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Pages Stolen from the ‘Chassanims’ Siddur

Any Chosson davening Mincha on his wedding day seeks out this Siddur, its 60 years old and was used by both the Rebbe and the Frierdiker Rebbe, and the Rebbe used to give it to Chassanim to daven from at Mincha before their Chuppah. Upon inspecting the Siddur recently Rabbi Leibel Groner made a shocking discovery, a number of pages were stolen.

Rabbi Groner explained that given the Siddurs age, and the Rebbe refusing to let it be properly bound, many of the pages are loose, and one of the Chassanim who used the Siddur recently helped himself to four pages of Krias Shema Sheal Hamita from the Siddur.

In 1987 the Rebbe said a Sicha in which he addressed the matter of individual taking things from the ‘households of the rabbaim’ without permission, and that possessing them is like having a bomb in your house. Rabbi Groner said “I really don’t want anyone to have a bomb in their house” and implored that the pages be returned, he said that they can be dropped off at his house at 1649 President Street.

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61 Comments

  • Simple Solution

    Rabbi Groner should make a deadline for it to be returned, if it won’t be returned then he should publicize who the Ganev is.

    Nobody wants the suffix ‘Ganev’ added to their name, I’m sure it will be returned in no time.

  • miami beach bum

    Isn’t it entirely possible that the pages fell out unsuspectingly? How do you know that someone “helped themselves” to this?

  • Rabbi groner

    Isn’t this siddur, supposed to be in the study libarary??? If so then the person who took it is hagonev mehaganov.

  • not impressed

    how could whoever took the pages sleep at night knowing that he stole from a tzaddik?

  • Dovid

    Does L.G not relies that he himself has ZERO permission to hold the Rebbes Siddur!!!!! he is the one with the live bomb!! Which EXPLODED in his face!! He has to give it to the library of Aguc”h immediately. if he doesn’t the Executer of the Rebbes Will, Rabbi Krinsky has the responsibly to take him to court just like they took Barry Gurarie!

  • let-s be honest

    there are 2 siddurim used for chossanim. one is this siddur, that the meshichisten take from rabbi groner. the second is the one that most people take from rabbi gansbourg. by process of elimination, if rabbi groner caught the fact that there are pages missing………. v’dal

  • to #3

    Obviously you’ve never used the Rebbe’s siddur… Pages don’t fall out “unsuspectingly” LOL.

  • Important Comment!

    It is a tremonoudes Chutzpa for anyone to steal theses pages. But…..it must be noted that this Siddur is not supposed to be in the possetion of Rabbi Groner in the first place. Per the Rebbe’s will – he was supposed to hand it over to Agudas Chasedi Chabad and he refused. So whatever goes around comes around….

    In ANY case: These few pages MUSt be returned back to the Siddur! it’s pure Geneyva….

  • i agree

    i agree with Miami Beach Bum
    it says in the arcticle the pages were loose…maybe they fell out and no one notice

  • Berl

    What is the Halachah regarding someone who steals something from a Ganev?

    Just wondering…

  • I agree with number 3

    I suspect these pages fell out unsuspectingly. I used the Siddur about a year and a half ago when I got married, and the pages then were mostly disconnected from the cover. They could have easily fallen out. Perhaps he should do a thorough search of the area.

  • Shlome Seldowwitz

    There are people that value these special Rebbe items, called ‘mimush’ for illogical reasons.

    It can be stealing, ganeiva… it can be against the Rebbe’s will… but in the eyes of the person’s friends, the person boasts of having an article of ‘mimush’, that no one else has.

    Though it will be unpopular at first, I think these special artifacts must be put safely in the Rebbe’s library, and never again to be entrusted to people who call themselves ‘chassidim’.

  • lebedike bombe

    Let the thief know that he is no better than b gourary and his mother, and he’s no less at risk than a guy sitting on a bomb , if he believes in the person who owns the siddur, he should know that the last guy who stole sforim today regretted it bitterly, does he wanna followin that line?

  • The Tzemach Tzedeck said

    When the Sefer Shel Tzadikim was lost in the fire, The Rebbe asked “were is the mesiras nefesh”

  • CN

    I remember getting the siddur from the Rebbe (along with 3 other chasanim) 18 years ago, and many pages were falling out then. Kal v’chomer in the past 18 years. It doesn’t make any sense that a choson would steal them. Sounds like they inadvertently fell out.

  • A Shliach

    To #3:

    Are you a moron?!
    It probably was a printing error and was never there to begin with…….

    RLG probably doesn’t know who took it as many chasanim used it in the recent past.

  • A Chassidishe Gneiveh

    What does Rabbi Groner use now for Krias shma Al Hamito?
    How would he know these pages are missing if he did’nt look for them?

  • Heiligeh South Beacher

    You truly are a bum…Asking us to give someone the benefit of the doubt that they mistakenly fell out… Yeah right… This isn’t a fairy tale world!!

  • yankel

    well with all due respect the rebbe never gave rabbi groner this siddue the siddur should go back to the rebbes room and thats where the chassanim should get it every day! being a mazkir does not mean you get to take stuff from the rebbe for yourself
    as far as i know rabbi chadakov mindel klein never took anything for themselves or for their families

  • Shlome Seldowwitz

    To #5
    What does this have to do with it?
    A chassidishe geneiva is sacred.
    Petty larceny is not.

  • levi

    well this is a question for a rov. VIDAL…

    i just hope RLG and the guy that took the pages bring it back to the libary where it belongs to begin with.

  • shnoozy

    wow such mesiras nefesh. he says he doesnt eant anyone to have a bomb in their house, so he says to drop it off at his home instead.

  • oiss vorff

    yes thewre are more then one siddur . and i love it the first moment , u guys get to knock r. groner u take yr shot like y krinsky is a tzadik ? come on leave them alone , u were not hierd by the Rebba , and stop taking sides , i rember when yudel was not driveing the Rebba , it was leibel that asked 4 him back , now smoke that

  • MATCHSTICK

    These pages seemingly are missing for a good reason otherwise, hashem would not have alowed it to happen

  • chutzpah

    when i used the siddur RLG gave me HIS siddur torah ohr, he said it was because people stole pages!!
    it is sickening to think people, before their chasunah, saying al cheit, could steal from the Rebbes siddur… where is the conscience

  • Shlome Seldowwitz

    To number 4:
    A person is judged by his or her words.
    What you wrote is more than stupid.
    Are you married? I pity her to have a husband like you.

  • TO #32

    Let me ask you. why did RLG not a deal with letters for yrs. in the 1960’s and 70’s. check it out and you will know what really was happening then.

  • also from miami

    to # 22, if you’re so “heilige” then you should know we’re supposed to be dan l’chaf zechus. and you would also know we’re supposed to have ahavas yisroel.

  • out of towner

    for all you anti harav hakodosh harav lebel groner how dear you utter a bad word against a man that stood beside the rebbe for so many years i dont care if your anti or not anti halevai you were 1 percent mikusher to the rebbe like rabbi groner was and is to be carefull what you say !!!

  • chassidishe geneiva

    What the rebbe said about having “bombs” was regarding seforim that were stolen with no respect for what the are and who they belong to, only for monetary gain. Who said the same applies to a ‘Chassidishe geneivah’?

  • Shlome Seldowwitz

    To number 38:

    Judging a person favorably is a conditional halacha brought by the Alter Rebbe.

    If a person as muchzak to harm the rabim by stealing commonly owned property now, and has done before, then no limud zchus is required. Adaraba.

  • ash

    BS”D
    if stolen, please be a Tzaddik to return them annonymusly in an envelope with no name, and that will be it.
    but also, like many others said if it fell out then what? but seriously it will not help to have pages of a siddur that I would like to Daven with before my Chassuna. Please bring them back :) Actually, such a nissayon is a big Brocha and whoever returns them can reach huge heights. If they were “stolen” someone was probably overwhelmed with the Kedusha of the book, and couldnt help themselves! now they have another chance to bring the Kedusha back, adding more vitality and Holiness to this Holy book.

  • oiss vorff

    years ago the REBBA would give out his gartell, to chasaniem to daven mincha, ..so littel by littel string by string there was no more gartel ,
    then the REBBA started to give out his siddur, now what ?
    chasideim always stole in the name of chasidus, thats life ,its wrong , but its been going on for centrys

  • to dovid in number 7

    do you not release how smart you sound. YOU SOUND LIKE A FIRST CLASS IDIOT

  • QUESTION

    Does anybody know who has the Rebbe personal belongings such as his talis and tefillin?

  • disappointed

    Surprise surprise surprise! #1 that someone would take pages from this siddur not! #2 that people would bash R.Groner not!If shluchim or out of town Anash posees a sefer torah or more than one that belongs to 770 It does not surprise me that someone would take pages from this siddur.To blame R. Groner wrong & low He was Moser Nefesh & stood by the Rebbe all these years day & night.The siddur is much older than 60 yrs old NO? In any case The ganavim need to return the pages from The Rebbe’s siddur & the sifrei Torah that belong in 770 including Pinson’s Sefer

  • chassidishe geneiva

    There are plenty of stories about ‘chassidishe geneivas’ that were looked on positively.
    But lubavitch of the 21st century has things figured out differently. Our new shitas are based on “OMG! It’s, like, so WRONG to steal! What would the rebbuh say?”

  • Mendy In Midwest

    even if Hagoinev min haganov is patur

    it’s only from keifel and 4&5…

    and I don’t care who is holding the siddur
    it’s the siddur that the rebbe reyatz gave our holy Rebbe ZMO
    (zechuso(m) Megim Oleinu) …so bring them back you shtick beheime or you will pay the price it IS “a live bomb!!!”

  • seriously?

    many of you commenters are disguisting! You really think you can blame others before you know the whole truth? seriously?! Grow up! Know the facts before you blame others! you cant judge people and think they are theives and still call yourself chassidim! the pages probably fell out considering how old the book is. And if the “stealing” as many of you believe really took place – you geniuses, this happened at a wedding and several people are bound to catch it.

  • ENOUGH

    Everyone wonders why moshiach is not hear yet. people have to think about what they say. weather right or wrong, go back to Sulchan Aruch and the words of the Rebbe about what we should say about other people. THINK HARD.

  • Shlome Seldowwitz

    Some people here misuse the term “chassische ganeiva”.

    They think that if the culprit appears to be a chossid, with wool tzizis out, learns chitas and Rambam, kochs in mivtzoyim etc., then when he steals an object of the Rebbe, it’s a chassidische ganeiva.

    This ia an error.

    A chassidische ganeiva is to take without permission an object of the Rebbe for the sake of all chassidim, that would be otherwise destroyed. This alone is a chassidische ganeiva.

    What has occurred is purely an act of selfishness. As meseches Bava Metzia daf 2 amud beis says about a ganeif, he or she is moreh heter l’atzmo, makes up for himself an excuse that it is allowed, and even holy.

    The thinking of some people who call themselves chassidim explain why the Rebbe sent some to be shluchim, and some that he kept behind because he was embarassed of them.

    Then, he kept other fine people to mashpiya on them.

  • ???

    If the pages fell out, wouldn’t somebody bend down and pick them up? Where could the pages be?

  • BEWARE

    A MAN TOLD ME THAT THE REBBE GAVE HIM THE SIDDUR TO DAVEN WITH WHEN HE WAS A CHASSAN. A LITTLE PIECE FROM THE PAGE OF SHEMA FELL OFF AS HE WAS DAVENING AND HE DECIDED TO KEEP IT. HE SAID FOR 4 MONTH HE WASN’T ABLE TO SLEEP AS HE WAS BOMBARDED WITH HORRIFIC NIGHTMARES. HE BROUGHT THE PIECE OF THE PAGE BACK, AND WHEN HE HANDED IT TO R.KLEIN, HE TOLD HIM THAT THEY HAD BEEN LOOKING FOR THAT PIECE.
    CARRIER OF THE MISSING PAGES BEWARE!

  • chassidishe geneiva

    to 55: “A chassidische ganeiva is to take without permission an object of the Rebbe for the sake of all chassidim, THAT WOULD OTHERWISE BE DESTROYED.”
    Where did you get such a ridiculous idea? Chassidishe geneiva means to save seforim from the shredder?! There was a story where one of the rabbeim said if they WOULD HAVE done a chassidishe geneiva, they wouldn’t have been burned.

  • actually

    well, for all those saying the siddur belongs to aguch without rabbi groner there the siddur would be long gone. appreciate rabbi groner for organizing and safeguarding…