2 Nights of Simchas Beis Hashuaiva Marred by Fanatics and Violence

CROWN HEIGHTS, Brooklyn [CHI] — Seeing Reb Yisrolik Shemtov pleading with police for help and protection of the stage of Simchas Beis Hashuaiva was a sad sight. Shemtov was told by the police that they cannot get involved in “inter-community politics”. They said “we do what we can to accommodate the event and that’s all.”

On Thursday night, when Avraham Fried performed on stage, the speakers were tampered with and wires were cut mid-performance, and later the power was cut to the entire sound system, abruptly ending Fried’s performance.

When the person who cut the speaker wires was asked why he did it, he answered in Hebrew “because he is not singing Yechi.”

Earlier that evening a number of (Tzvati) Bochurim climbed over the barriers and nailed a Yechi banner to the front of the stage and stood guard over the sign.

Reb Yisroel Shemtov started Simchas Beis Hashuaiva in 1981 after the Rebbe spoke in a Sicha about the significance of dancing in the streets, and that year the dancing took place on Montgomery Street in front of the Katzman home, and the following year the event moved over to the corner on Kingston.

Eight years ago Shemtov was shoved off the stage by Betzalel Kupchik and was seriously hurt, breaking his arm and subjected to a long and agonizing healing process. Determined not to stop the Simcha of Simchas Beis Hashuaiva he continued the tradition in front of 770.

After being elected to Vaad HaKohol Moshe Rubashkin worked tirelessly on an agreement which ended Shemtov’s reluctance to return to Kingston Avenue and have just one Simchas Beis Hashuaiva. The agreement was a compromise, Shemtov runs the show from when it begins until 2:00am, and from then to 6:00am ran by Rubashkin. For the last eight year that was the arrangement.

Motzoai Shabbos, police were kind enough to place two police officers behind the stage to keep the area clear, but their instructions were clear, not to get involved with removing signs or flags. The Yechi sign from Thursday night was reaffixed to the front of the stage before the music began, only in a more obnoxious way, covering a portion of the performers, and Shemtov was unable to remove the sign on his own, out of fear for his saftey.

Many Crown Heights residents expressed outrage over this blatant attempt by a small group of (imported) fanatics that try and enforce their own ideas and beliefs on the community. One resident said that “with total disregard for decency they make a complete chilul Hashem and are mevazeh shem Lubavitch.”

95 Comments

  • 1. Most Horrified... wrote:

    I am most horrified and upset because they are an embarrasement to all of us Mishichistim, whether we wear flags or not.

  • 2. Not my problem wrote:

    Why are you all so shocked? YOU let these thugs come here, YOU house them, bail them out of jail, feed them, let them trash our Schechuna & act like animals & then you’re surprised?

    Grow up! If you let terrorists into your midst, this is what you get. The biggest shanda is that our holy community council lets them physically & emotionally attack Yisroel Shemtov who has spent his life working for the Klal & for Simchas Bais Hashoeva.

    I take no responsibility here. I let those nuts at Bais Moshiach have it every time they begged me to host total strangers who turn up in CH expecting us to open up our homes & pockets to scroungers. I leave the responsibility to all you misguided people who let these thugs destroy us every year. You did it, you clean up the mess. If you’d all say no, they wouldn’t show up for free vacations.

    When you go on vacation, don’t you pay? Don’t you save for a great Israeli or French trip? I do. I don’t show up in Kfar Chabad & expect total strngers to let me in their homes for a month for free & kick out their kids from their rooms so they can have the “mitzvah” of Hachnosas Orchim on their children’s Cheshbonos. DON’T YOU GET IT YET???

  • 3. MADD wrote:

    leaches is all they are, they latched onto and sucked the blood out of 770 and disrupted and took over simchas bais, they have no basis for their new faith of misssianism so they they have to impose themselves and pretend that they are chabad they dress the same they look the same but believe me they are not the same it’s time to keep these bloodsucking fanatics in israel and do away with kivutza and unsupervised children that think they can come to crown heights to a let loose wreack havoc free for all.

  • 4. C.M. wrote:

    woh, woh, such loshon hara going on here. go ship those few people back. to me it didn’t seem that that’s why avraham fried left.we heard him perfectly fine. and just btw, without the flags it’s pretty boring. plus, the flags only say Moshiach- isn’t that what we’re trying to bring? so a few crazies acted nuts, does that ruin your simchas beis hashoeva? stop looking at the side things and focus on the 99% more good that was going on. i enjoyed each night’s dancing. was so freilach this year. (and if some pple want a yechi sign up let them. why are so many pple going crazy themselves from them.)
    Same in 770 and in your lives, stop worrying what other pple do- look at the good and beauty in these things!!
    WE WANT MOSHIACH NOW!

  • 5. Mad CH resident wrote:

    Then when a group of crown heights residents do try and take a stand (for all of us) “the crown heights SHOMRIM” another group (shmira) which has no interest in protecting the COMMUNITY go out of their way to make viscous MESIRA!

    It’s time we stand with those that stand with us!

    It’s my and your neighborhood, I was born and raised here and i an raising my own family now (here) I want my neighborhood back!

  • 6. mother in crownheights wrote:

    Unbelievable. When will this stop? and why is a whole community standing by doing nothing?

  • 7. 749 wrote:

    749
    Mesira
    749
    Mesira
    749
    Mesira
    749
    Mesira

    The whole Idea behind the mesira of 749 was to do exactly this, to intimated anybody who cares to stand silence.

    It’s to shut the mouth of all the “Joe’s the plumbers”.

  • 8. :) wrote:

    Thanx for sharing! if were lucky, enough ppl will read this and another heated wave of anti Lubavitch sentiment will begin to proliferate. thank g-d for ppl like you and sites like these, otherwise, how would ppl ever know who and when to Hate! keep up the fantastic work. May you go from strength to strength. -c&f

  • 9. relax and take it easy wrote:

    The best way to deal with these people is to ignore them completely.
    they are desperate for attention and cant wait for a confrontation.
    if they are just ignored they will get bored.

  • 10. HELP! wrote:

    because of people like C.M. (the comment above) this problem will only get worse.

    “there is no such thing as a moderate mishichist”.

    As you see they find the problem with you and not with the loonies who (FACT FACT FACT) have ruined our community, ruined everything we stand for.

    Let’s not just go blame a few Israeli boys, there are plenty of people from our community who find a lot of good use for them.

  • 11. Moshiach wrote:

    At least the word Moshiach will no disapear from the streets of crown Heights

  • 12. concerned wrote:

    all these years Shomrim would watch to make sure there was no problem, I know they are just volunteers (and we have no right to demand anything from them), but why didn’t they get involved this year?

  • 13. OTU Bochour wrote:

    these bochorim save every last penny they have because they are dying to be in the rebbe’s shichuna. you can show a little respect for some of the sincere commitment they have to what they believe in. I’m not saying that they are all 100% right expecaily when it comes to violence, but you balibatim that fuss and complain about any chayas that exists clearly forgot where your living and maby should move away for a couple of years untill you can appreatiate living with the rebbe.

  • 14. Tolerance?! wrote:

    A fellow yid? Some of you keep using that line loosely. I am a twelth grade student in bais rivkah high school; I have just taken together with my entire grade a gemer on chumash shemos. Im sure you have all heard of it. Let me refer you to the golden calf. i believe a group of yidden stood up and attacked(killed) chur, their fellow yid. Were they not punished? Were they not killed? did moshe who was the rebbe of all rebbes not punish them himself? Okay before ppl start posting of how I am not saying they should be killed! Look deeper into what i am saying please. Not always does this fellow yidden line apply, sometimes ppl are wrong, sometimes actions must be taken and its okay its fine! This has been going on for many years and this has caused much damage to the whole community in so many different ways. That’s all i really needa say i just wanted to piont that out. You can’t find a right when it comes to them. And something really foolish some of you have been saying is there are “tzfatis” who are aidele bochurim. Just because they live in tzfat doesnt make them tzfatis and i think you know that.

  • 15. HOPE AND CHANGE IS COMING wrote:

    Like Dovid Hamelech wrote in Tihilim:
    (10) “For forty years I quarreled with that generation; and I said, ”They are a people of erring hearts, they do not know my ways.” (11) So I vowed in my anger that they would not enter my resting place.
    IT IS NOT FOR NOTHING THAT THE REBBE DOES NOT WANT THEM BY THE OHEL, THANK G-D THEY DON’T GO THERE, COULD YOU IMAGINE THE SCENE THERE.
    NOW G-D WILLING THEY WILL BE THROWN OUT OF 770 AND MAYBE JUST MAYBE MY KIDS CAN GROW UP WITH A LITTLE SOMETHING.

  • 16. rock and roll wrote:

    this is only money drugs and rock and roll

    the people who bring this young stupid kids make a living for the year.

    collecting money and living the life in america.

    the kids are victims the are sent as soldiers in an army that fight for one cause power and money.

    moshiach has nothing to do with it.

    brain washed by the profecionals and fighting for the achmedinagad of the day .

  • 17. generation X wrote:

    A whole generation ruined because a few people had an agenda, very sad theres no turning back!.

    These “boys” are only the result (effect), we must go after the cause.

  • 18. Gershon wrote:

    We should chop down the whole Kingston and make it an official Simchas Beis Hashoeiva center.
    Or we should build a hotel that’s an exact duplicate to that of 770 and let all the guests sleep there and we’ll have our shul and seats back.
    Or why don’t we tell the El Al airline to not sell tickets to people under the age of 25.

    -I know that usually everyone comes up with crazy ideas to these Op-Ed things, so i just started the trend – sorry that it had to take up a comment space but lets allow real comments here and not uninteresting comments because when the list comes up to 200 comments then it’s kinda hard to read all of them.
    Here’s my opinion-
    Nothing is working according to ruling in Crown Heights. This place is out of control. If those Messianics believe that the Rebbe is still alive-then why dont they behave in a proper manner that the Rebbe will be proud of. instead they’re destroying the Rebbe’s Shchuna just to make they’re points clear that they’re nuts.
    One thing for sure is that it has to stop. It’s really nice that every Tishrei we have guests flocking in from all over to be Tishrei in Crown Heights – but if they’re coming to spend their Tishrei with the Rebbe and come and come and make a total Chilul Lubavitch (and if i might add that the Rebbe would have totally NOT approved of that).
    Some of the Israeli bochurim that come in that i know – aren’t even sure what the reason is that they’re coming. Just that they’re friend’s friend is going and needs company and that they have a house to stay in so they should shlepp along 7 other bochurim to stay in someone’s home.
    I’m sure that the Crown Heights residence wouldn’t mind having a few hundred guests coming in (and from ALL over the world), but not a few thousand.

    The police are going nuts – they cant control such a community where plenty of people disapprove of they’re neighbors. Firstly, with all the blacks and the violence here – that amount per day has B”H decreased. Now this fanatical acts that are going around are much harder for the police and our beloved Shomrim to deal with. It leaves a terrible impression on the police department, other goyim and on our fellow yidden who have enough things about us to complain about right now. Why should we add more things on their list? Are we looking to give people the most excuses possible to not like us? If ye then i might suggest to take bombs and blow up all of their Kiruv Movement buildings(which by the way they tried to copy our amazing shlichus system – and least one thing that the Rebbe set for us we adhered to).
    I know you cant say that you have to revert back to the good times and imagine that the Rebbe is here and all but you can think about what your doing and if you truly believe that the Rebbe is alive, then why would you go and shame yourself in front of him?

    Let’s just hope that Moshiach will come and all will be solved and figured out.

    ~Gut Gebenched Yar

  • 19. Yossi S. wrote:

    Genuch shoin! Rubashkin should have stopped these immature idiotic Tsfatim. The time has come for citizens to protest the non-permitted mishigas from taking pace before the non-Jews get the city council and mayor to stop it.

    Tachlis is this. Sperlin supports Bloomberg and he has to be convinced what to do next. Rubashkin is history, a failed leadership. He will soon be sentenced and out of Crown Heights.

    Lang does not have a clue, as wonderful a person as he is.

    Sperlin, right or wrong, has the heart and neshoma of Crown Heights in his sights, so he is the only hope Crown Heights has left. ALso he can talk to Rabbi Groner, his mentor, about these stupid little children who cause trouble.

  • 20. The blame game wrote:

    I’ve come to realize over the years that the “Mishichisim” relay so much on people being stupid. Always giving misinformation, saying lies as if they are facts of life. If you g-d forbid proofs them wrong they will accuse you of purveying hatred, bigotry and of being stupid, small minded this is a common tactic etc… (Instructive lesson in bully-boy tactics). They will say anything but address the issue. When the going gets thought they all of a sudden become a “seeker of peace”.

    Get ready, here they come… 1 2 3 GO…

  • 21. AZ wrote:

    To all those apologists who think that Ahavas Yisroel means live and let live, let’s all get on together, respect each other’s opinions and all that other rubbish that is a result of the liberal ideology.

    Try out this scenario, let’s say the president of reform judaism was to get up in 770 and preaches his “0pinion” to all who are there.

    Does your way of ahavas yisroel apply to him in the same way?
    are you going to allow him to continue?
    would you respect his differences in opinion?
    Will you call him a brother?

    Any of you who answer yes to the first 3 questions is not being honest! The bottom line is that ahavas yisroel does not mean that you have to accept someone else’s meshugass just because he happens to be Jewish or happens to “daven” in the same shul as you! It means that you have a wayward brother who needs help! It also means that if this person is having a negative influence on the s’vivah, then you have to remove this, VIOLENCE is the epitomy of negativity and your misplaced ahavas yisroel for these “wayward brothers” is overshadowing the ahavas yisroel for the thousands of other yidden in the neighborhood. As a Rav once told me, when you have a chumra in one area, it automatically causes a kulah in another.

    If you feel the need to have all this all encompassing ahavas Yisroel, then where is your ahava towards Rabbis Shemtov and Krisky??????

    Ahavas Yisroel with no limits, I DON’T THINK SO!!!

    GET THESE WAYWARD BROTHERS OUT UNTIL THEY LEARN TO BEHAVE IN A WAY THAT IS PEACEFUL!!!!!!

  • 22. a geshea lubavitcher boucher wrote:

    I would like to say a word to the so called “anties” and it may shock you” LET THE “MESHACISTEM” DO WHAT THEY WANT but I would like to say a word to the “meshachistem” DO WHAT YOU WANT BUT ON YOUR OWN TERF WITH YOUR OWN TYPE AND WITH YOUR OWN STUPID IDEAS, DON’T GIVE WHAT YOU THINK, SCREAM AND PIN UP to others. keep it safe in your own messed up minds DON’T EVER EVER EVER RAM ANYTHING DOWN ANYONE’S THROAT DON’T EVER GO ANYWHERE WHERE YOU KNOW YOU (NOT THE OTHERS) WILL CAUSE TROUBLE DON’T EVER EVER EVER GO AND CAUSE A CHILLEL HASHEM AND SPIT IN THE REBBE (WHO YOU SAY IS IN A GUF GASHMI) FACE DON’T EVER BRAKE OR STEAL ANYTHING (WHICH IS OSER BY THE WAY ALTHOGH I KNOW FIRST HAND MOST OF YOU DON’T CARE ABOUR HALACH AS I HAVE SEEN YOU WARING TIFFILEN AFTER SHKEA (WHEN IT WAS SHABBOS LCHOL HADYOS) AND STAY IN 749, OR THE MOSHIACH BARBER SHOP OR IN SOME BASEMENT DRUNK

  • 23. m n d r g wrote:

    such ahavas yisroel in lubuvitch this is defenately what the rebbe wanted everyone namecalling eachother (in public!!) hatzlochod to you all i hope you oned day youl stop and think about what you say and the way you act to your feelow jews even if they do things you disagree with this willl bring moshiach in no time

  • 24. head in sand???? wrote:

    “relax and take it easy”
    “The best way to deal with these people is to ignore them completely.”

    thats right, you do just that!
    when I see your Father,Brother, neighbor or friend getting the crap beaten out of him in 770 (or anywhere in that case) I’ll just tell myself “take it easy” “relax”.

    When your family is being insulted day after day, I’ll just stand aside and say “it’s all good, Lets just ignore, It’s going to just go away”.

    GET REAL!
    HOW DO YOU THINK IT GOT THIS BAD???

    WE WERE TO PASSIVE! We did not stick up for our principles, we ignored or worse we EXCUSED this behavior for to long.
    enough is enough!
    I WONT TAKE THIS ANY LONGER!

  • 25. right and wrong wrote:

    “Right or wrong, you’re passionate. You care.” If that doesn’t sum up current liberal/mishichist attitudes in the face of facts, I don’t know what does. Caring means more to them than actually knowing the difference between something that’s false/wrong and something that’s true/right.

  • 26. mishichistim=ANTI MOSHIACH! wrote:

    mishichistim=ANTI MOSHIACH!
    The sad truth is that the so called “moderate Mishichist” (I say so called because in the end of the day his Mishichist views have nothing to do with Moshiach and really there’s no such a thing as a moderate mishichist) would rather have 770 and Lubavitch at large running the way the mishichistim have been running 770 in the last 15 years just not to have Aguch running the show.
    They don’t want to have anything to do with authority. I believe that even if the Rebbe came out before 27 Adar in public and said: today I will fall ill and you should do this and that etc…abc123… We would unfortunately have the same trouble with the same trouble makers. Even when the Rebbe was alive and well (saying Sichos and responding in letters etc…) there were plenty of trouble makers giving the Rebbe a hard time.
    They call themselves “Mishichist” sad to say but the best thing that happened for them was Gimmul Tammuz (they were waiting for the day).

    History will tell that the Destroyer of the mishichist movement was not the so called “anti”, “Shomrim” or Aguch., History will tell use that the mishicistim destroyed the mishicstim.

  • 27. shmuel Y wrote:

    “Marred by Fanatics and Violence” How right you are, Rabbi Shemtov and the crown heights community should be ashamed of themself for what they have done. Not to allow what the community and the rebbe would want and even to try to get the police to stop it!!! I am sure that the Rebbe must have tried to once and for all come out of hiding in 770 where he has been for the past few years. I am sure that he was crying when they would not let the great (Tzvati) Bochurim put up the signs that are (actually I know this for a fact Yellow is the Rebbes favorite color)

    WE MUST PUT AN END TO THIS, WE MUST STOP THOSE THAT DONT LET OUR HEROS PLACE GIANT OUT OF PLACE YELLOW FLAGS ALL OVER OUR STREETS. if not for them Crown Heights would look cleaner and we all know that is not what the Rebbe would want. No we must not let people that actually saw the rebbe or understood the rebbe or learnt a real sicha decide, we must yield to the true chassid, the (Tzvati) Bochurim who understand and make a path everytime the Rebbe walks into 700.
    Oh one last thing, don’t forget to vote for Obama, a vote for Obama will take care of the (Tzvati) Bochurim problem as Iran will drop a nuke and get rid of their city forever.

  • 28. Bewildred wrote:

    Oy vay;
    I think I saw Moshiach standing at the corner of King & Eastern Pkwy. Looking befuddled by the arguments etc. He was about to reveal himself when he saw a sign fluttering in the breeze. “Moshiach is here.” Well in that case moshiach thought I am not needed and got up and left.
    Chevra, get your act together. This is not the rebbes Rotzen

  • 29. Let-s play pretend wrote:

    Let’s play pretend and just ignore the real problems.

    I can only imagine a doctor telling a person ill with cancer (may g-d spear us all) “just ignore it, it will go away”.

    my two year old (all two year olds in fact) when covering his/there eyes think that we really don’t see him/them.
    Are there adults doing the same thing?

  • 30. one way to win wrote:

    Yaakov, the choicest of the ancestors, teaches us that the way to succeed in our mission as a Jew in this world, especially in the dark moments of exile, is not by being timid and passive. Quite the contrary, it requires that we put on the clothes of Esau and beat him at his own game – that we fight cunning with cunning and chutzpah with chutzpah.

  • 31. why they hate us wrote:

    If we just learn to turn the other cheek this would not happen.

    If the Antis would just learn to take a beating with love, this would not happen.

    If we could all just learn to let people walk all over us, this would not happen.

    If we could always find away to blame the victim (of beating and harassments etc..) and not the aggressor, this would not happen.

    If every time they did a Mesira on us we would just plead guilty, this would not have happened.

    YO, WHAT HAS BECOME OF US!?
    Who gives us the right to defend ourself?? How dear we call ourselves victim??

  • 32. we are the Neighborhood bully not them! wrote:

    Well, the neighborhood bully, he’s just one man, His enemies’ say he’s on their land. They got him outnumbered about a million to one, He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
    He’s the neighborhood bully.

    The neighborhood bully just lives to survive, He’s criticized and condemned for being alive. He’s not supposed to fight back, he’s supposed to have thick skin, He’s supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
    He’s the neighborhood bully.

    The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land, He’s wandered the earth an exiled man. Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
    He’s always on trial for just being born.
    He’s the neighborhood bully.

    Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized, Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
    Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad. The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad.
    He’s the neighborhood bully.

    Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim That he’ll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
    ‘Cause there’s a noose at his neck and a gun at his back And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
    He’s the neighborhood bully.

    He got no allies to really speak of.
    What he gets he must pay for, he don’t get it out of love. He buys obsolete weapons and he won’t be denied
    But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
    He’s the neighborhood bully.

    Well, he’s surrounded by pacifists who all want peace, They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
    Now, they wouldn’t hurt a fly.
    To hurt one they would weep.
    They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
    He’s the neighborhood bully.

    Every empire that’s enslaved him is gone, Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon. He’s made a garden of paradise in the desert sand, In bed with nobody, under no one’s command.
    He’s the neighborhood bully.

    Now his holiest books have been trampled upon, No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
    He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth, Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
    He’s the neighborhood bully.

    What’s anybody indebted to him for?
    Nothin’, they say. He just likes to cause war. Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed, They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
    He’s the neighborhood bully.

    What has he done to wear so many scars?
    Does he change the course of rivers?
    Does he pollute the moon and stars?
    Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill, Running out the clock, time standing still,
    Neighborhood bully
    – Bob Dylan

  • 33. cher wrote:

    i was there with my kids they were crying. i say no more israelis let them stay in israel.bad enough they took over the rebbes shul,im sick of them i will not give a dime to any israeli with a yellow pin again!

  • 34. resident wrote:

    For all of you who just say, “It’s a fellow Yid…love him no matter what he does” is missing the point.

    Not only are the good people in the community suffering as a result of these childish Israelis who most of us no longer like visiting, destroying our neighborhood every Tishrei…..BUT you are also teaching the kids that this disgusting, anti Chabad, anti logical, anti rational, anti human behavior is worthy of the highest praise and good people should be treated badly…because there only American Jews who know at least how to behave a little.

    There will be no order in this neighborhood. For the sake of Hashem, let us get it together

  • 35. Why can-t we all just say Yechi? wrote:

    Crown Heights doesn’t Davven in 770 anymore, but thats alright becuse they get to wave a flag and sing Yechi all the time. Just what the Rebbe wants.

    Crown Heights does not go to Simchas Bais, But that all right they get to wave their flags and sing Yechi all the time.
    Just what the Rebbe wants.

    A generation ruined, but that all right we get to wave a yellow flag that says moshiach and sign Yechi.
    Just what the Rebbe wants.

    I must be crazy or something, being realistic and all.
    I mean didn’t I see the pictures on COL and Shturem and Jihad.info, there was 10,000 Lubavitch Chassidim (including all of CH) if not more in 770 this Simchas Torah. It’s me, I’m the problem, it must be!

  • 36. A note wrote:

    To a geshea lubavitcher boucher:
    Ouch! please stop screaming, I have an easier time listening to people when they are calm and rational.

  • 37. Let-s not get distracted! wrote:

    Let’s not get distracted!
    This has nothing to do with “Israeli” Mishichistim“ This is a mishichist problem in general.
    The problem is with the”whole” mishichist movement, there are plenty of these same types of mishicistim that live in Crown Heights.
    There are those that give money.
    There are those that give them a tap on the back (by excusing them etc..).
    There are those that have an Agenda (that has nothing to do with Moshiach) pulling strings.

    You want to kill the snake?
    Go for it’s head!

  • 38. ta wrote:

    more than anybody else, its our kids that are suffering the most from these animals

  • 40. why? wrote:

    i didn’t take the time to read all the comments, so maybe this was already said but:
    Why the need to report lashon hara? And why focus on the negative? I was there and my simchas beis hashoeva was not “marred” – I didn’t even know what happened till I read this article – thought there were just some technical difficulties or something. It doesn’t matter who’s in the wrong – there’s no need to publicly announce someone else’s wrongdoing. Moshiach Now! Yechi Hamelech!

  • 41. MADD wrote:

    everytime i discuss the messianist issue with people of no opinion,who say ah let them be what do you care why does it bother you? i ask them one question what happens if you your brother or father walk in the so called missianist shvil? will they get beat up by the fanatic missianist? the answer is yes they will. stop appeasing these fanatics who at the end of the day are just children just sent out of israel for their first year led by the “alter missianist bochurim” who stay in crown heights five extra years because they can’t give up all the action GET THEM ALL OUT OF HERE NOW!

  • 42. MADD wrote:

    a catholic co-worker of mine told me today ” we both basicly believe in the same thing, we both believe in a saviour except that cathlocs believe he already came and you ( believe he’s going to come….. missianism is not judiasm… dont be fooled

  • 43. CM wrote:

    its all Moshe rubashkins fault. he is a nut case who loves when the Zfatim do these type of things. He should be thrown out of Crown Heights. Not sure who is worse Rubashkin or OBAMA?????????????????
    ITS VERY CLOSE BUT I MAY HAVE TO GO WITH OBAMA>

  • 44. american boucher wrote:

    why dont people focus more about what happens on the streets of ch (crown and kingston) then on this stupid fight wich happens every year without fail
    so instead of fighting btween our selfs
    lets deal with something wich is a problem to everyone
    as for chilul lubavitch wich u r concernd let me tell u this ppl that come to ch from flatbush and willamsburg they dont come for the dancing they come for other stuff like alcohol and girls etc. so they really dont pay attention what the messhichistim r doing they are on crown and kingston they dony really care about what we do the problem is not the israeli so much but more the other ppl that come to ch

  • 45. Aviva wrote:

    Thugs, Bloodsuckers, TERRORISTS????!!!!!! Yes, there are some people who get a bit out of control with their fanaticism. But let’s not call another Jew by these names, no matter how much we are annoyed, bothered by them. Let’s save those words for those who REALLY deserve them. A person says something about himself with the language he chooses to use, and calling another Jew by those names doesn’t say a whole lot about the integrity or level headedness of the one using such names. (And minimizes the severity of the word TERRORIST. Ask a survivor of Arab terror how they feel about your flippant use of the word for people who are just “over the top” and annoying. Not exactly the same as those who blow apart the limbs of other people)

  • 46. bochur wrote:

    I think this is disgraceful. An event that is suppose to be so beautiful and bring such joy to jews around the world who come to crown heights has to be ruined. People need to stop justifying their actions and stand up once and for all. The fact is whether you agree with their beliefs or not, you should not agree with them terrorizing a community event and taking over. There is no place for those banners at an event that doesn’t endorse those beliefs. People need to stand up because they will continue to ruin everything. This is a reflection on thier parents, the yeshiva they went too, and lack of control from the leaders of Chabad. enough is enough already. For lack of a better word, stop bitching and whining and get up and actually do something about it.

  • 47. BP yid wrote:

    i came to simchas beis hashueva in crown heights determined to ignore the overall untznius, as I walked towards the stage i saw the yechi sign, I decided to walk back to my car and run off because I am a jew.

  • 48. not signing, just like everyone else wrote:

    why not get the INS to come deport them??!! one little phone call takes care of all the tzfati meshugugoyim!

  • 49. Eli wrote:

    As if we dont have enough people in the world who hate us as jews…
    65 years ago hitler didnt give a hoot whether we were mishichistim or “antis”!
    Ad Mosia?
    I love you all

  • 50. simplechossid wrote:

    R Ysroel Shemtov was wearing a Yechi yarlmuka in Simchas Torah’s day
    Everything is politics: yechi, not yechi, flags, no flags, Rubashkin, Chanina.
    Lets learn Torah,nigleh, chasidus, mitzvos vehidur. shlichus , afatzas a mAyanos. Lets bring naches to the Rebbe,don;t get trap by politics, internet, bittul Torah.We have very importants things to do

  • 51. bochrim wrote:

    why dont you write an article pointing out that this is what happens when you share a basement with a church in popacks building 712 crown (see the sign on schenectady ave)

  • 52. Feeling the warmth! wrote:

    Oh Please!

    At least these people have some fire. Look at you all! Your passion for life and religion has disintegrated leaving bitter cold people behind. Is that what you want to be for the rest of your life? Looking at other people to rationalize your own dissatisfaction? The yellow flags are becoming significant trademarks of Lubuvitch whether you like it or not. The young kids know that. They know they are making an impression no matter how much one huffs and puffs about it. Go on! Get mad about it! Write in caps or whatever satisfies your aggression, but you will only be viewed as a sorry individual with an overwhelming abundance of hatred that surely cannot be good for ones health.

  • 53. angry as heck wrote:

    these israeli boys are an embarrassment to the Lubavitch world. DO THEY REALIZE THAT THEY REPRESENT THE CHABAD COMMUNITY IN ISRAEL!?!?! WHAT are they thinking? There is nothing wrong with being a meshichist, but NOT like this.
    The Rebbe would have never wanted people to take his name and leadership and use it in such a way, it’s a chilul Hashem! Don’t these people have any idea what they are doing?
    This is not the way to bring Moshicah. We need to have achdus, not fight each other in the streets over such things. This is not Shluchus, this is not how a Chosid of the Rebbe is supposed to behave… these ISraeli boys need a serious lesson.
    Everyone needs to get a grip on themselves and fix this problem together, not just about the israeli boys, but about making Kiddush Hashem and giving the Rebbe nachas, NOT doing a chilul Hashem and A chilul Lubavtich. How can we bring Moshicah if we’re too busy fighting with each other?
    It’s so ridiculous
    YEAh and one more thing: WHY DO YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO REPORT LOSHON HARA??!?!?! WHAT is the matter with you people? You;re just as bad as the tzfat boys, going and telling the whole world all the negative aspects of Simchas Bais… it’s so sick, WHYY are you always looking for bad things to write about? Why can’t you let the world know GOOD things that happened in Crown Heights, give us POSITIVE feedback, it’s NOT that hard ya know!!!!!
    AND ANOTHER THING: all the name calling makes us just as bad as them. They’re Jews, they’re our brothers, they come from the holiest place in the world, but they are lost souls, and treating them just as badly as they treat us will not do ANY good. My gosh, do you hear yourselves when you speak? All these nasty words coming out of your mouths, you must think such things about yourselves as well in order to have the guts to call your brother such a name.
    Okay never mind the israeli boys now, Now I’m mad at the Crown Height’s community as well.
    Everyone needs to get their act together and WAKE up. Can you honestly tell me that the Rebbe would have approved of such behavior? I DONT THINK SO !!!!
    How can you expect Moshicah anytime soon with such behavior?

  • 54. the people who are responsible are: wrote:

    1-wilchansky
    2-hendel
    3-nachman schapiro

    the rest just follow

    curse them all for destroying everything thats holy

  • 55. trg wrote:

    Forget the meshicistim…the biggest chilul lubavitch is what goes on with our teenagers and those who come in to see them. The amount of untznius things that goes on is tremendous…and people notice that more than some israeli meshicistim. let’s work on ourselves first before we try fixing everyone else

  • 56. chabadsker wrote:

    all these crazy meshichistim can go back to where they came from. their extremisim is against halacha and causes others to say on us that chabad is not part of judaism etc.

  • 57. moishy wrote:

    “He who lives by the sword dies by the sword”

    Fanatical Lubavitch followers raised the fanaticism while the Rebbe was alive now have to deal with the aftermath.

    Lesson: The Rebbe was only a man even as great a leader as he was, still only a man.

  • 58. Menachem wrote:

    Its not the Israelis.

    It’s a select group of people who do this, and those people should not be allowed to be in Crown Heights.

    Their names and photos should be publicized and no one should provide hospitality to them.

  • 59. 1+1=2 wrote:

    when you have meshichist teachers in your mosdos.. what respect and truth do you want your children to find in torah true judaism – chassidus – hiskashrus – and.. tada! tznius!!?

  • 60. Lover of jews wrote:

    All evil comes fronm the North. We should give them one way tickets to India.

  • 61. crownheightser wrote:

    Shmchas bais hashoaiva was so beautiful this year! when I was watching all that I saw was the tremendous Simcha and Achdus between all types- there were lots of not lubavitchers there and every circle was a happy mix of everyone! just like when people would come to the Bais Hamikdosh they could think they were just in a slaughterhouse (from all the korbonos) and not realize they were in a place of immense kedusha, we have to open our eyes- see the Real stuff, and not get stuck on smallsidelines

  • 62. Chaim Rubin wrote:

    trg, go read FrumSatire’s Blog report of his visit to crown height simchas beis. He actually noticed BOTH terrible bezyauons. Each are serious problems, but the tznius is an internal issue our community needs to deal with (Mainly parents and teachers) The Meshichistim is an issue that hurts every shliach and every lubavitcher in the world. These crazy meshichistim destory our name and hurt lubavitch’s causes.

    Their biggest complaint (misnagdim) that we stood by and didn’t do anything and thats why we are just as bad as these crazies. They are right, we did stand by, we wanted to do Ahavas Yisroel, but we lost sight of the bigger picture. We are paying heavily for that mistake now.

    Chevra, things need to change here. We can’t let it get any worse.

    WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO? (aside from leave angry comments on websites)

  • 63. CHT wrote:

    Simchas Beis Hshoiva is an amazing, happy spiritual event, a landmark of Rebbe’s leadership and our Shechuna. And historically, as far as I can remember, the only problem that was associated with it was unruly behavior of young individuals. Not just meshichistim/antimeshichistim. Go a bit on the side from the stage and dancing and you will see more fights. And not just fights, but also inappropriate behavior involving young men and women together.

    This is a problem we are facing and dealing with every year. And we are dealing with it with ahavas Isroel because we know that those kids are better to be here than somewhere else. And lets not scale them based on which extreme of observance they are at or whether they are causing the problems at the center of Simchas beis hashoiva or on the sides. Those are kids, all of them, that have some problems and found some type of home.

    Please, let’s not derive ideological finger pointing from this behavior or use it as a material for Moshiach debate. It has nothing to do with it. All we are dealing with are troubled kids and let’s try to deal with them with most ahavas isroel.

  • 64. Annoyed at Popack! wrote:

    “Bochurim” wrote about writing an article about Popack renting out the basement of a building for a church. I don’t think that has anything to do with what happened by Simchas Beis Hashueiva. But, they have a good point. Not only is Popack renting out his building on Crown for a church, but also in his buildings on Empire and Kingston and in his building on Sterling and Brooklyn is he renting out to a church. Do you think this should be allowed? Yidden who are living next to one of those buildings have to suffer with hearing all the goyishe things that are being said and done in the church. And this is all because of a Poppack. And then the community council honors him for donating money to the new pool in Oholei Torah. Guess where that money is from? From the churches that he is letting into his buildings. It’s time to get rid of these churches that don’t belong here.

  • 65. Disgusted wrote:

    Does the Editor of this site have a mashpia??????? Who gives you a Heter to incite with hatred against another Jew no matter what he does??? What a negative heading to the Simcha of bais Hashoava..”marred by violence!??? To cause thousands of Jews to read and write Loshon Horah of the worst kind is outrageous!! It’s right after Yom Kippur! Yidden wake up, if you think something has to be done about the Meshichist find other Halachalicly acceptable ways to accomplish your goals. Public Loshon Horais totally unacceptable, it’s MACHTEE ES HARABIM!! ENOUGH ALREADY!!

  • 66. worried lubavitcher wrote:

    what lashon harah. it is a chutzpah you can write something like this. you are supposed to be reporting the news not your personnal beliefs. and the way you are doing it so blantintly, with out any embarassment. do you not think the rebbe would be less upset if he saw this article over what those tzfatim did. you are starting to sound like cnn and nbc, two pro democrat news centers witch are trying to make the democrats win the elections. you are creating a sence of hate among lubavitch witch is more of a chillul hashem for a non lubavicher, then what the tzfatim did. one more thing there is a big diffrence batween american mishichisten and isreali mishichisten(tzfatim).

  • 67. Outsider wrote:

    Maybe the teenagers are not strict about tznius because they’re disgusted by all the valid complaints mentioned here.

  • 68. this is the core wrote:

    ITS ALL DRIZINS FAULT. PERIOD.
    it all started when avraham mayor didnt listen to what he was told…

  • 69. MDARF LEBEN MIT DER TZEIT.. wrote:

    ITS ALL THE NACHASH’S FAULT
    NACHA”SH = NACHMAN SCHAPIRO.

  • 70. Roses wrote:

    I have no solution, but there must be someone, a few someones, many people who are outraged/frustrated at the goings on “L’Shem Shamayim” in CH. The worst aveiros are rationalized, “In the name of the cause.”
    People are allowed to have dissenting opinions, even if one groups appears to be delusional. HOWEVER, argue, debate…vocally…When ever in Jewish History was violence part of the picture? By one Jew towards another? Is anyone waiting, not for Moshiach, but, chas v’shalom, for another churban? Change your name from “Meshichist” to “Churbanist.”

  • 71. josh wrote:

    blaming other people for general problems is not really the key – it just gets everyone more mad at someone for no good reason

  • 72. Elliyahu wrote:

    Go home you DIRTY TSFATIM… we have good reason to reinstate STONING IN PUBLIC OF LADS WHO ARE “BEN SORER U’MORER”… there’s no question Moshiach is at hand to witness from the rooftop of “770” at the bleitant chilul Hashem of the Goldene Calf that the Tzfatim have created. Shame, Fe, Fe, Fe, Get out!! Parents of Tzfatim, where the H- are you, why don’t you deal professionally with your fukukde rebellious children!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!FE FE FE!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 73. mendy wrote:

    these Tzvatis are disgusting they were also cutting balloons from kids and making them cry cause it did’t say Yechi from COLlive!

  • 74. Yudell wrote:

    First of all, this article is very poorly written and definitely not news-worthy literature. Crownheights.info needs to raise the bar on the integrity of their articles by refraining from language that is politically incorrect. News can still be reported accurately without Webby’s personal biases. When an article does contain an individual’s personal feelings (like this one), it should be labeled as an OP-ED.

    Second, people should be aware that the reason for incidents like these (and the like) are because of a breakdown in the Chabad educational system. You can point fingers in a million different directions but nothing will improve until bochurim begin to receive an education that includes tolerance, respect, restraint, self-control, deference to authority… and the list goes on. Its important to focus on the source of this awful behavior and not get mired in the complications that it is causing; that will only delay the solution further…

  • 75. G-Ds Right Hand Man wrote:

    yahoo no boss yeah wherwe is g-d
    duh there are some problems
    yet we can reach agreement if that is what is wanted
    there has if someone rises up to strike you you have an obligation to protect yourself with any means available
    so when I saw at a simcha beis hashoeva celebration flags of foriegn countries i was outraged that jews have become the goyim and am outraged
    where are you from you are from where you were for the most recent shabbos if you are jews
    or walk the plank
    it is law abiding and and the lawless that share the world
    we don’t have to tolerate BS

  • 77. Oi B-ma wrote:

    I would rather have meshichistim with life and a few meshegoyim than “dead” anti-s and orderliness. What do they sing? “Geshturben iz adoneinu, moreinu v’rabainu? A ”museum“ bear doesn’t growl, bite, stink or steal. A ”forest” bear does. Which would you prefer?

  • 78. kind to the cruel wrote:

    To all those peace loving people out there,
    Many people were hurt by this group of people over the years…

    “If you are kind to the cruel you will end up being cruel to the kind”.

    You are not less of a person if you DON’T defend them.
    They are cruel people, don’t even try to justify (if you do, what makes you better then them?)

  • 79. anonymous wrote:

    my son and his friends from Boro Park went to crown Heights for Simcha Bais Hashoeva. They met up with a group of bochurim from Australia who made a huge Kiddush Hashem.

    My son came home with a very favorable impression of the Lubavitcher community.
    The fighting did not even register in his mind. He was to busy being awed by the Ahavas Yisroel in the community.

    Thanks Lubavitch.

  • 80. To: Oi B-ma wrote:

    To:Oi B-ma
    You call that life?
    What good has come from this “life”?
    Life bring to more life.

    Crazy is what crazy does.

    Id rather die standing (like a Chabadnik) then live on my knees (getting beaten up by your lively mishichistim).

    I see the “antis”/Chabaniks living more with the Rebbe who indeed past away then with the mishichistim and their new Rebbe the MH”M ShiLa.

    Liberalism is a sickness, go see a doctor.

  • 81. to CM wrote:

    It is not nice to comment on specific people. Imagine how you would feel if someone would say your a nut case and compare you to mishugoyim. How would YOU feel?!!
    WE REALLY NEED MOSHIACH NOW!!!!

  • 82. To LIFE wrote:

    To:Oi B-ma

    You can also find this type of “life” at
    Clubs
    rock concerts
    the labor day parade (plenty of life there)
    ETC…

    If you want TRUE LIFE go look at the face of
    a Bocher or young man that just finished learning something Geshmak (Sicho, Mamer, Blat Gemora etc..).
    go look at the face of a person that just helped another Jew in need.
    go look at a father and mother getting Nachas from their children.
    You can even go to the Ohel for a Shabbos and Yom tov to find plenty of TRUE LIFE.

    Kilipa also has life.
    The type of life you talk about you can keep for yourself, may hashem give all of that life that you want, if you don’t already live a life like that.

  • 83. M.B. wrote:

    i dont think anyone that posts this rants and raves against anyone reads the comments after their own. bc otherwise alot of comments wouldnt be repeated. secondly,whats ging on here is a major genrelization and looking at things in a really shallow manner. i think most ppl over do it when they make up violence stories about the tzfati’s, half of them are not true. the ones that are , are a lot less of the big deal their made out to be and thier only about a few ppl who ar emisguided- that has nothing to do with their mishichistness, theres misguided ppl everywhere. so when you here that one tzfati, or even ten tzfatis did somethign dont go bad mouthing all of them. thats their avdoa, or how they perceive the rebbes words. thats not even the point.
    thirdly, i know of a community that has anti and meshichist polotics, and many times over the past seven years of it, the “anti” community has slashed tires, ripped down moshiach falgs, and done many other acts of vilence and hate, meanwhile the meshichist community remained quiet in the name of ahavas yisroel and not reporting another jew. and no, bc of these incidients i dont thing every “anti” is evil and violnt.
    i siad what i had to sya, all those open-minded ppl out there can take it, the rest leave it. but please, lashon hara is bad for three ppl, and in this case three group, be carefull!!

  • 84. a bissel seichel wrote:

    WOW.. the anger, the foul words.. this from the rebbe’s chasidim ??? surely you care not for the rebbe’s kavod but for YOUR lubavitch kavod.

    Lets examine this, “you americans” come here to eretz yisrael and degrade eretz hakedosha.. do we tell you guys to leave and not come back? mechutzaf!

    Eretz yisrael belongs to every jew, and as such we cant tell you not to come.. crown heights is the rebbe’s shchuna.. who appointed you in charge ?

  • 85. propaganda? wrote:

    To: M.B.
    Were?
    What?
    When?
    Your stam halking a chaynic
    and using this web sit for propaganda.
    You have made a lot of statements with out details, thats worthless information.

    Your right with the point of not just blaming the Tzavtis (although they have free choice and do what they do etc…)
    we must remember that they are doing other peoples dirty work. We must go after them as well. kill the snake by cutting off the head!

  • 86. Bear wrote:

    “A ”museum“ bear doesn’t growl, bite, stink or steal. A ”forest” bear does. Which would you prefer?“

    What is that supposed to mean? (or what are you on?)

    [If I do encounter a ”forest bear“ that ”growls, bites, stinks or steals“ he better be in a cage. If the Tzvatis are that ”forest bear” then they belong in a cage].

  • 87. Enough! wrote:

    I was there on Motzei Shabbat. Shemtov should have not allowed the music to start untill the signs were taken down! It is time to stand up to the herisy of the messianist cult! By continuing SBH we are legitamizing them!

  • 88. Shomrim our protectors wrote:

    Shmetov is only one man
    He can’t fight (and I say fight because thats what they do) off all the mishichistim with out our help.

    Now, all these years he had Shomrim’s help and B”H things were good.
    It’s to bad that some from our community (shmira) have an agenda and do mesira all day.

    The only ones to loose from their actions is the community.

  • 89. rrrrrrrrrrr wrote:

    When people ask me if i’m a ‘Mishachist’ or ‘Anti’ my anser is

    ANTI EXTREMIST

    (get it?)

  • 90. Daniel wrote:

    To: Gershon

    those crazy tzvatim are just a bunch of retards – i doubt that they even care as to so much that we HAD a Rebbe leading us and we were respected by other communities. now all blame is thrown on us and they’re just adding more unto it-giving them all a better reason to poke fun at lubavitch
    PATHETIC!! (excuse me for being so blunt)

  • 92. who??????? wrote:

    okok!i hate to say this but we all have to get a long sinas chinam is what broght down the bais hamigdash i am NOT! saying that the mishichistim are right but not all of them are crazy and we relly should not fight when a fight is not needed come on the rebbe whould not and is not happy about this and…… WHO EVER reads this think about it relly

    this go’s for antis and mishichist…

  • 93. My humble understanding wrote:

    A little light pushes away a lot of darkness.We should be concentrating on shiurim addressing the issues at hand, and try to follow the Rebbe,s teaching to the letter.Talmidei Chachomim marbim sholom boolom.Evebody,s opinion is not the solution.The root of the problem is why do people come to those misbehaviour?
    maybe they need to koch in learning midos tovos?
    Koch in doing more mitvos and another yid a favour.the more light we will bring by STUDYING The correct behaviour ,the less space the Soton will have to bring its influence.
    TEACHING CHASSIDUS!!!!!!!!! TO LOVE CHASSIDUS!!!!!!!!!
    TO LEARN HOW TO TAKE THE REBBE,S WORDS SERIOUSLY,AND BEIING METICULOUS TO KEEP IT!!!!!!!.Why dont we go to the source of All intelligence,theRebbe.Shchina medaberes mitich Grono,The Aybeshter gave us all HIS MESSAGES Through the Rebbe.
    GO BACK TO SCHOOL.
    My humble understanding,who consider,s HASHEM IS GREAT

  • 94. Where is the love? wrote:

    I find it really entertaining reading all these comments and watching people blame others for the problem in CH. People are blaming Drizin, Rubashkin etc. I’m not from CH so I’m not all that familiar with all the politics, but one thing I do know, STOP BLAMING OTHERS. Look within yourself and see what YOU can do to help the situation. You really think the Rebbe would have been proud to see Lubavitch fighting over this. Moshiach will never come this way!
    If YOU see violence happening in 770, YOU do something about it, AT THE TIME. Don’t send it in to crownheights.info for the entire Lubavitch to scream about how much they hate meshichistim. It doesnt help the situation, not at all.

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