267 Comments

• a papa bear

  Note chinfo treid to contact the above mentioned before publisizing article

  Verses the ppl with the sigs to come with the sigs to store owners properly.

  I support a point made my a big ego u urself and urself who said put those signitures into the schools and teach.

  Bottom line the store owners sell what sells

  Teach our kids about tznius and they won’t grow up buying the papers sold in post mark it.

  I’m sure the racksins will be happy to carry more hebrew jewish yiddish papers due to no one wanting the ones with the latest on celebreties

• quick take a pic i lifted my finger

  I agree with the petition. Know why!

  Bc of the papers known as people in touch and the like it has given the ideas of nosing into personal lives and takeing pictures of every guy lifting his finger and publishing it online on sites like chinfo. And others who but into my wedding begging for photos of me.

  When we get of these papers maybe we can get rid of all the local sites photographers and long bosed ppl

  Ch has become a media hungry comunity spreading mickva into the streets stores and even classrooms

  What ever happaned mind ur own buissness

• Me

  The Taliban is on the rise again; they’ve made it all the way to Brooklyn, NY.

• Levi

  What don’t you people learn the laws of Hilchos Bein Adam Lachaveiro before you start all this rubbish.
  How about hilchos Tefilah…
  Hilchos Talmud Torah…

• ridiculous

  oh come on- its not williamsburg.

• Lighten up

  if ya don’t wanna see it you wont see it.

• graffitti on a billboards>

  welcome to meah shearim!

• it-s the law

  Its not easy being a Jew, nobody ever said it was.

  The law (Shulchan Aruch) is the law!
  How it should be carried out is a different question.
  There has to be some personal responsibility.

• Dvorah

  Lack of tznius is a big concern for all of us. But these tactics are going to backfire. Where there is a lack of ahavas Israel and fairness in attitude, no good can come of it. Strong-arming is definitely not the way! Let’s think of a better, more ahava-Torah-dike way to get our point across. We can start by consulting our Rabbonim, and mechanchot etc. May Hashem help us all to achieve our aims in a manner worthy of our heritage as Chassidim.

• ad mussi

  leave the satmar stik away from lubavitch. this is not the rebby shita to collect sign. about any issue .surly not about tzeneus. leave this hanhoga for satmar eida acreidus brisk etc.get invoved in bringing in a gesmak to a inyon of the rebby.

• Simcha

  wow the “ringleaders” of the tznius patrol are all heavy BT’s

  what does that mean?

• Disgusted

  What a horrible thing to be happening in Crown Heights! This is not the way to enforce tznius rules. Just think that by joining this movement you are harming the livelihood of another Jew. There are other ways to combat this problem.

• zalman

  the only way to have people listen and understand is to do things the RIGHT way.

  if you want apple drugs to tell their employees to dress modestly then go meet with the owner privately. Don’t start making announcements in public about their standards!

• me myself and i

  what can i say i am on both sides

  i understand and support the store owners 100 persent
  but i dont want to have people see things that they shouldnt

  i think that a great way to utilize the koach of 500 signitures is to bring that to all schools and use those signitures as leverage to have them teach more about tznius.

  thus creating awarness to children who in turn may bring it home.

  the type of radical approch that they are using will result in chaos fighting and in the end “another lawsuite” either being one against the group for hurting their buissnesses or worse…
  Dont you think we have enough lawsuites?

  in closing i think that these guys should be very carfull, theres a reason why we are not williamsburg, and we will never be williamsburg.

• oy vey

  its funny how the web has become a place for talk verses action for our rabonim

  a comuinity with a respectibla bes din would be able to take care of marrige issues and tznieus ones

  nowday this came to artciles on chinfo due to lack of rabonim or evcen a voice mail to get returned

• TimeToTakeHeadsOutOfSand

  Yes, they should have gone directly to Gutleizer; better still, Gutleizer should have noticed and acted on his own, duh!

• My opinion

  My opinion is that this is NOT the Lubavitch way – but Mr. Raksin should just make sure that any Goyisha magazines should not be sold to our kids. (I think he does this anyway)

• Mendel

  It’s about time!!!

  We were for too long on the opposite extreme, so yes we need the other extreme to balance things out….

  (I promise that the above store owners are only saying that after the fact)

  And please don’t call this Taliban, have you seen the Tznius patrol in other communities?

  It’s high time we take our community back!!!

• sick to the stomache

  Wow! Looking at these comments, I see why they compare us to Modern Orthodox or worse. It is one thing not to do everything 100% right. It is altogether another to pretend that it is right and those who think otherwise are fanatical.
  When I saw the recent deterioration of tznius in CH, I chalked it up to the yetzer hora.
  From theses comments it appears that a new twisted philosophy prevails. They make me truly embarrassed to be a Lubavitcher!

• Anonymous

  Look at these comments and tell me that you wonder why we are losing our best people!

• tznius

  maybe that isn’t the right way to do it but crown heights does need more tznius.

• anonomous

  this is very true…post mark it sells very not modest things from jewelery to magazines…when it was previosly owned it was a pleasure…we miss dowar!!! we cant even look thru the windows anymore…it is a shame you cant see that you are selling garbage from the street…you are not on the level-so strive to be…dont try to be like the outside world1 I HOPE YOU HAVE READ THIS WELL!

• chaim

  we must all u night against these sick individuals who never grew up in crown heights there’s a way you do things not by warning people and telling them what to do and here we see the reason why people are dying because of people like these
  this is in unfortunate salutation

• Genuine Teshuvah

  wasn’t’ there just a night dedicated to Ahavas Yisroel.. Maybe this select group should be the leaders to start teaching us what it means and at whose expense… Everyone should look into their own business and be honest to themselves and work on their weakness. What this community needs is Genuine Achdus… Lets start there.. everything will fall into place… What do we teach our innocent children what does the Tanya say about Ahavas Yisroel and keeping the Torah.. Let’s start living it NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

• Kol Hakovod!

  Those that commented probably lack in Tznius because if the importance of Tznius meant anything to them, they would also shturm the streets to change the situation of today’s Crown Heights.
  Everyone likes to bring the Rebbe in. The Rebbe also shturmed in public about Tznius.
  It’s about time that someone has the guts to go around and try to change the people.

• chayim

  what a stupit camment that its not meah sharim
  or its not the lubavitch way

  lubavitch is not yong israel
  lubavitch has high standers

  its only that we bring it out in a nich way
  but no compemises g-d forbit

  i strongly sport the yungeleit that are doing this

• A.B.

  As someone who signed the above mentioned petition, i say that i am very proud of what i did, and do not regret it. If this petition makes one store change its policy’s (which it did) it makes it all worth it.
  With all due respect to crownheights.info the way this article was written, it would have been more fitting to be published in the Yediot Achoronot, than a supposedly Lubavitch website.
  There is something that people make a mistake, making petition and doing anything in one power to enforce Tznius, is not something someone thought of in the Kolel, or even in Williamsburg, but rather taken straight out of the Gemara; An Amora was walking along the street, adn saw a woman dressed in red (a color considered not Tzniusdik), this Amora went a ripped the clothes off her (something to that extent). The Rebbe (everyone here quoting the Rebbe, so i will also) quoted this Gemara, and said :the Troah is teaching is us something very important, namely, when there is a breach in Tznius, was must act brazenly and with all means at your disposal to stop it.
  Being Lubavitch or Chassidish is not instead of being Frum (i.e. keeping Shulchan Oruch with all its details meticulously), rather it goes on top of being frum.

• “Ahavas Yisroel” & tolerance.

  “Taking Mendelson aside, Gutleizer asked why he had not been approached personally, because he was willing to make changes when the matter was brought to his attention.”

  So that is why nothing was done for the last twenty years, until all-of-a-sudden, he faces a boycott!

  “But it is a radical, negative approach, completely opposite that of the Rebbe’s positive approach.”

  EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM in our Shchunah has been borne out of our “Ahavas Yisroel” and tolerance do certain elements and situations, until the point that everyone regrets it. As Chassidus teaches, how an Avraham could produce a Yishmael, and Dovid Hamelech could produce Avshalom – out of “Ahavas Yisroel” and tolerance.

  Infractions against Halacha SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED – and if you want to quote the Rebbe, well, the Rebbe never tolerated violations of Halacha.
  Infractions against Halacha SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED – they must be addressed. It is true that the methods used should be in the least damaging way as possible – but it needs to be done effectively.

  BTW I think that it is not fair that we are picking only on the ladies again – what message are they being given when our own men parade around the streets, without hats and jackets, in T-Shirts and Jeans. Do you know of anyone who had the nerve to stand in the presence of the Rebbe, dressed that way! Or, who would feel comfortable writing a Duch to the Rebbe telling him that this is the way he dresses?

• izzy

  it is horrible to have a nude sign in front of 770 – keep spraying it! break it down!
  its a shame to the Rebbe!!!

• Anon

  I agree wholeheartedly that education starts at home and while I am not sure that energy is entirely misplaced with the current Tznius Campaign, I think we must all be mindful our own actions and behavior before we place any judgment on or seek to change the actions of others.

• WAKE UP PARENTS!!!

  you cant go forcing things on people and what it says in the article is 1000% right tznius starts at home!!

• awacs

  “It is altogether another to pretend that it is right and those who think otherwise are fanatical. ”

  Well, the Rebbe *did* say that we should approach such issues “b’darchai noam v’darchai shalom …”

• Kingston shopper

  I agree with Mendel!
  Even if these young men are a bit misguided in their approach, let us give them an “A” for effort. Those who complain about the tznius issues should be willing to help these young men out. There should be more people willing to stick their necks out for restoring tznius to the Lubavitch community. Everyone should get on the bandwagon and strengthen tznius.
  I don’t know if the stores are to blame but if they lead the way and declare that they are joining the cause of tznius, others will follow suit. Let it become popular to dress and act with tznius.

• Crown Heights Mom

  The way I see it, these 3 yungerleit do not mean to hurt anyone, but they are naive and not approaching the tznius problem in the right fashion. A movie night in Crown Heights! That is completely against our upbringing, and I agree with them on this point. Tznius with clothing – this is something that is completely out of hand in the community. It has nothing to do with salesgirls or store owners. As Mr. Raksin said, chinuch begins at home! If the parents do not do anything about it, there is only ‘so much’ that the storekeepers can do. About the magazines being sold on Kingston Ave. – I will admit I buy certain magazines in Post Mark It, and have NEVER seen a magazine that can be harmful to anyone. I think in the Maariv and Yediot there is more shmutz than in these english magazines. A picture of a woman on the cover does not make a magazine ossur. Cut out the crap! As someone commented – you only see what you want. I only want to say one more thing – whoever is bashing Williamsburg for their way of life is not right. There is no reason to compare us to them – we have different shitas, and look at things differently.

• a kolel yunger man

  its a bunch of board kolel bee tees!
  why are they not learning or finding a job!

  i know this first hand its a busha vcherpa

• shlomo halevi

  i think people in our community should differentiate between an employee in a store not dressing modestly and a store owner having an eve of theater here in our frum neighborhood, ive always said orthodoxy is not democracy its a dictatorship so for a store owner(s) to do something like that here shows major disrespect for are way of life, as opposed to some random employee that dresses in a way that may be lacking where her or his boss has not made a statement taking on the establishment.
  we all have free will but a store owner that will go against our way of life should not expect support from our community

• preventive vs. reactive

  Ok, now i am fuming from these comments. yes you are right that we need to educate the students of CH. i know that BCM has a tznius curriculum, i think BM also has one and i am not sure about BR. however, it will take some time for these students who are learning the halachos and hashkafos to show an example to the rest of CH. until then it is the ADULTS who need to be an example.

  how are young girls supposed to think and rationalize when they learn the halachos and then go into Apple Drugs and see single boys and girls flirting with each other. they innocently go into Post mark it- and boom they are exposed to a beautiful scene full of magazines. then they hear about non-chassidish events going on in CH…. WHAT IN HEAVENS NAME ARE THEY SUPPOSE TO THINK?

  “We are sensitive to anything that others would consider inappropriate,” Raksin asserted. well, obviously this is a very sensitive issue, respect that and get rid of the shmutz in your store. women who are chalishing for magazines should subscribe to them (I think they are cheaper that way, anyways).

  as it is, our world is so full of shmutz, why do we need to add fuel to the fire. why cant we PREVENTIVE instead REACTIVE. let’s do what we can to prevent more children from being tempted to try non-kosher things instead of complaining later that “our” kids are off the derech.
  At least in Williamsburg, the parents are not blaming themselves for exposing their kids to non-kosher stuff.

• basi lgani chapt. 20

  yo holy kollel guys … you may just have to do what the REST of the world does to protect their kids. i live in a far away community and i know i have to work harder on MYSELF and MY KIDS and MY 4 AMOS to make sure that it all stays holy.

  you should do the same leave the shop keepers out of this.

  put all the energy and attention on your own pnimius yor own house your own relationship with your kids make it strong and then nothing can touch you ….. use all of the hidden treasures you should have stored up sitting in kollel all day … go out YOURSELF to do battle dont use forms and signatures and petitions ….. and like the maamer says you will have victory …. but its a victory on yourself not on others.

  what happens when you leave kollel on shlichus to some far out place … you gonna go into shprte there and tell them to stop selling magazines?? use your time and energy now the rebbes shchuna to store up treasures that you will surely need to keep your kids away from harm when you are out on shlichus

  its unfair to expect shop keepers to keep to your kollel standards if your self cant uphold emes’er kollel standards

• SHALOM

  YOU ARE RIGHT

  and

  YOUR ARE RIGHT.

  NOW CAN WE HAVE PEACE??

• Frumie

  I frequent Post Markit on a continual basis. The owners have nothing but the highest standards in tznuis and service the community in a way that is held to the highest of standards. Post Markit actually spares the average Crown Heights resident from having to seek services out of the community. They serve a vital role in providing postal services as well as reading material that is available ONLY for those who want them.
  If a person doesn’t like what they have to offer they have no choice but to go the the nearest bodega…..imagine sending young kinderlach to pick up a newspaper having to sift thru inappropriate material. Shame on the people who call themselves ‘frum’. Lubavitch is NOT the new Taliban.

• Penina Raksin - Post Mark-It

  “My Opinion” you are correct – we absolutely DO NOT sell any secular papers or magazines to children. As a matter of fact, when the boys come in after a big sports game to see the scores the next morning we do not even allow them near the papers.

  If you’d like to share your opinions with us in person please come in for a shmooze and enjoy a hot cup of coffee on the house. Offer valid Sunday, Jan 24th, 11am – 4pm. Let us show you Ahavas Yisroel done right.

• shaina maidel

  Do we get pre-screened in order to make a comment? Ah censorship…..I get it I hope these people are not running this website.

• CONCERNED

  IF YOUR WIVES AND DAUGHTER’S DRESS IN ACCORDANCE WITH HALACHA, WE WOULD NOT HAVE THE PROBLEMS IN THE SHCUNA THAT WE HAVE. THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO DRESS IMPROPERLY.

• i support

  Even though these are not the messueres i would take I see nothing worng with asking Jewish stor ouners to remove any non-tznius matirial. We thank G-d have atablished a Frum neigboorhood and lets keep it that way. If you do not like the standeres of the neigboorhood then move elsewhere. My beiliefe is that eventhough Chabad pridens itself with being allenclusive we need to set some strong limints not to the outside but insde aswell. No these things are not the start of the Tznius problem but they create a atmosfire which does affect us in an even suddle way.

• crown heights toshav

  The only thing I would like to say is that in other Chassidishe neighborhoods you don’t have the tznius problem with the way the women dress. These women who worry about their clothes, and their childrens clothes, and that their floors and windows have to be shining, and their wallpaper and chandeliers, and all the other gashmius’dike things they worry about, don’t know a thing about ruchnius. After saying all that, I would like to add that our women and girls, who are not dressed as tzniusdik as they should, have learned a lot more in chassidus, etc. I am not condoning the way they dress – because it is completely against Shulchan Oruch – but give them credit for the good they do. And hopefully they will wake up one day and see that the way they are dressing is not the way a ‘Bas Melech’ should be dressed. But in the meantime, let’s reach out to them with good and not push them away with both hands.

• BCH

  How incredibly offensive! Who appointed these people?

  Do we need these tzugekumene interlocutors to act as our tznius Police? Just think of the chutzpo! Three little kolel pishers – who should be busy learning – have instead decided they are going to take on the role of our shotrim! That is while we still have a Beis Din, made up of older, more experienced people (please no comments on this) who can, if they want, decide to instruct the store owners on the matter. Besides, they surely would have already done so, had it been warranted.

  Also, it is important to note that the issue at hand is not tznius per se, but the method these self-appointed kannoim employed – one of intimidation, harassment and motzi shem ra. The effected store owners would do well call these people to a Din Torah and demand payment for damages to their reputation. Let these taddikim make their accusations in front of a Beis Din!

• Elki

  Who appointed these “immodest” kanaim to be the tznius police? As someone in girls’ chinuch all my life, all I see are chalilah more kids dropping out of the system. What happened to the Chassidishe (and psychologically approved) method of correcting a wrong? What would the Rebbe have said, how about Der Berdichiver?
  The men who are monitoring the tightness of girls’ shirts have the yetzer hara dwelling in their eyes. Luz Uhp!! Before this gets out of control, as past harmful issues have, please whoever has the ability and will, stop this now! You can’t say We want Moshiach now and walk around Kingston Avenue with binoculars and an axe.

• tuck your shirts in and comb your hair

  I am gathering a petition to have all the guys in crown heights tuck their shirts in, comb their hair and generally make me less nautious…

  It must be against the torah to dress like a slob! This tznius campaign is all one sided.

• Born and Bread in CH

  Tznius Education starts at home and continues in school. If our schools allow mothers and fathers to drop off/ pick up their children not dressed properly – what kind of message is that sending our kids? Don’t pick on store employees – look at yourself first. When did mid thigh skirts become acceptable? When did trim beards become ok?when did wearing no stocking to a wedding become approriate? When will our schools (the few that don’t) get tougher on the parents? Sometimes I feel like I live on Shlichus in CH!

• Anonymous

  I think if our girls knew why they should dress tznius they would dress as tznius as they can. The attempt is a plus. We need to tell our daughters why and how and maybe they will

• CH Resident

  It’s amazing how judgemental and close minded people here are.
  Open your eyes. It all starts at home. Stop worrying about what others are doing and focus on your children. They are the next generation.

• Rivka

  How about if the Crown Heights dress shops for women, girls, and even children! STOP SELLING NON-TSNIUSDIK OUTFITS.
  Many years ago I remember one of the women’s storekeepers being asked why she sells short skirts – her answer “Because if they want them, they will buy them. So why shouldn’t I make the money”

• disgusted with the guys

  to tuck your shirts……..
  how about the tight pants?

• watch out, this is only the beginning...

  I agree that store owners in CH should require their workers to dress appropriately for this neighborhood, but it’s all together different thing not to service those that do not do as we do!
  Besides, I think that if these young kolelleit would have their heads in their seforim instead of giving in to their taavos of looking at every women walking down the street, some of their problems would go away.
  I can’t stand when people think that they are greater than thou and pick one issue to harp on – you’re telling me that these people are 100% in accordance of halacha in all issues and therefore see it necessary to ‘deal’ with others as they see fit?

• Yossi

  To Freidel Levin

  What in the world you mean mean “we are open minded”??? Is she so open minded that her brains have fallen out??? Does “accepting of everyone” mean that you stoop down to their immoralities? Would you do a mixed dance night for the community if your non-religious clientele wanted it?

  What does the word “chasidim” mean? Watching movies? Dressing or talking in a non tznius way? While I am far from perfect, I don’t justify it.

  To “Simcha”: Whil I am not a BT, I used to teach in CH and many of the gezhe davka were the ones with the tv’s in their house. Ashrey chelkom to those that can restore normalcy in CH.

• normalicy

  all of u guys are so worreid about tznisus go take a hike u dont like it dont look this is america not afghanstan or iran people have the right to dress the way they want as for buissnes why should u care how the employees dress u dont like it dont dress like them but dont go forcing ur taliban ruels on people who came to america to be free not to persicuted for the way they dress i say all of these people who strted this stupid pettition should go back to where ever they came from yes they have the right to express their veiws but it doesnt make it right,the ruels for a buissnes is that the employee should be respectfull to the custermer help him/her in any way they can but they way they dress is just none of ur buisness,crown heights has lots of more importent things to worry about then some stupid people who think that they are in iran or meah sharim next thing u know their will be a pettion saying that any woman who doesnt have their face coverd should be stoned or flogged cmon i hope people r not acctualy taking this pettion seariously b/c if they do then they have a big problom regarding democercy and that they should move to one of the taliban countries where im sure they will be glad to exept them that is untill they start talking on their cell phones witch should be considerd tomah according to them in the end of the day worry about ur education systim not petty things like this b/c this is pathetic and im sure mr.mendelsons kids will be truely gratefull when they grow up and ask him:father why cant we read or speak english even though we were born in america and he shall answer b/c its the devils languge and its full of shtusim and that is te reason why you cant get a job. i say mr.mendelson worry about ur own family once u have succeded in raising ur kids to be normal sucsesfull people who can sit down have a proper conversation and be able to get himself a decent job then u can start worrying about such petty things untill then BUG OFF!!!!!!!

• Annon

  After reading this artical it ss no wonder why so many kids runaway from the Crown Heightes mantality etc.

• AMAZING

  “We must be the change we wish to see in the world.” – Mahatma Gandhi

• Local Rebbi

  1. How ironic that the comments criticising the Colel yungeleit claim that it’s NOT Ahavas Yisroel. Have you paid attention how they call these Yungeleit “BT”s?!?! Good demonstration of true Ahavas Yisroel.
  2. Crownheights.info should not allow comments that target individuals.
  3. It’s true that the home is important. but in the darkness we are in, one from a good home may get influenced. (This may explain why siblings can be different in their level of Chassidishkeit).

• Pnina Aaronson

  Seven or eight years ago, there was a movie advert on a bus-stop near Kingston Pizza. Needless to say, it was over-the-top. Once, while walking with a companion, I confessed that I was “secretly thrilled that someone had ”vandalized“ the sign.” An anonymous Pinchos had bravely slayed (sprayed?) the evil in our midst. My friend turned to me and said, “That was me.” She recounted her adventure, as I listened with awe. I’ll forever cherish that conversation. May her beautiful family continue to grow and flourish in her zechus.

• any alternative?

  Yes, this may not be lubavitch way, but then again, maybe someone older would enlighten us was tznius an issue 20 years ago? You may say, well, shluchim don’t have “community” of crown heights scale and are doing fine, but then again they know it’s not “us” it’s the “velt”. Should one apply same approach here in CH? It’s not “us”? You are not going to get far with this attitude.. This IS us. So the question remains..

• esther

  crown heights toshav,do you really need to drag other chasidim down because their extremely tzneeus women don’t learn chassidus? which is more important?
  bch and the others,do you really need to insult these young men (oy their bt’s)in order to feel better about crown height’s terrible situation re tzneeus? i don’t live in ch,but in LA where many lubavitchers have the same problem.you probably don’t understand what a tremendous stain on the rebbe and the rest of us this has caused.there is a thin line between tolerance and enabling and we have crossed that line.i don’t know what the solution is but all the feelgood stuff is not working.

• WHATS WRONG

  This may not be the lubavicher way. However, selling, acting and the tznius in the stores are also not the Lubavicher way. BUT NO ONE SAYS ANYTHING. WHERE HAVE WE GONE WRONG.

• Trust your kids, you won-t regret it.

  Ok, first of all, to ‘preventive vs. reactive’,
  So, you’re scared to send your children out because of the “horrible” things that lurk out there? Well, with all the mugging and stalking going on around CH, if you’re sending your child out, I’m sure that by now he or she knows right from wrong. Continue that close relationship you have with your kids and you’ll be surprised to see that they know good and well how to adhere to the family standards. Trust them to make you proud. Don’t make them feel that they can’t be trusted.
  Second, with everyone else quoting things, I’d like to point out that “When you see a fault in others, it’s really just a reflection of a fault of your own”

• Think with your brain

  The petitions are a waste of time. Let me teach you something about economics. If enough people stop shopping in any specific store for whatever reason, the owner will realize and do what is necessary to get back their business. You don’t need a petition. If not enough people care to affect business, than you can have all the signatures in the world, the owner knows if it is hurting his business or not, and being that it is not, there is no reason for him to change anything.

• I love shopping on Kingston

  Post Mark It – please keep on selling magazines. You are doing nothing wrong. I am not interested in walking into a goyishe store, and having to sift through all their pure shmutz magazines to find my clean ones. I am sure all the other Lubavitcher ladies who buy their weekly and monthly magazines from you will say the same thing.
  Better to read a Time magazine, than all the loshon hora you guys read in some of the ‘frum’ hebrew magazines and newspapers that you buy!

• A CHer

  Maybe a little on the “agressive” side, but, YASHER KOACH to these individuals who took the initiative on a very serious issue!
  By the way, TORAH & HALACHA is NOT a political issue – nor is it “optional” for a yid to decide not to keep obligtory mitzvos of the torah.
  This in itself – is a dangerous mindset that a yid chooses not to keep – for example, cholov yisroel & pas yisroel, and by todays’ standards – it becomes a “political” choice?!
  A woman “chooses” to wear un-tzniusdik clothing – and you are calling this “political”?!?
  YIDDISHKEIT IS NOT POLITICS!! TORAH IS NOT POLITICS!!!
  MITZVOS IS NOT POLITICS!!!
  INSTEAD OF MAKING THESE “HISORERUS” MEETINGS AND SPEECHES, DO SOMETHING TO “FIX” THE “BROKEN” COMMUNITY!
  DOING INSTEAD OF TALKING ALWAYS WORKS!

• meyer

  this is america if you have an issue with a stores practices you can boycott it. they went to a group of people who were like minded and got a petition signed like any other normal american. if you do not like it leave crown heights. nobody walked around with an ax or binoculars. nobody used violence they made the general community aware of the issues. i for one will not shop in postmark-it or apple drugs until the situation is corrected. if those shops feel their business was not affected they wont change if it does then the community as a whole has spoken. also so far i have not heard of them approaching individuals about their way of dress. i would hope that if they do it will be the women and not a man.

• improv everywere!!!!!!!!!!

  HERE WE GO AGAIN:
  NO I DID NOT READ ALL THE COMMENTS HERE,
  DONT WANT TO BE REPETICOUS.

  BUT WE DID TRY TO BE POSITIVE ABOUT THE TZNIUS ISSUE;
  lectures, talks, classes for men and woman etc.
  education, small kids and big kids, posters etc.
  leaders, role models, mothers. etc.
  WE TRIED. PEOPLE JUST DONT CARE
  PEOPLE DONT CARE HOW THEY LOOK.
  YOUR NON TZNIUS IS A BIG PROBLEM.

  CHANGE,OR DONT COMPLAIN

  maybe we do need to be a ‘MEAH SHEARIM, EXTREMIST’ IS SOME WAY , THEN THE MESSAGE WILL BE OUT,
  MOSHIACH WILL COME!!!!!!!!

• Grossed Out

  Something has to be done about the tznius of young guys in CH as well. I have seen many kvutza age bochurim walking around town in pants that are so tight that they might as well be leggings! Or with their shirts unbuttoned halfway showing their chests! It is really inappropriate and just as bad as girls dressing un-tznius. Who is in charge of these bochurim and allowing them to come to yeshiva dressed like this?

• Kudos!

  Sorry, but I agree with this, if the Rabbonim of this neighborhood have no back bone and are letting people get away with this Chilul Hashem, then I’m glad that someone has stepped forward and is trying to do something

• ridiculous

  I think this whole thing is ridiculous. Instead of investing so much time and energy trying to take parnassa away from others maybe get a job. Accept reality- nothings changing.

• Sarah

  As an out of towner, I question how a kolel yungerman has the time to stand on a street corner and have people sign a petition, instead of being in the kollel and studying. Also, today Parnassa is not easy to come by, and for these kollel yungeleit, who do not worry about parnosso, should defame and slander the owners of these stores, is a shame. I am sure that each store has its share of customers who try to help the shchuna and here we read of trying to sabotage the hard working store people. Kshot Atzmecha VeAchar Kach Kshot Acheirim.

• fustrated and burnt out from this

  Its now three or four years , Koller yungerleit are policing 770 , I want to see letter from Rabbi Heller Rosh Kollel why these guys are still in Kollel “4 years” , bored unqualified failures ” , where is rabbi heller approval of their taliban behaviour , more barracades on Kingston cor Eastern parkway , more blue tarps on the plaza . Afganistan again, stop this hate and jelousy, stop watching other women

  to Kollel yungerleit ; focus on your wife first , bored souls ,get a job. –Mendenson go back to Israel —

• ceo

  there has been alot said here. Most people seem to feel challenged about this. Some people because of their businesses, and some because of their yidishkeit. Whatever it is, the challenge has made alot of people think about what they really want down deep. I also feel its not the Chabad way, but since it was done already, I feel that its caused some introspection.
  People are really uncomfortable with creating a “new shulchan aruch” chas ve shalom. So this comes as a conscience to us all.

• finally!

  about time someone is doing someone is doing something about the rebbes shcuna becoming park slope

• hot air talkers

  i raise my children in a tznius way, but i’m not gonna be dishonest (to myself) and say that when my almost bar mitzvah son walks into a store and sees a half naked women he’s gonna say “now, now, just b/c we’re in the 20th centurey doesn’t mean i have to look etc”. I don’t want to show him the cake and tell him not to eat it. This is not williamsburg and it never will be. People who are against this, have the tznis issue with themselves and don’t want to feel guilty about it. I live over seas but i too will only patron those shops that abide by G-D’s laws.

• ch member

  this is the stupidest thing i ever heard of. 3 b.t. who have become frum yesterday decide to change lubavitch. Yes, we have tzius problems. so go firstly look at your own wives. and your own children and your family and sisters and sister-in-laws. also look at some of the men dress and act. what do you want from kids if the parents dress a certain way?
  to have a movie night or staff dress not appropriately is wrong. So if you really mean le’shma do it like an adult, like a mentch and approach them individually and say something b’darech hasmiskabel. just look how your aggressive way and loud noise to get attention to yourself back fired and people and kids will start looking at you and your family. people in glass houses etc.
  why are you trying to be sensational? you know you don’t mean the tznius issue, you just want to get your names out there.
  think of a better way. AND PLEASE DO NOT TRY TO REPRESENT LUBAVITCH BECAUSE YOU CAN NOT DO IT

• .....................

  We are on Shlichus in the most Untzniusdike country in the world. My children never ever walked out of the house without socks, with tight clothes, with skirts above the knees, with leggings, with lowcut necklines etc. the boys without hats and jackets. Chinuch starts at home. But,to see the blatant disregard to the laws of tznius right here in the Rebbe`s shchunah gives me such agmas nefesh and heart failure that it kills. And by the way, all you you untzniusdike girls and especially married young ladies that are provoking the guys and causing untold havoc and damage, I sure hope you are all proud of yourselves.

• CHINUCH STARTS AT 3 BUT DOESNT END THERE

  Your child was 3 or maybe 4
  you wrapped him up to bring him up to bring him to cheder,
  you didnt want him to see any non-kosher animals or goyim.

  Now your child is 13 he runs to go to minyan,
  he cant be wrapped in a talis but did ur principals change?
  should he be looking at pictures that are so provocative.

  Think about the msg of the child wrapped in Talis and although it wont be like that forever, these are the zeesa Yinglach.

• rochie

  This is such a one sided article.

  CH has a major Tznius issue.
  If you want to bury your head in the ground, go for it.

• Yossi

  To the closed minded Kolel BT’s:

  Mind your own freakin business!!! If it bothers you, you can move. Please don’t tell us how to live our lives! If you want to live like hermits cut off from the world, that’s your problem -please don’t make it ours!

  This is America, not Meia Shearim!

  What’s next? You’ll be throwing rocks at girls who don’t walk around covered head to toe with a little slit for the eyes? Will you burn down stores like they do in Meiah Shiarim?

• sb

  Reading through these comments, I’ve come to conclusion that the problem isn’t lack of tznius, but rather, an inability to use the english language (my five-year-old can write & spell much better than many of the “writers” here). This widespread linguistic ignorance in CH as a symptom of a more pervasive ignorance, of people being out of touch with their surroundings, and with reality in general.

• tznuis and concerned

  Go Sholom!! I would like to add my name to your petition!
  There are unfortunately too many times throughout the day when I want to bury my head in the sand! Married Ladies without shaitels?!?!? Women barely wearing skirts!! Clean shaven Men??? need I go on?!?!?No wonder kids are dropping like flies…
  Schools teach one thing..mommy does the other…and tatty too!!

  Thank you for trying to win back a Crown Heights that would make the Rebbe proud!!!

• ad mosai

  kol hakovoid keep up the amazing work despite all these negetave comments i’m sure you are giving the Rebbe much nachas
  don’t be nispael for mthis ruach shtus
  they are mamesh confusing light and darkness!!!
  ad mosai!!

• scared in ny

  lubavitch is supposed to be more open
  theres a lot of people living here who are BT. people who were brought to torah by chabad. and people who are in various stages of becoming frum. this is not a way to treat them its just gonna scare them off. including me.

• A CONCERNED MESIVTA STUDENT

  I BELEIVE THAT THERE IS A MAJOR TZNIUS PROBLEM IN C.H BUT THE WAY TO DEAL WITH IT IS NOT TO ATTACK THE LOCAL BUISNESES. MAYBE THE SCHOOLS SHOULD INSTITUTE MANDATORY OUT OF SCHOOL DRESS CODE.

• Esquire, Montreal

  bh

  I agree with Mr. Raksin’s observation. While the quest for tzinus is justified and long overdue, the manners in which it is sought and applied are counter-productive. As a consequence to such well-meaning but misdirected vigilanteeism, more harm than good will result. Ultimately, no one will be convinced by cajoling and bulling. On the contrary, such inappropriate behaviour will just turn people off or against one another. Our generation may be misguided but rough-handed tactics will not give us the insight and sensitivity to Torah thinking we desperately need. Perhaps, with gentle guidance good can be accomplished. B’darkay noam Ub’darkay shalom is always the best way.

• .................

  Ashreinu matov chelkeinu: Shluchims children know that they are different then the other children, teenagers, and adults that come to their Beit Chabad. They are proud to dress tzniusdik. They are proud of who they are and what they are responsible to represent and teach. My children grew up seeing kol davar assur, but they knew it had nothing to do with them. It`s goyishe, alien stuff, nothing to do with their reality. Here in Crown Heights unfortunatly, the kids think that this is the life. All the garbage and shtus seems so glamourous and so enticing . And all the peer pressure etc. They crave and dream to be part of it. And especially here in their own Crown Heights all the goyishkeit and garbage is so infiltrated that it seems all so natural and normal,and the way it is supposed to be. When it`s really the most unnatural state of affairs here in Crown Heights. Haraya is: Look at everybody badmouthing some individuals who want to upgrade the tznius here a little bit. When someone is sick and looks to be cured is one level, and the much sicker person is the one who is soooo sick, but he doesn`t want to look for help because he thinks he is well. Well, my dear friends, this is the situation in crown heights today.

• Moti

  Give it a few weka or months and we will find out these so called guys dealing with the rIis issue are all going to be found out… That they are not that clean

• Hypocricy breeds sheker

  I couldn’t agree more with “Dvorah” who wrote that this tactic will backfire.

  Coercing people to sign a nameless petition should be the first thing that something smells foul. As it is, I personally have observed self proclaimed “signers” purchasing those contra banned items referred to in the petition! How hypocritical! Actually, to be quite frank, I’ve witnessed one of the main backers of the petition shopping in Post Markit after the campaign was already underway. This totally undermines they validity of all those involved.

• Aaron Glass

  TO the editors of this website YOU yes I mean takeh YOU contribute to this problem by reporting on events etc. of the so called new YI
  Lubavitchers. they are glorified and respected in the same manner as a new shliach I’m not belittling the good that they do but let’s not forget who we are and what we are supposed to stand for I don”t care what people do in their own privet life what has to concern us is the message we send in our actions in public and who we respect, I never see articles on who’s the Rebbi of the month.
  Sorry I got carried away i enjoy this web-site (most of the time)
  just venting my frustration with our looooooooong Golus.

• THE GUILTY WILL DEFEND...

  YAShER KOACH!! I HATE SHOPPING IN INAPROPRIATE STORES ANYWAY. FINALLY SOMEONE DOING SOMETHING. ANYONE COMPARING CROWN HEIGHTS TO ANYWHERE ELSE HAS FALLEN TOO LOW- THIS IS SUPPPOSED TO BE A HOLY SHCHUNA- NOT JUST ANOTHER AMERICAN NEIGHBORHOOD.

• 32 Toshiba & DSL

  For all you people who are impressed with all the “signatures” you should know that they are just as valid as the signatures that every CH yeshiva gets from their parent body. You know, the one that states that they do not have a tv or internet in the home (the one I’m typing on now). Every Yeshiva is proud to boast that their entire parent body signed. You and I know the truth.

• Dangerous!

  I would like to see a ban on High Fructose Corn Syrup, hydrogenated fats and other harmful ingredients. Until that time, I will not shop in Crown Heights Bakeries or Grocery Stores.

• in the know

  Firstly I know who spray painted the sign and there’s not 1 tiny thread of connection to the petition guys, the kollel guys that did the petition aren’t strong arming anyone, merely they are saying that if the stores do not abide in tznius ways they will shop elsewhere.

  Its called freedom of speech, your free to sell what you want, we are free not to patronize you.

• Solution: KOLLEL COMMUNITY

  Maybe these guys with WAY too much time on their hands can develop some land in Fallsburg or Monroe and can have their own purist community. Then the rest of us can keep walking around happily exposed, reading trash and watching movies.

• A.B.

  It is with the great sadness that i read the coment here, on a Lubavitch website, bashing everything that we hold dear.
  I am embarrassed to say that i live in CH.
  It is about time we asked ourselves what are we?
  We cant be Chassidish, but at the same time put down frumkiet, it just does not go.
  The Kolel Yungerlite, who have been vilified on this page, i can personally attest to their Yiras Shomayim, and their exemplary Midos, people who have personified the Maamer Chazal “K’shot Atzmacha Tchila”, they are the pride of Crown Hieghts. They are people who spend their day and night learning (contrary to what has been posted here).
  The petition was signed by many people in our community involved in Avodas Hakodesh, including Rabbonim, Mashpi’im, M’lamdim, and it says a lot when the higher echelons of our community (i don’t mean people running after Kovod and gelt), saying “enough is enough”.
  To the people who feel it was wrong to do, you can go ask any of the individuals, who involved themselves in this Inyan, and speak to them. They are not hiding from anyone, their names have been published (unlike some of the commentators here who are unable to put their name to their views.

• Ahavas Yisroel

  Ironically, in the name of Ahavas Yisroel, there is a machlokes that is being created here. While you may not agree with the way this issue was dealt with, at least these young men have ideals that they are willing to stick up for. Before bashing other people about what they are doing to try to improve our community, please think of one thing you can do to strengthen our community.
  Chesed and Gevurah must be balanced to create tifferes. People will be most receptive if people realize that strong measures are being taken because people actually care about the welfare of our community.

• Dress codes for store employees? HUH?

  I think Judaica World should stop selling leather yarmulkas.
  And the clothing stores should only sell choking clothes. And what about Sterling Electronics – have you seen some of those pictures in the frames they sell? I heard that chocolate is an aphrodisiac. Maybe we should ban chocolate from Crown Heights shops.

• flip side

  well i actually like the level of tzius and look forward to shopping the shchuna.

• a cocerned citizen

  kol hakavod to people who really care enough to make a difference.Keep up your good work but do it in a pleasant manner.

• Are you kidding me???

  I frequent Post Markit on a continual basis. The owners have nothing but the highest standards in tznuis (?!?@) and service the community in a way that is held to the highest of standards (hullo?????).
  WHAT HAS BECOME OF US-OF ALL STORES, YOU HAVE THE AUDACITY TO SAY THAT THEY HAVE HIGH STANDARDS OF TZNIUS?????

• serel maness

  at least this is coming out,with everyone opions ,there’s a lack of tznius here for a long time, and to be frank about 2 of my girls move out ’cause they not interested. you cannot put blame on parents,there are many facters involved.but l do agree that we need to put our heads together. my daughter said to me,the youngest,mommy how come she has her hair showing,l said sweetheart l think everything that could be said was and these ladies don’t hear. like it said with a torah article l read to my girls(l email It) who is hashem that l should listen to him?l keep trying,it’s not easy, but the rebbe says teaching torah is never finish.any creative ideas?

• To the Raksins

  Penina Raksin – Post Mark-It wrote:
  “My Opinion” you are correct – we absolutely DO NOT sell any secular papers or magazines to children.

  Maybe not to little children, and for that – yasher koach.

  But you DO sell them to my over Bar/Bas Mitzvah “children”. And you do sell them to my husband…no yasher koach for that.

  He only buys them because they our available in an “unzerah” store on the avenue!! He wouldn’t buy them in a goyish store – but in an anash store: It is like putting a hechsher on a chazir.

  No one should interfere with your parnassah – unless you interfere with my family’s ruchniyus. If you were selling harmful drugs, would you still tell everyone to mind their own business?? Would you say that “we absolutely DO NOT sell any to children” – so it’s alright to sell the drugs??

  Your parnassah is earned by being machshil my family members. And that IS my business!!!

  If you believe parnassah comes from Hashem – ask yourself, does Hashem want me to sell trash / poison to fellow yidden?? Don’t you think Hashem is capable of giving you parnassah from kosher products that don’t harm my family??

  Keep shmutz out of our neighborhood – is that something I cannot ask for, no – not ask, but DEMAND for.

• I wish these individuals lots of luck.

  and I hope those lowlife magazines, that the improper behavior and dress habits that are found in certain stores (etc, etc, etc) leave Crown Heights.
  To be honest, these stores need to learn and make money without the improper stuff going on-and if they can’t, THEN LET THEM GO ELSEWHERE-
  our children and ourselves do not need to be karbonois!!!
  The best thing would be if you guys could stay though and respect and behave according the directives of our leader-the Rebbe.
  And please, all those negative BT comments should be flushed down the toilet. How rude and insesitive those people are to say these things.
  I hope anyone who is a B’al Teshuva pays no attention to them.

• to BCH from a 3rd generation Shliach

  You are incredibly offensive! We aren’t mekarev the non frum, that when they become Frum, and more so, ibergegebeneh Chassidim, they should called out on these websites as “tzugekumene interlocutors” who ought to be sued for their (sincere) efforts. What do you expect their non frum parents to think, when they read on a Chabad site that their children are more extreme than the Chabad leadership? You want to destroy the little respect that the parents have finally developed (very very reluctantly in many instances) to the decision (to become BT) that their children made?! Shame on you!

• just a point

  I think that you need to mention that mimulo is one of your advertisers that may help understand this biased article this is a big problem many men are uncomfortable going into mimulo,post mark it… because of the lack of tznius of the workers – they find it offending and YES to all those that say it should come from the home but it doesn’t the schools teach one thing and the moms go and buy the kids untznius clothing and dress the same these people have good intentions they may not be so suave but they will learn from their mistakes and all the untniuz ppl should as well

• not my tactics, but emess is emess

  like any city or community in america:

  when you want something to change, you get a petition signed.

  dont like the length of your neighbors grass, a petition!
  dont like the upkeep of the local stores, a petition!
  dont like the position of the traffic lights, a petition!
  dont like the loud music in the business downstairs, petition!
  dont like the smell of fish in the street, a petition!
  dont like the ugly house down the block, a petition!
  dont like the nature of the new business moving into town, a petition!
  or better yet, take it to court!!!

  anyone who thinks these ‘taliban tactics’ are foreign to the american way of life ought to read up on the details of their local zoning laws!!! they are crafted to suit ‘community interests’ NOT freedom and liberty of every individual!!!

  anyone who thinks a friendly word makes all the difference, see: one store is happy to satisfy the ‘community’, another would rather garner ONLY their customers interests, and further suggest that its in the spirit of yiddishkeit?!!!

  you say, go speak to the store owner?
  no1 knows better the amount of people who suggested the material being sold was inappropriate for the location than the store owners themselves, and its more than most would think.

  get cigarettes out of our food stores!!!

  i dont think this guy from the kollel is israeli, nor a tzfati yechi yarmulka advertiser, and if i am correctly informed, is an ffb (frum from birth) from a chabad community, not that it should make a difference either way.

  Again, for all you relatively ignorant ones, the actions taken by these kollel yungerleit is no more extreme than the action taken in secular society for whatever they have a whim to disllike!

  goyim try to fight the presence of chabad establishments near their shops using the law, jews can fight the presence of pritzus in ours using the same laws!

• miriam

  I think that before focusing on “non-tznius” articles that are sold in stores, we should focus on the lack of tznius within the home ie. daughters and wives walking around in mini skirts and cleavage showing while wearing a long sheitel.in my opinion, sons and daughters walking around the shchunah on cell phones on shabbos, holding hands with their boy/girl-friends is a topic that is far more important to be lobbying for. i don’t believe that writing up a petition involving jewish store owners is ethically or religiously acceptable. we have always been taught not to judge others – is that not a point in chassidus? a lubavitch woman selling “non-kosher” magazines may in essence be helping someone who is slowly being mekarev to yiddishkeit. any extreme measure is unhealthy.

• Shmuel

  “Raksin said he listens to opinions of others, yet reserves the right to conduct his business as he sees fit”

  Mr. Raskin you absolutely do “not” have the “right” to conduct business as you see fit, we have a Torah and Shulchan Aruch that dictates how me and you should live our lives and run our businesses! thats the reality of a (frum) Jew whether you like it or not!!!

• father of daughters

  true CH has a major tzius problem. However tznius starts at home. Going to stores, getting signatures is going to be counter productive. Many of my friends shave and our wives dress not tzniusdik at all. What do you want from the kids. Why don’t you first check why the boys/men shave?Next find out why the women go without shietlen and with short skirts etc. etc.
  attacking someone in shul or in their store (place of business) is not going to do the job. Also you guys are not the people to do this. You need someone who is respected, who is looked up to and someone whose opinion will mean something. I hear from my daughter that in BR the tzius lady is not respected because she is so out of touch and the girls try to get away with short socks, skirts etc., just to show. However, if you have a person who dresses tzniusdik and also with it and is up to date with the world, she is very much looked up to and the girls are happy to comply and want to copy her because they respect her.
  The people working on trying to improve tznius should be some chosheva people, not some unknown, young guys who think they understand kids, adults or the frum lubavitch world.
  In Russia the frum women dressed a certain way and were still real tzinusdik in their actions etc.

• shlucha

  Good for them!
  Would these stores be proud of the garbage in their store if the Rebbe walked in. I think NOT.
  Then get rid of it – and stop transgressing- lifnei iver lo sitein michshol.

  As an out of town shlucha, it is sad to have to say I DREAD bringing my kids into some of those stores in Crown Heights and to see all the pusta keilim walking around.

• I support their campaign!

  Let’s get all the not tznius garbage out of here once and for all-

• feigie

  I remember learning….that when you point a finger….3 fingers are pointing back at yourself. I need to work on my own tznius issues and improve them.

• Levi

  Although I am not a heiseh right wing chossid, (don’t wear dress shirts etc.,) I will say the following:

  For too long the store shop owners have had total disregard for the sensitivity of their customer base. We’re trying our best to raise our children as Chassidim, and if when they become adults they choose to be Modern Orthodox or even frei, that’s their choice. But right now when our children are young, we have to provide them the foundation of what it means to be Chassidim of the Rebbe. We don’t need local anash shops selling our children things that the Rebbe didn’t approve of. If you need a shaver, newspaper, magazine, etc. etc. then for the sake of our children, get it on Utica or Nostrand Ave. If you want non tznius clothing get it at Atlantic Center. But for the sake of our children, don’t make Kingston Ave Shopping, no different than Nostrand Ave Shopping! You want us to be sensitive to your parnassa, then be sensitive to our childrens chinuch.

  When I was growing up, if my father had to stop off in the supermarket, he would leave me in the car to shelter me from seeing the large smorgasbord of magazines. Do I have to leave my children in the car, when I go stop off at a Lubavitcher – owned shop to purchase shampoo? Do you expect me to give my children a list of which Lubavitch stores I don’t allow them to visit?! Some of you are really forcing us parents to consider such measures. Not to mention the CH shop, that hosts a co-ed club/group. A himel geshray!

  I fully understand the tactics that they’re using (kollel yungerleit, or whoever they are). If they would walk in the store and speak to the owner as suggested, they would at best be looked at strangely and walk out demoralized. If you gather momentum for a cause (via petition), and then present the shopkeeper with what you are trying to accomplish, it’s much more likely that he’ll take you seriously. It’s not like they threatened to bust their windows if they don’t comply to their requests. They merely relayed to them that they can’t continue to patronize their store if their business is involved in compromising their efforts of being mechanech their children al taharas hakodesh (v’horuhas rabeinu).They (those types of shops) are not THE boogeyman in this, but they are a nice portion of the problem.

  I also found it offensive that you disclosed the names of the activists (yes I know that they went to people, making it not the world’s biggest secret who they are, but it’s still very different if you put their names online for the whole world to see, including potential future employers etc.), unless they told you in advance that they don’t mind their identities being published.

• ONE POINT

  bs“d

  iI think that the point here is (regardless of the method being used) that there is a communal responsibility – including the stores – to ensure certain standards in our midst. it seems to me that this is issue is being avoided and rejected by some. it would be self understood that if there is a newspaper that bashes Chabad that it wouldn’t be sold in crown heights. why? because if you are part of a community you support it’s views. regarding Tznius it’s the same thing. if the community as a whole would have certain standards it would be self understood that the stores in the community would comply with it. the excuse of a ”positive approach” etc. wouldn’t even be discussed. the real issue is the lack of applying certain standards of Tznius in the first place, and secondly ignoring the fact that what goes on in the stores does set a mode for what’s going in the community. and automatically you start bashing anybody that starts placing any responsibility on you. as it seems clear from many comments that certain people are upset about the fact that somebody is trying to tell the stores what to do, but i think any person would understand that there is such a thing that is you really do have Torah community standards that the stores should not be violating it.

  Regarding this whole talking about the Rebbes approach, it’s sounds like beautiful words, but please count how many times the Rebbe spoke very sharp Sichos regarding Shleimus Haaretz, Mihu Yehudi, what about the petitions the Rebbe arranged in 5743 to be signed and given to the President about a moment of silence? yes, obviously just shouting and screaming wasn’t the Rebbe’s approach but to be quiet when wrong thing are being done was also not the Rebbe’s approach.

• A true Chosid of the REBBE.

  Truth be told, when it comes to tznius we Lubavitchers here in CH are more like Young Israel style and not like true chassidim. All the other sects of chassidim like Belz, Vishnitz, Bobov etc. etc. none of them dress the way we do.
  Out of the 3 Girls schools in the shecunah only BCM has tzniusdik girls the other 2 especially BRHS have alot of work to do.

• to the 3 clowns by eli

  bug off and get a life there is a few places that are lookin for workers 1 mcdonalds,2 boars head, 3 7nails,4 the bar down the block, or 5 scores in south beach have a gr8 day go post mark it and all ch stors dont let some low lifr people who dont have jobs make an earthquake like the one in haiti

• hgu

  whats about the chilul hashem that was made by the subway on kingston ave. this is what happens when R.Ganz comes from satmare to talk to naive kollel men…..this is not lubacitch derech….these young misguided guys need to be stopped…if not let them moce to willamsburg or mea sharim.

• THANK YOU!

  education DOES start at home, what the Raksins (and many others) don’t seem to comprehend is that our home is also kingston ave, and our young impressionable kids look not only to their parents, but to other adults in the schuna on what is appropriate

• happy

  Whats about the mens behvior in ALL AREAS

• Dear Moti

  Dearest Moti,
  Yes, BH, they are that clean. They practice what the Rebbe asks. They are most definitely chossidim of the Rebbe. Are YOU?

• Hats off - Yaasher Koach!

  Kudos to these yungeleit that are doing what the Torah said!
  Check out the Rebbe’s sicha, Succos 5749, about the story of Rav”a how he ripped off a RED dress from a woman and the Rebbe’s answer, YES, about the Horah to be a Kanai!!! The Rebbe!! Not Williamsburg!

  Yiddishkeit is not optional. Halalcha is halacha however you look at it. Learning the Rebbe’s sichos, maamorim and Igros, Tanya and everything else as college students means that we have not followed the horah’s of the Rebbe!!! we need to learn to internalize its message.

  Who cares if the 5 year old know a perek of Tanya by hard if when they grow up they touch their beards, which is against the teachings of the Alter Rebbe, or that their wives walk around with bare legs and no shaitel? Do you know the Alte Rebbe’s ruling? Is that what you call a chossid of the Rebbe? the Rebbe was an Ish halacha! Hundreds of volumes attest to that!

  Do you know the definition of a chossid? Not someone who feels comfortable with all that is going on and suddenly his Ahavas Yisroel takes over!!! Is this true Ahavas Yisroel???
  Is this what the Rebbe meant? What a twist!!

  The Rebbe sent shluchim around the world to make Baalei tshuva… do you think he thinks greater about you since your father was frum and so was your grandfather??? Just the opposite you are an embarresment to him! if this is what you look like if your parents were frum, uch in vai!!!! you are an ebarresment to the Rebbe and the community!

  Ah, that’s the reason you are fuming since you don’t like anyone telling you what yes or not to do. Till now you were pretty comfortable because it was quiet and now that the heat is on it’s…. So, if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. Leave CH and you will be doing everyone a favor including yourself.

  Now, please explain to me why the stores in CH are not open on Shabbos? People need parnassah. The economy is in the dumps? Maybe we would have more jobs??? Everyone can use another few dollars?? Do you think your parnassah is in your hands? Since when has someone made parnassah through doing things against halacha????

  So, if we believe that earning a livelihood is in our hands, go on, but I tell you you will be greatly disappointed!!!

  If you have read the Rebbe’s sichos or igros then you have probably seen that for tznius we merit livelihood, health and nachas from our children (Zohar). Have you seen the Rebbe say that about anything else?

  I am sure you are not ready to give up your health, nor your money nor your nachas from your children (everyone wants theire kids to be better then them…) because you are not ready to struggle for the rest of your life.

  The last mivtza the Rebbe initiated was Moshaich and Geula. Do you think inspiring other Yidden to put on tfillin or Goyim about Shiva Mitzvas Benei Noach will help bring Moshiach if we don’t keep Torah and Mitzvos appropriately?
  Learning inyonei Moshaich and Geula is not what the Rebbe wanted. He wanted chassidim who learn in order to do, we need to internalize what we are learning.

  Torah is not what we are majoring in to recieve our diploma. Torah and Mitzvos are our obligation, without our choice to pick and choose! This is what ties us to Avinu Sh’Bashomayim who gives and takes… we need Siyyata Dishmaya however we look at it.

  Let’s do what’s right.
  Hats Off to people who stick up for Kavod Shomayim!

• not worried

  scared in ny:
  don’t be so scared! it’s one thing when people are in varying degrees, GROWING, it’s quite another when one is on the way down and drags the whole community.

• jui

  to the 3 stooges. get a job stop harrassing hard working store owners…
  this not our way…chinuch stars at home not the store….get a job or move to israel…mea sharim sounds like a good place for you…

• Chazak V-ametz

  Baruch hashem people are doing something about this horrendous situation!

  Hashem should give you koach to withstand it all. If you wouldn’t be doing something right you would be ignored.

  I guess the message touched those that it needed.

• Dear Yossi

  CHAS VESHOLOM. you are clearly not understanding what the problem is. Like the Friediker Rebbe said: AMERICA IS NISHT ANDERISH! why is ones wife walking around with her knees uncovered in the streets??
  Throw rocks? Chas v’sholom! the point is to EDUCATE, and LIVE WITH THE TORAH! Halacha IS halacha!
  The problem is that people ARE minding “their own” business! Time to take action and be responsible for ourselves and others!
  Closed minded? You have no idea who these amazing yungerlight are!

• the problem = ahavas Yisroel!

  It shocks me to hear the type of language being used…
  Selling un’tznius clothing and reading material is ok. dirty language is ok… the problem is the ahavas Yisroel of these yungeleit…
  B”H we still have people that side with the Torah and stick up for Hashem.
  What a nachas!

• livush or actions?

  wow ch.info, talk about a biased article!
  of course the shopkeepers are trying to save their behinds and talk bad about these husbands and fathers, they’re worried about themselves and not their community!
  this is not a good job of reporting, this is ridiculous propoganda. if only you yourselves were frum.

• kol hakavod

  i agree 100%.

  theres nothing “radical” about what theyre doing.

• just wondering

  does tearing people down who care about tzneeus make some of you feel better about your lack of tzneeus?of course it does.

• TO CROWNHEIGHTS.INFO

  i started hating checking out your site! All u have to say is Lashon Hora, or wtvr u say is written negatively- taking sides. the main thing we should b having now is ACHDUS. so stop with these posts!

• Mush

  I am not reading any comments – why look for other opinions when you have your own?
  Plus you’re very very tired.

  Very eloquently & wonderfully written article Ben, Kol Hakavod :)

• Cheshban hanefesh

  I would suggest that the people who have been deemed unconforming to tznius guidelines should write to the Rebbe, explaining exactly what their problem is and what they are selling or doing and ask if it is within halachic ramifications.

  Take the time to write. If you feel it is 100% or atleast 95% ok I am sure you will not have a problem writing. if you don’t write that probably means you have nothing to say.

  Yes, on shlichus we know that everything is usser, but why did I need to tell it to my children before I sent them to CH to school/yeshiva?

• Thumbs up for tznius

  What a paradox!
  the frum are…
  and the bt’s are the frum ones….

  we thought the bt’s were having the problem handling Yiddishkeit.

• annoyed cher

  If someone finds a certain store “offensive” let him not shop there. Why should there be a whole campaign against someones business and parnassah? I don’t know what the rebbe would say, but I do not think that launching public campaigns was something the rebbe did, except for positive things, like mivtzoim. If someone finds it rrlly offensive, then they shouldnt go there. what is their point? to oust these stores from the community and put them out of business?

• what-s the problem?

  Let’s make the Rebbe proud and clean up the place!

  We deserve better and so do our children.

  Out with the TV’s and video’s. Read Sichos Kodesh, Rosh Chodesh Elul 5714, Vol. 18, Page459-461

  Most of the problem will be gone.

• fry in the shteeble

  a bunch of men trying to control women, old news

• anonymous

  wth?? r we a community or a cult!? preventing certain things in our ‘community’ that the minority dont appreciate is not fair, and simply pathetic. why dont you guys focus your attention on stuff more important.

• than you

  Better later than never. This was long over due.
  Thank you for taking the time and doing the job for the others.
  People are respected for standing up to what’s right.

• IT-S ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  i feel so terrible hearing my non lubavitch neighbor speaking about our women and girls in a very demeaning manor.
  we are creating such a chilul lubavitch and chilul Rebbe. it is so unfair really to be doing this to the Rebbe because he surely doesn’t deserve for his chassidim to behave this way, after all the Rebbe has done for all of us and how much he has given us.it is almost like a betrayal. we were once on top of the world as chassidim of the Rebbe and as lubavitchers. it would be so nice to reclaim our rightful place.looking as we all should needs to be the place to start. we are all hurting from this sad disgusting and very ugly behavior!

• A B.T. point of view on this issue

  B“H

  People are hung up on the possibility that the three organizers of the effort are ”B.T.s“.

  As one myself, please hear this: The BTs are in a position to better understand the risk of having treif stuff going on, or treif stuff for sale, in frum-run stores. Many raised ”F.F.B.“ truly don’t get it, although of course many FFBs DO get it.

  Why not push Kol Tuv or Empire Kosher to carry treif foods for their non-Jewish customers, because ”we Lubavitchers can handle it“? I don’t think so.

  Shall we encourage Hamafitz or Judaica World to carry the ”NY Times Best Seller List“ novels, because ”Hashem determines your parnassah“ anyway? I’m sorry, but this comment sounds like something a gambler might say.

  As a BT, I observe that too many who were raised frum do not truly, deeply, and completely understand the risks. It’s one thing to stay away from goy-owned stores that sell treif, or to learn to guard your eyes and neshamah if you don’t live in a frum area and have to only shop at goy-owned stores. But it’s quite another thing to enter a frum-owned store and find treif right there, next to the stuff we came there to buy in the first place.

  I’m sorry to hear that people are throwing out the baby with the bathwater — demeaning the effort of these yungerleit, only because some of their methods were a bit rough around the edges.

  But let’s not lose the message — there should be no treif behavior or treif merchandise in the frum-owned stores. If a frum person wants to sell such stuff, let them open a store in a non-frum neighborhood.

  We can’t force any store owner’s hand ultimately, but tizku l’mitzvot to these yungerleit, who are trying to focus our attention on ONE major part of the tznius problem here. Down the road, they can focus on all of the other parts of the tznius problem too — it’s a cheap shot to criticize them for ”only” attacking one part of the problem, as you’ve got to start somewhere!
  PS — I personally like the people who run these three stores very much. I think we all mostly like them — they’re fine people. And, yes, all Yidden deserve to make a good parnassah, especially if they work as hard as these proprietors do.
  But it doesn’t make them immune from having these kinds of problems (in their stores) brought to their attention.
  And to argue that such changes would harm their parnassah kind-of sounds like the argument of a Yid who doesn’t want to have to be closed on Shabbos.

• Not the Lubvitch way

  To all those who decided it’s not the lubavitch way ,news flash
  ,A CHOSID FIRST KEEPS SHULCHON ORUCH then goes the extra mile
  ,BT or not gezeh is a bunch 0’s its the number that YOU put in front that makes a difference

• simcha hellinger

  this story was written with a negative slant against those who are trying to help the community be modest. ok so they are new but they should not be villanized. a bit of work on the pr department will help them and so should we

• A tznius mama at wits end!

  To “A CONCERNED MESIVTA STUDENT and preventive vs. reactive”-Yes BCM and BM have tznius programs and claim they enforce them out of school also. However many of these girls do NOT adhere to these tznius halachas out of school and they are not enforced! I am the parent of one of these girls and do set a proper example for my daughter according to halacha. However, there are even more examples of how NOT to dress and act al pi halacha in our community and being a rebellious teenager, she insists on following them as I am just old fashioned. I have brought up her nontznius attire out of school to her hanhala several times and NOTHING was done. Even more so, I was told that even the principal was seen wearing a jean skirt. Therefore, based on everyone’s arguments that tznius begins at home, this is not necessarily true. It must be consistent thru and thru!

• Extinguish those flames!

  we are busy with outreach. Why do you get so upset with in reach. We must Save our own before we need to send shluchim to work on them.

  Yes, learning in kollel is important but learning for the sake of learning and not to do b’poel??? it is not the time to be complacent when the CH is up in flames. Kollel is not the place, Kingston is.

• Yesher Koach!

  I agree with this.
  Though it is true that the problem often begins at home, it is also true that from there it spreads.
  We are a chassidishe community, and we need to do ALL we can to stay that way. If the adults throw in the effort, the children will grow up to realize and appreciate our priorities.

• Dave

  The fact that we tolerate the disgusting trend among the bochurim to walk around with their shirts unbuttoned down to their rib cage proves that,on issues of Tznius, this community is beyond hope.

• shlichus as a way of life

  you see shlichus as a way of life. Shluchim encourage people to change their lifestyles. would you at least change your suit? or color of your shirt? or shoelace, for that matter?

• Chaim

  Anybody who has meet Shalom Ber Mendelson knows that he is a man of truth, He didnt post his opinion on a website, he went directly to the owners and tried affecting change. I am sure the reason why he did not comment for this article is because he did not want any Machloikes to come from this.

• IT IS ABOUT TIME....

  We might not be williamsburg, and thank g-d for that because we have what the Rebbe thought us, but the Rebbe onnce told Rabbi Yisroel Rosenfeld O“H with regards to ”Tznius“ that we can learn from williamsburg how women should dress. So don’t say that that Rebbe is happy with the way tznius is practices here in CON TZIVOH HASHEM ES HABROCHO. So please give a helping hand to what the toroh teaches us and stop looking for whom to blame. like the Mezricher magid told his mother that his yichus will start from him. (after she lost the sefer hayucsun ,and was crying about it)

  with regards to Parnoso, Hashem gives parnoso means that it is not what we think will sell better or what the people want gives parnoso, jhust have Hashem in mind with what ever you do and rest asure that he will see it fit that you have what you need, of caurse there is the mattar of BRCHUROH (choice) but that is so that when you do the right thing you get rewarded and CV”S the reverse, not that it means you are permmited to do what ever you want.

• Worried crown heights mother

  Oy nebach! The geulah shleima is being withheld from the yidden because of these few people in crown heights who do not realize that our tayere, precious children see and hear everything we do and say.Riboynoy shel oylam!When will peoploe begin to realize the importance of tznius?

• john doe- may reflect the veiw of many

  I think the women in MiMulo should change the way they dress. It doesn’t stop me from shopping there because I would prefer to support a Jewish shop that sells flowers rather than someone on the street who doesn’t pay rent, their flowers are pretty and I never had a bad experience with them. I do appreciate the act of these Kollel fellows at one level. However, the approach was not the right type of approach. It is a touchy matter as to how to react. It’s hard to tell someone to their face you are really not dressing tzneusly, But to try to take away their livelihood is a terrible thing .

  No hard feeling Mimulo, but please take the initiative and up the dress code standards. I really love your store. this bothers me every time I walk in.

• David

  I work in a store that honors shluchim with a discount. It is heartbreaking to see how many so-called shluchos do not dress. I mean barely dress.
  If you are in a roll-model position than take on that position, if not step down.
  The problem is not only in Crown Heights I guess.but a lot of it starts from the epicenter. Lets become Torah abiding Jews ( at least somewhat.)

• hippocrites

  Hey people out their in the community. Listen to all yourselves talk. Most of you have children, or siblings. most people that comment have children that have access to the computer that your commenting with. You all know what types of images and movies are available…your children have access to it. Even though i live and grew up in crown heights, i don’t have high standards,and i do have an addiction to those types of images, realize this, most of your children are like me. i don’t challenge any halacha stuff because i barely learned any of it, but i’m wondering if any lubavitch rabbi’s come to this site.

• Getzy

  You know the Jackie Mason line, that a Jew wakes up in the morning wondering “who will I sue today?”

  TO paraphrase, In Crown Heights SOME people wake up asking “what Machloikes can I stir up today.”

  Perhaps next they should protest outside establishments where jews MAY work, or “patronize” on Shabbos?
  Or, remove the bike-lanes concerned for next seasons sites?

• Shaina

  When Tznius is important to an employer, he or she will tell prospecitve employees what the standards are, and will explain in a respectful way that this “dress code” is a condition for employment. If Tznius is important to a shop owner, he or she will dress that way.

  If Tznius is important to a community, should shops that don’t measure up be not patronized?

  Several times I have privately approached shop owners about the dress of their personel. In one case I was told that the individual was being employed to bring her closer, to save her from slipping into a farther away situation. In another case I was greeted by rolling eyeballs.

  I patronize Apple Drugs, and am grateful for their convenience and personal service. However, I have long been uncomfortable with the dress of some of their personel. I never commented (perhaps I should have) but I’m grateful that this matter was brought to their attention. I believe that Apple Drugs will overlook the unpleasant aspects of the criticism,(“The wise appreciate criticism”) and will respond positively. As for Memula, the young women who own the shop are delightful, creative and exceptionally talented. May they use those talents to set all their standards high, and give everyone in our community complete nachas.

  Shaina

• maybe all the TRAGIDIES

  perhaps all the tragedies are because of this groups Supper-Aggressive wild-eyed ridiculous ideas!!!

• teachers need to be extra careful

  My daughter came home the other day and told me…
  “You know my own morah wears skirts that are just under the knee and pretty tight…is that tznius??
  Morahs should be extra careful and extremely aware of their influence on our children-
  PLEASE be extra careful with your tznius.

  I totaly agree that many men too need to be more careful.

  Tznius affects us, the people around us, and all our actions. Certains modes of dress often bring along certain modes of behavior. Behaviors that the person may never have done if they were dressed more tznius.

  Please, let us all get along-
  but let us also make the Rebbe proud in how we adhere to tznius of our clothes, eyes, ears…
  and may Hashem give us the strength to do it!

  Moshiach NOW!!!

• BCH

  3rd generation Shliach,
  1. The issue wasn’t whether these young men are “BTs” or not. They are clearly “tzugekumen” to Crown Heights, they ARE outsiders, young inexperienced outsiders to boot, who should most definitely bring any communal matters to the attention of the Beis Din and not take it upon themselves to act! If you have trouble understanding this simple point, I really don’t know what else to say to you…
  2. Their sincerity is NOT relevant here AT ALL. If al pi Torah they caused hezek to these shop owners or to their reputation, the shop owners are most certainly entitled to address their grievances through a DIN TORAH. I said nothing about “suing” anyone, which implies a secular court, G-d forbid!

• shopper

  I couldn’t read all the comments they were driving me nuts! But here’s MINE:

  I had an accident last year which I’ve all but forgotten about. Every time I go into Post Mark It Mr. & Mrs. Raskin ask how I am. Their store is clean, their service & consideration to customers is exemplary, and I have never seen anything unTzniusdik in the store, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE WIVES & DAUGHTERS WHO GO IN!!

  Apple Drugs: yes, some of the clothing worn by the female assistants can be a little snug. But they are all polite, not flirtatious, & as the men & women pass each other in that narrow space behind the counter they are careful not to touch (I supposes sometimes it might be accidentally unavoidable.) But to publicly shame these people? THAT IS MENTSCHLECH??? If you were to say you’d spoken with Shloime & he told you to get lost, then I can see you starting a smear campaign. But there is no way you can justify any of this.

  Mimulo. Movies are TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE (unless you’re showing Ushperzin or something to gender-separated audiences.) They understood & hopefully, they will think next time. But again, they complied with your request, so why harass them & publicly smear THEIR name?

  Do these wackos want to see people humiliated? Put out of business? Insulted? Their fanatic & completely crazy behavior completely goes against what is considered appropriate in dealing with their concerns.

  A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. So they learn in Kolel; did they ever learn HOW TO BE A MENTSCH??? My husband saw this insane petition & refused to sign, the only one AFAIK who didn’t in the BT minyan he sometimes davens in. He was upset at seeing how many of these idiots ran to sign it. And not everyone who signed is a BT. But everyone who did should be ashamed of what these crazies did with their good-intentioned signatures. Next time, do some research instead of knee-jerking & running to be a “frummie.”

  What does Rabbi Heller say about his Kolel yungerleit’s tactics? And to the signatories: start making changes in your own families, you hypocrites.

• to 3rd generation shliach

  You are right about the Rabbonim…
  if only they would take a proper stand…
  alas that is not the case!
  So people are left to do the work themselves…

  You don’t speak for Crown Heights-
  there are many that are sick and tired of the tznius situation here and are VERY happy that someone is trying to ‘push people against the wall about it’.

  Believe me-
  Everyone would be much happier if it wasn’t necesary at all to do such a thing.

  Ad mosai?????

• Just wondering

  Are these chaps also going after men who bare their elbows when they wear short-sleeve-shirts?

• TO: ... maybe all the TRAGIDIES

  “perhaps all the tragedies are because of this groups Supper-Aggressive wild-eyed ridiculous ideas!!!”

  THESE MEN, ARE ACTING IN RESPONSE TO ALL THE TRAGIDIES!!

  READ WHAT ZOHAR SAYS “THE CAUSE” IS R”L

  HISGALUS NOW!

• ASTOUNDED!!!

  To the wife & mother who is angry her husband & kids buy papers in Post Mark It…

  Why yell at the Raksins? If YOUR HUSBAND & KIDS embarrass you by buying stuff you don’t want in your home, THAT’S YOUR PROBLEM!

  If you can’t “control” them & make them follow your archaic rules…THAT’S YOUR PROBLEM!

  You need to take out your whip & beat your poor husband & kids into submission. For shame! They actually want to read & see what’s going on the world from decent magazines? Tut! Tut! you mean your husband can’t go outside CH to buy a newspaper? What, he doesn’t work? You don’t let him have ANY freedom?

  You say “Your parnassah is earned by being machshil my family members. And that IS my business!!!”

  You are 100% correct. It is YOUR business, not Mr Raksin’s. As I said: if you can’t control YOUR OWN FAMILY, IT’S YOUR PROBLEM!!

  I feel really sorry for your poor husband & children…no wonder they escape into the world.

  You should get rid of the Internet too…all those nasty pop-ups could give you a heart attack G-d forbid. They are definitely untznius.

• London Papa

  about time too. going into CH is a culture shock for any remotly frum Yid due the the great lack of Tznius – you only notice that, not the many, many corrctly dressed men and ladies. Even the kid are not dressed properly.

  As for the posters – in Stamford Hill there is an agreement wih the companie who put up the posters so that we do’t have thi problem. Why not try it there?

• Donut Girl

  Blah, Blah, Blah, blah….my head is beginning to hurt from everyone talking a load of garbage! Post Mark it does not display their magazines the way the non-jewish stores do. If u want to see it, u will! If u r looking for trouble, u will definitely find it! Education begins at home, teach ur children the proper chinuch and that’s how u will have frum children, stop looking to blame the demise of a community on shop keepers, trust me, it is these shopkeepers showing the children whose parents weren’t capable of “educating” their kids to their liking, that its not abnormal to be different. I don’t live in the neighborhood anymore since I got married but I frequently come back to do my shopping here. I enjoy very much the way the shopkeepers take care of me and will continue to do my shopping here whenever I can! I forgot after these many comments who said people should get magazine subscriptions to their home, the problem with that is you have neighbors watching what the mail man is putting into ur neighbors mailboxes and the descretion that you may want isn’t there. By getting it in the store u can black bag it so that neighbors don’t have to judge you based on what they see u receive in your mailbox!
  To make a long story short, if u have issues with tznius, harassing the shopkeepers won’t do anything, speak to the schools about educating the children on the proper ways of tznius, and educate the parents on the proper codes of the laws.
  Have a wonderful Shabbos everyone!!!!

• Mirrors are for looking within

  I think it’s a form of mental illness when people get personally offended and all worked up when they see someone who does not dress to their standards. I think all those who have this problem need to seek professional help to conquer their anger management and self awareness issues.

  Stop looking at others, look at yourself and only yourself. Do you speak with respect to your parents, spouse, children, neighbors? Are you genuinely concerned about the neighbor’s kid who started to wear jeans or are you just afraid that your child will want to do the same?

  Do you have an open and respectful relationship with your kids? If you did you probably wouldn’t have these issues. You can’t see it because you’re so involved in your own psychosis. Any outside observer can see that this is a disease manifesting and building steam from all the ignorant folks who think it’s acceptable to slander and harass others. Since when is harassment acceptable?

  To the wife who can’t control her ADULT HUSBAND, put him on a leash.

• BP Yid

  I am not a Crown heighter, but I have a few friends there, now that I am married it is a headache to get to where I need to get in Crown Heights without exposing my husband to all the UNNECESSARY short skirt and improperly cut neck lines and tight outfits in Kingston Ave and elsewhere…I go alone rather. Don’t get me wrong, my husband works in Manhattan, but Crown heights in no Manhattan so why the level of tznius is that of Manhattan?
  When I see a proper Lubavich girl walking around in the street, I get so much nachas “ Look! She is tzniusdik!! How amazing!”…it is a chiddush! Look! Lubavichers actually are able to raise girls that abide by halacha and follow their Rebbe’s teachings!!
  Ad Mosai??
  Ad Mosai???
  These are DESPERATE attempts to restore the situation a bit, the Rebbe z’y’a DID GIVE MUSSAR( did I say mussar in a Lubavich forum?? I hope I am not going to get cherem’d), SWEET LOVING MUSSAR, but nonetheless mussar, aren’t Lubavich women the ones that spread the sheitels among orthodox jewery?
  WHAT HAPPENED TO LUBAVICH?
  WHAT HAPPENED TO TORAH?
  WHAT HAPPENED TO MITZVOS?
  WHAT HAPPENED TO HALACHA?

• Windows Vista

  What happened to “Live and let live”!?!
  Post Mark-It is a gr8 store and one of the first places on the new Kingston Avenue 2.0 to have the full make-over that all the other stores need to have. The old Doar was a disgrace.
  It’s 2010 – but some stores on Kingston look like its stilll the seventies.
  Go Post Mark-It!!!!!!!!!

• trying to figure this out

  this is to Shmuel
  he wrote:
  Mr. Raskin you absolutely do “not” have the “right” to conduct business as you see fit, we have a Torah and Shulchan Aruch that dictates how me and you should live our lives and run our businesses! thats the reality of a (frum) Jew whether you like it or not!!!

  what are you talking about? there is nothing wrong with the way the raksin’s run their business. they respect their customers, and go out of the way to help everyone. they are not doing anything contrary to shulchan oruch by selling magazines. they are not selling cholov akum, unacceptable magazines, or movies. what is contrary to the Torah?

• The (proud) Shver

  I live in Flatbush and sometimes am surprised at what I see in the Rebbe’s neighborhood. Why do condemn those who at least are trying to do something while you bury your heads in the sand? Was this the right approach, well a movie night with mixed seating was cancelled, a girly magazine was not displayed, employees at a drug store were told to dress appropriately after 20 years. How many of you geniuses that complained about the “Meah Shearimniks” accomplished that. At least the discussion is now on the table. If you don’t like their approach straighten yourselfs out and don’t be an embarrassment to the Rebbe.

• Reality check

  How much would you tolerate? Here is some straight talk:

  Would you remain silent if there was a Lubavitch owned porn store on Kingston? Would you say “Tznius starts at home”?!

  Would you accept an Anash owned strip-club on Kingston Ave? After all, “we need ahavas Yisroel”?!

  How about a store that is used as a massage parlour or prostitution? Mind your own business?!

  V’haya machanecha kodosh – your camp should be holy, requires a tznius atmosphere in our shchuna.

  Not all the magazines in Raksin’s store are considered to be porn by goyish standards – but by shulchan aruch, immodesty is immodesty, whether it shows the upper arm, shoulder, stomach or private parts.

  Employees wearing revealing clothes etc is not exactly a strip club by goyish standards, but if these employees reveal body parts that should be covered, shulchan aruch deems these workers to be undressed!

  A movie night in a store front is not called a bawdy house or place of prostitution by goyish standards, but for a frum yid it becomes a place dedicated for giluy ara’ayos.

  Get real people: It’s the Torah that commands us to keep our camp holy (not Wlliamsberg, Taliban etc). Reject part of the Torah and you are an apikores.

  And there is no such thing as a chassidish apikores.

• Yours smells just like mine

  Maybe I should only shop on the internet b/c I may find myself standing in line behind a woman with nice tight jeans, sweet smelling perfume and long hair. I might end up transgressing by thinking about her. I guess I can’t leave my house b/c we live in a mixed community with a variety of ethnicities. Should CH shopkeepers only allow tzniusly dressed people (Jewish or non) to enter their stores? Should we have a security team placed at the door to allow only certain shoppers access?

  WHAT’S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE???

  If you want to live in an insular bubble and don’t want to join the ones that already exist then create your own. Like someone else said, purchase a plot of land and build up your own utopia where you can all be Stepford wives and husbands. But don’t think for a second that you have the right to take away my American freedoms all in the name of religion. Don’t think that you can vandalize property and slander people’s reputation and business all in the name of religion. That is what makes this Talibanish. We all answer to the same G-d, so you do your answering and I’ll do mine.

• Most Refreshing comments didnt read all

  Kol Hakovod! wrote:
  Those that commented probably lack in Tznius because if the importance of Tznius meant anything to them, they would also shturm the streets to change the situation of today’s Crown Heights.
  Everyone likes to bring the Rebbe in. The Rebbe also shturmed in public about Tznius.
  It’s about time that someone has the guts to go around and try to change the people.

  this is very true…post mark it sells very not modest things from jewelery to magazines…when it was previosly owned it was a pleasure…we miss dowar!!! we cant even look thru the windows anymore…it is a shame you cant see that you are selling garbage from the street…you are not on the level-so strive to be…dont try to be like the outside world1 I HOPE YOU HAVE READ THIS WELL!

• Most Refreshing comments didnt read all

  Wow! Looking at these comments, I see why they compare us to Modern Orthodox or worse. It is one thing not to do everything 100% right. It is altogether another to pretend that it is right and those who think otherwise are fanatical.
  When I saw the recent deterioration of tznius in CH, I chalked it up to the yetzer hora.
  From theses comments it appears that a new twisted philosophy prevails. They make me truly embarrassed to be a Lubavitcher!

  It’s about time!!!

  We were for too long on the opposite extreme, so yes we need the other extreme to balance things out….

  (I promise that the above store owners are only saying that after the fact)

  And please don’t call this Taliban, have you seen the Tznius patrol in other communities?

  It’s high time we take our community back!!!

  “Ahavas Yisroel” & tolerance. wrote:
  “Taking Mendelson aside, Gutleizer asked why he had not been approached personally, because he was willing to make changes when the matter was brought to his attention.”

  So that is why nothing was done for the last twenty years, until all-of-a-sudden, he faces a boycott!

  “But it is a radical, negative approach, completely opposite that of the Rebbe’s positive approach.”

  EVERY SINGLE PROBLEM in our Shchunah has been borne out of our “Ahavas Yisroel” and tolerance do certain elements and situations, until the point that everyone regrets it. As Chassidus teaches, how an Avraham could produce a Yishmael, and Dovid Hamelech could produce Avshalom – out of “Ahavas Yisroel” and tolerance.

  Infractions against Halacha SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED – and if you want to quote the Rebbe, well, the Rebbe never tolerated violations of Halacha.
  Infractions against Halacha SHOULD NOT BE TOLERATED – they must be addressed. It is true that the methods used should be in the least damaging way as possible – but it needs to be done effectively.

• Most Refreshing comments didnt read all

  BTW I think that it is not fair that we are picking only on the ladies again – what message are they being given when our own men parade around the streets, without hats and jackets, in T-Shirts and Jeans. Do you know of anyone who had the nerve to stand in the presence of the Rebbe, dressed that way! Or, who would feel comfortable writing a Duch to the Rebbe telling him that this is the way he dresses?

  izzy wrote:
  it is horrible to have a nude sign in front of 770 – keep spraying it! break it down!
  its a shame to the Rebbe!!!
  I agree with Mendel!
  let us give them an “A” for effort. Those who complain about the tznius issues should be willing to help these young men out. There should be more people willing to stick their necks out for restoring tznius to the Lubavitch community. Everyone should get on the bandwagon and strengthen tznius.
  I don’t know if the stores are to blame but if they lead the way and declare that they are joining the cause of tznius, others will follow suit. Let it become popular to dress and act with tznius.

  shlomo halevi wrote:
  i think people in our community should differentiate between an employee in a store not dressing modestly and a store owner having an eve of theater here in our frum neighborhood, ive always said orthodoxy is not democracy its a dictatorship so for a store owner(s) to do something like that here shows major disrespect for are way of life, as opposed to some random employee that dresses in a way that may be lacking where her or his boss has not made a statement taking on the establishment.
  we all have free will but a store owner that will go against our way of life should not expect support from our community
  preventive vs. reactive wrote:
  Ok, now i am fuming from these comments. yes you are right that we need to educate the students of CH. i know that BCM has a tznius curriculum, i think BM also has one and i am not sure about BR. however, it will take some time for these students who are learning the halachos and hashkafos to show an example to the rest of CH. until then it is the ADULTS who need to be an example.

  how are young girls supposed to think and rationalize when they learn the halachos and then go into Apple Drugs and see single boys and girls flirting with each other. they innocently go into Post mark it- and boom they are exposed to a beautiful scene full of magazines. then they hear about non-chassidish events going on in CH…. WHAT IN HEAVENS NAME ARE THEY SUPPOSE TO THINK?

  “We are sensitive to anything that others would consider inappropriate,” Raksin asserted. well, obviously this is a very sensitive issue, respect that and get rid of the shmutz in your store. women who are chalishing for magazines should subscribe to them (I think they are cheaper that way, anyways).

  as it is, our world is so full of shmutz, why do we need to add fuel to the fire. why cant we PREVENTIVE instead REACTIVE. let’s do what we can to prevent more children from being tempted to try non-kosher things instead of complaining later that “our” kids are off the derech.
  At least in Williamsburg, the parents are not blaming themselves for exposing their kids to non-kosher stuff.
  i support wrote:
  Even though these are not the messueres i would take I see nothing worng with asking Jewish stor ouners to remove any non-tznius matirial. We thank G-d have atablished a Frum neigboorhood and lets keep it that way. If you do not like the standeres of the neigboorhood then move elsewhere. My beiliefe is that eventhough Chabad pridens itself with being allenclusive we need to set some strong limints not to the outside but insde aswell. No these things are not the start of the Tznius problem but they create a atmosfire which does affect us in an even suddle way.

• Paint-lover

  Please do not compare spraying over a nude sign – which is highly commendable and an instinctive reaction (although somewhat illegal…) – to the signature efforts (the effectiveness of which is under heavy debate). There’s no doubt the two are done by completely different people or groups.

• DallasJew

  wow almost 200 comments – this one touched a few nerves.

  I was gonna say hey look its the ’90’s but that line became old as this decade moved in and it has not gotten easier. Lots have changed all around one must remember its not as easy to toe the line as it was many years ago. If you think all is so simple your are living in a void.

  regardless Moshiach is coming ot ot – lets just say he better get here really quick…

  Good Shabbos!

• Very well said! And I am a man

  BP Yid wrote:
  I am not a Crown heighter, but I have a few friends there, now that I am married it is a headache to get to where I need to get in Crown Heights without exposing my husband to all the UNNECESSARY short skirt and improperly cut neck lines and tight outfits in Kingston Ave and elsewhere…I go alone rather. Don’t get me wrong, my husband works in Manhattan, but Crown heights in no Manhattan so why the level of tznius is that of Manhattan?
  When I see a proper Lubavich girl walking around in the street, I get so much nachas “ Look! She is tzniusdik!! How amazing!”…it is a chiddush! Look! Lubavichers actually are able to raise girls that abide by halacha and follow their Rebbe’s teachings!!
  Ad Mosai??
  Ad Mosai???
  These are DESPERATE attempts to restore the situation a bit, the Rebbe z’y’a DID GIVE MUSSAR( did I say mussar in a Lubavich forum?? I hope I am not going to get cherem’d), SWEET LOVING MUSSAR, but nonetheless mussar, aren’t Lubavich women the ones that spread the sheitels among orthodox jewery?
  WHAT HAPPENED TO LUBAVICH?
  WHAT HAPPENED TO TORAH?
  WHAT HAPPENED TO MITZVOS?
  WHAT HAPPENED TO HALACHA?

• Who still reads magazines?

  Who needs magazines when we’ve got the internet!

• finally some action!

  we are all responsible for each other. There should definitely be some sort of dress code in these stores-whether they are personally up to that level or not.

  tznius is halacha. it doesnt matter what sells.

  Even if this is a more negative approach, I believe it will cause change (as we have seen already from the examples in the article!) It just needs to be approached fairly and in the right way.

  I support this.

• Igros

  whats all the confusion? Let’s just ask the Igros!
  So – I opened up the Igros and it said clearly “Ein shum Chshas” – there is no problem.
  So there you have the rebbe’s opinion.
  End of story.

• priorities mixed up

  it really saddens me to see where the energy of the community is: it wasnt important to show up to the gathering in bais rivkah regarding the recent tradgedies for some reason the majority of healthy crown heights people thought it was too much to get themselves over there i guess the tradgedies didnt affect most of you because by not showing up and listening to 3 amazing speakers and getting chizuk you people are busy with STUPIDITIES! shame on all of you who were able to attend yet felt it wasnt important!

• Oifen Ganef brent dos Hitel

  If the people who bashed these yungeleit were totally Tznius themselves they would see that these young men are right. People living and/or coming to the Shchuna automatically think that everything is Kosher in all these Yiddishe stores. I praise these young men who have the guts to stand up and proclaim that not everything is Kosher and one can’t just walk into a store and buy anything.

• yosy

  KOL HAKAVOD!!!!
  SOME OF THE IDIOTS HERE THINK IT’S OK TO HAVE “PEOPLE”, (OR SOME OTHER GOYISHE) MAGAZINE IN THIER HOME – BUT….THEY DON’T HAVE TV/INTERNET!?
  HEY – MORONS! MAGAZINES CAN DO TEN THOUSAND MORE TIMES OF DAMAGE THAN ONE TV SHOW CAN!!!!!!!!
  TV/INTERNET-(NON CONTROLLED)& MAGAZINES ARE EQUALLY BAD.
  WOULD YOU SELL DRUGS FOR “PARNOSSA”!?
  WOULD YOU SELL GUNS FOR “PARNOSSA”?
  WOULD YOU SELL TRAIFA FOOD FOR PARNOSSA?
  IS BEING AN OIS VORF A “LIFESTYLE CHOICE”?!

• Kol Kivuda Bas Melech Pnima

  Why can’t we demand that our girls and women dress more like
  in Williamsburg, Monroe, Skvere etc. They are following the
  Shulchan Aruch and we are NOT! Its time to give the Rebbe
  nachas and don’t shame him by the lack of tznius in our
  community! The mosdos are not enforcing tznius outside of the
  classroom, and most of the heads of the mosdos do not dress according to Halacha outside the school. They give our girls two different messages, “do as I say and not as I do”. These
  kollel yungerleit are doing their little bit of a whole huge
  mess that our kehilla is in. Give them credit for trying and
  everyone one of us should do what we can to bring nachas to
  the Rebbe and bring Moshiach Now!

• Kol Hakovod!

  according to all the responses it seems that the 3 yungeleit were the ones that posted this article.
  They are to be commended for the way they went about this difficult task. B’mokoim sheain ish, unfortunattely, B”h some took it upon themselves to do all the dirty work and didn’t just post the names of the store owners but rather went to them directly.
  Yes, Hashem will repay you for standing up to what’s right! may it be a z’chus for yourselves and your families.
  Kol Hakovod!

• sara

  The magazines sold on Kingston are no different than those you can find in any library or online. I don’t think that’s a problem.

  I think it’s a valid request that those who service our community be requested to dress a certain way – does anyone remember the smocks that Shlomie had his employees wear at the Shuk?

• yates

  Can someone explain how this censorship is any different than the taliban and their rules? People either have free choice or they don’t. If you want to live under a rock, thats ok, as soon as you force someone else to live under a rock, not so fine. Shariya, (sic), I mean Halacha should not be brandished as a weapon, but rather its each individuals choice.

• Julia Dickinson

  Don’t behave towards each other,as we did towards you.It is unbecoming.

• dovid

  Raksin ,- you have my support !
  you are working hard , 12 hours a day , polite with everybody ,
  the store is clean , and cool in the summer .
  throw out this “tzadikim “ outside and tell them to go to apple drugs ,
  there is medication for not normal levels of testosterone ……
  they need a shot of that …..
  and no wonder , of them , -they have to come to learn early in the morning ,
  and learn hard , they get paid for that .
  instead they come late , stick a finger up theyer nose , look at the sealing ,
  and come up with ideas .
  they are not doing , what they are paid for .gneyva . period .
  if one want tznius , – don’t look at somebody`s wife ….
  ye , you “tzadik in laptes “.

• behind you all the way

  Tznius problem in Crown Heights!!!!!

  Good job SB Mendelson!!!

  we are behind you all the way

• you have it all wrong!

  Please people! You may be fully covered from head to toe but does whats inside count anymore? Some of the most “tznius” people Ive met in crown heights are also the ones that seem to be lacking in the qualities that attracted many of us to lubavitch. Im talking about the men that slam doors in front of the mothers pushing strollers instead of holding it open, the women that give nasty looks if youre skirt doesnt cover your knees, and the ones who dont help people if they are clearly outsiders.

  I say lets worry about whats inside first!!

• Stop this craziness!

  This will only backfire. It will be resented and only cause more kids to reject this way of life.

• to BCH from a 3rd generation Shliach

  1. Your tone was clearly condescending, and the readers did sense that.
  2. Hedging your consumer buying power isn’t hezek. Which world are you living in? Where in shulchan aruch does it state that you aren’t allowed to shop where you feel comfortable? Your hezek argument sounds flat out bizarre.
  3. Have a good Shabbos and Hatzlocho Rabba.

• Mom

  Not living in Crown Heights, I don’t know how these signatures negatively affected the store owners. But I do know that I tried my best to teach my children properly as they grew up and when my son and daughter moved to Crown Heights for the right reasons and stayed, my daughter was always properly tznius and my son wore a beard and hat. Now my daughter does not dress properly and my son trims and looks very cool.

  There are too many factors to say that one is the most important, but each thing makes a difference. When Lubavitcher adults make clear in the way they run their businesses that our customs are open for interpretation, it’s one more link on the golden chain we tried to forge that has been weakened.

  Perhaps all of the store owners would have adjusted their policies if they were spoken to privately, but I’d be surprised if that had not already been done.

  Everything our kids are exposed to plays a role in their outcome. Wouldn’t it be better if adult Chassidim weren’t contributing to their outside exposure?

• Machazir Atarah Lyoshnah

  this should all be done Bdarkei Noam Uvdarkei Shalom, as the Rebbe would have wanted.
  I agree with their concern for the community, and if the Rabbonim don’t take a stand then at least they are.
  are they going to go after shop owners that touch their beards?

• someone who cares

  I feel they should do what they feel like getting them more business!! i support post-mark-it

• just wondering .....

  Talking about magazines – I wonder how many families in Crown Heights get department store catalogs delivered to their homes by their friendly mailman? being that these catalogs show models wearing the item being sold, it seems to me there are many non-tzniuzdik pictures in them. whom should we complain to? the mailman?

• shloime freundlich

  Why is this group not concerned if store owners pay tax?
  There is a subculture in Crown Heights that has grown to critical mass ,they don’t care for any Vadd Tznius .Show them love and understanding ,sing a nigin with them tell them a dvar torah,invite them for Shabbos.There is something very immodest with men telling women how to dress .

• Toras Emes

  Rafi Katz “You are my hero” !!!!

• They DO teach the girls about it

  To those of you who say that the mosdos should teach more about it – THEY DO!!! and they get the same reaction as here – immature babyish “IT’S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! THIS ISN’T LUBAVITCH WAY!” it’s no wonder – look at the attitude their parents give off! Please realize that this is like Pinchas – he made many people angry but he DID THE RIGHT THING!!
  Boruch Hashem for those people who have the courage to nicely do something – and 500 signatures is A LOT!!

• i support a pro-tznius campaign.

  two wrongs don’t make a right!!!
  tznius,
  is crucial,
  is crucial,
  is crucial…
  and it does not make a difference what else a person might do…
  yes, they may have other areas wher they need to improve,
  but that doesn’t change the fact that
  you need to be tznius-
  in all areas of your life-
  dressing, thinking, seeing, hearing-

  PS Get the TVs OUT OF YOUR HOMES!!!
  The Rebbe said it is like bringing in a galach (non-jewish priest) with a cross into your home!!!

  It is IMPOSSIBLE for people not to be affected by what they see, do, think, and hear-
  so keep it according to what the Torah has told us is permitted and be praised and blessed with much health and happiness-begashmius and beruchnius!!!

• POSITVE not NEGATIVE

  As a tznius person myself and trying to educate my growing children about right from wrong, I am frustrated with the lack of tznius so apparent in the streets of CH where we live. That being said – I do not think that being ‘abusive’ is the way to get the matter resolved. The schools should be doing more to enforce the rules they already have – not let parents get away with breaking them. If the parents have issues, they should send their children to schools that agree with their way of wanting to bring up their children, they aren’t being forced to send their children to our schools. I always wonder what the mother says to her child who comes home from school on a hot summer day and is made to change into a short sleeved shirt and short socks – does that child not question what she was just taught in school? What’s the mother’s answer? Same goes for all us ‘tznius’ ones – it’s all about education. We go on shlichus and it’s the same thing, they see others doing differently that we do and they are given an explanation for it. If there is a strong POSITIVE foundation in education, the children will grow up doing the right thing. If they feel they are being policed and threatened to do as someone else says, they will only rebel.

• to positive not neg.

  When the Rebbe had to speak harshly he DIDN’T MINCE WORDS. neither do the chachamim…

• Crown Heightser

  These ‘enlightened’ posters on this site are a bunch of commies. It’s not ‘an abusive tactic’ to decide where to spend your OWN money. It’s very American. You trying to call us names and intimidate us for being so bold to decide where to spend our money IS VERY UNAMERICAN. You guys (and ladies) ought to look in the mirror to see who the real extremists are.

• it can be done

  We got out of Mitzraim b/c we kept our Jewish dress, language,and names. It’s worth our mesiros nefesh to get out of this horrible gallus.
  But it’s not a good time to be hard on each other. We could try to make the point to the shopkeepers, teachers, our fellow community members in a way that is sincere and not alienating. Regarding not being too hard – at this stage in the gallus if someone needs a distraction and reads Reader’s Digest or Time magazine I don’t think it’s a big averrah. And I appreciate when a store like Post-It is extra special in darchai noam. It adds to my experience of the goodness of Crown Heights.
  An aside – it’s become so common to see skirts above the knee worn with tights and boots. The tights underneath do not make it kosher.
  I once spoke to someone violating halcha (an extreme case- a youth being mechalel shabbos). I told him how much it hurts to see, we talked, and now we are on friendly basis.
  We need to have rachmonous on our neshamas and each other and do what we have to do.

• wow

  So 3 young MEN decide that in order for themselves to feel holy, they need to tell WOMEN what they are doing wrong?!!
  Seriously?!?
  Guys, if you want to feel holy, turn around and go back to your kolel and start paying attention to the torah you are learning.

  And I want to add, the aveiras of lashon hara of publicising which employees of which stores, and damaging parnasas of Jewish families- is that not something to think about???

• Yossel

  B“H

  In Williamsburg or other ”Frim“ (spelling intentional) communities, they would strongarm or ”muscle” storeowners to get their way.

  Here, a group of citizens are taking action that is entirely appropriate. No one is forcing the store owners to take any action. Some people are simply refusing to shop where they are offended. It’s my dollar and I have the right to spend it anywhere I want.

  I only shop in CH when necessary, I find the store owners too nasty and unhelpful, and the prices are high. Parking doesn’t exist also…

  PLEZE korrekt speling misteaks wen you rite on this bord cuz it’s a shande to cee such horible english speling and gramer (This IS America, not Israel or Russia!)

• Mind youre business

  They can sell what they want to sell its none of our business

• Tznius on the Inside!

  Man plans and G-d laughs.

• Simple Sam

  Everyone whoo signed the petition won’t be allowed to enter the stores without a permission slip from his mommy.

• to the hypocrites of ch!!!

  spray painting a picture like that just shows that the guy who did it has no self control from looking at the picture so he decided to spray it!!!

• Zman

  Why do crown heights community members wake up so late. snoozing doesn’t help we need to remember who we are and what we do is important and it effects the world. we have to show the world we are the chosen nation from Hashem and we should show the world what we are in the right way.

• avi

  KEEP IT UP YUNGERLEIT!!

  You have very good and important intentions. don’t be discouraged by anyone. just make sure to be sensitive and not aggressive. i think that with the right approach you can do much (just take the mimulo/gutleizer example)

  PEOPLE PASHUT DON’T KNOW WHATS AGAINST SHULCHAN ARUCH!!

• I know them

  BH

  I personally know these fine youngeleit. They are upright individuals and the future rabonim who are taking a stance now as they have before. This action is long overdue and they have tried other tactics that were less severe in the past. It seems that whatever hasnt worked until now perhaps has lead to this crucial moment when effecting the support of those shops which do not adhere to the basic laws of tznius must learn an important lesson. There are only 500 signers who endorsed this boycott that is not so bad. There’s still plenty more people in the shchuna who may chose to patronize the businesses despite their disregard to halacha.
  For those who chose to berate these courageous men for their brave stance in standing up for what is right and indeed ‘saving’ the community, and you chose to label them BT’s mocking their tremendous sacrifice to completely forfeit all the rubbish that you so desire and are thus offended by their calling your bluff, to you I have to say well they accept the term with pride and as a compliment. Perhaps one day you too will become a BT when you realize that your gezhe yichus is worthless if you don’t live up to the standards that were established by your progenitors. This is a Chabad community and the founders and leaders of Lubavitch followed the dictates of Shulchan Aruch; not that of YH. So if you think about that for a moment then maybe you will stop your audacious retort of offensive defense.

• different petition

  I think we need a petition that says we’ll only shop in stores with friendly, nice employees. i.e Post mark it and Apple drugs

• To you have it all wrong!

  You have it all wrong! wrote:

  Please people! You may be fully covered from head to toe but does whats inside count anymore? Some of the most “tznius” people Ive met in crown heights are also the ones that seem to be lacking in the qualities that attracted many of us to lubavitch. Im talking about the men that slam doors in front of the mothers pushing strollers instead of holding it open, the women that give nasty looks if youre skirt doesnt cover your knees, and the ones who dont help people if they are clearly outsiders.

  I say lets worry about whats inside first!!
  I wish we could comment right below posts, just wanted to say I agree with you completely!!!!

• Stop donating to the Kolel!

  No need to breed more of these extremist creatures…

  I know one of the young men involved in this scandal, and before he went to the Kolel, he was a normal person, just like the rest of us! Can you believe it!? Hard to imagine, right!?

• Mind youre business

  They can shop where they want to shop its none of our business

• chanie

  my take on the matter:

  1: WOMEN should be the ones telling women how to dress…it’s gross (and yes, immodest)for it to be coming from the men.

  2: this article was written very unprofessionally, with a glaring, unabashed bias. i call that bad journalism.

  3: the guys should not have been mentioned by name- it takes attention away from the real issue, which is, (as no one can deny) the unfortunate way many women in crown heights choose to dress.

  4: it’s beyond my comprehension that the fact that these ppl are bt or from bt families is a point mentioned as a negative aspect by some of the commentators. shame on you.

  5: lots of ch guys need to ditch the tight pants. they’re not cute.

  6: attention girls: when you get to a certain point, you will realize that it is much more attractive to dress modestly and beautifully.

  CASE IN POINT:
  while walking to a friend’s l’chaim, a Black guy around 25 years old called out to me from his car. “ ‘scuse me, miss” he said… i could tell from his tone that he wasn’t trying to flirt (i thought he was going to ask me for directions or something,) so i stopped and said, “yes?” he then told me: “when ya Jewish girls walk by, dressed all conservative.. ah want you to know, dat’s so beautiful!”

  when all guys and girls realize how true those words are, we’ll have begun making some progress in the tznius department of life.

  good shab :)

• A Tomim

  B”H

  I don’t understand why everyone thinks that this is a ‘williamsburg’ approach… Chassidei Lubavitch were always known for their ultra-strong kiyum haTorah v’Mitzvos, even to the level of Hungarians! (The proof being that the Minchas Elozar of Munkatch, which was in Hungary, called the Rebbe Rayatz the ‘Russisher Leib’ (Russian Lion) for standing up for Torah and Mitzvos and refusing to back down.

  The same applies here. If you realized the massive chilul Hashem that I personally have seen this issue cause, even in my country, Australia, people outside of Lubavitch speak about the lack of Tznius of Lubavitchers in CH and America…

  It’s about time someone came out strong against this… a little bit of K’naus (zealotry) is good once in a while… especially when noone else does anything about… Enough of the Baalebatishkeit! Get up and do something, instead of being mevatel zman and moishev laytzim by arguing on this wbsite… Go fight for the Rebbe and Torah!

  Remember Mivtzah Taharas Hamishpocha? that includes tznius…

• kh

  KOL HAKAVOD!!!!! in face of all the negative comments, i feel that i am obligated to comment and let you know that this is a great thing!!!

• Three yungerlite crying out for help

  Why doesn’t anyone see that he is crying out for help! For someone to resort to this is a sign of pain.

• How to figure this all out

  How to decide:
  There are many comments here and the article seems to take a side, the only way to decide is by seeing what kind of people support it. A group of respected calm people from all political spectrum’s came together to support this endeavor. for anyone who gives that a moments thought…

• Shlucha

  AS a Shlucha in a city where there’s very little Yiddishkeit and a real galus with a bunch of very non tzniusdike things all over , I look forward going to Crown Heights The Rebbe’s Schunah where there’s kosher food, places to buy Tznius clothes, Judaica shop etc. and it hurts me sometimes seeing the non tznius pictures or storeworkers etc. since on shlichus we are here telling people about Torah and mitzvos tznius etc. and since we have the emes at least storeowners, mechanchim, etc in Crown Heights should be a light onto the whole world. I feel what these kollel men are doing is EXCELLENT obviously with Yamin Mkarevet and Smoal Doche. We should remember that one of the merits we were redeemed from Mitzrayim is that we didn’t change our dress to be like the Goyim. Remember we are Am Segulah Am Kadosh. Lets be proud that we have the Truth!!!!!!!!

• dovid

  Raksin and apple drugs , – you have my support !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  ————————————————————

  this 3 , self made , muser zogers are charged ;

  1. disrupting normal business flow in two hard working yidishe stores = 2 counts .

  2. attempt to make less money , for two frum , sheymer shabes families =2 counts.

  3 .mvaze two nice , hard working yidn , in public = 2 counts .
  4. kfuy teyvo – this men give money to the koylel ( and other charities ) = 2 counts .

  5. all of the above is done with special hootzpe and ahzorius = 2 counts.

  6. operating this conduct without a rov`s instructions = 2 counts.

  7. impersonating and operating , as frum people = 2 counts.

  8. mvaze in public the good name`s of hard working yidishe tehter =10 counts .( bustards !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ).

  9. using the Shulhan – Oruh , for cover , to do neveyle deeds. 20 counts .

  10. making mahloykes between yidn = 10 counts.

  11.mvaze all the people who shop in this stores . =10 counts .

  ————————————————————

  sentencing ;

  1. Sunday – fast the whole day .

  2. at 1 PM . stay outside post mark and apple drugs , by the door`s and beg mehile from the owners .

  3. at the same time ask mehile from every costumer , that goes in or out , from this stores .

  4. at 4 PM. , bend over , put your heads between your legs and kiss your own tuh–s .

  5. go to mikve for 500 twiles .

  6. you can eat after mayriv .

  7. stay under supervision of a good head doctor .

  8. take your medication on time .

  9. when you hear voices , talking to you , – call hatzole .

• great

  i like these 3 dudes!

  i’m NOT all that religious myself. though,

  i wish them good luck! using the old-mighty-dollar to restore some DIGNITY n RESPECT to my REBBY’s home-community!

  to u3 brave souls, i say: GO GO GO GETTUM!! ;)

  ps
  u dont haveto be orthodox to be annoyed by constant distractions by self-loathing-provocative maidelech!

• Halocha is Halocha

  The Following is an e-mail I received from the Tznius Campaign

  B”H
  Dear Rabbi / Mr., Sheyichye’

  This is regarding the Mivtza Tznius which is currently underway in our Shchuna, Baruch Hashem.

  The Letter that you signed signed along with B’erech 500 other Heads of Families here in CH. including Rabbi Osdaba, Rabbi Schwei, Rabbi Heller, Rabbi Majeski plus many other chashuve rabbanim, was brought to several stores in the community, and Baruch Hashem the communal voice had an extremely positive effect on most places visited.

  It should be reiterated, that this is an issue which exists on a much broader scale than just in stores. However, a public establishment which literally advertises such materials and behavior is a major priority to address; to open one’s doors and publicly display a lack of standards befitting our community is showing that this is accepted and tolerated and doesn’t affect their parnassa.
  People are expected to dress like they are in a sacred community, but it must look like one. When one looks at the very bricks and mortar of the community, i.e. the stores, and one sees hepech d’kdusha, it invites similar behavior.
  Therefore, it was apparent that it must be brought to their attention a conclusive testimony how people feel about this, and how it can affect where people choose to shop.

  These stores, in a very respectful fashion had it brought to their attention our common voice. Here is a list of which stores were visited so far,

  Apple Drugs
  Post-Mark-It
  Sunshine Pharmacy
  Visionsite optical
  The ‘Moshiach barber’ (Kingston bet. President and Carrol)
  Seeview Optical
  Crown Heights shipping center (Albany between Empire and Lefferts)

  We would like to congratulate and thank,
  Apple Drugs
  Sunshine Pharmacy
  The Moshiach Barber

  For their support of these issues, and their compliance to upgrade to a Tznius environment,
  and to

  SeaView Optical
  CH Shipping center

  For their commitment to continue to maintain what is already a Tznius environment.
  May the Aybishter bless them with success.

  Let us send a clear message to all the stores, that we live by these standards, and that we shop by them, and not Ch”V as one store put it, “noone cares, leave it alone, a cancer is better left untouched.”, but rather as sunshine pharmacy said, “of course! this is the right thing, thank you so much for telling me!” We do care, we are a Chassidic community and although it is difficult at times to speak up and say what must be said, we must ensure we don’t send mixed messages, but instead, live by what we believe and teach to our children.

  May the Aybishter bless us that we should succeed as a community to ensure “Ve’haya Machanecha Kadosh” – our community should be holy.

  Sholom Ber Mendelson and Rafael Katz
  on behalf of Mivtza Tznius

  Note: A special hakaras hatov goes to Rabbi Raitport of Seeview Optical, who when offered by a prestigious eyeglass brand to carry their product with a condition that he portray their advertising materials and posters, he declined their product rather than compromise ch”v the standards he lives by.

  Please forward this email to everyone you know who lives in the shchuna, and may of not had the opportunity yet to hear about this mivtza

• Yosef Yitzchak Ha-cohen.

  The unfortunate truth of the matter is that Manhattan rents are still very high, its only a matter of time before the gentrification continues to spread and white affluent new yorkers will be living and shopping on kingston avenue. This is the new reality whether you choose to accept it or not. Therefore it makes more economic sense for the store owners of kingston avenue to provide both yiddish and secular material. Soon we wont be worried about the crown heights girls hem line, but rather the shicksa in her mini-skirt. Wake up and smell the coffee.

• anon

  Guys, Keep up the good work, continue to do it in the respectful way you have been doing it until now. the outrage you are seeing in some of these nasty comments is because they know you’re right and are scared they will actually be held accountable for their actions for once.

• Innocent bystander

  Hey everyone: no one cares about ur two cents. If ur not in the petition or a shop owner, why don’t u go do something proactive like these three guys insteat of getting into things that u aren’t involved in and can’t affect?

• Men Tznius

  Men have a new meshugaas, to open the second botton of the shirt. this is also something wrong. It should also be adressed, besides the women tznius.

• Sarah

  It’s erev Yud Shevat.

  Hook up your dvd player, drop in the latest living Torah and listen to the Rebbe’s original Basei Legani recording. THANK YOU JEM for giving us the chance to relive the Rebbe’s opening salvo on a world devoid of G-dliness, a world where – the Rebbe’s voice breaks and you hear him sob – they don’t know Aleph Beis.

  Is Crown Heights today the legacy of our beloved Rebbe?

  That we are living/educating/working in a community where standards in Tznius have fallen to the point where Anash have to step in and do something radical to right the wrong?

  Remember, the Rebbe keeps on saying in the maamar- the one who is the seventh, is the seventh whether he deserves it or not. He’s the seventh because he is six removed from the first person. Of course this was the Rebbe’s modesty, but it’s also his message to us, almost 16 years from his leaving this physical world: We have the job of bringing Moshiach, whether we are that page, want to be on that page or even near that book at all… We don’t have a choice. It’s our inheritance. The Rebbe was telling us you DO what you are called to do, even if you are worthless, and have PROOF of your worthlessness. I think that covers all of us on here, so why can’t we push ourselves, past our Yetzer, pass our wannabecool stupidity, and own up to the task on hand?
  Let’s make it happen in 5770! We owe it to the Rebbe.
  Ad Mosai? Ad Mosai? Ad Mosai? Moshiach NOW!

  And if it takes some brave yungerlite to try to right things, maybe they could have done it in a nicer way – but don’t shoot the messenger. LISTEN and take heed! And let’s all make a change this Yud Shevat and return to that old school purity of what being Chassidishe means: 100% devoted to Halacha, to Chassidus and to the Rebbe.

• Shlucha

  To S.B.: Your comment about being annoyed & frustrated with the poor english skills displayed in comments is really out of touch and should not be commented here of all sites, a Lubavitcher website. The Rebbe clearly vocally spoke on his dismay with a learning English, so cut some slack to the mispelling and figure out what they are trying to say which can’t be that difficult.
  While I don’t like the fact that it has come to petitions and boycots, the reality is also that it’s very unfortunate what is going on in the Chabad Schunah of Kan Tziva. If one personally feels the need or desire for un-Kosher reading…yes, sorry, you will have to pay the price as well, and sift thru the garbage of Utica Ave. that’s a choice you have made and will have to deal with. There should be a dress-code for employees just like I have a conservative dress-code for our secretary, this should be self-understood. If you want to service & reap business from this Frum community you should be sensitive to the fact that you and your community not be serviced with a movie-night or other unappropriate for CH program. This is where you run your business so it should be suited to this Torah observant & more so Chassidic observant way of life. It should not have come to these Taliban-like petitions but unfortunately we are guilty of created this need.

• to chanie

  nice comment! well said! totaly agree! couldent get any more clearer then that! i cant wait to see the day when theese imodest women will dress modestly! think of the brochos the`l get when they do, as the rebbe promises!! (-sholom bayis, health, parnasa and nachas!! helllooo!? what in the freaken world are you waiting for!? .. get real, get a life, and get JEWISH!!!)

• youknowwhoiam

  1st, you all suck at spelling.

  2nd, showing a movie in public is horribly wrong because you are helping others sin.

  3rd, petitions should only be used as a last resort, meaning after all civilised methods of persuasion failed.Obviously starting first with going to the owner directly and talking to him/her about it.

  4th,vandalising a sign in public property is against both civil and torah law.

  5th,store owners have a right to employ whoever they want, and you have a right to boycott(avoid) their store.

  6th,if your wondering why i am so smart and educated it’s because I don’t come from crown heights.

• AnonEmus

  I’m not that old, in fact I’m maybe 20 or 30 yrs younger than most of you
  In post mark it, sometimes I flip thru some of those magazines – the ones ur all furious about- and reb raksin, may he live and be well, always tells me to put them down.I have, do, and will read those magazines and must say some lubavs act and dress 1000 times worse than celebs. I respect R’ Raksin for telling me to put them down & my shopping expiriences at post mark it have always been delightful so..Keep shoppin’ at post mark it, the ultimate best store on Kingston. (4 u gitty raksin! :))

  To all kolel petition collectors- clearly noone feels the way u do and No one is abiding ur laws so I have two solutions for u:
  -step out of ur box and face reality: CH will always be the way that exists. Too bad if you don’t like and approve of it..which brings me to solution 2..
  -gather your kolel collegues and move to williamsburg where u can set up a lubavitch mini- meah-shearim. Best of luck with that.

  Mark my word, without some drastic changes, the shechunah will remain the way it is.

• Yud Shvat spirit

  Kol Hakovoad to the kollel men who are taking this stand!
  I find it so shocking to be exposed to the venom some of you posters have towards baale teshuvah, that our Rebbe dedicated his ENTIRE nesius to, which we are now celebrating tomorrow night 59 years of! It is very telling how the love the temimim had for one another did not get transmitted to your generation, great and almighty gezhe FFB.
  The Rebbe loves us ALL. Get over it.

• giving my hunble opinion

  what everyone isent realizing is that thair focusing so much on the tznius that the girls of crown heights gee yelled at for he ay they dressnd feel manipulaatd. if they ad someone they can talk to and the supoort of a responsible caring adult they wd express themselves by talking not by dressing inapropriatly. if youwant them to stennd respct you they parents or ever youure they need to feel you repect them for w they are or o thair not

• Stop this craziness

  Stop trying to tell other people what to do. It is none of your business. If it bothers you, move to Williamsburg…

• anon

  vehaya machanecha kadosh
  vehaya machanecha kadosh
  KADOSH KADOSH KADOSH!!!!!!

  Enough said?!!!!!

  Most likely half the lubavitchers reading this don’t even know what that means
  Hopefully the store owners reading this comment will

• t s

  Stories like these make me want to open a store just to sell stuff that people tell me I can’t sell.

  if people don’t want to but from a store that has things they don’t like they vote with their feet.

  anyone who tries to force someone out of business because that person is doing something they don’t like probably has some skeletons in his/her closet.

  the only honorable way to influence your society is to model what you want in a way that proves to and attract all of that society that your way is superior, not by trying to muscle down the other person who display that which you think is bad.

• tee ess

  Another Snake and Scorpion filling the void of the pit which is now empty.

  There will soon be a patrol of what you may sell and display in your store as far as health, kashrus, music, and pricing. They will branch out to your sidewalk and what YOU may wear and do, and then branch into your home.

  It’s similar to the spread of what government wishes to dictate in the name of democracy.

  A society that is soft and hollow will embrace such dictatorship in the name of “leadership”, and allow themselves to be controlled. Which they in fact deserve.

  Will be interesting to see whether the young generation will remain fragmented and live in a socially separate “Crown Heights” or will gel somewhat and butt heads with this new Talibinistic spin.

  Lock n Load.

• tt ss

  I wonder if “some Rabbi” in perhaps the kollel would like to be similar to a, but not THE, rebbe, but in a silent powerful role, behind a loud front band of thug chassidim/enforcers.

  yeah. there’s a new sheriff in town.

  fools. there is no town.

• Levi Wilschanski

  To Simcha:
  I believe it means there is alot us “shpitz chabad” can learn from the BTs…
  Keep up the good work guys… very soon the Rebbe will be walking down the streets of a crown heights he recognizes..

• Great Job Kolel

  The Ungerlite ar right

  The situation here has gon out of control!

  not every idiot has the right to do/sell whatever they want.

  Imangin a movie rental store will open – will you say start at home??

  There needs to be a bit law and order –

  Not every idiot who will make money from selling “illegal” material should open shop on Kingston Ave.

  If people want to buy dirty magazines they could go ELSEWHERE!

• going too far

  the rebbetzin read all of the newspaper’s and watched TV

  the rebbe told the girls in machon channa to have radio’s in their rooms

  we are not against the secular world

• observer

  I have a question,
  who elected these 3 people? If a person sees something wrong in a store/school/shul the proper way to deal with it is, talk to the person/store owner/teacher or who ever it happens to be privately/quietly and tell that person your concerns. I should not have to add but will respectfully.

  A few years ago there were people up state NY (K.Y.) who stated to act like the Taliban,braking windows, fire bombing houses/stores spray painting cars all in the so called “ good cause” be very careful were you go with this, once you start down this path…….

  to Esquire, Montreal who wrote:
  I agree with Mr. Raksin’s observation. While the quest for tzinus is justified and long overdue, the manners in which it is sought and applied are counter-productive. As a consequence to such well-meaning but misdirected vigilanteeism, more harm than good will result. Ultimately, no one will be convinced by cajoling and bulling. On the contrary, such inappropriate behaviour will just turn people off or against one another. Our generation may be misguided but rough-handed tactics will not give us the insight and sensitivity to Torah thinking we desperately need. Perhaps, with gentle guidance good can be accomplished. B’darkay noam Ub’darkay shalom is always the best way.
  I agree with 100%

• been there, done that 10 yrs ago

  There is so much emotion in each letter that has been written. the point which we stand at now, is not who is right or who is wrong, what should have or should not have been done. tznius right now is TERRIBLE in crown heights. and SOMETHING has to be done. unfortunately, when someone does something, there will always be complaints, (especially those who feel that they are victims of “the crime”). if you dress tzniusdik, and your store is “tzniusdik”, then Kol Hakovod to you. and if you’re not, stop criticizing and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!! The truth does hurt, but the truth has to come out. Not always is it comfortable to hear it, but it still needs to be said.
  when I got married 10 years ago, I wrote a letter to 3 stores in the community, asking them to strengthen the tznius in their stores. there was no change. well, it’s 10 years later and it’s about time someone is making a shturem. You may not like the approach, but oh well. somethings you might just not like. Let’s just look at what they want to accomplish, and let’s try all to reach that goal, in our personal lives, our communal lives, etc. in our each individual way.

• OH MY GOD DID YOU HEAR???????

  BREAKING NEWS!!!

  TZNIUS VAAD LEADER BUSTED LOOKING AT A WOMANS MAGAZINE IN MONTREAL AND HAS THEREFORE BEEN KICKED OUT.

  The leader denied the facts and when busted had given a false name, but still he is officially out of the TZNIUS PATROL.

  The leader is now set to defend himself by opening another RIVAL patrol with the intent to “create a pritzus free neighborhood” and SHUT THE OTHER ONE DOWN
  HMMmmmmm doesnt that sound familiar

• Crown Heights, the rebbes schunah????

  This is exactly what they wanted, to raise an awareness, to get people excited and talking about it.
  It will bring an awareness to these places like mimulo and the sort, when they do controversial things it wont be tolerated.

  Kol Hakaovad for standing up for the Rebbes schunah!
  The real tzugekumenars are the ones showing up with this new found untznius dress code!

  Yasher koach for not letting Tzugekumeners take over our neighborhood

• grew up in CH but can-t recognize it now

  I do not live in CH but am on Shlichus in a very not tzinusdike place. When my kids come here they have so many questions that I can not answer. I grew up in CH but it is not the CH that I grew up in. My children know that we are different. That the way these other people in our town dress has nothing to do with us, just as we can not eat in their homes. I want to know who brought all the garbage into CH? I admit that now our kids from ffb homes are into this and maybe even “shtig” in this non tznius, goyishe music, etc. etc. The question is who brought it into CH to begin with? Who brought this in and so our kids think it is ok to act, dress like this.
  Our kids did not see this in the original Lubavitcher community in CH. My parents did not dress or even know about this – we knew goyim were different and we were different. However, when you bring in into the community different elements, our kids are affected and even become frumer than the pope.
  Our kids see this to day in their parent’s dress (both father and mother). No one tells them that it is wrong as I tell my children in our community. NO we do not dress, eat, act etc. like this.
  You need people who are respected to make a difference.You need teachers to dress, act properly so the kids can copy them.

• F.B

  It appears there is some confusion from reading the comments. I would like to make some clarifications.

  Yes Rabbi Heller and Rabonim do endorse this and signed in fact Rabbi Hellers signature was the first on the list. so all those comments saying who do these 3 men think they are should be discarded.

  Where is everyone getting the information that they are BT’s???? even if they were (one of them became frum very young the rest are FFB-but that’s not the point!) how do you have the right to put them down?? I find it extremely offensive and I think when people see that approach they could get put off by Lubavitch. Lubavitch is all about welcoming in others. That comment that said “3 men who decided to become frum yesterday” is completely uncalled and rude and not even true!! In fact a large percentage of Lubavitch now are made up of BT’s. (BTW I am not a BT nor do I come from them, however I still have the sensitivity and think you and I can all learn a lot from them for having chosen the correct path they are on a very high level and should be respected!)

  What makes you all think the Rebbe wouldn’t approve? there has already been 2 comments quoting a gemarah the Rebbe brought out learning that it is our approach to be strong in proclaiming Tzniyus! But of course you are all so busy overlooking anything that has some truth in it and would rather continue believing in the lies to stir things up just to save yourselves as you know your wrong!

  Go learn your facts and research the story properly before you start commenting and please don’t spread lies when you have no source!!

• a proud Jew

  I know these young men & they most definitely work on themselves, & treat their wives & kid(s) well too, according to Torah. they r not doing this because ‘they think’ it should be done, they actually consulted with rabbonim & mashpiim every step of the way.
  kol hakavod to all the resistance as it only shows how positive this campaign is. just like a plane can’t fly wothout resistance, & a fish can’t swim without resistance…same here

• To Tee Ess

  The “they” you refer to who will dictate what you can do in and out of your home and every aspect of your life is called TORAH which does EXACTLY THAT- dictates EXACTLY.

• B.W. - Crown Heights

  The Rebbe never tolerated the notion of lowering halachik standards. Rather, the Rebbe was sensitive to those raised in non observant homes and embraced them. Therefore as people came To CH from those non observant homes on the ASCENSION in their yiddishkeit, the Rebbe lovingly overlooked their halachik deficiencies (obviously hoping that eventually they will come to see the importance of observing halacha to its fullest).

  To think that the Rebbe would endorse those coming from an FFB background, to lower their halachik standards, is absurd. Sure the Rebbe never threw them out of Lubavitch, because the Rebbe embraced all no matter how fargrebt, but to make a philosophy out of it, that Chabad ought to resemble a Modern Orthodox neighborhood…!?

• Ayin Tov, Leiv Tov

  I am writing this as someone who knows Sholom Mendelson personally and has for quite some time. I can attest to his being a yiras shomayim and a baal chesed. He has smicho from Lubavitch yeshiva, is an ffb (not that it matters) learns b’hasmodoh and has excellent midos. He would never speak of baalei teshuva the way some of the above comments have done. One of the stories that best illustrates his character is once when he was walking down Kingston Avenue and saw a young African American woman struggling to carry a chest of drawers down the street. He stopped, picked up the piece of furniture and carried it for the woman all the way down to Lefferts Ave. He has taught both children and young boys in yeshiva and was a camp director and activities director in Lubavitch camps around the world, including Ukraine, etc. He was so well-loved that the children in Ukraine would run to greet him when he would arrive, because they remembered him from the previous Pesach. He would speak to them in Russian and he even arranged for brissim of boys when he was there.

  It was not right for the person who wrote the above article to mention the names of those who organized the petition. Al pi halocho this was not permissible to do – one may not knowingly smear the name or reputation of another person,
  It is because his name (and the names of the other yungeleit) were mentioned that makes it necessary to speak up regarding his character and yiras shomayim (and I’m sure he would be very uncomfortable about being praised).

  The very fact that he did not want to speak in his own defense shows that he is not interested in increasing machloket – he just wants to improve the situation in the community – with the guidance and approval of the rabbonim, as was mentioned above.

  Lastly,but importantly: There is no doubt that all of us can look back to when we were younger (for those of us in the over-30 age bracket) and see how we did things differently when we were younger than we would have now that we are older.Young people have a tendency to do things in a more strong-minded and assertive way, whereas when we get older we are more cautious of all of the ramifications and tend to take a more incremental and softer approach. Having said that – we also become more complacent when we are older and more cautious -and sometimes this means that nothing gets done at all.

  So while the comments about the approach being a bit aggressive 1) I’m sure it was not meant to be negative in any way 2) This is how young people get things done – in a bit of a ‘gung-ho’ way, so lets try to be understanding of this 3) often those who are more caurious wind up not taking on a problem at all.

  For those who say that there are more important issues in CH than tznius (poverty, teen drug use, domestic abuse, etc, etc) that’s fine – take those issues on and do something about them, for goodness sake! Every one has something that is pogeiah by them and rather than criticize what is a priority for another person, take on the issue that is a priority for you and do something about it!

  Let’s all try to judge those who are trying to make positive changes l’kav zechus and if we have a good peice of advice for them, give it b’leiv tov and not in a spirit of criticism or judgment. Let’s have the ahavas yisroel that we want everyone else to have.

• nonCH

  Comments on crownheights.info show me that anyone who wants to read, tznius material or not, will be doing their spelling and grammar a favor that the schools clearly are not providing.

• Hold on

  F.B. Wrote “It appears there is some confusion from reading the comments. I would like to make some clarifications.

  Yes Rabbi Heller and Rabonim do endorse this and signed in fact Rabbi Hellers signature was the first on the list. so all those comments saying who do these 3 men think they are should be discarded.”

  It’s interesting that you made a point of letting everyone know that Rabbi Heller was the first to sign. I personally witnessed (not hearsay – I saw with my own eyes) how Rabbi Heller is a regular customer at Post Mark-It. I have shopped right next to him before this petition went into effect and AFTER he signed it as well. How can it be that he patronized Post Mark-It after he specifically signed his approval of this endeavor? This means that the entire shpiel doesn’t have 2 legs to stand on and is fraudulent. There is no validity to it if the ones signing do not adhere to what it proclaims.

  Is the community lacking in tznius? YES! Do two wrongs make a right? NO! Let’s not slander and target others out of desperation.

• Lets get the facts straight

  To hold on, U write “I personally witnessed (not hearsay – I saw with my own eyes) how Rabbi Heller is a regular customer at Post Mark-It. I have shopped right next to him before this petition went into effect and AFTER he signed it as well. How can it be that he patronized Post Mark-It after he specifically signed his approval of this endeavor?”

  I hold highly of Rabbi Heller and I respect him. It’s apparent that its OK to shop @ Post Mark-It if Rabbi Heller does. Thanks for the important info.

• ad mosai

  What is going on here?! the rebbe never told women to only wear black or to only wear pleats, all he asked of us is to follow the basic laws of tznius, and we can’t do that?!!how low can we fall? how will moshiach come like this?

• ADP

  Yesher Koach to these people. Chabad’s foundation is in Crown Heights and it needs a Solid foundation. We aren’t talking about tinik shenishba people who grew up in a reform community. We are talking about chassidim, it bothers me in Crown Heights seeing young girls not dressed appropriatly, take the bus to Willaimsberg and its not an issue there.

• Mandy

  I’m glad you posted this. I will not be shopping in those stores which signed this petition anytime soon. Forget about the tznius and start worrying about paying your workers on time ( min hatorah) and paying them on the books and following dina demalchusa dina. This obssession with tznius is out of hand.

• Shalom

  Good for them! I have a daughter who cites as “Proof” why she doesn’t need to dress normally (tznius) as “Tottie, just look on kingston what everyone is wearing”.

  I gave her the old: “If everyone is jumping off the Brooklyn Bridge” speach, but her point has truth to it.
  If we cannot as a community enforce some standard of tznius, then our children will grow to live like goyim as is happening now. Perhaps the younger people who wrote this article are up in arms over “How dare they”. But sir, wait until YOU have a daughte and she starts to dress and act like…
  So then, you too will apprectiate the efforts (if a bit zealous, but well-intentioned) of our young people who see a real problem.