My objective was not to inflame the rampant fires that have engulfed us all, but rather to point out the fervor of dissention that we have witnessed since the elections three years ago. I did not place the blame on any one Rov, and had no intention of publicly besmirching a Rov. I simply noted that this public debacle began at that time.
It is regretful that those that wish to misconstrue my words are using them as fodder for further controversy.
Challenges to our community
In response to the numerous comments that have been posted to my previous letters, i would like to address some of them and hope that this letter will clarify the purpose of my original letters.
My objective was not to inflame the rampant fires that have engulfed us all, but rather to point out the fervor of dissention that we have witnessed since the elections three years ago. I did not place the blame on any one Rov, and had no intention of publicly besmirching a Rov. I simply noted that this public debacle began at that time.
It is regretful that those that wish to misconstrue my words are using them as fodder for further controversy.
After spending untold time on various issues in the community (the riots of 1991, Vaad Hakohol, the agonizing events prior and post Gimmel Tammuz, ULY board member) and suffering various consequences due my involvement, I had decided to bow out of the public sector and lead a non-involved lifestyle. This was something that my family wished especially after my heart surgery.
My attitude to all issues since then has been one of live and let live. Let people believe what they wish without condemnation, as long as they are not infringing upon the beliefs of others and trying to force their beliefs on others.
I believe that the true interpretation of Ahavas Yisroel is not when a person feels or does something good to a person in need, a sick person, a poor person, etc. etc. the feelings that you have in those cases is an inherent part of a persons nature. True Ahavas Yisroel is when you practice goodness to someone that you dislike for whatever reason that may be.
The issue that incensed me to publicly write a letter was the shameful act that occurred in Bais Rabbeinu on Rosh Hashana. No one, but no one except those mandated to do so (Gabbaim and Rabbonim) has the right to get up in a Shul. Especially Bais Rabbenu and make a public announcement of any type. How much more so to do this vile act on Rosh Hashana.
There is no justification under any circumstances for condoning this deplorable act. I noticed that one of the comments to my letter stated that “thousands protested the Aliya”. I don’t know which Shul that person was in but it was not in 770. I was there and as everyone else there witnessed this protest was started by one person and supported by a small group of hecklers. Another comment blames one Rov for not asking the person receiving the Aliya to step down. Besides the Halachic problem of this person having already being called up for the Aliya, why doesn’t this person question as to why the other Rov did nothing to silence this blasphemous outburst?
Unfortunately we again witnessed on our holiest day of the year, in the holiest of places, at the most climatic moment in our lives – the culmination of N’ilah when we all declare seven times – Hashem Hu Haelokim a complete disregard for even the rabbinic ruling of an ardent Mashiachist Horav K. Y. Marlowe Zatza”l that vehemently penned a strong letter against saying Yechi at that time.
To get to the main point, and not continue to harp on who is right or who is wrong, we must all come to the realization that we have a situation that is tearing us apart. The feedback that I have received (and the comments on the web are just a small percentage compared to what I have heard directly from people) shows me that there is a “silent majority” out there that is fed up with all that is transpiring. This silent majority wants peace and Achdus. They want to see a sense of tranquility and concrete efforts to improve the lifestyle of our community both spiritually and materialistically. We must resolve this “Ad Mosai” before we clamor and shout for the ultimate Ad Mosai.
The burden rests upon the shoulders of both of the Rabonim to resolve any issues that separate them and bring cohesiveness to the Bais Din. At the same time “all” the members of the Vaad Hakahal must resolve their issues and form a unified front in accomplishing their designated tasks.
If all the detractors involved would either bud out or refocus their efforts towards that goal we have a hope of unity.
Since it seems that the status between the Rabonim and between the members of the Vaad have reached a point of irreconcilable differences it might be suggested that a group of impartial Rabonim from out of town mediate the situation with the Rabonim and that a group of impartial Yungerleit mediate the situation with the Vaad Hakahal.
I think that the silent majority has to speak up in a respectful manner, whether by petition or referendum, and let bodies, the Bais Din and the Vaad, know that the whole Kehilla is respectfully demanding that these controversies be resolved.
A unified Bais Din and Vaad are the only solution to bring forth the efforts that are needed to unite our community.
May the fervor and joy of the incoming Chag Simchoseinu permeate our feelings and bring unity to all of us.
sick of it all
I wholeheartedly agree with these sentiments. I’m just glad you wrote it in an Englsh we can all understand. Of course, the crazies in 770 are often, but not exclusively, foreigners, so they probably won’t read it.
According to my son, there was a "cease-fire" on Yom Kippur. What have we come to?
The rabbonim need to be visibly seen to be united. I don’t give a flying chicken if they really hate each other’s guts…hide it, & show Achdus to the people you’re supposed to lead.
Fish rots from the head, so they say.
May G-d help us all.
silent no longer
How can the silent majority express themselves in a meaningful and respectful way which will produce results?
Annoymous
Well written
shlucha
I have tremendous admiration that you spoke out. I wish someone like you would speak out about the problems affecting shluchim that are being wiped off the map (website) for no reason, no din Torah and no process. What ever happened to "we are all children of one father?"
Dovy
"a group of impartial rabbonim….."
This is what has been requested by Rabbi Shvei all along, that the matter be brought to Zabla.(an impartial B"D where each side choose a Rov and the 2 Rabbanim then choose a shlish.}
Itzik_s
Since it seems that the status between the Rabonim and between the members of the Vaad have reached a point of irreconcilable differences it might be suggested that a group of impartial Rabonim from out of town mediate the situation with the Rabonim and that a group of impartial Yungerleit mediate the situation with the Vaad Hakahal.
————————————
Sounds like a constructive way to solve the problem, but the Vaad Hakahal structure also needs to be revamped.
DEBACLE
SHLOIME YOU WROTE: I did not place the blame on any one Rov, and had no intention of publicly besmirching a Rov. I simply noted that this public debacle began at that time.
YOU WRONG AGAIN!!! THIS DEBACLE STARTED WHEN RABBI MARLOW A"H WAS NIFTAR MUCH WAY BEFORE RABBI SCHWEI GOT TO WORK IN THE BEIS DIN. IF YOU SPEAK TO THE THEN VAAD HAKOHOL MEMEBERS (CHAZAN, FRIEDFERTIK, NASH, ELBERG, SPERLIN, WASSERMAN) YOU WILL FIND OUT EXACTLY WHAT AND WHO CAUSED THE BEGINING OF THIS DEBACLE. AS RABBI YITCHOK ZIRKIND THEN SAID THAT "THE TAKING AWAY KASHRUS FROM THE KEHILE WILL MAKE A CHURBN IN CH" AND HE WAS 100% RIGHT!!!
annonymous for the sake of my kids
You know, as a remarried divorce, it was very hard for me to do the right thing. I made friends with husbands ex wife, and will be seen in public talking to her. It was not easy, but it was the RIGHT THING TO DO. (I can tell u about the laundry list of things I have against her. I know I am right, but sometimes it is better to be smart, than to be right.) When I walked with her to shul, to show the kids, that they dont have to choose, I can tell you that it was very hard. I did it, cuz I want what is best. This is on the smallest scale.
But when the two rabbonim, will have the gumption to show that they are not fighting, when they will walk to shul together, and be seen on friendly terms with each other in public, us their children, will not have to choose, and we wont have to deal with this kind of Machlokes. Sometimes, ppl need to step on their egos a bit. Its hard,, but I see that as the only solution.
impressed again
once again, yaher koach,
this direct, kind, and non judgmental approach to dealing with conflict is commendable. such is a chossid.
continue voicing OUR opinions and making the rebbe proud.
He is certaintly proud of u.
Chaim T
I heard these proposals before and think they are way too ambitious. Besides, the very same person who destroyed the whole community would not let this proposal to fulfill. My best hope is next Vaad elections; does anyone know when it is? I just hope it will be fare. I would vote for someone with such proposal, may be even for Drimmer if he is honest in his desire to make peace. (I voted for present rosh just because I bought into what he was saying about the piece, I hope I will not do same mistake again) It is ok Drimmer has some lenience to one of the sides as long as there will be some other balanced candidate that has lenience to the other side. I think Drimmer/Fredfirteg could make a great tandem. Fredfertig is a little wild but he is pure ahavas yisroel.
someone else
good jop reb shloime drimmer keep it up
Emes Ma-eretz Titzmach
Listen Drimmer, you wrote what you wrote, it was clearcut as to on whom you placed the blame for our present situation. By attempting to extricate yourself from the pit you dug youself will just confound matters and push you further down. Our sages teach us, "chachamim hizaharu b’divreichem", in your haste to accommodate certain nefarious individuals whose only purpose is to emerge victorious at all costs, you became blinded and threw all caution to the wind.Your intentions might have been pure, but the effect your letter had was to set back any peace entreaties for several months. In essence, your letter torpedoed any chance that the Rabbanim had to settle this thing amicably. Now they will have to resort to the last recourse available, settle their differences by a third party. Mr Drimmer: Please don’t insult our intelligence by your statementand I quote you "It is regretful that those that wish to misconstrue my words are using them as fodder for further controversy". YOUR words have emboldened, strenghtened, enswaggered and lent support to the audacity of those who are intent on destroying – through various strong arm tactics being implemented at this time -one Rov of the Badatz in favor of another Rov. Again, you are attempting to deflect criticism of yourself and shirking responsibility of your actions by pointing fingers at those who are indignant and disappointed by your words.
V’es vahev B’sufah, Ahavah B’sof, in the end Ahavas Yisrael, Ahavas Reim will prevail,
Goot Yom Tov Goot Yohr A Freilichen Tamid
Motkeh
Reb Drimmer,
You might be a tad uninformed, the whole todo is being caused by nepotism which is plaguing and afflicting the rabbinate and the Vaad Hakashrus. Same goes for the Vaad Hakashrus. The intricate connection of the rabbinate vaad hakashrus and the vaad hakahal namely The connection of ONE of the Rabbonim to hiring policies in the Rabbinate, the connection of the Aadministrator of the vaad hakashrus to agri proccessors and the connection of the chairman of the vaad hakahal who’s father owns agri to the Rabbinate and to the vaad hakashrus is the crux of the problem. There is no objective decision making not in the rabbinate, not in the vaad hakashrus nor in the vaad hakahal. The present administrators consider the above as their own personal asset, not as belonging to the community, they adhere to policies practiced in the private sector, do not treat these entities as communal property, THAT is the reson for all the fighting. It is impossible to differentiate right from wrong when you are caught up in such a web. When a person believes that someone is trying to take away his personal property, he will fight like an alleycat to retain it. Hence all the machloikes. It all started when the vaad hakahal respectfully requested that the vaad hakashrus remain under community supervision but where told that it belongs to a private entity. Subsequently, a din torah was seated and the decision was that the the Kashrus categorically should immediately returned to the community. The mediators where pressured into revoking their decision by those who where in possesion of the kashrus at that time and all h-ll broke loose. please don’t try to rewrite history. These are the facts, all other bubeh maises are lies distorted truth and self serving hogwash.
netzig
next elections for vaad and gabboim,if it will be one, should be yi"h in Shvat of 5768.
lizman
shlomie
all the credit for your 2 letters.and maybe you want to arrange th groups to fix the problems. like getting the "silent majority" involved.
i think you have the respect from the community to make a group of people to get this done.
i am sure if posted an email for volunteers you will get alot of respectable people
chazak chazak
MB
As someone who has known Mr. Drimmer for many years, I can attest first hand to his selflessness and devotion to the Rebbe and to Crown Heights as a whole.
Crown Heights residents should take his attempt at rectifying our current problems and run with it. He explicitly states that he is/was from the other ‘side’ and none the less still feels there’s a problem. And he was willing to put his name to it.
Mr. Drimmer has been a longtime friend of Crown Heights and has only the best intentions in mind.
All you naysayer’s and criticizers, the same people who spend countless hours discussing the in-fighting, are the same people who have yet to contribute anything positive to the neighborhood.
Use you energy to pick up where he left off and spend your time constructively trying to fix the problem.
Samuel
To MB,
Your missing the point, nobody doubts Mr Drimmers intention. Those you characterize as criticizers and naysayers are only trying to point out the error he made in bringing forth his opinion. Your blanket statement about those who question his METHODS and your ignorant and uninformed dig about contribution to the neighborhood expose you as being part of the problem.
Bacharach
Until this point we engaged in a peaceful high road dialogue until MB came along. The barbs contained in your post are typical of those in the neighborhood who goad people into personally attacking others.That is most probably the extent of your contribution to the Shechunah. Kol haPoisel b’Mumoi Poisel.
chasid
there are such tzarois in lubavitch these days cant ppl realize whats going on
stop machloikes and DRESS TZNIUSDIK
A friend of Yours
To Shloime,
Several points:
Achdus comes about when there is equality. Sholom Bayis comes around when there is mutual respect between both parties. I stress equal and mutual. These factors are the vehicle to achdus and the lack of them are the obstacles to achdus.
In order for sholom to reign in our neighborhood, the neighborhood of the Rebbe, we must follow his directives. The Rebbe unequivocally stated that all the Rabbanim are equal including those that will be elected by the Kehillah down the line ad bias goel tzedek B"B MaMoSh.
The Rebbe stated that the power of these Rabbanim evolves from that they were VOTED in by the Kehillah. Shulchan Aruch states that Rabbonim cannot serve a community unless the MAJORITY of the kehillah voted them in.
Even though somebody seved before in the capacity as a dayan he may not serve as a Rov until he is elected by the majority of the tzibur.
The claim of seniority that some offer in order to give credence to one Rov over another is not valid. When a Rov is ELECTED into his position, he assumes power on equal footing as the Rov already in the position.
The slate has to be wiped clean.All parties have to settle their differences and start over again. Either by setting up a commitee to mediate the issues or by daas or din torah.
If they are successful in their mediation, life can go on and we will have six Rabbonim to serve us. Until then, since one of the Rabanin decreed that the election of these new three Rabbanim was against halacha, against his will, the election has to be nullified or suspended till there will be a meeting of the minds between the Rabanim.
Minor correction
As one who says Yechie and believe I have been spared by it in quite a number of situations, I agree the Israeli guys totally abused it on Yom Kippur and keep on abusing it.
CHASID writes about dressing Tzniusdik, I would venture to say that the cause of the dissilusionment of our youth from our long standing chasidishe lifestyle, is all the machloikes over CHILDISH STUPIDITY on both (or all) sdes of the fence.
I have a "wierd" suggestion to stop this whole ridiculous situation whic is destroying us all. True, it may be VEEEERY difficult, but I feel this would do the trick.LET’S MAKE EVERY POSSIBLE (TO THE POINT OF IMPOSSIBLE)EFFORT NOT TO SAY ONE WORD OF LASHON HARA OR ANYTHING ABOUT THE ENTIRE SITUATION WITH THE RABONIM. If absolutely no one got involved and no one talked about it AT ALL the Rabbonim would be forced to work it out between themselves and we would all have Shalom all yisroel. perhops opening the door for Moshiach to enter and remove us from this dismall bitter golus. We don’t need any more tragedies Chas vesholom to get the message across.
May this be a year of PEACE here at home as well as in Eretz Yisroel
AN IDEA FOR RABBI DRIMMER AND SHCHUNA
Maybe Rabbi Drimmer should write up a respectful letter to both the vaad and the Rabbonim about resolving this "Ad Mosai" and everyone can sign their real names on it. If they see how many people from our community really care, they’d hopefully do something about it.
chaim leime
The Rebbe aprroves of activists L’Shem Shomayim!
It seems that lots of times people are acting L’Shem Shomayim and yet other people dont think that they are… Whether its because of a difference of oppinion, (which is legal!) or because they dont understand them.
When someone is in a public position or a position of (any sort of) power, every act or statement that they make is scruntinized and judged by those who see it.
Now if that person scruntinizing is of a difference of oppinion, it is very possible that they will see his act or statement in a negative way. Thus he will come to critisize that person, for acting or saying as he did. In the meantime, one who agrees with the former persons’ act or statment, will see the later scruntinizer as a Baal Machliokes. Esspecially if the scruntinizer is a public or powerfull figure as well.
So what we are left with is something like, "everybody blaming everybody for everything"
There deffinitly is a problem in our Beis Din, But the question is: what can i do about it?
let us think about it and relise that, even if i am not a powerful\public figure, it still starts with me!
-at my shabbos table,
-in my conversations with my freinds –WHAT MY CHILDREN HEAR (or don’t hear) ME SAY etc.
Let us all become activists and hopefully, through each of our serrious efforts we will be zoche to the comming of Moshiach Now!
LUBAVITCHERS- OPEN YOUR EYES!!!
ISSUES:
1.THOSE WHO ARE MISHICHIST AND THOSE WHO ARE ANTI ARE ALWAYS GOING TO FIGHT- BUT WE WILL NEVER KNOW WHO IS RIGHT UNTIL MOSHIACH COMES AND WE CANT BRING MOSHCIACH WITH PPL FIGHTING!
2. RE:CHASSID: YOU ARE COMPLETELY RIGHT ABOUT DRESSING SNIUSDIK BUT FORGET ABOUT THAT WHEN GIRLS AND GUYS MY AGE(15,16,17,18 AND OLDER) ARE SEEN AROUND CROWN HEIGHTS DOING WHO KNOWS WHAT WIHT EACH OTHER?!?!, I AM MORE WORRIED ABOUT THE FRATERNIZING THAN HOW PEOPLE DRESS!
MBD
Efshar letaken!
chosid
the chilul lubavitch and these days in crown hights is the way ppl dress on kingston ave men with our beard, girls the way thay do v`chadome thats what the vaad hakohol and rabonim should be busy with
enraged
Firslty a yasher koach to Reb Shlomie, it takes guts to say what you feel, when you can predict that hte blind sheet will become wolves, and eat you alive.
with that said, we must recognize that the pattern in CROWN HEIGHTS is rather distubring. trying to connect the dots does anyone feel that there may be a connection with;
in fighting, with the rabonim, to the vaad, to crime spinning out of conrtol, kids running away fraye and thus losing more kids to drugs, and the streets like never before. people getting hurtm and R”L dying. Can we all row up for a moment and learn to read the writting on the wall?
to the bored blind sheep in the shchuna, do something to make the rebbe proud, go on mivtzoim, or go on shlichus…
the rebbe does not need you to fight his Jihad.
Krauss
Sorry, a "Rabbi" who gives a Haskama of a book called "Shlita", that explains why we should now refer to the Rebbe as Shalita – loses his power as Rabbi, and belongs in an instituion.
a concerned individual
over 2 decades ago there was a similar machloikes in kfar chabad, mainly the demand to throw out R’ shloime Meidanchik and elect a new mayor and a new vaad. the Rebbe ordered for a committee of askonim and rabbonim from outside kfar chabad to investigate the situation, run and control the elections. this is what is needed here, let all the present Rabbonim and askonim go for early retirement and bring outside figures to run and control new elections for rabbonim and Vaad.
enough already
Stop writing open letters and stop commenting it causes so much rechilis and loshon hara. May we all have a good peaceful year with moshiach.
Levi
I agree with Motke regarding the situation with Kashrus in our community
which is controlled by private individuals and not by our Kehilla.It is a known fact that timtum halev is
attributed to eating food that is not
kosher. Perhaps all the machloikes in this community,all the tzores r"l and
problems with our youth, lack of tznius etc. can be attributed to issues of kashrus. We all must insist that kashrus be given back to our Kehilla!
Dave
B"H
Earlier I said I wasn’t going to get involved in this because I’m so far removed from Crown Heights and am not totally familiar with all the issues…. But from reading this forum I’m starting to get a pretty good picture.
I’m reminded of a scene from the 1956 movie "The Ten Commandments" where the Jews became impatient because they got tired of waiting for Charlton Heston (Moses) to return from his climb up Mt. Sinai. Edward G. Robinson (Dathan) urges John Carradine (Aaron) and the Jews to build a golden calf and worship it instead. Moses comes down from Mt. Sinai, sees what is going on, and I’m sure you know the rest of the story….
My point is that with all the factions that appear to be in conflict at the 770 Shul, extreme caution should be taken to select the right "mediator(s)" so that a second "golden calf" doesn’t get built…. In other words, don’t get led down the wrong path!
I can only imagine what the Rebbe’s reaction to the current situation in HIS SHUL would be if he were to suddenly walk in the front door and surprise everyone… Do you think a Tzadik is capable of becoming really angry?
I hope you all work this out…. lots of people are watching to see what unfolds….
Yossi
How about this? lets start all over again,new elections for all Rabbonim including Rabbis Osboba & Schwei.
yoshe kalb
Let’s call a spade a spade!As long as there is no absolute elimination of the meshichists, there won’t be any peace within Chabad in general and in CH in particular.This means absolutely NO meshichist melamdim,rabbonim,shochtim etc.I know that this sounds extreme,but extreme situations need extreme solutions.Unfortunately this will cause big (understatement) problems especially within families, where there is a difference of opinions.But I don’t see any other way out.Let’s face it:outside of CH many Lubavitchers stop sending their children to Lubavitch moisdos.It is only a matter of time,when this will happen also in CH.Chabad has at the moment absolutely no standing within the chassidishe world and are considered at best modern orthodox.Wake up before it is too late…
FED UP WITH CH
HEY CLOWN HEIGHTSERS!
ARUM DER YAM IZ TRUKEN!!! YOU ARE ALL LOSERS & ARE DRAGGING THE REBBES NAME IN THE MUD!
Tiger fan!!!
Meshichist? Anti Meshichist? The Rebbeim are all turning over in their graves every time another lubavitcher opens his/her mouth. We have become corrupt, decadent, immoral etc. The only consolation I have is that the gemara in Sotah says that in the time before moshiach’s arrival, Shuls will become immoral places. 770 is now such a place! Moshiach will be coming, but 770 will be the last spot he visits!