Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jews protested Monday in Jerusalem against attempts to draft members of the 'Haredi' community into the Israeli military.
Thousands Protest in Jerusalem over Impeding Draft
Thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jews protested Monday in Jerusalem against attempts to draft members of the ‘Haredi’ community into the Israeli military.
The government is trying to find a formula to obligate ultra-Orthodox Jews to serve in the military before a court-determined Aug. 1 deadline. The current law largely exempts the community from military service. That infuriates many Israelis, since almost all others are required to serve. Israel’s Supreme Court ruled the law must be revised.
In the ultra-Orthodox neighborhood of Mea Shearim, children wearing handcuffs and signs reading “save me” marched the streets Monday. The ultra-Orthodox fear assimilation in the secular military and claim they are serving the state by serving God in prayer and study.
A high-profile panel aimed at finding a compromise was recently disbanded.
Moshe
There is no legitimate reason why secular jews and others should risk their lives for the State of Israel and while others ( Haredim) do not. Their blood is not holier. It is the responsibility of the entire Jewish people, secular or orthodox, to protect, and if necessary, die protecting the people of Israel. If the Haredim want to learn Torah, they can do so for a few hours a day, in addition to serving in the IDF.
Mitnagid
“Save me”??????Don’t they realize that our ‘cousins’ the descendants of Ishmael who don’t exactly love us actually have fighting as part of their theology and have many clerics who personally fight the “infidels”?Dark times ahead……
The free ride is over!!
Very simple solution. Those that don’t serve should not be subsidized by govt. Enough of the majority of them who live of the fat of the land.
DaasTorah
Want to live in Israel? You’ll need to serve in the army. Think you’re something special and shouldn’t have to serve? Too bad.
The Rebbe Says
to all you geniuses out there…. watch this!
http://vimeo.com/45637556
Andrea Schonberger
What about volunteer community service instead? Volunteering in hospitals, senior citizen/community centers, food banks, schools, youth groups, animal shelters is still serving your country and these organizations always need the help. It’s either that or the army. One must be a good citizen and help your country when/where they need it.
Mendy Hecht
Excuse me, but to you guys running your mouths about how bad the “Haredim” are, unless you’re just as biased and bigoted as you think they are, open your minds here. Understand that these people are the ideological heirs to a movement and community that was well established in Jerusalem well before the existence of the State of Israel (as opposed to the British and, before that, the Turks) and which rejected the notion of Zionist nationalism from the get-go.
In short, they don’t recognize the Jewish State, and never have.
If the State of Israel wants to be what it purports to be for Jews not just in the Holy Land but everywhere, then it should not be telling Jews what they need to be doing or not doing, even if they happen to be living on State of Israel soil.
To put it otherwise: This community sees itself as no different than any other Diaspora community in, say, Canada or Switzerland, in which they, as exiles, are subject to the laws of the government of Canada or Switzerland (so long as they do not require them to violate the Torah). They don’t recognize the Zionist take on redemption, that now we have come home and we have our own country. To them, that’s the height of heresy–what, you don’t trust God to bring Moshiach?! You have to put together an army and create your own country?!
Yes, we as Lubavitchers don’t follow this philosophy, and we support a strong Jewish sovereignty over the Holy Land–including serving in the military that protects it as a matter of halachah, not Zionism–but what this community represents is the classic exile purism, and it should be respected even as it is disagreed with.
Milhouse
#1, How dare you openly disagree with the Rebbe on a Lubavitcher web site?
#3, What subsidies? The Eidah doesn’t take any money from the medinah.
#4, “daas torah”?! The Torah says the opposite. And so did the Rebbe.
Roch
#4….I agree!
Anon
Is chabad not charedi. Why have an article deriding ultra orthodox. They mean you. Chabad also does not go to army until after yeshiva. Do you want to be fair to all and go to army at 18 like all Israeli Citizens. What happens to Tomchei Tmimim. Oh are you different. Be very careful what you wish for. The statua quo worked well for Chabad. Those who wanted went and those who did not either legitimately learnt in Tomchei or faked it till kvutza and just dis not return then or found some other petur. This new law will require all bochurim and bochuros to go to army or sherut leumi at 18. Is that what you want? Think before you jump on eother bandwagon.
Kop Doktar
If all chareidim need to serve a couple of years in the army, it is only fair that all chilonim must serve a couple of years in Yeshiva!
tEFIILA tZEDOKO
It is amazing how they manage to take off time from learning to protest . Maybe they should sit extra hours learning and davening ,and surely the Aibishters plan will Happen……
They are a Jewish Joke
To Big Brave Milhouse writing from the USA.
I would love to see you in Israel being attacked by arabs while your Haredim friends hide or run away.
Yes they are “Pure” Pure cowards!
Dovid
The fact is 65% of harerdim do not work, this is not funded alone by tzadaka. The subsidies haredim get is a child allowance and subsidized healthcare. Those both add up to a lot of money. Further Bibi prior to this has been working to increase voluntary haredi enlistment. One area is a program in intel for haredim that takes into account haredi needs with separation of the sexes. As stated above there is also sherut leumi which would be working in hospitals ect. Many of these programs are day jobs and haredim can still come home to bnei barak, or stay in Jerusalem and go home to learn and daven in their beis hamadrash. Yes haredim do not think of Zionism as part of the geula. But do you think if Switzerland was surrounded by unstable regimes and people who do not recognize it’s existance that Swiss haredim would get a pass on a mandatory draft? Sorry not likely. If you want to have 65% of your community not work and pretend to learn in kollel, fine but don’t ask someone else to subsidize it. Pay full price for health care and have no subsidies.
Right
#5 skoyach well posted…. All the above heretics should watch the clip
))OO(( dr
how does the “State” recognize that they don’t recognize the “state”?
hey, #11 has an interesting slant!
yes
we all know how bart simpson is a troll and has no clue, facts are facts, they do not recognize Israel and get tons of free stuff…they should serve JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!
Milhouse
#6, A yeshiveh bochur has no business doing anything but learning Torah. That is his job, and it is how he is helping the community, the country, and the world. It is not just wicked but foolish to suggest that he take time away from that to do other “community service”; but above all it is heresy, because it demonstrates that one doesn’t consider learning Torah to be a community service, and one definition of an apikores is one who says “what good do the rabbis do for us?”
#7, Since when don’t we share their ideology? Our Rabbeim were fiercely anti-zionist; one need only see the Rebbe Rashab’s words, printed at the beginning of Kuntres Uma’ayon and in several other places. And the Rebbe, of course, never deviated ch“v from his predecessors. He never mentioned the medinah — he called it ”choshech koful umchupol“ — and always said that Jews in EY are just as much in golus as Jews anywhere else. The only difference between us and the Eidah is that they believe that since creating the medinah was an aviera, we must have nothing to do with it, we must not take anything from it, and we must not help it in any way; whereas the Rebbe, together with almost all the gedolei hador, held that bedi’eved, now that the medinah had been created, we must deal with the reality that it exists, and since it’s the only thing that stands between us and another Holocaust ch”v we must support its continued existence.
#10, exactly, WE ARE CHAREDIM.
Milhouse
#12, what do you think they were doing at the demonstration?
Gits
#5- thanks for the clip.
i have a question regarding the yeshiva students. some stay in yeshiva without really learning. would you say they should be in the army?
At the demonstration Milhouse
At the demonstration they were showing the world how stupid the Israelies are to support them and all their children and not do anything to support their country.
They are a money draining minority that only a crazy liberal country like Israel or the USA under Obama or Milhouse would tolerate.
just ignore millhouse he is challanged
obviously the majority agrees that all should contribute to the holy lands safety, especially if you are benefiting while others are doing the work for you.
isreal stern
we had been secured by the turks by the arabs by the english ,until the isrealis=zionist came and occupied that land with force,ok politicaly ,as every other nation has done ,the usa from the indians ,etc etc but logicaly you zionist provided us all these troubles today and forced us to be under your umbrella ,what morality can you ask us to take part of your army ??? just get the hell out of there ,let the UN take over that nation and them decide what to do with it , and let peace take place
Andrea Schonberger
Dear #18, What about chesed/mitzvah? Study the Torah YES but putting it into practice is equally important. Let’s see some action here. The Rebbe studied all his life but he was also an excellent example of the character that a Yiddish man is supposed to have: performing mitzvah and chesed and not just studying them.
Perfect world
#20 some stay in the army without really fighting?? We all know it’s not a perfect world were looking at the big picture in this case.
Milhouse
#17 is probably not Jewish. He is an 0bama campaigner. And now we see that he has the CHUTZPAH to contradict the Rebbe.
#21, What money? The Eidah does not take any money from the medinah.
#22, What has the majority got to do with anything? The Rebbe’s view is clear; how can you contradict it?
#24, A yeshivah bochur has NO RIGHT to take time out of seder to do chessed, or other mitzvos that can be done by others. He is on duty, every bit as much as a soldier who hsa been assigned to one job, and may not leave it to do another, even one that is more important. If you are on potato-peeling duty, you can’t go fly a fighter. And if you are a yeshivah bochur, chayolei Beis Dovid, you may not join Hatzoloh or Misaskim or Bikur Cholim or any other wonderful organisation, because your place is in the zal in front of a sefer. Even mivtzo’im may only be done on Erev Shabbos, not every day. But why are we even discussing this, when the Rebbe’s view is clear?
Stop being stupid!
It’s as simple as this, if you live in Israel then you need to fight in the army. Israel is under attack every second of every day. Standing around in a Beis Medrash just smoking isn’t learning and isn’t helping the state of Israel. There is a Beis Medrash on most bases in the army and you can still learn on your “off” time.I know many people who have done that. The army is also only 3 years service. You can learn all day before you join the army and all day afterwards. If you are still stubborn and don’t want to join then you can learn all day, but don’t expect checks from the Israeli government. After all, the Israeli government doesn’t exist and is just like living in America or Canada.
Torah is the protection
The Rebbe said that learning in yeshiva protects the country even more than being in the army. If the government can support the army, then shouldn’t it be willing to support yeshiva students?
about those who don-t learn
“There are four types among those who go to the study hall. [One who] goes but does not ‘do’ receives reward for the going.
im#17
went to ot and completed smicha, what have you done millhouse except for trolling the internet telling ppl what to do!?
you are such a loser, get a life
CR
“let the UN take over that nation and them decide what to do with it”
Anyone who is the least bit familiar with the outcomes of UN “peacekeeping” occupation operations over the years should recoil in horror at the sheer ignorance of your suggestion. UN oversight over areas of conflict have resulted in civilian deaths by the tens of thousands as well as human trafficking, enslavement and prostitution by UN personnel. Whoever suggested, in the name of Das Torah, that such a route be taken was a Navi Sheker and Shoteh Gamur!
“A yeshivah bochur has NO RIGHT to take time out of seder to do chessed, or other mitzvos that can be done by others. He is on duty, every bit as much as a soldier who hsa been assigned to one job, and may not leave it to do another, even one that is more important.”
Does this apply to the Oisvarf who barely stays awake in seder and spends more time on his cell phone or socializing around the samovar than poring over seforim? Unfortunately, far too many yeshiva students fall into that category.
isreal stern
simple and obvious ,our universe has a owner ,the owner is the boss ,he wants Jews in exile for the time being ,zionism is in direct violation the boss will ! not to go up from Exile to the Land of Israel en masse and not to rebel against the other nations,and therefore we only suffer by the isreal army ,i dont wanna be part of their silly fighting the boss ,my mission in this world is not to go against the will of g-d and more even ,if just to please the zionist movement ,that movement dosent give this world and neither the coming world ,i am secured without your army!its the trouble that your army brought to us that is your obligation to rescue us ,and not my duty to serve your army!!!
Chachmei Lublin
Any bochur who isn’t clear in 200 Blatt gemora with Rashi and Tosfos (by heart) before his 16th birthday, and then an additional 200 Blatt by his 18th birthday (with miforshim) should go to the army. If someone is mamish an iluy should get a ptur. It makes no difference who holds otherwise. They are wrong. Today’s bochurim are not more special than the tanaim and amoraim themselves.
to#32
owner? why did this owner allow the jewish state than? to torture us after the holocaust? YOU ARE CARZY!!!
moti
Ben Gurion also recognized that learning torah is important hence the exemptions for yeshiva students. The problem is they got our of hand.
Jewish dude
Before anybody drafts frumme yidden who love Israel what about drafting the muslim population of Israel who don’t love Israel. They always scream discrimination second class citizen. So all muslims in Israel in order to be an Israeli citizen with all its privileges got to the Israel army or no more welfare check, child support, housing, drivers license, etc etc.
Milhouse
And more people for whom the Rebbe’s words are irrelevant.
#30, So you’re shono upiresh. Go kiss 0bama’s bottom again and leave us alone.
#31, The gezeira is not on the slackers. If it were, nobody would be upset. It’s on everybody, and the vast majority are learning.
#32, That’s not the Rebbe’s attitude either. The medinah shouldn’t have been established, but the IDF is protecting Jewish lives, which is an enormous mitzvah. If someone isn’t learning anyway, and knows that he’s strong enough to go to the army and not compromise on his yiddishkeit (which means being ready to disobey orders if necessary, and pay the price) then he should go.
#33, Take it up with the Rebbe. He clearly disagreed.
#34, You may as well ask why He allowed the Holocaust. Hashem gives people bechira and allows them to do aveiros, but that doesn’t make them good. You cannot deny that almost ALL the gedolei hatorah, including the Frierdiker Rebbe and the Rebbe, were 100% against establishing the medinah.
#35, Ben Gurion was an atheist. He didn’t value the Torah at all, but he needed the frum community not to openly revolt against the medinah, and petition the UN against it.
Elesoy
It’s a flagrant double standard for the state to reward a portion of its citizens exemption from army service for their claim that they “protect the state spiritually”. The state is not a theocracy, and did not ask them to protect it spiritually.
Milhouse,
I find your argument largely irrelevant. Also your manner of deligitimizing those who disagree with you is infantile. The reasoning for your arguments employs fallacies like the straw man, false dilemma, the appeal to authority, the appeal to tradition, ad hominem attacks, and more…
In short, Milhouse, you are a troll, and need a life.
Milhouse
Wow. Just wow. Appeals to authority and to tradition are *fallacies*?! That says it all about commenter #38. Clearly not a believing Jew, and thus has no business on this site.
isreal stern
22. just ignore millhouse he is challanged wrote:
obviously the majority agrees that all should contribute to the holy lands safety, especially if you are benefiting while others are doing the work for you.
i like things seen in its right perspective ;if anyone robs me c’v of all my asset, property and police have him to return them at least partially ,but heavy expenses and other big life risks is involved at the process ,can i be claimed why not taking part of it ?they the Zionist did what they did ,and as long they don’t just give it all up entirely to the UN its their responsible to do protection all in line that don’t violate the oath and its non of my business to take part of theirs in line of oath violating !!!