1. Hmm… I'm going to the waiting room (770).Hello friends,
2. Whatever...
3. Haven't thought about it yet...
4. Plans? Fe! The Aibishter firt di velt.
5. Jump from one L'chaim to another and dance at a Chasunah in between.
6. I'll take any job that'll come my way.
After so many years living in the system, you're kinda sick of the 'system' and all that it stands for. So with shlichus, Semicha and a successful survival thorough the system all behind you, you feel that it's time to finally live the life, a.k.a. do whatever you want with zero responsibility and no productivity.
Continued in the Extended Article!
Op-Ed: So what are your Plans for Next Year?
1. Hmm… I’m going to the waiting room (770).
2. Whatever…
3. Haven’t thought about it yet…
4. Plans? Fe! The Aibishter firt di velt.
5. Jump from one L’chaim to another and dance at a Chasunah in between.
6. I’ll take any job that’ll come my way.
Hello friends,
After so many years living in the system, you’re kinda sick of the ‘system’ and all that it stands for. So with shlichus, Semicha and a successful survival thorough the system all behind you, you feel that it’s time to finally live the life, a.k.a. do whatever you want with zero responsibility and no productivity.
Continued in the Extended Article!
Sounds like a plan! Eh? Sure doesn’t!
Contrary to what you think, life doesn’t begin (nor end) at marriage. The future is the outcome of today. Marriage is but a process in your mission on this world, another step towards accomplishing the reason you were put here in the first place. There is mo such thing as a waiting room! When the right time comes you’ll go! Until then it’s obviously not the time yet, so there is nothing to wait for!!!
Horses don’t become human when they marry and vice versa.
Dear Tomim, you might remain a Bochur for a month, six months, a year or maybe two; Utilize the time to the utmost, for every mission is precious and every act has a lifetime effect
This Op-Ed reflects the views of its author. It does not necessarily reflect the views of CrownHeights.info nor of its Editors.
A reader that wishes to make his or her voice heard on any topic of their desire is welcome to submit his or her Op-Ed to News@CrownHeights.info.
Yossi
what you wirte is like saying the sky is blue! dont say things that are obvious without a solution
nice
Short, SWEET and to the point (and may I say motivational)
BEAT THE System
Try Chabadmatch.com and the shluchim’s office and make a schedual to take smecha and dayonis fahers. At night go to COPE for computer courses or Toro Use the Pell & TAP Grants Student loans etc. 770 and Moristown give a colledge digree only if you ask! Use your recourses ie everyone you know.
Get busy. Bihatzlocha!
zalman
o thank you, now i feel better!
Concerned Mother
Dear Author,
What do you suggest these tomim do while “they wait”? Many shluchim do not want to hire single bochurim without long term commitment, and we know very well, that a bochur is unlikely to commit, not knowing where his life/wife will take him.
And for guys who just dont have zitz fleish to complete the process of the “system” mainly referring to “smicha” does that mean they are unaccomplished tomim, and not your average bochur?? Will they be labeled as a bochur, who did not complete “the system”??
What are alternate plans for such bochurim?? Who is taking responsibilities to personlize smicha programs for them. Are they just gonna have to sit around and wait for diff opportunities to come along so they can go on with life??
And if a learned bochur DOES want to sit and wait in 770 till he get’s married, what’s wrong with that.. he sees his learning as his accomplishment for this time…
Even more so, if a bochur wants to hop around from lchaim to lchaim or dance from weddding to wedding, let him be bsmicha, that’s where he gets his joy from!!
Not sure what was to be implemented by this OP-ED..
Author please specify your message.
A Vort Af an Ort!!!!!!
This article started to address a very important issue, but stopped short of reaching its goal.
ONE (not the only) problem of the conveyer-belt system, is that when bochurim simply drop off the end after smicha, they haven’t got the faintest idea what they can/want/will do with their lives.
There is obviously a serious failing in our system if we are producing graduates year after year, with no direction and no clue what to do next.
I believe a serious issue is, that never, in 22 years of our education does anyone ever mention the word “parnosa”. All we talk about is Shlichus, and that G-d will help…
Thats simply irresponsible of the system, why should a guy, who spent time and money on an education, walk out and suddenly flounder with a slapping hit of reality that he needs to go and make a living.
Our bochurim have no direction, no guidance, no qualification an with mechila, quite often not that many blatt gemora or that much chassidus under their belt. Whats it all worth? Why is necessary – just for a shidduch?? What have we come to??
Above all WHERE IS THE LEADERSHIP?? We hve no leadership in Lubavitch; az di kop iz farfoylt, iz di ganter guf toyt!
Isreali Soldeir (chabadnik)
to the author.
nicely written. however, i think what your referring too is going out and getting a real job or somewhat of a profession. while i think its commendable of you to try to brings this out. you have to realize the worries of a bachur who has just finished the system and is in the “waiting” period. with the pressures of shidduch dating the demands of what a bachur must be like, basically leaves him in cornered and restricted in what he can do. for instance if he goes out to work in the world he is all of the sudden not consider as good as he was before. so it leaves bachurim to go into these dead end stuff working for a shliach or a school just till he gets married or sitting in 770 “learning” till the right one comes along.
i think if the world would be easier on the working “class” of bachurim more ppl would feel its ok after their done the system to go and work to save up for marriage or to figure out what there gunna do with there lives instead of waiting till after sheva brachos to figure it out.
may we all fill all our time the way Hashem would want us too…
Mendel CH - TO
Ah yasher Koach!
chabad bochur
To: A Vort Af an Ort!!!!!!
Amazing point!!!!! right on target!!!!
kol hakavod for bringing out the point so nicely!!!!!
Yaakov2
Unless you are planning on going on Shaluchus/Chinuch. A Bachur should start looking for a career job/go to a secular school. Additionally Shaluchis is NOT an option unless you have very good connections. Every place capable of funding someone is basically taken. It is not a real option for 95% of young married couples.
Concerned
Sitting in 770 is a total WASTE of time for 90% of American Bocherum. Its really only meant for Israelis these days. Get a REAL job or go to learn a skill. Chances of becoing a shaliach are very very small these days without serious connections.
haap
what the h-ll is he talking about
CM
What exactly was the point of that article? I will never get back that 1 minute of my life.
38 YR RESIDENT OF THE HOOD
TO YAAKOV 2 wrote; there is away to get a secular edu. thru frum mosedus .like toro collage, hang in there and stay a strong chosid..
eltere bochur
have any of you opened up 1 single sicha of the rebbe pertaining to bochurim before you blurted out your stupidity? think so. do us all a favor and open up just 1 sicha of the rebbe and see for yourselves what the rebbe sees in his ochurim and what he demandes of them.
Dovi
Concerned and Yaakov2
What you both said was a bit harsh and happens to be very correct as well!!
me again #2
I can not make plans bec.:
“mentch trocht, un g-t locht”.
(“man thinks, and g-d laughs”).
770 is not a waiting room
770 is not a waiting room, just from these walls you can get yiras shomayim etc
Confused
What on earth is going on here….
What happened to learning Torah, for the sake of learning Torah!
Every other word the Rebbe spoke was about increasing in Torah, and that was for ballei batim, the Rebbe wanted bochurim to be ‘shteiging’, filling themselves with knowledge, to have a head filled with Torah, ‘biz Shaagas Aryeh’!
Too many distractions lets get back to real learning, everyone on their own level
Offended
I will quote you:
“After so many years living in the system… You feel that it’s time to finally live the life, a.k.a. Do whatever you want with zero responsibility and no productivity”
You write very eloquently about a problem that you created in your mind.
I feel it is time to live the life. A.K.A. Learn, Daven, Prepare Myself for the next stage of life (A.K.A. Marriage) and YOU ASS-U-ME that this is “do whatever you want with zero responsibility and no productivity” Should I be Offended or ASS-U-ME that u r a ________…
Also you wrote:
There is mo such thing as a waiting room! When the right time comes you’ll go! Until then it’s obviously not the time yet, so there is nothing to wait for!!!
When the right time for Moshiach comes he’ll come so why wait for him (achakeh lo bchol yom)?
Also it says in a letter of the rebbe “With regard to your question whether you should seek a shidduch or wait until you are offered one, [the answer is as follows]: Our Sages explicitly state that a shidduch is to be sought “as a person seeks an object that he has lost.”(Igros Kodesh, Vol. XVIII, p. 436)
http://www.sichosinenglish….
Aquarium
Waiting room?
ask the girls upstairs how the fish look learning downstairs in the aquarium till the get hooked?
Survey
Statistically Most of the bochurim LEARNING IN 770 upstairs and downstairs are not itrested in getting married at the moment they are “living the life”
Yanky
As a Bochur currently in limbo (but BH with a goal) I agree entirely with the sentiments of this article. Too much laxity is given to us to just roll around between whichever Shliach will put us up, various Crown Heights apartments and any measly odd jobs that provide enough money to subsist for a while. Why doesn’t the community make an effort to direct us where to go?
A year ago I arrived back from two years of Shlichus overseas without any direction. Besides for some inflated version of some Shlichus experiences, I had no skills or resume. Unfortunately my hard-working parents don’t own their own companies and arranging an unskilled kid a job with their employers was impossible. I was left with no option or direction and ended up wasting the past twelve months “in 770.”
Of course it’s partially my fault, but nonetheless I see it as one of our greatest failings that guys can go around like this.
Our “system” has turned out many successful individuals in terms of business, Shlichus and even a number that have bucked the trend and worked for a secular education. But the success of the system has nothing to do with the system itself; it’s Darwinian-style survival: some guys just pick it up (and it’s not from Chazering Gemara), force themselves to learn a trade, or hook up with a Baal Habos on Shlichus that likes them enough to give them an entry-level position. The rest of the Bochurim without the acumen fall quickly by the wayside once they finish Smicha.
In Yeshiva I had many aggravated discussions about the topic with Hanhola. They all gave me grief because apparently I’m quite cut out for Shlichus, yet I’m so determined to be a Baal Habos.
One Rabbi told me that so-and-so dropped out of Yeshiva and went to law school and he’s never been successful – implying that I’m doomed to fail at anything else besides Shlichus. Another told me that Shlichus anyway gives you all the skills you need for a real job. Point in fact (the rabbi alleged), that budgeting a Chabad House teaches you good accounting skills and after doing it for ten years you’ll practically be a CPA. (I didn’t want to mention that most Chabad houses are in deficit!) Learning these skills from a job requires immense cleverness, something with which we weren’t all congenitally blessed. AND, you need a degree to be an accountant – or a lawyer, psychologist, health professional, or any other “job” that years of Shlichus can supposedly teach the uninitiated.
The most common mantras that I’ve heard in all my years of complaining to Yeshivos were: “So-and-so never went to college and look how successful they are,” and “Smicha is the same thing as a BA.”
While we can always point to the Boymelgreens, Gutnicks, or other individuals who rose from Bochur-hood to great success, and look around at all the nice cars circling around Crown Heights, those folks are the great exception, not the rule. Our system is failing. When people like me – and in all humility, I am quite intelligent and able – have to stock shelves for next to nothing, something must be wrong. And then what of the many others who aren’t so smart? What are we going to do to make $75K+ to support our large families? I can’t even get an office job that pays $20K!
If our society is to work, we cannot just fend for ourselves. We should be taught job-skills, or communication and interviewing skills at least. Send a career adviser into Yeshiva, so that even if the Yeshivas don’t provide any skills, the Bochur will have a plan and a phone number for someone that can help them out.
There are Bochurim and Yungeleit who don’t know what to do with themselves and fall back on Shlichus or Chinuch. The adverse impact that this has on the quality of Shluchim an educators should be the topic of another discussion. But doesn’t this underscore the problem, when people have to use Shlichus as a fall-back?
Smicha as a Bachelor’s Degree (hey, did you know that’s what B.A. stands for?) is the biggest farce fed to Bochurim. Unless you’re talented enough on your own to recognize its potential and how you can utilize it, it’s nothing to talk about. If you don’t know how to write, read, think and relate to the collegiate and professional worlds, it does nothing for you. And the only way to get that in Yeshiva is to FIGURE IT OUT on your own
Concerned Individual
Frankly, I think the major issue is not the Bochurim’s problem. It is after you get married that you get stuck. Bochurim should be learning Torah in 770. Maybe if they realize that for most married couples Shlichus has become a rare possibility and that they will be forced to make a parnossa after they get married. They will CHAP ARAIN NOW and learn Torah while they can, and while they still have a chance (following the Rebbe’s horaos not to think about Parnossah until after marriage). Ultimately, they will be:
1) with the program this way (this is the program the Rebbe set up)
2) They won’t feel guilty like most Yungerleit do that they never spent there best years, yes, their best years, learning Torah when they could.
I think there is no end to the conveyor belt, the Rebbe takes us all the way, we just need to understand what the Rebbe wants from us. 1) Bochurim should be learning Torah. 2) Not to think about parnosah before you get married. 3) Think about this as your last opportunity to learn Torah. If you learn now, you will learn even once the pressures of Parnosah set in.
Frankly, people are confused. 1)Yungerleit need to provide a parnossah for their family not bochurim!
2)Bochurim need to learn and not think about there parnossah, because, even if you do get to go on shlichus – you’ll never be able to learn Torah like a Bochur!!! (unless you chap arain while you’re still a bochur!)
Wow!
Yanky, I couldn’t agree more. Reading your well written comment only fed my frustration and near hopelessness. I feel trapped by feelings expressed in your comment and the reality of our society and its demands. I guess the solution is to just do what’s best for yourself. Without any support structure from peers or even family it is a hard road to travel but one that ultimately pays off.
Your Wives
Sorry GUYS you are all wrong!
B”H the system we have leaves room for everything. Your shlichus may not be GOING ON SHLICHUS. Yet, you still need to be doing SOMETHING!
There are all different types of girls out there. Some of us want someone learning in 770, but that means seriously learning. Others don’t mind if you are working as long as it is shlichus oriented. Others want someone that will go into a profession, and don’t mind someone going to school. Still others don’t want someone learning at all.
There are many different categories and they are all OK! You need to see where you fit. THAT IS WHAT THIS TIME IS FOR. Also, remember what you expect of the girl you want to marry. What type do you want?
You cannot expect more from her than you are willing to give.
Figure yourself out. Are you scared to go after what you really want? If you put on a show now, you narrow your chances of being married happily. Display your TRUE self now.
Key point:
Don’t be a lazy bum!
Another one
Go Yanky!
Eliezer
Yanky, you really said it so well and I could not have done better myself! I will only add a little…
Author, you write as if it is the irresponsibility of the Bochurim as opposed to a complete failure of the system! I for one am not the type to go out there and blame everything on the system as it gets you nowhere and is just an excuse not to succeed (at the end of the day YOU are the one that looses out and the system sleeps just fine so to everyone out there MOVE ON and just thank gd for any of the tools he gives you along the way – obviously the “system” not being one of them… ) however I take great offense when you turn this around and blame their failures on me!!!
Of course I agree with everyone who writes that a Bochur should be sitting and learning until he gets married and should not be worrying about a Parnossah. It was the Rebbe’s view! however some times we need help understanding how to apply the Rebbe’s view. When a Bochur is simply not going to learn then of course he should go out there and make something of his life! Not just “hang around” until he gets married!
A few questions: What if a Bochur is already 25 and not married? Is he supposed to still be “chapping arein” and learning, then go out on a shidduch date and when asked “what do you do”? the answer will be learning? You really think a Bochur is just going to continue learning until he gets married “because that is what the Rebbe wants” or because “that is what your supposed to do”? Is that really what a Bochur is supposed to do??? How about a Bochur who gets no support from his parents (and there are MANY out there) is he supposed to live of credit cards until he gets married???
NO ONE can even suggest Shlichus as a full back any more as you have to be VERY connected to get a position and even then you will probably leave your post a couple years down the line because “it didn’t work out with the Shaliach”!!!!!
So, to sum it all up. The Rebbe was against ANY college including a jewish one (the jewish ones were around when the Rebbe was around and I have never heard of an exception that the Rebbe made that one can go to a Jewish college. I confirmed this view with some of the Rebbe’s secretariat) so what is a Bochur coming out of Smicha ( – or before that stage for some – ) who is simple DONE with learning all day ( – of course one must learn “erev vovoiker” and be “kovaia itim” amd learn the “Shloisha shiurim hashovim lechol Nefesh – ) supposed to do once he leaves??????????? ANY suggestions??? I am open to ANYTHING…
Try going on a Shidduch with girls who are very well accomplished with degrees in all sorts and who have higher expectations of their potential husbands then they used to and see how easy it is to just be ”hanging around”…
Again, what is a Bochur who is totally commited to what the Rebbe wants supposed to do when he is done with the system? ….Anyone?
Thank you so much crownheights.info for opening this highly highly important issue albeit with a stupid op-ed…
Sara
The system is falling and failing many people in it. I’m a girl who went through the system, and felt the same way after Seminary. You are completely dropped, there is no guidance as to what to do( Unless going to a shliach is an option for you, something that didnt interest me.) If you want to be a “good girl”, college isn’t an option and so you are left to teach . I have long been fed up with being the “good girl” , and have decided to use my talents, and intellect towards a career , something that will support my family . Don’t be passive about your life, dont learn in 770, unless your there to learn, and dont go through the system unless you really mean it.
Suzie Q.
I’m a BT mother who worries constantly about what her boys will do when they get their smicha. I would love for them to be shluchim, but not everyone is cut out for that. We need frum doctors and lawyers and CPA’s and plumbers and everything else. What did the original chassidim do? Cut wood, make shoes, lay bricks, etc. We hear how parents can’t pay for their children’s school. Perhaps if they had decent jobs, they could.
FRUSTRATED!!
the article was poorly written but th esentiment sin most of the comments are so accurate. Our “system”is seriously lacking , producing boys uneducated with even th emost basic life skills. when is someone going to have the courage to open another boys school with a full secular curriculum so that our boys will have a chance. Lets face it – shlichus today basically consists of nepittism – no chance for unrelated, unconnected people. lets give our boys a chance at having a decent parnossah!
Kudos Yanky
Yanky:
Well done, Kudos to you!
zol lebn der revolutsiye!!!!!!
Married
wow…we have all heard this a thousand times
shari
When you get married, the problem only gets bigger. That’s when you really need the money, and a lot of these guys have NO marketable skills because all they did was “wait”. They didn’t go to school because: A)They didn’t want to ruin their chances for a shidduch and have people think they are modern B) They don’t even have a GED, and are on a seventh grade level in english. They can’t wing college.
So, they get marrried, and languish around another year in kollel (because that’s what e/o does, and after all, they don’t really have any skills or experience to get a decent job) while the wife works (because she probabally has more experience then him and will maek more $. Then, hopefully, she gets pregnant, has a kid, and either keeps on working, which is unfairly demanding of mothers (unless they want to).
The husband tries finding a job, or shlichus, but, as everyone in this sugya knows, it’s very hard to find a place to go these days, so he either gets a really crappy job, or if he’s lucky, goes into chinuch. This is terrible for our chinuch system, because many of the educators are there because they have no where else to be, and it is not their first, ideal choice.
housing, schooling, and everything in this neighborhood is so expensive. We are setting ousrselves up for disaster by training all bochurim the same way…that they should go on shlichus, learn, not go to school…etc. There is no one left to suppport our families!!
Zalman
Yanky, your comment basically sums it all up, I just want to comment on the last point you made.
Although it is possible to receive a BA from the system it is totally useless to most Bochurim. Either they don’t know it’s usefullness, or they can’t relate to the professional world because of lack of skills.
The fact is that a BA counts for four years of college. Any Bochur who possesses the acumen to pursue a career is not as far off as he thinks he is.
The system is designed to give a Bochur the opportunity to soak in as much Ruchnius as he can while in Yeshiva. What you do after Smicha is what will really define what your life will be like.
We are trained in Yeshiva to take on the world and conquer it. One must keep a positive attitude and work hard. You can’t succeed in life unless you are willing to put the work in. The only thing that comes easy in life is the air you breathe.
Point Being/message to Bochurim who just finished the system:
Although the system is greatly flawed in many ways, STOP BICKERING AND BE A MAN!!
Don’t whine or sit around wasting your life. Take control of your life and do it now. Nobody else will do it for you. There is a famous saying which goes like this: “G-d helps those who help themselves”.
It is true.
ChayaS
My advice to any single, male or female, is to take advantage of your freedom and flexibility to
1) learn as much Torah as possible and
2) learn a skill. And once you start working, put money away for marriage.
I don’t care if your dad is the King of Siam — you’re going to need a lot of money for marriage.
Ideally it is wonderful to learn in kollel or pursue work in shlichus. But, as Yanky said, not everyone can. And for some, poverty and debt is just not an option.
A serious attitude toward life is the most important. As long as Torah is your priority and you’re committed to a responsible life, you’ll remain marriage-minded.
The WORST thing to do while single is just hang around. Or goof off. Trust me. Whether it’s learning or working, BE PRODUCTIVE & VALUABLE TO KLAL YISROEL.
levi rapoport
dear eliezer,
tutor half day to pay your rent and the other half start going through shas and poskim
levi ,more to eliezer
if a girl doesn’t appreciate that than she is not for you
I-m my kids mom
Some of the posts were too long, too illiterate, or too confusing. Yanky’s was brilliant! (Someone, GIVE THIS GUY A JOB!!)
My question, though, may have been raised but I couldn’t see it.
What about Bochurim who survive the system, but aren’t cut out for either Shlichus or college (law, CPA etc.)
What happens to them? Who helps them find their place so they can become functioning members of society, raising nice families & paying their way, not becoming welfare cases, spongers, bums, etc.
There ARE decent, Frum, Chassidish, responsible guys who aren’t Shlichus material & maybe aren’t A+ students either. They also have a right to a life, but we don’t help them “after the system.”
What CAN be done? We worry about Shidduchim, but who worries about these guys? I can see at least 2 of our sons NOT having many options after they finish formal learning, simply because they’re not so academic that they can handle Law School. Then what? Where is the support system then? Oh, I forgot, if they don’t go on Shlichus they are useless. How do I know? Yeshivas say so.
Maybe this should be discussed by the Yeshivas (Morristown, OT, Montreal, ULY etc) who have great expectations but no reality checks.
Navigator
I heard that Rabbi Leima Wilhelm addreddes this issue at the Talmidim shluchim kinus a few months ago in Detroit. If someone knows what he said please share?!
Thank you
Zalmen
i am the 5 option it fits me like a glove thanks for pointing it out
everyoneisachossid
I cannot understand why 770 does not have a “misgeres” for the bochurim that finished smicha. If 770 does not provide such a misgeres someone who is idealistic and who cares can make this his shlichus by providing exactly this misgeres for older bochurim. they should be given a separate beis medrash. they should be given lectures by established rabbonim and lay leaders. they should have goals in learning and accountability. they should be given a certificate upon completion of the course. so if a bochur is 25 or 26 and is in this special course he will not be looked down upon by the girls because he will be part of something big. and there will be chizuk from others his age. and there will be interesting topics advised to be studied and interesting people will be invited to give lectures. and it can be a very successful program if someone will indertake it. and it can quickly develope into a shlichus for an enterprising yungerman.
Ex-Bochur
What I am about to write is not going to being relevant to everyone, as each individual situation is different. I write only based on my own experience.
I, too, was in the “system” until I was 19. At that time, I decided to skip my last year and go on shlichus. I also skipped smicha and started to work. (Yes, very unconventional and not exactly the chassidish way to do things, but I did it.) Like many others coming out of yeshiva, my last secular education was in 8th grade. My first job was doing errands in a medical office. It paid minimum wage, and wasn’t exactly the most respectful of jobs. After a few weeks, my responsibilities increased and I gained the trust of the administrator. After 2 months, I was an assistant to the administrator, learning valuable skills.
I then moved and started working in sales. I was a decent salesman, but I preferred to be arranging things (just my nature). So I developed a few programs and came up with some ideas which I pitched to people higher up than me, and slowly moved into a management position. Mind you, I still had no GED, high school, or college education. I was finally offered a job that paid $60,000 at the age of 21.
My point is (mainly to Yanky), that although the system doesn’t train you to work, you always have to make the best out of every situation. If it means stocking shelves so you can learn a business, so be it. The jobs you will get may be degrading, but they will give you skill, knowledge, and opportunities. TAKE those jobs!! Many companies will pay for your training while you work for them. Take every opportunity and show your worth. Showcase whatever skills, talents, and goals you may have, and Hashem will help.
Hatzlacha Rabba to all!!
Believe in yourself
Yanky!!!
You have presented this most important issue clearly and eloquently.
Your comment should be required reading for every hanhola member. Bochrim too, would gain immensely if they were aware of what your points before they have to find out the hard way.
Personally, as an individual who has gone through the yeshiva system, received Smicha, and is currently in college, I am aware of the accuracy and validity of your statements.
I believe that people need to recognize that the Rebbe’s opinion on studying in college is not nearly as black and white as some individuals like to make it seem. The Rebbe dealt with every person on their own individual level. While for some perhaps college is out of the question, for others, the Rebbe in fact recommended that they pursue a degree. I have spoken to quite a few respected and learned Lubavitchers (some in fact prominent Chabad educators) who assured me that in many cases, a college education is the RIGHT thing to do. Every individual has to recognize their own unique capabilities, and every person has THEIR OWN mission and purpose in life. What may be right for one is wrong for another. Five years down the line, will the same Mashpia who vehemently farbrengs against a secular education, pay for your bills when your swimming in debt with three kids to support and rent to pay, and no decent job will hire you because you have absolutely no marketable skills? Of course, the usual reassurance that Mashpiem provide- namely Slichus, is becoming less and less of an option.
I spoke to one former principal of a well known Lubavitcher elementary school who informed me that the Rebbe had told him in yichidus to go into chinuch, and in the same yichidus had recommended that he pursue a Masters degree in education. Later on, when he was already a principal, the Rebbe encouraged him to send his rebbeim to get degrees in education. Many other chasidishe people have told me how the Rebbe had recommended that they get degrees each in their own individual fields. To say that the Rebbe was against a college education is misleading and potentially contributes to many of the problems that our community is unfortunately facing. I know a number of bochrim who are doing absolutely nothing worthwhile with their lives, yet will not go for professional job training or a college education because they are afraid of being ostracized by the community, being considered “frei,” or not getting a “good”shidduch etc. (Incidentally, a girl who will not go out with you because you are in college to prepare for a career that would provide for your family is probably not the right girl for you anyways).
In conclusion, this community, and especially the educational system needs to do some serious introspection. We are told time and time again in yeshiva how yeshiva is the foundation for our lives. The question that needs to be asked is what type of foundation are we building?
confused bochur
Thankyou so much to the author for putting this topic into light. Its in a way helpfull to see that i am not the only confused soal out there. I fit into the catagory as finished the system and thinking about going to 770 to learn smicha. But there are so many things on my mind most of which were discussed by people who commented. Now i will have more material to discuss with my mashpia. Thanks to all the people that commented you really opened my mind.
Stephanie /Sara Leah Gross
I commend those who support both Torah learning and learning a “mishloah yad”. The Rebbe did indeed give brachot to those interested in learning a skill, le-ma’an kemah. I received a brachah to get an MLIS in Library and Information Science. Since I did invest in Torah education and since the Rebbe gave a brachah for technology, I put the two together. I work at Yeshiva University and truly feel that I’m using all my potential to be both a good Jew and do some outreach as well. We can all be Shulihim in our own way. A favorite study topic is the Seven Noahide Laws and how to make them known. True, I’m not a bachur, but I do feel that the Rebbe gave sufficient leeway to those whose calling is not to the rabbinate. Perhaps everyone, including the overly critical community, should study some of his answers. The Rebbe did study engineering, and the Rebbetsin was a librarian. Hatslahah to all, and le-hathila ariber!
Rochel
Wow,who is this Yanky???and is he single?!?!?!?!
Both for young boys and girls exiting the system there are less and less options avaiable.
truth be told (and yes we are at fault) it is looked down upon when someone goes in for secular training but as a (still unfortunatly) single out of town girl in Crown heights i must admit that i (as well as some very close friends)WOULD LOOK UP TO AND BE IMPRESSED of a Bochur who took the time to think of how he will feed his family.
We or our families all know the axieties of not knowing where the next meal/paycheck will come from. Why would any girl in her right mind marry a boy who just doesn’t know, yes, there is something said for a bochur who has bitachon but Ayn Somchim al Haness,
what do you thing will happen someone will see you and just casually give you a thousand dollars, lets be realistic. SOMEONE NEEDS TO REFORMULATE THIS MESSSED UP SYSTEM!!!!!!or well have more and more drop outs and at a younger age when they’ll see we have nothing for either girls or boys at the end of the line.
BOYS and Girls! THERE are people of the opposit gender that will appreciate what you want to do and actually get educated, don’t worry!
Some of the boys may not notice but there has been a huge switch in mentality among the girls of marriagable age. we are more and more leaning for the boy who knows Torah is his priority yet one who works.
We are just scared of telling our mashpias or parents that we are not interested in going on shlichus because other wise we’ll end up with a bum or a boy who wears Jeans(and yes that is a bad thing)
some mascarate that we want a frum boy who thought of the futur by saying we want a “ SHLICHUS MINDED BOY”
so please go out and get some skills like we girls do and prevent the financial ruin and mounting debts of the next generation of Lubavitchers.
Dovele
Dear author,
I liked the fact that you brought up the issue. No, contrary to the comments, there is no “one” solution. So I think the article was right on the button, touching the issues but not providing solutions.
To the Guys: these issues have to be discussed “aliba d’nafshei”, there is no black and white solution, it depends on who you are and everything that comes with it.
Is it possible that the reason that Mahspiim don’t talk about in while we’re still in Yeshivah, is because it should not be discussed while we are still young and impressionable?
Could it be, that were the teachers to discuss the “later” now, it would give an option to make the “later’ now?
To the Mashpiim: As a bochur who sat through hundreds of Farbrengen’s, I basically know your rhetoric, ”you got to learn in order to be a shliach, (well who says I want to be one) you got to learn to have an answer to Misnagdim (well who says I need to answer them, and besides is that a reason to learn? sounds pretty motivational to me…)
And they continue: “you got to learn because if not your not a chossid! (really? I know many a Chossid who did not know how to learn or didn’t have the Zitz fleish and they are still Chassidim and shluchin and askonim!)
Point being: I’ve asked many a Magid shiur, why we are supposed to learn be it gemoroh for six hours a day or listen to Shiurim about total abstract issues that mean ”bobkis and beblach“ for anyone who does not classify himself as a geek, and they really had nothing to say.
So, Tachlis, was this the plan? maybe it’s better to sit in Yeshiva and waste your brains abi not to be influenced by the outside? Should Yeshivas have different curriculum’s tailored to the many tyoes and IQ’s?
Dear author: maybe the source of the problem is in what you said ”the system is behind you”, WHY ARE WE DYING TO GET OUT OF THE SYSTEM? WHERE HAVE THE SYSTEM BUILDERS AND ENHANCERS GONE WRONG, MAKING SO MANY FO US HATE THE SYSTEM, AND COUNT DOWN THE YEARS, MONTHS, DAYS, HOURS, MINUTES?
Maybe if the system gave us a love for learning/shlichus/good things/room for creativity/love of who we are and for what we do, we would not this conversation, because we would have developed our mental abilities, social skills, creativity, money management (from mivtzoim and camps),
– work ethic! (do you realize that if were talking about a bochur who just stayed in the system and didn’t learn? he has zero work ethic, because he has never worked hard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
– and then all would be good, even without secular education, we would find jobs because we used our brains and developed all the above skills, [which today in the age of technology GED’s are not so necessary to make a living.]
Many points were brought up and each could warrant 200 comments, but they MUST be discussed, if not for our sake then for the sake of the hundreds of kids in our systems who either have both feet out, or one foot out, or maybe both feet are in, but their brains are out?
lev
Thanx for bringing it up
CH girl
I think the main thing is that people have to be productive. Girls do a good job of being involved with good things after seminary, such as being involved in shlichus, working or going to school. Guys have to evaluate themselves, if they are not cut out for learning, go on Shlichus, get a job or start some type of job training.
Also, B“H the community council has organized ”NightLife” for girls. Guys, should also have the opportunity to do some organized and interesting learning, regardless of what their level in Chassidishkeit/learning is.
bewildered
why is secular education looked down upon? LEARN YOUR REBBES SICHOS!!!!!! Parnossa is bidei shamayim, the more proper the keili to make your parnosso, the bigger chances you have of having a proper parnosso with all the brochos that come along!
To Sara...
Wow… as a Bochur who finished the “system”, and is now in college( yes I still consider my self, in all humility a bochur!) … I was beginning to wonder if all girls seem to have the same story…
In my vast experience it seems to be “finished school, went to seminary and am now working for a shliach or teaching.” While impressive, it seems they(all single girls) want a guy who will go on to be a rebbe or shliach or some other kind of typical chabad job.
It is refreshing to hear that there are “normal” chabad girls in college, and yes, even some chabad guys as well! While this may not be the proper forum for these issues, I wish you Good luck in your search… I know it is hard to find
To Dovele...
You got it wrong. I’m sure the mashpiim said that a Bochur learns because it is a mitzvas asei for a bochur to learn and, as it is brought down in Tanya, a yid can grasp Hashem through learning torah…. You’re not learning to be a shliach, and you’re most definitely not learning to answer back misnagdim!
You continue with, “you got to learn because if not you’re not a chossid! (really? I know many a Chossid who did not know how to learn or didn’t have the Zitz fleish and they are still Chassidim and shluchin and askonim!)“.
That is incorrect. You have to learn because you are a frum yid and this is your tafkid. As a chassid you should go lifnim meshuras hadin and try to learn more than you would had you not been a chassid. However, you also have the obligation to provide for your family after marriage. That is where kovea itim comes in.
This past Shabbos, I read a very interesting interview of Rabbi Shochet (the rosh in California). He said a bochur’s tafkid is not to become a shliach. A bochur’s tafkid is to learn. Period. However, since there is a fire raging and the spiritual welfare of so many yidden are at stake, we have to do something. But that is not the goal! The goal is that everyone should know Hashem and should be able to sit and learn the heilige torah. Tov li toras picha mealphay zahav vakesef!
You say that you’ve asked numerious Magidei shiur, why it is necessary to ”learn gemarrah six hours a day or listen to Shiurim about total abstract issues that mean ”bobkis and beblach“ for anyone who does not classify himself as a geek, and they really had nothing to say.“
Firstly, how could you call the learning of abstract issues ”bobkis and beblach“. That shows total disrespect to torah. The whole torah was given from Hashem and we are obligated to learn everything. It may seem abstract or not relevant, but must be learned with equal geshmak as one would learn halachos lmaaseh!
”So, Tachlis, was this the plan? Maybe it’s better to sit in Yeshiva and waste your brains about not to be influenced by the outside?“
Huh!?! Yeshiva instills within you how to be a frum ehrliche, chassidishe yid.” Hakaras Hatov!?!?!
And baruch Hashem, today there are a wealth of yeshivos that are catered to individuals who can’t learn a whole day!
Finally, how can people scorn the “system” and “system builders”?!!?!
Who do you think the system builder in our community was and still is (for a tzaddik gives us koach forever!)? THE REBBE. If you criticize the system, you are indirectly criticizing the Rebbe. So take care before you speak.
Last of all, a serious Yeshiva Bochur is learning excellent work ethic in his years as a responsible concientious bochur. Does a public school student have to wake up at 6am and study till 9pm? Going from work to Yeshiva is not half as hard for a Yeshiva Bochur as it is for a public school attendee. A Bochur works HARD! If he is fulfilling what is expected of him!
I have so much more to say but no patience to type.
I’ll end off the same way as everyone else beginning with a little twist. Everyone must learn. Be it fifteen hours a day or fifteen minutes each according to his capability. Someone who finds it harder to learn, his efforts are that much more beloved to Hashem. And when the time is appropriate, get a job and be a responsible worker. Make a kelei. HASHEM IS GIVING THE PARNASSAH.
happily married
The biggest discussion in our culture!!!!
I agree with Yankee 95%….
One of our greatest problems is that our schools don’t have a proper curriculum set up.
My family became baal teshuva when I was 9 years old – I grew up in a modern orthodox hebrew academy then went to a Lubavicher system.
I was amazed at the grammar and level of secular education the students had. even though the lubavitch school offered secular studies – not many were interested saying “what is this going to help me out in life???”
I ended up doing what all my friends did and dropped the secular studies program – which today I dearly regret.
I finished yeshiva with top grades, got smicha. shchita, safrus and did tons of shlichus.
I got married right after Yeshiva in order to go study – but that proved me wrong – parnassa is a great challenge the day after marriage.
Today I am a struggling father of two and one on the way. I was just laid off a job – and cannot find any other job due to no experience or no education.
the only option that is left is to start my own business – which means getting into debt. How to pay this crazy high rent? am I ever going to own a house with this not normal down payment that I would have to pull out of thin air?
My point is:
Yes it is great to trust in God and it’s great to say the famous “scape goat” line “A man Trach un Gut Lacht” “A man plans and God laughs” however one must plan but should also plan to be surprised!!!
Our system has failed because there is no one forcing us to go to the secular education and finish a proper high school. then after Yeshiva by all means go to collage and university – don’t think about “ruining” you opportunity for a good shiduch – you basheret has been decided for you before you were born – so don’t worry – when your time truly arrives you will either bump into her, find her, or be compelled to look for her – but always remember that she is out there waiting for you regardless. trust me – if the girl doesn’t accept that you are in university pursuing a good substantial career – then think twice if she’s for you. In my opinion if there are any girls out there that don’t accept bochurim in such situations maybe you should research the prices of renting, buying and owning a home, vehicles, parking, gas, food, bills, taxes, insurance and the list is endless!!!
And for those who bring up the Rebbe’s teachings – look more carefully how the Rebbe always pushed to do more, shlichus is everywhere – including collage, university, and business – it doesn’t necessarily mean open up a chabad house!
Also remember that Chassidus teaches us that’s it’s never too late – so for those bochurim or yungerleit out there – my best advice to you all is try pursuing an education, do some market research – find a product that it would be worth to invest the little bit of money you have, maybe find a little talent you possess and develop it. B“H there are many more options out there – all that is left is to chap arein now before it really is too late!
Keep your chin up, don’t ever get depressed – don’t be lazy – and finally remember the old Nike slogan of ”Just Do It!!!”
Best wishes and blessings for Mashiach now!!!
NA
To confused bochur – 06/20/08 – 07:23 :
I don’t know if you realize that the answer to this question/crisis is in your own post. Singles are misguided because they have no MASHPIA. Thanks for being the first to bring a shtickle eidelkeit into the discussion.
I told my mashpia (a chassidishe yid, which heads a smicha program) after smicha that I wanted to work in a skilled secular profession, which I had a knack for. Within several months I was offered a 200K+ job with ZERO college education (the one who offered it to me, his firm committed to train me). And mind you, it was not a “baal Habos of my father” offer, rather an offer from a goy I met in a store who was in the financial sector, and was impressed with the level of yedios in the financial markets I displayed. Let’s not mention that I was never an alef student. If you are determined you will have the opportunities come up (if we’re zoche to hashem’s brochos). If you have no mashpia you are doomed for confusion.
Mashpia doesn’t mean your shiur beis mesivta chassidus maggid shiur, but rather a person who you are comfortable with at the age of 22-25, who is mikaven to the kavana. If everything was so black and white we wouldn’t need mashpiim. It’s not. We need the guidance of mashpiim, and the Rebbe asked a bakasha nafshis that anashim nashim vtaf have one (yes, ad kdei kach!). At this point you are a keili for hashems brochos.
I hope my post didn’t sound conceited. Everyone has talents and they need to know what their “parachute” is and red es iber mitten mashpia. If you have no mashpia, you will kack the conviction to pursue your talents and you will become another nebach. I see these XBOX fry 20 year old children who know nothing about the real world, and every 18 year old Lubavitcher has brayteh hasagos in real estate vchulu, and has a lot to bring to the table if they had the INITIATIVE to pursue it, with the Mashpia’s reshus of course. After marriage you can for sure pursue a career according to every mashpia (l’chol hadeiyos).
Hatzlacha rabba raboysai, ubsuros tovos.
A REALISTIC OPTION
Based on what I have heard, both first-hand and otherwise, the Rebbe was not actually against college education. In fact, in many cases the Rebbe actually pushed for that option (unless someone has heard otherwise).
What the Rebbe seemed to detest about college was its atmosphere. He realized that college held higher forces of klipah that could easily turn a person off of the derech.
Due to advanced technology in our world today, everything and anything is available. Amongst many of these is what’s called computer courses – yes, college education without the atmosphere.
If anything, this is what the Rebbe may have wanted (of course we won’t know until Moshiach what he really would have wanted but this is based on the Rebbe’s own Sichos). Transforming the klipos of secular education into kedusha – the kedusha of being able to support Chabad Houses and future Torah scholars – of whom our world stands upon.
To NA
So wait a second.
Every Lubavitcher yungerman is going to be offered a 200K position with absolutely no education, based on a little talent they had that they developed (with their mashpia’s reshus of course)? Wowee, what an economy we live in.
And every 18-yo Lubavitch bachur has breite yedios in real estate. How charming.
Seriously bro, wake up from your little bubble. It’s nice that you had a 200K job plunked into your lap with zero experience, but that is not the reality for hundreds of families (regardless of whether or not they discussed it with their mashpia).
in the system bochur - such a turnoff!
So many of the Bochurim just hang around 770 because they want to have the name that they are learning boys and not working but they are doing nothing with thier lives! They wake up late spend long lunches in the bagel shop and stick another hour of learning in and then go to baseball games with thier friends. It’s nice that they are so called “in the system” but as a young lady looking for marriage me and my friends say “why should we marry boys like this? we wake up early and work so hard while these boys are living a chiller life waiting to get married.” It would be more beneficial for a bochur like this to go and get a job. I for one would be more interested in dating someone who is accomplished in what he does than a boy who sleeps into midday but still holds the name that he is a “ 770 bochur”
Girl who would love to have skills...
As a girl who went through the system, I can completely relate. I did not want to become a teacher, so the only option was either doing “programs” or secretary work for a shliach.
I knew that I had more intelligence than a “secretary”, but felt my options were narrow. I debated with myself for years- whether or not to go to college- but constantly held back because of the Rebbe’s opinion on college.
Today I am married, and need to support the family… (while my husband is studying) and not so much my lack of degree, but more my lack of actual skills prevents me from getting a DECENT salary= meaning that we have more than $50 a week for food.
I appreciate the Rebbe’s vision, and loved doing Shlichus, and miss doing Shlichus… but I would have really appreciated a proper training program on basic marketable skills.
A good thing is: because I had experience working for “non-profits” at Chabad, I was able to find a job at a non-profit- even though I have no degree.
So Shlichus did help me in the “REAL world”. My issue is- that I don’t want to be limited to office work- since that is my only experience. So I am “stuck”- until I study more…
which is MUCH more difficult after marriage. Singles should plan accordingly, and build keilim for the future and keep shlichus in mind- no matter where they are. The Light of Chassidus shines in the darkest corners.
Good luck to all the younger generation in finding your way.
I don’t judge a bochur who has this dillema, since we have to wake up to the extent of poverty that EXISTS in our community. IS THAT NORMAL?
NA
I wasn’t clear in my previous post. My mashpia approved my “career move” based on certain commitments of kvias itim, chassidishe hanhaga despite the secular environment, v’chulu.
Hatzlocho Rabbo to all.
Yanky
NA- If your firm is hiring, do feel free to contact me :). The webmaster knows who I am!
an out of towner
The fact that this discussion is being openly aired is a big step in the right direction. We have room in our community for everyone, whether they be shluchim, plumbers, graphic artists or financial wall street experts. I will try to be clear but there are so many points to raise with this topic. As an old Lubavitcher I applaud the person who wrote about the jobs of the old Chassidim in Russia. Bochorim rarely sat in yeshiva for long, they had to earn literally, “to eat.” Why is it not that simple today? We have soaring tuition costs, housing and lifestyle desires that are not going to change, with the advent of the internet in all our homes, no one is opting for simpler lifestyles, everyone can shop and see what’s out there right from their very own homes. You no longer have to go to “Manhattan”, it’s all right here in Crown Hts. too.
The shlichus situation has been rehashed 1000 times. Any bochur that wants to earn money , go out and find a job, but first speak to your parents, and understand the system, meaning, once you start that road, one rarely goes back.
As a parent, I see it is 50% mazel, 50% chinuch, with one of our children in law school, one child working in the real estate sector with excellent results, our kids are frum, stable, chassidish and went through the entire system including “good” smicha programs. We parents, have to encourage our children and keep them close, give them confidence, self esteem and encouragement and we will have a community that is not filled with tzorus, deep unhappiness and shocking
behavior.
In other words, with the problems in Lubavitch today, thinking about wanting to earn a living in the future is BAD?
Thank you.
NA
To, to NA (23:44)-
My point was that by the time a bochur is done “the system”, he really doesn’t neccesaraly trail his secular peers (of his age group) by much at all. He can follow smicha with learning a trade, and do as well as his peers, and perhaps even graduate earlier than his secular peers! My friend went to follow his smicha with a pursuit of a MBA, and went right into business school at the age of 21. He got his BA from yeshiva, so he didn’t have to work on getting a BA to make it to graduate school. So you can even use Yeshivah as an ADVANTAGE over your secular peers.
I was fortunate by the offer I received of 200K, but most College graduates don’t make a fraction of that as well. It’s “birchas havaya taashir”. I know a couple that struggled their whole lives, even though he and she are both Harvard Law graduates! There is so much cynicism about the prospects of a 22 year old freshly out of smicha, but if he is not a ignoramus in worldly matters, he can achieve great things if he applies himself. And my opinion is, that you shouldn’t do any parnassa endeavor prior to marriage without coming to a consensus with your mashpia.
I wish I can wave a wand over the heads of all those Lubavitch bochurim not intreseted in going out on shlichus, and turn them into the future success stories of the business world. But I can’t do it in the Hamptons either with the elite children of the NY secular world. Trust me they have plenty losers coming out of there. Those who lack ambition will fail no matter what his past is, and those who have ambition and determination will end up doing fine (be”h).
Our Rebbeim never failed us. We can’t just sit and bicker, become a failure, then pin the blame on the Rebbe. If you want to succeed get off your back side and toil! Then Be”h you should have extras to help out shluchim and our mosdos as well.
If Only I could Turn Back the Clock
90% of our daughters come home from seminary with “Shlichus or Bust” on their minds. 90% of our sons realize Shlichos IS a Bust.
Daughters are looking for a Bochur that will go on Shlichus. Sons know that Shlichus is unlikely in the cards.
When they date, our Sons say they intend to go on Shlichus, while knowing in their hearts that it ain’t gonna happen.
After the marriage, our Daughter’s dream of Shlichus gets a rude awakening. The dream vanishes.
Living on Food Stamps, Medicaid etc. and the meanial labour wages that the husband earns – he comes home exauhsted. No time to learn even Chitas or Rambam. And there is nothing left for tuition. The schools are threatening accepting the children.
His friend went to Touro. He earns a living. He is on the board of a few mosdos. And he has time for shiurim – he even gives one! There is Torah and Gedulah.
Looking back our daughter asks: Why didn’t we let her go out with that bochur who went to Touro?!
I have no answer.
(Based on a true story)
Rachel
To If Only I Could Turn Back the Clock: What you wrote made me cry.
I am a non-Lubabvitch.
When my husband was in kollel he had an opotunity to become an optician. the Rosh Yeshiva advised him to remain in Kollel. His good friend dropped out of Kollel and took the offer, becoming a wealthy optician, while we struggled financially and continue to this day living a kollel life.
We now have a daughter on the “parsha”. So does my husband’s friend, the optician.
There was an excellent bochur that we both wanted for our daughters. The bocher asked the Rosh Yeshiva which shidduch to pursue. The Rosh yeshiva told him…pursue the wealthy optician’s daughter (as they can support your learning for many years) and pass up the kollel family’s daughter.
…and that is why I cry for you, me, and my daughter. Is there no justice? We did the “right” thing – and it costs our daughter the prospect of a good shidduch.
My pain is too great to bear!
Fellow Yidden, The Litvish world’s system is broken beyon repair. Hopefully in the Lubab world the system is still salvageable…before it’s too late.
In your world, replace “Kollel” with “shlichut” and you will have my story to replay.
distraught
to rachel:
your story has struck a chord in my heart. That is so sad and horrible. Hopefully Hashem will do justice for you and your daughter.
The system is corrupt. There are boys that are sitting and learning. Or even good boys, working boys. They come from geze and are looking for geze. They are obsessed with the idea of ‘geze’. Therefore, they pass up any girl who comes from baal t’shuvas. The same baal t’shuvas the rebbe sent THEIR parents to bring closer to yiddishkeit. yet, they turn their nose up at them. As do their PARENTS.
What is this geze?? So their grandparents ate potatoes in russia and mine were lawyers, nurses and engineers. My parents gave up living the high life to become frum. While I cannot complain as b’h my family is a good family where everyone is bh frum and I am sure it is because they brought us up in the right ways there are many of girls that are suffering becuase of the stigma that their parents are baal t’shuva.
WAKE UP BOYS! The girls who come from baal tshuva are on a higher level than those who have grown up on their zaidy’s laps listening to stories. Yes they have encountered hardships but someone who returns to Yiddishkeit is greater than someone who has done good all their life. The stigma of baal tshuva has caused many people to turn their nose away from possible shidduchim. This is a side issue I know and has nothing to do with what the author was trying to say…I just thought I would bring it up…
college girl
Yanky: dude you complaining about not having a decent shidduch or job? you should have added your number at the end of your little masterpiece, it seems like everyone wants you on their team here including myself ;)
To ‘beleive in yourself’ and all other people with similar points about the Rebbes point of view on university:
THANK YOU!!!!
why oh why does nobody seem to know these very important facts?? all I seem to hear is that the Rebbe was anti university, I am an educated chabad girl doing very advanced studies at university and I always seem to get these snide looks and comments from all thoes people who are anti college, it is so funny to see them jump to all their little conclusions about how frum I am, they assume I didnt go to sem, they talk to me like as if im just interesting myself in the religion, they assume that I am prepared to go out with a whole cocktail of fresh baal tesuvos (no offence, but someone who has been frum for 2 years should not be set up with a person who has been frum and through lubavitch schools all her life), and best of all I get all these thinly disguised hints and stories about frum girls going to college and eloping with non-jews… I have to work so hard to keep a straight face while I muster up some response to their rediculous display of close mindedness – HILARIOUS.
Its interesting that most girls I know from sem etc are teaching aka ‘the girls waiting room’, isnt it interesting that 50 % of 19-25 year old lubavitch girls have a burning desire to teach? bear in mind I am not saying that they aren’t doing a fabulous job, all Im saying is I remember the uninspired, untrained, and altogether un professional post-sem girls who used to teach me. Nuff said.
To all the guys and girls at this junction in your life – forget what people will say, do what you want to do for YOURSELF (these people will not be paying your bills when you’re broke) If you can study do it PLEASE! but also remember who you are, once you step out of the ghetto you need to have a strong frum identity.
Shimon
Yanky,
I do have plans for Bochur.com to become a site assisting Bochurim in their lifestyle choices during and post system. There have been a number of great points spoken about here. Please keep them coming.
We have a huge issue next coming up.
With the markets down, there is even less money flowing into Chabad Houses now, so the more of us making money, the more we can help those whose work we believe in.
If anybody has ideas on what they want it to feature, tell me, and we’ll try and put it together.
Shimon
eyes
there is living life for the purpose of serving G-d. money is a just a detail.
Inside looking In
This is all over the map! What is the point here? Is this an attempt to organize the problems of our youth? Perhaps the author should have listed the problems in alphabetical order for easy reference!
Not to minimize the very real issues laid out above, I just fail to see what the author is attempting to do.
I guess at the least, she/he has opened a window to the CH “sub-culture.” Good reading for those who are a little oblivious to what goes on around here