The question that is on most people’s minds is “does a Rov of a Kehilla need Semicha, or not?” and it’s been a question that has been lingering and festering among many in the neighborhood. Rather putting this issue to bed, the Zabla Beis Din has remained mum on the topic.
So our researchers have gathered a collection of a Sicha, letter and a story upon which you can make your own informed decision.
Does A Rov of a Kehilla Need Semicha?
The question that is on most people’s minds is “does a Rov of a Kehilla need Semicha, or not?” and it’s been a question that has been lingering and festering among many in the neighborhood. Rather putting this issue to bed, the Zabla Beis Din has remained mum on the topic.
So our researchers have gathered a collection of a Sicha, letter and a story upon which you can make your own informed decision.
One without Semicha is an Am Haaretz
In a Sicha from Shabbos Parashas Maatos Maaseh 5746 in which the Rebbe says some very harsh things about Askonim who feel they own the community, and that such a thing has never been heard of in the history of the Jewish nation.
The Rebbe goes into the discussion of “who are Rabbonim?” and answers, “those who have Semicha for Rabonus, and not just on paper, they were ordained in directing on matters of Halacha – “Yoreh Yoreh”, “Yodin Yodin” – by Rabonim who were ordained before them, from man to man etc. until Moshe Rabainu.
The Rebbe concludes with very harsh words calling someone who does not have Shimus an “Am Haaretz” despite being well versed in Shas and Poskim.
Electing the First Beis Din
In 5746 following the conclusion of the elections for the very first Beis Din of Crown Heights, the head of the election committee Rabbi Eliezer Tzvi Zev Zirkind sent a letter to the Rebbe informing him of the election results.
In the letter they announce that they have “merited to complete their Shlichus by seeing the three Semichos for Rabonus from the three Rabbis of our community, as well as securing the seven signatures on the contracts and Kesav Rabonus, and arranging their salary…”
The conclusion of the letter Rabbi Zirkind details the candidates, along with what their qualification are and who gave it to them.
No Semicha – No Kashrus, No Chuppas, No Shaalos
In a story printed in the Teshura from the Markowitz-Lokshin wedding called Nobility and Piety By Getzy Markowitz (originally published here on CrownHeights.info) he tells the amazing story of Rabbi Yehoshua Lein the Rabbi of a small Russian town called Ostrovna, near Vitebsk, where a fire destroyed their home and with it his Semicha Certificate.
Among Lubavitcher Chassidim, the year 1906 has become a symbol of sentimentalism. It was the year when the Rebbe Rashab delivered some of the most sublime dissertations of Chassidism. Until this very day, clever students explore the world of Chassidic thought eager to amass enough knowledge and training to study the masterly treatise known simply as “Samach Vov.”
In the same year that the Rebbe Rashab delivered Samach Vov, he dispatched Zeide Yehoshua to the Lithuanian Chassidic fortress of Dokshitz to establish a branch of Tomchei Temimim for a select group of students.
Among Zeide Yehoshua’s sixteen gifted pupils was Rabbi Mordechai Perlow, the author of Chabad’s cherished “Kuntres Hasipurim,” who would become an illustrious rabbi in Soviet Georgia, Italy, and Australia. In his book, Rabbi Perlow quotes a number of stories in the name of his teacher, and describes Zeide Yehoshua as a man who could articulate all of Talmud, and the major works of Jewish jurisprudence and their commentaries, from memory.
Eventually the Rebbe Rashab motivated Zeide Yehoshua to take up the position of Rabbi of Ostrovna, a town near Vitebsk. Then, in 1911, four generations after Peretz Chein served as Rabbi of Beshenkovitz, his great-grandson became the city’s rabbinic authority. The inhabitants of Beshenkovitz would apply to Yehoshua the biblical verse “and the fourth generation shall return here.”
When a fire erupted in the Lein home, Zeide Yehoshua’s certificate of Rabbinical ordination was destroyed along with other possessions. As a result, the pious man ceased serving as a Rabbi. He no longer officiated at weddings, or oversaw kosher certification. Accounts of what had happened reached the razor sharp Rabbi Yoseph Rosen, the Rogochover Gaon who immediately issued a new superlative certificate.
Yadin Yadin?
Did Rabbis Marlow and Osdobo have Yadin Yadin?
On the paper you present it says only that they have Yoreh Yoreh.
Pathetic
It’s over! Move on, get a life.
mendel
who is bashing who?
Ad Mosai
This is unbelievable. Mammosh klore Nevius to our times down to including the Gvir whose giving money & the askan mendy hendel their rebbe shita. The Rebbe says these monies are from Klipas Nogah & are not allowed to be used for Kedusha. By now it is obvious that Mr. Braun doesn’t have any Semicha (he would’ve shown it & put the issue to rest) forget about Shimush or experience in Dinei Torah. But he still chants the mantra & says 3 hail m’s.
PUT UP OR SHUT UP!
This piece is mamosh scary. How in the world could we have been so thoughtless to “elect” a person without having been shown his Semicha certificate? I understand that he refuses to “show” his Semicha certificate. Frankly, I strongly doubt that he has ever received Semicha or there would not be this controversy. If he has a valid Semicha then show it. If he does not have it, then he has no right assuming the position of a Rov in the Beis Din of Lubavitch. I have had it with this disgusting situation. We have been bullied and cajoled enough already. This has gone too far. We should all be united in demanding to see Rabbi Braun’s Semicha!
Obama
Sounds like the “birthers” and our president – lehavdil…
M fendel
Rabbi Braun stay home!
R Shwei
Since R. Schwei nominated Braun, surely if anyone has any complaints, they should turn to Schwei for answers. If he cannot give any answers, it shows that R. Osdoba is clearly the only one looking after our community…
Time for Elections again
The issue now is NOT whether he has semicha.
The issue is: Election nominations were held-up to facilitate his candidacy. WHAT were his supporters thinking? Fraud for Beis-Din Alliance?
This is the candidate who will bring peace to the Rabbonus in Crown Heights?
We have politicians who have now created a new wave and generation of disillusioned.
Oych mir a Rov
Why is he still being called RABBI Braun?
Yossi Braun will do just fine.
FACT
The fact is the Rabbi Braun was elected by over 1000 members of our community, you can’t just dismiss 1000 people of our community just like that, you must consider their opinion for something, I’m not saying that a Smicha doesn’t count, but I am saying that it is a very difficult situation, you can’t just call out the Rabonim for taking their time in making a decision.
#1
When a person serves as a Rav alongside elder Rabbonim for many years, that is considered the best Smicha.
The reason one needs a certificate of Smicha, is to inform those who don’t know if he’s qualified to serve as Rav, that he is qualified, because an elder Rav says so in the Smicha document, but if someone served in a Bais Din of this Shchuna for many years alongside the previous Rabbonim, then that is the greatest Smicha. This includesnot just Smicha, but it is actual Shimush.
Harav Marlow Z“L, was a Rav in CH, for a good 15 years before he was elected, and Rav Dvorkin used him in his Bais Din for Dinei Torah all these years. And yblcht”a Harav Osdoba was a Rav in Denmark for 10 years, then he was Rav in CH for 16 years alongside Rav Dvorkin, and he also served in his Bais Din on Dinei Torah.
When a Rav shows that he has a record as a Rav, and he can show his Psakim, that serves as a Smicha as well.
Besides, the Rebbe gave these instructions after they were elected.
Isaac Asimov
For more on this issue visit:
http://asimovrants.blogspot…
Rabbi Mattis Kantor, Eastern Parkway, NY
Yosef Yeshaya Broin has done himself and Lubavitch serious damage. In that order, in order to reflect what appear to be his priorities. “Career Advancement.”
When he was nominated, in exception to my usual non-involvement in the thrust of politics (except for humorous quips at outlandish politics) I publicly requested he not leave Sydney, a community I have a special connection to. There are young people there who stand at the edge because of disillusion with Kehilla matters there. To have a “Rov” of Chabad suddenly turn into a “Career Advancing Professional” would strain the limits of that disillusion. (Some tried to teach me history, saying that there are precedents all over for Rabbonim to move from one place to another. My response was, that there is no precedent in Jewish History for one Manhig to send out thousands of Rabbonim (insisting that smicha be attained) whilst establishing the concept of “ayno zaz mimekomo” unless exceptionally compelling local conditions dictated it.)
Now it becomes irrelevant whether he stays or goes. He is the candidate of the Election Fraud Party. A depressing wave of disillusionment (myself included.) Not only in him, but in his promoters, including all those innocent election scrutineers (with one particular person in mind) who did not require a copy of the smicha.
As said by me then, the Rebbe blessed him with the words “Kedusha aina zaza mimkoma” (and he didn’t say to the famous zayda “Lo yomushu mippi zaracha” which is the standard phrase used in such a brocha.)
The number of people who would not have voted for him had they foreseen this happening, are sufficient to declare the election resultss invalid. Certainly the words of the Rebbe were, that because it was daas harabim, a person cannot then claim this is not his Rov. Even if he brings smicha now, the election is invalid. (My father used to say of such Rabbonim “He found his smicha under a mattress while cleaning the attic (boydem).” He himself declined taking smicha, although half a dozen Kollel yugeleit were needed to take over his shiurim when he passed away.)
Rabbi Mattis Kantor, Eastern Parkway, NY
To #11.
Over 1,000 people voted for a “Virtual Rov”. Now they need to have the opportunity to vote for the facts as they stand (or fall.)
BTW: You appear to be quite comfortable in dismissing 800+ who voted otherwise. So we have 200 odd votes deciding? Those 200 votes are very likely to be seriously questioning who it was they were voting for.
(It is entirely plausible that there are many more than 200 votes who would change now. This is a vote for the Mesader Kidushin of your grand-children Or great-grandchildren.)
deeply saddened by the stupidity here
His status, or lack of it, should render this election null & void.
However, this is Chabad. Charlie Rangel learned all about corruption from us. This fraud will stand & we will pay the price for decades to come. But as I’m nearer 60 than 50, I won’t be around to see the end of this debacle. I feel so sorry for my poor children & grandchildren, though.
Of course, they can always do what I do: ask shailos outside the neighborhood & ignore any psak from within. Just like when we are upset about some stupid comment we say “Look from whom it comes.” Well, I think that applies here.
Mr. Braun will not say anything that I have to listen to, any more than I have to listen to any ordinary citizen. He isn’t a Rav. He doesn’t have Smicha.
I have another question: Why & how did this fraud get past Rabbi Rosenberg? And how much has he been paid for all the work he’s done (which clearly was incompetent.)
Both Rabbi Rosenberg & Mr. Braun should be fired, if they don’t have the moral decency to quit.
Rabbis Osdoba & Bogomilsky must be laughing hysterically. Me? I’m crying for what we have become.
bring the house down
COLOR WAR!!!!!
enough
I don’t believe R’ osdoba or R’ schwei had to show their smichas to anyone.
rabbi rosenberg is the only one who needs to be satisfied that rabbi braun met the requirements. afterall we are paying tens of thousands of dollars for his beis din.
i dont blame rabbi braun for not revealing who else he received smicha from so that they too can be harrassed like rabbi zinner.
1000+ members of the kehilla have spoken. we want the 3rd rov that we elected. we want a functional beis din. we dont want any more ‘sides’ and no more politically motivated askonim mixing in to rabonus!
Kantor Clown
Mattis Kantor: Stop fantasizing! You will not be coronated rov of Crown Heights. Your jealousy is repulsive!
L Milecki
I live in Sydney and have known Rabbi Braun for many years. Rabbi Braun is a Gaon who is boki in shulchan aruch and poskim. He knows and practices halacha to the T.
Anyone who wants to suggest otherwise are participating in the most disgraceful sinas chinam, their purpose being just to destroy any possible future peace in the CH community.
antimesira
TO # 11 fact:
A 1000 or 10,000 whats the difference.
So a 1000 people were fooled. Those who control Braun and controlled the disgraceful campaign for Braun showed a false Simicha, they also went ahead and attack a Most respected Rov (who BTW has Simicha, Shimush, Dayunis and was a Rov for over 40 years).
1000 people were cheated!!
Truth is, may just 800. I believe there are those who are corrupted and have their own agendas.
Another thing. If a 1000 or 10000,0000 people vote to change something in the Torah/Halacha or they vote to change something the Rebbe clearly says should be one way, do we still have to respect their votes?
Mekach Taus
It doesn’t matter how much he knows and if someone gives him Smicha now. If he didn’t have Smicha at the time of the election, then the election was a Mekach Taus, a fraud!
I would say that 25% of the people who voted for R’ Braun would not have voted for him had they known he didn’t have Smicha. Even if only 5% of people would have voted differently, Braun would not have been elected.
Read and You Will Know
I ignored the commentary and ignored the comments and just read what the Lubavitcer Rebbe ZT”L said in public many years ago about this issue.
I would suggest that before writing a comment you read what the Boss, the master and teacher has to say.
Those who can’t read Loshon Hakodesh (the holy language, should not be commenting at all.
to # 11
rabbi chazin was also elected by a majority of our community in 5746(he won the election),
and the Rebbe sent him back to Israel because he was a Rav in Israel.
that means that one can be disqualified even after elected.
VoteNo
Let’s take a vote if we have to keep Shabbos, wear Tiffilin, eat kosher, say Chitas and Rambam etc..etc.. if we get enough votes against these things or enough votes for other (wrong doings), then we will be justified.
No?
Why not, seems to be the logic some here are following?
Yankel
There were four conditions to running in the elections,
1- a candidate must by forty years – he is not forty.
2- The candidacy must be announced by 26th of Menachem Av –
his was announced the 13th of Elul.
this was to give the community time to research the
candidate.
3- The candidate must have Smicha – He does not!!
4- The canditate muts be indorsed by one of the C.H.
Rabbinim.
The only condition of the four that he kept was #4.
The violation of the first two conditions were brought to
the attention of the Bais Din before the elections, the
B.D. decided to waive them.
Condition #3 that a candidate must have Semicha,and as it
turns out he doesn`t then the whole election is null and
void, and a fraud was commited on the whole community.
Cont. from #25
And has had many years of shimush
Me for Rov
I have Semicha.
I’m not 40, im not even 30, so what, right?
Simush, I’ll have to make that one up.
I can read Loshan Hakodesh.
I can and am willing to learn how to use Blackberry.
Am I in?
Can I get your vote?
I’ll open a facebook page and if I get over 1000 ‘likes’, then I’m your new Rov.
New Elections Pls
To #11
If I arrange over a 1000 signatures from Crown Heights residents saying we want new and proper elections will you honor that request?
Shmuli
I know some people who say that the Rebbe is alive in a physical body. They can show it to you in a Sicha.
So when the rebbe says that Rabbi Braun needs semicha ‘ish mipi ish’ from Moshe Rabbenu, does that mean that he can’t become a Rov?
I believe you also forgot to give adequate attention to the other criteria mentioned in the Sicha. Yep, that’s right! Shimush. I would be interested to know if Rabbi Ozdoba and Schwei had Shimush before becoming Rabbonim. Maybe they’re not really Rabbonim either. I do believe that Rabbi Braun did receive Shimush however.
I think it’s ironic that most of the people who are commenting most probably received Smicha from Rabbi Yuroslavsky (I didn’t). My point is that you probably didn’t really know your smicha when you got tested.
If you read the above Sicha you will see that the Rebbe said that receiving Smicha is not enough to become a Rov. You will also see that the Rebbe’s point is that even one who has received Smicha needs to be one who knows how to learn and be moreh horo’oh. Receiving Smicha is not enough. This is why it is important to receive Shimush. A rov must be able to know how to teach and give over.
As the translation says:
“Who are Rabbonim?” and answers, “those who have Semicha for Rabonus, and not just on paper, they were ordained in directing on matters of Halacha – “Yoreh Yoreh”, “Yodin Yodin” – by Rabonim who were ordained before them, from man to man etc. until Moshe Rabainu.”
The point is that the Rov needs to know the halochos, as well as teach and give them over! Of this Rabbi Braun is highly qualified.
If you still claim that the Rebbe wrote that he needs smicha ish mipi ish from Moshe Rabbenue (which might be an inyan Ruchni), it will take him 2 seconds to take care of that issue. All he needs to do is get tested. I know him personally and he is an ilui. It won’t take him long. Unfortunately people prefer to criticize than seen the positive.
CH has a great rabbi! Use him!
chaim
Yes smicha – no smicha
in ingarin zaught men, vus tute men nicht far pasnoso.
In Hungery we say, what don`t you do for parnasah.
the joke was on us
face it poeple
this big gaon rosenberg made a mistake but instead of being a men and admit to the mistake .
whats this big GAON do nothing.
shame on this dayan gaon
To mr Mileki of number 20
i think you are mixed up from shimush to tashmish
Oh Where is Rav Chaviv
We should have voted for Rav Chaviv he comes with no problems and just enough English.
Uncle Mendel
For two bucks he can get Smicha from Arlans!!!
Honesty
To me, the issue is not so much whether or not Rabbi (?) Braun has semicha or shimush, but it is the DISHONESTY of how he was so called elected.
He knowingly misled the public about his “endorsements,” all of which (besides for one) were not actually endorsements at all! And now we find out that he misled the Beis Din and the public regarding this basic condition for the election! Such a person is not worthy of a respectful greeting in the street, let alone the authoritative position of Rov.
And to think that one of the key points in the Braun campaign was to question the integrity of the other candidate… go figure!
Sicha abuse
It’s amazing how people can take a sicha and “use and abuse” it to suit their needs. This sicha was referring to people who dared to criticize the elected rabbonim. How can people use the same sicha and dare to criticize the newly elected Rov?!
The Rebbe is telling the community how they are NOT rabbonim and shouldn’t decide who is suitable to be a Rov. In the Rebbe’s words: “their interference is not only against Torah; it’s totally against basic mentchlichkeit”.
The Rebbe says here that “gedolei Yisroel are the ones to decide who is suitable and Stam balei batim and community people have no right to determine this”- and yet everyone here feels they may post public comments about the suitability of the elected Rov…. Hypocrisy at its best.
Re Rabbi Braun – his suitability was determined by Rabbi Schwei as well as the eminent Rabbonim on the zabla beis din (rabbonim who are trusted by both rabbis Ozdoba and Schwei and supported by Rabbi gluckowski and a host of Chabad rabbonim who pushed this beis din to overseee the din torah). How dare stam balei batim to undermine a Rov who was determined to be suitable by gedolei Yisroel? In the rebbe’s words here – “this is totally against Torah and totally against basic mentchlichkeit”
In summation: whoever eishes to abide by this sicha MUST cease to interfere regarding the rabbonim and keep their comments to themselves. The rebbe wants us to adhere to the beis dins ruling.
Federal Kollel Unger-mann
I will settle this once and for all. If Hendel and company can send me 10000 boxtops from Unger’s cornflakes I will issue R’ Braun a valid smicha certificate, yukel yukel, from Yeshivas Ungern.
Please send it to my post office box in Crooklyn because my mates here in Leavenworth Federal Kollel will steal the boxtops and trade them for cigarettes.
He deserves being exposed
Get him out this is what happens when you mix your nose where you don’t belong you get outted and now I wouldn’t be surprised if he looses his old job as well being he doesn’t have smicha.
The Board of elections should have vetted him before the elections and he should have never been on the ballet here in the first place.
ch member who voted
This is not to be believed. We are a community of older, younger, smarter, stupider, frum, not so frum, frum from birth, baalei teshuva, How did we allow this to happen? This reminds me of how did it happen in Germany? One Hendel Mendel had the power to influence so many people. How did we vote (not me) for an unknown? A young guy without experience, without smicha, We are going to elect him for life? Did anyone check him out? Does anyone know him? I understand he came to Australia to start a ‘break away shul“ This shul started with 65 families and is now down to 12 due to his great machlokes capabilities. How did this blitz campaign happen.? Osdoba does not know him. Schwei said he is a ”aideler yungerman” after speaking to him for 5 minutes. And we are electing him for life? Why is he demanding so much $$$$ (that is including the house and tuition)? Also this to be also held in escrow for the next 7 years.
Have we as a community lost our mind & all sense of what is right and wrong and what is mature and normal? Yes, Hendel Mendel does not want Rabbi Bogomilsky because he is afraid that he will take 770 away from him. Please we all LOST OUR MINDS and were brainwashed. Let us right this wrong and tell Mr. Braun (as he is not a Rabbi without smicha) to stay in Australia. My only condolence is to the Australian anash who hoped to get rid of him. It is unheard to elect someone who is not known to anyone. How did this happen? Think of the damage he will do to our kids and grandchildren. Where is our achreius to them. Everyone is responsible for this joke. After all the negative about him can he hope to make sholom or to be respected or to accomplish anything or to be believed on anything he says?
M. Fendel
PUT IN RABBI BOGOMILSKY BY DEFAULT.
NO MORE ELECTION. NO MORE FIGHTS.
APPOINT RABBI BOGOMILSKY ROV AND LET’S GET STARTED.
Nachman Sanowicz
The only comment I take seriously is Rabbi Matis Cantor.
Not that I necesarily agree with him but its an opinion that is worth reading. He is not hiding his name and thus not a pashkvill.
Shimush
I only see here a bunch of sore loosers and others affraid that a real talmid chochom will be here and show how much they can learn.
Some wrote that rabbi Osdabo was Rov for 16 years here working with Rabbi ZS Dworkin etc. As far as I remember, 1. In 5736 he was still a magid shiur in Morristown and he became Rov here in 5746 (16! years?) 2. Please lets not bring up Rabbi Dworkin here the issue brings memories and a letter from Rabbi Dvorkin that shows how history repeats and mido keneged mido …..
In Copenhagen you can really get shimush from whom? Go back and find out what type of kehile was there then, I don’t think those members had real halocho questions. And how and why did he leave Denmark?
To all loosers please stay cool digestion time is over if you constipated take some prune juice.
Rosenberg Afraid of what ????
lets see. even if all the stupid people who wants the rabbi to be not Semichad .
lets take a vote now that everyone knows the thruth.
and if you machchissim are right and the community will vote for a mr broin to be a rabbi .
please add as a referendum that since the mojority of Crwon heights residents are celebrating the sabath on sunday all maschchissim should cancel the Shabbos and celebrate sundy
@ 43. Shimush.
“In Copenhagen you can really get shimush from whom? Go back and find out what type of kehile was there then, I don’t think those members had real halocho questions. And how and why did he leave Denmark?”
The community in Copenhagen in those days was made up of very frum Yekke’s, i actually met one of them a few years back and he told me that they were amazed at Rabbi Osdaba’s knowledge at the time, he was a very active young Rov, the younger guys in the (frum) community used to hang in his house an he would Farbreng for them etc…Crown Heights seems to have changed him!
At the end of the day, Broun may know a lot, but he does not have the basic qualification. Let him get Smicha now and re-run the election.
What i don’t understand is if R’ Baun is a Chasidisher youngerman, how did he not fulfill the Rebbe’s instruction to Bocherim to get Smicha?!
To # 45
YOU WRITE: “At the end of the day, Broun may know a lot, but he does not have the basic qualification. Let him get Smicha now and re-run the election.”
You so sure he doesn’t have smicha?
As we all saw he does have smicha from Rabbi Gavriel Tziner which signes the smiches together with Rabbi Braun for the Sydney smicha program Rabbi Braun runs.
All rumors are just words in the air and loshon horah. The fact is that there is a signed document by Rabbi Tziner and many signed smichos given by Rabbi Tziner and Rabbi Braun together.
I think it’s more then enough and enough is enough!!!
Tzinner Semicha is a Fake
46. You have been drinking the cool-aid for way to long. The Semicha letter from HoRav Tzinner produced by Broin was bogus, and Rabbi Tzinner himself denied ever giving him Semicha.
There are two things, 1) the document has no date, why is that? and 2) the words of the piece of paper are simply a recommendation regarding Broins lamdanus, and has nothing to do with rabonus.
IMHO, Broin is responsible for all this Lashon Hara and Machloikes that this issue has caused, since he sits in Sydney and remains quiet and does not dispel the rumors.
Shame on you Broin for reaching all the way around the globe to stir up more Machloikes!
To 47
I drink kol aid but looks that you had to much prune juice.
Did you see any document from Rabbi Tziner to that effect? You can talk and write fun haint biz morgen but the only two documents we have from Rabbi Tziner in this issue are 1. The smiche given to Rabbi Braun (do you read and understand losh hakodes? When the smiche became public you guys claimed that Bogomilsky got a recomendation and this is just a smiche, now you saying it is not a smiche it’s just a recomendation make up youe mind please!) and 2. Smiches that he signes with Rabbi Braun. The rest is stam gehakt.
Reb Fretzel
I don’t understand what is going on.
People say I have a pretzel brain, but I cannot twist it around these arguments that yes smicha/no smicha – he was elected.
Some people braid their challah’s with 4 braids, some with 6 and some 8. My pretzel brain is only a 4 cylinder twist. Now I learn that there is an 8? In pretzel form?
Anyhow, everything else aside, Crown Heights could use a “community organizer”. So bring him out. Di gelt fargest men, ober di schoyreh blaibt.
I think I smell an agenda
Why is everyone so concerned with verifying rabbinic credentials all of a sudden? This issue was not raised when Rabbis Segal, Raitport and Zirkind were elected in the previous election. More so, when Rabbi Swei was elected to the Beis Din nobody demanded to see his Tudot Smecha.
Neither the author of this article nor any respondent has offered a source in the Shulchan Aruch or its commentaries, or Shalos u’Tshuvos, to establish Smecha as prerequisite to function as the Rov of community. Where is the basis in Toras Emes?
The author appears to have misunderstood the Rebbe’s Sicha which states plainly and at length that Smecha and Shimush are required for those *nominating* the Rov of a community. The Rebbe opposes individuals without such credentials to serve on the nominating committee. The Sicha does not address Smecha and Shimush as criteria for the *candidacy* of the Rov himself. Is there perhaps another Sicha the author meant to quote?
Rabbi Zirkind’s du”ch clearly establishes his thoroughness in presenting information about his activities to the Rebbe. It does not, however, establish that the Rebbe requested this information. It certainly does not establish the Rebbe making Smecha as a prerequisite of candidacy for the Rov of community. Did Rabbi Marlow mentioned in that du”ch have Smecha before those elections?
Even someone who is not fit to serve as a dayan may still serve as a dayan if a community consents. The elections demonstrated that consent so it appears this discussion is largely academic.
Tzinner Semicha is a Fake
Mr. Cool-aid, a undated document, containing a Loshon that has never been seen before from Rabbi Tzinner raises eyebrows to say the least.
Now keeping that in mind, let us take an objective look at what a normal Semicha letter from Rabbi Tzinner looks like:
http://tinyurl.com/2b292jg
And when we compare the two side by side I wonder! But Broin has ‘many’ other Semichos according to his claims, but has now fallen back on his own father saying that he gave him Semicha.
WHAT A JOKE.
A lie is a lie is a lie, no matter how you dress it up.
apikores mishechist
mr agenda (comment 50) your seemingly logical comment is an agenda of your own twisting the rebbes words.
your going to fall back on elections that were nullified to make a case to save broin? two wrong make a right? besides the fact that they have all be serving as dayonim and rabonim before those elections, but your right, lets not confuse ourselves with the facts.
even more so that you go and throw shulchan aruch in the rebbes face, since when was a sicha not enough to dictate horaah? look at all our mischechit suicide bombers that and running to blow themselvs up for all the sichos of num bais, no?
you comment, es shtinkt vi nichtikens herring, you sound like a bitter apikores misnaged whos alter rebbe was thrown in jail and he ran out of wars to fight.
Osdoba Has No Semicha
Kol Haposel Bemumo Posel.
How were we so stupid to have elected Osdoba when Osdoba has no Semicha!
Next time when Osdoba calls you to a Din Torah answer that Osdoba must first send you a copy of his Semicha.
Better yet – Hindsight is 20/20
All Osdoba’s Sidur Kidushin and all His Piskey Dinim until now are all Botel Umevultal unless Osdoba can show that he had Semicha and Shimush before the election.
Better Yet! Everyone who loses a Din Torah by Osdoba need not follow his Psak din since Osdoba will certainly be too arrogant to be willing to show his assumed Semicha, if he even has it.
#50
You’re 100% right, the biggest disaster was not to ask Rabbi Schwei for his Smicha and to establish his credentials as far as Shimush is concerned. Its almost 10 years already and we have only Machlokes and no Bais Din.
And Rabbis Reitport, Zirkind & Segal, have been removed from Bais Din because there was no criteria as to who can be a candidate for the Bais Din, so this time they made a criteria with conditions to be a candidate, but they broke each one just to have Braun run.
So whats the point of rules? I know there is a saying that rules are meant to be broken, but I wouldn’t think that this means that all rules must be broken. And if that works to fire three Rabbanim after over three years in the Bais Din, then someone who didn’t make it in yet, can easily be told not to come.
Guys, its Brown all over.
Yiddel hot mir a Fiddle?
I am an easy going liberal minded person.
I vote for Braun.
So what if he doesn’t have smicha. Where does it say you need smicha? Inthe list of requirements for nomination? That’s an outsider job of Rosenberg.
As far as I am concerned, as long as he is not a woman, (transgender is OK, it doesn’t say no to that anywhere) then he fits the position. He will even be a good teacher in the field of community political.
#53
That’s why the Rebbe first accepted Rav Osdoba as a Rav, and later added that it’s till Moshiach comes (oh, but Hendle Mendel says that Moshiach already came…. Sorry I forgot), only later did the Rebbe announce rules for candidates. Go figure.
Anyway, one thing is for sure, you can’t read Hebrew, because it says in Rabbi Zirkinds letter that he did see a Smicha for Rav Osdoba.
I think that Ephy Buchwald offers speed Hebrew courses around this time of the year. Try it.
Yossi stay home
Hey Yossi Stay is Austrlia.
Chaim H.
Firstly,
Kuddos to R’ matis Kantor for not hiding his name.
I will try to follow in his footsteps and declare my name:
Chaim Hillel.
One thing I will not follow in his footsteps is that, Dont be a sore looser. R’ Kantor you were not a candidate and will not be Rov, even though you would love to be.
Number 37 is 100% correct, if only e/o would read the actual sicha, The Rebbe is talking about thos criticizing the Rabbonim. Rabbi Broin is the duly elected Rov, like it or not.
Number 38 you sound like Moshe R. You seem to know the Fed System very well.
All along Rabbi Rosenberg is good enough to fix machloikes, but when its not going your way-oy, he is the worst in the world, what a load of hypocrisy.
datum
Since when smiche needs a date what is it a shtar milve or a kesuvo? look good and see if all semichos have dates. Since when the loshoin hasmicho is meakev? Ein ladayon elo ma sheinov roois, we see only a smicho from Rabbi Tziner the rest is plain kinoh, sinoh etc.
TZORE S
And Rabbis Reitport, Zirkind & Segal, have been removed from Bais Din because there was no criteria as to who can be a candidate for the Bais Din, so this time they made a criteria with conditions to be a candidate, but they broke each one just to have Braun run.
PLEASE GO CHECK THE PSAK DIN WHY THE WERE POSUL LEMAFREA
Entire Badaz qualified after Elections!
It’s known that not all 3 of the entire elected Treo had Yodin Yodin and Shimush when they were elected.
What used to be called “the Badatz of CH”, got Shimush and even Yodin Yodin, only AFTER the election.
As per the Rebbe’s sicho, since the Treo did not have Shimush they were not qualified to be Rabbonim in CH as per the Rebbe’s sicha, which is quoted this article.
The Treo were elected first and became qualified later.
Yoreh Yoreh
“It’s known that not all 3 of the entire elected Treo had Yodin Yodin and Shimush when they were elected.”
But R’Broun doesn’t even have Yoreh Yoreh ,never mind Yodin Yodin, he doesn’t even get a look in!
Not that brave..
To all the posters.
A new point.
Why this whole discussion?
The premise is that with achdus in the Bais Din the issues concerning the Vadd Hakohol will be solved, the netzigim will start to operate, and crown heights will be restored to the glory of ??????
Crown Heights is no longer a small little shtetl trying to stop white flight and the closing of shtiblach, that you had a small group lead by Dovid Fisher Zalman G.with the help of The dayan and BB to save CH.
Today crown heights is booming, whites are moving in shuls are opening, schools are overflowing etc. New moisdos chesed are opening all over..
And you have a small group that think that they “run” CH and Lubavitch.
They want a BD”TZ to use as a power base to achieve their goals.
But Anash have voted with their feet…
Normal BB anash no longer daven in 770.
most of anash do not attend or care for any vadd leman ???
Crown heights today is a neighborhood of many different kehilos Anash.
Trying to put the 25 year old back into his bar mitzvah clothing will not work!
So to Rabbi Kantor I say: Let it go.. it will keep the trouble makers busy for the next few years.. and as someone that knows Rabbi B I can tell you they have bought themselves a maftir. He will drive them nuts.
A shiduch made in heaven!
Stay in Sydney
Judging by the comments. Rabbi Braun stay in Sydney you don’t need the headache of this Crown Heights community. They don’t deserve you.
semicha is good as the one who signs it
Rabbi M. Mouse has semicha from Yeshivas Disney – why not hire him! He has worldwide exposure and acceptance – he has been around since the 30’s, the “velt” holds from him, he’s an icon of stability and maturity….OK – He has no beard and he dresses funny – NU, so does Zaki, and maybe he’ll grow one {the beard}…I mean really! What’s wrong with him?
was there
Rabbi Zirkind verified personally that all 3 Rabbonim in 5746 has smicha. end of case
Crown Hights
We all know that Mendel Hendle is trying to take over Crown Heights, he is telling rabbi Schwei what to do and what to say!
You can have a Bais Din with MENDEL HENDEL running the show!!! someone needs to deal with this big problem!
ch resident
let’s just get Rabbi Bogomilsky here and we can maybe have shalom and maybe achdus and maybe we will not be the laughing stock of the world
Toishev hashchuna
He sounds like Obama that claims he’s born in America but refuses to produce a birth certificate. Reb Yossi Braun, what are you hiding? I’m not giving a penny towards your salary unless you show us your semicha. I don’t care about showing it to Rabbi Rosenberg, he’s not paying your salary, we are! A bit of transparency is in order.
mendel
Your comments that Rabbi braun hase no semicha are stupid. every bochur in lubavitch gets semicha, yet we are to believe that Rabbi braun who is more a lamdan than most, was unable to get semicha.
moshe from brooklyn
The biggest joke is that a Rabbi Rosenberg was hired and paid and he made the biggest chozek of the honored anash of the rebbes shchunah to allow this fellow from Sydney to be a candidate when he didnt produce credentials, shame on you Rabbi Rosenberg for making a joke of all anash worldwide i as a lubavitcher am offended and feel disgusted and abused by your actions!
Did you need to come from Monsey to make a joke of us?! you owe a public apology to all anash for causing such a chilul hashem and shem and kovod lubavitch.
Get it into your head the rebbes shechuna is not a ball park!
Arva deRabbonon
He has a smicha “letter” that is worthy of the beis shimush – therefore it is clear he has both smicha and shimush!
Tell It Like It Is
“Rabbi” Braun’s candidacy was engineered by the same group of people that engineered Rabbi Schewei’s. It was never about providing the sh’chuna with a functional bais din. It was ALL about a group of jealous alteren who felt ignored. They acquired a group of younger henchman and began their war to rule the community over 8 years ago. Wakekup and smell the coffee all of you! Your actions are killing people.
Rabbi Mattis Kantor, Eastern Parkway, NY
There are many “red herring” arguments being thrown around, and/or used as shields behind which to hide the facts.
One such herring (actually it is probably the red Matjes herring) is the wild swinging paintbrush that my motivations are really based on not having been… whatever.
It is time for public disclosure:
The following are my qualifications:
Yoreh Yoreh – yes;
Shimush hilchos Nashim – R.Moshe Bick A“H (5738-40)
Gittin – Bais Din L’Avreichim (R.Leibis Landesman).
Yadin Yadin – NONE
Shimush in Yadin Yadin – NONE
5th Chelek Shulchan Aruch – Boki (and this comes from the most humble person in Brooklyn!)
I cannot (forget about will not etc) be a Rov elected in CHT’s.
So please, put away that squeaky violin.
My TRUE motivations:
An obsession with the beauty and absolute breadth of chassiduss Chabad, and a revulsion of the narrow theology it has become.
A sickness in the deep pits of the stomach, at watching the percentage of ”shadow“ beards grow from week to week. It is of course not the beards, but the prikas oyl that lies behind it. (Tzniyus is another symptom of course.) Knowing (sensing) that it stems from way above, with ”chosheveh“ chassidim davenen (even krias -shma and sometimes shmona esrei) without the tallis on the head. And their being surprised that it is an issue. The Tzemach Tzedek said – according to R.Hendel Kugel his chosid – that it shows that to this person the whole davennen is a yoch (yoke).
THE LAST PARAGRAPH IS THE NAIL TO FINISH ANY CANDIDATE’S POPULARITY IN kAHN TZIVOH….”