The word is out that Lubavitch Yeshivas will not allow their bochurim to have cell phones beginning this year. The roshei yeshivos have banded together to ensure every bochur “exclusively dedicate(s himself) to spiritual pursuits and distance(s) himself from any and all distraction.” They announced the new ban to be rid of “a piece of equipment what can potentially undermine everything we stand for.”
Just like the bochurim headed off to yeshiva in a few weeks who are surely questioning the smarts of their roshei yeshiva, perhaps it’s important for the general community to ask the roshei yeshivos if they’re sure of the benefits that they allege this will provide. And that they’re prepared for the consequences and eventualities that this will no doubt cause.
Op-Ed: Cell Phones in Yeshiva: a Demand for Accountability
The word is out that Lubavitch Yeshivas will not allow their bochurim to have cell phones beginning this year. The roshei yeshivos have banded together to ensure every bochur “exclusively dedicate(s himself) to spiritual pursuits and distance(s) himself from any and all distraction.” They announced the new ban to be rid of “a piece of equipment what can potentially undermine everything we stand for.”
Just like the bochurim headed off to yeshiva in a few weeks who are surely questioning the smarts of their roshei yeshiva, perhaps it’s important for the general community to ask the roshei yeshivos if they’re sure of the benefits that they allege this will provide. And that they’re prepared for the consequences and eventualities that this will no doubt cause.
It’s surprising that this ban is being portrayed like it’s a chiddush. Five years ago, the summer before I went to yeshiva in Morristown, there was also a collective agreement made amongst a few roshei yeshivos – I believe at Yarchei Kallah – to ban cell phones. They felt the same way back then about how this is the way to save our souls – there was plenty of garbage available on cell phones then as well.
I used to believe in the sagaciousness of our roshei yeshivos, thinking they knew best and looked at things in the bigger picture. With a sense of bittul (conceptually, at least), I felt that they, because of their stature and experience, understood the secret to producing wholesome chassidishe bochurim. Not exactly deciding to throw my own cell phone away, I figured I’d come to Yeshiva and see how the new rule played out.
The rule was a miserable failure. You cannot fight with what people are going to do anyways.
Despite the sweeping ban, the majority of bochurim had cell phones in Morristown that year. Most guys were smart about not getting caught, burying their chargers in their sock drawer during the day and keeping their silenced cell phones on their persons. There was nobody that I remember being deterred from having a cell phone and “busts” were very few and far between.
The idea of banning cell phones was tried and failed. For the most part, it was silently buried.
Now, with cell phones providing their seeking users all sorts of unsavory images, music and videos, that are contrary to chassidishe values, the roshei yeshivos have devised a “new” ban. They have deliberated and concluded that their best avenue is to do away with cell phones altogether.
Inevitably, a lot of bochurim and parents will be incensed.
Did the roshei yeshivos give consideration to some of the compromises they can make that don’t “undermine everything that we stand for?” Have they considered that for all practical purposes, cell phones have become a necessity today? Did they take into account the reaction of bochurim and parents to their ban?
The best suggestion that I have for our reverential educators is that they pick necessary and winnable battles.
Unlike some of the other contraband items in yeshiva, cell phones are very pareve. Forbidding them has no basis in chassidishkeit and the issues related to them have very practical solutions.
Just like a school can demand a certain dress code for the benefits it provides in operating the school, let the roshei yeshiva limit cell phone usage only insofar as it actually distracts learning. Prohibit it during seder, demand disclosure of the call log, and confiscate the devices of those that misuse and abuse their obligations. If they feel strongly about it, let the roshei yeshiva require the “kosher phones.”
Cell phones can truly be a distraction to yeshiva bochurim. Bochurim should not be allowed to access inappropriate material and contact girls. Sending and receiving text messages and making calls during seder completely disrupts learning and quickly gets out of hand. The roshei yeshivos are doing the right thing trying to put a stop to it.
Even though limiting cell phone use is necessary, the way the roshei yeshiva are going about it doesn’t seem very prescient. The current mindset shows how detached the educators are today. They think they can outsmart the 21st century by limiting every possible outlet that Bochurim have. It’s simply not doable and it does estrange bochurim.
The roshei yeshivos have to stop being so elitist and start thinking about bettering the general Lubavitch population. They can’t enforce rules on the premise that one or two kids are going to be messed up by their lack of self-control, even while using the kosher phones. They are effectively pitting innumerable other bochurim against them, doing extensive and irreparable damage.
Bochurim believe the rule is unfair and they are ready to stand up for (or secretly hold on to) their belief. They will be criminalized for something mundane. Aren’t there enough contentious points that bochurim have with their roshei yeshiva? This will trivialize some of the other rules – the ones that truly keep Tomchei Temimim being the holy place that it is.
The roshei yeshiva must start thinking in terms of the reaction of all Bochurim, present and future, and they have to give consideration to the affects of their actions on their relationship with those they’re trying to effect. Right now, it seems that they’re losing the battle…
This ban portends, in my humble opinion, the absolute stratifying of Lubavitch of the future. As if there’s not enough disparity of attitudes today and an increasing disenchantment with the classic bochur mold, the Yeshivas are increasingly putting more barriers between themselves and willing, capable and talented bochurim.
In this day and age, most bochurim that go to zal are there by choice. Let’s give them a reason to want to stay.
Some other numbered points about the new ban:
1. What standard can the roshei yeshiva use to decide who gets to use a cell phone? In my experience, the heterim were given only to “nebach” bochurim.
2. By only allowing “the purely voice phone” with a special hetter, they will inevitably have to answer as to why one bochur gets the privilege and not another.
3. Telling bochurim to use payphones is impractical. In Morristown, for example, there are three payphones in the entire building and even when the majority of us had cell phones, there were always long lines for the payphones.
4. Telling bochurim to use payphones is an apologist’s excuse to avoid the underlying issues mentioned above
5. Telling parents to get a hold of their son by calling a payphone can be a grueling, futile and expensive proposition. Getting busy signals, hoping someone is around to pick up, hoping that someone is willing and can find their son wherever in the building he may be, and hoping that in the interim 20 minutes the phone won’t be hung up by some careless individual, are all standard frustrations for parents calling the payphones.
6. The roshei yeshivos and rebbeim will not follow suit themselves. I used to see rebbeim taking calls in the middle of seder and talking outside when they were supposed to be leading by example. Can they commit to not using their own phones while they’re in yeshiva?
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The following is the letter that was sent to parents:
AN OPEN LETTER TO PARENTS AND STUDENTS OF CHABAD-LUBAVITCH YESHIVOS
Summer 5768
A new academic year is almost upon us and we are all full of hope that it will be a successful year in terms of Torah study, the development of appropriate Yiras Shomayim and Chassidic behavior as well as deep rooted Hiskashrus to the Rebbe Z”YA. There can be no doubt that when a talmid devotes himself properly and completely to the yeshiva’s program which the Rabbayim instituted in Chabad yeshivos , he will reap the benefits of all the brochos which they continue to bestow.
From time to time Roshei Yeshiva and Mashpiim are called upon to collaborate and take an honest introspective look at our successes and at what is needs attention in our yeshivas, as our Chazal said “Tshuah B’Rov Yoetz”. It is our responsibility to collectively assess the needs and make necessary upgrades, adjustments and regulations as the facts warrant. After due deliberation we the undersigned have decided the following:
It is clear that a talmid learning in Tomchei Tmimim is called upon to be totally immersed in Torah and Tefilla and other than the few hours which he needs to leave the yeshiva for Mivtzoiim projects, he must be exclusively dedicated to spiritual pursuits and distance himself from any and all distraction; he should have no use for a cellular phone. In the event that the Hanhola of a particular yeshiva feels that a specific Bochur needs to have access to a personal cellular phone all yeshivas have collectively decided that the only cellular phone which will be permitted is “THE PURELY VOICE PHONE”’. There will be no exceptions.
It is unnecessary to elaborate about the need for this “Takono”, let it suffice to say that it is an imperative for both spiritual and practical reasons and that henceforth there can be no place for a piece of equipment what can potentially undermine everything we stand for.
We are hopeful that this united stand will add to “Taharas HoAvir” and we all be so will meritorious as to greet Moshiach Tzidkeinu immediately.
Yeshivas Oholei Menachem C.H.
Yeshivas Oholei Menachem, Bais Dovid Shlomo, New Haven
Yeshivas Tomchei Tmimim, Eastern Parkway
Yeshiva Menachem Mendel, Monsey
Yeshiva and Mesivta Ohr Elchonon Chabad, Los Angeles
Yeshivas Chabad- Lubavitch, Chicago IL
Yeshivas Tomchei Tmimim, Montreal
Yeshivas Tomchei Tmimim, Morristown
Yeshivas Chabad- Lubavitch, Toronto
Yeshivas Chabad- Lubavitch, Miami Beach
Yeshivas Achei Tmimim, Pittsburgh
Yeshiva Menachem Mendel, Oak Park
Yeshivas Chabad- Lubavitch, Twin Cities
Yeshiva Menachem Mendel, Staten Island
Yeshivas Chabad of Coral Springs, FL
annoyed at hanhalah
In this day and age, most bochurim that go to zal are there by choice. Let’s give them a reason to want to stay
i completely agree with this statement i mean do we realy need to drive bachorim out of the system, as it is the bachorim figh with hanhalah about every stupid thing there is why add to the fire for no reason besides. all it means is that more and more guys will be thrown out of yeshiva for no other reason then having a cell phone does that make any sense, causing parents greif beacuse their son is trying to reach the without having to wait on line for a pay phone for half an hour people wake up, i my self have been throuhg the system and its not going t work open your eyes and take a look at the way the world is you wont be able to change the way things are by banning cell phones dont starta battle you wont b abl to finsh!!!!
SDSDS
I can’t believe that a reputable Chabad news source such as this website would publish this trash. It’s one thing to explain the view-point of the bochurim. It’s entirely another to disrespectfully disparage our Roshei Yeshiva.
Consider the following sentiment: “I used to believe in the sagaciousness of our roshei yeshivos, thinking they knew best and looked at things in the bigger picture. With a sense of bittul”. This is obviously written by a bitter bochur who has never been taught the meaning of respect for elders, not the least of which includes our rabbonim and roshei yeshiva. Are you implying that you now don’t believe that individuals who dedicate their lives to learning and teaching torah are sagacious? Where are your values, my friend?
Writing how “the roshei yeshivos have banded together”, “banded”, like a group of outlaws, and how they “have devised a new ban”, “devised”, like a group of schemers trying to make the lives of the bochurim miserable, is entirely uncalled for.
Finally, writing how “the roshei yeshivos have to stop being so elitist” is plain and outright chutzpa! What nerve does this bochur have to blanket, stereotype and label our roshei yeshivos as “elitist”.
This article clearly demonstrates how our society’s attitude of “shake off authority” has affected the author. He was probably influenced by the media and, who knows, maybe by his obsession to his sacred cellphone!
This bochur has done a fine job at showing our community how crucial it is for our educators to take a stand against treife and dangerous influences, even if it’s doomed for failure.
“In this day and age, most bochurim that go to zal are there by choice.” How ironic. You’d think that the reason why they “choose” to go to yeshiva is to be PROTECTED from the trash of the outside world.
My friend, you’re correct on your final point. Let’s give bochurim a real reason to want to stay.
Sincerely,
An OT graduate.
july
what exactly is the auther of this open-ed trying to acomplish with this letter besides having a bunch of kids reading this letter and get upset about somethingthey may or may not have gotten upset on their own, or were you expecting the roshey yeshivos to see it and change their mind?
the letter from the yeshivos obviousley wasent justdecided writen & sent out on the spur of the moment, but rather much thaught and disscusion obviousley went into it, if you happen to disagree with it youre entitled to do so and you may even call up your sons rosh yeshivah and discuss it with him “(which for some reason i dont think the auther of this open ed has,) but what are you trying to acomplish with publishing such a letter?
Bocher
Yet another editorial focusing on a flaw in our little world. Yet again, there will be 50-100 comments. Yet again, nothing will be done.
As a bocher who is out of the system, I have to agree. I don’t know how many readers have been in yeshiva dorms over the last 10 years, but those of you who have know that cell phones are the least of the problems.
I wish the Roshei Yeshivos and Masgichim much hatzlocho in solving their issues.
Outraged Parent
This is not disrespectful. I think it’s a very calm & reasonable assessment of a disintegrating system where it seems fewer & fewer Bochurim stay in Yeshiva than go off & give up Yeshiva. As a responsible parent with a few boys still in the system, I am so tired of navigating the many stupid (yes, STUPID!!) rules Roshei Yeshivos come up with. They don’t exactly encourage Bochurim to stay in Yeshiva & learn, do they?
But I DO AGREE with banning phones with cameras etc. Why can’t a Bochur just get a phone purely for making & receiving PHONE CALLS? Isn’t that what a cell phone should be for?
The issue is, nobody has the right to tell me IF my son can have a cell. Yes, I will get my sons the Kosher Phone. I think that’s reasonable. But it is NOT for a RY to decide IF my sons can have cell phones to begin with.
Cell phones are NOT the cause of Bochurim & girls going off the Derech. They may be a result or a symptom if they’re misused but RY should be meeting to discuss how to stop Bochurim leaving Yeshiva to do other things that are not in keeping with what Chabad represents.
I like the part about Mashgichim, Menahalim etc using THEIR cells during seder. How about them slipping into their offices to take a little nap??? What example/encouragement do they give over then?
Perhaps Morristown should put the Bochurim out of their misery & anxiety & tell them, 2 weeks before Ellul, WHERE THEY ARE GOING ON SHLICHUS. Maybe they should treat Bochurim with some respect. That would be new, & better than deciding who deserves a cell phone.
One last thing. When we as parents struggle to pay outrageous tuition, don’t you dare tell me whether or not my son who is many miles from home & needs a passport to learn can have a cell phone. It’s MY job! My son will have a Kosher phone & don’t you dare take it away from him. He’s old enough to vote, he’s old enough to be responsible when he uses the phone.
Now I’m going to work to earn enough money to send my boys back to Yeshiva next year.
Outraged Parent
This is not disrespectful. I think it’s a very calm & reasonable assessment of a disintegrating system where it seems fewer & fewer Bochurim stay in Yeshiva than go off & give up Yeshiva. As a responsible parent with a few boys still in the system, I am so tired of navigating the many stupid (yes, STUPID!!) rules Roshei Yeshivos come up with. They don’t exactly encourage Bochurim to stay in Yeshiva & learn, do they?
But I DO AGREE with banning phones with cameras etc. Why can’t a Bochur just get a phone purely for making & receiving PHONE CALLS? Isn’t that what a cell phone should be for?
The issue is, nobody has the right to tell me IF my son can have a cell. Yes, I will get my sons the Kosher Phone. I think that’s reasonable. But it is NOT for a RY to decide IF my sons can have cell phones to begin with.
Cell phones are NOT the cause of Bochurim & girls going off the Derech. They may be a result or a symptom if they’re misused but RY should be meeting to discuss how to stop Bochurim leaving Yeshiva to do other things that are not in keeping with what Chabad represents.
I like the part about Mashgichim, Menahalim etc using THEIR cells during seder. How about them slipping into their offices to take a little nap??? What example/encouragement do they give over then?
Perhaps Morristown should put the Bochurim out of their misery & anxiety & tell them, 2 weeks before Ellul, WHERE THEY ARE GOING ON SHLICHUS. Maybe they should treat Bochurim with some respect. That would be new, & better than deciding who deserves a cell phone.
One last thing. When we as parents struggle to pay outrageous tuition, don’t you dare tell me whether or not my son who is many miles from home & needs a passport to learn can have a cell phone. It’s MY job! My son will have a Kosher phone & don’t you dare take it away from him. He’s old enough to vote, he’s old enough to be responsible when he uses the phone.
Now I’m going to work to earn enough money to send my boys back to Yeshiva next year.
RST
Back in the early days in 770 the Rebbe became very annoid when payphones were installed.
As an educator and as someone who’s recently gone through the Yeshiva system, I admire the Rosh Yeshiva’s for what they’ve done and I challenge them to keep to their guns and implement this rule.
I think the elementry schools need to follow.
In order to properly educate a child/bochur cel phones must be banned!
Far Cry from realty
This is one of the most unimpressive Op-Ed I have read on this website.
I was a secular bucher into all this stuff; I had a cell phone when no one else did. It ruined my yeshiva years.
until approximately the year 2000 there were no cell phones and we did just fine without them. If you wanted to call home it wasn’t necessary every day. I was in the same Morristown as you with double the buchrim and was able to keep in touch with those it was important to keep in touch with.
Cell Phone for a teen is not necessary it is a luxury, one that can be abused and ruin your experience in yeshivah.
Your statements scream of immaturity and disrespectfulness.
So sad.
Yeshivah is a place where u need full devotion and dedication to succeed; spending time on a cell phone with Yankel (let alone Chani) is completely unnecessary to be a Chasid.
Your comments are not one of a true Chasid, sad that you published your name with this.
bocher-s mother
My son is not allowed to go anywhere without his phone.
MSR
i think this oped could have been written with some added respect. i dont think he needed to go into detail what a bochour can do with a phone. but we decided since our son is going out of town we are sending him with a cell phone. our son is just to dear to us my wife needs to hear is voice. eventhough we respect our rosh yeshivas and rabbonim, its a impratical ban. I take it many parects will make juggle this as well. I once heard a smart leader makes descions people will hold to. I know some people will say you cant live without your sons voice? well my wife cant. I have interent in our home since 1999 my kids are b”h good chasideshe kids learn well, and know right from wrong. we are living in a open society, we need to harp on ruchnious and positive energy not the negative.
arik
I was in a yeshiva 2 years ago and in my class there was about 30 bochrim I can say that during shiur there was about 15 bochrim using their cell phones for internet so why are so many people against this ban
cell phones destroys the whole yeshiva
Jack!
SDSDS- Do you know what sagacious means bichlal?
nat
What a kiddush hashem! I mean the letter from the rabbayim to the parents.
May Hashem grant you koiach to sustain the original ruach that the rebbe harashab zt“l intended with the first T”T yeshiva.
a parent
more shoot the messenger
as an educator and as a parent, it is clear that this new policy will not work
the most remarkable comment in the article which should be at the top of the list is one my own children see everyday and they attend one of the yeshiva’s listed above, namely
“ The roshei yeshivos and rebbeim will not follow suit themselves. I used to see rebbeim taking calls in the middle of seder and talking outside when they were supposed to be leading by example. Can they commit to not using their own phones while they’re in yeshiva? ”
Unfortunately this happens all too often.
dovid
your comments are extremely hypocritical on the one hand you state that cell phone’s can have an extremely bad influence on a Bachur or anyone for that matter on the other hand yo umention that a bachur should be allowed to have one because it will only effect a FEW bachurim what about the parent who sends their child to Yeshiva expecting that he is in good hands and this bachur befreinds one of the FEW…. who is at fault then teh bachur the parent the Rosh Yeshiva (whom you seem to revere with respect) then you go on and on that the rosh yeshiva should choose their fights but you the great have no suggestions all you know is what they should NOT do because of it’s inconvinience to YOU and a FEW freinds that it will effect (the fact that you have the blatant CHUTZPA to write a letter like this and air your OWN dirty laundry in public only goes to show how much this rule is going to effect you and lets hope in a good way or are you the ONE who hides things in his socks because the BITUL that the R“Y dont have YOU do have in KABOLAS OL!!!!) OH! one more thing if i am not mistaken the R”Y did mentione that if there is a need for a phone in order for a parent to get through to his child he can have one the only problem you seem to have with that is that the ONLY thing you can do on that phone is TALK which phone’s were made for in the first place
please answer this as well WHY DOES A BACHUR SITTING IN YESHIVA WHO IS SUPPOSED TO BE LEARNING ALL DAY HAVE A NEED TO BE ON THE INTERNET ETC.?
Daz
Todays cell phones are NOT pareve… The phones today have access to internet and text messaging, if you agree to have the bochurim use these phones why not install computers with internet in the Zals under the pretext that we have to live with the times… This is absurd!!!
No secular institution would accept this, kal vachomer a frum institution…
I do agree that you can’t control what happens outside the classrooms, but there is a fine line between granting official permission and closing your eyes on a problem that is bigger than you. At least they know that it’s someting that is not accepted even if they will use them anyways…
A simple ruleof thumb to know if it’s proper:
Can you envision sending a letter to the Rebbe explaining to him the importance of letting the bochurim having cells in Yeshiva?
If you think the Rebbe would smile and agree than by all means, let them use them ;)
A BOCHUR THAT HAS CHANGED FOR THE BETTER
I would like to take this opertunity to thank the ROSH of L.A who strated this whole thing off…well done
ps…i was a bochur in YOEC this year and i saw how much dammage this did by to bocherim by having cell phones,guys were using the internet,looking at pictures which they shouldnt be e.t.c.I think video ipods should be “banned” aswell all these things are made only to make it harder for a lubavitch bochur to success which the yeshivos are there to help.
FED-UP PARENT
This letter is on target. As a parent sending my son so far away, I DEPEND on cell phones to stay in close touch with my son. In Seminary in Israel the hanhola DEMANDS that every girl has a cell phone and uses it positively (They text message the girls about everything relevent to school). Technology is a neutral tool that can be used for good. Make sensible rules about use. DO NOT PUNISH ME, I have a right and obligation to monitor and stay connected with my child.
hanahalah is old and behind the times
yeh moristown Cell phone Ban
its as good as their Smoking Ban
as long as you dont do it in front of others, go ahead why dont you kill yourself
and oh lets not even begin to talk about the internet
wireless ofcourse
in morristown have hanhalah ever checked how many siginal unsecured and “secured” Wifi
lets find out how many are naibors and how many are owened by bochwrim
forget about morristown every yeshiva has shluchim
you know those guys that are older so can do what they want.
yeh them that cheep one who doesnt want to pay his own 50 bucks for a cell phoone and will GLADLY hold a phone of a younger guyy and “lending” it to him when he needs to make a call
and what about Wifi anywere in any yeshivas, and laptops
you know the really small ones that not only play good Movies but go online
oh one sec, need a smaller piece how about that little game piece for kids called PSP (potable play station) that is another just way of going on line.
well i say this as a past student dorm counselor and now some one whoo brothers and freinds tell us what is really going on, what going on in their yeshivas “shluchim” office, the “mivtzoim” office, and Administrative offices of yeshivas.
i also wonder what is really going on in the heads of hanhalah, do they even care to try and find out whats the latest gadgats and see what distractions bocherim have.
i know that alot of bocherim reading this comment are upset at me for Breaking this news but… oh well, hate me
lets look at some positive ideas that yeshivas have like,
unlimmeed cell phones and land lines owened by the yeshiva, like in monsey, not that monsey doesnt have a cell phone problem but the yeshiva could crack down bc there is a good ratio of phones per bocher.
and what about that Kosher phone
tell me it would be great to know was the guy selling them at the meeting selling his phone to hanahala at this big meeting
its funny bc the day befor the letter went home to the bocherims parents a ad was posted about these Kosher cell phones
and how kosher are these phones
id love to get my hands on them
id would be noce to see how they block the echnoligy in the phones from texts and internet.
ill be apghing my head off when it goes to mo town and gets cracked and all bocherim will be texting and going on line in no time….
Me
Please!!! If the hanhola would concentrate on the bochurim and not on how to destroy the bochurim things would be a bit better. Why don’t they just look around and see what is going on?
yeshiva bochur
it is about time.
what is wrong with having a cell phone for speaking on which is what it was made for
Upset Bocher
Almost everything about this letter did not shake me up,
Execpt when I scrolled down to the bottom of the page and saw:
Yeshivas Chabad- Lubavitch, Toronto
(That’s My Yeshiva!!!!)
I guess thats another thing I will have to hide from my mashgiach!!!
THE PROBLEM WITH FREE SPEECH!!!
You are an IDIOT!!!!! They did not ban cell phones. They banned internet capable cell phones. Understand before you criticize. The yeshivas joined together to ban the distractions of the internet, while taking into consideration the parents desire to have communication access (ONLY VOICE) with their children. THEY DID THE RIGHT THING WHILE YOU WROTE PROPAGANDA TRASH TALK!!!! YOU SHOULD BE BANNED FROM THE INTERNET.
A Bochur!
As a BOCHUR in the Yeshiva system i would like to ask that this be posted! what is happening to Lubavitch!
I’ll start with a quote “The roshei yeshivos have to stop being so elitist” excuse me knock knock are you there? WE ARE THE ELITE MR.that’s not me talking it’s your Rebbe, the Rabbeim set a standard for the Tomchei Tmimim that they opened and very openly and clearly in “kuntres Eits Hachaim” (which i suggest very strongly that you and whoever is agreeing with you learn) wrote that our standards are higher and that yes such a thing is practical-“fighting the 21st century”- the Rebbe did say that we can and SHOULD use technology for the better of Mivtzoim etc. but the Rebbe also said that “THIS IS NOT FOR BOCHURIM AND ESPECIALLY NOT DURING SEDER”, you have unfortunately been “corrupted” by this ever so corrupting 21st century and you should be ashamed of yourself for thinking this way, let alone write it, and SEND IT TO THE PUBLIC, think for a second what would the Rebbe say right now?!?.
By writing the following (and everything else) and i will quote again “6. The roshei yeshivos and rebbeim will not follow suit themselves. I used to see rebbeim taking calls in the middle of seder and talking outside when they were supposed to be leading by example. Can they commit to not using their own phones while they’re in yeshiva?”
APPARENTLY YOU DON’T KNOW THAT THE REBBE SAYS THAT WHATEVER HANHALAS HAYESHIVA SAYS THAT’S WHAT GOES, AND BOCHURIM HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT TO QUESTION AND GIVE THEY’RE OPINIONS CAUSE IT IS NOT THEY’RE PLACE, HANHALAS HAYESHIVA DON’T HAVE TO ANSWER TO ANY BOCHUR PERIOD THEY ARE “UNTOCHABLE”! it is very sad to see this happening to us, and i really and truly hope that those who agree with me will speak up against those who are talking against what the Rebbe holds and stands for AND STOP BLAMING HANHALAS HAYESHIVA FOR OTHERS MISTAKES! for once please look at ourselves, are we giving our kids a proper Chinuch? don’t we know what is right? should we not be embarrassed that this is how some of the Bochurim of today are talking! r”l!!!!
May we be Zoche to the revelation of the Rebbe leading us out of Golus speedily in our days!
sheya
In A chabad mesivta there were bochurim who had a business selling cell phones, the principal just looked the other way!
Tumim
just want 2 add on to what was said b4, “The roshei yeshivos and rebbeim will not follow suit themselves. I used to see rebbeim taking calls in the middle of seder and talking outside when they were supposed to be leading by example. Can they commit to not using their own phones while they’re in yeshiva?”
I know that thare is a Rosh Yeshevah that just got a phone with unlimated internet, txt,… He is probably very attacht 2 his phone and the things that it comes with, so how can he, understanding the bocherim, ban phones? infackt he is prob. reeding this comment on his phone knowing that i refer to him.
This ban is not reely going to do much b/c the bocherim will have phones any way. but i do agre with the ban. maybe if the yeshevas had all the outlets 5/6 feet off the ground then when the bocherim try 2 charg thare phone it is seen! In the yeshevah i was in 4 the past years thare were phones charging in the boyler room!
Also 2 all those people who right open letters to crownheights.info, dont put all your opinyins in the letter. wate 4 it to b put on line then be the ferst to comment. this artical could have bin 1 parigraf and the letter from the rosh Yeshevos
Menachem
A Bochur does need to stay in “close” touch by calling his parent every day.
A weekly call or so using a payphone will do just fine.
Bochurim were fine going away to Yeshivos before Cell-Phones were invented, and they can continue going away without cell-phones.
I don’t think such a widely read site should publish such a disrespectful article.
Real Parent
to “Outraged Parent”, i do not balev that u can call yourself a “responsible parent”. you prob. r not a parent at all but a bord child filling this site w/clutter. If you r a parent then ATT. ALL READERS, THE PROB. IS NOT NESASERALY WITH THE BOCHER BUT WITH PARENTS LIKE THIS 1.
Yossi
10 points for the Hanholo’s for what they’ve done and I challenge them to keep to their guns and implement this rule.
I know one Mesivta were the Mashgiach will try to implement this rule, but the Menahel will Stab him in the back.
Tomim 90-s
As Lubavitchers we have to remember that Tomchei Temimim was established by the Rebbe Rashab. If one looks in Kuntres Eitz Chaim, (a must for any bochur in the Lubavitch Yeshiva system) one sees the criteria for being a Tomim and the type of schedule and life style to be maintained while in Yeshiva and “bein hazmanim”.
The well known sicha from the Rebbe Rashab on Simchas Torah, about “Kol hayoitzei… koisev get krisus leishto” means a bochur giving up the regular gashmiyus of the outside world. If the hanhala feels that this is an avenue to be pursued toward this goal, then it should be upheld and respected.
Granted there are real issues facing “the system” that need to be addressed, and I sencerely hope they will be addressed. Yet we should do as parents whatever we can to uphold the Rebbe’s vision for Tomchei Temimim.
When we look at this issue and criticise etc. it is because we are looking at it from a wordly perspective, which is exactly what the Rebbe Rashab did not want for this special Yeshiva.
Think about it… What is wrong if a parent speaks to his child once a week? It was done this way for many years with success. In fact if I needed to speak to my parents from the pay phone in the middle of Seder becasue of the time difference to home etc. the hanhala was very understanding and accomodating.
If you want to look at things from a worldly perspective, then you can go to other Yeshivos, but if you are going to Tomchei Temimim, then follow the rules and the Rebbe’s vision.
If we as parents would assist the hanhala in upholding all the rules and regulations instead of displying disrespect to the hanhala in front of our children, then maybe the children would have more respect for hanhala and the holy institution of Tomchei Temimim.
I hope and pray that all the serious issues facing the bochrim of today will be resolved and that Tomchei Temimim return to its glory of producing true Chayolei Beis Dovid.
SHAME ON THE BOCHURIM
THE HANHOLOH IS 100% RIGHT.
HOW DID WE SURVIVE 10-20 YEARS AGO!!!
ARE THE BOCHURIM MORE CHASSIDISH TODAY BECAUSE OF THEIR CELL PHONES????
FORTHE HUNDRETH TIME…THEY ARE BANNING INTERNET ACCESS…NOT THE PHONE IT SELF
W H A T I S T H E C R I M E ?
Yossi
To SDSDS:
I and most probably most people would agree with you regarding the disrespect this author has for our Hanhala,and yes it is tragic to see how Bachurim of our circle or any other for that matter,write such things about Hanhala of our/their Moisdos
But you know something else,you seem to be the kind of person who looks at a case from one angle.
We see on a day to day basis Teenagers slowly going downhill and fall for what’s out there in the world,it is becoming easier to get anything nowadays and for that reason it is more tempting for the average young teen to take what’s offered to him and do what he thinks will cause him no harm,the world today is a sick ruthless beckoning cult if you want to put it that way,and it’s unfortunately a constant struggle for a lot of kids on a daily basis.
Why am i saying this? because no matter how much you think because you are the parent you ‘know better’ you can not look at the world through the eyes of your child,or any other teenager, and most teen’s will agree with me,it’s not a revolutionary statement against our parents,it’s just the way it is – FACE IT.
Us teenagers are not out to fight Hanhala,but it’s exceedingly hard to go to Yeshiva with all these worldly distractions -whatever it may be,and yes, Bachurim are fed up and are sadly to say not going to put up with what’s demanded of them anymore,and if it gets anymore demanding,the list of ‘drop out’s'(of yeshiva’s) will grow bigger and faster – that’s how sad the situation is nowadays.
The Author’s note is not a statement against Hanhala,it is a mere plea to them and to all parents who are close minded to open up their eyes and realize that by cutting off simple valuables that a boy or a girl will not go without,it’s going to help the cause.
The key is to try and understand the youth – not to rebuke them.
The freedom of speech
When I left yeshiva, it was still a taboo to leave. I never went to zal, because I was not interested in putting up with lenghty days of learning and rosh hashivas who could’nt relate to the students. In todays’s day in age, more and more bouchrim are leaving the system, and the decision to go to zal is entirely up to the bouchor. I think the rosh hashivas are not on the same page as todays youth, and for the sake and continuity of yeshivas.
Mother and teacher
Why only ban phones with internet access? Why does a Bochur in yeshiva need a phone? If he has to call home, he could do it the old fashioned way at a pay phone. It might be a little more inconvenient, but big deal! Those that have the phone don’t only use it to call their parents. They are very busy with it-even without internet. My son is from the few Bochurim who don’t have cell phones, and B”H he manages to call home. But he does tell me that many of the boys are on the phone with girls. So what good is it if it has no internet. It should still not be allowed. And to all the teachers out there: You are entitled to have phones, but please close them during class. It’s very unprofessional to use it while teaching!
this will never work
the people who wrote this letter are the reason that today bochrim leave yeshiva early. they wrote this b/c they cant control their bochrim. the way i see it buchrim will always find a way to do it just like they do with movies and not jewish books and smoking, the thing is the moment you make it illegal thats when they start doing it everywhere its b/c its illegal that they go ahead and do it.
hopeless cause.
Was bochur without phone
With safety issues- for those having to leave Yeshiva property- phones are essential. While in Seder there can be rules about using phones, but how can we ban HAVING one?! As others have stated, I’ve seen Hanhala using cell phones in ZAl for all to see. Also, lets keep the ones still coming in the ‘system’.
Moishele
LOL. This reminds me of how I used to feel whenever Hanhola didn’t give me what I wanted. “Face reality”, “unreasonable and stubborn” etc are all words I used to describe them.
Then again, I was a teenager. I was not expected to agree with my educators, for I had:
1. Less life experience.
2. Less knowledge of Torah, the Rebbe’s Sichos and Igros.
3. Less exposure to “the real world”.
4. Never had any serious responsibility on my shoulders, and was more or less a self-centered guy.
A bochur’s frustrations with Hanhola foiling his plans are certainly a valid emotion, but they are not necessarily (and usually not) in accordance with the truth.
My dear Yanky, I don’t know you, but I think that if you will look back at this op-ed after you get married, have kids, and become more mature (can you imagine being more mature than you are now? It happens…) you will either laugh or cry very, very hard. Maybe both. I will not critique the points in the article, because most of what I would say has already been said, and I didn’t get the impression that this was written from an intelligent, open minded perspective. It sounds very emotional. You sound bitter, frustrated, and whiny. I can’t give an intellectual response to an emotional article.
G-d bless you. The best years of your life are coming, smile and enjoy them.
40-yr-old former bochur
The Rebbe said many times that bochurim have to listen to Hanholah no matter what. Whatever they do is right, whether you understand it or not! They should not be questioned, especially in public forum.
HAPPY
I HAVE A PHONE AND IT STOPS ME FROM GOING TO PLACES I SHOULDNT BECOUSE I KNOW IM GETTING A CALL ASKING WERE I AM BUT IF I DONT HAVE A PHONE I COULD DISSAPAIR FOR HOURS AND NOBODY WOULD EVER KNOW
rcl
Nemo my man the next G.M.
i have a few issues with the article but we can discuss that face to face
fed up at the yeshiva system
if u want to avoid modern technolegy, start traveling by boat! come one, who doesnt have a cell phone these days? In israel you are crazy for going around without one, and here after 911 and after all these crazy stories all over (expecially in crown heights) who is gonna go out without a cell phone. i dont go out of my house when it’s dark outside! My children are going to have cell phones – rules of the schools are not to have them in school — so they’ll turn it off in the school building, but when in the streets coming home and going to school, or even going to a freind – yup, a phone is gonna be in their possessions! you have to be really careful with rules nowadays, like a bochor wrote that he’s out of the system, cells are the least of the problem — listen to him — he’s right!!! what about the magazines they buy, cigaretts, beer, bb guns?????? wake up hanhalla – don’t say they’re talking on the phone and wasting time — what about the girl they are calling?
Disgusted with the system
Could it be that the Hanholo is failing the bochurim and Parents. I have seen the attitute in several yeshivas of the hanholo. To say that they don’t care too much is being is being very kind.
The more we stop our children from doing many things the more you are causing them to do it anyways.There has to be a middle of the road way for cell phones. We are living in the 21st century. Parents want to be in contact with their children and they have the right to do so.
Besides taking huge tuition where is the hanholo for the bulk of the “middle of the road” children.
it-s all about the youth
people are under the misguided perception that what applied in the past, no longer applies. because we live in a different world, we need to be differetn. while it is true that times have changed and we need to keep up with those changes, we also need to be careful with regards to what those changes are. as modern as the world becomes, we must remain chassidishe yiddin. and that is why we must sometimes make rules that are not comfortable, and might not be 100% perfect, but is there ever going to be a rule that will please everyone and have the desired effect. the fact is, and no one can argue, that bochurim do misuse cell phones, and those that do not, are living in the same environment as others who are and may effect them (everyone is susceptible to change – good or bad.)therefore the yeshivas must do what they feel will be beneficial and right for the chassidishkeit and yiras shamayim of the bochurim. let’s not fool ourselves, these are very crucial years for bochurim, and there is a lot of damage that can come from cell phones. so, while it may be an inconvenience for the bochurim and parents, and it is something that people have come to rely on, it is also something that can destroy a bochur’s focus and also effect those around him. to sacrifice instant connection with your child/parent in order to prevent other detrimental occurances, it is not so terrible after all. there are a lot of other things effecting bochurim these days that need to be worked on, but that does not mean that we cannot start with something (however small or insignificant it may seem.)
perhaps the yeshiva can install more payphones for the bochurim so that they can call home. if a bochur or parent needs to have a private discussion or must get a hold of their child for whatever reason, the yeshiva should arrange for this as well.
it is a small price to pay to ensure the well being of our children.
sam
I really hope these Hanholos are also setting serious guidlines regarding their own care of and warmth towards bochurim
chatich
Is this “ban” meant only for Mesivte bochrim- or for bochrim in zal as well?
2008
We are destroying our children by making these rules which are nonsensical. In todays day and age the bochurim must be equipped with a cell phone.
If the hanholo be more positive to the bochurim instead of always threatening and punishing them the talmidim will be more receptive.
There is no warmth to the boys and the resent this.
Yes during seder no phone should be brought into zal there is no need for it. The hanholo should request no internet connection on the phones but a basic phone must be part of the talmids
wardrobe.
The hanholo in most cases are the cause of our children going off the derech. The elitist attitude and there total non understanding of a bochur in 2008
let’s get real. This is 20 years ago we are living in very trying times and we have no hanholo to even discuss this or any matter in a rational way.
thinking
I think that every boy will still bring his cell phone.
What i think they should do is collect all the kids cell phones and every other night they can have there phones back till whatever time.
Yanky
For those concerned, I have no emotional frets about my Yeshiva experience. Boruch Hashem, I loved and was loved by my Hanholah. I get kushes every time I see some of them (well, maybe not after this :)
Being that I’m no longer in the Yeshiva system, I can look back from my experiences as a bochur and lend a little insight to hanholas hayeshiva. If there’s one thing that they need to hear nor that the system is ostensibly failing bochurim is a little feedback. I offered logical thoughts from an intelligent bochur’s experiences. I really don’t have a negiyus You have my name if you want to confirm, based on my reputation, that I’m not angry and emotional about the “system.”
waste of time
did mr. yanky read this part of the letter sent out by the yeshivahs:
In the event that the Hanhola of a particular yeshiva feels that a specific Bochur needs to have access to a personal cellular phone all yeshivas have collectively decided that the only cellular phone which will be permitted is “THE PURELY VOICE PHONE”’. There will be no exceptions.
TechTeacher
PLEASE… stop using technology as an excuse for failing to address real issues. The methods to engage in innapropriate activities may be getting easier, but they have always been there in some form. The more you prevent kids from having such access, the more they will desire it… and there are MANY ways to achieve it! Trust me, the kids will stay several steps ahead of any measures you impose. They can hand in their cell phone and be back “on the air” in minutes…
By all means, CONTROL the use of cell phones in school. Texting during classes is a real problem. Give them a secure place to check-in their phones during classes (and a requirement to do so!), but let them have access during non-class times. Implement a “workshop” in safe and appropriate use of such technology “toys”. Show that you can appreciate technology for the positives it can bring, but also point out the dangers. Treat the students with respect and as responsible people and guess what? They (mostly) will respond!
Realize that you CANNOT control new technology. Devices are getting smaller (easier to conceal) and more capable all the time. By imposing “bans” you are just teaching them that you don’t trust them, and driving them to find alternative – possibly more dangerous – methods.
to outraged parent
If you can’t listen to the Roshei yeshivah then don’t send your child there go somewhere else.
If you don’t respect them why do you think your child will respect them and learn from them.
don’t be suprised that your children or one of your children will go off the derech, with lack of respect to our rabonim and roshie yeshivah, which they reperesent the torah and G-D, you are actualy showing disrespect to the Torah and G-D.
I hope and pray that G-D will open your eyes and guide you in the right way.
someone
personally i think if a bochur wanted to do somehting bad he would do it with or without a cell phone.so the only bochurim getting hurt are the good ones
to bochur-s mom
stop being so protective of him he doesn’t need you to reach everywhere.
so disrespectful on behalf of the author i am ashamed that a web site like yours puts such an op-ed.
Where is the kabolos ol towards Rabonim and roshie yeshivah
Yossele
. . . And what about a menahel that runs his Real estate business on his Cell phone during Seder!
to fed-up parent
don’t complain later when you find out that your dear child is surfing on line where he shouldn’t be.
I guess hearing his voice is more important than his emoitnal and sipirtual well being.
How foolish of you
wish the world was perfect
One fundamental quality missing today amongst our youth (and indeed in society at large) is RESPECT. The parents don’t have respect, the kids don’t have respect. If you don’t like the rules don’t attend the institution. That parents show such disrespect on a public forum that many young teenagers read, shows how selfish they are. Today they disagree with the cell phone policy, tomorrow with something else. Did the Yeshivos make this rule to benefit themselves?! Yes why in fact to boys who are suppose to sit and learn (that is what I am told a Yeshiva is for) need cell phones, ipods, laptops? They don’t make a boy (/girls) do anything wrong, it is a temptation none the less. On a tape recorder they would not play inappropriate music aloud, but on an ipod that no one else can hear? Yes, technology can be used for good, we know that but will it be used only for good?
Tomim 90-s
To TechTeacher…
This attitude is basically saying:
Since they’re going to smoke anyway, make it permissible and teach them why smoking is bad…
When obviously the reason why smoking is banned in Yeshiva is because the Rebbe forbade it under 20 and a bakosho nafshis after that. period.
It’s like the attitude in public schools that since you can’t enforce inter gender activities etc. teach them control rather then abstinence…
Yeshiva has to make rules they see fit for a bochur’s spiritual growth. If the bochur is not going to heed to the rules, that is his problem, but it doesn’t mean that you don’t put rules in place since they’re not goin to be adhered to!
If you don’t like the rules… find another Yeshiva. The hanholas are not the CAUSE of bochrim going off… They are the excuse for these bochurim and parents.
May of those up in arms are parents who have tv’s at home which is explicitely against the Rebbe’s instructions, and therefore the cell phone ban seems so rediculous to them.
If our homes were true Chassidishe homes without any hypocrisy and disrespect displayed to hanholas, Rabbonim etc. then we would not have to resort to blaming hanholas for Yeshiva dropouts.
In the 1950’s the Rebbe was furious with the bochrim that they knew about his announcements in the newspaper. Just because it’s 2008 doesn’t mean a Lubavitcher bochur is allowed to be exposed to modern media, unless the Rebbe ok’s it!
Elie
Why don’t the yeshivos put up cell phone blockers on their buildings, and avoid all the fighting? That way parents can drop a voicemail that kids can pick up outside of seder, and the rabbonim won’t be on their cells during seder either.
Besides that, I think the author’s problem is not specifically with the ban on cellphones – it’s with the fact that the rabbonim are dealing with a symptom, and not with the essence of the problem. The essence of the problem is that guys aren’t taught Chassidus properly, to learn how to apply self control to their own avodas Hashem. Veda”l.
av
whats going on here ? a bochur job is to sit down and learn and thats all and for the Roashe yeshivos that that is done ofcourse thatere are those that are not shiech to it so sometimes under some circumstances rules are made to be broken if the R.Y. so decide on an individual basis. But those people be they mechanchim parents or whatever that feel that this is not the case then maybe they should send their children to college in the first place! A bochur’s job is to sit and learn and thats all with NO menios, I wish I could sit and learn allday with no menios
When I was in mesivta
When I was in mesivta – me and some friends were selling movies on DVD’s, when the Dean of the Yeshiva found out he informed the principal of the Mesivta that on a certain day he would show up and Check the Locker’s.
You will not believe this, but the principal,
– Who was afraid of the bad name this would give him and his department –
So the principal himself notified me that the dean is going to Raid the Locker room!
the principal always wanted to be the good guy!
He did not care that he was helping me continue my DVD business.
Anon2
Hey Yanks, great editorial truly. It’s sad that the people on this site have a pea size outlook. No one says that band-aids are useless but putting a band-aid on a gunshot wound rarely helps. FYI just saw a laptop that is thin as paper, you can fold it; fits nicely in your back pocket, free Wi-Fi will be across the country. I can’t wait to see how Hanhalah reacts to that or the technology in the next decade. Bottom line is they have to act not react, start rethinking how to teach. Samson Raphael Hirsch and many other greats knew how, Time will tell.
Henoch Bonis
I went to public highschool before becoming frum. On September 11th 01 all the students were allowed to take out there cell phones and call their parents. A great number of parents commuted to the city from North Jersey. I called my father who works in NY, I also had a classmate who’s mother was on the 63rd floor of the WTC. The importance of cell phones override their potential harm, which can be dealt with in other ways. I think the descision is egregiously and spectacularly naive.
A Parent
obviously a bochur wrote this or at least someone who doesn’t have children of that age.
A Parent
How do so many bochurim have access to this page ON THE INTERNET?
Another bochur
Ah… The great outlet of Ch.Info.
As a Bochur that went through the system as well as a dorm counsler for 2 years i’d like to offer a few PRACTICAL suggestions to this problem as well as some of the other problems in dorms.
1. Hanhala MUST make searches of the entire dorm at least monthly and try to think about where a bochur can hide his stuff instead of just checking under his pants.
2. There must be enough pay phones for a bochur to make a call without having to wait a half hour during his break and for his parents to be able to get through to him with out being hung up on or waiting for 20 min. for their son.
3. Hanhala must be informed and be up to date on new technology and taught or commision someone to search ipods, Phones, PSP’s, Palm Pilots Etc.. for any inapropprate content.
chosid wana-be!
good job Hanhala!
since when do parents have to speak to there children more then once a week (or once every two weeks)!
you should see the amount of buchurim walking outside on there cell-phone, talking to there friend they met just yesterday just because thay have a phone, cant they do anything more productive like learning Chitas, Rambam, a sicha (or even excersizeing is not so bad if its l’shem shmayim)…!
Yossi Belkin
As a fresh FRUM yeshiva dropout all I can say is that if you cant hack the idea that your Yeshiva wont let you have a cell phone then that Yeshiva is not for you. Look around for something a little more lenient. Or if you Really want to go to that specific place for the learning then suck it up, hide your phone and pray you dont get kicked out. Lets not kid ourselves boys. We all know that if we want to go online in Yeshiva we will. If we want to call a girl we will. If we want to do whatever we will. Thats the point of Yeshiva… to encourage you not to. By not allowing you to have a iphone per-say it will be harder for you to exercise your taiva. They are not stifling your freedom. Its your jail in disguise.
On a side note I have serious problems with the Yeshiva system that stem far beyond cell phones. I was learning out of the country for 2 years and guess what… we don’t have cell phones. They cost a fortune. We used a pay-phone to america like once a week. And if it’s a mother being worried that her son wont have his phone with him when something happens… if your son is in zal learning there will be people around to help him… if he’s out at 4am in the middle of nowhere you have other things to worry about and its time you sit down with him and have a little talk. Only respect for the writer of the op-ed. Your not immature or disrespectful. It’s good to see that bocurim out there can still voice their opinions without feeling that they are talking apikorisim.
Hisgalus now.
To Yanky
Kudos and congrats. Not for, the depth of your writing. Not for, the strength of your argument. Not for, the responses you have engendered with your willy piece of controversy.
What I do wish do congratulate you for, is your outright braveness in writing something, “something”. This “something” is “something” we hardly see anymore. It seems the fear of nothing ever changing has set in terminally, and has made us incapable of writing or verbalizing a single thought or feeling.
Yet you have, so snicker at those who tell you to grow up and stop being bitter and be comforted in knowing that a lot more of us agree then disagree with you.
If not on this subject, then on the other hundred subjects that one could write about in regards to the system of denial that is the chabad yeshiva system. This is not a bitter rant, this is fact.
nsk
To todays’ parents. Regardless of what you think about equipping your son with a mobile phone, consider: has your son ever written a LETTER to you?
Forget about the payphones in Morristown. Postal service is still as good as it ever was (well, almost). And instead of a phone, give him some envelopes and stamps. Write to each other once a week. It is a more tangible and lasting form of communication. Your relationship will gain by the change of levush from dibur to maaseh, and you can all have something to treasure for years to come.
When your son sees that YOU are making this effort, he will understand what you really care about. Kids have difficulty understanding what is really important to their parents, and what is not, it is all the same flow of dibur nowadays.
Most transient emotions and irrelevant distractions disappear on paper, they have no foundation in this world.
OUR STANDARDS AR-NT THE SAME!
In mir yeshivah they still allow cell phones!!!! so any bochur who does not think they could handle the standards of tomchay tmimim, is welcome to go there .tomchay tmimim is exlusive, and was always that way its not mandatory fur a lubavither bachur to learn in such a high standard yishivah if he is not up to it
ps. im a bachur in yeshiva and i watched how good bochurim got caught away by cell phones.. not only b/c of the internet but their just never in one place they are always busy texting and calling etc.etc …
dear parents who have so much trust in your sons, you have absolutely no clue what they are up to..
for the first while it will be hard and maybe even up to a year, but eventually if hanhala will hold on tight it will become very accepted….
Moishele
Regarding all the discussion about how Hanhala needs to get with the program, cell phones are a necessity in today’s world, and thoughts along those lines:
Please read this excerpt from an excellent article on Chabad.org. Full article at http://www.chabad.org/97367.
“A Brief, Skip-it-if-you-like, Synopsis of the Guadian Doctrine of Change
Each time we adapt to change, we learn more about who we are. Each time we surrender to change, we surrender that power of being who we are. Without a clear identity and cut off from our source, we become impotent, less radical — less capable of effecting real change.
Change can be good (if you know anyone who would like to change places with our shul president, please let us know, ASAP). After all, change is what Torah is all about. Changing people’s minds. Changing how things are done. Changing the world — into something more wondrous, more glowing, more transparent to its essence. And how have we gone about effecting those deep, radical changes in our world very successful over the past 3,700 years? Basically, by staying the same.
Actually, your argument for change would have been a much stronger one earlier in history. Let’s say we were living in the times of the Temple in Jerusalem, and you would challenge me, saying, ”Why do you people have to do everything so differently than everyone else?“ Then I would have had to respond principally out of faith. As in, ”Well, G-d said so, so it’s got to be right.“
By now, however, we have the largest sample in clinical history of trial and observation under every possible social, geographical, economical, political and military condition. Each time, everywhere, anywhere and anytime, Torah worked. ”Hey!“ the brain says, ”There’s got to be something to it!“
There is. Torah doesn’t belong to any time, system, society or circumstance. It’s from outside the system. So it works everywhere.
Adaptation brings us closer to our essence. When we moved from nomadic society to agrarian to glorious civilization to exile to less glorious civilization to Hellenization to mercantile province to exile again to practically everywhere and everything to industrialization to pop-society and now to life in cyberspace — each time we come to a deeper understanding of ourselves and of our Torah.”
I believe this to be a clear and direct guide to what our philosophy should be towards this issue.
grown up should lay back a lil;
listen there in school the whole day if its talking to girls your worrieed about it aint gonna be in school anyway so ….? whats the deal here?
detrayter
PEOPLE- IS THIS BAN FOR ONLY FOR MESIVTA BOCHRIM OR FOR ZAL BOCHRIM AS WELL!?
PRODUCT OF TT
Dear parents
For those who believe the banning of the cell phone is a great idea i say NO WE NEED MORE TO PROTECT our kids.
We should send all boys aged 13-20 to a small town in Russia with no electricity, running water and woman under the age of 50.
Girls should be sent to Africa or Asia.
By being so strict we will save their souls from the evil’s of this world
IE
Jeans
Colored shirts
Cell phones
Sneakers
Sport
etc
……………
Please consider who is educating your children and remember its not just the rare few boys and girls from broken and bal tashuvah families who are not frum and doing drugs.
yeshiva bochur
I THINK THERE IC NOTHING WRONG with this new rule this ban is not on using cell phones to speak the ban is only on thigs like internet etc. which bochurim do not need anyway kol hakoved to these yeshivas
curent bocher
To Another bochur, if u realy think that the hanholo shud make some rades then let me tell you as a real bocher that no mater how hard the RY or dorm consler tries unless the bulding is bult by that curent hanholo THAY WILL N E V E R FIND A THING. unless thay serch 4 houres and houres. the fresh mind of a bocher can hide what ever he wants ware ever he wants. like a psp or laptop in a chikin coop! b/c the dorm consler is alerjik 2 fethers.
also 2 all those who r saing that “we servivd many years ago w/out cell phons…” FACE IT we r living in the age of the fax machen! if you ask your grate grate grandmother (may she rest in peace) she will tell you “vay do ye need a fon in de fer’st platz???”
BT from a BROKEN HOME
to “prodect of tt”
y do you think that we r speking of kids of broken homes and balay tishova?
your comment is over exajerated and ofensiv.
SPOILED ROTTEN KIDS
I DO NOT HAVE THE PATIENCE OR THE NERVES TO READ ALL THESE INSANE COMMENTS BUT WILL SAY THIS. I AM A BUBBY WITH A BUNCH OF GRANDCHILDREN WHO ALL LIVE BY THE CELL PHONE. AS MUCH AS I LOVE THEM I DESPISE THE CELL PHONE DEAL. (AND YES, I HAVE AND USE ONE MYSELF). THE YESHIVAHS ARE 1000 PERCENT CORRECT TO BAN CELL PHONES. I HAVE SEEN SOME YESHIVAHS THAT ALLOW WHAT THEY CALL THE KOSHER CELL PHONE. SO THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES IF YOU REALLY JUST WANT THE CELL FOR NECESSARY PURPOSES. THIS PAST TISHA B’AV I WENT TO SHUL FOR EICHA AND SAW A YOUNG WOMAN NEAR ME SITTING THROUGH THE ENTIRE READING OF EICHA WITH A SEFER IN ONE HAND WHILE TEXT MESSAGING HER FRIENDS!!!! THIS WAS A FRUM CHASIDISHE GIRL MIND YOU. IT IS THIS THAT THE YESHIVAHS ARE TRYING TO CUT OUT. OUR KIDS ARE WAY WAY TO SPOILED ROTTEN. WHEN MY CHILDREN WERE GROWING UP TEN AND FIFTEEN YEARS AGO THEY DID NOT HAVE CELL PHONES AND WE ALL SURVIVED VERY VERY VERY WELL. PERHAPS THE PARENTS OF TODAY NEED THEIR PRIORITIES STRAIGHTENED AS WELL SO THAT THEY CAN INSTILL THE RIGHT ONES IN THEIR CHILDREN.
Boruch ben Tzvi(A H) HaKohaine Hoffinger
B“H
Dear by Yanky Nemon,
Interesting article, but, you said: ”Inevitably, a lot of bochurim and parents will be incensed.”
Tell me, don’t we honor and respect our rabbonim? Perhaps, as adults, we should deliberate, consider and realize they’re trying to help matters, not harm. It’s a difficult matter.
You’re tone of voice ‘incensed’ sounds like you carry little honor for our rabbis, and very little understanding for their difficulties.
Am navon vchochom?
Dont shoot the messenger
Yanky:
Im sorry for the sad and desperate people who have decided to attack you by calling you ignorant, immature etc for an opinion that MANY share. This personal attack shows the weakness of THEIR argument :D
I would love to sit here and shoot down every one of the stupidly small minded coments who cry abou ‘kabolas ol’ and ‘respect’, but im short on time, so to all you seriously sheltered parents, your son talking to a girl on a phone is the LEAST of your problems!!!! take this from someone who knows!
A word of advice: focus on showing a little bit of lenience to your kids, from experience this KILLS the rebellious streak in teenagers, treat him like a mature adult – EARN the respect! this applies to teachers and roshei yeshivos aswell.
To the person who harped on about how ‘secular’ institutions wouldnt allow internet – I go to college and there are computers with internet everywhere, they just have the intelligence to block gaming and p*rn sites.
LIGHTEN UP PEOPLE from experience ( I just came out of the system 2 years ago) lenience goes a long way in having your child respect you, the more you stifle your child the more rebellious he will be. You all have FORGOTEN what it is like to be a teenager so stop thinking that you know best! on the contrary a young fresh person is much more suited to writing this article as he knows how teenagers work.
Gematria of Hanhola = Amoleik
Bochurim shouldn’t be allowed to travel to yeshiva by plane. There is the possibility of them watching movies on board, and now some airlines have introduced free in air wi-fi internet. Once we are banning phones because they give the bochur the possibility to access the internet, shouldn’t we ban a service that provides it for free and stuffs movies in your face. Looking forward to a letter from all Roshei Yeshivois informing parents that their sons will not be accepted if he has traveled to yeshiva by plane ( how did bochurim survive 40 years ago?)
lost in CA
The Rosh in LA banned cellphones after Pesach. As an outside observer, he totally changed the yeshiva. I passed by during bein hadedorim and 50-60 bochurim would be walking up and down the street yakking like teenage girls on their phones. It was disgusting and totally the opposite of Tomchei Tmimim. After Pesach, these bochurim were not seen. I guess they spent their lunch hour napping or catching up on laundry, etc. TG for this ban. I have 2 sons in yehivos, and if they MUST call, they will find a way. You immature mothers, leave your kids alone, and if you can’t let go, home school them.
The Rosh
As one of the Roshei Yeshiva, I wish to state frankly and clearly: Attending in my Yeshiva is a privilege, not a right. Those parents that can’t or won’t accept the rules of my Yeshiva should not be applying for the privilege. They are welcome to form their own Yeshiva with like minded parents, and I wish them hatzlacha. However, if you insist on applying to my Yeshiva, acceptance in my Yeshiva requires total compliance with my Yeshiva’s rules.
*MARAJUANA*
*MARAJUANA SPEAKS*
a FRIEND OF MINE CAME CRYING TO ME, THAT HER SON JUST RETURNED FROM A PROMINENT YESHIVA IN ISRAEL, AND STUNNED HER AND HER HUSBAND WITH THE NEWS.
(NOW THIS NEWS BEATS ALL THE CELL PHONE STORIES)
hE WAS INTRODUCES TO MARAJUANA IN YESHIVA BY SOME CLASSMATES, AND GOT HOOKED ON IT!
“WE SENT HIM TO YESHIVA TO BECOME A BETTER CHOSID, AND HE COMES BACK STONED AND ADDICTED TO MARAJUANA!” SHE SAYS.
WORSE YET, SINCE HE WAS ON MEDICATION FOR ‘ADHD’ NOONE HAD EVER TOLD HIM THAT THE 2 DONT MIX, AND CAN BECOME LETHAL!.
MY FRIEND GOES ON CRYING TO ME, “WHATS WORSE IS THAT MY SON SEEMS TO HAVE A REACTION TO THE DRUGD/MEDS. AND HE IS HAVING A PSYCOTIC EPISODE (LIKE A NERVOUS BREAKDOWN) BECAUSE OF THIS LETHAL COMBINATION AND NEEDS LOTS OF
TREATMENT AND MENTAL ASSISTANCE FOR MANY MONTHS NOW.
DID THE ROSH YESHIVAS KNOW THIS IS GOING ON IN THAT BOY’S LIFE DURING YESHIV, THAT THE BOYS DO DRUG AND KIDS ON ‘OTHER MEDICINES’ NOT BEING AWARE OF THE LETHAL COMBINATIONS CAN ACTUALLY HARM/KILL THEMSELVES?
AND IF THE ROSH YESHIVAS KNEW, WHY DIDNT MY FRIEND GET A CALL SHE ASKS ME?
HOW CAN THEY NOT KNOW IF KIDS LOOK STONED OR CANT GET UP FOR SEDER?
WHAT ABOUT ALL THE MASHKA THEY DRINK AT FARBRENGENS THAT IS WAY BETOND THE LIMIT OF A 15 YEAR OLD? WE ARE TALKING 15 -17 YEAR OLDS HERE.
THIS IS SERIOUS STUFF. CELL PHONES IS PEANUTS IN COMPARISON.
BOCHURIM, TELL ME, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, HOW MUCH IS GOING ON IN DRUGS/ALCOHOL THAT THE HANHALA DOESNT KNOW AND SHOULD OPEN THEIR EYES TO?
Zev
All you hear today is this liberal nonsensical garbage that screams let’s let our children do what they want to do because if not they will do it behind our backs.
This is terribly wrong!
There is a Shulchan Aruch. There are rules. there are guidelines. We dont make them we just keep them. If you cant keep them and you pay someone (hanhalah) to teach your children how to keep them (tuition) then don’t complain when they do.
Stop it! Dont let them do it because look how much bad is out there, we have to bend some rules to make them look better. No the Torah cannot be bent! Never Hatorah Hazos Lo tihye Muchlefes!
rabbi G
I did not read all the comments so somebody may hav already said this.
one point made was making yeshiva’s a place where the bochurim would want to go,as a recent “system” graduate (smicha included) some simple advice,
give bochurim everything they could possibly need IN yeshiva thay they might look for elsewhere.1 get some computers for email use only it can be done if you get the right software which is readily availabe and many times free!! 2.no offense but one reason alot of bochurim go out after seder hours is to get food b/c the yeshiva food is horrible! you want to keep them in provide for them!
as for the point made by a parent for tuition there is no doubt in my mind that some schools which charge a fortune have been pretty empty lately and its for one reason there are plenty of schools that are just as bad for less money!!
cell phones can be taken care of in a much easier way in banning them from zal for one and making sure that anyone that has a phone reports to hanhola that they have one and give over the number so they know how they can reach you it will keep bochurim from doing things they are not supposed to do if they know they can be found.
and i also agree with one point made the members of hanhola have got to figure out which battles are worth fighting an example why stop bochurim that have a perfect attendance from playing some sports after seder even if its a little later then they would like the guy has a perfect or close to prefect record leave him alone!!
instead bother the people who are sleeping in every day and missing chassidus!! one of the more importent classes in yeshiva supposedly.
thats all im gonna say for now but trust me after being in enough yeshiva’s around the world need to get a clue!!
CSC
I tend to agree with some of the comments above that cell phone use should be restricted but not outlawed.
To ban cellphone use entirely is unwise. Yes, I know cellphones addictive — & dangerous — but they are useful for emergencies.
But emergencies only.
Definitely they should be banned in class.Guys, get in the habit of turning off the cellphones before a shiur. (Or leave them at the dorm.) This habit should become as routine as donning tefillin. And the guy who has the 1812 OVERTURE blaring from his pocket while his rebbe is speaking should get suspended. After 3 times, expelled. And of course the “Kosher Phones” should be the only type acceptable.
Frankly, I think a guy who constantly has to keep in touch with his mother is going to have major problems with women later in life. Guys, you want to end up like Woody Allen? Don’t be a mama’s boy. And Mom, unless it’s truly an emergency — i.e. medical, chas veshalom! — don’t pester your son so much. It’s time you cut the apron strings.
I know it’s naive to expect impeccable behavior from everyone. After all, frum guys are human. As I write now, there’s someone in a Gemara class downloading hotbabe.com. Somehow, though, I felt that the study of Chassidus might temper some of this behavior. A little bit, anyway.
All in all, though, I see the RYs’ point of view. There have to be limits, especially with something with such potential for decadence. And if you think our yeshivas are strict, try some of the ones in Williamsburg. They don’t even allow their kids to ride bikes or attend Florida vacations.
e from TRS
Just like the bochurim headed off to yeshiva in a few weeks who are surely questioning the smarts of their roshei yeshiva, perhaps it’s important for the general community to ask the roshei yeshivos if they’re sure of the benefits that they allege this will provide. And that they’re prepared for the consequences and eventualities that this will no doubt cause.
Can you spot the fragment in this paragraph?
hanhala-s without brains
After 9/11 I don’t know any parent who would willingly or even un-willingly agree to ANY degree to be unable to communicate with thier kids in yeshiva.
You simply CANNOT take that away from them, even if only for a few hours.
The rule must allow for VOICE communication between parents & thier children 24/6. You can limit or eliminate all other non-essential “toys” that cell phones have these days – but don’t you even think of taking away my ability to talk to my kid when I need to talk to him/her.
KIDS NEED THIER PARENTS AND PARENTS NEED THIER KIDS! Maybe if we all work on this one vital aspect of thier chinuch, there wouldn’t be R“L cases situations that people say afterwards ”…OY, if only he said something…“”…OY, if only she told someone about it”…
observer
in yoec LA the phone rule made an incredible difference to the better. as an outsider i noticed bochurim learning during seder not texting, and keeping out of trouble. bochurim who wanted to talk got the kosher phone. it will not solve all the problems, and there will still be bochrum with phones, but it will still make a difference. i dont think it will create such anger on the part of the bochurim as the kosher phone is an option which i believe will be allowed to all without exception.
on the other hand, i believe that positive involvement and care is extremely necessary on the part of the roshei yeshivas, especially to keep bochurim in “the system”, and to bring out their fullest potential – something which we seem to be struggling with
CM
I agree 100% with what the writer writes. I’m not so sure I agree with his decision to publicly disrespect the Roshei Yeshivos.
YOU ARE, MAKING YOUR OWN KID DROP OUT!
YOU GO AND OPENLY,DISRESPECT HANHALA, PROCLAIM OPENLY HOW YOU WONT OBEY THE HANHALAS RULES, AND THEN YOU WONDER WHY YOU KID DROPS OUT OF THE SYSTEM, WHEN THE KID LEARNS FROM HIS PARENTS THAT WHEN THE HANHALAS RULES DONT FIT WITH HIS COMFORT OR UNDERSTANDING, HE DOSENT HAVE TO LISTEN TO THEM (WHETHER YOUR OPIONION IS WRONG OR RIGHT) THEN HE LEARNS TO DO THE SAME, AND IS JUDGEMENT MAY NOT BE AS GOOD AS YOURS, THE ONLY WAY TO HAVE YOUR KID FOLLOW THE SYSTEM AND DO RIGHT, EVEN WHEN HE DOSENT UNDERSTAND OR EVEN DISAGREES, IS IF HE SEES HIS PARENTS WILLING TO LISTEN TO SOMETHING THAT IS NOT SO COMFORTABLLE FOR THEM. AFTER SEEING ALL THE COMMENTS ABOVE FROM SO CALLED “PARENTS”, AND THEIR KIDS SEE IT AS WELL, ITS NO WONDER THAT THEIR KIDS FOLLOW SUIT. (AND THEN THEY HAVE THE CHUTZPAH TO BLAME IT ON HANHALA, AND SCREAM AT THEM FOR NOT FINDING THE RIGHT SOLUTIONS FROM KEEPING THEIR KIDS FROM DROPING OUT, DO YOU SEE WHAT HANHALA SEES ON A REGULAR BASIS? YOU CLAIM YOU KNOW YOUR CHILD, LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING EVRY ,CHILD NO MATTER WHO HAS TEMTATIONS, & BESIDES ITS NOT SO FAR FOR EVEN A WONDERFULL CHILD TO PAUSE FOR A MOMENT IN MIDDLE OF A TOISFOS, TO ANSWE A TEXT, AND THATS WHERE IT ALL START, & NOT ONLY DOES IT START FROM THERE BUT THAT ITSELF IS A PROBLEM ENOUGH WORTHY OF BANNING THE PHONE, BUT EVEN IF YOU DONT THINK SO SHOW YOUR CHILD THAT YOU RESPECT THE HANHALA AND THEIR RULES, SO YOUR CHILD WILL DO THE SAME.
Deniel always a great plan
You cannot stop bad bochrim from doing what they want to do when i was in yeshiva it was exactly the same as a regular college other than the fact that it was not coed and rave party’s were called farbrengens there wwas drinking and driving drugs magazines and newspapers littered the halls every weekend internet and movies galore smoking brawls beer binges everything all under the watchfull eyes of the hanholo who really are mostlyt interested in their salary and family and so they should be in a yeshiva gedola a bocher comes to learn if he came to party you cant stop him you can only try to show him the errors of his ways there is a very strong non-lubavitch satmer rule making way of thinking involved in this ban as for all the people talking about how did they survive 20 years ago simple 1414 had many Tvs (ask they chevre) madonna played loud in OT and bochrim stole from social security to buy cars to go to manhatten people boys will be boys try to educate them do not try to control them
THE BOCHUR THAT REALLY GETS IT!!!
Wow! I’ve read many comments, well all the comments, and there was only one which hit the spot..it was TECH TEACHER, HE LOOKS LIKE HE’S THE ONLY ONE THAT REALLY GOT IT…TAKE A LOOK!
LOOK, YES WE ARE IN A HIGH TECH WORLD TODAY, AND MANY PARENTS OR BOCHURIM THINK THAT CELL PHONES ARE A MUST ,AND YOU COULD SAY THE EXACT OPPOSITE OPINION
AND MAKE SENSE….HOWEVER, THE FACT IS
1) TODAY’S CELL PHONE (INTERNET ACCESS, WHENEVER WHERE EVER, BESIDES FOR TALKING TO GIRLS) IS BEGGING YOU TO USE IT FOR WHAT IT’S WORTH…
MY POINT IS YOU HAVE THREE TYPES OF BOCHURIM, GOOD BOY NO MATTER WHAT, 2 BAD BOY NO MATTER WHAT, THAN U HAVE WAHT YOU CAN CONSIDER MOST BOYS IN YESHIVA GOOD, BUT CURIOUS, AND IN SOME CASES MAY EASILY BE DRAGGED IN BASED ON WOH HIS FRIENDS ARE, HOW WILLING HE IS TO DO A CERTAIN THING, BLA BLA BLA…SO YOU HAVE THIS CURIOUS BOY, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? IT MEANS HE WILL TAKE WHATEVER IS GIVEN IN THE PLATTER…I.E. IF HE CAN HAVE A SO CALLED “CELL PHONE,)HE WILL TAKADVANTAGE OF IT IF HE CAN…BUT IF HE CAN’T HAVE CELL PHONE, IT WILL BE LESS LIKELY HE WILL BE EXPOSED TO IT, THUS IT WILL BE LESS LIKELY THAT HE WILL GET INVOLVED WITH ANYTHING THAT IT INVOLVES…
A MESSAGE TO ALL PARENTS:
I’M A BOCHUR CURRENTLY IN YESHIVA, LET ME TELL YOU…LOL, YOU PROBABLY DO NOT KNOW YOUR SON WELL ENOUGH! TRUST ME!!
I WAS HESITATING TO PUT THE ”PROBABLY” THERE.
I PERSONALLY WOULDN’T WANT THE BAN ON CELL PHONES, IF I HAD PATIENTS TO USE ONE, BUT THE FACT IS IF YOUR SON HAS A CELL PHONE WITH INTERNET ETC. HE’S PROB. NOT LOOKING AT THE PROPER SITES…AND TRUST ME I’M NOT REFFERING TO SHMAIS FOR ALL OF THE CROWNHEITS.INFO LOYALISTS..LOL,
AND YES I’M TALKING ABOUT YOUR SON, YES Y O U R S O N !!!!!!!!! YOUR INNOCENT LITTLE MENDELLE OR MOTTELE, OR YOSSEL!IT’S ALWAYS THE FRIENDS THAT ARE THE BAD INFLUENCES, IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT YOUR SON ALSO INFLUENCES HIS FRIENDS, (YOUR EVEN AN INFLUENCE TO ANYONE YOU SPEAK TO)AND HE MIGHT BE THEE ORIGINAL INFLUENCE..HEY BUT THERE ARE BOCHURIM OUT THERE THAT ARE REALLY SERIOUS AND REALLY GET IT, THEY KNOW WHAT THE REBBE WANTS..ETC.
ALSO I SAW A COMMENT SOMEONE MADE ABOUT THE PARENTS, AND TES SOME PARENTS
REALLY SURPRISE ME!!!!!!!IT’S AMAZING HOW THEY REALLY MISSED THE PLOT!!! PUT IT THIS WAY, IF YOU WERE TO WRITE A DUCH TO THE REBBE, TO LET YOUR SON HAVE A PHONE WITH INTERNET IN YESHIVA, OD YOU SINCELEY THINK THE REBBE WOULD BE PROUD?!!!!THERE ARE PARENTS THAT SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES, OUT OF THEIR DISRESPECT TOWARDS THE HANHOLOH…
AND THE BOCHUR THAT ORIGINALLY WROTE THIS POST UP, WHY R U GIVING UR OPINION?!!!!ARE YOU STUPID? OK LET ME TEACH YOU HOW IT’S DONE, YOU WRITE THE FACT I.E. BAN ON CELL PHONES!!! AND MAKE YOUR LITTLE ICON DISPLAYING AN X ON CELL PHONES, THAN BE THE FIRST TO STATE YOUR OPINION ON THE COMMENTS…
AND FOR ANYONE STILL READING THIS MESSAGE IT’S LONG BECAUSE I JUST FINISHED READING ALL OF THE MESSAGES…LOL I’M LETTING OUT A LOT OF DIFFERENT POINTS I FEEL SHOULD HAVE BEEN EMPHASIZED MORE…
I CAN SAY ALL OF THIS BEC. I AM LIVING THIS, NOT BECAUSE I AM A BOCHUR, BUT BECAUSE I AM THAT BOCHUR THAT IS CURIOUS NAD THAT HAS BEEN EXPOSED TO ALL OF THE GARBAGE AND TILL TODAY TAKES DVANTAGE OF IT! NOT THAT I AM A BAD BOCHUR CHAS V’SHALOM, I JUST HAVE DIFFERENT MODES, AND AS A BOCHUR OF TT IT’S UNDERSTOOD, BECAUSE IN ANY OTHER YESHIVA A BOCHUR LIKE ME (THE CURIOUS BOCHUR) WOULDN’T BE LEARNING IN YESHIVA ANYMORE…CHAS V’SHALOM….BUT THAN U MAY ASK, THAT MY OPINION IS HYPICRITCAL TO MY ACTIONS, BUT I WILL SAY NO!!!!!!!
Y? BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT LUBAVITCH IS ABOUT! YOU MIGHT NOT ALWAYS BE DOING THE RIGHT THING, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY EVERY DAY YOU ARE GONNA GIVE YOURSELF A GUILT TRIP AND FEEL BAD AND EVENTUALLY CHANGE,U KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BTWN WRONG AND RIGHT, UNLIKE SOME PARENTS WHO SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THEMSELVES…EITHER WAY, I HOPE THIS WAS BENEFICIAL, I HAVE TO GO TO SLEEP IF I WANT TO MAKE IT TO SEDER CHASIDUS TMORROW, I’M GONNA BE TIRED…
gon through diff yeshivas
wea all know that this rule will never be kept iv been through yeshivas where they where baned and almost 100% of bocherim still had them
the best way that iv seen was in miami yeshiva where u are not aloud internet on the phone and if u r cought with it its taken away
also we where not aloud to use it during sader and this kinda woked the best
Bochur who-s not trying tosave the world
You people are all crazy, and that includes Yanky Nemon.
What the heck does a little kid like him know about running a yeshiva? What does he know, what do any of you know, what is the worst thing for a bocher? Most Hnahala do their jobs b/c they care about the their well being. Most Hanhala knows what goes on in yeshiva, and here they have gotten together and made an all out ban, so that no bocher should be able to say “why can’t I use my cell phone here in Yeshivas… I could.”
Parents who feel they neeeed to speak to their 18 year old kid right now, are part of the parents dumbing down, and babying this new generation of bocherim.
And finally, I’m crazy for writing a darn comment on this website.
someone else
to someone: sometimes a good bochur can get tempted when he has a cell phone.
so this rule is a precaution for the good bochurim.
a shiur daled bocher
i did not have enough time to read all the comments…
but just a couple of reasons a bucher my need a phone in yeshivah:
1. organizing camp… keeping in touch with his campers…
2. mivtzoim…
3. “My Shliach” i.e. tutoring.
4. the three payphones in 770 just won’t cut it when one needs 2 call home/family.
5. for hanholoh/mashpia to keep in touch/keep track… of a tomim.
cell phone owner
To Menahel
If you truly ARE a Menahel, how can you write in such a disgusting & coarse way? You say you have 50 Bochurim desperate to get into your Yeshiva? You are a crude person & certainly a Menahal of any Yeshiva should know better to write/speak like this. The parents should think long & hard about YOUR suitability to “make a Mentch” out of their sons.
For the rest of you…PLEASE DON’T SHOUT!! It’s very hard to read all caps & you have some good points to make.
cell phone owner
THANK YOU ch.info for removing that disgusting post from “Menahel.” Much appreciated! If you want to post, keep it clean & appropriate!
To the person who wrote asking if our kids have ever written letters…as an educator, I know, as does every parent in CH, just how poorly these kids write English. You only have to look at the standard of these posts to see it’s true!
The last time my kids wrote letters was in camp & I needed a transcriber! Now it’s all email & texting. Phones should just be for making calls. I can’t text on mine because I don’t know how & I manage very well without this “skill.”
I don’t think this ban will work. I think all Bochurim AND girls should buy a kosher phone. In the good old days I used to send the cell phone bills to the Yeshiva to show the Hanhala who the boys were calling. Why don’t they go back to this system?
Boruch ben Tzvi(A H) HaKohaine Hoffinger
B”H
To: hanhala-s without brains wrote:
And where’s your courage? Hardly anyone signs their names on these comments!
Without brains? But you’re not without ego. How much ego does the hanhala have? Not very desirable .
Did you discuss this with them?
You made a salient point with an arrogant attitude. Why spoil your wisdom?
Agree with TechTeacher
Of all the comments I’ve read, the one that makes most sense to me is that by the TechTeacher. I hope the yeshivas will implement those ideas. As a public school teacher, I encounter cell phone problems in class all the time. Now, instead of passing notes, kids text each other, or AIM with kids from other classes. Or better yet, video record each other and/or the teacher. There is a cell phone ban, which the principal is not enforcing, and, to some extent, I sympathize with parents who want to be in contact with their kids when they travel. The problem is that the kids completely abuse the situation. I’m sure it’s the same in yeshivos, or else the principals would not feel the need to create these rules.
pss
shame on the disrespect of our roshei yeshiva he has no kavod hatorah and kavod melamdei torah oh!! he thinks hes better then them who gave this guy the right to write this trash if people know how to write well let respectful people write op-eds AND STOP COMPLAINING EVERY 2 SECONDS U HAVE NOO LIFE!!
nsk
How can you expect bochurim to comply with any rule if they have no respect for the [collective] hanholoh? And you can’t expect them to have it, their parents have even less of it.
Have you noticed that almost all bochurim here refer to the yeshivos, hanholo and mashpiim collectively as the “system”? They do not even think of all these people as human, just an inanimate obstacle to their lives. Ban phones or not, it will earn you no points in their minds.
LA is the only major exception I know — the Rosh has a name in his current and former talmidim’s language, and they recognize a live person in him. That alone is a respectable achievement nowadays (surely he deserves more, but we’ll stop here). I am sure there other exceptions, but let’s face it: an average educator in this monstrous “system” is perceived as incompetent at best, and criminally negligent at worst.
You cannot expect kids to think better of him than their parents.
And yes, those phones are a distraction, but the band-aid will not help the corpse.
Sorry for the harsh language, I am not trying to smear anybody in particular, but present the reality as I see it.
nsk
to ‘cell phone owner’:
They write poorly precisely because they never read and write. I do not even insist on English, by all means let them write to their parents in Yiddish, Hebrew or Russian…
We produce illiterate intellectual cripples. The monstrous “system” is only partially to blame, it is our own creation too. Most kids learn nothing from it. They cannot learn, and have no other practical skills. Only a good business acumen or exceptional will to overcome the handicap can make him succeed later.
mother of yeshiva bochurim
If there is a problem with bochurim having access to the internet, why are all of these bochurim reading this web site and posting their comments…………………
By the way, now that there are cell phones, pay phone companies charge OUTRAGEOUS prices- perhaps the schools can install regular phones for bochurim to use, because they can get unlimited long distance dialing plans.
Yeshivas are correct to put limits on today’s technology. Allow cell phones and monitor them for internet and text capability. If phone is innapropriate, confiscate and call the parents to send a different phone. TAKE A STAND.
BTW- the yeshiva shluchim are addicted to the internet. Ask your son how often the shluchim are locked in their room or office…………The hanhala has to enforce this ban on their shluchim as well.
a father who understands
Reading the comments that come with this article, not only do you see the epidemic that is basic English literacy in our community, but squabbling that has no place in our day and age.
Parents should not be upset. They are letting your boys have a “voice only phone” which is a reasonable request. I know plenty of nice Hasidic boys in this neighborhood who happily send pornographic images on their phones to girls, both Jewish and otherwise.
BUT… the next question should be.. when will they take away your boys’ right to use his email to contact home? Because the computer is a far greater menace to the youth of today than a cell phone ever will be, right?
I mean.. on the internet *gasp* there bad sites, facebook, myspace…
All I’m saying is simmer down and realize that if you try to actually constructively educate your children in a wholesome manner, then they are going to be less likely to participate in behavior that warrants the banning pf phones and computers, etc..
And remember… children lead by example, so fathers.. teach them well.
sorry to correct
“Telling bochurim to use payphones is impractical. In Morristown, for example, there are three payphones in the entire building and even when the majority of us had cell phones, there were always long lines for the payphones” there is at least 4 pay phones and i am there almost everyday the loooooooong lines you are talking about,i never saw (maybe i am just a mufshit )and no i do not have a cell phone so yes i use the payphones often
SOMEONE KNOWS ELECTRONICS
I AM A PERSON THAT WORKS IN YESHIVOS MY SON HAS TOLD ME ABOUT THIS ARTICLE THAT IT WENT ONLINE SO I AFTER I READ HOW SOME PERSON WHO HAD A STUMACH ACHE AND SHARED IT WITH THE WORLD DECIDED BETWEEN THE ARTICLE AND THE COMMENTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE NO CLUE WHAT GOES ON IN YEHIVOS 1)IF A BOCHUR IS CUAGHT WITH A IPOD THAT DIDN’T GET A STAMP OF APPROVAL IT IS TAKEN AWAY (PERIOD) 2)IF A BOCHUR IS CUAGHT WITH A DEVICE THAT HAS INTERNET ON IT (AND I DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU GUYS ARE THINKING BUT MOST I AM NOT GOING TO SAY ALL BUT MOST MASHGICHIM KNOW FIRSTLY HOW TO FIND YOUR THINGS AND SECOND TO CHECK THEM)THEN THAT DEVIVE IS CONFISCATED AND THAT KID IS IF NOT THROWN OUT GETS A BIG KNASS WITH A WARNING (OF BEING THROWN OUT)
NOW I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO MAKE IT CLEAR FOR SOME REASON IT IS IF NOT ONLY THEN MOSTLY THE QUOTE ON QUOTE COOL BOCHURIM THAT HAVE THESE DEVICES AND IF YOUR A PARENT OR A BOCHUR THAT WOULD LIKE YOURSELF/YOUR SON TO HAVE A CELL PHONE THEN YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT READ THE ARTICLE IT SAYS YOU CAN HAVE A TALK ONLY CELL PHONE
Rabbi Brod (Israel) on a similar issue:
“This past week a Kiruv concert given by Avrohom Fried was held in Netanya, with the idea of bringing together religious and not yet religious people under the same roof. The concert, however, was not without controversy – as a Kol Koreh was declared not to attend the concert.
An intriguing article in the Kfar Chabad newspaper by Rabbi Menachem Brod shlita discussed the implications of the declaration not to attend. It further discussed the general implications of forbidding that which is generally permitted. Often the ramifications are such that any good influence that might have come out of the concert (or of deciding upon one’s own not to attend a concert) has perforce been negated.Rabbi Brod elaborated that, in general , Hasidic philosophy adheres to the idea of, “what is forbidden is forbidden and what is muttar (permitted) is meyuttar (not necessary).” This is a famous statement of the saintly Tzaddik and Chassid Rabbi Mordechai Horodeker to Rav Shmuel Dov of Borosov.
“The spiritual elevation that comes through abstaining from that which is permissible, however, is limited. It is limited to cases where the abstinence is internal. When the idea of refraining from something permitted is imposed upon people by an external force – any spiritual elevation that can occur from that abstinence is eliminated. ” explained Rabbi Brod.
Rabbi Brod elaborated further: An additional Hasidic concept that might be pertinent to this case is the idea that practicing restraint in areas that are permitted assists us in developing our self-control and restraint when it comes to actual prohibitions. Any such benefit in regard to legislating a prohibition here is thus also lost.
When parents impose prohibitions upon their children, they must keep this in mind. The implications of this idea upon child-rearing are rather far-reaching. And it is not just parents that should be careful. Teachers, educators, and community leaders should bear this in mind as well.
The article was not necessarily backing the concert, however. It did , as food for thought, question the tendency of late to forbid kosher and reasonable activities to those that may be in psychological need of such things. All people have natural desires and inclinations. Is it not possible to channel these drives and desires in a kosher way?
An Avrohom Fried concert does have the ability to inspire. It is important that we not make the error of fitting everyone into the same mold and assuming that things that have inspired our generation in the past should and must still inspire everyone in the next generation as well. All people and all children are different and may need different methods to achieve the same end – bringing us ever closer to Avinu Shebashamayim.”
Anonymous
As a bochur starting Zal next year, I heard about the ban and was very disappointed. I use my cell phone a lot and it can be a very useful tool. Yes, cell phones are an issue in Yeshivas, but I believe it’s a minor one. While I disagree with the way the author wrote this article, I believe he brought up many good points. Not every bochur uses a cell phone for inappropriate things. A Kosher Phone should CERTAINLY be acceptable, except in class. Even beyond the Kosher Phone, a regular cell phone can be okay if it is moderated. I wish that banning cell phones could solve all the Yeshivas problems, but I think it will only alienate bochrim further than they already are.