Chabad Rabbis: Torchlighter Doesn’t Represent Lubavitch
A torch lighting ceremony in honor of Israel’s independence has ignited a heated argument among Anash in Eretz Hakodesh, since members of Anash (R’ Sh. R. and his young grandson M.) are among those chosen to light a torch. Rabbi R. has accepted and felt proud to represent Chabad and the Rebbe’s Shluchim at the ceremony; However, many Lubavitchers feel this very same ceremony is in direct opposition to the Rebbe’s stance on the 5th of Iyar and all the celebrations in conjunction with that day.
Various Rabbonei Chabad have come out with a statement that will be published in the morning papers, clarifying that the said Chossid is acting on his own as a private citizen, and doesn’t represent Lubavitch or the Rebbe’s Shluchim in any way.
Signed on the document are Rabbis: Menachem Mendel Glukowsky, Eliyahi Yochonon Gurarie, Ze’ev Dov Slonim, Yosef Hecht, Avrohom Michel Halperin and Mordechai Shmuel Ashkenazi, of Bais Din Rabbonei Chabad, and Rabbis Naftoli HaCohen Roth, Osher Lemel Cohen, Yosef Yitzchok Havlin and Dovid Meir Druckman.
Rabbi B
its a high honor.live and let live!!!!
you lubavithers are so strange.extremly religious in some areas and lax in others.
azkir al hatzion
azkir al hatzion
Bubby
Your article doesn’t explain what the Rebbe’s stance is. Please explain. Thank you.
Milhouse
Finally, someone has the courage to stand up for the Rebbe’s view. Shame on R Rosenberg for having accepted this honour in the first place, and double shame on him for taking it upon himself to claim that he’s representing the Rebbe and his shluchim.
awacs
You’re afraid to mention Shimmy Rosenberg, and little Moishy, who suffered so much in Bombay?
What’s the world coming to?
chabad
good! azoi darf zein1
R’R is a great guy, but this has definitely crossed the line, I’m glad the rabbonim are standing up
disappointed in ur reactions!
why is it wrong??!
if you were a shliach and they sang hatikvah would you be the only one to sit?
there are certain situations where they are not black and white such as shluchim doing programs at baseball games or concerts…
by lighting the torch the state of israel is giving ‘recognition’ to the shluchim in israel!
leave him and his family aalone! no one should ever have to endure what they have had to…how dare you all sit and judge him!
chaim ber
This is the problem, lubavitch and lubavitcher now are playing politics. Just like fund raising for japan, no jews there, or helping in haiti! What are we looking forward to? Lubavitch is own by the Rebbe, and we need to follow all the horaoyus, with the rabbonim! period end of story!
grow-up
Let’s not judge. I can name at LEAST 20 Chabad Houses in the US that celebrated Israel independence day.
I have seen first hand one pre-school that even teaches the history of the day.
This is 2011 & times have changed.
good point #1
gut gzukt
Sadly Not Surprised
Wow. Such the opposite of achdus. Opinion on 5 Iyar aside, this type of public is imho a greater chillul H’ than him lighting that torch.
Huh?!
Considering the recent Chabad representation at ShmullyBoteach’s fundraiser and the fact that today there are shluchim in Poland where the Rebbe clearly said there should not be, this slap against Israel’s celebration is unneccessary and the hight of hypocricy.
TO #7
There is a huge difference between making use of public events as an opportunity for mivtzoim and that of lending legitimacy to Zionism which the Rebbe is so outspokenly against, and especially if he claims to represent the Rebbe and his shluchim!
it is well known that in the early years of the Rebbe’s nesius that when the hatikvah was sung at the Lubavitcher Yeshiva dinner, the Rebbe immediately afterwards called in R’ Chodakov to his office and told him to get rid of all the stationery of the yeshiva and print new ones without the words “תחת נשיאות של כ”ק אדמו“ר שליט”א”( under the administration of the Rebbe).
How much more so is it a Chillul Hashem when a Lubavitcher (particularly such a high profile person,) participates so prominently in such an official Zionist ceremony, in the most public eye.
We will not throw him out of our circle because we embrace any Jew of any frame of mind, but we have to make it clear to the world that Chabad-Lubavitch doesn’t represent or recognize Zionism and this man doesn’t represent the Rebbe or his Shluchim.
mendelbaum
we are all proud that little moshe and his grandfather was chosen for such a honor.
shalom
#7
We do “live and let live”, but when he says that he represents me, i must now speak up.
nisht azoy darf zayn
RR can be commended for taking part in his own right, but unless he has been asked by the leadership of Chabad or the Shluchim to represent Chabad, he has no business doing so, and certainly not state that he is representing Chabad or the shluchim.
The exposure that Moshele is being put through at such a young age may also not be the best thing for him.
Am Yisroel Chai!!!!
Mordechai Yoel
The Rebbe was against the Medina big time & the Tzionim. 1st reason is the 3 oaths that it says in the Gemara Ksubos, not allowed 2 fight the nations of the world & take over & make a state 4 ourselves totally not allowed. 2) Zionisim is so anti Torah & everything. Lubavitch only holds of Shlimus haretz inthat we have 2 protect the yidden living there, not that we hold of the “State of Israle” that is the only reason the rebbe got involved in the army & everything else. But the very existence of the State the rebbe was against, didn’t scream out about it like the Satmar Rav however the Rebbe was against it, we don’t sing Hatikva or have the Israeli flag in any of the Lubavitcher Chabad Houses or Schools around the world. Just the thing is we don’t go like Satmar & Toldos Aron & protest against the state of Israel we do mivztiom & bring Torah 2 all over the world & that ppl should become frum eventually. Don’t know y the Rebbe didn’t scream against zionisim, maybe he felt that we have 2 deal with it, however even the Satmar Rav said can’t give it back 2 the Arabs bec they would kill all the yidden he said that “Israel should be an international country” this way even if yidden run it but we don’t have control over it. This way we can’t say that we took it against every1 & made our own state which is Asur as explained about the 3 Oaths that HKB”H made the Yidden sware b4 they went in2 Galus
Shlomo
Rabbi rosenbrg was actually doing Mivyzoim on his speech, listen to what he said it is on youtube and you will hear he was speaking about Ahavas Yisroel and other Keduhsa stuff.. he was Maalim ba Bakodesh..
stop the hypocrisy
APPLAUSE for comment # 12
tired
maybe rabbi rosenberg doesn’t represent the big rabbis,
but i’m honored for him to represent me.
he is an inspiration and a kiddush Hashem.
may no one ever be tested again in the way his family has been tested.
i’d say it’s better to be quiet if you don’t agree with him.
Nachman Sanowicz
To #18 Tov Shmoya Mezevach Tov. Better listen and be intune with what the Rebbe MH”M wants than all the things that you think you will conquer the world with. I think that Rabbi Rosenberg intentions were noble but simply miscalculated did not think it thru and did not have the courage or for some other reason could not say no afterwards. We are all human and we do mistakes may Hashem forgive him. I just want to note a similair thing but in my opinion less severe happened to another shliach and he was ostracized. Rabbi Zimroni Tzik also with noble intentions a few years ago made a farbrengen in a Bar (this is what I heared) to be mekarev Yidden to Avinu shebashomaim. Again we are all human lets not be so quick to Judge and lets not forget the good that these individuals did and do on a daily basis. Halevai the criticisers would do a fraction of what these individuals are doing.
Milhouse
#7, I don’t know whether a shliach in that situation should stand or sit, but if he dares to sing he must immediately resign as a shliach. I remember when R Sholom Wolpe was one of the leaders of the resistance to the Israeli withdrawal from the Sinai, and appearing on the podium at all the major demonstrations, and he publicly refused to sing hatikvah, and he was physically beaten up for it! but he was proud to take klep for the Rebbe.
#9, if you know of such Chabad Houses, please list them for shame, and demand that Merkos delist them.
#14, we are NOT all proud. If he were chosen for an honour in a church, maybe to carry the tzeilem in the procession, would you be proud too?! Zionism is kefirah, and we have NO RIGHT to compromise on that.
FYI
Just for the record, he was lighting the Yom Hazikaron Torch. Nothing to do with Yom Ha’atzmut. Yom Ha’atzmut is on Hey Iyar only when it falls out on Tueusday through Friday. Per the Rabanut in Israel, Yom Hazikaron cannot be on a Sunday, so its pushed until Monday, which makes Yom Ha’atzmut today. Notice CrownHeights.info, posted Hallel :)
H.R.
If the Rebbe was against the Medineh why did he embrace and hug Mr. Zalman Shazar President of the state of Israel? Why did he say that someone who is oleh ligduleh is mochlin lo kol avonosov. What gedulah could he possibly be referring to other than becoming President of Medinas Yisroel?Shazar was there in 770 with all his attaches and secretaries as was Premier Begin as well.This was done before the whole world. So now tell me about Lubavitch and the Medineh!
LARRY
THE GRANDFATHER HAS TO CLOSE THE DOOR AND LET THE KID LIVE ENOUGHT WITH THE SPOT LIGHT. WHATS NEXT HE WILL MAKE A MOVIE P.S THAT JUST MAY BE A GOOD IDEA
Think!!
maybe it is time to wake up and realize that Israel,regardless of how you feel about Zionism per se, is there so that Jewry all over the world has a bit of security and a place to call teir own. Who do u think they fight for???For all of us!shame on all of you for not seeing the bigger picture here.It is symbolic of something bigger than your own personal selves.Do u ever think of anyone outside your own political stand?Do u really want to include all Jews or is that just your blah blah?What he did was a symbolic gesture and it was very nice. Get a hold of yourselves!
Milhouse
#23, you think you’re very clever, but what can you do about the FACT that the Rebbe’s opinion of Tziyonus, and the opinion of the Frierdiker Rebbe and the Rebbe Nishmoso Eden, are no secret? Your questions are stupid, but even if they were good they couldn’t change the metzius that everybody knows. You have a chutzpah to pretend that the Rebbe approved of something that he openly considered kefirah!
#25, Did the Rebbe approve of the celebrations on 5 iyyar or not? You know very well that he disapproved. So what more is there to say? Ein lonu elo divrei ben Amrom!
NG, L.A.
Bottom line is, we shouldn’t be singing Hatikvah because it smacks against our belief that we are in ikvisa dimishicha, not ischalta d’geula.
Having said that, there is nothing wrong with serving in the IDF (actually it’s an honor for a Lubavitcher to do that, to protect Yiddin). Insofar as lighting the torth, I see no problem as an individual doing it -however, if official Lubavitch policy is not to celebrate, then he does not represent shluchim, or Lubavich, period.
SC
spot on 25!!!!! att ch’ers time to get out of your little box!!
Poor Moshe
Poor Moshe The exploitation of this poor child continues….. The child and Grandfather definitely need psychiatric help. This is not going to help his healing. Shimon Rosenberg is making a chilul hashem which started when Peres was asked to speak at the funeral. For all those who will say Peres is the President of Israel; it is the policies that he espouses that caused their murder!
Der Alter Bok
The Frierdiker Rebbe said, upon arrival to America: :“America iz nisht andersh.”
One logocal step from that is: “Hayntikeh tzeiten iz nisht anders.”
Principals the Rebbreim all had, they do not change.
Prikas oyl is still prikas oyl. Whether ir is the way we dress (men as well as women); our attitude to the kedusha of a shul; the subtle dismissal of tfilla betzibbur.
Chabad Double Standard
It is amazing to see that where the shlichim live in the any country, they seem to be the most patritic people of all. They sing songs about the country (i.e. Azerbejan), they proudly displaye the flag, etc. When it comes to Eretz HaKodesh, the land of the Jewish people, all of the sudden it is such a crime to recognize at least to some extent, and the reality that Israel is a Jewish state or a State for the Jews.
It is also interesting to note the Hayom Yom for the 5th of
mottel
I am confused. We hear constantly that Lubavitch does not act “Zionist” in case we distance some Jews who are not ready for that or we cause harm to shluchim in Arab countries.
Fine shoyn.
But now it is OK to come out AGAINST which is likely to antagonise just as many yidden that Chabad rabonim are making a shturem about this…?
The truth is the real reason is that we are anti-Zionist. So admit it already and stop hiding behind “ahavas yisroel”
marvin
#26 – sadly due to the government policies Israeli is NOT a safe secure place for yidden! And yes the Rebbe said einei h’ elokecha boh but the Rebbe also said to peopel who wanted to move to Chevron he cannot say it is a good idea because unfortunately the politicaisn may give it up…
Rosenbergs are No Bed of Roses
What is it with Rosenbergs?
OK, Alfred was not Jewish (unless he was a meshummed) but now Shimon takes his place with Shmarya, Noochem and Julius.
A Gross man
Another part of the problem here is that Rosenberg is related by marriage to R’ Itche-Dovid Grossman who is also in bed with the medine while pretending not to be.
All he had to do was say that he is lighting the torch as a private citizen, or in memory of terror victims, or anything else and all would have been well.
This is like having a pork barbecue to celebrate Lag beOimer.
Wondering
How and in what way is this critisim of Israel and hatred of Zioniziom – i.e. loving Eretz Yisrael as it is NOW – different from Satmar and their ilk..
Yehuda Reuven
2 comment #24. The fact that Shazar came with all his men still doesn’t mean the Rebbe Held of the Medina, we r anti Zionist, the only reason the Rebbe met with them is bec 4 the safty of Yidden & the love of Every Yid, however Zionisim itself & the Medina are Asur like it says in the 3 oaths the Yidden made B4 going in2 galus Bavel. In the Sefer Vyoel Moshe it explains the whole thing. Lubavitch doesn’t make protests against the state of Israel, we go & put on Tefillin with Yidden instead however those r the only reasons y the Rebbe got involved with the Medina, he was involved with it but didn’t hold from it but said we have 2 protect Yidden Even Satmar & Toldos Aron agree if we give it back that all the Yidden will be killed the only thing is, is 2 make it an international state & that the Arabs shouldn’t run it. This way we can’t say that we took the land by force which is Asur bec of the Shlosha Shvuos. The Satmar Rebbe didn’t make this up look in the Gemara, Just 2 let u know & they don’t teach this in the Lubavitch schools that both The Friediker Rebbe & Admor HaRashab were very anti zionist spoke against the Medina that they r Kofrim Apikursim, Minim & Reshoim, bec they don’t care about Torah & mitzvos they want 2 take the torah away. Lookk in israel the news media runs on shabbos & chagim the Kenesset runs on shabbos they use a microphone. Chilul Shabbos & Chagim not caring about the Torah, its not a Jewish state, its a place were jews live. Doing news reports on shabbos driving on Yom Tov mixed beaches. This is Torah !!! The difference bet R’ Yoel Admor M’Satmar & Admor M’Lubavitch is we go & bring Yidden back they scream about the Medina we don’t argue with them, they do that job & we hold the same we, we just busy ourselves with bringing yidden back. In Ger they r also anti zionist they use the Medina 2 get $$$ 4 their schools but they don’t hold of Zionism or the Medina, its there so they use it out. The only difference bet Satmar & Ger is is that the Satmar Rav didn’t even hold of that, nothing 2 do with the Medina.
Yakov Avraham
2 # 12 it comes out shver on u if the Rebbe said “no shluchim in Poland”, y r there & if they do call themselves Lubavitch Merkaz shouldn’t recognize them. Thats it. Getting back 2 Rabbi Rosenberg there r other ways 2 honor this man 4 what he went through, he doesn’t have 2 get involved with Kofrim & Apikursim & celebrate Kfira & pushing away of the Torah. We could make a big celebration a Farbrengen with all the big Rabbanim or something & do that, but 2 Celebrate a day which is based on getting yidden away from Torah. That is what the Zionist did, they shmaded ppl 2 get them 2 4get the Torah & Learning. Ben Gurion was a Rasha !! Choteh Umachteah Es HoRabim !!! Big Time
Nobody
#33, you are definitely confused. The Rebbe was very clear about his views on Zionism and those aren’t it.
Zionism was (such as it exists anymore) an explicitly anti-religious, opposed to keeping Torah and Mitzvos, and that idea is specifically included in HaTikvah (a people free of Torah and Mitzvos is what it means).
Calling such a movement the beginning of Geula calls dark light – it betrays our basic values.
If you disagree, don’t go saying that the Rebbe agrees with you.
Polish Jokes
The shluchim in Poland are there for the expatriate business community from EY and tourists who come back to see their roots. In fact the father and eldest brother of the head shaliach in Poland are from EY and are in the real estate business there.
is this site lubavitch?
with all these comments pro zionism, it seems no!
#20, you are obviously not lubavitch(thats the impression we get) people who arent lubavitch should post their views respectfully and not tell others to be quiet. If its a free world where rabbi Rosenberg can choose something against his chassiduses views, then we too have a right to express our dissapointment, especially if he takes us lubavitchers unwillingly into the picture.
Were not Chas V’shalom undermining any of his suffering. but someone who went through something horrible, doesnt mean they dont have anymore responsibility for their actions. We cant blaim him for it. But in our circles, thats wrong and we dont want to be schlepped into it. And were allowed to call it wrong.My advice to you,before you go seeking help from the rebbe, when your in trouble next time CH”V, by the Ohel, 1st learn his teachings or at least dont make fun of those who took time to learn.