A Closer Look into the Ahavas Yisroel Shul
FEATURE ARTICLE: Did you hear? There’s a new shul in town. The elaborate rumor is that it’s operating out of a flower shop on Albany Avenue with young men and women singing Carlebach songs, participating in kiddushim…there’s even an instrumental havdallah. How radical, one might think. A traditional Lubavitch shul is often perceived as a place where men daven and chitchat while the chazan sings solely Lubavitch tunes and women are sectioned off to daven quietly among themselves. Do traditional shuls meet the needs of all Lubavitchers or is this new shul necessary? And what is really going on there?
The shul, Chevra Ahavas Yisrael, opened a short six weeks ago and already has over one hundred committed congregants. Many who have been attending share the perspective that they feel welcome in a shul for the first time.
“I prefer a vibrant and interesting davening,” reveals Shloime Klein, who went through the Yeshiva system and says he was never given the freedom to choose how to daven. Explaining what attracts him to Ahavas Yisrael each week, the 23-year-old says, “The Carlebach-style davening…I can relate to that. Singing together makes davening more meaningful for me.”
It is 24-year-old Shlomit’s fourth year living in Crown Heights and after trying to join multiple shuls in the neighborhood, she says, “I’m so happy I’ve finally found a shul where I’m welcome and feel at home. Davening is now something I look forward to.”
Many who have attended Ahavas Yisrael say that the shul lives up to its name, which means ‘Love of Israel’, by encouraging esprit de corps. Some of the shul’s practices include brief summaries of the upcoming aliyah in the parsha, vibrant singing of many tefillos, the opportunity for all to kiss the Torah scroll as it passes through the shul, the singing of seder niggunim before maariv, and each person wishing his or her neighbor a hearty “Good Shabbos!” at the end of davening. The vibe has been described as “Chabad-house-style,” “Israel-style” and “cozy.” Because so many of the congregants are engrossed in their prayers, there is very little talking.
One year ago, seated around a Shabbos table inside a tiny apartment in the Old City of Jerusalem were about fifty Jews. Each Jew’s background was quite different from the person sitting to his right and left, but they all had one thing in common – the sharing of Torah words and life experience, inspiring one another’s spiritual growth. A community of sorts formed from those Shabbos nights together; a community seeking to grow.
The hosts of the tiny apartment were Rabbi Chezzi and Sima Denebeim. Their first year of marriage spent in Israel was about to come to a close and they would be returning to Crown Heights in Brooklyn, New York. So moved were they by what transpired in their Jerusalem home week after week that they resolved to create an environment with the same openness and comfort in Crown Heights – in the form of a shul.
The goal, say the founders, was to create an environment “where people can really daven,” and to simultaneously build a community with members whose primary ambition is sincere spiritual growth. Planning to focus on davening itself, the mission of the shul became: to create an environment that allows people to be comfortable so they can daven. Ahavas Yisrael aims to achieve this through vibrant song, palpable words of Torah, and interactive learning.
Ahavas Yisrael rented space for Shabbos services in Mimulo Flower Shop and grew quite rapidly since its opening on December 3rd. For the first Shabbos, thirty chairs were rented and thirty siddurim and chumashim were borrowed. As Shabbos arrived, “we hoped for a minyan,” recalls Sima. To their surprise, close to one hundred young men and women who had heard about a new shul turned up. “There were so many people that the mechitza we had set up wasn’t long enough,” Sima exclaims.
Almost immediately, people began voicing interest in becoming involved by setting up, sponsoring a kiddush, buying a bimah, and more. Sima says, “The response was much greater than we had dreamed.” A committee of enthusiastic volunteers was formed and it began working to meet the needs of the growing congregation.
Is Chevra Ahavas Yisrael for everyone? Say the organizers, it is for anyone who either needs something more meaningful and personal in his or her shul experience, or for those who previously had limited or negative exposure to frumkeit.
The board soon realized that such an entrée would not be as easy as they had hoped. Opening a shul that is welcoming to all proved to be too novel a concept to longtime community natives. The vision of an environment conducive to stimulating spiritual growth, while attractive to many, was off-putting to others who felt that the shul’s practices break from tradition.
Some neighborhood residents say they feel that only Lubavitch tunes should be sung in Crown Heights shuls and only men should sing during davening. There is “a certain standard here in Crown Heights,” states Menachem Cohen, longtime resident of the neighborhood. When living in a community, he explains, a person needs to understand that he must respect the standards and traditions of that community. It is important, he says, “because there are people living here who choose to live here for that way of life, specifically.” Pointing out the similarities between coming to a community and coming to a Yeshiva, he says, “If you don’t want to follow the rules, then this may not be the place for you.”
Mendy Silverstein, another longtime resident of Crown Heights, considers, “I don’t know if singing a few Jewish songs, like Carlebach songs, is necessarily lowering the standard” of the community. “People get hung-up on details of things like the shul, but forget that even more importantly than whether or not they sing Carlebach songs, is to make this a friendly community by saying ‘Good Shabbos’ to people.”
Rabbi Denebeim consults with Rabbanim and mashpiim concerning the direction of the shul.
Bais Din Rav Rabbi Yaakov Schwei offered halachic directives concerning the mechitza and women singing. With the exception of the first Shabbos when the mechitza had not been long enough to separate the unforeseen amount of daveners, the mechitza in Ahavas Yisrael is tall enough and long enough to separate the men and women.
Sung in Ahavas Yisrael is a wide variety of niggunim originating from many different Chassidic dynasties such as Lubavitch, Modzitz, Karlin, Breslov, and Ruzhin, as well as popular Jewish tunes, including those composed by Shenker, Carlebach, London Boys Choir, and more, which are sung in most Chabad houses around the world. Between mincha and maariv on Shabbos, there is seder niggunim.
Speaking on condition of anonymity, a female teacher and mashpia in the community says that in halacha “there is black and there is white,” and women singing in shul is prohibited. “I sing in Seven-Seventy,” she says, referring to the women’s section of Lubavitch headquarters, the largest shul in Crown Heights. “We sing, but we are upstairs.”
Multiple Rabbanim, including Rabbi Avraham Osdoba, say they intend to support Ahavas Yisrael after personally investigating present operations to make sure all adhere to halacha. Rabbi Schwei has ruled that the mechitza must be up when men and women are davening, eating, learning, or listening to a speech. With regard to women participating in the davening he says, “Boys should sing and girls should patch with the hand.”
Regarding women’s participation in shul and during davening, Rabbi Denebeim says, “It is so essential for a woman to be involved because she becomes the akeres habayis, the foundation of the Jewish home. The Rebbe constantly stressed the importance of women playing an active role in Jewish communal life and the need for them to be inspired.” The rabbi has implemented what he calls “equal gender participation in shul within the parameters of halacha.”
Ahavas Yisrael has made changes in recent weeks with the goals to best serve its congregants and to adhere to guidelines as instructed by Rabbanim and recommended by mashpiim. Whereas the initial goal was to create an environment where people would feel comfortable to share their spiritual struggles and growth, the founders quickly realized that Crown Heights residents would not be as open to this atmosphere as their guests in Israel had been. “People are not as open or in that kind of spiritual mindset here,” admits one of the organizers. Whereas the kiddushim were meant to be about sharing personal reflections, they are now more formal with the institution of a mechitza.
“I understand why people disagree with it. It’s something innovative, new, and possibly breaks with tradition,” considers Yanky Nemon, 24, Lubavitch law student and Yeshiva graduate. He continues saying, “It is impossible to change this community, so steeped in one way of doing things and shunning anything not expressly promoted by the Rebbe, and Ahavas Yisrael will never win over everyone’s acceptance.” But, he says, “If Ahavas Yisrael continues to inspire, more people will join and participate in supporting this wonderful shul.”
With the changes came even more congregants. Every Shabbos saw new faces and more pledges of financial support. Ahavas Yisrael is now on the fast-track to outgrowing its current location and is looking to relocate.
Rabbi Denebeim explains that while it may start with music, the goal is about “modifying our concept of community, the way we interact with each other. Chevra Ahavas Yisrael is about Torah, mitzvos, ahavas yisrael (loving one’s fellow Jew), connecting to the Ribono Shel Olam, and becoming more conscientious of our already rich heritage.”
Shlomo Klein adds, “I like the unity and camaraderie that the shul brings. It’s the only place I’ve ever felt it.”
Your Mancunian Friend
Yonit-Great article. You write beautifully kn’h.
elki
This line is particularly sad and ludicrous, “… they feel that only Lubavitch tunes should be sung in Crown Heights shuls…is “a certain standard here in Crown Heights,”
What a grim comment. I don’t agree with but can understand those who sincerely worry about the pioneering spirit which bore Ahavas Yisroel and its innovative davening. But, of all possible ogbjections, the ”non-Lubavitchkeit“ of the niggunim is brought as proof of the problem. Sorry, but in addition to being totally tunnel-visioned, whoever spoke about the niggunim is not super intelligent! By the way, I daven in a ”standard“ Lubavitcher shul in Crown Heights on the Yaminm Nora’im and the ba’al tefillah, much to the delight of the mispallelim, uses some Carlebach niggunim and so far nobody stood up in shul to protest (Baruch Hashem).
And the female ‘mashpia” probably has very little hashpa’ah on her charges. I don’t know who she is, but as someone in chinuch ha’banos for thirty years, I cringe at her lack of seeing the forest for the trees. No, there is not just black and white in Yiddishkeit. The shul is following the psak of the rabbanim, and I assume they are more knowledgeable in halachah than she is. And it’s insisting that everything is black and white is what drives many young people away from the beauty they don’t find in davening. So some people picked themselves and proactively decided to help the situation.
Is this not one of the underpinnings of Chabad? What did the Rebbe talk about constantly — if not chinuch, kiruv, etc..And not accepting the psak of Rabbanim seems to be the root of many of CH’s problems.
So, Rabbi Denenbeim and your team, kol ha’kavod and may you go me’chayil el chayil. Ahavas Yisroel, keep singing and have a davening experience that shows you what you couldn’t find before.
Perhaps it sounds as if I’m overreacting, but I have seen too many youth throw out the baby with the bathwater and I am passionate about those who never would have left, can yet come back and have come back because of the foresight, caring and intelligence of Rabbi Denenbeim, et al. Unless you check ID’s for being overage, I just may drop in one Shabbos.
Hatzlach in your Avodas Ha’Kodesh.
Ch mommy
I think this is very nice. I wish I could become a part of it — but i am probably too old.
The Rebbe and Shlomo Carlebach-s Music
It’s worth noting that the song “WE WANT MOSHIACH NOW” that the Rebbe sang with great enthusiasm is based on a Carlebach tune (Mi Kimi). I’m sure that the Rebbe was aware of the origin of this tune. The Rebbe is more complicated than many of us realize. I am aware (from first hand experience) of some of the improprieties of Shlomo Carlebach. In spite of this,the Rebbe set one of the songs that he is most known for to a Carlebach tune. The Rebbe used out the undeniable strenghts of Carlebach’s music.
avrohom
I see quite often people justify certain action based on the fact that they exist in Chabad houses, however it noted that not al things that happen in a Chabad house is correct, also in Halahca we have the concept of L’chatchila and B’dieved, which means in certain extenuating circumstances, we can be lenient due to a lenient opinion in Halacha. That does not however give the right to stretch the leniency to al situations.
In regards to lady’s singing, there is no lenient opinion, it is prohibited for a man hear a woman singing. Period.
Jessica Wahrhaftig
I think it’s wonderful that they have opened this shul, and I will be there this Shabbos!
The big picture
The issue is larger than C.A.Y.
Lately, our Hashkafa of what is acceptable for a Frum community has been blurred, by us using the same yardstick that we use to determine what is kosher for a Chabad house.
The fact that something is done in a Chabad house does not mean it is correct, especially not for a Frum community.
There are many things ( like mixed shiurim) that Rabbonim were “Matir” for Chabad houses, only because of the extreme necessity. The very same “peuloh” that is praised in a Chabad house is considered a huge “Pirtzah” and forbidden amongst Frume yidden.
This problem effects every part of our communal life, as more and more people strive to bring the Chabad house atmosphere to Crown Heights, most of the time with the best intentions. The problem exist by many Chasidishe yidden as well, even if only in a subtle manner.
The way to correct this is by (and I know we hate doing this in Lubavitch) comparing ourselves to other Chasidishe community’s. We need to drop the Chabad house yardstick and start using the yardstick used in all Chasidishe community’s.
May Hashem have Rachmonos on us and save us from our own self destructive behavior
My view
Most people I’ve spoken with who have issues with the Shul are not necessarily aware of the specifics as to where the bima is, how high the mechitza is or exactly which song they sing. Nor do they claim to be experts on Halacha. If that were the case than your clarification that it complies with Halacha would suffice.
I think the main issue (with many other new shuls as well) is that it facilitates the lowering of standards for the whole neighborhood and that’s why it effects each and every one of us. For the last 20 years there were also 100’s of boys, girls, and yengeleit that didn’t feel comfortable in 770 or the other older shuls in the neighborhood. A few left and a few just didn’t go to shul, but the majority felt they had no choice and continued going to 770 or other shuls and that kept their standards high. They had to dress appropriately, sing the appropriate niggunim and otherwise conform with our community norms.
What’s happening now with many of the new shuls is that everyone has a place where they feel comfortable, expressing themselves the way they want rather than what befits our community. True, that it provides a home to some disenfranchised who would otherwise stay home or leave the neighborhood but now my family is at greater risk. As soon as someone doesn’t feel comfortable in 770 he just goes somewhere where he can let his guard down rather than force himself to conform to the higher standard. In other words, when a new shul opens with a lower standard, perhaps 10-15% of it’s members are raising their standards by joining. The other 85% may be lowering their standards.
In addition to all of us that lower their standards by joining it also has a cumulative negative impact when it’s the norm for boys without beards or girls dressed inappropriately to be walking home from shul with you. It helps blur the line as to what’s right and what’s wrong!
devorah
What is this ridiculousness? Who said we needed to hear more about this place?!
If this place is Chabad-House-style, maintain proper respect to the horaah’s of the Lubavitcher Rebbe!!!
AHHHHHHHH!
WHO CARES ABOUT THIS SHUL!!!!!
Damage Control
Every time one of these damage control articles are printed they reinforce all of the troublesome things being said about this Shul.
“Regarding women’s participation in shul and during davening, Rabbi Denebeim says, “It is so essential for a woman to be involved because she becomes the akeres habayis, the foundation of the Jewish home. The Rebbe constantly stressed the importance of women playing an active role in Jewish communal life and the need for them to be inspired.””
What do you mean when you say “being involved”?how should they be more involved than women that attend other shul’s? are they to sing or dance? give speeches? be on the board of directors? and what do you mean by “playing an active role in jewish communal life”? Their active role, although most important, is NOT a public one, it is to be the Akeres HABAYIS. Please dont twist our holy Rebbes words to make them fit with your ideology
to #4 Your facts are wrong
The We want Moshiach song that the Rebbe would start at Farbreingen was “ Am yisroel have no fear” it’s roots are Chasidish.
Although sung by Lubavitchers, the Rebbe never sang the “We want Moshiach” to the tune of Calebach’s Mikimi
Oiss vorrff
Very nice it saves me a trip to w.79th St
hey let the bt ‘s get a life there kids r members of this shull . If they were not so strict with them . Maybe they would be in 770.
#4 is mixing up 2 songs
The song the Rebbe would sing went like this: “Am yisroel have no fear moshiach will be hear this year. we want mosiach now”
The song you are referring to which the Rebbe never sang goes like this: “ani mamin bemuna shleima bevias hamoshiach ani mamin we want moshiach we want mosiach now.
it just occurred to me that this may very well be the reason the Rebbe never sang the ”we want moshiach song” to the tune of mikimi.
itamar rosenblatt
I agree with many of the comments. We do not live in a “Chabad house” community. We live in Crown Heights. The standards of the community as a whole have to come before the desires of the minority. For the sake of our children we need to keep the standards higher than this. Hashem told us gedarim to keep men and women seperate for a reason- it is not our job to go against that. And yes, women singing is a problem- it is 100% against halacha. We need to set the standard as a community, not as individuals that want less!
middle path
Yonit- great journalism. keep it up.
To everyone else- live and let live!
a member of the comunity.
I think once again the Rabbonim of our comunity are being menipulated. Were they toled that girls that went of the yidesshe derech are giving the dvar Torah?Were they toled that the reason those girls can give a dvar Torah is because they were excelent students in BETH RIVKA, however, nothing internilized. I do not think that what the RABBONIM were toled. I do not think that they were toled that this is like a social club. and yes for this kined of comprimize the fought against.
Standards????
There is “a certain standard here in Crown Heights,” states Menachem Cohen…. You make me laugh! I am from out of town and will never let my children visit Crown Heights in good weather because of all the mini skirts etc. Funniest thing I have heard in a while “Crown Heigths has standards” Ha
What I thought when walked in there!
The only people that DO go to the shul are Young boys and Young girls who think there going to find a boy or a girl to hang out with or marry.. people that go there are the same type of crowd. its a “Hangout ” which nobody wants to admit ..Ridiculous!
Former CHer
Okay – let us analyze this as compared to other shuls in very near proximity:
1) On the corner of Eastern Pkwy and Albany there is a shul where the norm is to drink oneself silly – expressly against the Rebbe’s command (yes, this is a gzeirah not a horaah) – and be seen wobbling down Kingston, garbed in talis, in the very late afternoon. Wives and children are not openly invited here.
2) On the corner of Eastern Pkwy and Kingston there is a shul where during the week you have folks dancing to clarinets and waiving large yellow flags. If there is anyone in the world that would consider this Chabad heritage, it is no older than of 15 year vintage. Here, the woman daven on a womens balcony, yet there are small spaces where one can clearly see through, and the rest of the michitzah are windows slightly tinted. As an adolescent, I remember friends who would stare upwards and tell me about their neighbor or a counselor they once met that might be standing two people to the left of the one in the blue dress.
3) Directly upstairs and slightly east of this shul there is another smaller shul where aliyos are given out for balie simcha. At times if someone else enters later, they may end up getting the same aliyah. I am not sure what is the determinant of transferring a previously assigned aliyah to someone else but it happened to me when my firstborn was an infant and I wanted to name her there. Perhaps, the person who ended getting my aliyah was listed a few pages earlier in the tzach list and this was the criteria for giving away a pre-assigned aliyah. If memory serves, the Shulchun Aruch generally does not permit giving someone an aliyah that was already given to someone else.
After considering all of this I must conclude that congregation Ahavas Yisroel certainly will prove to be the downfall of the Crown Heights community <end sarcasm>
rebbe-s shul
I think that is ok to have a chabad house style in CH
If someone doesn’t like it ,just don’t go, there is not any mitzvah to go
But I think that everyone can benefit from this shul
You can have gests non frum, relatives ,etc, that they are going to feel better in this shul, and get closer to Yddishkait
I think that 770 with the tzfatim and the shvil show, etc, is worse and merachek any new comer from Yddishkait, I dunno see more than meshugas over there,unfortunatly
I love to see pll so “chassidish” complaining about this shul,and cannot see the disaster that is going on in 770, the REBBE’S SHUL.
The Rebbe’s has more nachas for Yd going to Ahavas Ysroel shul than with the churban going on in 770
why????
lets get this straight! NO ONE CARES ABOUT THIS SHUL ANYMORE!!! give it a rest, enought articles.. there is no need to keep justifying yourself to everyone! once you keep it up, you just look guilty as if you are doing something wrong.
Please, im sure there are better things to talk about, than a kalbach singing shul, comon!
rivkah
the maple st shul has carlebach prayers for years rabbi blachman who leeads the prayers doss a great job on carlebach maple st shul might be a good start for ahavas yisrael shul
ch resident
carlbach songs are not the issue. This is a social bar, a hang out for people who need a place to hang out. This is a chabad house type of shul. We do not need it in CH. Go open a place out of CH and call it a chabad house and do not dress it in frumkeit. Women singing in shul with men? when was this okd? women giving a dvar torah?
Please leave our neighborhood. This is only a bunch of new comers to Lubavitch. What is lubavitch? It is holy and if there are other problems like tznius, this does not give it a heter.
standards are standards
Nice shul, nice talk, nice singing
Nice wtvr… but NOT a chabad lubavitch shul…..let’s not make pretend!!!
young mother
Ridiculous is the correct word! It’s not the right path to take and whoever thinks it is has alot to learn. Shame on any person that expects positive results from aloowing this.
We should know better
Can someone please explain how it is possible that a person like Carlebach – whom its well know that the Rebbe very much did not approve of his ways, songs etc etc. (perhaps we need to educate the new-comers who have good intentions, but lack the history knowledge of Carlebach and the Rebbe etc over the many years) – is being so publicly displayed and embraced in the Rebbe’s community CH?
What one does in the privacy of their home is one thing but a public community Shul embracing the Carlebach style, is that not a obvious stab to….
The fact that other Lubavitch Shuls have failed to attract this type of crowd is no excuse for a Carlebach style Shul to officially open up in CH.
Yes, we may need to look for new ideas that our Lubavich ways – which the Rebbe worked so hard to instill in us all – become perhaps more attractive and appealing to all. But again, the fact that we have not accomplished this is no excuse to open a Carlebach style Shul in the Rebbes Schchna.
What have we come too? Shouldn’t we know better?
Shomo
Did the Rebbe ever sing “Yidelach Shreyt Ad Mosai?” this, too is from Carlebach (whom I saw in action and whom I refuse to call Rabbi despite his knowledge).
regress vs. progress
this old “high”
is nebach
a new “low.”
– however if it helps some people, then maybe thats what they need.
Jackie
If the Rebbe accepted all Jews why can’t we????????????
Peaceman
The question is not can this style of shul open but why?? Young people are fed-up not interested in booze & politics. One thing is for sure…this is just the beginning!
OY MEH HOYA LONU
Aibishter!!! This is your Oilam Hofuch. Since when did it become OK for Lubavitch to conform to a Bal Teshuvah standard??? Hashem! What are you allowing to happen to our holy shchuna of kan tziva Hashem ess habracha,, oh, and then u have people like Yonit Tanenbaum sugar coat this sickening hangout, with accolades that they spoke to Rabonim. I once watched a debate between R Yitzchak Shochet in England, and some Reform Rabbi, who made an absolute fool of himself, he didnt even need Rabbi Shochet’s help. Here we have people saying that they asked Rabbis. I didnt see any respectable rabbi’s name mentioned,, what type of Rabbis are u going to that condone a hangout, that deviates from what CHABAD really is? I like to think I am mainstream Lubavitch of the 80’s. I like to listen and have respect for the talents of a man who did not do things our way. BUT HE SEPARATED HIMSELF FROM US!!!! And here is a Denenbeim doing I dont know what, but bringing it into our community. PLEASE AIBISHTER! Please Rebbe!! BRING MOSHIACH NOW!! We need to be mekadesh shem shamayim.
to #30
you make the same mistake so many others make or use purposely to try and make it sound that those that are against a certain shul, activities, events or habits are AGAINST THE PEOPLE involved.
We muct love every Jew, yes that’s true.
We must not and should NOT love actions that are improper.
Silence can be a sin.
The comment of ‘live and let live’, would be OK with respecting people’s prefrences of colors, of furniture choices…but NOT when it comes to Yiddishkeit.
Yidden must be RAISED towards the proper standards of Yiddishkeit (even if it takes a long time…)
and NOT
the proper standards of Yiddishkeit LOWERED for Yidden, chas v’sholom.
All the best :-)
maple streat shul
there is nothing wrong with calrerbach we have it for years in the maple st shul so stop the nonsense live let live thats y we dont progress lets focus on positive help one another
answer to # 31
The beginning of compleat destruction R”L
REFORMATION!
To: no. 8 My View – yes, you really manage to express all the negative subtleties of the situation. If we let this style minyan proceed – we are endangering other borderline kids to join – and essentially – give up. This style shul can start a reformation in Lubavitch. This is extremely negative, and like someone above says: “perhaps 10-15% of it’s members are
RAISING their standards by joining. The other 85% may be LOWERING their standards.
This situation is a ”dangerous-to-the-ways-of Chabad chassidus” type of reformation attempt. This is reformation and will insiduously lower the standards as it catches on. Not only will tznius be affected (which we can’t afford) and more subtle things – such as seeing boys with BEARDS attending (the boys without beards we can understand more).
Motti (a bissel) Langsam
Until the exodus of varies chasisidishe and litvishe kehilles in the seventees, Crown Heights was a Jewish melting pot with different hoshkofes, nusachim and minhagim.
Today is no different. You still can find a nusach askenazi, sfard, or mizrachi in this schune and for the past fifteen years the Mosiach cult has branched out all over CH and hyjacked 770. In my opinion Ahavos Yisroel fits beautiful in this divided mosaic.
A member of the Demograohic
Reading all the comments, What a blow to Lubavitch Inc. Its a given that “Chabad Houses” do not necessarily follow Shulchan Aruch; consistently trying to prove Shach right “that the closest religion to Judaism is … etc.
And yet to talk about the late Rebbe’s ”Nachas”?!
Enough Is Enough!!!
# 14 you are spouting foolishness! What about the song “yiadacl shratz ad mosai” which they sang by the Rebbe tens of times? that is a carlebach song!! You have been brainwashed by ignorant mashipim who want to seem holier than thou. they have to appear “chassidish” and therefore trash thing for no reason!! speak to the real chassidim, speak to Reb Binyomin Klien. Ask him about the Rebbe and carlebach and then get back to me!!
Maynbe if people used a bit more shiechel before spewing idiocy, we would keep more of our youth! when they have some idiot who calls themselves a mashpia’s “hergaishim” dumped on them, they leave the system because they dont like dealing with some nuts stomach ache!! They then look at yidishkiet in a tight rigid way instead of seeing the beauty that is in it.
You should probably go to Har Hazaisim to Reb Shloime’s kever and ask for mechila!
shloime freundlich
TO 17- I know the 2 girls who give a dvar Torah Decmber 4 they are not off the yidesshe derech they just made their own yidesshe derech pepole dont need to conform . These 2 girls are very lerned and strive to realte to God one of them spends many hours learing a week .Most girls are frum who daven there and dont go to hang out some learn Chassidus on a deep level.The shul on the corner of Eastern Pkwy and Albany dont drink so much any more and did you know that shul has a group of guys learing Chassidus 630 am before prayers each day and a Tank that goes out on Hankha etc and classes in Talmud and the works of the Rashub etc
# 32
how dare you call this “bal teshuva standards”? do you have no shame?!? there are hundreds of ballei teshuvas who will no doubt put your level of frumkiet to shame!!
Pray tell what the problem with the shul is? they cunsolt with Rabbonim on every turn of the way! Can you claim to do that in every step of your life?!?
sad for Klal Yisroel
How low are we going to go? If we continue to say this is o.k. what is the next generation going to be like? Yes, you can say live your life the way you like,so why drag other yidden down with you? Is that Ahavas Yisroel? Remember, Halacha is halacha and we all have to follow it no matter who you are! That is how we are all going to help bring Moshiach and nachas to the Rebbe.
My View
I live in crown heights but am not lubavitch nor do i ever intend to be (dont get me wrong…i have TONS of lubavitch friends whom i love dearly simply because of who their are as people…they just happen to be lubavitch). I continuously see a problem in crownheights. People that go on shluchis are correct in the way they view other jews…not people who live in crown heights. We all need to respect each other…including our views and actions.
Hashem does NOT care how you daven. Davening is simply talking from the heart to gd. If you want to achieve that by davening from a siddur…so be it. If you want to achieve that by talking to gd on the train or while cooking…do it. If you want to talk to gd by singing from the bottom of your soul…do that as well. Words that are said from the heart, are heard with the heart.
when i heard about this new shul…i simply thought it was a new shul. I never go to shul because people judge me by the way im dressed or how little or how much i daven. I hate it. But after reading this article, i will definately go to this shul next shabbos. I cant wait to see what its like.
Besides, many people have issues even davening in the first place. whether it be due to a hard life or having trouble understanding gd since all it is is emuna…blind faith in him. I personally have many issues with gd. And i also know that whenever i daven, however i daven, gd will always be there to help me and listen to me and protect me.
If lubavitchers are too critical in others how the daven or dress, etc, the lubavs will push them further away from judaism.
My Brocha to the shul Chevra Ahavas Yisroel and it’s congregation to be in use for many years and inspire many and help them communicate with gd on a level with their own.
One last word of advice…dont be so critical of others before you walk into their shoes and lives and see what they are all about!
responce to #30
Because we know better!!!!! Thank you #30! The Rebbe always said we need to do more not less! This does not mean we are not having Ahavas Yisroel in fact it is the opposite we are showing our love by caring for all of Bnei Yisroel!
Miriam Rubinoff
I, personally, have been waiting for twenty five years for this shul to open. After having attended shul only on Yomim Tovim for many years, last Shabbos I davened in this wonderful, warm little shtibl just around the corner from my house. First of all, I want to reassure you (at least from my observations last week), that the mechitzah is opaque and so high that the average NBA player would probably not be able to see over it. As far as Kol Isha goes, the men sing so loudly and spiritedly that I could hear no identifiably female voices even from my place on the women’s side. The women who daven there seem to have the sensitivity to keep their singing unobtrusive. It’s a relief to be able to daven with kavana without being made to feel as if you’re doing something dirty.
As to it being “Chabad House style” – I’m confused. That’s a bad thing how, exactly? Isn’t every Chabad home and shul supposed to be a beis Chabad?
@ #28: I have no idea how old you were at the time, but on Simchas Torah in 770, slips of paper would be circulated with the names of the nigunim approved by the Rebbe to be sung for Hakafos. One of Reb Shlomo’s nigunim that was being sung in Chabad at the time was on it one year. Either Mikimi/Ani Ma’amin or the nigun now known as “Yiddelach Screit Ad Mosai”, I’ve forgotten which, but I had that piece of paper for years. R’Shlomo ztz“l was very touched when I showed it to him. Of course he never would have foreseen a ”Carlebach style“ (if a few nigunim sung during an overwhelmingly Nusach Chabad davening constitute this) shul in Crown Heights. Whenever he came to the neighborhood, he would take great pains not to cause a scene. He had the utmost respect for the Rebbe and would never do anything to ”upstage“ him in his own neighborhood such as announcing a concert or traveling about with an entourage. Word would get out to the Chevra, we’d gather wherever he was going to be, and it was all very low-key. I honestly don’t know what he would think of a shul in Crown Heights being called ”Carlebach style”. I imagine him saying that he learned infinitely more from Chabad than Chabad could ever learn from him.
Chevra Ahavas Yisroel, chazak, don’t give up! Not everybody here needs you – those that don’t, I think will find three or four other shuls in the area they can go to. But some of us do, a great deal.
Community Living
Now all we need is an eiruv!
Shmuel Yitzchokson
Instead of assuming things, do what I and a few of my friends did. We went to CAY for davvening. I was there for Shabbos Mincha, Seder Niggunim, and Marriv/Havdala. I walked away with a clear picture of what the shul is about.
Anyone who has an ounce of honesty within themselves will go there to see what the place is really about. I challenge you to go. I’m sure you will come away with a very different picture of what you heard/read.
Best of luck to Chezzi and CAY.
-Shmuel Yitzchokson
Miriam Rubinoff
Oh, yes! And to those who feel that only tunes composed by the rebbes of Lubavitch are suitable to be sung here, I suppose you’ve never sung Napoleon’s March, or La Marseillaise (Google it)! Other branches of Chassidus have no such hangups. I have heard Reb Shlomo’s nigunim performed at the simchos of the most choshuve families in Satmar and Pupa. They even sing the occasional Chabad nigun there.
To number 17
You should get a better education because you obviously don’t know how to spell.
NK
This is why I hate Crown Heights. It’s why I, who was born and raised Lubavitch, feel like there’s no room for me in the community.
These comments… The lack of ahavas yisrael; being judgemental; putting down other Jews… It’s disgusting. You all coat it with “good intentions,” somehow forgetting the the whole Torah is “V’ahavta l’reiacha kamocha.”
#7: In case you haven’t noticed, we need Chabad houses for our own.
#8: You’re incredibly naive if you think that most people would just go to 770 because they have no other choice. “They” go to alternative shuls, nowhere, or just leave the community. I hope your desire to “preserve the sanctity of the community” is worth losing all those people.
#11: “Their active role, although most important, is NOT a public one, it is to be the Akeres HABAYIS.” Says you. Forget all the women in Tanach like Devorah and Yehudis. They should have just stayed home.
#13: Yes. It’s all the baalei teshuva’s faults for being too strict with their children. (That’s sarcasm, in case you didn’t catch it.)
#32: “Aibishter!!! This is your Oilam Hofuch. Since when did it become OK for Lubavitch to conform to a Bal Teshuvah standard???” Are you KIDDING me?
Ever learn Tanya, Oh Great Chassidish One? “B’Makom she-baalei teshuvah omdim ein tzaddikim gemurim yecholim lafamod bo.”? Sound familiar?
Inspired
The article says that the Shul is looking for ways to have women included in the Davning, one of the ideas being singing etc. because they are the akeres habayis and need to be inspired.
This is a very miss-guided thought.
The same Torah that told us that the Women are the akeres habayis and need to be inspired also told us the right way for them to be inspired, and that is the only way they will be correctly and healthy inspired, not by ways that we come up with on our own which look and feel inspirational.
Just take a look tho the Rebbe – Who is the one who so raised the bar on the special role women play – explains how to inspire women. I don’t recall the idea of haveing women singing in Shul as part of Davaining.
There are so many ways to have the women feel inspired which are in the spirit of the ways of Chassidus.
Chabad Lunvaich Yidishkt is not all about feel good Judaism!
education first
There are so many shuls in Crown Heights. There’s a sefer Torah written in memory of someone every few months. But the Rebbeim and teachers in the mosdos aren’t getting paid. We don’t need more shuls and sifrei Torah written when our mosdos need help.
in response to comment #4 -
The “We want moshiach now” that the rebbe always is heard singing an encourjing, is an old lubavitcher melody, you are probaly refering to the piamenta version of the song, which connected those words with that melody of R Shlomo Carlebach.
azkir chezzy al hatzion asap
azkir al hatzion chezzy beautiful job – may you be zoche to lead all other shuls with the coming of the rebbe zy”a – thank you – keep it up
To #2 - Elki
you write “I daven in a ”standard“ Lubavitcher shul in Crown Heights on the Yaminm Nora’im and the ba’al tefillah, much to the delight of the mispallelim, uses some Carlebach niggunim and so far nobody stood up in shul to protest (Baruch Hashem).”
Unfortunately, what you write about Carlebach tunes being sung in mainstream Shul’s is true. Many people (even teachers in our schools)dont have the proper eidelkeit to realize az es past nisht – it does not however give it a hechsher. Popular opinion is not the yardstick to measure if something is proper for Chasidim. Our esteemed Rabbi Heller walked out in the middle of davening this past Rosh Hashona because the chazen was singing non Chasidishe songs.
I would expect “someone in chinuch ha’banos for thirty years” to appreciate these subtleties and understand the great affect they have on a person. Your lack of sensitivity to what we hold dear explains the dire situation our young women find themselves in.
chaim
i will tell you the reason to this shul!
we need more yiddishiet in schools not lump everyone into a box. not everyone is going on shlichus or rabbonous! with a little education u see lubavitch has to change for the sake of the next generation. we all need and want the rebbe in 770, but its not the case. we will not be dicated by a few tallibian yellow pins fanatics! we need to respect other lubavitcher in our communities who do not fit the mold! not everyone is cut out for black hat and white shirt. live and let live, its not for u don’t go
#14 to #39
My comment was in response to #4 who claimed that “the Rebbe sang it with great enthusiasm” which is not true – the Rebbe never SANG that version of we want moshiach now. The rest of my comment was just using comment #4’s own logic against him (of course we dont know the reason why the Rebbe did or did not sing a particular song)
FYI Shlomo Carlebach is buried on Har Menuchos
ch resident
There is another shul in CH near this one that open up the mechitza completely when their rabbi gives his drosha on yom tov .Who decided that this is allowed?But of course anything goes in the five towns of crown heights.
chani
A woman should be involved?
a woman;s specialness is to do with being a pnimi.
and if you are insulted by that
you dont understand the concept of being a pnimi
it is a high level
and one that should be embraced
it is a gift from Hashem
appreciate it, it’s very very beautiful
#50
NK, you’re going to judge everyone in CH based on 50 comments on CH.info? That is unfair. You only see the bad in CH, you should balance it with the good.
lubavitcher
While the shul may serve the needs of some in our community; it is not a Lubavitch shul. Whoever wants guidance as to how a Lubavitch shul should be…watch the way the Rebbe ran 770. The Rebbe epitomized and lived as a Lubavitcher and told us how we are supposed to be by his actions, examples and his teachings. Certain interpertations of what Lubavitch is, is simply wrong.
No one is saying it is the wrong thing to do. But it doesn’t belong in Crown Heights and is not Lubavitch.
If you call yourself a Lubavitcher that follows the Rebbes teachings, follow the way the Rebbe lived, (or at least aspire to), and demanded his chassidim live. If you are interested in another way of life, it is fine you don’t have to justify it, but it is absolutely wrong to say it is okay as a LUBAVITCHER to act in a way that is not Lubavitch.
It is time for all the rabonim and mashpim to stop fighting and looking for their own kovod and work together so our community could be a community and our standards could be enforced.
RE #48
“Napoleon’s March” and La “Marseillaise” were transformed by the Alter Rebbe and the Rebbe – as explained in the Sichos.
to #4 #39 and #45
You are all revisionist who are trying to mold the Rebbe to conform with your own twisted beliefs.
There is no denying that Carlebach was sent away by the Rebbe. Dont try to make him holy in our eyes. Any of his tunes that were sung in front of the Rebbe were not known by most of the Chasidim to be his tunes (Yidilach shrayt was a big Avrohom Fried hit – most people did not know that it originated from Carlebach. We want moshiach tto mikimi was also not known to the average Chosid to be SC tune.). These tunes slipped through our radar and are an exception to the rule – they were in no way an acceptance of him or his tunes.
let remeber who we r
i feel the issue is on the styl that carlrbach had. it wass all in Neshme not with Head contrl over hart. and thats why he did things he did. not to our standerds. yes pepole want to be inspierd and express them selfs.if thats done in a chabed house. we say to our self its a step to the main gole of our standerds however to have this in C’H is a litle to far however lets not forget who we are.
clariity
clarity re niggunim….we want moshiach now is the tune of campers counselors have no fear etc an old gan yisroel song taken from a lubavitcher niggun……mikimi from carlebach is the origin of another we want moshiach…ani maamin that continues with we want moshiach….this song was definitely sung in front of the Rebbe by kos shel brocha…
Ch resident
If you don’t like it don’t go there! No-one is asking you to…How does this shul affect you if you aren’t even going there.. Let people live their own lives…..
Miriam Rubinoff
You’re saying that the origin of the songs “slipped through the radar” while the Rebbe was physically among us? I give him credit for being more perceptive than that. And the Rebbe never banished R’Shlomo from his presence, from 770 or from Crown Heights. He just said that he could no longer put his haskomo on R’Shlomo’s kiruv efforts the way he felt it necessary to continue them. R’Shlomo continued to visit family in the neighborhood and would on occasion come to 770. As I pointed out before, when he was here he conducted himself very quietly, so many people are under the impression that he never came back to Crown Heights. If that’s not the very definition of tznius, I don’t know what is. Again, I am certain that if the Rebbe had perceived any spiritual imperfection r”l in nigunim sung in his presence, he would have put a stop to it right away – as he surely would put a stop to all the vicious name-calling going on now, if only he were able to.
In Machon Chana these days, do the girls still sing by the Shabbos tisch while a rabbi sits in the same room with his head in a sefer? Or have they gotten to the madreiga yet that there are enough women who are learned and qualified enough to lead all the classes, Shabbos meals and activities there, so men need not expose themselves to the pritzus of hearing women’s voices raised in praise of Hashem?
One more point: If you are going to send your children to college campuses to teach the ABCs of Yiddishkeit, won’t you please see to it that they learn the language of the country they were born in? I hate to think of the Torah being disparaged by college students because those who seek to teach it to them can’t compose a legible sentence in English.
Gourarie the Mashpia
Chezzy, Berel Shemtov must be so proud of you! Detroit can really do a number on you, huh?
Lubavitch
all those who really really really would like to follow the directives of The Lubavitcher Rebbe should not be online. It is not something the Rebbe would approve of for many reasons…………………….this message applies for me as well.
awacs
“In regards to lady’s singing, there is no lenient opinion, it is prohibited for a man hear a woman singing. Period.”
This is untrue. There are two heterim that I know of:
1) Multiple voices distort the hearing and thereby dilute the effects of hearing a woman’s voice;
2) It *may not* be assur to hear a lady sing ‘shiros v’tishbachos’.
TO #49
SORRY for my speling. However i can see whats right & wrong.
it is so sad that you do not.
A Newcomer (but been here a while)
“Please leave our neighborhood. This is only a bunch of new comers to Lubavitch.”
ONLY a bunch of newcomers? Excuse me? You ask, “What is Lubavitch?” It sounds like you need to find out the answer to that yourself. Don’t they tell the story of the Rebbe counting his diamonds in our schools anymore? Have we forgotten what our mission as Lubavitchers really is? The fact that there is a need for this type of shul in our community is only a refection of the snobby, holier-than-thou attitude reflected in comment after comment. Thank G-D the shlucha in my hometown allowed her daughters to play with me when I was little (and not frum). I ended up going to Lubavitcher schools all the way through seminary, and guess what – those girls, despite a few hours of television, and maybe seeing my mother in pants – are also frum, Chassideshe women today.
Like my husband, I know the girls who gave the divrei Torah in the shul. They are frequent Shabbos guests of mine, and I am proud to know them. I can’t imagine how anyone would think they went off the Yiddishe derech. They are in shul on Shabbos, giving divrie Torah (which means they actually learned during the week), not at the movies or in college classes. If they do not follow a Chassidishe path (and you can be frum without being Chassidish), despite having been excellent students at Beis Rivka, well, ask yourself why their chinuch wasn’t internalized? I do not mean to be incendiary here. This is a very serious question that our mechanchim need to examine. I currently teach at a modern Orthodox girls’ high school. The head of school is a very frum Harvard-educated woman – and a Beis Rivka graduate. She has said that Chassidus never spoke to her, and yet, she follows the ideals of Torah U’Mada with all of her heart.
Why is our education system failing these brilliant girls? And why must we denigrate them when they are trying to find their own path in Yiddishkeit? Why can’t we accept their efforts to stay frum, and leave the door open?
Little remembered historical fact
Here is historical fact about 770 that one would have to be quite old to remember.
In the 1950’s, on Simchas Torah in 770, the women would come downstairs to the back of 770 and watch the hakofos from there.
No mechitzah !
Gssp !
Just like other shuls in the world, where they open the mechitzas or remove them. In 770 they actually came into the mens shul.
Liberals 1 Modernity ! Feh !
Actually, during one of those years, an old timer , with a holy spirit of zeal, began berating the women and started chasing them out, the Rebbe gave that individual a sharp rebuke saying ‘Ehr vet nisht firin a seder doh’ meaning, ‘He should not try to run things here’.
Just something to bear in mind.
reuven
jew disliking and minimalizing jew. it’s no wonder the scvartza berate the chasid’s. it’s no wonder thr rebbe would rather pass on than live with this sick mentality.
ch is a disgrace to the jewish nation. 10 kids per house. food stamps. sec 1a. free school. and complain about EVERYTHING..
f’n disgrace
to #49
Some people simply have difficulties with spelling and reading.
Some of the greatest personalities in the world had issues with spelling and/or reading…
Did you know that?
Perhaps it is you who should get an education….
alter yid
this is a beautiful shul.it so nice to see young people be involved together. there is a late vort from the frediker rebbe about a group of vilde young chasisidim who used to gather to learn and drink a certain homemade alcoholic brew. when a older zealot chasid complined to the rebbe that its doesnt go together and it should banned and the youngsters should be thrown out for starting a new trend. the rebbe made with his hand and said abei gelehlernt…so to all the nay sayers abei gelerent…look at the positive…i bet to all you nay sayers if it werent this issue you would find another issue to fret about…lubavitch is about pnimus, its about real fuhn di hartz, if young men and woman are joining together to daven mit a geshmak so be it, to learn, to be more ruchanius so be it….so what its with a twist,,,abei gedavent abei gehlerhnt…hatzlach chevra ahvas yisroel….yelchu mechaiul el chuel…
# 67
koodos to you! someone saying it the way it is. And # 63, I stand by my comment (#39). If you can say it “slipped through the radar” then you are not even a lubavitcher! how can you say something so stupid about the Rebbe?
Refua Shliemah!
this is to #72
sorry! but girls do not give divrei Torah in a shul to men.This girls are not newcomers. I happend to know some of the names & yes they totally went of the yideshe derech & are dressed & behave not as a bas yisroel should.Yes maybe the chinuch should have been beter but you can not exuse it. There has only been one Torah.
a real lubavicher!
it is about time that the rabbonim of ch work together and not fight for there kovod! the community needs ther help. we are so dark in golus that we don’t even realize it and we think that everything is “okay” eitherway a suggestion may be that a letter send to the rabbonim and beis din of ch writting that they must amke standard and halochos of WHAT IS ACCEPTED IN THE COMMUNITY AND WHAT IS NOT” yes,kicking people out of the community is not the lubavich shita. still mussar needs to be give. because no one is opening there mouth the community is the way it ius1 just imagine if there was achdus between the schools and tznuise the rebbe would forsure be here by now!!!!!!! easier said than done. in admit but if someone would take it upon his shoulders to do so ch would change for the better! a tip may be that store owners should put up signs that if a man or women are not dressed the proper way they would have to leave the store! not joking!!!
Wondering
Who is the shul’s Rabbi? I understand that Chezy Denenbeim is the “organizer” but is he also the spiritual leader? I am just curious to know.
Sanctimonious Crown Heightsers
To #9, #10, #22 and others….stop being so arrogant. When did YOU get appointed everyone’s representative? I’m thrilled to hear about this shul.
To #17: It sounds to me that your comment is more of a judgment call on Bais Rivka if anything. How very many girls walk out of Bais Rivka with a painful emptiness. Perhaps Rais Rivkah, among many other institutions should do some sole searching themselves.
To #24: ONLY newcomers to Lubavitch? I don’t think so. Are you oblivious to the many gezhe children that have been turned off by the negativity espoused throughout the pure Crown Heights community?
I sent several frum, chassidishe kids to CH to learn and work. They can trace their origins back to hidden yeshivos in Russia. Each has been turned off by the negative, judgmental, vitriolic attitude of so many Crown Heightsers. Each has become modern in your community of such very high standards. None feel comfortable in a shul there although they have found frum shuls in other communities that are welcoming. My daughter has begun to discuss the likelihood that she would like to avoid marrying a Lubavitcher.
Oh you sanctimonious Crown Heightsers! While you were focused on your ‘standards’ you lost the people! Maybe it’s not YOUR kids, so you can toss some trite explanation in my direction. But look around you! Don’t you see that it is your holier than thou attitude, completely contrary to what the Rebbe modeled for us, that is pushing so very many kids away?! Beware, it may not be your kids, but it may be theirs. And you’ll be praying that a shul like this will warm them again to their origins.
I pray that after I send this article to my kids, they will visit this shul and find the spark that has hidden itself from them.
Yuddle Shvatski
Genug Geploidert.
Anyone in theis cyberworld that can help find (and/or fund) this radical, non-conformist, buzz-worthy (hmmm, sounds like habad in 1960) shul a new home
1. preferably not in heart of Kan Tzivo Hashem Es HaBroch (because there’s too much static disturbing people’s inner music)
2. perhaps on the “other side of Eastern Parkway” sorta like Basil – land,
3. gotta be able to hold hundreds of folks. seems like there’s alot of CH’ers who are naughty and want to do their own thang.
please contact Rabbi Yichazek-Kel.
Everyone else, keep up your good work wherever you are.
to #75
Name one such “Great Personality” who could neither write nor read, furthermore, on what basis do you conclude that #49 needs an education? Is reading or writing a liability???
too much coldness in this community
Wake up- Crown Heights needs Chabad houses in a big way. For the people who are critical- don’t you care? Don’t you feel any concern or responsibilities for people who don’t find their place in mainstream Chabad? Sometimes this place starts to feel like Sodom, lo alenu. I can’t believe it.
If you can create a shul that speaks to these people- go ahead. Meanwhile , be thankful that someone else has created a place for people to connect.
It’s the end of the gallus- please have rachmonous on people who find in this shul some chayos and connection.
so sad
Well, I’m glad I’ve spent time reading more arguing and hatred among members of the community. It brings great heartache that opinions are bantered with a personal stinging edge rather than being with love and for the sake of Heaven. I feel so sad that I live without a sense of community because there is senseless hate here. Whether the shul is acceptable or forbidden, welcoming or dangerous, the animosity between people here rips my neshama.
have not been in a CH shul in 12 years
I have not davened in a CH shul in 12 years but I am now interested in returning for the first time.
Avrohom
It seems there is a very misunderstanding over here, about what is Lubavitch and what is not; if someone wants to be considered and Safardi, he should be following the P’sokim of the Maran Bies Yosef, and to be considered an Ashkenazi, he would be expected to follow the rulings of the Rema, you can not have a situation of a Safardi following the Rema or visa-verse.
In Lubavitch we certain standards in Halcha and conduct that is expected of a Lubavitcher, (as a side, it is the Rebbe [all of the Rebbeim to be exact] ho dictates what is the proper conduct for a Lubaitcher). You cannot have it any other way.
I once heard, that a Shliach wrote in to the Rebbe to inform him about a certain Peula he was planning, and mentioned that he will be getting a Magician to entertain children. The Rebbe wrote back that he should consult with a Moreh Hora’ah about hiring a Magician (there are some opinions that forbid hiring a Magician).
A shull that does not follown Lubavitch Halochos in regards to Tznius or Mechitza cannot be possibly considered a Lubavitch Shull.
FromTheOfficeOfTheVice-President
As a sixth! generation Lubavither I love this shul and find myself more connected to the Aibesther.
Once a jungeleit in jeans, modern shirt and a visually cropped beard expressed his desire to be a chossid of the Rebbe, although he could not bring himself to wear the uniform (lavush). The Rebbe looked at him and proclaimed “If you practice Ahavos Yisroel you are already my chossid.”
SHLOIME FREUNDLICH
to 78
The Lubavitcher Rebbe had undertaken the most daring spiritual initiative ever undertaken in history of humanity Would it be possible to search out every Jew in love as Jews had once been searched out and hunted down in hate and was this the only possible tikkun the only possible mending of a post Holocaust world
Jonathan Henry Sacks Baron Sacks Chief Rabbi of the United Hebrew Congregations of the Commonwealth
I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.
Dr King OBM
learn this years Basy Lagany mamuar 5711 oius 6 the Rebbe brings a story that the Rebbe Maharash went to a fancy hotel in Paris to save one Jew show some love who are you to decide who is a bas yisroel
Outcast from Chabad and CH
So, there should be a Chabad House in every corner of the world besides Crown Heights?!
Many people who have grown up in Crown Heights or other Chabad communities across the globe flock to Crown Heights to live. Whatever the reason may be, that is the fact.
Would you rather these people take the train to Manhattan and party on Shabbos or would you rather that they go to shul? Isn’t Chabad different then all other Chasidishe Sects because we embrace everybody no matter their extent of Jewish practice? Isn’t Chabad all about loving, caring, and bringing Jews together? If you are bringing evidence from other Chasidishe Sects, why is there no Eiruv in Crown Heights? Almost every Jewish community in America has an Eiruv!
Just because the main stream Chabad doesn’t use an Eiruv? What about the thousands of people that visit Crown Heights each year? For example the college Shabbaton that occurs each year, why make these innocent Jewish souls transgress by carrying just because you won’t use it?
Why can’t we embrace each Jew and each person for who he is? Do you expect more Chabad children to grow up and continue with their beliefs, or are you trying to chase more people away?
Such a double standard, outside the community we are all loving but inside our 4 walls we are busy fighting and trying to tell each other how to live, and what a good Jew is!
Is this how Chabad attracts people to become more religious and join Chabad?
I know some parents may be “crying” over their children’s lost souls, but embrace life and the changes that occur, this is a good thing for your children!
Or, as mentioned before, we can send all these “outcasts” to party it up on Shabbos in a bar, eating non-kosher food and “hanging out” with non-jewish people….
KEEP IT REAL!!!!
to #89
Do not try to exuse yourself!!!This is not a behavier of a bas yisroel & you know it.If someone is sick they should go to a doctor not a rabbi&do not bring the REBBE MAHARASH in your sick exuses
BT Bochur on New York
I moved here two years ago from CA, and after being told to move/you’re in my seat in MORE than on CH shul, (I realize that yes, you are supposed to sit in the same seat when you daven), I have spent the past several months walking twice every Shabbos to a Chabad shul in another neighborhood that is actually excited to have newcomers…plus people there actually daven instead of shmoozing. I got tired of being “in the way” in CH shuls. Tonight, IYH, I will visit Ahavos Yisroel, and I have a very good feeling that this will be my new shul. I absolutely cannot wait!!
To #74
Please listen to yourself. You start out complaining about “[J]ew disliking and minimalizing [J]ew,” but then you go on to do exactly that, and even using a (barely concealed) swear word in doing so.
And if you’ve got a problem with “10 kids per house” – why, then, you yourself are fighting against the Rebbe, who always promoted the idea of people having children and trusting in Hashem that one’s parnassah will be sufficient.
One more thing: “free school”? What community are you talking about? What Jewish school do you know of in Crown Heights that doesn’t charge tuition?
a 13 year old girl-s point of view
This is horrible! thats why i dont go to shul! sad, no? on shobbos i daven @ gome.
770,out of the question! its a socializing shul and when i go there all i hear is talk talk talk!
then theres the shuls that every one gets drunk
and then theres…THIS! a hangout, were woman sing!
As a girl myself meny times i am mad that WE have to hide our selfs and yes, it bothers me. life is not perfent and we dont get to choose! but making a SHUL, a holy place, like that is out of the question!
please, think before you do this!
SHLOIME FREUNDLICH
TO 91-I am not the bas yisroel I am a guy who knows the bas yisroel
Have you ever heard of the 5th code of Jewish law (Common Sense) there is no one size fits all.One of the most respected Chassidic Jews came Dec 24 to the Shuls Friday night meal that had men and women and spent 4 hours talking with the people etc
CHer
Wow great job Yonit! Good to see that you’re getting your work out there!
SHLOIME FREUNDLICH
AND WE ARE THE CRAZY ONES????????????THERE IS A FIRE BURRING AND THE FIREMEN ARE FIGHTING, SO THE YOUNG GUYS LIKE MOSHE P AND CHEZZI D NEED TO PUT OUT THE FIRE.
– a late Erev Shabbos announcement Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba said that he will not be attending the Hachtorah of R. Yosef Braun Sunday evening in 770, and he declared that others shouldn’t attend as well.
Progress!
There are many valid reasons to question the appropriateness of the location of this fledgling shul. However issues certainly exist in our community and one would have to be delirious to deny that. So i invite all those that take time out of their day to bash this noble attempt at progress, to instead use their creativity in devising a rational solution. This was a well written article, keep up the good work Yonit.
good job
wow! Yonit – great article!!!!
it seems like a really nice shul.
btw – these coments are so dumb, rly dumb, for real
pickels
MOST UNBELIEVABLE SHUL. BEST THING THAT HAS HAPPENED TO CH!!
FROM ACTUALLY ATTENDING THE SHUL I CAN SAY THAT THE DAVENING IS BEAUTIFUL AND THE VIBE OF THE SHUL IS GREAT. THE IKAR IS TO FEEL AND WANT TO DAVEN, THIS IS WHAT IS BEING ACCOMPLISHED HERE, IF THE AHAVAS YISROEL SHUL IS NOT YOUR SPEED THEN DON’T ATTEND, IF IT IS THEN ITS GREAT!!!
GOOD JOB TO ALL WHO ARE INVOLVED WITH THE SHUL!!!!!!
Let it be
Let it be – and let it not be an official Lubavitch shul. CH is open – it is not Kiryas Joel and anyone can move in. Carlebach is dead – yes, he was someone who could not control his tayvos but who knows where half of our music comes from anyway? If people get something out of his music (I don’t) so be it. Is music composed by a Satmar oisvorf who has a nursing home supply firm (we all know how honest a business that is – ask Phil Parker) any better? At least Carlebach was just unable to control his tayves and barely knew right from wrong.
If this shul keeps one Jew from leaving the derech altogether it is a great kiddush Hashem.
to 101
#101… what is an OFFICIAL lubavitch shul? and the rebbe is also dead… i was there. isaw ivisit the remains in queens.
while u r judjing R’ Carlebach, look in the mirror and tell everyone what u see…
be well
YZ
I haven’t been to this Shul, but in my view it was very predictable, almost inevitable. Such alternative Shuls and schools will just continue to grow, whether some people like it or not. The reason is simple, the established system in CH completely ignores the thrive of the younger generations to find Judaism that’s meaningful to *them*.
For the older chasidische generation, the Rebbe is still the center of life in Crown Heights and many assume that this can last forever. Well, it can’t, at least not for the new generation.
All the negative comments fail to provide a real alternative that young people, couples and families can identify with. Even if there was a clear prohibition in Torah to sing Carlebach songs, it wouldn’t help. People seek meaning and they identify with this shul, so quoting prohibitions and reasoning won’t convince anyone.
Grateful out of towner
I’m so glad I don’t live in CH. Life is hard enough without narrow minded people judging each other. I’m sure The Rebbe is watching all of this and saying “Didn’t you people learn anything from me????”
Chaim Menachem
B”H Love will triumph, Moshiach is near!
Helen
I thought that Labavitch is about getting people closer to yeddiskit, and I think if this shul was not here, alot of people would not go to shul, because of this shul I am going to go more often to shul on shabbas than I used to , because I like the singing in the shul.
melissa solomon
I think this news is wonderful! I lived in C. Heights for a year and really did not like going to shul. I only went on Friday nights and on Shobbos day, I would walk to the Botanical Gardens and then to someone’s house.
I really liked Davening when they would have the pagishas. The davening was understandable without all the Yiddish pronunciations.
I used to go to the Berav Shul in Tsfat when I was in Machon Alte for a year. It was a Carlebach shul and it was so lively with singing and dancing. Tons of Chassidishe people of all ages and backgrounds were there all the time.
Sometimes I think people get way too hung up on details and forget the bigger picture. People are congregating to celebrate Shabbat. That book, Hilchos Bas Yisroel clearly elucidates differences of opinions on Kol Isha. There is not only one opinion.
I always thought that Crown Heights would be more interesting if there were other types of Jews and different synagogue affiliations all over the neighborhood. I grew close to Chabad over the years, but I still like to sample different shuls. I like Young Israel, local regular shuls, Sephardic ones. I get tired of everything being Lubovitch all the time. Diversity is good. Boston is like that. The Tolner Rebbe Shul, Bostoner, Y. Israel, Jewish Renewal, Cons. Reform, Sephardic, Steebles here and there, Chabad Houses all over.
Crown Heights has its spiritual points, but it lacks the realization that they do not own the city. Anyone can open a shul. This is America and we should not be subjected to religious tyranny. Open dialogue between different types of people leads to understanding and perhaps openings for future educational opportunities on both sides.
I am happy that there is a new shul that is vibrant and fun to attend.
That is always a good reason to think of moving back. Yeshar Koach!
Malka