Moishe to Light Independence Day torch
Moishe Holtzberg, the four-year-old boy who lost his parents in the 2008 terror attack on the Chabad House in Mumbai, is expected to light a torch together with his grandfather Shimon Rosenberg at the opening ceremony of Israel’s 63rd Independence Day festivities.
Yedioth Ahronoth has learned that the two were selected several days by a public committee appointed to choose the torch lighters. The committee recently approached Rosenberg, who adopted his grandson after Moishi’s parents – Rabbi Gavriel and Rivka Holtzberg – were killed in the Mumbai attack – and informed him of its decision.
An official announcement is expected to be made in the coming days, after the selection will be approved by the Ministerial Committee for Symbols and Ceremonies headed by Tourism Minister Stas Misezhnikov.
Six Israelis were killed in the attack on the Chabad House. Moishi survived after being rescued from the site by his Indian nanny, Sandra, who immigrated to Israel with him.
The public committee decided to choose the grandfather and grandson to light a torch, as they match the theme of Israel’s 63rd Independence Day: “Strengthening the bond between the people of Israel.”
Rabbi Rosenberg told Yedioth Ahronoth last week, “I was told that they had selected Moishi and me to light the torch. This is a very nice gesture. It’s something that connects Israel to the Diaspora and talks about unity. I am moved by the fact that the State remembers and appreciates Gabi and Rivki, who sacrifices their lives for others.”
Hannah Hacohen, chairwoman of the public committee appointed to select the torch lighters, refused to confirm or deny the report. “The public committee is completing its work as we speak. All the names will be officially announced next week.”
Milhouse
Lubavitchers participating in Yom Ha’atzma’ut?! Does anyone imagine the Rebbe would approve of this?
?!
How beautiful, to see Chabad finally come around and celebrate Yom haatzmaut and Zionism
Me
The poor boy is being used for someone’s own yesh. What a shame.
wondering
why is this okay?
nice
oh get a life! U think they woul do this without discussing it and doing something for the greater good???wow people are so critical.This is a beautiful thing.
This creates danger for all chabad house
By doing this the Israeli government sends a world message that chabad houses are nationally connected to Israel.
This can make Chabad houses targets to terror attacks, just like any israeli Emmbasy (e.g. Argentina)!
The difference is, embassies are at least somewhat protected by the state of Israel, but Chabad Houses are unprotected easy targets for terrorist who want to hit an Israeli nationalistic building.
Rebbetzin
“Strengthening the bond between the people of Israel” is a theme the rebbe would approve of, aka ahavas yisroel or achdus. If it happens to take place on Yom Ha’Atzomos – so what?! Are we potur from mitzvos or Jewish values on Yom Ha”Atzomos (like tefilin on Tisha B’Av)?!
Milhouse
Rebbetzin, you ought to know that the Rebbe strictly forbade Chabad mosdos from participating in Yom Haatzmaut celebrations. Zionism is chazer treif, and Chabad must not be seen as endorsing it.
Nobody
I don’t think there is much of a question of what the Rebbe would say. I don’t even think there is much of a question of what Moshe’s parents would say.
It is truly to cry for the way this boy has been used since the tragedy.
give....
I’m sure they consulted the right pple before accepting the honors! give it a break critics!
R. Gould
What is your problem with this, supporting Israel is no longer a political issue. Israel has become the embodiment of ALL Jews around the world, we cannot be separated from the holy land and our enemies who seek “only” the destruction of Israel really seeks destroy Jewry.
Its is time to stand up for out holy Land and proclaim once and for all that it is OUR LAND BECAUSE G-D SAYS SO. period end of story.
The Rebbe was clear on one issue when it came to Israel, that any Loshon Hora against our Holy Land will endanger Jews. Today it also means that when Torah Jews do not support Israel it further justifies the world in saying that Israel has no right to exist, G-d Forbid. Maschiach Will Come soon and in our Times. Let us keep the Torah according to Hillel
Yehuda
The Rebbe took his name of a moisid because they sang hatikvah. How can Moishe’s grandfather agree to have his grandchild used as a poster child at something that the Rebbe never approved off. The Rebbe always protected eretz yisroel & the Jews there but he always disapproved of the way the politicians ran the state in a non-Jewish way. BTW the Freideker Rebbe was against the establishment of the state but one it was established the Rebbeim always backed the right of the Jews to the land.
Rebbetzin
Millhouse, as you wrote “the Rebbe strictly forbade Chabad mosdos from participating in Yom Haatzmaut celebrations”, has Moshe and his family become “Chabad mosdos”?! Let’s not institutionalize them!
Further, the choice of Moshe was not to honour Chabad but the individual.
Many Chabad tefilin booths are set up at such celebrations – does the Rebbe diaapprove of that too?! (And they ARE representing Chabad mosdos). The answer is that they are doing a good peulah at a location representing an event which is disapproved. Lighting a torch for Jewish unity falls in the same category.
Levi
The rebbe were about the state that it’s founding pushed off the coming of Moshiach and we all now how much the rebbe does not hold of zionisiom so how is it possible that shluchim of the rebbe should be remembered in such a way that we all now is against the shita of the rebbe
Millhouse vs The Rebbetzin
They each make very good points. I am torn between their opposing views, who is right?
Although I see Millhouse has not yet answered the Rebbetzin’s last reply which was powerful.
People, please weigh in on this debate!
Kivan d-shosak
I think Millhouse met his match. As chazal say, From his silence we take it he agrees. I myself agree with the Rebbitzen.
Alte Chosid
Rebbetzin,
I suspect you are not from Chabad, for if you were, you would know that a Chosid represents the Rebbe. Therefore, a Chosid is not merely a “Chabad Mosad”, but an Ambassador of the Rebbe himself. Every Chabad Chosid knows this!
To put it in words that you can understand better, just as every Yid represents Hakodosh Boruch Hu, and therefore, the actions of an individual Yid can be a Kiddush hashem or Chilul Hashem, so too, a Chosid represents the Rebbe and his actions reflect directly on the Rebbe.
With this in mind, it is inappropriate for a representatitive of the Rebbe to participate in an event that the Rebbe disapproves of and would never attend at himself, no matter the capacity.
therefore, Millhouse is right.
Chana
#6 your point is a valid and frightening thought.
#6 & #18
The point you make is true. 100% emes. Except askopnim care more about kovod and getting popular than the safety of shluchim and chabad houses. They can’t think beyond their egos.
Rebbetzin
Alte Chosid, I think you are livimg in the olden days when you claim that a chosid represents his rebbe.
Look around you – do the chassidim in your community dress as ambassadors of the rebbe? Men in goyish clothes and balding beards while women have their hair sticking out and also body parts – does that represent your rebbe?!
True I am not chabad but I respect your rebbe more than many of such chassidim. I won’t even mention those chassidim who mock the rebbe by claiming he is alive – I won’t talk about such mishugoyim but the normal average chassidim.
To say that a chosid represents the rebbe is simply a tale, maybe it was so once upon a time but not in our times.
Mendy Hecht
The problem here is that Chabad is so much a part of Jewish life that for the Israeli government, it was really a no-brainer. The problem was not theirs but rather, the Rosenbergs, who very well may have felt that it was too hard to say no and get their fellow Jews, who were so supportive, upset. The fact is that it’s hard to explain to a Jew who cares about Yom Ha’atzmaut, however illegitimate it may be, that “we don’t hold of it.”
Stop speaking for the Rebbe
We don’t know what the Rebbe would say or do today. Gimmel Tammuz was 15 years ago. Wake up, people. Ahavas Yisrael.
“Zionism is chazer treif” – what kind of idiot are you? If more religious Jews would move to Eretz Yisrael, it would be run the way it should and maybe we’d be a bit closer to Moshiach.
What about the hundreds of shluchim that do Israel trips and take their communities and ba’al habatim? Is that okay in your opinion because the Chabad house makes a profit off the trip?!
Same goes for those that benefit from birthright trips, maasa funding, etc. Be honest with yourself.
We need a Jewish country – the Jews living in Germany didn’t think the holocaust would/could happen. 9/11 happened and our government is allowing a mosque to be built there. Wake up and smell the coffee – its our.
sad
can u all stop acting as if you all know what the rebbe would say or do !! becouse none of you do !!!! and throing around all these thoughts is just pure rubbish and just an excuse for u to get your own personal feeling out !!!
y cant u just be accssept it and be happy that this beautif child has the opportunity to do something good and show ppl all over israel and the world that at the end of the day we are all one! we are all one nation one family that one this day can come togeather as one and rememeber ……..
???
we support the honor of a young child who lost his parents. chabad or not dont soil that. and why not support the state of israel and the people in it?
to #20
Im sorry but i dont agree with you at all in the sense that a person does not need to dress tzniut to be tzniut. People who dress ever so pious, doesnt necessarily mean they are. I know that many people who are “pios” treat there wives and kids like crap, and are just bad in general. Similarly, i work in an amazing organization filled with teenagers and young adults, who work with special needs kids. EVERYONE there is jewish, some people where long skirts and long sleeves while others where short sleeves and shorts. Yet EVERYONE in that organization are the great tzadikim and tzadekes i have EVER known! So you, as a rebbetzin should think before you speak.
thank you 22
way to go 22 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! couldnt have said it betta my self
woah! wait - a - second rebbetzin and 22
Rebbetzin, and # 22,
Rebbetzin, If you arent a lubavitcher, then how can you even say whether or not we represent our Rebbe? You probably arent even familiar with the teachings of the Rebbe regarding the above-mentioned issues.
Actually, Representing the Rebbe isn’t an old tale; its what we as lubavitchers live with daily. That is the idea of shlichus, but the truth is, you have to learn alot lot more chassidus before you make such statements so theres no point of me talking even about shlichus. About the not tznius lubavitchers, I cant say anything, youre right, its embarrasing us and the Rebbe. Remember these people have yetzer hara too :(
(here its to #22)You say we shouldnt be making as though we know what the Rebbe would do? Well then, i guess we shouldnt follow anything the Rebbe said before gimmel tamuz because we dont know what the Rebbe would say now, is that what youre saying?
Sorry, the Rebbes views on zionism and connecting to zionist culture are very clear. you just gotta learn them!
Milhouse
#22, go learn the Rebbe Nishmoso Eden’s views on Zionism; it would make no difference if the government were religious, we would still oppose it because the shita is treif. Against those who called the state “reishis tzmichas geuloseinu”, the Rebbe called it “choshech koful umechupol”. As the Frierdiker Rebbe said, “we didn’t go into golus with our own power, and we will not go out of golus with our own power”.
Diplomacy and Rationality
#22 is the most correct out of everyone.
The saddest most hypocritical part about this whole business is that Chabad in general seem to believe that it’s okay to tell Israel what to do, but not support Israel and instead live in Crown Heights and direct the shots from there, echoing what the Rebbe may or may not have said about Zionism, the state of Israeli society/culture, etc.
Do you really think the Israeli government and Israelis in general are very, or have been very, interested in hearing what Chabad has to say about Israel and how the government is run, society is run, etc., if the majority of Chabad do not live there? It’s all very well to support the various Peulos from home, but it’s pretty cheap to give your opinions from outside of Israel.
Unfortunately since Gimmel Tammuz we no longer have the Rebbe to guide us physically on important cultural issues such as this – it can be argued that Israeli society has changed since the times when the Rebbe spoke about it.
It can also be argued that Israel today, society wise, is not so different from the times the Rebbe spoke about it and therefore, Chabad Chassidim should still refrain from supporting Zionism and festivals like Yom Ha’atzmaut.
But here is a beautifully simple, diplomatic and necessary middle ground approach.
Firstly, Millhouse:
Calling Zionism chazer treif is complete and utter idiocy – almost blasmphemous. Shame on you for deriding the Jewish state.
Of course, Israel is not the perfect country. Society could be a lot better. The economy could be a lot better. It would be nice if the government were religious and the country as a whole had religious fundamentals – tolerant of all religions and of all sects of mainstream Judaism, from strictest to least strict – but run by a frum government. Yes, that would be fantastic.
The problem is as we all know, this isn’t the case. But while we can’t change the government and the way society runs easily, we can, and we MUST, support Israel in any way we can – Peulos, shluchim and shluchos, Chabad houses, etc. are all a fantastic contribution to Israeli society and a Kiddush Hashem to Chabad.
What makes a Chillul Hashem to Chabad are heretics like Millhouse who seem to think the entire concept of Israel is treif. Such people live in a ridiclously small bubble – do they not think of the millions of holy Jewish souls who may *NOT* share the same religious and Chabad views – but still want to live in and are proud of to be part of a Jewish state of Israel?
Chabad does not run the world. Chabad is not the only sect of Judaism out there Millhouse. Hundreds of thousands of Jews, sick of being persecuted and tormented in Europe, left to Israel to make a better life for themselves. They are proud of being Jewish in their own way. Just because it is not the Chabad way does not, theoretically/objectively make it any less right than the Chabad way.
Therefore, it’s a heretical and terrible thing to say that the Rebbe said Israel is treif and we should have nothing to do with Zionism. But it’s to okay to make a big fuss and yell at their government about being more tznius, adopting the mitzvos, and creating a better society, all from the comfort and relatively better societal and economic stability/security of your home in the USA. You think it’s okay to tell the government and society what to do and at the same time call Zionism treif? What is wrong with you? It’s okay then for the Arab nations and the ignorant, biased West to slander, hate and want to destroy Israel, because it’s you think it’s treif? Do you really think your actions will bring Moshiach closer?
Today, more than ever, the Jewish people need to unite and stand behind Israel, for all it’s lackings. Yes, by all means try and do your bit to influence society there, continue with the Shlichus, continue with the Peulos – but I strongly suspect many, including Millhouse, have got the wrong interpretation of the Rebbe’s opinions on Zionism and Israel in general.
And you know what? Even if the Rebbe did say what Millhouse thinks he said, I sincerely doubt the Rebbe meant it to the point of not supporting and standing behind Israel. You do not have to agree wholeheartedly with the way Israel does things in order to stand behind it.
Lastly Millhouse, I don’t understand why you decided to end your most recent comment with
As the Frierdiker Rebbe said, “we didn’t go into golus with our own power, and we will not go out of golus with our own power”.
If you claim to be a Chossid of the Rebbe, you would surely know the Rebbe’s constant emphasis of him doing all that he could to bring Moshiach closer – now it is up to us.
Less hate,
less “My Rebbe told me you’re not good enough”,
less polarising,
And much more unbridled Chessed and unity. That is surely a great way to bring Moshiach closer.
Moshe
#29 Is absolutely ignorant of the Rebbeim’s Shitoh about Zionism and Yishuv Eretz Yisroel. As Milhouse states, it’s chazer treif. What we do support are the Jewish people already living there, making sure they stay safe.
to diplomacy and rationality
The rebbe’s view on zionism is that it’s like a jewish investment to make a new jewish insurance company so it should be a frum one if its jewish. But the attitude in which they called it a state is that they were bringing geulah (and in a sense, freedom from frumkeit Ch”v, that’s what the really early zionists thought) which is totaly wrong, therefore the rebbe did not hold of the israel independance day —- not the people of israel! The rebbe loved and supported jewish lives in israel and their safety.
Failed State
“ Hundreds of thousands of Jews, sick of being persecuted and tormented in Europe, left to Israel to make a better life for themselves.”
Hundreds of thousands of Jews left the state of Israel (one million is the figure I remember although I think it includes children born to emigres from the state) since its founding to make a better life for themselves in the US and other parts of the world.
nice!
its nice to see little moshe lighting the torch of israel, eretz hakodesh…