“People Didn’t Leave!” – Hundreds Attend Tznius Shiur
CROWN HEIGHTS, Brooklyn [CHI] — A heightened interest in last nights Shiur entitled “Tznius, what can I do?” was already noticed in the comments on a post CrownHeights.info published on Tuesday evening, which announced the upcoming Shiur organized by Yagdil Torah, and was confirmed by the ‘full house’ that attended.
Many pictures in the Extended Article!
The Shiur began promptly at 8:30pm, given by Rabbi Aharon Dovid Gancz, a renowned Mechanech from Morristown, NJ, and went one till 10:30pm, keeping attendees rooted to their seats all throughout! Many more stayed even later for a question and answer session.
In the Shiur Rabbi Gancz spoke about how parents can be a good influence on their children, and expanded to neighbors and friends and how to approach the topic in a way which doesn’t look down on nor be demeaning toward the person.
Also discussed was the Halochos pertaining to Tznius, many of which people weren’t aware of. Rabbi Gancz included many stories and ma’asiyos in his lecture all around the topic.
One attendee said “it was as if people couldn’t get enough, they just weren’t leaving.”
fed up woman
Great…but it’s preaching to the choir. Where were all the guys who themselves look bummy…they are the ones whose wives (or future wives) dress provocatively, no sheitel, head barely covered with a scarf, bare legs, arms & tops etc etc.
Rabbi Gancz is one in a million, but I am more concerned about the men who weren’t there. How do we reach them? And how do we reach all these young married women? I dread going on Kingston during the good weather. We expect it from the goyim, but why do we have to see such appalling dress from our own?
abc
Q1: did the people who really need it go to this shiur.
Q2″ maybe it could be implemented for the many Israeli people that we have here in our neighborhood who would not get this message otherwise.
tape
Is there a tape of it. So people who could not be there can listen to?
mrs korf.
for the guys at the talk. im sure their wives are bullet proof. the bottom line you cant force people to do anything. but by making people inspired about spiritulity can.
btw does anyone remember Mrs. K. in camp cgi ny. who asked for the kitchen staff to cut the pickles and hotdpgs!
FRUM
YOU DONT NEED SHIURIM.
NO MAN HAS ANY BUSINEES TALKING TO ANY FEMALE OTHER THEN HIS WIFE AND DAUGHTERS.
AND HE CANNOT SEE IT AS SIMPLE AS THROWING OUT ALL NON TZNIUS CLOTHING FROM HIS HOUSE PERIOD. THEN SHAME ON HIM HE IS A WUSS AND A WHIMP
AND HIS KESUBA AND MARRIAGE IS NOT WORTH THE INK IT IS WRITTEN ON.
COME ON MEN. PUT YOURSELF IN CHARGE IT IS HIGHT TIME
UVEMOKOIM SHEIN ISH YESH ISHA (TIPSHA)
Moshie
anyone record it?
i would love to hear it!
GREAT
Great Job!
There should be many such Shiurim for everybody!
Hoyisi
It may be true that the “worst offenders” weren’t in attendance. However, change begins with a critical mass, and it snowballs from there.
The #1 point of Rabbi Gancz’s lecture was that we ALL find ways to communicate to our children and neighbors that which is important and non negotiable in other areas. If you care, you find a way to get the message across about Tznius too. Plus, everyone, no matter their standards/apathy, has a red line which they will never cross, and if they see a relative/neighbor crossing it, they will react properly.
All we need to do (easier said than done) is to realize that our red line needs to be a bit higher.
TO: FED UP (U R WRONG)
no need to be soo “FED UP”
your premise (that only wives of bummy dropouts have this problem) is 100% wrong,
the irony is that many women married to “dropouts” dress closer to halacha than many of the “gezeh” wana-be’s!
there always was a small percentage of women who simply are out to lunch,
*no consideration to respect the community they live in,
*no feellings for the dignity of all those who they tarnish, *no mentchlichkeit or ahavas yisroel to show some decency and decorum for the rebbeh’s community,
the so called “crises” is b/c the many COPY CATS! aka PEERPREASUER SYNDROME, where a many normal main stream women,
(with “competitive-issues”) ump on board, desperate to be seen as cool! blind to the REAL MESSAGE their statement says to the world!
THE POINT IS THAT ALL WOMEN (ACROSS THE SPECTRUM) need to be equipped and fortified so as not to be suckered into this race to the bottom!!
shamming there loved ones and disgracing the community, in the process!
Anon
PEOPLE who showed up were there to strenghten their own home the nisyanos out on the street are great, and even the mainstream are starting to be effected
tznius
To Hoyisi
the red line may need to be higher, but skirt lengths need to be a lot lower.
Sam the Internet Troll
Indeed, I must concur with my fellow trolls that it appears the target audience was in fact not in attendance.
This is a chance for the organizers of the local outreach centers like beis Shmuel and Ohel Nosson to step up to the plate. I am sure that Rabbi Pinson and his wife are paragons of chassidishkeit and tznius, respectively, but let us indeed see whether or not the modern orthodox congregants at the above mentioned institutions are on their way UP the derech or merely solidifying their DOWNWARD journey by seeking mainstream legitimacy in the Chabad community as an alternative to chassidishkeit.
In short, this event should have been organized by Beis Shmuel and held in that nice basement of theirs. Otherwise, it is just preaching to the choir.
*** Sam pops his meds, tucks in for the afternoon. ***
rebbe help
great job but till the rabbonim and the schools dont throw out peoples kids whos mothers stroll on kingston with skirts up till there…. then nothing will work
sadly CH has a name for ….
Boruch N. Hoffinger
BS”D
I didn’t attend because I wear long sleeves (Joke).
I’m sure it was a gevaldika shiur. Yigdal Torah is a fine organization and Rabbi Braud is a shining star.
Sure, ‘Tznius’ (In terms of dress) is very important but perhaps raising the community level of ‘ruchniut’ would help?
‘Tznius’ is an ‘all-encompassing’ term. Are we willing to work at it or just focus on women’s ‘tznius’ so they become a ‘Korbon’ and we conveniently forget our own gross shortcomings?
(A. What about offering economic incentive to women-girls to dress tznius? Let’s put out money where our mouth is.)
B. I was at a shiur, where, after the shiur the rabbi (Long beard) and two students (Also long beards-reached the bleachers!) discussed baseball in depth. This is ‘tznius?’
C. I attended a shul where two ‘Chassidim’, one wearing Tefillin, were discussing baseball in depth: names, dates, etc. (I suppose they were imagining themselves as ‘Baseball greats ready for the Hall of Fame’ or earning million-dollar salaries.).
D. I attended shuls were some men (Married and single) continually talk during Kaddish. This is ‘Tznius?’
E. I attended some shuls were a few men walk aroung during davening (Perhaps they’re looking for G-d?). There is a kuntres on this (Rebbe Rashab?) that clearly states that one can NOT daven properly. His/Her avodah will be sorely lacking. Walking only increases one’s self of self. This detracts from coming close to ‘Our Father in Heaven.’ Is this a ‘tznius’ problem?
Two Crown Heights store owners mistreated me.. One stole $3 from me and embarrassed me in public. The owner, I sadly discovered, is a low-life. The other was already rebuked, years ago by a well-known community person for mistreating customers (He hasn’t changed.) – this is ‘Tznius?’
F. Let the ladies hold a ‘Tznius’ meeting, discussing men’s problems: ‘bittle’ Torah, talking during davening and kaddish , cheating and embarrassing customers, etc.
If the men’s level of Ruchnius would rise to the level of, at least, mitnagdim (Quiet and orderly shuls!) then perhaps the level of ‘Tznius’ (Women’s) would rise in our community. Ruchnius can be infectious (Not swine flue type.)
I’m not immune from these negative influences. I talk a little during ‘chazeris ha shas’ (Torah subjects) but always answer. I NEVER talk during Kaddish, or walk around. I try to concentrate as much as possible on Tefillah.
OK, so I’m a Kohaine and have an advantage – I feel much Ruchnius very quickly. But we all have potential to ‘rise higher’ if we try.
If our kavanah during Tefilla would increase we would reap greater joy and happiness, possibly affecting the community level of ‘Tznius’.
Aren’t we all one?
MOSHIACH NOW!
RED LINE
All we need to do (easier said than done) is to realize that our red line needs to be a bit higher.
WELL PUT! by by collectively elevating our “RED LINES” those who push the limits have less distance to push!!
its all relative to the overall average standard, and where each person feels they belong,
so ever single individual CAN AFFECT the overall average and by extension pull back the “collective” red line!
would like to hear the original
so what’s the bottom line?
was it recorded? and how can we get a copy?
lets get down to business
The weather has been bringing out the worst!
I cant understand why these women cover the hair (of sorts) and leave the rest of their bodies bare.
Former mayor guilliani had a radio program where he threatened to start naming ‘johns’. maybe we should start posting the tznius offenders?
roc
To the first commenter: just because a guy has a beard and a hat, doesn’t mean there aren’t areas in Tznius to fix in the house. There are chassidishe women who are sensitive to Tznius and there are chassidishe women who are not (but are open & receptive to improvement). Just because a woman is wearing a sheitel and long sleeves, doesn’t mean there aren’t other areas to fix (neckline, tightness, etc). Also, unfortunately, there are plenty of teenage girls with tznius issues coming from ultra frum houses.
Also, you would be surprised how many men do not know the basic halachos of Tznius. Shiurim are definitely one avenue that should and B”H is being used to IYH improve the situation.
A woman
What would the Rebbe say about this? I never heard of men getting involved in Tznius.
Everyone there, get a life!
Hoyisi
Rabbi Gancz knew that there are people like you out there, who will use the Rebbe to avoid and quash any thought of an effort to improve the Tznius situation, and therefore he came armed with many letters where the Rebbe could not have been clearer that it MUST be addressed, and not in undercover gatherings.
Men are getting involved in the Tznius of the women in their immediate families, towards whom they have the responsibility of setting standards, and encouraging and enforcing adherence to said standards.
to A WOMAN WROTE
B“H
Dear ”A Woman Wrote“:
You ”never heard of men getting involved in Tznius“? So now the MOTHERS are the only grand enforcers of how the children and teenagers dress? No input from the FATHERS? And the husbands should turn a blind eye if, G-d forbid, their wives are spending family money on non-tznius clothing for themselves??
You really think the Rebbe would DISAPPROVE of this kind of education and guidance to the husbands, fathers, and future husbands and fathers of this community???
I respectfully disagree with you.
PS — I don’t think the Rebbe would approve of your telling any other Yid to ”get a life,” over a matter like this, either.
CH Cares
THE ONLY WAY TO FIX THE SITUATION IS TO HAVE A FEW WOMAN ON KINGSTON AVE PATROLING. ANYTIME THEY SEE A WOMAN NOT DRESSED PROPERLY ONE WOMAN GOES OVER AND SAYS SOMTHING TO HE. WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THE WOMAN WONT WANT TO BE HARRASED SO EITHER THEY WILL DRESS PROPERLY OR AVOID KINGSTON AVE. IN A WEEK THE PROBLEM WILL BE SOLVED. WE NEED SOME VOLUNTEERS FOR A TZNIYUS PATROLL.
Mo
To Get a life.
You are obviously ashamsed of something.
hmmmm i wonder why it bothers you.
The problem is you dont think that men have any power in the home. and your right, these days with feminists like you, its a womans world, well get over yourself and stop being insecure. Lechaim!
Mother of teenage daughters
To roc:
I agree with you 100% about the teenage girls. We need to start enforcing tznius before they become teenagers and really stick to it; especially in the schools.B”H I can walk in the streets with my head held up high that I am dressed and act tzniusdik. Howeever I am having major problems with my rebellious teenage daughter who dresses accordingly in school and the minute she’s out davka goes the other way. The schools claim they enforce this outside also, but the girls know they don’t and laugh at the principals and teachers. I’m not even going to discuss how the teachers dress outside of school. There must NOT BE DOUBLE STANDARDS! And the girls must understand why tznius is necessary from an early age and this must constantly be reiterated.Maybe we should see why this is not an issue in BP and Williamsburg and act accordingly. Many years ago, Malka Tauger gave a shiur for BR mothers about tznius from her book and how to deal with our daughters.She then said that she was having a program for the high school girls on the subject. I asked the principal why not include Jr. High girls as they could really use it. She said they wouldn’t listen! I was shocked!! Maybe if they had enforced/encouraged it more then, my daughter and more than half her class wouldn’t be struggling with Tznius today!
SOME ATENTION HERE,PLEEEZ!!!!!
SOME ATTENTION HERE-PLEEZ!!!
every single jewish man who is married, has children, and/or is dating(or is about to go on the dating journey) should spend AT THE LEAST an hour a week learning the halachos,learning the zechusim,or just reading stories on how tznius affects the world. this is so important!!!!
pleez dont underestimate the affect it will have on yourselves, ur families-and the entire jewish people at large….
Shains
In my opinion Tzniuss is from with in our selves. If we respect ourselves we would dress better and be causios of it. We don’t need to be models of voque or cosmopolitan we need to be models of B’nos Ysroel we are different not like the rest of the world.
Listen
It’s very obvious that all of the commentors here were not actually at the speech. Rabbi Gancz did not give a tochacha speech to the worst offenders – that wasn’t his intention. Nor did he davka speak about necklines, sheitels, and skirt lengths. He spoke about things that apply to everyone in that room. To BNH- he spoke about talking during davening, keeping less than desirable language out of our shuls, and about speaking loshon hara.
Anyone who thinks that thay are “above” these things and that the speech should have been given only to those that “really” need to hear should know that it’s actually them to whom Rabbi Gancz was speaking.
b-h, how encouraging!!!!!!!!!!
this new awareness is amazing. please please continue with the shiurim, for the men and women and there is no doubt that we will start seeing a tremendous improvement. maybe just maybe there are women and girls who deep down know how terribly wrong and ugly this behaviour is and this will give them the push they need to make the neccessary changes.and in the mean time those who may be a little less challenged could perhaps make improvements in other areas as well.
b/c of all the choishech in the world we all have to work that much harder together to bring more oirh.
p.s. one thing we all know for certain is how the Rebbe really disapproved of this kind of untziniusdike dress!!!!!
chazak v-amaitz!
Thank you Rabbi Gancz for that great step you took in building a solid bridge of tznius between the fathers/husbands and their families. Your talk was both inspiring and informative. I was barely able to leave the place wanting to ingest more and fortifying myself before I came home to my family who I was shocked was waiting up to hear what you had shared. They soaked in every word!
Parents don’t deprive your family and friends of what is owed them. Tznius brings dignity and respect not degradation!
The Rebbe promises gezunt, parnassah and nachas from the children and grandchildren (according to Kabbalah) for tznius! I don’t think the Rebbe said such strong words of promise for anything else. See for your self in the letter to N’shei Chabad,1970, vol. 26.
Recording - CD
a recording of the shiur will be available shortly
it has to happen, finally
the tznius problem is the outward expression of a much bigger problem that is: not truly understanding how yiddishkeit truly enriches one’s life.
when one truly ‘gets’ yiddishkeit, s/he would truly understand how the mitzvos, including tznius, help her/him become the productive people s/he was intended to be.
tznius is about refinement. it is not about necklines and hems. but rather tznius is a way to be. to be truly refined, the torah tells us, one must be careful in the way one speaks, the way one acts in public, the way one dresses, etc. And the torah gives exact guidelines about refinement should be. there are halachos about speech (ex: shmiras halashon), about conducting oneself in public (ex: do not eat in the street), and how to dress (ex: certain parts of the body should not be revealed.), etc.
so let us focus our children’s (and adults’) learning on how the torah and mitzvot truly enhance and enrich our lives, in a real, meaningful, relevant and personal way! and then bderech mimeila, the clothing issues – and many other issues – will be resolved.
who can help design these curricula and ways to assess if the children are truly incorporating what they learn in school into their way of being?
THIS POST SAYS IT BEST
NOT A C.H.er wrote:
as an outsider to your community
i can echo the sentiment of soo many of my frum friends
who visit C.H!
they are embaressed for these young wives who
KNOW NOT the destinction between STYLE, CLASSY vs SLUTTY!
i admit to being on the trendy side my self
yet as a Beis Yaakov grad, i manage to dress stylish w/o degrading my self or thumbing my nose at halacha (g-d’s will)
“atrractive” denotes beutyful and good taste,
NOT LITERALLY -ATTRACTING- dressed to attract (turn heads) for the wrong reasons,
donning a BIG RED duns-cap is certainly attractive.!!! (it does ATTRACT) yet is not good taste, classy, respectful nor stylish!
CH ladies have a lot to learn from their self-respecting counterparts (sluchos) around the world, engaged in Uforatzto.
SELF EVIDENT
BH
i echo the the “root cause is low self respect”
unfortunately, the real problem is young women with deplorable self image issues
its got nothing at all todo with KNOWING the halachos
its got everything todo with knowing (thinking) that i am a worthless nothing and therfore anything goes,! RL
i’ve never met a Happy well adjusted young women with a craving to expose more than halacha allows
get to know any one of these women personally (let them open up to you) you’ll see, that behind those fake smiles is a “shattered-selfesteem” probably by a bully -teacher or student
these girls feel no shame b/c there is no inner (toichin) happiness for whatever reason (i’m not blaming them ch“v) frankly i know many of them personally , over time u come to discover whats really motivating them, its sad! very sad!
and has got nothing todo with knowledge or even the REBBE’S promisses of Joy Nachas, Harchava etc the emotion is soo deep that no rational thinking is relevant !!
the need for self denegrating attention is soo strong, no DRASHA can talk a girl out of it once they crossed that line!
again they are NOT BAD, they are hurting inside!
lacking the right attention from their own (clueles) husbands who have never been given any guidance on how to treat a wife and keep her (soul-heart) satasfied fulfilled and feeling cherished,
a truly happy women HAS NOT THE IMPULSE or TEMPTATION to dress in violation of halacha, self respect, and all the brachos promissed by the Rebbeh for MS”N on tznius
the problem is though that the truth hurts!
and i can only imagine that the DEFENSIVE NAME-CALLING ATTACKS THAT WILL FOLLOW IF MY COMMENTS ARE ACCURATE!! only someone whose cover was blown for the whole world to see would try to make up excuses to rationalize and justify and
why they are degrading themselves in public
like nothing more than a piece of meat , lacking any inner worthyness or dignity worth saving and cherishing for the special and appropreate place time and person!
lev
I moved out of C H a few years ago,I loved Crown Heights the only thing I did not like is the Tzniyus,
please G-d someone fix this problem that we should be prowd of C.H.
A mother, teacher and friend
To the one who cannot afford the tznius clothes:
Do you ever say “ I cannot afford kosher food-there is a non jewish butcher at the corner-I’ll go there, this way we can have veal for dinner instead of plain chicken” If we realize the importance of Tznius like ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT IF NOT MORE, then we will settle for 2 or 3 things to wear which are KOSHER in the eyes of Hashem, your children and your spouse, then 10 which are all no good.
And TRUST in Hashem that it is He Who provides all materialistic things in this world that He will provide for you. AMEN.
By the way, there are so many sales nowadays that you can get yourself clothing at Gap, Macys, Zara etc at great prices at the right seasons-always shop in the winter-it’s always Tznius.:)
Anonymous
I think that one of the problems is that many women and girls do not look at themselves in the mirror before they leave the house. If you looked at yourself before you leave and you see that your skirt is too short -( look into a shulchan oruch for the length ) or you neckline is too open or your elbows are showing ( again all you have to do is look into the shulchan oruch for the halocho) then you should not leave your house – one because you are a frum person and two because you are a lubavitcher and when you walk out like that you are shaming the Rebbe’s name. I don’t live in Crown Heights nor do I work there. I am a proud Lubavitcher and people want to know why don’t I look like one. So I answer that I do look like one – the ones that are not Tznius are the ones who are not Lubavicher chassidim. One more very important point is that a man who does not tell his wife and daughters that they are not tznius is lacking in Yiras shamayim and also probably does not love them. So yes all men should go to these shiurim and also these shiurim should be given to bochurim as well.
Have a good shabbos and Hashem should give everyone the strength to overcome this horrible problem.
Moshiach Now!!
anonymous
My daughter was a counselor in Camp Emunah when she told her camper to tell her mother to give her more socks since she also needs socks for walking to the pool. And her mother questioned her in front of my daughter, and made a face – mocking the rule. And she even had the chutzpa to verbalize what she felt…..in other words yes it certainly most of the time comes from the home. By the way that girl had no problem walking around the bunk house almost naked. and she was almost bas mitzvah.
thank you c.h. it-s about time.
i think alot of women might think that being tzniusdik immediatly means looking “nerdy”, “nebby” etc.
why? why is it that one can not look perfectly trendy,stylish, fashionable,cute,
with it etc….. AND be perfectly tznius at the same time? there is absolutly no contradiction as long as you abide by all the laws of tnius.
“women don’t be afraid of dressing tziusdik, chances are you will look even better.(one thing for sure, you will most certainly feel better!!!!!!!!)”
am i right????
anonymous
the responses are astonishing.
so positive,and so charged with excitement over this new awareness and begining.
we should all continue to grow and go mechail el choil and bring the Rebbe much deserved nachas from us all.
evening of inspiration
Can something like this be arranged for women too? We too are thirsting for an evening of inspiration and guidance like this!
Boruch N. Hoffinger
BS“D
To ‘it has to happen, finally’
Excellent, excellent!
That’s the point!
How about jean skirts, are they ‘Tznius?’
NO!
If a Jew or Jewess (Lubavitcher who learns Chassidus!) felt G-d’s presence around
them, as they are supposed to, they would NEVER
DRESS THIS WAY IN THE PRESENCE OF A KING!
THEY DON’T FEEL THIS! LACK OF DAAT!
This is a spiritually lowly generation. The Rebbe, MH”M,
said this. We are gilgulim of the generation that left
Egypt and they were steeped in idolatry.
me
Tznius cannot be enforced or dictated. Anyone over the age of 15 will do as they wish. Lack of adherence to tradition and halcha roots in the educators and education both in shcool and at home from when the 15 year olds were 5. Oy Oying now…? Pffft.
You don’t like what someone else is wearing or doing? Too bad. Pay their grocery bill. Help them in areas they want to be helped.
been there and back
If we would worry about our own ruchnius and yenem’s gashmius,then things will turn themselves around!!
Mr. Batt
This is great!!! I just hope this is not a one time thing. Just the fact that this issue is being addressed shows that it is important. The Lubavitch way, is the way of love! The very Name Lubavitch, root is love. Our way is not fight or point fingers but to bring close to Torah. I am very happy with this and hope this is only the seed for building a great new future. Thank you and have a great Shabbos.
SADLY TRUE!!
the need for self denegrating attention is soo strong, no DRASHA can talk a girl out of it once they crossed that line!
again they are NOT BAD, they are hurting inside!
lacking the right attention from their own (clueles) husbands who have never been given any guidance on how to treat a wife and keep her (soul-heart) satasfied fulfilled and feeling cherished,
a truly happy women HAS NOT THE IMPULSE or TEMPTATION to dress in violation of halacha, self respect, and all the brachos promissed by the Rebbeh for MS”N on tznius
TO: been there and back
THE TZNIUS IMPLICATIONS ARE FAR MORE THAN “yenems ruchnius”
with repercussions on our children with far reaching consequences, vehameivin yovin!
your post is best debunked by the parable of the man who drills a hole in “HIS OWN” seat on the ship (i have the right, no one else’s business!
tznius again?!?!
Yes, it is all about chinuch. but not only chinuch about the halachos, but moreso, about the beauty and relevance of Torah – for each person individually.
We must try to inspire others to want to truly live a life of Torah and Chabad Chasidus of their own volition, not bully them.
So this type of lecture will work for a number of people. What other methods can we use to address the underlying issue for the others?
in klalei chinuch v’hadracha, the rebbe talks about looking at each person individually, understanding his inborn traits and circumstances, and then working out a way for the chinuch for that specific person.
Different people respond to different types of inspiration – chinuch al pi darko. but don’t forget it must be chinuch, and not bullying and bashing.
for some words like ‘repercussions on our children with far reaching consequences’ may be enough to inspire them to change the way they think, act and dress.
But others may just roll their eyes at words like that, and think ‘ yeah, in what way?… and anyway I don’t care if my children dress this way, so there!’ Some people need more answers. They want to know how these words we spew about are really relevant to their very real lives. That they are not just words but really help us be the best people.
So the various tznius vaads should continue with their holy work, but they must also include many other modes of inspiration to reach every individual in their own specific circumstances.
your family in miami
go shimon hellin ger for putting it togather we are verey proud of you
Shulamit
I can’t even begin to voice my disgust about the idea of a “tzniut police” on Kingston. When I was in seminary I was stopped not once but TWICE by women in the street telling me my clothing was untzniut (skirt was “too bright a pink” and my conservative, button-down white blouse “is far too short for bending down”). It was so irritating! I don’t think the way any one of us dresses is the business of ANYONE else, maybe save our spouses, since they are our partners in life. Remember – this is AMERICA. We are BH free to wear whatever we desire. Most of the time, CH women who are “untzniut” are actually more modest than 99% of women in the country. We should commend them for their efforts and realize that that is the extent of their commitment to tzniut. To each her own. Instead of acting with love toward our fellow residents of the shechuna, so many times we fail and are self-righteous and holier than thou. Let’s all work on ourselves first. If you don’t like the styles in Kingston, walk on a different street or go live in Boro Park.
Totty whadya think about this outfit?
in my humble opinion id say half the amount of men there had at least one or two or even three daughters, young older doesnt matter, a father in a daughters eyes is very respected and if he had a heart to heart with his “young” girl he would be very influential in how she thought of herself and therefore how she would portray herself!! As the daughter of my father I thank him for his time and examples and no im not perfect but b”h he helped instill in me a sensitivity! I love you Totty!
PREVENTION via ATTENTION!!
the more attention from TATTY (aka DADDY) THE LESS MALE-ATTENTION-ISSUES for your daughters, latter on in life!!
you’ll never find a daughter with such problems if she got plenty of input and time with her father,
anonymous
why do you think that our women suffer from unhappiness, low self esteem hurting inside, lack of attention from husband and so on……..
there are those who suggested that these are some of the reasons why we are seeing such problems in our community.are the women everywhere else so much happier and get sooooo much more attention from there husbands etc?
all ican say is that it is so mean and selfish for those who dress this way b/c it affects those around them especially our kids!!!!
please STOP no matter what your reasoning may be!!!
RD Shlucha
Wow that is indeed a first step and a big one at that. Iy“h these shiurim will iy”h have a ripple effect. Since the husbands will discuss , review and tell it over till the desired results are accomplished.
Keep it up, atlast something is being done.
May these inyanim grow just continue to grow mechyil el choyil from strength to strength.
Moshiach mamesh
AC
With all the great responses, I am a bit bothered. Since I am not a “commentator”, is commentating and being on the intenet a tzinus thing??.
to: shulamit!! WRONG100%
THE WAY YOU DRESS ON KINGSTON HAS A BIG IMPACT ON OUR CHILDREN!!
YOU PREACH ABOUT RESPECT AND AHAVAS YISROEL!!
WHEN A WOMEN HAS NO RESPECT OR AHVAS YIS. FOR THE FEELINGS AND SENSITIVITIES OF THE MANY PPL THEY ARE HURTING BY DRESSING PROVOCATIVELY IN FRONT OF OUR CHILDREN!!
IN FRONT OF OUR BOCHURIM, AND YES HUSBANDS,
IN THE PAST MEN NEW WHICH STREETS TO AVOID IN MANHATTAN, SO AS NOT TO BE FACED WITH BARRAGE OF SHMUTZ ETC!!
WHY SHOULD OUR OWN STREETS BE DEGRADED (SELFISHLY) BY THOSE WHO HAVE NO RESPECT FOR (THEMSELVES) THEIR COMMUNITY, THE REBBEH, OR CHABAD’S DIGNITY!!
HOW ABOUT BEING CONSIDERATE TO THE RESIDENTS WHO CHOSE TO LIVE IN C.H. NOT 42ND STREET, SHOW SOME CONSIDERATION, FOR SOO MANY OTHERS YOU ARE HURTING AND OFFENDING!! AND R”L WORSE VDAL
to:SOME ATENTION HERE,PLEEEZ!!!!! wrote:
u r right!! been there done that!
i’ve improved my atire simply by learning the brochos promissed by the rebbeh! ive seen the rwards first hand, ladies do it for the sake of your children and your bank account, our rebbeh never speaks hyperbole!!! if he said it, he always was proven true at the end!!
CAME FULL CIRCLE
I AGREE, TRY IT, YOU’LL BUY IT!!
PUT THE REBBEH’S PROMISES TO THE TEST FOR A WEEK,
SEE IF THE REWARDS YOU WERE DENYING YOURSELF FOR SOO LONG WAS WORTH IT!!
I FOR ONE HAVE LEARNED THE HARD WAY!, YOU DON’T SEE BLESSINGS WHEN YOU NEGATE THE REBBE’S “BAKASHA NAFSHIS”!!
IF YOU NEED CONVINCING, SIMPLY TRY IT OUT, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOOSE, AND YOU’LL BE SURE OF YOURSELF FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE!! YOU WONT HAVE TO SECOND GUESS YOUR DECISIONS!
C.H. = THE BOTTOM OF THE PAIL! PSOILES
please please dont the ENTIRE CHABAD COMMUNITY by the 10% bottom of the pail leftover in C.H.
with the exception of some, (directed to stay in C.H.) the vast majority of C.H.ers are the “unfit” or “unwilling” to go out b’MS“N on shlichus, (a life of meaning and yidisheh joy,)
instead they are the 10% who simply need more guidance and kiruv,
(my comments pertain exclusively to those in C.H. that they apply to! not to ALL the residents, rather a large unfortunate percentage)
my comments are meant to set the record streight about the issue of C.H defamming the Rebbeh’s name and kavod,
quite the opposite! c.h. demonstrates for all to see, the difference between, the 90% and the 10%, and why going on shlichus saves lives (your own as well)
in life your either a ”mashpia“ or ”mekabel”
i feel much sympathy for any women compelled to dress in a self denigrating manner, (it speaks volumes abbot her self and emptiness)
do some shlichus and you’ll feel much better about yourself!
beis yaakov, REBBI FAN
yup agree thousand percent!!! these soo called tznius-challenged are nothing more than bratty selfish inconsiderate snobs, devoid of any respect for their own body, or the neighborhood they live in, shame on you all! i’m not even a chabatzker! yet i feel the betrayal that the self respecting women must feel!!
how dare you be so cold blooded!
bring moshich
Crown hights is becoming more and more modern orthodox or semi reform wake up and act acording to halacha and lets be
pushete Erlicha yiden
HELP TZNIUS BY TRAINING CHASANIM! SKILLS
the need for self denegrating attention is soo strong, no DRASHA can talk a girl out of it once they crossed that line!
again they are NOT BAD, they are hurting inside!
lacking the right attention from their own (clueles) husbands who have never been given any guidance on how to treat a wife and keep her (soul-heart) satasfied fulfilled and feeling cherished,
a truly happy women HAS NOT THE IMPULSE nor TEMPTATION to dress in violation of halacha, self respect, and all the brachos promissed by the Rebbeh for MS”N on tznius
the problem is though that the truth hurts!
Mr. Batt
One of my dear frends once remarked to me that one of the biggest achivements of the past 60 years is that Chabad Ladies took upon themself to cover their hair with a shaital. It is easier to look for problems in others.
elisheva
It seems to me like the opposite of tznius, to teach men the details of what to look for on a woman, let alone bochurim!!!!! For what, so they can look at us even more? Teach the mothers and let them handle it. You want tznius? AVERT YOUR EYES.
I once heard a wonderful rav (sorry I can’t remember his name) give a long talk on kevod Shabbos, he went into great detail about the different ways a man can honor Shabbos with better clothing, different hat etc and the beautiful customs men in various communities have. About the women he said, “I’m sure they do something special too, but as to the details, I wouldn’t know.” As a married man, that couldn’t actually be true – I’m sure he does know what his wife wears – but he was too tznius to even speak of it. And he has enough respect for women to know we can handle our own affairs.
Also how is it tznius to have dozens of big photos of yourselves all sitting around for every little event.
nomoreCampGanforus
Hey dudes, whats really amazing is your proprietary attitude to Crown heights = people coming to “our” neighborhood and “disrespecting us and our children”.
Crown heights used to be a neighborhood with reform and Cons and MO jews. One your big yeshivos on Eastern Parkway used to be the Brooklyn Jewish Center. YOU chabadniks are in OUR neighborhood, dress in ways WE didnt necesssarily want our children seeing.
And you come to OUR neighborhoods across the USA trying to attract OUR children to become Chabad.
Somebody is wearing a loose headscarf on Kingson? Deal with it.