you go ahead and write this article. now i have nothing. but thanx for trying. it was quite confusing really.

  • 74. abc wrote:

    i don’t understand, can someone please answer this question:

    can a person who passed away be moshiach? if yes, where does it say that, and how is that different from the christian belief that J.C. will return etc etc ?

  • 75. sto pratzent wrote:

    This is too painful to watch.

    The Alter Rebbe was moser nefesh so Chassidic thought should permeate Lita of all places specifically to achieve the exact opposite of what is taking place here.

    Someone writes something intelligent and non threatening and everyone starts screaming. Not saying you have to agree with him, but this hyper-hysterical reaction is an embarrassment.

    His point is quite simply that there is the way things are in the esoteric realm and the way they manifest themselves down here on our physical and material level. They do not contradict.

    There are hundreds of examples of this. Two that come to mind that the Rebbe brings are Nodov V’Avihu and kom rabbah veshochat lr. zeira. The point always being that the way something exists on a spiritual and esoteric level is “nishtalshel”, it manifests itself in a specific manner here on the physical plane. This is not a contradiction. It is merely a different form of expression so to speak.

    What is surprising is that this is a very basic concept in chassidus without which it is extremely difficult to understand anything learned in chassidus.

    That’s the real tragedy

  • 76. mashpia wrote:

    why do we need to know WHO moshiach is? as long as he’s comin, its all good. i dont care WHO He is, as long as Moshiachs on his way…

  • 77. Stilll confused wrote:

    This is not meant to be an article but to the comment “do you believe” the rebbe was ill the rebbe is a person but more than a person he is atzmus mehus in a GUF now the rebbe can choose which situations to put that guf in to say the rebbe cant get ill is to deny he is guf ill does not mean he lost control ch”v it means we have look into ourselves and see why the nossi hador is like this the rebbe was in control at all times everything was done from his will whether we understand or not
    to say the rebbeis or isnt our place to decide its unclear what the rebbe wanted in this regards but one thing is sure ahavos yisroel was on top of the plan ahavas chinam not sinas chinam

  • 78. Yungerman looking for Shlichus wrote:

    The article was extremely well written, and when i get a chance i will go through every sicha and gemara quoted within to verify the source however at this present moment i believe as follows.. Every lubavitcher chossid in his heart of hearts believes the Rebbe is moshiach and cannot fathom it any other way, yet we as chassidim do not need and do not look that moshiach is a maale for the Rebbe to us there is nothing higher than the Rebbe and that is who we want if he is Moshiach which i believe he is than good but what i want most is the REBBE plain and simple. in regards to yechi my personal belief and my intial reaction is one of discomfort and with that feeling the more i think of it the more i feel, it is wrong today like it was wrong in nun-gimmel nun-daled. I find that most people who say yechi and take the moshiach to the extreme are a the misguided and uneducated people of Lubavitch. they allow their regesh to get in the way of fact and our to stubborn to admit it. It is ahrd for me to further explain my opinions but i hope that those among us ( among us because let us not forget they are a part of us) who are misguided will be led back to the proper realization of their mission which is not yellow flags and loud music rather it is the process of brining every single jew to torah and mitzvos in a way which is pleasing for them as well as on their level not shoved down their throats topped off with a hat and capote but brining them closer to yiddeshkeit in small but meaningfull strides.

  • 79. Zalmans wrote:

    “If we can say that ”The Rebbe is Moshiach only in RUCHNIUS“ but not in reality then – ”

    “Perhaps when we say ”Shema Yisroel Hashem Elokeinu Hashem ECHAD“

    Nebach on your son that he cant differentiate between yechi and shma! Rachmana litzlan! you make berger look good.

    Shma is a MITZVAH DI”ORAYSAH! Yechi is a takonohs Yoel, Shpringer, Antiyan. It depends on what minhag you have.

  • 80. Wish to be a shliach wrote:

    I am 99% sure that all these comments were written by CH’ers that never had and still dont have a clue about the Rebbe and Lubavitch. Not one of these comments were written by Shluchim who think about the Rebbe’s interests every day of their lives and through every challenge they expirience on Shlichus.

    The Shluchim are the Chassidim that should be the voice of Lubavitch.

  • 81. moshiach wrote:

    i dont understend

    the rebbe himself said to the CNN reporter

    on the last dollar sunday the reporter asked the rebbe ARE YOU THE MOSHIACH ?

    and the REBBE SAID NO I AM NOT .
    all the rest is nice talk

  • 82. assertive wrote:

    ATT Pesachya Hershkowits

    What position are you in to think you have the right to limit the Rebbe????????
    WE not the Rebbe are limited and yes even after 6 hours. it was OUR chisoron!!

  • 83. Aghast! wrote:

    Eli

    You have effectively stated that the Rebbe zy“o was Mashiach and that he fulfilled some of the requirements for this purpose. It means there has to be a ”second coming” to complete the task.

    This is the basis of Christianity and how the Rambam describes the mistake of the Christians and Moslems.

    My views are not insecurity or denial – they are the conservative, mainstream ideals held by Yidden throughout generations.

    Whilst we must go out to increase Torah and Mitzvos to make our world a fitting place for geula, let’s keep sight of what’s important and not the irrelavent and possibly, ossur.

  • 84. to shimon michal wrote:

    Shimon Michal wrote:
    Outraged:
    “ I don’t know how you can consider yourself a chossid if you don’t think that your Rebbe is Moshiach”

    Dear Outraged, can you please show me at least one document, whether it be from a Letter (Igros) a Sicha a Mammer, even Likuttei Diburim, that validates your above statement?

    Thank you.

    answer:
    the rebbes words chol hamoed sukoss tov shin mem vov:
    every chosid believes that his rebbe is moshiach

  • 85. Zalmans - Help I need clarity! wrote:

    Another issue.

    The yesodos that yichisim is built on are very week. As portrayed in the above talk backs. No one has given a clear, comprehensive reason to why, and how we know any part of mishichisim is part of Chabad Chasidus.

    Neither is there any clarity as to exactly what the belief is. Is it that the Rebbe is alive? Is it that the Rebbe is moshiach or chezkas Moshiach? Do I have to say yechi, or just believe it? If saying yechi is appropriate; how many times do i need to say it? When do I need to say it? Do I change minhag bias haknesses (i.e. before and after an aliyah) and nusach to incorporate it into davening?

    When Yichisim is a central part of yiddishkiet then all of yiddishkiet has very weak and shakryu foundaition, all of yiddishkiet is hergesh based and follows no logic.
    “Tefilin arent logical.” That argument is amharatzes and dumb. When a torah yid uses the word logic he means Torah logic using the torah, shulchan aruch and normative halachic Judaisim as a guide.

    What is the proper nusach for yachi is it hamelech or melech?

    I was in the crowd when the rebbe came out in 5753 and there were many who were singigng “yechi adoinaynou moiraynou virabainou, aya ya ya ya ya ayah ay yah aya ay hai!”
    The rebbe new exactly what was going on (Even daas tachton agrees with that. Medical profesinals agree that stroke viktims in similar cases to the rebbe’s are very aware of what is happening.)The rebbe was clearly encouraged them. (I wstood near reb Dovid Raskin Shy“i and heard the nusach!) Maybe that is the proper nusach?

    Help I need clarity! im ain daas havdalah minayin!

    To make yichisim work within the Jewish belief system you need to do away with most excepted torah norms. On top of that you have no clear shitah, you cant figure out amongst yourself and even on a personal level what exactly you believe. This is the perfect recepie for a new kat and its a matter of time before rachmanah litzlan you’ll author a ”bris chadash.”

    I just wish that you used micky mouse or some other character for your moment to rally around. why are you shlepping the Rebbe into this?

  • 86. DallasJew wrote:

    Totally agree with the author – this son has a great dad and will likely walk the right road.

    Shame on all of you naysayers. Twisting the rebbe’s words to suit your pathetic agenda..by golly how could you?

    Bottom line is the Rebbe never went out and clearly proclaimed himself Moshiach period..end of story!

    How dare you decide what the Rebbe means/meant within those few rare hidden instances?? Our resident skilled mind readers say otherwise. Yup, he meant this and he meant that..and sure we can take this from that sefer and blablabla. What Chutzpa – its mind boggling. For shame!

    By the grace of G-D thank goodness there are so many normal Chabadniks and most Sheluchim (90-95% I’m told) stay clear of this controversial mindless inverted rethoric that says we must tell the world and my poor neighbor next door that the Rebbe is/was Moshiach.

    Thanks you CH.Info for posting this – hatzlocho to all of you shelechim out there that really really stand out and do what our Rebbe told us too. I”YH we will all greet Moshiach soon, now!

  • 87. sam9 wrote:

    att: zac

    am sorry ur example is hideous and while u write about peoples not being able to read critically it seems that u cannot read the first paragraph

    “I decided not to wait until you come home but to spend the time and write this letter to you with MY THOUGHTS on the matter.
    the author did not write this as a psak he is writing his logical conclusions and what he THOUGHT to be the right answers to the questions he had learning the sichos and so on, no where in his letter does he make of himself for some sort of authority

    as to ur ridiculous example why dont u try applying that same logic next time u open a talmud see how far you get, because at the end of the day how did the gemara know (and please dont bring roach hakodesh into this) that this is the reason this tana brought THIS proof or argument or how could u be ”medayek“ in a single word of rashi (on issues which may even affect the ”halacha” down the line) at the end of the day how could anybody know what he was thinking?

    the only reason i could think of that u brought this example is because u dont understand the principle which i mentioned

    so let me explain it simply:
    when a tana amora or rashi says something it is because he wants brings a point across and is trying to explain us some thing, and that is the ONLY reason the tana says what he does when the questions arises if he is trying to explain us something seemingly there is a better way of explaining this to us so why did the tana choose explain it that way
    the answer to such a question is that if the tana would say it in any other way it would either hinder our understanding or might cause us to come away with the wrong idea, how it so is up to logic to determine (its not a guessing game) yes we can never be certain but logically an answer can be found
    and that is exactly what the author analyzes the rebbes sicha by simply applying this simple principle

  • 88. Proud Snag wrote:

    Wow, all Lubavitchers aren’t crazy nuts after all. Well, actualy from reading the comments a lot are. But I never heard a more normal explnation of the belief of the Rebbe being Mosiach than this.

  • 89. Aghast! wrote:

    Correction

    A Rebbe in ruchnius only makes sense if you say that we follow the Rebbe through his teachings.

    A Mashiach in ruchnius makes no sense.

    I base this on the following:
    (1) A tulmid is like a child of their rebbe (small “r”) and is learnt from various places – Aaron’s children being referred to as Moshe’s offspring and Elisha referring to Eliyohu as “father”
    (2) No where will you find the idea that a departed person can be called Mashiach (whether such a person returns ot fulfil such a role does not make them a Mashiach at this time – it’s not down to us).
    (3) The title Mashiach is very specific – it means only one thing – that this particular person is physically annointed – I would refer you to Nach (only carried out where it was vital to establish the malchus) and Hilchos Malochim.

    Sorry if I sound like a misnagid (and I’m sure I will be called other names) but whether you like it or not, we live in a physical world, bound by limitations, following a Shulchan Oruch dictating physical laws. What kavonos are applied in doing mitzvos is a much more complicated matter – but it’s more about bring G-dliness down to this world than anything else.

    I look forward to the many comments that I’m sure are going to follow.

  • 90. TSElliot wrote:

    The thoughtful, organized and relatively articulate article (“letter”) is simply one man’s spin on confusing and seemingly contradictory statements or happenings. There is not, can not and will not be one irrefutable truth in this matter until the ultimate revelation – which is another way of saying irrefutable, universal truth. Anyone who argues in this matter without acknoweldging the possiblitity for another’s equally anchored perspective is not being honest.

    As long as the debaters stay true to facts, all can filter from the facts and connect dots as they wish.

    Genearally, to educate – i.e. teach in a way that there’s lasting absorbtion by the student – it is best to have the student experience that which is meant to be absorbed.

    To do justice to this Moshiach/Rebbe matter one must learn, first hand, any and every “source” that is used to support or direct a position or opinion (and there sooo many anchored sources offering conflicting potential conclusions).

    Teaching a conclusion is not good education. Teaching the source material and allowing the student to formulate an opinion and either defend it successfully or not is part of a good educational process. But doing so requires inner strength – allowing for the possibility that the student will reach a different, stronger conclusion.

    If there is but one possible conclusion and at the end of the process the student has found it and supported it himself, all is good. But when there are divergent possible conclusions and I really must have the conclusion to be one way due to personal biases… I’ll rather connect the dots I want connected, filter the facts I want seen, and try my best to present a closed package.

    And that’s what most debaters do in this matter.

  • 91. mendel wrote:

    I read your entire article and found it very amuzing. However, I will have to agree with “zak”. There are a lot of missing dots and poorly explained points. Where you put all the words of any mishichist as simply distorted, you seem to have distorted the words of the Rebbe. ( I say this with no pior Knowledge of the actaul words. I say it only based on what you wrote.)
    While, this may be written well enough to write to your son, it isn’t print worthy. (even with your disclaimer in the beggining)

  • 92. CML wrote:

    In responce to what someone said about bederech hatevah, the Rebbe choses to use tevah. If the Rebbe wanted to do miracles He could like the countless stories of the Rebbe being in more then one lace at a time.
    Do you really think that the Rebbe HAD to be on the balcony? I dont and if anyone does i think they should rethink why/what makes them a chassid.
    After the Alter Rebbe passed away the chassidim who would tovel the body in the mikva said to the alter Rebbe’s “DIED” boby (whatever that mean) “if you want to be toveled do it yourself” so to speak. They left the room and they heard a splash and when they came back in the room the Alter Rebbe’s body was wet and redressed.
    SO you could say that someone over heard these Chassidim speking to the Alter Rebbes body and so when they left he desided it was his job to makes ure the body was toveled
    OR you can say Yes the Alter Rebbe chose to go beyond teval and do it himself cuz thats what he desided needs to be done.

    If a Chassid is on shluchis and someting AMAZING happens he will (or should) say it wasnt me it was the Rebbe.
    Why?
    Cuz a chassid is shliach shel adam kimoso. So if you can say the Rebbe can do all these things by all these different chabad houses so why cant he chose and empower hisself sts and chose what are his stranges and what he is going to let nacture take its turn.
    If you would say that when the Rebbe nodded his head you cant always take it, so what about all thoughs people who had live threatening illnesses and asked the Rebbe if they should do surgery or not and the Rebbe nodded His head and they listened and did the surgery. Dont pick and chouse what thing the Rebbe did are kosher and what are treif. He either could or couldnt and HE did so He must beable too.
    Another thought; Aliahu HaNavi- when the chariot of fire came HE walked to it. Noo ne made him go in. He had “tzadik Bechira” and chose to give “himself” back to Hashem.

    I think i might have lost my point in all i said, Im saying how dare you call yourself a chassid and say the Rebbe could or couldnt do something.
    Either way the Rebbe is our Rebbe and as a Lubavitcher we all (should) believe that He’s the one going to asend his thrown and take us out of golus NOW!!!

  • 93. SYT89 wrote:

    You know what, maybe after reading alot of this spiteful and hateful comments I don’t want to be a chossid of the Rebbe anymore. Afterall, more than one of you said that you’re not a chossid if you don’t believe the Rebbe is moshiach. You can go on and on about how other chassidim from different groups considered their Rebbe moshiach, but show me ONE that still holds that a former Rebbe is still Moshiach after he was niftar. You can scream Yechi all you want and convince your children that the Rebbe is moshiach but unless you do a REAL action, whether in chessed, tefiloh, tzedakah, etc, and not just dancing with yellow flags, convincing goyim that the “messiah is here”, and desecrate the cornerstone outside 770 than maybe c’vs your children will not be zoiche to seeing moshiach come, and it will be YOU who let them down.

  • 94. a shliach wrote:

    to tell a shliach he is disgusting if he doesn’t believe the Rebbe is moshiach IS disgusting. every shliach can have his or her own opinion. many shlichim kids are very confused and their parents and ONLY their parents can tell them what they believe. their parents don’t need YOU confusing their kids. so next time your about to tell a shliach kid they should be yechi THINK FIRST and them take your next move.

  • 95. zak wrote:

    ATT: Sam9

    Ok granted, as you pointed out, he does write:
    “I decided not to wait until you come home but to spend the time and write this letter to you with MY THOUGHTS on the matter.“

    You think that is a sufficient disclaimer.

    I disagree.

    That passage was not written with the intention, of informing us that the following is ONLY his opinion, and not to be taken with certainty.

    Rather it is analogous to saying ”I think I will have cereal for breakfast“.

    Now did I really ”THINK“ about what I will be having for breakfast?

    NO.

    Its just a method of speech.

    If the author would have stated clearly and openly, in a separate sentence, that ”The following is just my personal opinion, and may not be correct with a hundred percent certainty”, then I would agree with you.

    But he did not, so I don’t agree.

    Now about your analogy with the Talmud, and the ability of the Tanayim to make inferences.

    You do bring up a very good point.

    Unfortunately for you, it can also be used against you.

    Let me ask you.

    Suppose I open up a a chumash, and find a extra letter, and I am able to give a sufficient argument for the logic behind that extra letter, and according to my logic I am able to make up a new halacha.

    Can I do that.Can I just open up a chumash and make my own inferences halachas?

    Obviously, the answer is no.

    But why the tanayim did it, why cant I?

    Well the answer is very simple.

    They are a tana. And you are not.

    End of story.

    No more explanation necessary.

  • 96. Reuven wrote:

    To those of you who think you MUST believe the Rebbe is Moshiach to be a chossid, I say YOU do more damage and cause more problems than the author of this letter ever will. To have a mind that is so absolutely sure of reality with no possibility of accepting another’s heartfelt opinion is so profoundly insulting, so profoundly not Chassidic, so profoundly destructive, as to make me question whether I shoudl ever set foot in another Chabad minyan.

    If your view is that you must believe the Rebbe is Moshiach to be a Chassid, then I think I have more in common with an Arab than I do with you, narrow-minded hateful individual that you are.

  • 97. Reuven wrote:

    And before I forget, I must say THANK YOU to the author of this letter for having the guts to post such a well-written piece about a subject that most Lubavitchers would rather sweep under the rug. BRAVO !!!

  • 98. Aghast! wrote:

    So the Rebbe was all powerful and could have done this that or the other if he so wished!?

    Why should a leader of a portion of the Jewish world (not all Yidden by a long shot – although the Rebbe was recognised for good or bad by all segments) be greater that Geonim, Amoraim, Tanoyim, Nevi’im, etc.

    As far as I can tell, not one of these sages could stop the destruction of two Botei Mikdash, the exiles or even small progroms – this was down their ability to bring Yidden to Torah and Mitvos through sincere teshuvah.

    And this is what the Rebbe zy”o was – a leader who through his brilliance and charisma was able to bring thousands of Yidden back.

    This is not just my view since Gimmel Tammuz but has been my attitude since day 1 (I was about 11 years old when first exposed to Lubavitch).

    I also had the z’chus to have personnal yechidus and dollars on many occasions (including the very first time that it took place).

    Whilst there was an air of G-dliness, wisdom and Ruach HaKodesh, at no time did I see a miracle worker (that is – out of the bounds of the physical world’s limitations).

    This mashiach thing – is not living with reality – and – causing machlokes – which can only be detrimental to all the work the Rebbe did and strove for.

  • 99. Hashem-s Hand wrote:

    To those who cannot understand the difference between ruchnius and gashmius (spiritual and physical):

    What do you do when you come to a verse in the Torah that refers to Hashem’s “hand” or “eye” or the like? Do you say to your child that it must be meant in gashmius, that G-d has a actually has physical body??????!!! If you do our sages unanimously agree you are Wrong, and according to most Poskim you are an Apikores!!!

    Not everything can be taken literally! Some things are true only spiritually speaking.

    Grow up already. Chabad is supposed to be intellectual — Chochma, Bina, Daas, Wisdom, Understanding, Knowledge — most of the posters here have none of this. Either they have let their emotions gain total control, or they have IQ’s that would have to be registered in negative numbers!

  • 100. PRAPOGANDA EXPOSESD!! wrote:

    the author was impressively eloquent but clearly ignorant of the Torah-Sources describing the three stages of the final Geula and the Yiddens Challenge of Emunah,

    stage 1) Hisgalus = but only a handful of jews believe him! do to Choshech hagolus,

    stage 2) Nichse = golus gets darker and moshiach is concealed

    stage 3) Final hisgalus which is accompanied with blatant miracles and Geulah = all will believe w/o exception!!

  • 101. Shliach - under Merkos wrote:

    Very sad. Many people who are bashing the guys who believe the Rebbe to be bechezkas Moshiach have said that “there is no intellectual discussion going on”.Well, many sources were named – that IS intellectual discussion.

    Tachlis, no one – pro or anti – should ever get their opinions from an op-ed like this. GO TO THE ORIGINAL SOURCES! If you read what the Rebbe actually said, you will be able to form an INTELLIGENT decision, rather than one based on, yes, someone with an agenda on either side.

  • 102. Author is a fraud wrote:

    why els does the author conveniently forget to mention all the Torah sources about “Niches” the stage where just as mosheh rabeinu goel rishon, was Nigleh, Nichseh, V’nigleh!!
    shame on you to misinform soo many who dont have the luxury to do there own careful research!!!
    Hashem should forgive you!

  • 103. boruch hoffinger wrote:

    B”H
    Why don’t all the commentors sign their names?
    Also, Rabbi S. Majesky and others can EASILY defeat all these ‘diburim betailim.’
    I’m not tzadik or benoni, but neither is the author of these words, why?
    Because he should have not wasted his time writing shtus and gone out and supported his family or learned Torah.
    bhoffinger

  • 104. eli wrote:

    i have labored on this topic extensively and here is what I have found.

    Chelek 2 , lkutai sichos, the normal order of geula is bias Moshiach , binyan bais Hamikdosh , kibbutz golius , techias hamassim , but there will be exceptions to this order. See Radvaz , and Zohar which states there will be a techiya of Tzaddikim before the general Techiya, gemara yuma which states Moshe and Aharon will be with us before the bais hamikdosh is rebuilt.

    Sefer ma’marim mlukat – the Geula does not begin until Kibbutz golius is complete – meaning there will be a techiya before complete Geula.

    Chelek 32 likutai sichos – Moshiach begins his work prior to the onset of Binyan Bais Hamikdosh and techiya.

    Chelek 9 likutai sichos – the nigleh/vneskasa of Moshiach is in between the stages of chezkas and Vadai.

    techiyas hamaisim even during golus was no big deal to the tanaim and amoriam , christianity as religeon was built upon the rejection of the oral torah and has very little to do with the inyan of techiya (despite it being a central part of their narrative). As the Rambam states the whole purpose of christianity is to famaliarize the world with the inyan of Moshiach and Geula. Ask yourself which aspects the Rambam is talking about. The rejection of oral torah? I doubt it.

    In terms of the words of the Rambam ‘vim lo hitzliach at ko’ look at kerem chabad volume 2 , where a rishon (R’i Mlondartz) explains the words of the Rambam in a clear manner

    this is in addition to the unambigious words of the Rebbe in all the years and all the sichos especially 91 and 92 that we are in the generation of Geula (yes i know , how long is a generation? i guess you must be right since youve run out of patience) and the Rabeeim were the ones who opened the otzer of the melech malchai hamalachim to fight the last war with chassidus – they’ve given us the weapons, to our last lowly generation , but we have the power of netzach and in the end we will all push ourselves out of this mess and see the great gilium of the Geula – through the catalyst – Moshiach Tzidkainu

    if anyone is really interested in page numbers for these mkoros I will be happy to provide

  • 105. Pesachya Herskovits wrote:

    I am amazed! People will argue anything, just not the issue at hand. I wrote clearly that the argument if the Rebbe could be limited or not is not the point here, the fact remains that there was a MAJOR communication problem between the Rebbe and us after the stroke. Our sins r“l could be the reason for that, but the fact still remains that we weren’t able to get clarification from the Rebbe as to how we are supposed to take his encouragement of the Yechi singing, and therefore one cannot take any step further then what it was, namely chassidim in the Rebbe’s presence wishing him eternal life. Any other setting, time or style – especially after the histalkus when the words poshut make no sense whatsoever – for that there was no ”idud”.

    Instead of addressing this point, and all other valid points of what I wrote, or of what the author wrote, people choose to argue side issues. There could be only one reason for that: The Meshichisten have nothing to answer!!!

  • 106. sam9 wrote:

    Dear zac:

    am sorry to read the u think it was not a sufficient disclaimer i guess u should of read the original disclaimer that this letter is intended for opened mined people only from the conclusions you make from reading what this man writes and how he writes it, its seems this letter was really NOT intended for you.

    with that said i dont believe that i have to address your first (what YOU would call) analogy

    regarding your second statement i think what you write affirms my earlier my assumptions of you, i never tried to suggest that we are in some way comparable to tanyayim. what i did say was that this man is applying a basic talmudic principle to the rebbes sicha, the same talmudic principle that is applied and used by students and teachers in yeshivas around the world when learning gemorah to this very day, and all it is, is a thought process and approach people obtain from learning gemorah, and i am a firm believer that this thought process should be used while learning the rebbes sichos (and not just to sit and read so the rebbe asks on this weeks parsha that…… so the rebbe answers …….)

    trying to suggest that its improper for a chasid to ask questions on the rebbes torah (which the rebbe spoke at farbrengens directly to us) or try to find LOGICAL answers to the questions he has on the sicha, is preposterous, idiotic, and naive.
    its like saying that if some one finds a discrepancy in a sicha or a contradiction between one sicha and another or even a contradiction between a sicha and a gemora that he must conclude that we can never know what the rebbe meant and we are sure as chasidim that the rebbe knew of that gemora and of the problems it posses therefore it is not a contradiction!

    this is the wrong approach! the right curse of learning would be to try to find a LOGICAL answer that can reconcile the contradictions and settle the discrepancy, because if the rebbe said it then there most be an answer, only when all effort is exhausted, can we say that the rebbe must have known this gemora and the problem is posses and even if its seem to be a contradiction we are certian as chassidim that the rebbe took this into account

    this is exactly what this man does here: he asks the simple question why the rebbe choose one gemorah over an seemingly stronger gemorah and he tried to find a logical answer and god helped and he did, does that pasken or does he pasken this is the answer and that is what the rebbe meant, the answer is NO! END OF STORY No more explanation should be necessary, but with you, you never know!!!!

  • 107. elequent but mistaking! wrote:

    1) FIRST WHAT HE DID CORRECTLY IS TO FRAME THE DISCUSSION ON DAAS TORAH!
    2) HE CONVENIENTLY FAILD TO ADRESS/REBUTEL (SHLUG UP) THE NUMEROUS TORAH SOURCES WHICH PREDICT A NISAYOIN OF “NICHSEH” (CONCELMENT)
    WHICH IS PRECEEDED BY AN INITIAL “HISGALUS” WHICH “CHAZAL” PREDICTED TO BE POORLY BELIEVED BY MOST OF THE YIDDEN!
    (AND THE MEDROSHIM COMPARE THIS PATTERN TO THAT OF THE “DOIR HAMIDBAR”, WHO ALSO MOSTLY REFUSED TO BELIEVE MOSHE AS THE REDEEMER!!! -DO TO THE WORSENING DARKNESS OF GOLUS MITZRAYIM!!)

    THE SOURCES TO THE ABOVE STATEMENT ARE WELL PUBLICISED AND THERFORE AN ABSELUTE AVOIDENCE OF EVEN MENTIONING THEM IS INDICATIVE OF EITHER
    1) MALICIOUSE PROPOGANDA OF DISINFORMING THE UNRESEARCHED MASSES
    OR

    2)AN OVER ARROGANT SELF RITIOUSE IGNORAMOUS WITH A GOOD ENGLISH AND ELIQUENT WRITTING SKILLS!!

    EITHER WAY THE PUBLIC WHO ARE GENUINELY SINCERE ABOUT KNOWING THE UN“CONFUSED” TRUTH ON THIS MATTER, WILL CERTAINLY RELY ON NO OTHER SOURCE THEN THE FIRST-HAND SICHOS 91-92
    AS WELL AS
    THE NUMEROUSE TORAH-SOURCES ON THE MATTER OF THE 3 STAGES OF HISGALUS OF MOSHIACH:
    1=NIGLEH
    2=NICHSE
    3=CHOIZER V NISGALEH L’EINEI KOIL!!!

    IF THIS OPED WRITTER IS SINCERE HE’LL CERTAINLY LOOKUP THE TORAH SOURCES AND UPDATE HIS “EDUCATED” ANALASYS!

    BTW

    THOSE WHO OBEYED THE REBBE’S URGENT REQUEST TO LEARN THE SOURCES OF MOSHIACH V’GEULA ARE NOT VOLNURABLE TO WELL WRITTEN IMPRESSIVE SOUNDING MISSINFORMATION!!!

  • 108. chcitizen wrote:

    WHO CARES what everyone thinks just lets bring moshiach already …..everyone will have their own opinions but fighting with one another will just make matters worse have ahavas yisroel dont fight and bring moshiach now !! WE NEED HIM NOW !!!!

  • 109. bochur wrote:

    wow wat a learning experience that was you know what they say 3 jews 9 opinions
    the only problem that i have is that all these arguments are primerily emotionally charged and not intelectually charged……people decide wat they believe even before they ubderstand why they believe it the logic is only there to give there emotional beliefs legitimate grounds with wich to argue on…..maybe there is a positive out come to all this atleast people are now starting to learn and focus more on moshiach its a great subject one wich the rebbe ecouraged us to learn and to focus on in my humble opinion i think that people need to come back down to earth and realize that there are very practical things that we could and should be doing to bring moshiach right now and that we should stop focusing on the why but rather on the how and when not to say that the why isnt important we all have a job to do and maybe its because ive lived in a yeshiva environment for so long but i think its as clear as day wat our mission in life and how to accomplish it we have to know and understand that this is the yetzer hora distacting us from our true purpose on this earth and after all i can say with complete certainty that the rebbe wants wat hashem wants and that is for us to do all we can to make this world a dwelling place for etc

  • 110. Yosef Yitzchok W. wrote:

    I was anti already shortly after 3 Tamuz, and knew that was the right decision. Finally now 14 years later more Lubavitcher are waking up to smell the coffee that we were all mistaken. Let’s get back to who we really are. Time for us to just let the Rebbe’s legacy live on and get a move with our lives.
    Like other chasidic branches, not everyone has to be a mechanech and for that matter a shaliach. You can be in business etc and still be a good lubavitcher. You needn’t shove your beliefs upon anyone. I am still Chabad even if I don’t hold of all that moshaiach ideology.

    Crown Heights has gotten too caught up with all that and the mechanchim have indoctrinated our children with all this junk that they are now coming to reject it all. It’s no wonder then why my daughter walks the streets of the community dressed like a slut. it’s not her fault nor mine. She has been injected with all kinds of fallacies that she as a growing teenager has come to realize is not what life is about.

    Let’s get back to basics. Our schools need to teach the kids about REAL yidishkeit, not just who is Moshiach (in fact not at all). It’s important that the kids know about their rich Chabad heritage and our great Rebbes a’h. However, none of that is to c’v come at the expense of teaching them authentic Judaism, which seems to be the case in the great institutions of our community (which some have been hijacked by these fanatics).

    If you don’t to see your sons, daughters, wives etc all dropping like flies from the derech Chabad, as has been occurring extremely rampantly in recent years then let’s shape up. I’m sick of seeing my daughters and their friends dressed so pritzsusdik and violating halacha, Shabbos and Jewish morals and values. These actions are far from Chabad’s way of life, but they are happening to almost everyone here, gezhe or not.
    Why?
    Because you waste your time emphasizing the wrong things instead of teaching the main things. This applies to the boys’ schools as much as to the girls mosdos. ..It’s nice that the author is helping his child to understand thing in perspective. But all of this issue must stop and chabad has to move on!

  • 111. Aghast! wrote:

    Re: Hashem-s Hand

    References to physical attributes given to HaShem has already been discussed in several places in Talmud.

    In short, the expressions are giving a level of understanding to us ordinary beings of kochos that are in reality beyond our normal understanding.

    As such the issue which you seem to suggest cannot be explained HAS been explained long before chasidus was on the scene.

    I find the number of entries with quite non-mainstream ideas of great concern. Giving quotes from various sources to support such ideas is dangerous.

    At best, they should be left as “not fully understood” and ideally, they should not even be quoted – if for no other reason than avoiding machlokes.

    As I said previously, and this has been said in different ways by others, live and let live, avoid upsetting one another. Nothing will be achieved in publicly making abnormal demonstrations of controversial beliefs.

  • 112. CML wrote:

    Why is it that the lubavitchers themsleves are the ones who are so mad about the hole yechi thing.
    i know there are the crazy mishachistim that do bother the rest of the world and what they are doing is not right either but there are crazy antis as well who rip out peoples beards. No one is perfect adn if someone thinks that they are they are blind.
    What about the Bresluv? isnt Lubavitch supose to be happy and loving and welcoming EVERYONE even if they dont agree with what they are doing?
    Rabbi Nachama has been died for about 300 year since about the time of the Atler Rebbe and no one is mad that they sing there somgs about him being alive.
    What about the source of Yechi. DOvid Hamelech and Bas Sheva, She said it to him on his death bed. Thats making a joke of the king thats Murid hamalchus. So whywasnt she killed? Cuz its true, once a king/leader/potental moshiach always lives strong though the people adn there seforim.
    thats what the Rebbe said about the Frerdikei Rebbe, which you can apply to the Rebbe as well.
    The Rebbe Said Parshas Chaya Sarah nun bais, “Beofen Hamiskabel” about publisizing Moshiach, (who or not who is argueable) the fact is we ahev to publisize it however the world/city will except it and each and every place is different and each person is dif.
    But the Rebbe does say the 4 names in the gamara came by the chassidim who publisized tha tthere Rebbe IS Moshaich.
    What about Rebbe Yehuda HaNassi who once he passed away hischassidm said if anyone says that Hes not alive they would KILL!!!
    I think, hoep that a little more extreme then any crazy mishachist would do. FYI ahlf the crazy people where crazy even earlier on in there life before they “joined” the crazyness.

    Take that into comsideration please before you say ALL and say anyone that says yechi…

  • 113. AhavasYis.=expose+inform wrote:

    Correcting misinformation eloquently presented in this oped is indeed TRUE AHAVAS YIROEL!!

    protecting well-intentioned readers from a (clever) agenda-driven-self-righteous-propagandist
    is the DUTY of all learned ANASH who have leaned “inyonei geula umoshiach” as the Rebbeh (wisely) requested and urged,

    below is a list of very esteemed Rabbis/Mashpiim/Chassidim that have 2 things in common
    1)they are exceptionally knowledgeable in Torah sources pertaining to GeulaUmoshiach
    2)they all unapologetically say that the belief (Rebbeh is Moshiach) is 100% aligned with Halacha, Chasidus, Sichos and Medroshim!!!

    Rabbi’s
    Majesky,
    Hendel,
    Paltiel,
    Jacobson,
    Blooming,
    Greenberg,
    Kalmenson,
    Bell,
    Avtzen,
    Mangel,
    Ulman,
    Gelokowsky,
    Wolf,
    and many others including (Shockingly) Reb Yoel Kahan, who while misrepresented in public personally overtly professes to all who ask!!! under 4 eyes Rabbi Manis Friedman as well!!!

    the fact is that the nisayoin for a fundraiser is great!! especially if he is too bizzy to readup on all the relevant material
    (dispersed over thousands of pages of sichos, medrashim, gemara, halach brura, rambam,)
    thus
    consult
    a) the well versed,
    b) un-susceptible to “shoichad-ye-aver”
    =
    Rabbi’s
    Majesky,
    Hendel,
    Paltiel,
    Jacobson,
    Blooming,
    Greenberg,
    Kalmenson,
    Bell,
    Avtzen,
    Mangel,
    Ulman,
    Gelokowsky,
    Wolf,
    and many others including (Shockingly) Reb Yoel Kahan, who while misrepresented in public personally overtly professes to all who ask!!! under 4 eyes Rabbi Manis Friedman as well!!!

  • 114. Shainy770 wrote:

    Did the Rebbe ever say he was Moshiach Vadai?
    You know, he didn’t!

    Did the Rebbe ever say he was b’chezkas Moshiach?
    Actually, no!

    DID THE REBBE EVER SAY “I AM YOUR REBBE?”
    (The answer is no!)

  • 115. ML wrote:

    I would like to thank the author for putting forward the view that many mature individuals in Lubavitch hold and yet are not abusive either verbally or physically and therefore keep a low profile.

    One thing that seems to have been forgotten in this whole scenario is that we are servants of HaKodesh Boruch Hu, that it is to Him we owe allegiance and that the Rebbe’s ny”a teachings are our guide to serve our Creator in the most beautiful way. This makes us chassidim! Now let us get back on track, capital letters apply only to HaShem; and at the right time, with our utmost effort, HaShem will reveal moshiach to help us perfect the creation, as is His master plan. Learning HaShem’s Torah, davening to HaShem for our needs and doing mitzvos. Everything else is the unhanded plot of the soton to which we seem to be pulled in. Rabosei, heilige Yidden, stick to the job at hand. A gut gebentchde yohr to all klal Yisroel

  • 116. Hashem-s Hand II wrote:

    Another thought about the importance of being able to distinguish between ruchnius & gashmius:

    To know the difference between spiritual matters and physical matters happens to unquestionably be one of the pillars of understanding of Kabbalistic & Chassidic thought.

    This is the primary reason why in previous generations it was forbidden for the general populace to learn Kabbalistic themes, because it was feared that people would not know how to “mafshit hadevorim me’gashmiuson,” “unclothe the ideas from their physicality.”

    This used to be one of the most basic premises taught to everyone who was just starting to study Chassidus – see near the beginning of the Tzemach Tzedek’s maimar “Shoresh Mitzvas Tefilah” and in many places – it seems however that this essential teaching is either unintentionally or intentionally being ignored.

    It is incumbent on every honest Mashpia and Chossid in Lubavitch today (there seem to be precious few remaining) to again emphasize this distinction, and to assist the mentally challenged individuals – like the one above who needs help answering his/her son how some things can be true “only in ruchnius” – to help them to wizen up just a bit, to stop making such a Chilul Hashem, and to stop destroying the wonderful Chassidic heritage entrusted to us by the Rebbe zt”l and the great Rebbeim zt”l who preceded him.

    Those who continue to insist vocally and with their actions on a “gashmius” interpretation of the Rebbe zt”l being Moshiach should be dealt with also in a “gashmius” way – including, if nothing else works, by having them physically removed from 770 and from affiliation in any way with any Chabad-Lubavitch institutions. The time to do this is long, long overdue. Do not waste any more time before carrying out this needed rectification. Do it NOW!

  • 117. What the Rebbe DID NOT say! wrote:

    Re: Shainy770 wrote “DID THE REBBE EVER SAY “I AM YOUR REBBE?” (The answer is no!)”

    Here are a few more things the Rebbe zt“l did not say:

    Did the Rebbe ever say ‘I am Hashem’?

    Did the Rebbe ever say ‘I am President of the USA’?

    Did the Rebbe ever say ‘I am Superman’?

    Did the Rebbe ever say ‘I am SuperWOMAN’?

    Did the Rebbe ever say ‘I am Mickey Mouse’?

    Did the Rebbe ever say ‘I AM A PIECE OF GREEN CHEESE’?

    If you and your foolish friends want to say silly things about the Rebbe zt”l – it is on your own achrayus, and you are just prooving how very silly you yourselves are.

    On the other hand, although the Rebbe zt”l never said ‘I am your Rebbe’ – he did OPENLY ACT the way a Rebbe should act, taking the seat at the head of the community, saying sichos & maamorim, answering heavy questions, giving blessings, etc., etc.

    Meanwhile, with regard to being Moshiach, more important than that he did not say he was Moshiach, he also DID NOT DO what Moshiach has to do, i.e., win the war of Hashem, build the Bais Hamikdosh, gather the Jewish people to our land and bring peace to the world.

    Maybe you are the real Mickey (or Minny) Mouse! Your logic has more holes than Swiss cheese!

  • 118. Sarah P wrote:

    To Yosef Yitzchok W:

    I agree completely with the points you made. Every meshichist likes to quote Rambam to prove their points, but they forget Rambams word that the topics of moshiach are not something that we are supposed to dwell on. We are not meant to be Jews of Moshiach, rather we are Jews of Hashem and his Torah. That should be our focus and our hishtadlus.Learn Torah, learn gemara and midroshim and all the other wealth out there and stop focusing only on inyanei moshiach.

  • 119. To YY W. wrote:

    To Yosef Yitzchok W.

    I share the same sentiments as you in many ways. Though I am NOT an “anti”; in fact I despise that term, but I guess you are proud of it we do have some common ground. It’s not only “antis” who are experiencing this decline in Lubavitch and Yiddishe values in their children, it is the majority of our community and yes many other communities as well.

    I am terrified to allow my children to walk on Kingston Avenue, it’s just as bad as letting them go to the beach. The scenes today were once upon a time, not very long ago unfathomable in Lubavitch. Today though some very popular women are dressing as though they forgot to put on some of their clothes. Unfortunately there are even some shluchos who are supposed to be representing the Rebbe on the battlefront and are inappropriately dressed as such (is that the kind of representation the Rebbe needs or wants?!) perhaps they are better not symbolizing Chabad if this is their uniform!

    Why isn’t kit fashionable to dress tznius anymore? Why do so many of our girls and women feel the need to expose so much of themselves and their cleavage? Why are there that many buchrim falling through the cracks? There seems to be so many who really don’t care anymore about being mekushar to the Rabbeim and the ways of chassidus.

    Where is this all coming from? I think your answer is invalid. Though I don’t have a better answer, I must disagree with the rationale that you have tried to persuade us with. Teaching our children about the Rebbe/Moshiach/Chassidus etc. is not the root of our tzarus. That is not the reason why so many kids are dropping out and why the girls are dressing so provocatively. To say what you are trying to convey I think is a scapegoat. Where I do stand with you though is that knowing that there’s a serious problem is already part of the cure. The problem, I thin k is that many don’t even realize how serious it has gotten. They have become so used to it that it is normal. That’s why there are even prominent women walking around dressed like their performing a peep show. The3y have lost touch with the reality of what it means to be a chosid, to act like one and to dress like one. We have all become immune to galus mentality and it’s very dark and only getting darker. The mosdos are in many ways neglecting our children as you pointed out very well. Not because they are teaching our rich heritage. But because they aren’t really caring for them.

    If it is truly wrong the way these people are behaving then why hasn’t anyone done anything about it? WHy is the matter shoved under the rug? If the menahalim really cared then they would address the real issues that our youth have and take care of them.

    Moshiach is the answer to all of our problems not the cause of them. Now that’s where I differ from you. If we actually do focus on Inyonei Moshiach more and properly as the Rebbe demanded, then our kids will be ore in tune with a Moshiach reality and not the “fallacious” one that you try to describe. Because really the world around is the illusion and the truth of reality is lehovi limos haMoshiach, bimheira biyameinu.

  • 120. Mice & Cheese wrote:

    BS”D

    To Shainy770 and All —

    In all seriousness now, and not just pocking fun, can’t you see the fallacy of your argument?

    The Rebbe zt“l WAS the Rebbe of Lubavitch, 7th generation. There is NO QUESTION about his identification as the Rebbe. Chassidim implored him to become Rebbe, he accepted it upon himself, and he served in that capacity for more than 40 years. There was no need for him to tell anyone “I am the Rebbe” or ”I am your Rebbe.” No one could have any doubt about it. To friend and foe alike he was “The Lubavitcher Rebbe.”

    The Rebbe zt”l WAS NOT the Moshiach, the “Final Redeemer,” whom we pray for every day. The Rebbe did not do the things that Moshiach must do. On the contrary, we have been sinking farther and farther into golus in these many years since the Rebbe’s histalkus

    – 14 plus years now, a whole new generation! Children not born then are now Bar and Bas Mitzvah! The Rebbe did not give them a world of peace, tranquility, love and prosperity. Their world is filled with war, strife, hate and poverty. Our world has not seen the arrival of the Moshiach –

    The Rebbe, as truly great as he was, did not deliver on the special promise of Moshiach. There is NO QUESTION about the identification of the Rebbe zt”l as Moshiach – IT IS NOT HIM!

    The Rebbe himself never claimed to be Moshiach, and never did he ask or authorize anyone to proclaim and proselytize for him that he was Moshiach. Never did he expect that after his histalkus some numskulls would want to continue to make a shvil for him, and never did he expect that any of the authorities left among the Lubavitch Chassidim would allow this and similar atrocities to happen.

    The Rebbe WAS NOT A FAILURE as Moshiach because he never claimed to be Moshiach. The Lubavicher Chassidim however HAVE FAILED HIM. They have put words into his mouth that he never said, and they have turned the teachings and practice of Chassidus upside-down and backwards – and it is not funny!

    Maybe you know the identity of ELIYAHU HANAVI as well? Pray tell! I see some rabble rousers and know-it-alls, but I do not see Eliyahu, zachur l’tov, roaming around 770 or any other Lubavitcher environs. Isn’t it Eliyahu Hanavi’s job to point out who Moshiach is? Who are you or these others to do this ON YOUR OWN. You are behaving as false prophets and creating a false religion. You are not doing the wishes of the Rebbe, and you are not doing the wishes of Hashem. You are causing serious infighting among your fellow Lubavitchers and besmirching our reputation throughout the world.

    You Mishichistim are behaving like mice and you are feeding on moldy, smelly cheese. Please stop the mishigas already.

  • 121. seenitall wrote:

    To Yosef Yitzchok W:
    My heart goes out to u and I hope your child will speedily “sow her wild oats” and come back to u the proper way.

    I don’t live in CH, but visit often for biz & famikly reasons. This is an insider/outsider view and u can take it any way it helps u.

    #1. We live in a stormy time. A woman complained that her home was chassidish, no tv, etc. and still a child going the wrong way,how can the apple far so far from the tree. The Rebbe told her that when a storm is blowing, the apple can blow far away. Our kids are exposed to things that we never dreamed existed in our formative years. We have to do our part, keep our homes proper, say tehillim, tears don’t hurt, and hope for the best. However this doesn’t excuse the leaders which brings me to point #2.

    #2. After gimmel tammuz, we were facing a crisis in identity, meaning, and philosophy. At this critical point, the Rabbonim and leaders had to show true leadership and achdus to help everyone deal with something which is unprecented in Chabad, namely no physical Rebbe plain and simple. Instead they engaged in disgusting politics, mi beroish, turf wars etc. I blame everyone, Aguch, Bais Din CH, Mazkirus, Vaad Hakohol, “Head Shluchim” etc. They all dropped the ball and hundreds of our dear kids fell thru the cracks.

    #3. Look at anash in CH aged 50-70. You will find numerous chassidishe teiyereh yungeleit, who work hard, go to shiurim at night, on days off go on mivtzoim, wouldn’t dream of having a tv in their house, review sichos at their shabbos table, etc.

    Now look at anash aged 25-40. How many such guys are there? very few for a simple reason. 30 years ago, going on shlichus was not an option for most people. Money was hard, no one dreamed of going off on themselves and raising money from day one, etc. Instead they stayed in CH, and set up true chassidishe homes.

    Today any kollel yungerman with some chassidishe hergesh wouldn’t dream of living in CH, and is trying to get a shlichus opportunity. This has left a void in CH, and we are seeing the effects on kingston every day, v’dal.

    Bottom line, u can’t blame all the tzoros on the yechi issue, but u can point fingers at the lack of achdus, stupid fighting inside the moisdas, 770 being a zoo, and lack of leadership.

    We all get 24 hours a day to use. If u spend 2 hours of it on court cases, flag waiving, etc., u lost two hours u could have spent learning with a community child, counseling a confused teenager, volunteering at a hospital, putting tefillin on a yid, learning with your children, etc.

    I wish u all the best, and a Ksiva V’Chasima Tova.

  • 122. wondering wrote:

    is the author really expressing an “anti-” position, that really fits better in some other chassidus (the idea that the nitzotzos of moshiach are distributed among klal yisroel, only more so in the Rebbe), and that the psak of the Rebbe makes clear that he won’t be the physical Moshiach after death?

    or is the author saying this only for outsiders, while the 4th paragraph functions as a disclaimer – chassidus wants the pnimius of a chassidish hergesh, a feeling of moshiach in ruchniyus internally, which remains private – while making a public statement to the contrary?

  • 123. Hashem-s Hand IV wrote:

    Where any honest reader MUST DISAGREE WITH THE OP-ED WRITER however is regarding the part where he writes:

    “Much (if not all) of the opposition in the world at large to the idea that the Rebbe is Moshiach stems from the assumption that we are talking about the actual Halachik consrtuct. Indeed, most non-Lubavitchers do not know much about Moshiach or anything pertaining to ruchnius in general and certainly they know nothing about the difference between Moshiach al pi Halacha and Moshiach in ruchnius and this is where a lot of the confusion and rejection comes from. They think you are talking about Moshiach in actuality meaning b’gashmius – in Halacha, while you are talking about Moshiach b’ruchnius. This disconnect has caused most of their antagonism and resulted in much of the trouble we have encountered.

    “One Litvishe Rosh Yeshiva wrote in a letter that his main objection to the claim that the Rebbe is Moshiach is that it conflicts with the psak Halacha of the Rambam. The moment you tell them that we agree that the Rambam is the final Halacha but we believe that the Rebbe is Moshiach b’ruchnius the whole issue becomes moot. However, because of all the shouting and publicity about who is Moshiach no intelligent communication has been able to take place about this point to this very day.”

    The writer is being VERY DISINGENUOUS here. He knows – and writes most of his letter – concerning the large faction of Lubavitch who believe that the Rebbe is/will be the actual, halachic Moshiach. That is why the Meshichistim are such a problem and causing Chilul Hashem.

    The writer is also off track, to the extent that HE UNDERMINES EVERYTHING HE PREVIOUSLY WROTE, when he continues: “Will the Rebbe be Moshiach in actuality? As Chassidim, we have a right to hope that it will be so…” NO WE DO NOT!

    The writer tries to qualify his sentiment by writing: “But remember all of this remains a hope and ‘chasidishe hergesh,’ as explained above, no more and no less. By no more I mean that it can never rise to the level of a belief. A belief is a certainty and an absolute while a hope is wish.” Unfortunately though, with this idea of HOPING FOR THE IMPOSSIBLE, he lets the cat out of the bag, steps out on the slippery slope, and inevitably courts disaster! THIS IS JUST ABSURD.

    The op-ed writer tries to explain this: “Now, if you will ask how is it possible for this hope to actually become a reality? The Rebbe himself gave us the answer. If a miracle of techias hamasim will occur before the time of Moshiach (and completely not related to the geulo and the techias hamasim that is related to it) then he will indeed be ‘of the living’ and then he can become Moshiach…”

    The Rebbe zt”l NEVER GAVE SUCH AN ANSWER! Even the op-ed writer himself already noted that the Rebbe, in his statements about the Frierdike Rebbe, meant only that if he could immediately return from the dead, the Frierdike Rebbe would merely lead us ‘toward’ Moshiach, NOT that he himself would be Moshiach! STOP INTENTIONALLY CHANGING THE REBBE’S WORDS!

    I too am Aghast! Where is your Chassidic hergesh of TRUSTING IN HASHEM! Let Hashem decide about Moshiach. IT IS NOT UP TO YOU!

    Based on this article it would seem that Snag is correct (09/03/08 – 00:37), “This op-ed only vindicates what Dr. David Berger has been saying all along: that there is no such thing as a Lubavitcher non-meshichist.”

    When will this craziness stop! Sholom u’refuah shlaima.

  • 124. Hashem-s Hand III wrote:

    To Aghast! 09/04/08 – 18:08 – and to all:

    Thank you for responding to my post Hashem’s Hand (09/04/08 – 13:33). It seems we agree when a Torah verse refers to Hashem’s “hand” or “eye” it must be understood only spiritually. G-d does not have a physical body. We agree this is the tradition of our past and present sages, that the Torah speaks “in the language of man.” We teach little children to believe Hashem is non-physical. We teach them that not everything in Torah is to be taken literally. We teach them that some things are true only spiritually.

    The op-ed writer and all sane people agree to the fact that the Rebbe zt”l CANNOT BE THE ACTUAL Moshiach. As the op-ed stated, “In conclusion; the answer to the first question “is the Rebbe Moshiach according to Halacha” the answer is unequivocally no, the Rebbe never was b’chezkas Moshiach according to Halacha and is today certainly not Moshiach according to Halacha, period.

    You disagree however (Aghast! 09/03/08 – 15:08) regarding “A SPIRITUAL Moshiach”: “A Mashiach in ruchnius makes no sense,” and you reason that “The title Mashiach is very specific – it means only one thing – that this particular person is physically anointed – I would refer you to Nach (only carried out where it was vital to establish the malchus) and Hilchos Malochim.”

    In my humble opinion you are going a little too far with this. There is no need to throw the baby out with the bath water. The term “Moshiach” can apply to any leader or potential leader. There is nothing wrong with a person following a “spiritual Moshaich,” which in this context means a leader whose teachings one connects to and follows, and brings beneficial effects. There is no real difference between this and following a spiritual Rebbe, which you wrote that you do accept as valid, it is just a difference of terminology.

    We say every day in davening (from Divrei Hayomin I 16:2) “Do not touch Moshichoi (My Messiahs),” and our sages teach (Shabbos 119:) “these are the school children.” Metzudos Dovid on this verse states that “Moshiach” means “leader” and “prince,” and points out that Scripture (Yeshiaya 45:1) calls Coresh, King of Pursia, “Moshiach.” From this it is clear that any person whose good deeds bring about a salvation may be considered at least to some degree as “Moshiach.” There is nothing wrong with occasionally referring to the Rebbe o.b.m. as a “Moshiach” in this sense. Obviously making a campaign centered on this is wrong however.

    The op-ed writer states as much: “When the discussion is shifted to the realm of ruchnius the whole notion is different. Moshe Rabaynu, Dovid Hamelech, the Baal Shem Tov, the Alte Rebbe, the Frierdike Rebbe all are Moshiach to a greater or lesser degree. After all, if the Nosi Hador is Moshiach then every dor has its Nosi who is Moshiach…. Chassidus even suggests that every Jew has a spark of Moshiach in his neshomo…. in the realm of ruchnius, neshomos can be part of each other, integrated together or invested in each other and one does not exclude the other as it would in gashmius. The nitzus (spark) of the neshomo of Moshiach is invested in all these individuals. We can not know or determine who has more and who has less of this nitzus. All we can say is that our Nosi, our Rebbe, has it…. But what this means is that he is so in ruchnius not Halacha and such a ruchniusdike notion has no place being trumpeted in the streets.”

    ——–To be continued——-

  • 125. answer to Mice & Cheese wrote: wrote:

    UR RESPONSE (AND OTHERS) ARE PROOF POSITIVE OF HOW CRITICALLY IMPORTANT IT IS TO DO DUE DILIGENT RESEARCH BEFORE YOU ADD INPUT TO THE DISCUSSION!!

    you are clarly ignorant of:

    1) the many sichos where the rebbeh repeatedly said “the nosi hador is moshiach sebador!!!”
    2) this is the last dor of galus + first of geula!!

    3) chaiyim nitzchiyim bli hefsek (geniza)

    4) the rebbe compared our “dor” to the dor hamidbar tested to believe the CONTRADICTING IMAGE PRODUCE BY THE SATTAN, or the words of Moshe goel rishon,!!

    5) THE REBBEH! URGED ALL TO DILIGENTLY STUDY INYANEI GEULA… = MUCH MORE AHAVAS YISROEL FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE AND MUCH LESS OPOSSITION FROM THE ANTI’S, (the shocking fact is that the Torah sourcs allow for this belief! and chasidus/emunas-tzadikim requires it!!

    CONCLUSSION:

    the greatest challange to the mishichist movement is:
    1) the few but NOISY CRAZIES which make it embaressing by association!
    2) the failiour of soo many shluchim to (defend the dignity of lubavitch by) EDUCATING themselfs and community re “INYONEI GEULA” and equipting them with the “DAAS-TORA” foundations!!

    the bottomline is:

    the REBBEH WAS RIGHT TO “URGE” HIS CHASIDIM TO BECOME VERY WELL-VERSED ON THE SUBJECT (b/c the conclussions are counter intuitive! to well intentioned types like you -but ignorant!!!

    open the book, reaserch, then Pontificate as much as you want!!
    gut voch!

  • 126. moshiach b heskes wrote:

    didnt rabbi Akiva declare Bar Kochba Moshiach before every jew was religious? according to the article Bar Kochba couldnt be Moshiach until all jews were religious.

  • 127. anon wrote:

    “i don’t understand, can someone please answer this question:

    can a person who passed away be moshiach? if yes, where does it say that, and how is that different from the christian belief that J.C. will return etc etc ?”
    _______________________________________

    This comment or question is really off base. The reason J.C. is and cannot be Moshiach has NOTHING, ZIP, ZERO,NADA to do with the fact he is dead. He cannot be Moshiach for the reason he was the antithesis of Moshiach for so many reasons…

  • 128. NOT SO anon wrote:

    It is NOT AS ANON states in the previous posting.

    Indeed there are many reasons JC cannot be Moshiach – however the PRIMARY reason is because he died.

    It is indeed a good question, an ultimately unanswerable question, for the op-ed author and those like him. Since they hope, and have a mysterious “Chasidishe hergesh,” that a miracle could (and will) occur to first resurrect the Rebbe zt”l, and then he could, and down the slippery slope) will miraculously become Moshiach – why not the same for JC, or anyone else for that matter? It does indeed sound exactly the same as the Christian “hergesh.”

    I’ve no doubt that you will reply by splitting hairs and inventing contrived explanations, but it just does not wash. It walks like a duck… and it is a duck.

    Good Shabbos.

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