Study: Spanking Tied to Later Aggression Among Kids
Think spanking will help teach an out of control child to stay in line? A new study suggests the opposite may be true.
Researchers found kids who were spanked as five-year-olds were slightly more likely to be aggressive and break rules later in elementary school.
Those results are in keeping with past research, said Elizabeth Gershoff. She studies parental discipline and its effects at the University of Texas at Austin.
“There’s just no evidence that spanking is good for kids,” she told Reuters Health.
“Spanking models aggression as a way of solving problems, that you can hit people and get what you want,” Gershoff, who wasn’t involved in the new study, said.
“When (children) want another kid’s toy, the parents haven’t taught them how to use their words or how to negotiate.”
Despite mounting evidence on the harms tied to spanking, it is “still a very typical experience” for U.S. children, the study’s lead author said.
“Most kids experience spanking at least some point in time,” Michael MacKenzie, from Columbia University in New York, said. “So there’s this disconnect.”
His team used data from a long-term study of children born in one of 20 U.S. cities between 1998 and 2000. The new report includes about 1,900 kids.
Researchers surveyed parents when children were three and five years old about whether and how often they spanked their child.
Then they asked mothers about their kid’s behavior problems and gave the children a vocabulary test at age nine.
A total of 57 percent of mothers and 40 percent of fathers said they spanked children when they were three years old. That fell slightly to 52 percent of mothers and 33 percent of fathers who spanked at age five.
Children acted out more and were more aggressive when they had been spanked by their mothers as five-year-olds, whether regularly or occasionally.
Spanking by mothers at least twice a week was tied to a two-point increase on a 70-point scale of problem behavior. That was after the researchers took into account children’s behavior at younger ages and other family characteristics.
There was no link between spanking by parents at age three and children’s later behavior, however.
Kids also tended to score lower on vocabulary tests when they had been regularly spanked by their fathers at age five, MacKenzie and his colleagues write in Pediatrics.
The average vocabulary score for all nine-year-olds in the study was 93, slightly below the test-wide standard score of 100. Frequent spanking by fathers was linked to a four-point lower score. But the researchers couldn’t be sure that small difference wasn’t due to chance.
Gershoff said the finding is a bit hard to interpret. “I don’t think that spanking makes kids stupider,” she said.
It’s possible that parents who are spanking are not talking to their children as often, Gershoff said. Or kids who are spanked and act out could be more distracted in the classroom.
When it comes to disciplining children, she said there’s more evidence on what doesn’t work long-term than what does.
“We know that spanking doesn’t work, we know that yelling doesn’t work,” Gershoff said. “Timeout is kind of a mixed bag. We know that reasoning does work.”
MacKenzie said spanking continues to seem effective to parents in the short term, which makes it hard to change their minds about it.
“It’s strongly associated with immediate compliance,” he told Reuters Health. “Children will change their behavior in the moment.”
Because family strain and spanking often go together, he said doctors should try to support stressed parents to encourage more positive forms of discipline.
“The techniques that are designed to promote positive behaviors … oftentimes take more effort and time to put into place,” MacKenzie said.
Anonymous
Whether spanking your kid is good for the kid is debatable. What is certain is its therapeutic benefits for the father. Especially after a hard day’s work.
Chinuch
A very respectable chodosh’s told me when he went into yechidus he told the Rebbe he hit his kid .
He said the Rebbe said , if you contemplated that this is Hashems child , your hand would tremble and you wouldn’t be able to lift your hand to ……. ( dont remember exact words but something like that )
Why does anyone think they have a right to hit anyone ???? Especially a child entrusted to them by Hashem
Milhouse
This “study”, like the many others of its ilk, is worthless. Even if it’s true (and it’s probably not) that “kids who were spanked as five-year-olds were slightly more likely to be aggressive and break rules later in elementary school”, maybe all it means is that naughty kids are more likely to be spanked than well-behaved kids. The “researchers” are simply pursuing an agenda, and building their data around the conclusion they want to reach.
We have a possuk that tells us חושך שבטו, שונא בנו; ואהבו, שחרו מוסר
Let's follow your "logic"
“Kids also tended to score lower on vocabulary tests when they had been regularly spanked by their fathers at age five”
Following the “Milhouse Logic”: maybe it means naughty kids are more likely to use less words…
The study seems to be gender biased and stereotyped as its focus on fathers spanking their children, not mothers.
Sam I Am
Just ignore Milhouse. He is a troll. Whatever he says, however apparently rational (or irrational) is simply meant to provoke a reaction. He doesn’t truly care about this issue or any other and couldn’t care less what you or anyone else thinks. Again, he’s a troll and gets his jollies by engaging and thereby aggravating people like yourself who have a legitimate, vested interest in such matters.
Milhouse
Yes, as a matter of fact, less intelligent kids are more likely to be naughty and to need more discipline.
More "Milhouse Logic"
According to Milhouse, a child who is a simpleton is more prone to mischief than the devious and mischievous child.
If that is logic, I wonder what is considered illogical.
Milhouse
“Sam” projects his own slimy nature on everyone else. He thinks that just because he’s a twisted evil person, so is everyone else. And he’s insanely jealous of anyone who actually knows things, and can comment intelligently.
Sam I Am to #7
Why are you even bothering yourself with what Milhouse writes? He’s just trying to bait you into an endless argument for the sake of argument. This will continue to frustrate you (and others) until you stop replying to his posts. He doesn’t care for a second what you or anyone else has to say. He is a troll in the purest sense and derives pleasure from this type of thing. If you say “black” he’ll say “white”. If you say “up” he’ll say “down”. Get the picture?
Milhouse
Low intelligence often manifests itself in misbehavior. Hence the well-established and easily-observed fact that criminals tend to be of lower than average intelligence.
Milhouse
Sam, go play in traffic. You’re disturbing your betters.
"Milhose Facts" to support "Milhouse Logic"
Milhouse claims: “the well-established and easily-observed’ fact that criminals tend to be of lower than average intelligence.
This is pure Milhouse Fiction.
But applying “Milhouse Logic” – the more intelligent criminal are never caught or discovered, so you only see the dumb ones in jail.
in truth, the issue was studied:
Doll examined 839 prisoners in the New Jersey State Prison with the Army Alpha intelligence test. He compared the group with white draft recruits from New Jersey and concluded that the general mental level of the prisoners corresponds closely with that of adult males in that state.
See Edgar A. Doll, Comparative Intelligence of Prisoners. Jour. of Crim. Law. and Criminol., 11: 191-197, 1920.
The association between IQ
and criminal/delinquent involvement diminishes (Ellis & Walsh, 2003)
And these studies only consider the dumber criminal who were caught. Their smarter counterparts escaped and were not part of the study.
Milhouse
What a moron. You cite some study from 1920, as if it were authoritative. It’s well established and uncontroversial (except among those leftist radicals who deny that there is any such thing as IQ) that the average IQ of criminals is about half a standard deviation lower than normal people. Only a dishonest person like “Sam” would dispute it.
Sam I Am
Why are you confusing Milhouse with facts and logic? Milhouse believes that Milhouse is always right, so the facts must be wrong.
Milhouse
The facts are always right, by definition. And I have the facts on my side, as usual, while you have nothing but lies, half-truths, and junk. Again, as usual.
Half truth is a complete lie
Milhouse turns to infantile name calling:
“What a moron. You cite some study from 1920, as if it were authoritative.”
That is half true – I cite a 1920 study AND a 2003 study to show that that the results remain CONSISTENT.
Does Milhouse always resort to name calling whenever he is proven wrong?
Studies have shown that resorting to name calling is a sure sign of inferior intelligence.
Moron
A person whose IQ lies between 45 and 59 is a moron. Slightly stupider than a retard (60-69) but still smarter than an idiot (below 45): Reber, A.S. (1995). The Penguin Dictionary of Psychology, 2nd ed. Toronto: Penguin Books.
Sam I Am
Milhouse
What studies would those be? You made them up just like you made up the first ones.
Oh, and you’re misquoting Ellis and Walsh. Either deliberately because you’re a damned liar, or inadvertently because you’re too stupid and incompetent to read what they wrote. Please tell us what the word “diminishes” means, what is diminishing, what does it diminish from, and under what circumstances does it diminish? You either have no idea, or you know very well and are deliberately dishonest.
Milhouse
“Sam” or whatever your name is (pick one and stick to it), your father clearly didn’t hit you enough when you were physically a child. Now, although you’re mentally still a child, it’s too late.
Sticks and stones will break my bones but names...
Milhouse must be getting desperate! After resorting to name calling (he called me a moron), he is now calling me a “damned liar” (which I gather is more than just a plain liar) and/or “stupid and incompetent”.
He accuses me of “misquoting Ellis and Walsh”.
Thankfully, anyone interested can scroll up and see exactly what I wrote: “The association between IQ
and criminal/delinquent involvement diminishes (Ellis & Walsh, 2003)”
Nothing misleading here exact for Milhouse who must create an argument.
You see Milhouse claimed that “the well-established and easily-observed’ fact that criminals tend to be of lower than average intelligence.”
This is neither well established or easily observed since studies show that proof of any correlation is actually DIMINISHED.
And, this is when measuring the criminal that got caught, leaving it open to suggest that the smarter ones did not get caught. Indeed, the average criminal has a HIGHER IQ than that of the average population.
But rest assured, Milhouse is sure to respond with more name-calling because he has trouble forming a cognizant argument. I smile as I picture the drool dripping from his rabid mouth as he frantically searches for some derogatory name to call me by in his desperate need for self validation.
Milhouse
Definitely a moron. What do you think “diminished” means? What is it diminished from, and when is it diminished? You’re stupid enough to be a criminal yourself.
As predicted
Milhouse has now added another name-call of “stupid” (that was the best he could come up with, after using “moron”). He also describes me a a “criminal” – probably in his mind, anyone who disagrees with him is a criminal.
It is sad to see a troll in pain.
Sam I Am
As much as I enjoyed reading Milhouse get proven wrong I stand by what I said earlier that you should just ignore him. He is a troll, one who lives in caves under bridges. Let him stay there.
Avraham Yosef Follick
It’s simple enough to find out what Ellis and Walsh actually say. Try here for example: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=rPNFXBnwuNoC&oi=fnd&pg=PA343&dq=The+association+between+IQ+and+criminal/delinquent+involvement+diminishes+(Ellis+%26+Walsh,+2003)&ots=7LRffVn2C_&sig=TAfpHhvdNaID8V_eLBEgeuQ68ck#v=onepage&q=The%20association%20between%20IQ%20and%20criminal%2Fdelinquent%20involvement%20diminishes%20(Ellis%20%26%20Walsh%2C%202003)&f=false
They say that there IS a correlation between low intelligence and criminal behavior (except for drug use) and they say that this is not because dumber criminals are more likely to be caught.
While I follow the teachings of our Rabbeim to avoid frequent spanking or spanking in anger, in this point about criminals and intelligence Millhouse is factually correct.
Milhouse
Thank you. Someone actually looked it up. I’m still waiting for the liar to admit his lie. Guess I’ll be waiting a long time.
For anyone who’s confused, the snippet that the moron quoted says that the WELL ESTABLISHED link between crime and low intelligence is DIMINISHED (i.e. it’s still there, but lower) under specific circumstances. And what are those circumstances? They are if you rely on the criminals’ own reports instead of on objective facts!
Milhouse
While I follow the teachings of our Rabbeim to avoid frequent spanking or spanking in anger,
When did I ever suggest otherwise?
"Milhouse Logic"
EXCERPTS from:
http://ww2.odu.edu/ao/instadv/quest/Genius.html
Genius Criminals
By Mary Adams-Lackey and Patrick K. Lackey
Criminals are generally thought to be just a little dumb, with IQs averaging eight points below the norm. Those, of course, are criminals who got caught. What about the ones bright enough to escape detection and capture?
Little is known about genius criminals, the lawbreakers with IQs of 132 or more, the ones who got away. It is a gap in knowledge that Old Dominion University’s James C. Oleson has worked nine years to fill. Oleson, 36, is a popular assistant professor of sociology and criminal justice who has developed and taught eight courses since 2001, including one called “Murder.”
On leave in 2004-05 to serve a prestigious fellowship with the U.S. Supreme Court, Oleson returns to ODU for the fall 2005 semester to teach and resume his research on super-bright criminals.
Consequently, high-IQ offenders, the ones who get away with activities for which those of lower IQ are apprehended, became the focus of his doctoral study at Cambridge University in London.
For his study, he found 424 high-IQ offenders from a number of countries who would complete a questionnaire regarding 72 offenses ranging in seriousness from abuse of work privileges to homicide. In total, the respondents reported 33,500 offenses in the previous year and nearly 326,000 offenses over their lifetimes. The large majority were minor infractions.
But Oleson concluded that his investigation suggests that, among intellectually superior adults, offending — even crime of a serious nature — is a surprisingly commonplace phenomenon.
It was, he said, the first “systemic investigation of the offending behavior of genius-level adults.”
The offenders came from three groups: members of the International Society for Philosophical Enquiry, students at prestigious American and foreign universities, and American and British correctional facilities inmates who scored high on IQ tests.
He found that about 6 percent of his subjects committed half of the offenses. Other studies have shown the same results for criminals of ordinary intelligence.
He conducted phone or e-mail conversations with many of the subjects as he sought to understand why geniuses commit crimes.
Generally, Oleson says, bright criminals focus on nonviolent crime such as fraud or tax evasion, with many using illegal drugs or even dealing drugs. “Especially for the consensual crime, there was the sense of being above what the law required. And a lot of them said very bluntly that they were glad the laws were there because most people needed that kind of coerced influence to regulate their behavior but that they didn’t and that they could make conscientious choices of their own. There really is a kind of intellectual arrogance or superiority about their viewpoint.”
Serial Killers IQ
http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/Serial_Killer
Organized serial killers, as profiled by John Douglas, former FBI Profiler, normally share the following common characteristics[3]:
White male, aged 25 to 45
Above average intelligence (100+)
Strong personal and social skills
Able to maintain normal family life
Usually employed in a menial position, often below their abilities
May make an effort to cover up their crimes, often dumping the body in a hidden location and cleaning up the crime scene; some have a working knowledge of forensics
Gifted Delinquents - What Do We Know About Them?
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/abstract.aspx?ID=75331
The causes of delinquency among youth of above average intelligence are reviewed from two perspectives: that gifted children are more prone to delinquency because of environmental factors, and that the same factors discourage delinquency.
Above-average intelligence is considered a delinquency stimuli by some researchers because gifted children are likely to be more sensitive to their environment than are less intelligent youth. An opposite perspective is taken by other researchers who believe that gifted children are more capable of surmounting environmental obstacles because of their insight into the consequences and long-term results of their behaviors. Surveys of research indicate that gifted youth are less likely to appear in delinquent populations. Those gifted youth who do appear in delinquent populations usually are from disrupted and unstable homes. Gifted delinquents represent 3 to 5 percent of the youth offender population. Bright youth are less likely to commit status offenses and more likely to be motivated by psychological considerations. School performance for most bright delinquents is far below capacity, although evidence that indicates that some youths become disruptive outside of school before their school performance deteriorates. Gifted delinquents who come before juvenile court generally have a poor prognosis. Sixteen references are included.
Anonymous
Johansson P, Kerr M, Psychopathy and intelligence: a second look., J Pers Disord. 2005 Aug;19(4):357-69. PMID: 16178679
Empirical studies using the PCL-R (Hare, 2003) have shown no intelligence differences between psychopaths and nonpsychopaths. However, Cleckley (1976) argued that psychopaths often show superior intelligence.
http://www.crimetimes.org/06b/w06bp7.htm
IN PSYCHOPATHS, HIGHER IQ CORRELATES WITH GREATER SEVERITY
A new study, however, suggests that the severity of criminality increases in psychopaths who are more intelligent-a pattern opposite to that seen in criminals who are not psychopathic.
Peter Johansson and Margaret Kerr studied 370 men sent to a Swedish nationwide assessment center for violent offenders. Forty percent of the men were convicted of murder, attempted murder, or manslaughter.
The researchers report, “The key finding in this study is that psychopathic and non-psychopathic criminals, although not different in overall levels of intelligence, did differ in how high intelligence was related to the seriousness of misbehavior. For non-psychopaths, higher intelligence, particularly verbal intelligence, meant a later start in violent crime. For those diagnosed as psychopaths, however, high intelligence meant an early start in violent offending and more problematic behavior in and outside of institutions.”
The researchers say that while psychopaths are not more intelligent than non-psychopaths as Cleckley suggested, high intelligence appears to “enhance the destructive potential” of a psychopath. They speculate, “[P]erhaps an explanation lies in the experience of having high intellectual abilities together with characteristics such as impulsivity and irresponsibility that do not allow one to succeed in the ways that people with high intellectual abilities normally do.”
Criminals With High IQ's
It is rumoured that the mafia leader Al Capone had an IQ of 200.
An example of a criminal with a verified exceptional intelligence (IQ 170, at age 10) is the Unabomber Theodore Kaczynski. He was a successful researcher in mathematics before he turned against the society.
Other famous high IQ scorers among the criminals are Richard Loeb (child iq 160) and Nathan Leopold (child iq 210) at the beginning of the 20th century.
Milhouse is WRONG once again
As usual. No news here. Expected. Calling me a liar does not prove you right. All it shows is that lack of ability to articulate an argument.
Sam I Am
Ha ha ha ha Milhouse must be steaming that he has been discredited, I said it before, he is a troll. When exposed to light of truth, he must crawl back under the slime rock.
Sound of Silence
The sound of Milhouse’s silence speaks volumes. This is proof that a little bit of knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge at all. Or as they say a half wit is worse than a nit wit because the half wit thinks he is intelligent.
Re-quoting Milhouse
“I’m still waiting for the liar to admit his lie. Guess I’ll be waiting a long time.”
כל הפוסל במומו פוסל
Thank you to the poster(s) for the wealth of information shared.and pointing out the fallacy of misinformation disseminated by Milhouse.
Milhouse is wrong
If Milhouse had an answer, he would have said it, as he did earlier, when he thought he can. He did not answer the latest postings because he knows now that he is wrong. As usual.
I agree
Spanking a child, causes them to hit other children in response. I think it would be good for parents in crown heights to attend parenting classes in order to become better parents as their behaviors suggest otherwise
Anonymous
They think that they wiser than Shlomo Hamelech
From a professionally-trained person who is an advocate for children
While spanking most likely won’t make children “stupider”, it is often the case that a child will be very upset that the people they love and trust the most have hit them. They might carry this hurt emotionally far longer than they do physically. As a result, they may not function to their potential academically, having lingering emotions unresolved. If this hitting happens on a consistent basis, the child’s emotions may impede academic progress significantly. Emotions can negatively impact thinking, just like stress can. Imagine if you had problems in your life that were creating a lot of stress or upset feelings. Let’s say this situation remained in your life for a year or more. There was no possibility for a resolution, no one to listen, no one to offer advice, no one who could help, no one who even understood how this could possibly be upsetting you so much. Yet you only felt more upset. Remember, no one was effective in helping you to change this situation. I venture to suggest that some of you would not find it easy to participate in situations requiring complex thinking on a daily basis, especially if you were being evaluated daily. Well, students are asked to do just that, and they are evaluated every day. Some students handle stress and emotions more easily than others. Those who have unrelenting parents who insist on hitting their children would do well to study up on other ways to reach their children. They themselves may have been hit, but the general guidelines, according to real research, for effective parenting suggest that hitting is not effective. It may be a temporary option to curtail a behavior, but it does not reach the child at a meaningful level. It is superficial.
s
you “professionals” have successfully lowered America’s educational standards till we become number 32, and we’re still falling.
emotional health
My opinion-it’s not the spanking itself that is damaging- it’s the anger, frustration, are loss of control that really damages kids. If you can’t deal with your kids, take a deep breath and talk to them calmly and directly, enforce consequences, and make sure you give yourself some time too cool off when you are done, so your frustration doesn’t build. This doesn’t work for you? Get help! This is the one job that is most important!
chana
A spank out of love to teach a child a lesson, is not a strike in anger. It is done with an explanation to the child – words. It is done carefully not to injure. It is done privately – not to embarrass.
This is the type of spanking the Torah is talking about. It is not the spanking in this study.
Avraham Yosef Follick
Very well said
Anon
Some kids need spanking. A lot of these kids nowadays are spoiled.
Chinuch
There is no excuse to hit a child . That is not what makes a Kia spoiled
to #14
So spanking will UNspoil them? Don’t spoil them in the first place! Parents spoil their children and spank them for the bad behavior that the parents created by spoiling them in the first place? Maybe the parents should spank THEMSELVES! They’re the ones that didn’t parent well!
to #10
I never stated that I was a teacher, although every teacher I know absolutely does NOT lower their standards nor their expectations! I said I was an advocate for children and a professional. I have met many children who come from families where spanking occurs on a regular basis. Some of them shake in fear at the thought of being treated that way. Some of them act out by being disruptive in class because they don’t know what else to do with all the negative energy they have absorbed and been hurt by. And so on. Our society is more complex than to be dealt with in the simple manner of data rendering us #32. In Japan the suicide rate among school-aged children is very high, yet by some accounts they “rate” high. In my opinion, that is not “high”, that is tragic.
s
we were doing fine as late as the 1950’s, after most of the “complexity” moved in. and I didn’t accuse you of being a teacher either, just of trying to trump “professionalism” over good old fashioned seichel, which is how we got into this mess to begin with. Anyhow, I agree that how the spanking is given, as well as whether or not the parent explained to the child the reason for the spanking, makes a difference. My point was simply that you don’t ban cars just because there are accidents, and you don’t try to outsmart Shlomo Hamelech either. and what does Japan have to do with anything, are you trying to say that by some counts are ed system is a success?
Texas
Did it occur to anyone that parents who spank are usually less well educated and have lower iIQs and are themselves having difficulty in verbal expression which would translate into having children with lower IQs and lower vocabulary.
It’s genetic.
Re Japan
Japan is, by some accounts, rated very high in their educational system when it comes to academics and expectations; however, the rigidity and high stakes paired with the educational staff who apparently are so involved with the former values stated, they are creating many young people who commit suicide as a result. The reason I correlated this fact is that here again, although I don’t know about hitting in that culture, children put their lives in the hands of influential people who in turn do not take the emotional aspect of their beings into account. The previous commenter thinks that our quality of education has gone down, and that opinion was written in an article about hitting. I included another example of a society seemingly caring more about a physical outcome, rather than the well being of a child. In addition, I have seen parents in our culture defend their hitting with comments like: “Well he wouldn’t take out the garbage! She didn’t respond to me even the second time! He would not stop crying! She kept avoiding her homework!” And so on. When my children behave in similar fashion, I remind them that we have talked about this before and I expect them to improve. I ask them if there is a reason they are able to explain to me as to their behavior. I remind them that I love them and that we are capable of having a family that works together and can communicate with each other. I state that we all have responsibilities in the family, depending on appropriate age, etc. THEY feel accepted, even though their BEHAVIOR is not accepted. If I had gone at them with anger and hitting, more likely they would feel confused that this important adult in their life caused them physical pain, when they could just as easily provided guidance and firm boundaries through communication. I think if adults find it so hard to avoid anger and hitting, they should consult a rabbi or a professional in the field of psychology. I never heard that the Rebbe condoned hitting. Someone please give me an example of a time he did.
s
Forget the ed system, just compare the crime stats. Now please respond to the rest of the comment
. And with regards to japan, no one said you can’t overdo it, just don’t bring examples from extremes, and in japan, suicide happens to be a normal part of the culture, and has been so for hundreds, perhaps thousands of years. As to what you say over here: everyone makes mistakes, but there is a way to cause pain without causing lasting emotional damage. Remember: its all about how its applied, and there is no substitute for teaching a child what pain is other than through pain, words cannot fill in for this. As an aside, many times the child does not understand what he did wrong, and therefor does not except what he did as wrong. Hence the need for pain as a deterrent.
............
As a wife and mother of a newborn, I have one memory of my mother slapping me. This memory is so strong as It never happen previous to that present time or again after. I said “shut up” to my mother and for that I got a slap so hard I have never been disrespectful again!
I feel like a slap once in a while is ok for a child but once it gets often then that’s when it not ok!