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Video: Debate over Secular Education at Yeshivas

In a video interview released today on BRIC TV, a channel discussing issues of interest to Brooklyn residents, three panelists: Naftali Moster, founder of YAFFED, Amy Sara Clark, editor of The Jewish Week, and community activist Ezra Friedlander tackled the hot-button issue of secular education in Chasidic Yeshivas – or the alleged lack thereof.

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16 Comments

  • Faithful Jew

    This whole discussion is absolute bunk, just for the record there are close to 4000 Chabad houses which are run by Shluchim who act as CEO’s, COO’s, CFO’s, architects, managers, builders, fundraisers, teachers, marriage counselors, psychologists, speakers and the list goes on and on and on, and all the professionally trained lawyers, doctors, accountants, scientists and on and on flock to them and either work for them or they support them with all their heart and soul and money, so what exactly are these Shluchim missing in their education?

    I know hundreds of Satmar and Bobov and Skver and Klausenburg Chassidim who own major businesses and employ hundreds of workers who did finish high school but when they needed a job they had to go to the uneducated Chossid for a job.

    Chassidim are the biggest donors to charity, so can you tell me how do they make it so that they can give so much money for Tzedaka if as you claim they couldn’t earn a living due to their inferior education?

    I know, I know, and here you go, the Chassidim have the poorest community in places like KJ or BP, etc. etc., but here again you’re completely off base, due to the large families which are concentrated in densely populated community in small areas it seems like there are proportionally a lot more poor families when in reality when you’ll compare to any other community with all the dynamics of family size and lifestyle you’ll find the others of equal proportion or even more poor families.

    In addition, the Chassidic community has its own network of employment in education and community organization and locally owned businesses like Kosher food production and clothes manufacturing or B&H or Dynatron and dozens of different employment opportunities which don’t require the education that these people advocate.

    Then you have many people who choose a lifestyle that doesn’t require wasting so many years to learn stuff that will never be needed in their life, and if one day they will need it they can always take the required courses as needed. The debaters on this show are the best examples as Mr. Friedlander pointed out that both he and his counterpart seem to be managing pretty well.

    And let’s not forget all the young entrepreneurs that we keep hearing about who never got the “proper” education and when they decided to become millionaires they found their way to go for it and get it and then go on to support the Yeshivas that educated them “inferiorly”.

    This has also to do with the entire Chassidic lifestyle of having large families (opposite to planned parenthood) and the refusal of government to fund Yeshivas (separation of state & religion hoax) which basically sets up the Chassidic community against the secular community at the core of its being, so in my opinion this borders on a plain and simple attack on Chassidim and their lifestyle, period.

    FYI, I never had a secular education and I’m an on demand public speaker, writer and counselor, advisor, lawyer (not in court) and teacher to many bigwigs in secular society, I run a Hollywood based type of company (no I won’t give myself away) and I always laugh with my employees how I the uneducated one is the employer who provides for a livelihood for these educated professionals with diploma’s in one hand and an outstretched hand to the uneducated when it comes to make a living.

    No question the Rebbe knew what he said that’s it’s a total waste of time to learn all this stuff because at the end of the day Hashem is the decider as to who will earn a living and who will need to come on to others.

  • Ummmm...

    Neither way is really the Lubavitch approach….
    We are not meant to spend a young Yiddishe boys time on learning subjects which he MIGHT need 15 years down the line to support his family…

    Build him a strong Yiddishe Chinuch when his mind is soft and later on in life he can work on his direct line of Parnasa and he’ll study the subjects he needs…

  • faithful jew

    wow, thnx for that articulate, well thought out, arguement
    i dont happen to agree with everyhting u said but i apreciate the logi and the clear , alm way you presented your ideahs. good job

  • Look into muslim education

    If Muslims are allowed to have their private schools without outside government interference, then we are allowed to enforce the education methods that we know is right.
    BTW, I am a girl and had a secular education and always had difficulty with math. So butt out of the yeshiva business.

  • Myth

    Oh yeah! Higher education is the way to go!

    Secular education will just shackle you with HUGE DEBT for the first 30 years of your working life.
    Look at all the goyiim who are crippled by student loans who attended the BEST colleges
    Go to Yeshiva, work hard, believe in G-d… He’ll take care of you

  • Citizen Berel

    Overwhelming majority of college graduates can not support a 7-10 member family.

    The goyim are as worried about parnoso as are these moisrim.

    There is no solution to the devaluation of human input into the economy. It is it was it is.

    It’s a shverer golus and SUNY Downstate ain’t no redemption.

    We do the best we can and live on miracles.

    Learn Torah, do Mitzvos and Traact Gut.

    :)

  • YAFFED = Rodfim!

    If the people who founded/run YAFFED want to destroy their own children with secular education, maybe they have a right to do that (even that is questionable), but they definitely have no right to be Roidef kosher Moisdos Chinuch.

    • Faithful Jew

      To which the Rebbe replied, that’s why I have the authority to tell you that your’e not allowed to go, because I was there and I know what it’s all about.

      And another time the Rebbe said, if one person jumps off the roof and survives doesn’t mean that you who follows will survive as well.

  • Levi

    How about learning Secular Studies to help advance knowledge and development in this world. We would not have computers, medications, etc.. if not for the person who studied secular studies.

    • Faithful Jew

      That job is not given to a Jew who keeps Torah and Mitzvos, for this there are plenty of Goyim who can do this job without our interference.

      As the Alter Rebbe writes in Tanya (perek 8) that studying Chochmos of the world is Metame your Chaba”d and therefore it’s forbidden, with two exceptions 1) when you need it for your job (which you don’t need when you’re in elementary or in high school or your four years of college) so you can take the necessary course as needed. 2) If you are someone like the Rambam and the Ramban (which most likely applies to the Rebbe, as the previous guy asked).

  • to 10

    Frum yiden are not even 1÷ of the population without our help the world will advance just fine from a tech point of veiw