30 Comments

• anonymous

  BS"D
  re: children from divorced homes vs children whose parents are married

  You have to look at how the child from a divorced home (or who was raised by a widow or widower) handles his or her situation.

  We once had a bochur eat by us whose father was a widower and he mentioned two things that really put him in a good postion to have a helthy, thriving, respectful marriage:
  1. his father would point out to him as they were growing up that there are certain things wich would be different in a home with a wife, from little things like "don’t forget to open the door for your wife. If your mother were still here i would open the door for her." to bigger things.
  2. He made a point throughout his yeshiva days of eating by families, and really attaching himslef , becoming a ben bayit, by families where parents respected each other and the children respected their parents and each other. As he put it, he didn’t grow up seeing a whole family and how it functions and he needed to learn."

  Someone like taht will have a much healthier marriage than people who grew up with parents who were married but a. they had a disfunctional relationship or b. the guy or girl is simply oblivious emotionally and didn’t a clear idea of how to have a healthy relationship.

  Point of fact- there are a few families where the parents are still married but upwards of five or six of their kids are divorced, some 2 or 3 times. Clearly those parents have a problematic marriage, the kids are a mess because of it, and now dozens of children are growing up in divorced families because eevryone assumed that -as the parents were married- the kids would be a good shidduch.
  and who’s to say shidduchim weren’t turned down from single-parent families in favor of the shidduchim from these ‘happily married’ households? yet now there are many many divorces that have resulted.
  This issue has been brought up, but without tachlis. We have to learn to look not only what life has dealt people but at how they have responded to it- and a healthy reaction to growing up in difficult circumstances is an indication of healthy, normal adulthood and potential for a healthy normal marriage.

• Still Marrying them off

  Can’t ANYONE help this guy?? He sounds like a smart, sensitive mensch. And he’s not the only one out there! Webby, can you carefully profile this young man & steer some responses his way?

  BTW…my daughter has been trying to fix up her single friends FOR YEARS. But she’s getting to the point where she wants to give up. Why? Because these girls are unrealistic in their expectations, & so no bochur is "good enough" for them!

  Add to that unrealistic mothers of Bochurim & girls (deep down, you know you are!) and it’s a recipe for prolonged singlehood!

  Get real. If you ONLY want Shlichus & you’re a girl nearly 30, don’t "demand" Gejer. Look at the many fine, intelligent, sons of Baalei Teshuva! And if your son is really not a particularly Chassidishe "bochur", don’t go looking for a very Chassidishe girl from a "Spitz" family. You’re not helping your son! He is what he is. He should be happily married to a girl who has his values & they may grow together.

  Hatzlacha to everyone in finding "the right one".

• Yechiel Hakohen

  a tool that every lubavitcher uses for shiduchim is lubavitchsingles.com do your friends a favor and send in the names of your friends to the bochrim and girls lists.

  my name was not on the list for some time, and it was as if the shadchanim never heard of me. after i sent in my name i started getting calls.

  this is a must and a first step to solving the shiduchim crisis.

• a new fad?

  i want you to know that i have been working on a shidduch for my daughter and i called the references. 3 of the boys friends said this sentence to me:
  "i do not give out any personal information."
  so i said, but you were given as a reference. they said i don’t care, i made it a policy not to give out any personal information about my friends. so i said, well what are you willing to tell me?
  they said (in 3 seperate phone calls)
  "I can tell you he’s a nice guy"

  i was flabbergasted. at the end of my reference calling i was left with the feeling that there is something very wrong with this boy that we were looking into. i called the shadchan and said, no.
  she asked why and i told her, i think there is something wrong with the boy, and then because i remembered your article i told her why. she was horrified and called the mother who immediatly gave us new names. after calling those new names turns out he is a nice good boy.

  why on earth would someone do this? not one but THREE boys!!!
  is this a new fad? ruin it for your friend? make it sound like there is something wrong with them?
  horrible.

• Zeldy

  I have come to believe more and more – and more – according to what I’ve learnt and from my own understanding – that possibly the MAIN hitch in the shidduch process, the holdup could be simply in EMUNAH – believing that Hashem IS good and He DOES good.

  Meaning that he WANTS the best for us and dosn’t WANT to withold the best from us – He WANTS us to get married (as SOON AS WE’RE READY and to be zocheh to doing our best "avodah"). In fact – the split second that we’re ready (the way HASHEM needs us to be ready) – nothing can keep that shidduch away – and SOMEONE, maybe the man on the moon, even – WILL get a sudden chochma and come up with that name.

  But the trick, I’m convinced – dosn’t lie in the fact that there’s not enough boys or girls C’V (after all, you only need ONE), or that people are not thinking about you – but the problem I believe lies in doubting that HASHEM WANTS you to get married – but He’s just waiting for that moment you are ready, the right moment according to Him… And I believe that point is not necessarily a gashmius point, but it’s just the BITACHON in Him.

  …That it’s Hashem ALONE, and at any moment – that can do anything and bring out the bashert into the open. Every pot has a lid, as we know that 40 days before a neshama comes down, a Bas Kol calls out his/her beshret – and there may be a few possibilities, appaerntly.

  To believe it in GENERAL is easier. To believe it for ONESELF can be the hard part, to have the bitachon, that – EVEN for "me".

  And not only that – but not to have an (upside down) ego – that "I" am different from all the others, in that Hashem might withold my shidduch. WHO do you think you are – so special, so important – that you aren’t meant to be average and get married like the average way. It’s also a sort of ego self involvement. Better to be simple…

  BELIEVING Hashem WANTS good for you – to YES get married and that you are NOT DIFFERENT from everyone else – and at that split second, I believe, the malachim start to work to get that shidduch to fruition (see story : Pinye the Shadchan" (forget the author, who obviously has based his story book on hashgacha protis as shown in ideas from Kabbalah).

  Just believe it’s P O S S I B L E for Y O U, for YOU (repeat) and that Hashem IS (really!) good and He DOES good!!!!) – and that door could open. I personally believe that this might be THE big sticking point for some people – and NOT other problems – including age or non-interest or non-availability. Hashem can do anything.

  (And further – that this is the case in many things in our lives actually – if only we could apply this confidence in Hashem, this bitachon!!)

  L’chaim to lots of good mazel!

• in the parsha

  There are a few things I would like to say. First of all there is a new service out online called chabadmatch.com. Now when I originally heard about this my first thought was that this isn’t for a chassidishe bochur. This is for all those guys who are into internet dating like frumster and such. However as I began to look into it more I saw that it wasn’t so much a dating site rather it was just a place where you could put up your information so that a shadchan could find it when they are looking for someone. Since I began using it I have been contacted about many chassidishe girls from good families. So basically it is just a resource for shadchanim and so I would recommend any single bochur or girl to make use of it. Secondly I believe it is always good to be as prepared as possible and know what you’re getting into and why. So I would also recommend any single who is in the shidduchim process to visit http://www.jewishaudio.org/… and listen to the talks on marriage.

• Father of ten, been there and done that

  Zeldies comments are good for Krias Shma Sheal Hamita. In reality one must make every possible effort Bgashmius to try to find a Shidduch. And if things are somewhat difficult one must look for the reasons and try to fix them, not just sit back and enjoy the pain because Hashem does only good.

  During the early Mem’s (80’s) a Shidduch broke up. The father of the Kallah had the opportunity to go in to the Rebbe, and he asked (I am paraphrasing) "how could it be that the Rebbe gave a Bracha and the Shidduch broke up because of nonsense?" to which the Rebbe responded: "I give the Bracha but you must keep the Keili for the Bracha intact, I can’t help it if you break the Keili, the Bracha has nowhere to contain itself"

  The point was, that Hashem wants you to have all the best, but it is up to you to create a proper Keli (not just a spiritual one but also a physical one) to contain Hashems’ good (see Derech Mitzvosecha of the Tzemach Tzedek and Kuntres Unaayon of the Rebbe Rashab extensively and many more Maamorim, etc.) If you just trust in Hashem but do nothing about it Bgashmius, Hashems’ good will have no Keili to land into.

  I was also personally involved in a case where the Rebbe instructed someone (through a Rav) to give up a Shlichus and to come back to New York just to be more visible to make it easier for the Shadchanim to suggest Shidduchim for that individual (who complained that they couldn’t think of [or make any] suggestions, because out of sight is out of mind. And the Rebbe agreed to the Shadchans’ position).

  So yes, when you take stock and you make your Cheshbon Hanefesh, don’t despair and be sure that Hashem has only the best in mind (and believe me once you are engaged you will vouch for Hashems’ kindness in dragging this out, so you can actualy find the most perfect match [which you would never have found otherwise] and you feel to be the luckiest person in the world). However, we must do everything in our power to correct all the external obstacles to make the process easier (as the Rebbe once told someone who said that he wants to get married and he asked the Rebbe for a Bracha for a Shidduch, the Rebbe answered: First become a Mentch, then you will have no problems finding a Shidduch).

  Tzi Azoi Tzi Azoi, may all who need find a Shidduch easily and swiftly.

• chosson

  to Still Marrying them off, if you really wanted to help this guy, you would send him an email. he wrote it at the end.

  from a chosson, I wish you all the best.

• Pleasantly Impressed

  I must say that this is one of the most pleasant and constructive threads to read. I love the fact that the replies, as well as the op-ed, are well written grammatically and show a high level of intelligence. Thanks for posting this Webby!

• Ploni

  In response to : A new Fad.

  I dont know the boys that you called.
  But I am someone who would and does respond the same way as they did.

  A group of girls (including myself) were discussing the topic of shidduchim with a woman we know. We were talking about how freightening the world of shidduchim is. Anyone can say anything and find out EVERYTHING. and from there a shidduch can possibly be thrown off- Then, the family can go around knowing everything down to the last bit of this girl. Thats a very scary thought.

  When Parents call freinds of whom they are looking into, they are not getting a proper opinion. They are getting a more childish opinion. Calling freinds can be detrimental to a shidduch. Call adults! Roshei Yeshivos, Co-teachers, Shluchim, Camp Directors..Do NOT call freinds.

  The problem with the Shidduch world these days is that the Bochurim and Girls these days do not feel protected..

  Protect the singles out there,
  And do ure research maturely.

  So yes, the 3 freinds that u called were doing the right thing, and to them i say Yasher Koach for being sensitive enough to protect their freinds.

  Ploni

• It helps

  yes a good place to start is with updating your friends names to be added to the bochrim and girls lists

  lubavitchsingles.com

• don-t say if you don-t know

  i have been asked multiple times about bochurim who i was in yeshivah with a few years sgo (some as many as 5)most who have changed dramaticly from the time i knew them, some for the good and some for the bad,my responce is always the same:i do not know, it would not be fare for me to bad mouth someone,who has probally changed from the time i knew him, and most people do change, the point is if you are not still living with someone on a day to day basis and see how they act in diferent situations (even some of the people you are with on a daily basis you only see how they act with you not how they act at night/with family etc etc)do not say anytthing about them

• Divorcee

  First of all I would like to thank the composer of these two wonderful letters, well done!!

  I would like to bring up a different Shidduchim scene, that of divorcees.

  I’m sure you all must have encountered divorced men/women that are looking to get married, please make an extra special effort to help them find their bashert!

• Another divorcee

  to ‘Divorcee’: THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU for your comment! I have a very young baby and i feel it would be best to meet my beshert before she is old enough to know whats flying. I need shaddchanim to work over time for me cause my situation is a little more delicate…..
  May we all meet our Zevugim very soon!

• new fad?

  to ploni-
  i appreciate your response, but do you realize that it makes the boy looks suspicious, as though they need to hide something, therefore they don’t have anyting to say?
  if not for my thinking this was odd and then getting more calls we would have said no to a perfectly good boy.

  i do believe that single friends are not good references anymore.

• re: New Fad

  When I read your post, I was horrified as well. To those who are "protecting" their friends privacy (Ploni): The point is that you are ruining your friend’s chances of finding a shidduch. If no information is coming out about someone, that’s cause for suspicion.
  If you don’t know something, or if you don’t want to share for whatever reason, say "I don’t know the person that well." Obviously, if you are their best friend, how will it reflect on the prospective shidduch that their best friend doesn’t know them so well?
  Everything a references says or don’t say will be taken into account, and that’s just natural. It’s up to you to make sure to say the right things, in the right ways.
  Regarding asking adults instead:
  1. "Adults" aren’t necessarily more reliable than "friends". (If your friends are childish, maybe you should be looking for different friends…? Not meant to be rude.)
  2. Nobody has objective opinions about anybody else. Teachers look for academic skills, camp directors look for organizational skills, etc. They can only (objectively) tell you if the person in question is good at that thing. A friend’s subjective view is probably the most reliable, because "friend" is the closest relationship to "spouse" that the boy or girl currently has.
  One more point:
  It seems many don’t realize that your "perfect" match also comes with issues. Everybody has problems. So when you look for a perfect shidduch, you’re looking for someone whose positive qualities outweigh their negative (for you).
  Hatzlacha.

• still marrying etc etc

  Thanks, Chosson, you’re right! I’ll do that…how did I miss his email address!!!

• Likes to help others

  First off, I wish someone would have posted something like this when I was having my hard time with shidduchim, but I want to say two things, Dealing with a very fine bochur who is on the market, I came across negative information about a wonderful girl. The boy wanted to know what the info was, and who the girl was, and I told him I would not tell him anything, because I believed that she would marry one of this boys friends. kach haveh, and she is engaged to this bochurs best friend! I am so happy that I never said anything negative, because this boy will be exposed to this girl by association, and does not know to look down at her or his friend for the info that I found out. It is soooooooo important not to gossip! I want to stress that the info I found out that was negative was something that not everyone else would consider a negative, but made her not shayach for this particular boy.

• Must get a hold of

  I also want to add that, although I’m not usually into reading these type of ‘Shidduchim books’, I recently came across a book at a friends house that is so incredible, I have no words to describe how much I wish every single to read it.
  It’s called Shidduch Secrets and its not stam another book, another person’s thoughts and opinions of the ‘Shidduch crises’. It’s something else entirely, worth every page of reading. Both for those that are new on the scene or (especially) if you’ve been there for a while. Skip the intro., go straight to the chapters. It’s the best thing you could do for yourself at this stage.
  And when you’re done, pass it on to another single.

• Chaya Rochel Zimmerman

  In my city, the mothers have created a shiddoch group (of parents of shiddoch age children). We meet weekly to learn together inyonim connected to shidduchim- like the Rebbe’s letters, or to say tehillim together,to hear a speaker and we have a list of the names that we all add in for a brocha at licht bentching. That is the ruchnioyusdike part. For the gashmiyousdike part, we meet together to share each other’s resumees and to familiarize ourselves with what each other is looking for. Then when names are suggested for our child that is not appropriate, we try to see if it matches someone else’s child. This way we are all aware and available to help each other. Over the course of the past year, we have been zoche to many mazel tovs both from those mothers in the group and those who chose not to participate- but we kept them in mind anyway. To add to our zechuyos, we also he;p each other with their l’chaim, sheva brochos, etc.
  If all out- of- town cities would do the same with one contact person for their city, we could increase our ability to help each other.
  Signed Chicago

• Add to Don-t say if you don-t know ...

  As important as it is for friends to realize that their casual yeshiva/seminary friends change over time, it is important for shluchim and hanholos to remember that they know the boy or girl from a very focused perspective.

  PLEASE THINK before you let out any information.
  ASK YOURSELF:
  Do I know this for a fact?
  Does it have any bearing on the boy’s/girl’s ability to be a loving spouse?
  Am I qualified to answer this with the time I spent with the person?

  BOCHURIM/GIRLS: Please do us a favor and not discuss details of our dates. If you become engaged, your spouse will not appreciate it… if you don’t, you will come across bitter and indiscreet and you will earn the much-sought-after labels: Too Picky, Superficial and Immature. No one wins.
  Good luck to me, good luck to you, Meheirah yishoma… kol chosson v’kol kallah!

• saying your kapital

  I was a bit older when i got married,but the year that i got married I started saying my kapital tehillim every day. I told this to other people and it also worked for them.

• trying...

  Yashar koach. In the few years that I’ve been involved in shidduchim, I’ve had a few observations:

  1. There is, indeed, less bitochen regarding shidduchim. Whether because of broken engagements and marriages, concern about parnasa, role idealization ("shluchis only") or "Hollywood" expectations, many of the guys and gals (bochurim and young women) are not willing to say, "I will m’vatel my own vision in place of Hashem’s vison."
  2. Our educational system has created a schizophrenic situation in which many of the girls develop strong academic skills while the bochurim (in best case scenario) hone their limudei kodesh skills. Later, if the bochur begins to take courses, many are less academically self-assured than their female counterparts. Yet the girls want husbands who are "self-assured, focused and goal-oriented."
  3. Often, mothers don’t focus on what kind of mate their child needs; rather, on what kind of son-in-law (family, hashkafa, personality, job) she wants.

  To Ploni: when doing research for my own children, I always trusted friends. In fact, I got wonderful insights from my children’s friends by asking non-intrusive questions to ascertain personality and midos. It’s preferable to call married friends who can give current information. I did not call rabbanim because most see only one facet of the individual.

  A way to avoid excessive loshon hora is
  to say, "I’m looking for a shidduch for a girl who is a great listener" (shy) "and is very tznius." (no "history") Can you tell me if it sounds shayich?" Then, if the bochur is a little on the ‘wild’ side, the other person can rule it out without devulging damaging information.

  I agree that the bochurim and girls must stop discussing their shidduchim–unless they they want to suggest the person for a friend.

  We, too, meet regularly to discuss and suggest shidduchim. If nothing else, it makes us feel as if we’re making a kayli. :)

  We need the Rebbe here, l’mata!!! Ad masai?

• mom

  my issue, is that my daughter wants the type of chassidshe bochur who, in years past, would have definitely gone on shlichus. but she also wants someone who is practical under the current circumstances. the shadchanim have categorized her as someone who wants a modern working boy, which is definitely not the case.

• this would help

  in the previous article, someone very wisely suggested that specific guidelines be established, as to what should and should not be said when giving references.

• Helpful Suggestion

  A suggestion: Lubavitchsingles.com

  In addition, maybe a feature can be added that a person can add references and/preferred Shadchan. In this manner, people that are looking there for potential names have somewhere to start.

• Children from divorced homes

  WELL SAID:

  "We have to learn to look not only what life has dealt people but at how they have responded to it- and a healthy reaction to growing up in difficult circumstances is an indication of healthy, normal adulthood and potential for a healthy normal marriage."

  In many cases these kids are much better equipped at handling marriage, since they learned from there parents mistakes i.e. what not to do. and in many cases there parents are happily remarried so they also know what is right.

  leave bad and do good.

• to shadchanim

  I would like to make a practical suggestion to all Shadchanim. When a parent calls you to find a Shiduch for their child,the first thing that should be done, is meet with the young adult. If that is not possible, call them on the phone. You will get a much more accurate idea of what to look for, being that they will be more honest with you, and secondly you will be able to size them up in your own estimation much better then hours of talking to the parents. They will usually agree to meet with the Shadchan. It is totally beyond me to try to understand how a Shadchan undertakes to find Shiduchim for young adults that he or she has never met. They waste precious minutes and hours and days of phone calls that amount to less then 0.

• yungerman

  Let us not forget what the Rebbe said so many times in so many letters, that we should look at the ikar (main thing) and not the tofel, and for sure not the tofel of the tofel (secondery). When all people care about is how tall is he or how thin is she etc. it is putting the stress on what is not the most important things in a mariage. also I (as a male) hear a lot about how the boys are so picky about how she lookes etc. I persoany know many boys and I could tell you that most of that comes from the boys mother. she’s normaly the one to reject a girl for her lookes and for how thin she is or is not. think about it.

• I second that motion.

  To “to shadchanim”:

  You are absolutely correct. I met my wife through a mutual friend who acted as the shadchun and liased between both our parents. Prior to this my wife and I were both set up by the same shadchun with prospects that were totally not shayach for us. She never thought of putting the two of us together. She has an impeccable name as a shadchan in CH yet she missed this one. I often wonder why this shadchan never thought of putting us together and think it is because although she knows my family she never actually met with me before suggesting names. She was trying to set my parents up with a daghter in-law instead of introducing me to my bashert.