In a response from R. Moshe Rubashkin [to what Chanina Sperlin spread] he said that there was a vote and there was a majority of the vote for these elections. He goes on and says that Chanina Sperlin is misleading the community, he is creating an impression that the Rebbe was opposed the Vaad “Arranging” the elections, by presenting only a piece of a letter, Rubashkin said that the Vaad gave Chanina a week to present the letter in its entirety, but he failed to do so, and the move to vote was made.
Rubashkin promises that these elections will be held under the watch “of a third party with no affiliation” and he also added that the process of electing R. Shwei was a complete disobedience of the Rebbe’s will.
The full letter that Moshe Rubashkin released can be seen in the Extended Article.
Vaad HaKohol Fires back; There Was A Vote, Sperlin is Misleading
In a response from R. Moshe Rubashkin [to what Chanina Sperlin spread] he said that there was a vote and there was a majority of the vote for these elections. He goes on and says that Chanina Sperlin is misleading the community, he is creating an impression that the Rebbe was opposed the Vaad “Arranging” the elections, by presenting only a piece of a letter, Rubashkin said that the Vaad gave Chanina a week to present the letter in its entirety, but he failed to do so, and the move to vote was made.
Rubashkin promises that these elections will be held under the watch “of a third party with no affiliation” and he also added that the process of electing R. Shwei was a complete disobedience of the Rebbe’s will.
The full letter that Moshe Rubashkin released can be seen in the Extended Article.
Berl
Chanina looks like a fool now!
Anonymous
I have to say that Moshe Rubashkin’s claim that this is the position of a majority of the Vaad would be much more believable if this letter was signed by more than one member of the Vaad.
I don’t understand why he won’t open the books to the Netzigim and the community. Complaining that some of the Netzigim are behind on Mas Hakohol doesn’t seem to me to be a good reason to keep the financial dealings of the CHJCC secret from the community.
Shpritzer
Dear Anonymous:
Moshe Rubashkin has given a full accounting to a number of Netzigim, in fact approximately 19 of 27! Furthermore, Rabbis Shmuel Plotkin and Tzvi Lang are completely with Rubashkin. The Chairman has the right to speak for the majority.
Let’s face it. All this namby-pamby back and forth bickering between the Rubashkin group and the Sperlin adherents looks like kindergarten. Al tsu zamen,Genuck shoin.
As long as people ask the right questions, and get truthful answers, Crown heights can move forward. If we are going to do get into he said/they said, then I suggest there are better things to spend time on, like being a Chosid.
lost on President St.
B"H
I was privileged to attend a meeting of nitzigim at Rabbi Moshe Rubaskin’s home. There, he disclosed the budget of the C.H.J.C.C. and the Vaad. He revealed nothing new or novel. He is keeping nothing from the community. He is doing a good job and truly needs support from the schunah. Just call him or go to the Vaad office to learn more. I am sure he will be happy to talk to you
not a n-Zeeg-elle
whoever in the community paid mas hakohol should have a right to see the books!
transparent?
Its understandable the desire to add more rabonim the the Beis din, but why in the process does he have to weaken 1 of the rabonim who are are already in the beis din?
By claiming that the previous election was "gerrymandered", "in clear violation of the rebbes wishes" and "not in the best interest of the community" it :
A. weakens the validity of this rov.
B. weakens his authority in the eyes of the community.
C. contradicts the claim in the letter the the "vaad works diligently to generate ….. sholom bayis".
D. by delegitimizing 1 of the 2 rabonim active in the beis din, this has the opposite effect of making the beis din even smaller than it is instead of "expanding" it.
E. To clarify to all the rebbes answer and the discussion with sperlin, there was no need whatsoever to mention "past actions" and supposedly "violations".
F. All these points makes me doubt the transparency and intentions here. It sounds more like an intention to undermine 1 of the currect rabonim for personal or other reasons …..
hard working ch guy
they are both wrong and we all know why chanina put in shvei now hes saying the vaah hakohol shouldnt be involved? and rubashkin is wrong bec its not the job of the vaad hakohol to do this they should get back to their desk and something for once for the benefit of the community
its about time they think of themself and use us for it
why is most of the CH going to willi to get fod cards? why is the crime still going up? why are so many people without jobs food or money
trm
Mr. Anon,
If you look at the directives of the rebbe regarding the nitzigim, the only job that they had was to elect rabonim, NOT to monitor the Vaad.
As a resident of CH I don’t understand why they think they have that power.
shmerelberel
whats "netzigim" and "mas hakohol"
moving forward
transparent,
The fact remains the the previous election was a farce. where in the democratic world is their an election with only one person on the ballot?
The fact that the community doesnt do anything about that is one thing, but not to recognize this error is being naive, and doesnt help us from movig forward.
May we be zoche to greet moshiach with a complete, impartial, and upstanding beis din that was formed/based on the rebbes wishes.
sr41
well said, ‘transparen?’ I totally a agree with you.
You know; its so cool to see a discusion like this where people are’nt furious at each other, as is on other such site.
Let’s think with logic!
When rabbi shwai was elected we ask rabbi asdoba for he is the rav now that rabbi shwai is also rav we have to ask rabbi shwai if he agrees to!
LISTEN TO THE RABONIM
How could rubashkin tell the rabonim what to do?
Rabbi shwai shlita said NO WAY!
And rabbi asdoba said before the election that segal can’t be rav!
segal is not a rav
However knows segal knows that he can’t be rav just ask the bochurim in ohoei torah he is a good magid shiur has a very good head BUT NOT A RAV
What a Busha
I think its a Busha V’Cherpa that a guy like Chanina represents our community! He is not fit for the job, he can be Rabbi Groners shamosh! NOT A VAAD MEMBER!
CHUTZPAH!!!
How dare Moshe R. questuion a Rov who was elected democratically in the same manner he himself was elected?
And just for the record; Rabbi Schwei received more votes than Rabbi Osdobo!!!
and besides rabbi Osdobo gave his full haskamah and Bracha for Rabbi Schwei to become part of the Beis Din, Its a Public record, everyone received his letter suporting Rabbi Schwei in the mail!!!!!
Is Rabbi Schwei too powerfull ? why else would you discredit a Chasidishe Rov who was voted in and got more votes than Rabbi Osdoba?
A MEMBER OF ANASH
When these elections do happen who will be able to vote?
If it is really a community vote the woman and men that are not married should and must be able to vote in order to make it a true democratic procces!!!
mendel
moshe rubashkin, harvy lang, and shmuel plotkin deceived the community before the elections. they all claimed to be on good terms with both rabonim, and that their primary mission will be to bring peace between the rabonim. they have done none of the sort. what they have managed to do is to undermine R’ shvei in every possible way, looking for a way to eventually throw him out and remive power and respect from him. what exactly is the difference when yanki herzog gave disrespect to R’ ozdoba, and R’ ozdoba ordered him off the vaad hokohol, and now when moshe rubashkin and segal show open and public disrespect to R’ shvei, it is all kosher?! sho’mu shomaim!
moshe rubashkin and co. have escalated the machlokes to such a degree that has never been before (more than what yanki herzog and yossel katzman did).
if there were elections next week for vaad hakohol, i don’t believe that moshe rubashkin and co. have a chance of getting in again.
It-s all about the Kinderlach
Moishe R. has tried so hard to bring peace and harmony between the Rabbonim for the betttermentof the community. Unfortunately this effort has not been blessed with success. Now wehave all kinds of people writing comments that they should do more and the chutzpah etc. This is a brainstorm of an IDEA!!! We can’t get peace so let’s get more Rabbonim and let the majority rule. All this nonsense about who was offended is clouding the real issue, Our Schunah and Community". The fires of Hell are burning up the Ruchnius of this community and we’re busy about who’s being offended. The enviroment created by the dissenting members of the Vaad has made it impossible to work with them in a civilized atmosphere including Chanina’s insistence on being the Chairman after he just managed to get in.
original ntzig
maybe we’re finally getting to the point where we can call a spade a spade. With regard to what the ntzigim do, there are clear by-laws by which they are supposed to operate. Anyone can find out what they are and judge whether they are operating properly. As regards rabbonim, people have worked overtime to convince the kehilla that Rav Schwei is every bit the equal of Rav Osdoba. Now it’s time to tell it like it is. The only sense in which the two rabbonim are equal is that if they were to sit on the same din Torah each would have only one vote. There is no comparison between the two in terms of experience, and anyone coming into a new situation that doesn’t take the time to get comfortable and knowledgeable before he begins to PUBLICLY CONTRADICT his colleague is following an agenda that certainly is not in the community’s interest.
worried
im worried who rubashkin has in mind to place as rabbonim. perhaps Bogomilsky the outcast!!! oy vay!!!
maven
Bizzarre internicine battles hae been waging within Chabad for generations. Fighting among the Chassidim of CH has been going on for so many decades that is has become a way of life. It is practically endemic to the culture of the neighborhood to pick a side and brandish verbal swords (and on some occassions physical fights have erupted) on almost every single issue. And yet, these are the same people who scream about ahavas yisroel, achdus, and bringing Moshiach (another issue they argue about incessantly day and night too).
This makes one wonder if they live by the ideals of Chabad at all. The lack of internalization of Chassidic principles is the heart of the problem, and it all comes down to education. If these people were given a good solid Torah education, and if they learned and internalized the concepts and halachas of loshon hora, having melamud zchus, and the avodah as taught by the Alter Rebbe’s Tanya, would they be behainvg in such a tribal and primitive manner? Most likley not, they would be more refined, more civil, less divided, and surely more organized and functional as a community.
So before arguing the pros and cons of each side of every issue, we should look inside our educational systems and inside ourselves for the answers as to why so many in the CH community behaves as if they never even heard of the Tanya let alone learned it.
to worried
hey, A) I dont think rubashkin is that crazy and stupid to place bagamilsky on the list. and B) even if he does make it to the list (which again, 99.99999% he wont) poeple will never vote for him. he has absolutely no liking of following in our community. besides for all the machalokes he has caused. and all the filth that he has created for his own agenda, he has allowed Lubavich yeshiva Ocean Parkway to rot away under his nose for over a decade. poeple know who he is and what hes about. henceforth, no need to worry
Very Concerned
It’s amazing how when it comes to a mugging there are one or two comments but when it comes to machlokes and politics suddenly there are tons of arguments for each side. What is it about machlokes amongst Jews that perks us all up and causes us to get involved and further fan the flames? It is a sad shame that we are so motivated by politics and strife amongst Jews?
rubashkin is a krook
just remmeber before the election rubashkin said that he wll not make shlome with the rabonim for i am nogea bedavor what happnd now???????????????
for the good of the hood
Chanina is going nuts that Moishe won’t let him sit as ‘Rosh’ even though he got the least amount of votes. Chanina..go run to mommy…she’ll pay and cover it all up for you.
outspoken
what machlokes did bigomilsky make? unless you are refering to his crazy brother peasch shmuel.
crown heights wishes they have a rov like bigomilsky or shapiro
A little Kabbalos Ol
Osdoba is a member of the Beis Din that was formed in elections under the Rebbe’s guidance. We should all hold from his word as Morah D’Asrah.
jas
bichlal, a rov needs to be open minded about machlokesin in the shchunah. we need to al least have 1 rov from each side of the politcal spectrum. because as of now the meshichist (aka anti-rebbe) rabbonim allianted the pro-rebbe faction of the community by declaring one sided statments always in favor of the messhicist extremist without even listening to the other side of the spectrum.
a rov needs to be able to heal the rift in the shcnua and not take sides of the rip and tear even more.
when scwei was sworn in the BM inquired of him what he has to say who "still dont belive that the rebbe is moshiach" and he replied in nice words that they can go to h@#$.
i say we should place rabbonim that either will not take sides, or at least rabbonim from both spectrums.
the general feeling by those who are still following the rebbes directives (aka the anits) is that they happen to live in CH but have nothing to do with the community, they don’t pay the mas hakohol cuz they are not listend to and the whole purpose of the chjcc is against them. and the vaad hakohol went against the rebbe with elcecting gaboyim and by restarting the netzigim and by fighting aguch and merkos, and ULY.
just by this past vaad elections there was talks between moshe rubashkin and anti leaders, that brought the antis to vote (only for vaad hakhol), and voted in rubashkin.
remmber marlow smiling when there was a fight in 770 on hey teves? what kind of rov laughs when his community is fighting? (unless it’s not his community)
only when we have open minded rabbonim can there be peace.
(look who was in the vaad all along and who stirs up the fights? yossi brook and his cronies, which btw thw rebbe wrote about yossi brook that he spreads fights (holech rachil) and the rebbe wrote about the vaad that the caused all the fights (during the fisher – gaboyim era)
MFH
Personally speaking, i think that moshe rubashkin is the best character on the "Rechter" that i have ever seen. Maybe, just maybe, he will succeed in bringing this community together
(Webby, i am busy and sick. excuse me)
MFH (Again)
"Ask any bochur in OT about segal… he isn’t a rov"
What do a few bochurim in Oholei Torah know about Rabbonus?
Wake Up
If the So-called Ra-Bonim would stop fighting against the Rebbe ZY"A and his mosdos by allowing the (circus)Kinnus Sat. night in 770,allowing the Oslo siddurim in 770 , allowing the ato horeiso to be sold for kupas rabbeinu which is an open milchomo againgst the rebbe zy"a perhaps there can be peace amongst themself and the entire shecunah. So wake up and smell the coffee before it’s too late.
Crown Heights Chronicler
Maybe if Chanina would take his meds and stop listening to Yankev Hertzog in the early morning hours when they should be home…Maybe if Chanina would stop the attacks he’s put up to by the man who created him (politically), Leibush Nash,,,maybe if Chanina would be a mentsch and serve the Vaad as one of five, not as one of one…maybe if everybody would just stop, learn, listen learn the rules, and stop all this meshugana ranting…somebody can get something done. ANd Moshe…get your success stories across…the funds from NYC, kavod from Mayor Bloomberg….Chanina never misses a photo lens….maybe Moshe should get a Kodak, too! But only to show success stories, not empty smiles with phony pols.
Don-t dilute the truth
Please don’t overlook the truth just because you are in the heat of things. I am a bochur who spent a few years in Oholei Torah. Rabbi Segal is nothing but class, honest, and someone who stands up for Halocho, and not an agenda. There is a reason that he is little known. Unless it is Halocha he doesn’t mix in. He isn’t looking for attention. He isn’t looking to take sides, or spread fights. So please don’t make comments like "Ask any OT bochur…" It so=imply isn’t the truth. The only thing that may be close to the truth is that he wouldn’t be interested in being a major force in the BD, because he isn’t interested in fighting which seems to be the only way things get done in CH. That is a very unfortunate thing. But one thing is for certain. Rabbi S. Segal is very qualified for the position!
in answer to jas ignorance
yo jas from your statements you prove that you have absolutely no idea of hwat is going on? how many of the 3 rabinnim hold of yechi, that you say they are all meshichstim. also you reffer do them as anti-rebbe. im sure you know as much shulchan aruch as them and can therefore decide whether its write al pi shulchan aruch to be a meshichist. also, you asked, what knda of rav smiles….. are you trying to say that he c"v was not a real rov? the av beth din who was elected by most of the comunity, someone who the rebbe refferd to as an ish halacha, abir shebuabirim, and will be ruv ad bias goel tzedeck. yes, this is ehat the REBBE said. so if theres anyone who is making anti-rebbe statements. its you sir. yitamu chataim velo chotim.
onlooker
someone wrote about schapiro being ruv??? let it be known that the man does not have semicha! he was once offered a good job provided he had semicha so reb zalman shimon dvorkin made him a paper on condition that right after the interview he return the paer to reb zalman shimon. which of course he didnt. and bogomilsky may have semicha and shimush but he sure aint no mentsch and yiras shamayim. next please!!!!!!!!
jas
for your info ever since the badatz was elected the fights in ch started! find out your facts. in the beginig the rebbe was happy and thought that it would be nice, till the rebbe got upset at them himslef.
(ask those who remmber)
to jas
of course it was not his comunity who was fighting. it was a bunch of alcoholics from detroit who came to ruin a farbrengen.
Transparent
A piece of paper dictated and fabricated by Moshe Rubashkin in not giving financials. Every elected member of the Vaad has the full right to know from where money comes in and where it goes THIS IS LAW and he is responsible by law if any wrong doing is done by others. He should have full access to all offices and documantation of JCC/Vaad. And here are the facts: Moshe Rubashkin refuses to give Chanina the statements and canceled checks of the Vaad Hakohol account. Moshe Rubashkin doesnt not show the financial to the audit committee of the Netzigim as per the bylaws of the kehila. There is clear instructions of the Rebbe that every mosad should have a vaad habikores which is the Netzigim organization. Even the must trustfull person in the world should not run a mosad tzedoko as a don yechidi especially an individual with a track record. The bottom line is, HE MUST SHOW THE RECORDS. The schuneh is under a dictatorship run be a despot that does what he wants and may chasvesholom take us down like he did with his own businesses and his own life.
jas does not listen to sichos
remember when they didnt give the ruv his aliyah?? remember how the rebbe screamed? another anti-rebbe statement, the chas vesholom the rebbes teaching are temporary. gevald!!!!!!!! oh, what a bitter golus. poeple dont have shame to write on a public forum that they are eveil and bitter!
jas and also
rember how the organizer of the kinus hashluchim had the audasity not to invite the rabomim, how the rebbe screamed at farbrengen??? and made him go over to the rabonim at the farbrengen and beg mechilah?? well, today they know that they wont have to be publicly shamed again and therefore dont have to bother inviting the rabonim.
MFH
to jas and "jas and also" everyone knows these lines already.. i’m sure the rebbe directed YK to go down on his knees and beg for mechila. the rebbe simply asked that they be invited.
do we always have to exaggerate?
bogomilsky
bugo??? how can he be a dayan? hes not sonei butza, nor is he humble nor is he liked by people nor does he like people. the minimum qualifications of being a dayan!
maven
Marlow was liked by people? Osdoba is liked by people? Feared is more like it. Despised, or used, by many too.
CH has suffered from a dearth of leaderhsip for years simply because all the best and most competent people leave and go on shlichus. CH suffers from a brain drain, and is left with the slim pickings from the bottom of the barrel.
CH could never even get it together enough to have a decent playground. And we say we are pro-family? What is there in CH that exists to aid and abet parents raising large families?
Compare CH to the other frum kehillot and we come up looking like the most corrupt, the most disgraceful and the kehillah that is the least liveable for frummer Yidden.
And how can we expect to mekarev high caliber people when 770 is a pigsty b’gashmias. Litter everywhere, filthy bathrooms, etc. What message does this give to newcomers about the great Lubavitcher Rebbe and his movement? It is a complete ness that outsiders wind up becoming interested in Yiddishkeit at all and the fact that they do so is a reflection not on us, but despite us, and reflects on the greatness of the Rebbe.
While Rabbonim and wannabe pols beat their breasts in tribal calls to power, the CH community wallows in neglect of it members’ needs.
detector of memory deficit disoder
people have such short memory spans. Rabbi Shvey did not want this dirty job- the vad hakahal begged him that only he can save the community. But because he’s not nispael from people who have money and try to manipulate din Torahs in their favor- he’s in trouble. He is interested in Emes only, and that’s what will prevail
disgusted
some think that Rabbonim are puppetts that they can ‘pull their strings’. When R’ Shvey would not bend to their unrelenting pressure to abide by their wishes, and not be a puppet- well, it’s time to look for some good, obedient puppets~! It makes me wonder about their adherance to Toras Emes if that’s the way they treat Rabbonim
to not so maven
First of all how dare you reffer to rabonim (especialy the rebbes mentchen) by merely theyre last name??? Also, no ruv will be liked by all as for every din torah another looser and enemy is created. (except of course yechidei segulah who lost and respected the psak). but in general Rabbi Marlow Z”L was a person whom most respected. he wasted no time and played no games with people. Rabbi Marlow was a mentch to the fullest extent. Also, it is not advisable to mess with a shoichen afar. Rabbi Azdobo was put in to a very hard position ever since the passing of Rav Marlow and he should be judged accordingly. he has no one to work with. and that again goes to show the greatness of Rav Marlow that he has strong leadership skills and these Beth Din problems were eighther non existent, solved and not hung up in the public for everyone to see. if only there were more people like Rav Marlow…… Chaval d’avdin velo mishtakchin
berelshmerel
um yeh still noone tld me wut netzigim n’ mas hakohol are…
Distressed on Carroll
Sounds like "Transpararent" is Yankev Hertzog writing things for Chanina (who does not). Let’s look it up: there is no appointed Netzigim Audit Committee at this time. The committee, if appointed, has the responsibility to review the financial situation of the CHJCC, not the Vaad.
The CHJCC tax returns are public records, in fact on the internet as a not for profit.
Chanina refused to cooperate with the Netzigim when he was Chair (which he and Hertzog stole from that Vaad’s top vote getter, Noochie Gross).
Chanina was secretive and relied on Hertzog for his power. Rabbi Osdoba greatly regrets the beis din ruling directing Gross to cooperate with Chanina as well as not having Hertzog permanently removed from the Vaad.
Ask any member of the Netzigim about the CHJCC records and he will tell you about the financial records.
19 members met with Rubashkin and got a full acccounting, and asked that new elections for Netzigim officers be conducted because the puppets elected on the Leibush Nash-sponsored watch have only one agenda: impeach Rubashkin, Lang, Plotkin, and make Sperlin–the lowest votegetter in the last election-Chairman again.
MFH
Nobody knows what Mas Hakahal is since they don’t pay it to a corrupt system. sure, it’s easy to vent hot air, but half of the people posting here – pro or con – don’t really care, and would use either side of the argument to whatever suits them.
Mas Hakahal is an annual amount that is paid to the community council. lit. "community dues" – the rabbonim get their salary from this.
Netzigim (lit. delegate, representative) is one who oversees the welfare of his area. together, they form some kind of congress… (yeah, right)
amazed!
OMG WOW!!!!
i think this has got to be the record for the most comments. lol
Berl
1) To JAS: Everyone knows that the isue of "inviting the Badatz to the Kinnus Hasluchim"is a complete farce (fabricated by Label Groner).
2) Rabbi Marlow, may he rest in peace, was a compleat failure as far as leading a community or sitting on Din-Toras (just ask anyone who was involved with him). He basicly knew some Hilcos Shabbos.
3) By the way Leibel Groner also spraed a rumer that once by Farbrengen the Rebbe called Rabbi Marlow "a Ish Halach" – no one seems to remember when this ever happened…!
someone who is againts machlokos
one thing is for sure that what is happening here isn’t helping the situation what we need is moshiach and through sinas chinam and talking loshon hora definantly isn’t helping him come.
so if anybody really cared they would shut up and do whatever is in their power to correct this problem by doing acts of good deeds and kindness to help bring moshiach.
Beg For Mechilah
Berl you are the lowest creature on the face of this planet. How dare you speak about a Rov like that. I suspect your last name is Fisher or you get a salary by a man wih that last name.
Besides it is well known what is brought down in Sforim about someone who speaks about a person that is in Olom Hoemes. I sugest you ask Mechilah on this site where you spew your hatred as well as go to the Rov’s Kever and beg for Mechilah to avoid any unwanted result Chas Vsholom.
someone who was involved with Rabbi M...
berl if i was you i would shut my mouth because all you are doing is showing how stupid and ignorant you are anybody who had anything to do with Rabbi Marlow, may he rest in peace, knew how smart he was and how well versed he was in halacha so stop making a fool out of yourself.
A Jew
What a pitty the Kohol (or those individuals at the time) decided to choose their rov, and they did not ask the Rebbe to give them a rov, as the rebbe did until then (with Rabbi Dvorkin who was on the Rebbes pay roll).
Amazing that the whole world is filled with shluchim, all leave from 770, and are appointed by the Rebbe (Merkos, the system the Rebbe made), there are no votes or polls etc. However, Crown Heights, were the Rebbe lived and operated from, and who’s overwhelming majority are chassidim of the Rebbe! They could not rely on the appointment of the Rebbe (and the system he put into place) but have a voting system.
Maybe it is time, for some serious minded individuals to turn to the Rebbe (Merkos) and ask for a shliach to Crown Heights, to setup a community there, maybe like ginsburg is doing in boro park….
Berel-s Counselor
Berl you are a very bitter person. It seems from your writing that you had a Din Torah but you lost. Thus the reason for your bitternes.
I suggest you go to counseling. Otherwise you may end up taking medication to deal with your deep anger/Depression/Anxiety.
Dont forget that in a Din Torah one side is going to lose. There is no two ways about it.
I think you just need to accept the fact that you lost the Din Torah and put it behind you, cause counseling could get expensive.
rebainu av bais din
I would like to add that simply let Rabbi O put up a candidate and let Rabbi S put up a candidate and let the entire community vote.
I think that is why they are so scared to let the election continue.
Reb Moshe I love you keep up the work that only you can do.
upset out of townder
it is very sad how everything needs to be a machlokes here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whre i come from, where is very little fighting, lots of communication, and people trying ttheir best to get along. sadly, thats not the case here and im bothered by this.
Berl
Wasn’t it Rabbi Marlow and Rabbi Osdaba whe wrote in an openletter that "Bli Shum Pikpuk" the Rebbe stole money from the Yeshiva…! Rachmana Lizlan.
a tremendos "Avla" from their part.
All you farmers continue to live in a dream world!
No wonder the Rebbe never gave the Badaz permission to use the name ‘Lubavitch"! They are a discrace for Lubavitch
NoLongerBored,OT-Bochur
First of all, not trying to be disrepectful, but Rabbi Schwei is not suitible to be a Rav, Rabbi Marlow and even Rabbi Ozdoba, lived and continue to be Living Examples, now I’m not talking about as far as being an example for life, I’m talking about Paskening, when you judge in favour of someone not b/c that’s what the halacha is or b/c he heard both sides and this is according to halacha, as a Rov you are not allowed to take favours from ppl, this guy (schwei) lives for the Kovod, he takes advantage of it by getting rides from ppl (which we know Rov Marlow would never even when offered) all the time, and using ppl.
He never served under a Rav which would render his Dayanis.
He’s a fake and shouldn’t be on the beis din!!
If I have a company can any worker come in and ask for my Books, the answer obviously is NO, on the other hand if I am on the board and am an active investor then yes I’m entitled to know where the money is going and what’s happening to it, the netzigim that don’t pay the Mas Ha’kol, don’t support the community and Rubashkin has a right to deny showing them the books.
sr41
TO ALL:
check out the article entitled:
"2 Cars Collide At President & Albany"
and look at the last picture
to berl and his counselor
Anyone who can say that Rabbi Marlow "Basicly knew Hilchos Shabbos" is an outright idiot. even his biggest apponents will tell you that he was buki in all of shas and poskim. he also knew the entire torah by heart including but not limited to the targum (yes by heart) and Rashi. so if you have the ignorance to say what you said about R Marlow, maybe you also say the world is square??????
A reader of CrowhHeights.info
as a reader of CrownHeightsInfo I would like to let all other readers know that I think some of these comments are disscusting and aweful. If you enjoy posting hate comments, just keep in mind that you are making a fool of yourself, you’re an embarrasment to this site and to Lubavitch. Its not the Rabbonim or political figures who are to blame because these comments are mostly untrue and lies.
I DO NOT WANT TO READ THE HATE COMMENTS. I ASK THAT ANYONE WHO AGREES WITH ME SPEAK UP AND LET IT BE KNOWN THAT THESE COMMENTS ARE UNACCEPTABLE EVEN IF THEY ARE TRUE.
and to webby you’ve said some time ago that you were going to start filtering these comments, as a reader and lover of this site, I’m still waiting.
P.s. I’d like to compliment all those who have posted kind, pleasant and humane comments for my reading pleasure.
Stop
I think we shold stop theses comments. Everyone feels better now that they got their cooments off their chests. No reason any longer to trash Rabonim be it Marlow,Bogomilsky, Shapiro, SDchewi, Osdoba etc.
Enough is enough
OT bochur
65 comments plus ! i think this beats the record high.
Berel-s Psychiotrist
Berl it just goes to show you how much you know about the Rebbe and Lubavitch. The Rebbe is the one who wanted the Rabonim to be elected so that people who lose a Din Torah will still be obligated to listen to the Psak. Otherwise people will have excuses that this Rov dosent have jurisdiction over me etc. So it was the Rebbe who wanted elections.
I know in Detroit you are told that the Rebbe didnt want the whole thing but "The Farmers in Crown Heights Forced The Rebbe th Accept these Rabonim" how redicilous and absurd for any normal Lubavitcher to belive this foolish nonsense. its only out of your hatred and evil-heart you spew such lies and hate.
Its amazing how you refer to Merkos as the Rebbe. You are a young fool who dosn’t know his head from his toe. You know nothing about Merkos or Lubavitch. You were indoctrinated by these old fools of Detroit and you think you figured out Lubavitch. You missed the boat. You have no understanding of what Rebbe or Lubavitch mean. How sad. you are simply clueles. Go back to yeshivah and open a sefer and then come back and tell me what the rebbe considers Lubavitch and what not.
Genug
How dare you make fun / trash etc. rabonim who know more Torah then you. Yes there is a concept of Kovod hatorah.
Genug shoin
ah freilichen shabbos mevorchim adar
MFH
The comments are getting out of hand. If there is something slightly rational and logical to be said, then say it.
As per the Rebbe being Merkos and Merkos being the Rebbe (Kana"l): certainly the rebbe had appointed merkos to head all matters – all juresdictable matters – in lubavitch, this is what the rebbe asked to be done. the question here arises: is crown heights under the control of merkos? or, is crown heights under the "control of the Rebbe" certainly crown heights should be following the rebbe’s directives, but is Merkos the boss of CH? Since merkos is not the boss over CH, they can also not control the rabbonim that govern CH – especially when the "Rebbe" in merkos in only an indirect form.
The Rebbe was neither "forced" into doing anything, nor was the decision for these rabbonim a choice which was "min hamuvchar". Fact of the matter is that the Rabbonim have nobody in charge of them except the Shchuna – the people who are under their authority – the shcuna has a right to appoint rabbonim and the shchuna has a right to remove them when they see it fit. the sh’chuna is represented by a (hopefuly) popular vote. i’m having trouble understanding why this concept is so unacceptable
Sad Reality
Merkos has shown that it is not the Rebbe who is in control rather its the "Rebbe’s Office" that is in control of Lubavitch.
Transparent
Distressed on Carroll got it all wrong – didnt you vote in the elections for JCC and Vaad? aren’t they officers of both? so the netzigim are for both- you right the JCC records are not the problem here, with those records they have to be carefull because many government programs fund the JCC, but the real problem is the Vaad accounts (KASHRUS INCLUDED) and who is runningit? someone on probation with a track record that no one wishes to have. Netzigim requested financial statements as per bylaws and also requested cooperation with the audit comitee to show the books and that’s what Moshe Rubashkin doesn’t like. You wonder why? we all do!
wow
berels pshycologist is so right. you could have not sid it better shkoyach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MFH
Transparent, Moshe Rubashkin’s track record is relevant to himself and the government. i am not aware of the fact that he stole any money from the community (as opposed to the failed "Reshimas Habatim" system and other failed projects of the VHK/JCC.
Transparent, I can almost guarantee that you have commited the same crimes as Moshe Rubashkin has, only on a smaller scale (Or on the same scale, but you were never caught). R’ Moshe is a chevremahn, and you don’t like his straight-forward attitude and his disregard for bureaucracy – which is the false wall of "Emes" dividing much of the community.
jas
to all thos who have no idea what they are talking about.
there is a genral rule "acharey mos kedoshim" i thought it was a joke, till i see the way people refer to r. marlow. if you would of been around you would know that a. as berel said he just knew hilchos shabbos (and very well i must add) b. he was not a normal mentch (no offense there just fact) c. he did not know shas and poskim as somone posted here d. he had know idea whatsoever in the badatz kashrus, and this is true. he visited postville 2 times in his life, he didnt know how to look at a chalef and all kashrus problams with the hechsher he referd them to none other then yossi brook (the low-life about whom the rebbe did not have good things to say about – for another time). there is no point inmaking marlow into a g-d. he just wasn’t it.
btw the rabbonim that give hecsherim to the other meats at agri come often to check up, mah shein kein badatz.
another point; the whole ahvah milk was started as a fight aginst r’ zalmen shimon, till his very last day he was bothered by the new milk that osdabo made, zalmen shimons milk was called "shefa milk" (i doubt anyone here knows bout this because you are all pishers who were just born and think you have a deah in lubavitch) and osdabo made a milk called "ahava milk" against the rov of lubavitch. zalmen shimon was so mad he wrote a very storng letter agianst osdabo and his milk describing his personal reservations about osdabo (i will not get explicit here) and the porblems with his new milk (which the probles exsitied for a long time after)
so osdabo who fought in public with the respected and true rov of lubavitch (who under his care there was achdus in lubavitch and only after badatz was formed did machlokes start) how can u expect somone to give kovod to badatz he they didnt give kovod to the ones greater then them?
i know berel and i know that he spent much more hours with marlow then anyone who commented here (i am positive about this) and what he said was true
and wnother myth that i mant to address, as berel pointed out that certain things were said by groner and no one else seems to remmber it. it is known (and became clearer l’achroina) that groner poshut went and did things b’sheym the rebbe that the rebbe did not know about (b’gashmiyus al pi tevah) and he said things aboth the rebbe which hot nit geshtogen un nit geflogen. anyone hear of the irgun gag in israel? (doubt it you are to young to remmber) well the whole undoing of the irgun was from groner, and teh rebbe still used to refer things to them after the "rebbe"’ disbanded it (they poshut couldnt understand why the rebbe is still sending things to them if the rebbe said to cease to function) it was found out afterwards that groner made the whole thing up b’das atzmo and used the rebbes name in vain
and another thing bout groner he was not a mazkir till 1990 (he was a mishamesh till then, just like chaim liberman)
maven
I agree with everything jas wrote. I might add, for those who are too young to remember, that Abba Paltiel, the Rabbonim (Marlow, Osdoba, and Heller) and his cohorts used to embarras people in public and terrorize them if they were at all sympathetic to Fischer. They were absolutely obssessed with their all consuming hatred and machlokes with Fischer and spent almost all their time and community funds on the court cases, while claiming it was all for the sake fo the Rebbe and the schuchna.
They took money for an hachnasas orchim mosod and never built it, even though the Rebbe requested it. One prominent supporter of the old Vaad made his fortune from pocketting government funds that were meant to go to food lunch programs for our kids. And Spielman was notorius for siding with the anti-Semitic police as our local kapo. He also left Yankel Rosenbaum (a’H) alone in the all black hospital during the riots without calling any other Jewish doctor official.
They ran a dictatorship whereby anyone who dared to have a differing opinion was accussed of lacking ‘kovod for the Rabbonim’ and was slandered, their reputations ruined, and they closed doors in their faces.
They called themselves the Zayin Tu V’aIr, the seven holy ones of the city, when the Rebbe said they were not that at all.
Just ask around and you may find that there are many people in CH who were terrorized by that Vadd Hakahol and the Rabbbonim. Now that one has passed away, one is out of the picture, and there is only one left, people will speak as they have no reason to fear them anymore.
to jas and berel
A) I think jas & Berel are the same person. trying to make his voice heard. B) again, only an idiot can denounce Rav Marlow zichrono livracha’s bekius. and C) the arguement here is about the present rabonim, but you find it necessary to keep on bring up someone who is a shoichen afar. just to bashmutzig him, with no other agenda. it seems that you have lost a huge din torah and are still very furious. otherwise, I cant see why you would keep on bashing him. he is resting in peace, but you still find it necessary to bring him up. well, watch out.
me2
i love the specialsits who all of a sudden know what type of problems berel is suffering; "deep anger/ Depression/ Anxiety"
you guys think that anyone who dosnt hold like you (or knows better than you) must have some sort of issues, psychological if not spiritul.
maybe you should listen to what he has to say, "sh’al avicha v’yageidcha" listen to those who know better then you.
may we be zoiche for the day when all the shotim will realize that the rebbe is the rebbe and hashem hu haelokim and then there will need to be accounting for all the worngs of the badatz before the rebbe.
menashe
everyone knows the wrongs of r’ marlow and r’ osdabo, it is all true. but do we need to open this can of worms now? they will be judged one day for their deeds. but why start this thing all over again? it is bad enough that r’ marlow called the rebbe a ganev and went against teh rebbe’s wishes many times (with gaboyim, tzavah, merkos, aguch, yeshiva..) but why do we have to reopen these painfull files? it should not even be a issue to talk about. they did the bad stuff they did and i’m sure r’ marlow regrets it by now and r’ osdabo probably also regrets by now.
there is a reason why r’ heller left the beis din, it was after a big contreverisal case which cause a great rift in crown heights, and then his wife passed away (l"a). (c"v to say as a punsihment for this, becuase this is none of our business), so he saw mchlokes and decided that the best thing is to leave. (i dont think he sat on a din torah since then).
as kovod for the niftar – r’ marlow there is no reason to say in public his sins as a public figure.
We should merit the coming of the moshiach speedily in our days.
a note; once by the meal on shvuos by the rebbe a chossid said a joke which was a negetive remark about jews in general, the rebbe used to always laugh at his jokes but this time came serious and said that he does not like it cuz it is not nice about jews, se the rebbe told him to right away say a maleh – a good thing about yidden
so i take this opportunity to say something nice about r’ marlow: he knew hilchos shabbos very well (it was the main subject that he knew in shulchan aruch, this he was baki in)
eli r.
menashe,
about most of your rambles i agree with you, but just one thing i want you to remmber that yo yourself while saying how you should not talk bad, you urself mention what not to talk about, which i think is a bit odd.
Avraham Tzvi Ben Asher Zeillig
jas: how dare you mention chaim liberman on a lubavitcher website! do u not know how much pain he caused the rebbe? (on second thaught he isnt the only names on this pages which caused pain to the rebbe, but i will not carry on my thoughts)
sr41
Jas you’re a sick man!
to write horrible lies, and I repeat lies, about others like that you gotto be ashamed of yourself. You are a disgrace to yourself and to your surroundings.
I can go through all the things you wrote and prove you wrong on 90% of it but I feel I will get nowhere because you have written it out of pure hate. And even if some of the accusations are true you should still be ashamed for the way you write.
Please get off this site – don’t get the whole community mixed into your dirty politics.
jas
why dose everyone think that if one does not hold of him he is for sure wrong tand therfore all people writing in the same manner are the same person.
get it into your heads, many people differ from you and say (and know) that you are wrong
i never had a din torah in the badatz and i would never go there to call someone for a din torah.
i just like stating and calrifying th facts.
but as somone pointed out i will not go into more details of how marlow and his assoc. have gone aginst the rebbe.
just keep in mind that the pro-rebbe faction of lubavitch (lubavitch to be more precise – cuz those meshchistim and anti-rebbe ppl are not part of lubavitch) are 100% right and it is just some jealus ppl who also want a say in lubavitch so they start fighting the rebbe and lubavtich.
the rebbe will prevail and all his adversaries will fall
we will be zoche very soon for the besurah that eretz yisroel byadenu and beis hamikdahs b’yadenu, starting with the upcoming b’suro that 770 will go back to the hands of the rebbe and to the lubavitcher cahssidim and the thugs who call tehmselves the gabboyim will have to flee, and then moshiach will come and take us out of goulus.. amen
Reb Dave
I do not understand why anybody would want to be Lubavitch or Frum with the hate that Beryl and Jas write.
You both should think how are you bringing Moshiach with what you write.
I-m sick of this!
to JAS,
You dont understand how corrupt you really are, Its a pitty. i totally agree with rs41- please stop writing.
YOUR POLITICS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ARTICLE!
LETS STAY ON SUBJECT!
FROM THE WAY YOU WRITE – YOU EXPRESS PURE HATE AND NOTHING SENSABLE. I TOO HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RABBONIM, VHK OR LUBAVITCH BUT I WOULD NEVER SPEAK LIKE THAT ABOUT ANY JEW.
please tell me your not a lubavitcher – because Lubavitchers are people that I respect, through all the politics and stupidity, its understandable it happens in every community. But the way you speak is discusting!! please tell me you’re not Lubavitch.
Need we say more
TODAY’S HAYOM YOM
Ahava, affection, is the breath of life in the Avoda of Chassidus. It is the thread that binds chassidim to each other, that binds Rebbe to chassidim and chassidim to Rebbe. Ahava works in a direct way (initiated affection) and also in a reflective way (responding to the other’s affection). It knows no barriers and transcends the limits of time and place.
Compiled and arranged by the Lubavitcher Rebbe in 5703 (1943) from the talks and letters of the Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe.
The EAR
woa thats a lot of comments….can anyone in short explain the polotics and whats going on?
what a coinsidence.
todays hayom yom:
Ahava, affection, is the breath of life in the Avoda of Chassidus. It is the thread that binds chassidim to each other, that binds Rebbe to chassidim and chassidim to Rebbe. Ahava works in a direct way (initiated affection) and also in a reflective way (responding to the other’s affection). It knows no barriers and transcends the limits of time and place.
Get real
The fact is the rebbe said the rabonim will be the rabonim biz bias moshiach Fact 2 heller hasnt signed anything in like 15 yrs and shvei wasnt isnt a rav hes a school teacher the only rav is osdobo and whoever mentioned harvey lang please harvey lang is a fool as is rest of the vaad they want new guys so they could play with the kehila you want to let them let them see what happens itll be D. fisher part 2 this time with a known CONVICT in the drivers seat
Pashkviln
I just want to make an obsrvation for all the writters of comments and tguvot. stop and think for a minute, aren’t this comments pashkviln? Remember what the Rebbe said about pashkviln 1. oiver on "make reehu basoser" 2. hot milchome mit mir! All sites should have in mind that by allowing this you are machtee es horabim and oiver lifnei iver … Tekabel es hoemes meemi sheomro
Eli
Seems people like to repeat their ignorance,
so here are some facts in historical order as I recall them, if I am wrong please cite your source:
A Rabbi Marlow was originaly drafted on to Vaad Rabonei Lubavitch by D Fisher, who thought (correctly) that rabbi marlow being a quiet person wouldn’t cause him much trouble in VRL and would be another rov he can use in his rubber stamp.
R’ Zalmen Shimon then appreciated him very much and used him dinei torah quite a few times as can be seen in many letters that have been published in different occasions several of which had rabbi Osdoba too)
B (silly point but it was metioned so i’ll address it)
ahava milk was started by the persian brothers and was suported by those in ch who appreciated competiotion withn ch while still being able to have a lubavitch rov’s hechsher.
JG ob"m may he have a lichtige gan eden really didnt like it since shefa was his company and he used his influence within VRL to get a letter against ahava (i dont remember if the letter was actually published but it was def written) .
I remember R’ Gavriel Shapiro (Rabbi Lippe’s son) saying as a result of that meeting he was so disgusted and would only buy ahava – a bit ironic considering later politics but that was then).
C kinus hashluchim invitation; biderman from vienna – who is notoriously neutral to a fault – has stated to many people on many occasions how he was involved in ensuring the rabbonim were invited in a respectful manner to the kinnus and had to inform the rebbe before farbrengen that they received the invite or the rebbe wouldnt come down, (he was so open about this thatBM once managed to get it out of him and pretend he agreed to be interviewed about this in bm which he naturaly wouldnt agree to since he knew they meant the politics and not lishmo)
I suspect thats the reason biderman avoids the kinnus though he participates in all other events of merkos and aguch in washington or ch.
Das to rabbi marlow only knowing hilchos shabbos, rabbi marlow had many faults, as every human being does, but it’s RIDULOUS !! he was an ish muram meiam, and rabbi heller related how when he needed some obscure source in hilchos mikvaos etc, (Rabbi H’s expertise!) rabbi marlow immediatly found it, he was an obvious sonei betza. true, he had an opinion about what the rebbe wanted in ch which i found difficult to agree with, but to defame such a mekushor to the rebbe because he didnt agree with you that everything merkos does is the rebbe himself???
or because some lies were repeated so often? who else stood with a broken foot so as not to disturb the rebbe’s farbrengen? who else of the shluchim was as botel as him to the rebbe? I can think of very few. it’s obvious those who are knocking him must be yunge pishers, since even hsi greatest enemies of a slighlty older age knew his true qualites as a chosid and mekushor and at worst thought he didnt act to cleverly and put his foot down enough to his constituents.
and mfh? while the rabbonim are apointed by the community they very obviously can’t be recalled by the voters according to the rebbe’s known view that rabonnim should be a life long position (even "rabbis" who dont fit the bill had that backing from the rebbe)
yes it seems the rebbe was disapointed with the badatz of ch in some ways but he was always very careful even after that to express his disatisfaction very quietly and hus support very publicly and even after that said the famous sice about how all matters pos 120 years should be asked of the local bes din "and I know they are chassidic rabbonim" to end of with the rebbe’s words.
Reysh Lukish
STOP STOP STOP
I really dont care who the rabanimm are, i am looking at he number of teen age boys and girls hanging out on the corner of kingston and eastern pkwy friday night, it hurts me every friday night that i cant bring my kids to 770, cus the kids out side have no one to look upto. truth be told its not only in our community that this going on, but show me that our community cares, cmon its chocking us.