Lakewood Rosh: Lubavitch Not Part of Klal Yisroel
This coming May 21st, thousands of Orthodox Jews from all walks of life will descend upon the Citi-Field baseball stadium in Queens, NY to demand action on curbing the dangerous influences of the internet on the their community. Actually, Orthodox Jews from almost all walks of life will attend; while every Jewish community in the region received a delegation from the organizers begging them to attend, one particular group of Orthodox Jews was not invited: Lubavitch. One blogger says he knows why.
From Hirschel Zig’s Blog:
This week’s meeting with the Satmar Rebbe is only one example of the exclusionary tactics being used by the organizers of the Internet event on ער“ח סיון הבעל”ט. You can choose not to believe what I write here, if it makes you feel good, but I know it to be 1000% true.
Many efforts were made to get the organizers to include Lubavitch in this asifa. They were all rejected. For all kinds of supposed reasons. All people involved got the run-around, and the end result was that we got the message. Even the Skulener Rebbe said it has nothing to do with him; “איך בין אן אלטער איד און מען שלעפט מיר ארום”. Those were his words.
Even supposed friends of Lubavitch that are involved could do nothing. Lubavitch was not wanted here. Apparently some of the organizers, or do we say “THE” organizer from Gateshead/Lakewood, thinks that it’s his klal yisroel and he decides who’s in and who’s not. And this week they made it perfectly clear to the Satmar Rebbe of KJ that they don’t want Lubavitch there. That they’re not part of Klal Yisroel, to paraphrase R’ Malkiel Kotler. This is a kinus for part of klal yisroel, not klal yisroel. Not even all of the Ultra-Orthodox.
In case I wasn’t clear enough, here’s what happened:
A delegation that included the Skulener Rebbe, one of his sons, R’ Matisyahu Salomon, R’ Malkiel Kotler and the Viener Rov/Rebbe of Williamsburg went to the see the Satmar Rebbe of KJ this week. I think it was Monday night. They went there to convince him to sign on to the big Internet gathering.
They need him, because if he doesn’t sign on then his people won’t go, and that means thousands of empty seats at Citifield. (which is normal there, from what I understand…) He doesn’t want to go or send his people because he deals with the issue in his own way, he doesn’t need some darshan for ladies (no offense) tell him what he should do to keep his kids safe. And most of all, if he doesn’t call the gathering, he’s not going. He doesn’t play second fiddle to nobody. So he comes up with a lame excuse about 1866 Hungary, which everybody knows he doesn’t believe, but they can’t tell him that, because, you know, it isn’t respectful.
But how does he make that point? He asks them why one segment of klal yisroel, several thousand Jews with black hats, Lubavitch, namely, why they’re not invited, why they haven’t been asked to sign on to the kol korehs and get their students and fathers to come?
So supposedly RMK said something like “they’re not part of Klal Yisroel; that even though you daven in Chabad in Palm Springs I would rather daven B’Yechidus if I was in that situation.” So the SR used that to tell them, that just like he does that because he has a mesorah from his zeide and from the late Ponovizher Rosh Yeshivah, so too does he have a mesorah from his zeides. And his mesorah goes back to 1866 Hungary, not 1946 Brooklyn. (could we have expected him to stand up and condemn that statement?…)
Webbie
Why should we want to be there? WE ARE DIFFERENT!!!! V“NIFLINU!! We use technology, R’ Yossi Kazen started to do hafotzo via the net when it was i diapers with the Rebbe’s consent and brocho. We use it out in the open while the others use it for shtusim, narishkeiten and worse, all in ”secret>” And I know, I work on the web.
Some of us have to learn to stay in the lines and not misuse, but our agenda is bringing Moshiach with every means available. And so let them fight darkness with sticks while we continue doing our thing: tut altz vos ihr kent tzu beingen Moshiach!!!
Broadcast
And it will probably be broadcasted live on the Internet.
the real reason
They dont want chabad because they know we have no respect for this and this is all one big joke.
we are higher then them and they wont invite anyone that will sit there and laugh at them
no one special
Has anyone substantiated this report?
R Yoel Teitelbaum
i.e. Lubavitch is the closest religion to judaism.
dosnt sound like a seriouys article
i hope
C.H. goes with Winners ..Yankees
Citi-Field.. They must be Mets fans,
mas
so let it be known what his ID is:
He is the one who dumped his wife (of Brisker descent, Jerusalem) with a get of heter 100 Rabbonim, in order to move to USA and take charge of Lakewood (after the ptira of his father Rabbi Schneur), thus violating his promise to her that he will live in Israel.
The Brisker know him well and guess who guided him?
his good friend in Bnei Brak.
shlomo as always with bad English
sure he right! clal isroel don’t pray to red chair, clal isroel don’t say yehi fo tzadik, that now in a better world. so why yuo disscus here? say this to yellovpinned chrisians in 770, stop send kids to tzfat, be honest send them direct to NAZERETT same price
The Truth!
When Lubavitch Inc. proves they are part of K’lal Yisrael by renouncing the Meshichist faction, then they will be welcomed by the rest of the Charedi world. As long as those who believe that the Rebbe is someone to daven to (in clear contradiction the 13 principles of the Rambam) are tolerated, and not thrown out of official Lubavitch institutions, there is guilt by association. While there are those who will distance themselves privately (and are thus recognized and accepted as part of various Va’ad Rabonim), meshichistim are still honored in official capacities and considered part of Lubavitch. As such, Lubavitch will be considered part of K’lal Yisrael in the same manner the early Rabbis of the Conservative movement were – guilty by association, even if they were themselves observant of Torah law, they are enablers of heresy, and have no place in a Charedi (or even Orthodox) organization.
anonymous
can’t an article as strong as this be 100% verified before it is put online. It is a lot of accusations for something which was supposedly said!
Outsider
If this is true, there should be a delegation to the Skulner Rebbie Shlit”a who is behind this event, telling him that this is an affront on Chabad.
shoshana
works for me
yossi
a Kotler is a Kotler. They will never change. Let us not forget the Tzar his grandfather caused the Rebbe Rayatz and to our Rebbe.
Source?
Chabad (as least according to the comments posted on its sites – not the real ones, who actually have learned a blatt Gemara and a kapital Tanya) doesn’t really care about what goes on in the rest of the frum world – why should they care about whether they were invited. As the saying goes there are only two types of Jews -Lubavitchers and potential Lubavitchers. The fact that someone has a different Mesora means nothing. And the chutzpadik blogger, who likes to stir things, ‘says’ he know what happened? I expect better sources than Hershel Tzig’s blog!
Mordechai
http://www.enotes.com/topic…
http://www.haaretz.com/gene…
Kotler was married to a granddaughter of Reb Velvel, who had believed that America was a treife medina, unfit for habitation by devout Jews. Kotler’s wife refused to go with him to the United States. He sued for divorce, which she would not accept. To annul the 10th-century decree that declared divorce legal only by mutual consent, Kotler had to collect the signatures of 100 rabbis. Rabbi Eliezer Schach, leader of Israel’s “moderate” ultra-Orthodox, helped in this effort. His intervention was seen as a rebuke to the Brisker clan’s willingness to break up a marriage over extreme religious claims.
To #5
That was not R’ Yoel!! R’ Yoel had very good ties with the Rebbe!!
The person who said that was from the Lakewood/Bnei Brak people
Att. #10
NOBODY says that you should pray to the Rebbe.
Stop looking for excuses.
Believing that the Rebbe is still Moshiach is NOT heresy. It is in line with many Torah sources. Like it or not, accept it or not, it is not heresy.
Zigzag
Lubavitch was not part of Motzes Gedolei HaTorah.
It’s leadership is fractured and its members do not pay attention to directives so would anything at this gathering be adhered to anyway?
to #10
right on, good Sir. Chabad needs to renounce the Messianic’s or fall further into oblivion
Minyaner
mas
to # 9
the issue with them, did not begin with moshiach issue- they are known for their hate to chassidim from his grandfather’s time. it is a sin’ah and a result of a kin’o, as the known quote אין שנאה כשנאה מחמת הקנאה
yossel
reb shneir cutler was aidel and a freind of lubavitch
Yossi
Any chance for a rainout?
CH Lubavitcher
A) Reb yossi, comment 14, supposedly Reb Shneuir Kotler had a very warn relationship with Chabad so don’t write off the Kotler name just because of Aharon Kotler’s disgraceful act 70 years ago (sending food to Shanghai for starving bochurim and stipulating that the Lubavitch bochurim shouldn’t be included, subsequently at least one lubavitch bochur died of starvation) and a blogger’s unverified account of a conversation.
B) Webbie, the Liitvish community also believes in utilizing the internet for outreach, the only thing that they are pushing is for internet not to be utilized where not absolutely necessary, which is the position of 98% of Lubavitch Rabbonim (I’m on the internet at the moment because I’m a grub yoong, not because I think it’s appropriate…). Being that many Lubavitchers are like you who make like it’s a mitzvah for the masses to be online (we’re not talking here of the chabad.org staff), I think it’s a blessing in disguise that we weren’t invited because if we were invited and there would be thousands of chareidim and merely a couple minyonim of Lubavitchers, it would be a major accomplishment.
C) If Reb Malkiel Kotler really said that, it’s no big deal. Chabad will thrive with or without him. I guarantee if chas v’sholom Reb Malkiel’s offspring would fry out and end up in Palm Springs California, he would be overjoyed for Rabbi Denenbeim from Chabad to reach out to him, and 99% of his talmidim are well aware of that. Actually, a huge amount of the litvish baal teshuvah yeshivah’s students became frum in Chabad, so they would never really want Chabad to close down or Aish and Ohr Sameach would have to lay off most of their staff, in my humble analysis of the matter.
wht
nice shite sunni thing going on here w the jewish community. pathetic
Thank you Satmar Rebbe
Satmar has made great strides in making ahavas yisroel a bedrock of their movement. They reconciled most of their fights including those with Lubavitch and the satmar bikkur cholim is legendary in NY for the ahavas chinam they have. No Lubavitcher rov would undo the rebbe’s ban on their shechitah due to their violence, but it is clear that they have turned a page and done teshuvah, so my personal opinion is if the Rebbe was alive b’gashmius and would witness the next generation of satmar’s achdus, the Rebbe would remove the ban. And please don’t cite their internal fights as that’s satmars business, not ours.
Thinkster
Sounds like a load of %$#@ to me. Even if it’s true, so what’s new? The whole thing is a joke anyway. Maybe these guys want to live like the Amish, but I don’t.
To # 18
Saying Yechi after Davening is normal? Why else do you say it? Having Messianic Jews as Rabbonim is normal? As far as the rest of the world is concerned (outside of Lubavitch – contrary to the doctored version propugated by Meshichistim) to believe that someone can rise from the dead to be the Messiah is heresy. While you choose to believe otherwise – that is your own business. But the Modern Orthodox/Chareidi population of the world views Meshichist Lubavitch as something between crazy and heretical. As someone once said to me, if it weren’t so serious, I’d think this is one major joke. Thank G-d the next generation (except for the crazies) either rejects this joke(hopefully), or becomes modern orthodox, otherwise known as Chabad-Lite.
Nobody
#10 and #20, go learn some history. They were saying the same thing since the 1940’s in America, and before that in Europe. It has absolutely nothing to do with Meshichists, that is just the latest excuse.
It-s time to say the truth
אסר בשביל שתתעשר
The day that meeting is taking place some one is making a lot of $$$.
We should be proud not to be included in Korach Va’adoso.
I deal with every community, Chassidish, Lubavitch, Snags etc. the Snag “Rabbi’s” are the worst of the worst!
Their hatred to anyone who doesn’t think like them is shocking!
not to mention all the other aveiros they do that is starting to come out now.
yossel
Why report unsubstaintiated allegations that cause hepech ahavas yisroel?
This kinuus is not a Lubavitch thing and there is no reason to get into politica
Don-t belive a word
Unless I can see this on tape I belive this is bogus. someone is just trying to stir up some trouble etc. My Father who is a chosid with “a langer viese bord” has learned b-chevrusah with Rabbi Kotler recently and they discussed the Rebbe’s perushim. He is not a hater. Also do you think he ould be stupid enough to say this to th Satmer Rebbe?!
shnei-ohr zalman
i going to defenetially azkir al hatzion this whole matter sometime before lag B’omer, bezras hashem
To # 26
The Rebbe never banned Satmar shechita! It was Rabbi Dworkin A”H.
Pinchos Woolstone
Our Rebbeim set the Agenda for us and the World.
Let no one be misled by men of limited understanding and pathetic self interest
To #26
Yes they show true Ahavas Yisroel from the top down. The Rebbes are fighting in court about every darn thing that is going on there. Yes! True Ahavas Yisroel.
danger
One question to all the gedolim that are behind this event. You say a web browser is a terrible danger, but abuse of children isn’t. Look at your Yeshivas with all those molesters teaching there and you stand behind them.
chaim36
They were NOT invited because many are NEO chritians with this messianic movement. They are CORRECT>
Are we an exception?
To 37:
Do you mean to say that, until recently, Lubavitch was an exception? I know, very well, that perpetrators in our ranks were also covered-up and protected.
Of course, molester teachers is a terrible thing, bad enough! But does that mean we should ignore the problems of the internet because of this irony? Maybe, “victims” of internet addiction get fired up with a taavah to have “fun” with children, thus becoming perpretrators?
P-sak of a Rav is like the Rebbe
To 34:
Did you know that if a Rav Paskened something, it is as if the Rebbe said it too. In one of the Igros, that’s what the Rebbe wrote. So, what’s the difference, be it R. D’vorkin or the Rebbe?
Having said that, I got a heter (from my Mashpia, also a Rav in Lubavitch) that I could continue eating by family members, who are Satmar.
to 36
As I said, their internal politics is their business, not ours. I don’t know a single movement with 100,000+ adherents that doesn’t have huge politics. We in Lubavitch have that same issue that we have TONS of ahavas yisroel to every outsider, but we have poisonous internal poiltics. So if politics is the benchmark of forbidding shechita, our own shchitah (Lubavitch) should be banned as well because there is plenty of politics in Lubavitch.
To #29
Who said there weren’t Meshichist then too? Ever read some of the ‘Lubavitch’ publications from those days?
Andrea Schonberger
Dear #10, Please excuse my ignorance but I thought all Yidden were K’lal Yisrael. Can you explain why not.
We are Best of the BEST!!!!!!!
We aren’t part of klal yisroel completely because we are on a higher madreiga than them !!!!
Moishie
How dare you post this article. You are be mivazeh a Gadol Hador – Reb Malkiel SHLIT”A without verifying the story?!?!
FOR SHAME!!
CHT
This is exactly why at the present state Internet is stronger than Klal Isroel.
Naftali Michalowsky
I wrote a comment to the earlier thread re: the asifa. I don’t know any details, including those mentioned in this article, (which says nothing at all, because I’m not very informed generally) but I was told by one of those involved in the askanus that despite efforts, Lubavitch was pointedly refused representation at the asifa. I asked who was responsible for the flyers that were posted to the Crown Heights shuls last Shabbos, and my friend did not know.
Shame; I was looking forward to the trade show.
#29 is exactly right
This is just the latest excuse for what they have been saying publicly and privately for decades
anybody remember?
who remembers the farbrengen where the Rebbe said that someone sitting in bnei brak is davening with posele tefillin.
v’dal
hank greenberg
anyone want to join in and sell cracker jack’s, hot dogs, soda and the other traditional baseball food? WILL THERE BE A 7TH INNING STREACH?
they need us
TG malkiel kotler’s nephew doesn’t have his hangups and when he needed help with a horrible drug addiction r”l, a lubavitcher drug rehab program was there to save him.
So disgusted
This rally is based on hatred and therefore, will ultimately do zero for Klal Yisroel. These people have their head in the sand and they will continue to have their head in the sand.
We will prevail. They will fail.
boycott the sponsers
If this is indeed true and lubavitch was not invited,
we should boycott the sponsors of this event,The main sponsor being BH Photo. we need to stand up as one and let people know we will not tolerate such sinhas chinom
Moshiach Now
KJ has a Meshichist as the town Dr. and was taken because they saw his emeskeit when he told them he won’t take the job if he can’t were his yechi yarmulke.
Milhouse
#42, the Rebbe was alive and well then, so your new objection about Moshiach having to be a living person didn’t exist. So what was the objection then? The answer is that it has nothing to do with the Meshichists; the objection is to Toras haBaal Shem Tov, which was taught to him by Achiyah Hashiloni. And we already have the holy Maggid’s promise that “yad hachassidim tihyeh al ho’elyono”. Reb Chaim Brisker already said over 100 years ago that there are no more misnagdim leshem shomayim, and anyone who opposes chassidus today is like Korach.
Milhouse
#52, the rally is not based on hatred; it’s being called for a good purpose. We were disinvited, so we shouldn’t help them, but there’s no need to hope they fail. I hope they succeed without our help.
It’s the same with Kupas Ho’ir. I’m sure they do wonderful work, and all the stories they tell are true. But I will not give them a penny, on principle; if they want my money they can start having respect for the rov of their city.
if i had him for an uncle id be on drugs
51. they need us wrote:
TG malkiel kotler’s nephew doesn’t have his hangups and when he needed help with a horrible drug addiction r”l, a lubavitcher drug rehab program was there to save him.
malkiel kotler is a sad act . his empire is crunmbling with an unsustainable goal of every jew in kolel. In lakewood there are divorces of families whos father in laws can no longer support the son in laws study habits so the son in law sends them home to the parents so he can shtieg.
kotler will nver have any nachas as his zeide starved a lubavitcher bochur in shanghai and the friedeke rebbe would get aggravated just at the mention of the name kotler.
we dont need this asifa to justify what we do
we had the rebbe who gave us guidance that kotler can only dream about getting
perhaps his nephew should sit down and tell him about what lubavitch did to save his life and what kotler did by making him go on drugs
BH photo employees strike
To 53:
Does that mean Lubavitchers working for
B&H (yes, there are) should go on strike?
CH Lubavitcher
It’s in TERRIBLE taste to publish comments about malkiel Kotler’s nephew’s drug addiction problems (assuming it’s true, I never heard of that before). The Rebbe also had a nephew… and if a litvish blog would have commenters post that the Rebbe was responsible for shmerel’s sins, I would hope the litvisher blog would have the sense to not publish those comments. Lubavitch blogs should also have those standards. Not because Kotler is tzaddik yesod olam, but if he has thousands of followers that regard him as a tzaddik of sorts, it would be pathetic for us to write childish jabs at him. I agree to take him to task on his comments, if they’re accurate, just leave his family members out of it.
To Millhouse
I don’t hope they will fail.
Anything that is based on hatred ultimately crumbles. Truth emerges. If not now, then later.
You can not, do something b’achdus that is completely without achdus.
Their bans on the if nternet have failed, because it is based on a lot of sheker. This asifa will fail, even if there are some very sincere people behind organizing it, because it is rotten from the top down.
So, no, I do not HOPE they fail .They have, in fact, ALREADY failed.
Citifield backfire
1. I don’t believe that Harav Kotler said anything like that.
2. Why are they burning and pushing this Citifield thing? Why can’t they wait for the humongous siyum hashas a few months later that will have many more people and anyone can include any topic in their speech?
Misguided Brothers
I am not Lubavitch. I disagree with a lot of what they stand for and what they do. But who said anyone’s not part of klal yisroel? Yes. You ARE part of klal yisroel. You’re DEAD wrong in what you DO and i feel bad for anyone brought up Lubovitch (nebuch a tinok shenishba) and i LOVE YOU LIKE A BROTHER and you are part of klal yisroel… but that doesnt mean you cant be dead wrong (and YES! there IS such a thing as RIGHT and WRONG. The liberal world has changed us to believe that everything is wonderful and accept everybody. SOrry. The Torah is not liberal. Some things are right, and some are wrong and MANY practices of Lubavitch are just wrong and against the torah. Thats all.
to 58
I guess if they don’t mind getting fired, they can go on strike. Why would it be B&H’s fault anyway if Kotler acted badly?
Mr blatt
The problem begins when yungeleit in crown heights became daf yomi worshippers,the rest is commentary…….
NG, CA
#10 you are an idiot I’m sure for man reasons, but what you say about blaming all Lubavitch for meshichisten, is tantamount to blaming all Jews for Madoff – what th e hell are you doing on the internet anyhow?!
What happened to Klal yisroel!!!!!!!!!!!
These people should be ashamed of themselves…
i am no chabadnik but where is “veohavto lereiacho komocha” thats what r akiva said!!!
the problem with people today is that they have a shita… without MIDDOS!!!!!!!
The “Divrei Yoel” helped many zionists even though he didnt hold of there shita… that is ahavas yisroel… today everyone gets the wrong message of yiddishkite…
when will people wake up and understand that the reason why moshiach isnt here is becuase there is no ahavos yisroel…
Ribonoi shel olam where is emes in yiddishkite… a yid is a yid…
there is a musag of hamevayish berabim ein lo chelek leolam habo… and this is hamevyish es horabim boramim…
Im sure the satmer rebbe didnt mean it like this…
becuase he is more of a mench… its all got to do with politics…
Hashem yerachem….
What happened to klal yisroel…..
This isn-t the Purim shpiel...
“So supposedly RMK said something like…” I’m sorry, but this isn’t Purim. I don’t want to guess and wonder if this is fact or story. It makes me doubt the whole thing as something designed to incite comments. Which is what it did. Happy now?
anonymous
to 62: ahh you gadol hador gaon olam
Shach complained he was misquoted
You know, the Shach, when he was quoted as saying Chabad is not Jewish, got upset at this allegation. According to Wiki, here is what he said:
Shach is quoted as saying: “I have heard claims made in my name that at a gathering connected with the upcoming elections, I said the people of Chabad are not Jews. I publicly announce that in malice do they distort my words! I spoke in Hebrew, and this is what I said: what they [Chabad] do is not the ”Jewish“ way. They distorted my words on purpose to damage and libel me for they think that from this they will derive some benefit and gather more votes in these elections. And when they claimed that I called them the children of an impure woman, I testify before heaven and earth that I never said words such as these but only criticized their effort to build a ritual bath that was not in line with the standards of the Chazon Ish, may the memory of this righteous man be a blessing… I do not forgive anyone who fabricates words on his own and then says that I said them. And with this I request that each and every one will pass these words to his fellow.”[26]
[26] Defenders of the Faith: Inside Ultra-Orthodox Jewry. Poster on pg. 304. By Samuel C. Heilman Published by University of California Press, 2000 ISBN 0520221125, 9780520221123
Not an authentic Jew (No Black Hat)
Maybe if the organizers added a criminal to stand up for Lubavitch would be there! Try to find a henious murderer or something for them to call a martyr, just like the thief Rubashkin.
berel, shmerel
Rebbe was responsible for shmerel’s
—
I think you mean berel – (unless you refer to the failed shmendrick from the Midwest as shmerel, as while said micro-organism is not related chas vesholom to the Rebbe and is but the grandson of a two-bit gangster who offed himself rather than facing the law, the failed one prefers to blame the Rebbe chas vesholom for his aveiros and losershaft.)
B and H? Where do they come into the picture? They are Satmar Chassidim, and
To Misguided Brothers
Hey, Chochom, what are you doing on the internet? Your gedolim have ossured it. You are going explicitly against Daas Torah. What hypocrites.
You are a perfect example of the sinas chinam that is being spewed from the top. YOU are the misguided brother; you should learn some tanya. But, don’t worry, I love you anyways. Even if you go on the Assured internet.
Why The Shock?
Everybody commenting on this site sounds as if they’ve never heard of a Misnaged. Sinas Chinam is nothing new to these people…
To number 62
dear number 62: please detail things we do wrong so that we can correct our ways. Thank you!
ANONYMOUS
THE ASIFA IS MAY 20TH!!!!!!!!!
Seems that...
CH Info has been infiltrated by a bunch of pr agents defending the hatred of some of their leaders. Hey, Defenders of hate: You are all a bunch of hypocrites.
What are doing on the internet? We don’t think the internet is bad or good; it can be used for either.
But your people are telling you that it is all assur, assur, assur. How dare you go against the DAAS TORAH and surf this filthy internet?
You all lead double lives and are full of hypocrisy. Us lubabs are far for perfect, but at least we are who we are.
Who are you? A bunch of fakers that do all dovor assur when the Rosh ain’t looking. For shame. Don’t you come here and tell us about being religious. You would know frumkeit if it hit you in the face.
parsha thoughts
This week’s parshios outside of Israel is Achrei-Kedoshim. While being careful about the dangerous inflluences of the intnet falls into the category of being kedoshim, the parsha also includes the injuction of “v’ahavta lereiacha kamocho”,loving your fellow Jew. One cannot be holy, if one does not have love for a fellow Jew.
to 71
I stand corrected. I meant Berel (i.e. Barry G)
To #26 I agree with you 100%
To #26 I agree with you
To #36 don’t forget the court cases going in 770
I think this Satmar Rebbe is doing everything for Ahavas Yisroel. He is the firstone to make peace with Belz.
samuel
with al respect to chabad as some one who worked with chabad in ch very sad. but you are different and you are getting more and more away from all yiden that’s the fact and you all know it
Shakla V-tariya
If this ‘dude’ says that chabad is not part of klal yisroel does that mean he cannot eat meat shechted by a lubavitcher? (and mikvahs and other foods etc etc)
On one hand you are allowed to make a neder on yourself. and if you call something assur, then it’s assur to you as if it’s a issur gamur….. i.e. if you say that potato chips are treif to you, then they are treif for you and you cannot eat them!
on the other hand you are not allowed to make a tenai on something that is against torah, (hamasne al ma shekasov b’torah….) so in this case the issur would not take place. Writing off lubavtich from klal yisroel might fall into that category.
So what’s pshat?
yossel
People, people!
Take a chill pill, won’t you?
This alleged comment has zero credibility .It’s no more than even in the bloggers own words “supposed to have said”.
Never happened.
I”m surprised at CrownHeights.info publishing unsubstantiated allegations causing hefech ahavas yisroel during sefira?
Hayitochen?
Boro double Parker
This article is sure bringing a lot of traffic for ch info, I hope it also generates some revenue for you guys.
As far as this discussion, lubavitch has always isolated themselves from the rest of the chasidisher community.
1 they conspired that all other chasidim should move out of crown heights. CH was once a bastion of hungarian jews after WWII.
2 they don’t have any regard to any gedolim besides their own. They don’t think highly of reb Yoilish of satmar or reb aron of belz or any other gadol.
2 they don’t participate in tzedakos (charities) other than their propaganda machine. They can raise millions for their museum or for some parade but don’t partake in general public tzedaka. Even rabashkin (one of their own)….
3 they always claim to be welcoming. If I cut off my beard and payos they would be. Nuff said!
It’s a two way street. They isolated themselves, the believe the rebbe was the nasie of the entire world. Discrediting any o other leaders.
I have nothing against lubavitch, but they always wanted to do thirty own thing and believe they are the only ones in the right. One commenter before said “there are a few types of jews, chabad, and those who are not yet chabad
To #62
Gee thanks… I think.
To #28 (ironically b-gimatriya yechi)
1. Saying Yechi after Davening is not called praying to the Rebbe. Yechi is a prayer for the Rebbe, whether it should be said now or not is irrelevant. Satmar and others also use the same words of Yechi Admo”r, they are not praying TO their Rebbe, they’re praying FOR him. Plus, nobody said anything about normal, I’m talking about heresy, what are you talking about?
2. Please bring proof of where it is written and who holds (besides for ‘the whole world’) that someone who believes the Rebbe to be Moshiach is a heretic according to ANYONE?
3. Rav Elyashiv accepted a Ger that held such a belief, as has been publicized because people tried to get Rav Elyashiv to negate this person’s Geirus, and he wouldn’t do it. Because the man accepted every one of the principals of our faith. (Including Moshiach, and Techiyas Hameisim…)
So again, Chabad is very much a part of Klal Yisroel. And we deserve an invitation to a Kinus for Klal Yisroel.
Malkiel kotler well known
The freidiker rebbe called his father a roitzeach and he has kept his mouth shut about chabad all these years because if his heter meah rabbonim to not have to give his wife a get and remarried without a get
To all those people who agree with it
Why shouldnt you be part of klal yisroel? Then Why are you Lubavitch? If your Lubavitch then you must be Jewish! If your not part of klal yisroel then youre not Jewish!
to Boro double Parker
Actually, the Rebbe tried influencing the other kehillos to remain in CH and received a lot of agmas nefesh that they fled our tunkele cousins… So that part of your rant is inaccurate.
a pushita yid
Shame on you lubavitch
You have no respect for gdoily yisrol
Its they way you write on RMK and SR
I am really disappointed
I Like Lubavitch
Maybe the reason they were not asked to sign is because thy do not have a leader that the rabbonim can go ask to sign. Every chasidus but Lubavitch has a leader everyone in their sect respects. Since Samar has a rebbe (or 2) they can ask him to sign so that his followed will show up.
I think the whole asifa is a joke. But non-the-less that is why they didn’t ask anyone from Lubavitch to sign, there is no one to ask.
yudel
Chabad eats grapes and everything else that’s infested, they never made a “mivtza” from those “laven”.
to pushita yid
If RMK really said what is written here, he is no gadol b’yisroel. A gadol b’yisroel is a manhig yisroel who certainly would know that shivim punim laorah. Not someone who chooses which sects he likes and which to disrespect. If he never said what is written here then I would think he deserves an apology. If he has, then he is a baal machloikes, with sinah to hundreds of thousands of yidden who should do teshuvah.
to pushita yid
Not to mention, that if RMK really said what is written, do you think the chofetz chaim ZT”L would regard him as a Gadol B’yisroel?
use your head
Rabbi Kotler is too smart ,never would say that Lub is cv nor part of KI,it was just an interpretation from a not smart guy,from the fact that was not invited
I think that is a very god thing for Lubavitch not to be invited,because ,for most of us,internet represents a very important thing, and it would be intolerable ,specially for young people a ban, and we could lose many more from our youngs
otoh This wil bring more people to Lubavitch
Nobody
#89, that is what they said about the Ragachover as well. We have respect for real gdoily yisroel, not fakers. We aren’t always right about telling the difference though (we aren’t, after all, the Ragachover).
But typically the ones who get the grief are the ones who show no respect for the Rebbe. Sorry, I don’t see why we should respect that.
#83, you are very wrong. The Rebbe tried very hard to get other Jews to stay in crown heights – they wouldn’t.
I have heard nothing but good things about Reb Aahron of Belz, and the Belzer Rabbeim in general in Lubavitch. The Gerer Rabbeim as well. Reb Yoel is a bit different, as he had strong machlokes with the Rebbe – but he is regarded as a Tzaddik with a shita that is not correct.
Lubavitchers give a ton of money to many organizations. However, as a community we are much poorer than others (it is a bracha from our Rabbeim), so you don’t feel it as much.
I’ll agree that the welcoming part is an issue – but it is an issue within the community as well, with each other. So we see you as equals.
M D NIDERMAN
R Ahron Teitelbaum who made all this about Chabad and Litwish .how about his brother RZ’L with his major big chsidus are they in KLALL YISRUEL ??
Aziza
How dare anyone say that Lubavitch is not part of klal yisroel? who the hell nominated himself to decide such a sick perversion? Lets all remember the disrespect that R’ Shimon Bar Yochais talmidim had with each other. They need to openly ask for mechila just like they openly said loshon hara about them. TY to all the wonderful shluchim and their families who effortlessly work so hard all over the globe. It is in ur merit and because of ur goodness and kindness that mashiach will come soon! :-)))
shlomo as always with bad English
this man simple don’t understood what he do? if he understood they newer say this! such tremendous gift to modern Lubavitcher. it only hasidus, that named tzvaa, and hasid- is hayal. so how we can exist w/o real enemy? even that Rebe say, that it no misnagdim now. first thing that people learn in header. we are so important that we have enemy! not because we study and pray better,and do mivtzoim, as Rebe wish, but because we have enemy!!!!!
such dvash alhanefesh!
thank you reb kotler!
Rebecca
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Some think the earth is flat.
Maybe it is.
Lakewood Resident
Rav Malkiel uncle Gavriel Finkel heads Vaad Hadayonim in Lakewood Chabad in Los Angelos took in Gavriels son and wirked on him many years to Rehabilitate him from his Drug Addiction
Disgusted with the Fighting
B-H
I resent the nasty posts against those who still yearn for the Rebbe’s revelation as Moshiach. Learn the Sichos spoken by the Rebbe himself. As one who says Yechi:
1. I do NOT!!! worship the Rebbe, nor the chair. I worship G-d and only G-d.
2. The Rebbe said numerous times (it’s on video and audio) that the Previous Rebbe will rise as Moshiach and redeem us. If the Previous Rebbe can redeem us, so can the Rebbe.
3. I do NOT!! Daven to the Rebbe. I Daven to G-d and look to the Rebbe as my Rebbe and spiritual leader. I believe the Rebbe spoke Emes when spoke of the Previous Rebbe rising from his resting place and redeeming the Jewish people.
Please, let’s stop the stupid fighting and respect each other’s views. Unlike the students of Rabbi Akiva who lost their lives due to their lack of respect for their fellow chaverim. Let these Snags and Hunks have their kinus and we’ll continue to do the will of our Rebbe. Some day they will learn of their sinas Lubavitch when Moshiach does come and reveals the Emes.
Milhouse
#83, what are you talking about? How is it our fault that you ran away from Crown Heights? The Rebbe thundered about the issur in Shulchon Oruch to sell property to a nochri when it will damage your neighbours; he begged all the chassidim to stay in CH, but they ran away to Boro Park, and abandoned their neighbours to the kushim. Remember that in the old days most Lubavitchers didn’t even live in CH; it was too expensive. Lubavitchers moved in to fill the void when other yidden moved out.
And we certainly do have respect for all gedolei Yisroel. Some so-called “gedolim” are not even ketanim, but genuine gedolim, *including* R Yoel, are respected in Lubavitch. Even in ’37-’38, at the height of the machlokes with Satmar, I never heard a word against R Yoel. Nobody blamed him for what his chassidim were doing; we all assumed that he was against it, and would stop it if he could. In fact one of the worst things I ever heard in Lubavitch against Satmar was that the Rebbe is afraid of his so-called chassidim.
pinny
lets see if these leaders, who signed up for this event can do the same to unite brothers /rebbes/leaders…
for an asifa to condemn hatred amongst ourselves which is the real reason for the destruction of the children.Respect for rabbis and torah and any true value of yiddishkeit is being lost by our young but very open minded children.A fire is burning but its much deeper than the problem of the internet.
ozzy
I don’t kno y anyone cares about the whole thing it’s a bunch of clowns trying to talk aboutt an issue that they just invented so they can feel powerful over the rest of the world but they kno that they will never have any power over chabad so y should they include them
To #5 Absolut lie!!!!
R’ Yoel of Satmar never said anything like that. He did call Chabad Zionists, but never insulted Chabad as the closest thing to Judaism, this is absolute rubbish.
R’ Yoel actually told his Gabai after he met with the Rebbe (they met 3 times), that in our generation the Rebbe is probably the biggest Boki B’Shas. And when a Misnagdisher Godol wanted to comment on the conversation R’ Yoel had with the Rebbe, R’ Yoel told him to stay out of the conversation, its above his league.
Yes, he attacked the Rebbe’s Tefillin campaign and he caused his Chassidim to attack Chabad & the Rebbe, but the Rebbe commented on that (to Rabbi Chaim Gutnik in 1968)that in truth we are good friends, but that the Doson and Avirom’s mixed in to create a schism between us.
After all (in 1977) the Rebbe called the Satmar’s “Talmidei HaBesh”t“ in spite of the fact that R’ Yoel wrote (in 1959)that ”Nishtakcha Toras HaBesh“t” and that statement caused the Rebbe to cry in public, still the Rebbe held R’ Yoel in the highest regard.
newyorkbuff
dont invite lubavitchers n women not invited wow cant believe this who the hell do these rabbi think they r women r ppl just like us n lubavitch do such gr8 things n r closest ppl to god this is all one big joke
anonymous
R Malkiel Kotlers uncle in Lakewood is known as Gavriel Finkel the Moser whos nephew Moshe Finkel sold Shevach TrEIF CHICKEN In Monsey
awacs
“The freidiker rebbe called his father a roitzeach”
Source, #86?
Or is it just something that ‘everybody knows?’
aviva
I married a Chabadnik – I went to Neve. My rebbe said that you should never believe anything you read of what a rav said in the media unless you call and hear it straight from the source. You are guilty of loshon hora against a talmid chacham and that as we learned in Chofetz Chaim is equal to the three cardinal sins. You ave caused all of your readers to sin (well, whoever believes this crap, anyway).
my cousin who incidentally learns in Lakewood said there’s no way HaRav Kotler said that. It is horrifying that you would not give the benefit of the doubt to this rav but you would believe the words of a rechil. You guys need to do some serious tshuva.
Thinker
how come lubavitch knows how to be dan lekaf zechis every poshei yisroel and apikores but goes crazy when somebody says anything bad about them? maybe there is away to be dan lekaf zechus people who think that wierd ideas like beliving that a dead man from 2010 is still alive etc is not accepted in klal yisroel?
Zvi Shmuel
To all of smart comment writers. i want to explain something
We DO CARE what the Litvaks think
Not because we need recognition or Haskama
but for the simple reason that are Jews
if it wasn’t for their resentment we would probably have Beis Hamikdash by now.
They are obnoxious with their Hisnagdus to Kdusha but it’s tough life for us . We have to Mekarev them whether we like it or not
GEVORENNER
When i grew up i always heard Chabad is the closest cult to Judaism.
Well its true. Chabad is not only the closest but the only form of Judaism that is legitimate in my opinion.
I perfectly understand the Hisnagdus to Chabad but I also perfectly understand the Hisnagdus of 80% of the Jewish people (the “FRI” Jews) to “Charedim” . a fri Jew in Israel asks himself “is this the ultimate good? This Charedi Kobinator!?”
Coming from a Litvish background i thank Chabad for everything they brought to this world. i would not have Jewish children if this “cult” was not here
Shlomo423
Please………….. even a shul like Darchei Noam of Oceanside that is not SATMAR, or CHABAD treat people like crap if you don’t even have a medical decree… and your talking Long Eyeland.
ChB D Baal Teshuva42
Obviously my internet filters are not working properly because if they were I would not be seeing some of the offensive posts that have been posted on this discussion.
moise
mr. eliezer shach was denied a position in Chabad…
The reason of all his arson
kotler was a killer? could be.