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JTA Accuses Chabad of Facilitating ‘Kidnapping’
About a year ago Marianne Grin, a Jewish woman from Florence, Italy, fled to Russia with her three children to escape a ruling by an Italian court giving full custody of the children to her estranged non-Jewish husband. The husband had successfully portrayed her as ‘mentally unstable’ to the Italian judge, citing the fact that she enrolled her children in a Gan Israel summer camp run by Chabad – which he argued was a ‘radical religious cult.’
The Italian judge agreed with this absurdity and awarded the father full custody, ignoring the woman’s claims that she and her children were abused by her ex-fiance.
Perceiving the ruling to be anti-Semitic, she took her children and fled to her hometown in Russia. Arriving in St. Petersburg, the Chabad Shluchim there reached out and provided her and her children with support and shelter, and enrolled her children in the local school.
Meanwhile, the husband, with the help of Italian media outlets, began a campaign to have his “kidnapped” children returned to him in Italy.
Since every Jewish school in the former Soviet Union has dormitories for needy children, the Italian media propagated that the children were being held in an “orphanage,” causing even further uproar.
Now a petition is being submitted to Secretary of State Hilary Clinton, asking her to get involved and have the children removed from their mother’s custody.
From the JTA:
A new petition urges the U.S. government to help find and return four children whose Jewish mother illegally abducted them from Italy to Russia, reportedly with the help of Chabad.
Launched over the weekend and addressed to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, the petition calls on the State Department to work with the Russian Foreign Minister to resolve the case.
In December 2010, after bitter divorce proceedings, an Italian court granted sole custody of the children to their father, an American lawyer based in Florence named Michael McIlwrath. According to court documents, the mother, Marianne Grin, who has dual Russian and American citizenship, had been found mentally unstable and psychologically unfit to care for the children.
During a court-approved vacation week with the children at the end of August 2011, Grin, who was affiliated with Chabad in Florence, illegally took the children from Italy to her native St. Petersburg where she initially placed them into Chabad-run institutions. In doing so she defied a court order specifically forbidding either parent to take the children out of Italy without the other parent’s consent.
Interviewed in St. Petersburg two months ago for an Italian television news report, Grin said she had taken the children out of Italy by car, using their Russian passports. News reports said Chabad in Florence and Venice had helped facilitate her plans.
Earlier last year, Grin had accused McIlwrath, who is not Jewish, of having been physically abusive to the children. She also claimed that the Italian court decision that had awarded him custody had been influenced by anti-Semitism. On the Italian TV news report, Grin refused to allow the children to view a video message from McIlwrath and said that she had the financial resources to take the children elsewhere to keep them away from their father.
Concerned for our Image
When Lubavitch does bad, we have to be the first to come out and loudly condemn it, so no one says we don’t care.
Milhouse
Good. It’s a mitzvah of pidyon shevuyim, and one is even allowed to break shabbos for such a purpose; kol shekein that one may and MUST ignore the law.
Stop assimilation NOW
When kids assimilate, shave their beards, wear short skirts, low cut tops, text on Shabbos it’s only a tiny step R“L to intermarriage.
Parents, open your eyes. Our children are not just ”CHILLING“. The chilling truth R”L is that they are slowily leaving yidishkeit altogether.
Speak to your little children, as young as 4, 5, 6 years old about the joys and beauty of a furm lifestyle. If they come home wanting to “be like their friend who … watches goyishe videos or wears untzniusdike clothing or anything that is not line with halacha, REALISE that your child is already wavering on the fence. You have to strengthen him/her. If you can, and in turn you can save your child’s friend, beautiful. However, if the pull is too strong, it says clearly in Pirkei Avos, ”STAY AWAY FROM A BAD NEIGHBOR“.
Insist that each school has a FRUM class and a L”A “Modern class”. Tell that you pay for your child’s education and will stop paying if the teacher isn’t Frum. It’s up to you. Your child’s life is at stake!!!!!
Don’t come crying when there is an intermarriage and asubsequent custody battle… thechildren will suffer the most regardless which parent “wins”.
Backwards
It sounds more like the Italian court is trying to facilitate kidnapping.
Don-t embarrass frum
Agree with Concerned for Our Image. If Lubavitch does something wrong, we have to show we will not accept it. Both parts of the article state Chabad is helping international kidnapping of children, violating laws of different countries. It’s an embarrassment.
Also, there is a video of Marianne Grin on the link above about Italian media. she is definately not frum, but she does seem mentaly deranged.
CHinfo Poor journalism
JTA makes no such claim, at least not in the article that you’ve posted here. It’s really regrettable that you would intentionally misrepresent their article. The only references to Chabad are that she was affiliated with them in Italy, that they provided resources in Russia, and that “News reports said Chabad in Florence and Venice had helped facilitate her plans.”
Please correct your misleading headline.
Simcha
I watched the video of this lady on the Italian media link. she’s not frum, for sure. there is also letter on website for Grinn getting helped by Russian Orthodox Church in Italy, which is christian, like catholic I think.
she says she never sent the kids to yeshiva but the yeshiva director and a teacher at the girls school say the children lived there. Grinn is obviously a lier.
why Lubavitch help a person so crazy who is not even frum and is getting help from a cristian church?
What a man sows, he will reap!
Judaism is facing the same situations that every other religion faces….these kids/adults get into trouble and come running home when things don’t work out claiming their religious heritage…..think Gd is listening….ha!
Think Gd is listening to America now…ha!
Milhouse
#1 and #5, what are you talking about? It seems like you worship the law instead of the Torah. These children are Jews, so they must be saved from being raised as goyim, and NOTHING can stand in the way of that, certainly not so trivial a thing as some country’s law! I don’t understand how anyone who claims to be a Lubavitcher could possibly think otherwise. If Lubavitch did this then they did the right thing and should be congratulated, not condemned.
Chaim Tovim
Chabad should strongly condemn the woman’s kidnapping of her children. NEVER is one allowed to kidnap their children! Please come out and condemn what she did and help investigators return the children
Mendel
I remember her, her three boys and daughter. She is a very sweet women who was dealt a horrible life.
I hope all works out well for her at the end.
Simcha
Milhouse, #9, what you are saying? This lady is just Russian that is scamming generosity of Lubavitch. She don’t care that children Jewish or that Lubavitch get in trouble for breaking the law. This is clear in video put by #5 and on same site there is letter from CHURCH! If you read Russian you can see letter say church trusted her.
Why? You think Russian church help raise children as Jews?
L-italiano non vero
What happened is as follows:
a) The meshuggene kidnapped her children and realized she could not take care of them. She therefore turned to the Jewish world’s number 1 address for such matters – Chabad.
b) Chabad in Peterburg ended up between a rock and a hard place because the orphanage was taking care of Jewish kids who were in need but the director knew full well the woman was meshugge. The kids are no longer even in that institution.
I read and understand Italian quite well. NOWHERE is the husband accusing his ex of being meshugge davka because she put the kids in any Chabad institution. There is a clear psychiatric report from an official body that (rightfully) classifies her as mentally ill. I don’t even have to understand what she is saying to know she is tzu drayt, but her shockingly coarse language, which I cannot translate on a frum site, is just one of the many signs that she is missing quite a few bolts.
Chabad simply did the right thing for the kids and put itself at risk – which is typical Chabad mesirus nefesh when Yidden are in distress. Russian law is a sham and Chabad is far better connected than the father, so Chabad hardly took any risk in doing the right thing for the only real and innocent victims – four Yiddishe kinder.
JDE
@Milhouse,
What the article above isn’t telling you is that her ex-husband was pursuing conversion and intended to raise the children as frum Jews. Furthermore, there’s reason to believe, as a few of the others here have pointed out, that she isn’t frum.
What happened is that the Chabad people involved in this heard that the husband wasn’t Jewish, and stopped listening. This bias is reflected in the article: “The husband had successfully portrayed her as ‘mentally unstable’ to the Italian judge”. In fact, Italian courts are extremely sensitive concerning maternal rights, and award custody to the mother in 98% of such cases. If they awarded custody this time to the father, they apparently had overwhelming evidence of her instability and state of unfitness as a parent.
Mendel Mendel
This article is misleading. If you watch the Italian video of the interview with the mother it becomes obvious that she is nuts and a liar. She freely uses obscenities and makes obscene gestures with her hands. Even the chabad menahel of the school she put the kids into says she is nuts. This whole story has nothing to do with raising the kids Jewish or frum. It’s about a crazy woman. She’ll turn the kids into monks and nuns rather than return them to the father.
Milhouse
Chayim Ra’im, how can you say such a thing? It is a clear law in Shulchan Aruch that it’s such an important mitzvah that one may even break Shabbos for it, so how can you say that it’s not allowed?! What is your source anywhere in the Torah for your statement? Or do you just not care about the Torah? I’m shocked that such opinions can exist among supposed Lubavitchers.
Milhouse
Don’t forget that as far as we are concerned the nochri is not their father. He has no rights over them. So why should we be concerned about him?
Milhouse
#12, I don’t care what HER motives are; all that matters is that yiddishe kinder are being raised as yidden instead of as goyim. Whatever is necessary for that to happen is a mitzvah, and if the law gets in the way so much the worse for the law. That is all.
L-italiano non vero
I would have to say that at the end of the day a moisad directed by Rabbi Chaim Tolchinsky, whom I know quite well, is probably the best place for those poor kids.
I don’t believe for one moment that they would have a Jewish upbringing with the father, who could not be too stable himself if he had four children with a meshuggene. As for the prevention of contact issue, this was at the request of the mother and R’ Chaim rightfully worried she would put them in a shmad institution if he did not comply with her requests.
Sadly, they are probably in a kloister by now.
Some creeps in the very assimilated Florence “Jewish” community are using this story to try to get Chabad in trouble. That is why Chabad is being accused of kidnapping here – but that issue is a sideshow.
Former Florentine Jew
The article does not do justice to the situation that I remember. I knew this woman when we lived in Florence and our children went to the same Jewish kindergarten as hers. This was up until 5 or 6 years ago. I would not call her a meshuggene, at least not then. She was bright with a sharp wit, and charming until her mood would swing, when the trailer-trash character that appears in the video would emerge.
She was erratic and no one wanted to find themselves on the receiving end of her emotions, which probably made her feel more isolated. People would deal instead with her husband, a total mensch, kind and gentle, which comes across in the Italian video. He was the reason their kids were also calm and well-behaved. I suppose she lost her hold on reality when even he said basta. We were no longer in Florence when that happened so I don’t know the details.
It distresses me to see her being mocked by some of the bloggers above. No, she is not frum, not by a long shot. She ate treif, sometimes right across the street from the Synagogue in the company of other parents, ignoring our harsh glances. But the point is she is not responsible for her behavior. She needs help. I would expect people, especially here, to show compassion towards her condition.
Not Frummer than Hashem
Milhouse: Your fanaticism is Avoda Zara that turns people’s hearts from our father in heaven.
unreal!
Whether she is a liar and not frum guys the main point is THE CHILDREN ARE JEWISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!So u only want to help frum Jews?Is that the message I am getting here? So, right, better to give the kids to the father because the mom is not quite right.Who cares if they are Jewish, huh? WHAT HYPOCRITES I see here. Kudos to the shluchim who go out of their way to help JEWS!!! Ever think maybe the Torah comes first?
Mendy Hecht
What a mess.
But it seems that Chabad did the right thing here.
Except, of course, to those who hate Chabad and to whom Chabad is guilty until proven innocent and which never does anything good–at least not reportage-wise.
Milhouse
#21, What fanaticism are you talking about? I haven’t expressed any fanaticism. I’ve stated a very moderate position, which is CLEARLY the position of the Shulchan Aruch, and therefore of all Jews. The only avodah zarah I see here is of those who worship the law, or public opinion, and would put it ahead of saving Jewish neshomos. Please explain how you can justify that.
moshe leib
This is one of the Jewish students in Florence.I have spoken with Rabbi Borenstein director of Chabad Florence Italy. .It is not word for word of what he said – but more or less this is what he told me.
I know marian Grun and her children for several years. She came every Friday evening to the Chabad House . She is a wonderful mother being very dedicated and with lots of love to her children. Me and my wife and all the people who came to the Chabad House can guarantee her being completely normal and sane. How? Because we know her for years.
Somehow her very wealthy ex husband – the goi who wants to destroy her – at any cost – to take revenge on her for leaving him because of his “faithfulness” found a way to convince the court psycho to declare her completely crazy in order to remove her from her kids.The husband does not want the kids because his new girl friend is not interested in his brats. He wants to give them away for adoption and the oldest one into a mental institution.He is compelled to declare his oldest son as being crazy – because otherwise when that son reaches the age of 18 he can make a court case against his father for beating him brutally all these years.If he makes the court case in the USA – then the father risks losing him lawyers liscence
The woman escaped just in time. Several days before the hearing where her ex husband wanted her name removed from all the childrens documents. The cruelest thing that you can do to a mother is to take away her children from her. She had nowhere to turn to. Even the local Jewish comunity was afraid to do anything for her. I spoke with one of the most famous lawyers in Italy who happens to be a member of the Florence Jewish comunity – who told me that you can see from the court verdict that everything is against her but that there was very little he could do,
She could not go to the police – because the court has the police in their power.
She had to face a bitter choice. Or abandon her children and suffer for the rest of her life or else take the risk of “KIDNAPPING” her own children at great risk – because if she was caught – she would not only lose her children but also go to jail/ She could not go to the USA or Israel – because the authorities would send back the children to Italy because of the Hague convention. The only place that she could go to was to Russia – which is not complying yet with the Hague agreement.
She did not even have any usa passports for the children because her ex husband had taken them away. She had to travel to Russia to renew her fformer Russian passport from the 1980 – from the the time when she left- and now also put her children on that passport. Nobody helped her escape. She just picked herself up one day and just left. She did not need any help in calling a taxi to go to the airport.
By the way the court gave three reasons why he should get custody and not her 1) Since he is rich and she is not – therefore the children will have a better life by him then by her . ( It seems that they forgot all about mandatory child support ) 2)Since she frequents extremist groups like the Chabad House in Florence and sends her kids to a radical extremist camp – gan Israel – therefore the kids have to be taken away from such a kind of life The court did not even bother to check if we are radical or not. They never came to us to check things out. If they would have done some research they would have found that the Lubavitch school in Milano which runs the Gan Israel Camp has been awarded several honors for the good education. 3) That she is completely crazy and beserk and is completely uncapable of taking care of the children. A tremendous disgusting lie. If any body is insane it is for sure not the psycho or the ex husband because they knows very well how to take care of themseves.
Former Florentine Jew
#25 Moshe Leib,
What you are saying might make sense to someone who has no idea what goes on in Italy or who knows nothing of the Florence Jewish community.
I remember Rabbi Borenstein from our time in Florence and he had very poor relations with the local Community, I am sorry to say. what you write is so bizarre that you have to ask yourself about him. I would like to see such a court decision in Italy because it is impossible. As I wrote before, the father is one of the most decent people I ever met and his children adored him. everyone at the school knew the mother had serious problems, and could be violent, erratic. We would not leave our children alone with her.
I was at their house many times and they were not rich. Both had jobs as lawyers working for a large American company. Good jobs, but not enough to call them “rich” unless you call living in a 3 bedroom apartment near the stadium and being able to afford a nanny. Rich is just fantasy. Also, when I knew them she was not associated in any way with Rabbi Borenstein or Chabad, and of this I am certain.
Anyway, watch the video. To say “the husband does not want the kids…” then why is he fighting to get them back, petitioning Clinton? Can you watch her vulgar, disturbing behavior, potty mouth in front of her small kids, and not be concerned for the children?
L-italiano non vero
Not a meshuggene?
“I would not call her a meshuggene, at least not then. She was bright with a sharp wit, and charming until her mood would swing, when the trailer-trash character that appears in the video would emerge.”
“everyone at the school knew the mother had serious problems, and could be violent, erratic. We would not leave our children alone with her.”
LOL. It is so obvious that this Former Florentine Jew is just posting here to knock Rabbi Borenstein and Chabad.
If that behavior isn’t indicative of mental illness, I don’t know what is.
The fact is that those kids are best off where they were before – in the Chabad school and dorm in Peterburg.
moshe leib
Rabbi Borenstein also told me that the husband is a very good actor. For a while he even fooled him into thinking that he was right
Yes Rabbi Borenstein told me that he himself saw the court ruling and that he has a copy of it on his computer.. Of course it is in Italian.
The husband gets a lot of litigation work for General Ekectric. It is too much for him to handle. So he parcels it out to many other Italian lawyers – who therefore are very grateul to him for their parnasa. Therefore they also try to help him in any way possible.As Moshe Kotlarsky always used to say. In this world – it is not what you know but whom you know.
The so called poor relationship between the comunity and Rabbi Borenstein – is just like in any other city where the local so called orthodox rabbi is jealous of the success of Chabad. Lately the comunity is trying to get rid of that Rabbi and he is already with one foot out. In fact as I see it – the members of the comunity respect Rabbi Borenstein very much. Lately – another Chabad Shaliach a certain Rabbi volovsky has come here to teach the kids in the comunity with their complete knowledge and will help Rabbi Borenstein.
Ebrea di Firenze
Moshe Leib, if a Chabad rabbi says such loshon hora, he must ask G-d to forgive him, but this really sound like Marianna talking, who think everyone against her.
All the children was in our school, and everyone know this sad story, and Marianna that is not well. All at school or office at synagogue can say to anyone what is true. People is friends with the father only because they know him from long time and is a nice guy, he always support the Jewish education of the children. No one ever say to me he is not Jewish, so maybe this part is also wrong. Anyway, he bring the children to school on bicycle, drive normal car, and they lived in medium apartment, not fancy.
If you do not believe me, the video is clear. You can see he is normal, worried about children, and just want to tell kids he loves them. Marianna is lying and saying obsenities in front of kids, does not let journalists show them video of father saying he loves them and misses them. She is on TV talking to journalists, showing she is a “good mother” by being cruel to her own children?
What you say about divorce case is not true. In Italy, judge gives to mothers custody 100% of the times, and like all cases Marianna first got custody and alimony, but then she did bad things. I do not want to say what she did to children (I do not say loshon hora) but you can imagine from the video. This force the judge to change custody to the father, she give the judge no choice, but she still get visitation and alimony and live in his apartment.
Marianna is not religious and I also believe the children will not have Jewish education very long if they stay with her. “L’italiano non è vero” is right about that.
It is not a secret that Lubavitch rabbi is not in good relationship with Jewish community in Firenze. Passing around loshon hora will not fix his big mistake. I can give my contact information to anyone who want to verify the real story.
Sorry also about my English, but better then my Hebrew from studies (maybe next year in ירושלים…)
Ciao!
Avraham Yosef Follick
Milhouse is certainly right in this. We have a principal in Torah of Dinah D’Malchusa Dinah Hu, that we should follow the law of the land as a religious obligation too. However that only applies where civil law does not contradict the Torah. In this case the non-Jewish father has no custody rights according to the Torah. If he were to convert to Judaism at this point, he would still not have custody rights. Making sure that children are not taken away from their mother to be given to a goy is certainly the right thing to do.
Also, Milhouse, congratulations for being called a fanatic for supporting doing the right thing and following the Shulchan Aruch. That is a wonderful thing to be called.
Former Florentine Jew
L’italiano non vero,
LOL, you are right! I have the defect of hopimg for the best in people and I suppose I do not equate suffering from mental illness with being flat-out crazy. Also, we were sort of friends for a while, and gave up because she was too emotionally draining, so on some level I must feel guilty and want to believe she’s not as bad as she really is.
I feel sorry for her. Sue me.
I did not mean to knock Chabad. While I’m not Lubavitch, I have eaten enough Chabad cholent in my day to qualify for honorary status, and I admire the young couples who help us wanderers stay in touch. I was just remarking that the bad blood between Rabbi Borenstein and the Jewish Community was well-known, even to foreigners like us, and that Marianne was a part of the Jewish Community. Borenstein did not have any local Florentines, just tourists passing through town. The Florence “Chabad House” back then was just a tiny storefront near the shul that was only active for Shabbat. That’s all. Things could be different today. I don’t know.
This discussion is making me nostalgic.
Milhouse
#30, “Dina demalchusa dina” does NOT mean “that we should follow the law of the land as a religious obligation too”. This is a FALSEHOOD. There is no religious obligation to obey the law. Ever. You will not find such an obligation anywhere in the gemara or in any rishon, or in the Shulchan Aruch. It simply doesn’t exist. People who claim it are usually either amhoratzim who can’t translate simply Aramaic, or apologists who don’t mean what they say.
Nonetheless, it’s not relevant to this story, because here there is a clear obligation in Shulchan Aruch to save these children, so there’s not even a question. And thank you for the congratulations. As Papos Ben Yehudah said to Rabbi Akiva, “Ashrecha shenitpasta al divrei torah”.
moshe leib
.This is Moshe Leib again. – I personally know Rabbi Borenstein who is a wonderful man and does not speak loshon hora chas veshalom.The only thing that I can think about is that he exposed someone who claims to be frum – that he is actually married to a …. for many years that such a person cannot be trusted for matters of kashrut because of his way of life.
When it comes to LEAFRUSHE MEISURA – not only is it not forbidden to talk but on the contrary you are obligated to warn the people not to be fooled and beware of that persons so called frumness. In fact – that person has made several comments here knocking and belittlleing Rabbi Borenstein
L-italiano non vero
Once again, at the end of the day, the best place for these kids is with Chabad in Peterburg. Maybe Chaim and Rabbi Pewzner can do something to get them back into a system where at least they have some chance of growing up as normal Jewish kids.
The father is a good actor. If he is a courtroom lawyer, he knows very well how to put on a show. I would not trust him for a moment to bring the kids up as anything but non-Jews, especially if he remarries.
The mother is clearly mentally ill and unfit.
john
Go Rami and Rabbi Borenstein you guys are the best poshut standing up for yiddishkeit in italy
Malina
Of course the husband will be a good actor and a charmer – he is a lawyer – that’s his job!
Does not matter this woman swears or has mood swings, Jewish or not, she is these children’s mother and did the right thing. It is unnatural and insane to grant full custody to dad in any case!!
Yoel in Europe
Marianne Grin has resurfaced. Here she is in the Russian media, at an event organized by an a noted anti-Semite, Nikolai Starikov.
http://drugoi.livejournal.c…
The pictures and the TV news show her speaking in favor of the new Russian law banning Americans from adopting orphans, and having her daughter tear up her American passport on camera, under her approving eyes.
Very sad to see this woman’s continued deterioration. I used to know her in Italy. It does not appear Chabad is anymore in a position to bring her back from this dangerous brink, abusing her young daughter this way.