CROWN HEIGHTS [CHI] — The new Tznius campaign organizers have issued a letter to Crown Heights residents explaining their campaign. In the letter the group begins with the significance of Tznius behavior and dress. Then touches on their campaign, where its states; “...individuals have committed themselves to patronize only those stores that are committed to operate in congruence with.. ..standards of Chassidishe Shchuneh.” It also lists a few stores who have committed themselves to this campaign. The letter is signed by both Rabbi Osdoba and Rabbi Schwei.
New “Tznius” Campaign Issues Letter
CROWN HEIGHTS [CHI] — The new Tznius campaign organizers have issued a letter to Crown Heights residents explaining their campaign. In the letter the group begins with the significance of Tznius behavior and dress. Then touches on their campaign, where its states; “…individuals have committed themselves to patronize only those stores that are committed to operate in congruence with.. ..standards of Chassidishe Shchuneh.” It also lists a few stores who have committed themselves to this campaign. The letter is signed by both Rabbi Osdoba and Rabbi Schwei.
Sarah Leah
BS”D
I didn’t realize that the neighborhood contained so much untznius merchandise and untznius yidden. hmm.
Fight fire with fire
I will not be shopping in any store that participates in such archaic methods of strong arming a community into accepting their view.
me
This is total crap
wanting the best for our children
very nice idea, but the stores are not the problem. the reality is that tznius on the street has to change for the better, by both the women and the men. everyone has to make the effort to change for the sake of the young children.
BARUCH HASHEM FINNALLY!
kol hakovod!!!!!!
chaim gravitzer
Mendelson better watch it BT’s are making to much noice!!!!!
znius1
THIS IS GREAT! we realy need more znius and aidelkiet in the shchunah! I truely feel that the lack of zniuse is a lack of respect for the Rebbe. It is also a lack of fear in Hashem! The only thing that bothers me is that no clothing stores are on the list, part of the problem is that the stores carry shirts that are too tight and skirts that are to short! this is especially true to the yonger fashions not so much for older women.
Taliban Law (not Marshal Law)
Wait just a second here, who wrote this letter? Was it this Tznius Police group? Or was it the Rabonim themselves?
Why is there no letterhead to this letter? Why aren’t the organizers putting their names to this paper? Why all the anonymity?
This group “Anash Lemaan Kedushas Hashchuna” sounds very much like “Vaad Lemaan Kvod Harabonim” and we all know how grand their fights are, and how their wars are tearing apart this community are.
If you don’t put your names it your work is on par with that of the Taliban, hiding in caves and squirting our some ink from behind a veil of secrecy.
Why start a whole new Machlokes, don’t we have enough to fight about?
p.s. you only see the so called untznius things when you look for it.
Yasher Koach!
I will only shop in stores that abide by these guidlines, please post a list of stores!
Thank you for the wonderful work you are doing to bring back the holy name to CH
Elki
Bye, Crown Heights, It used to be a pleasure.
Damn BT-s
if these guys do take parnasa away from any one store, take pictures of their family and mainly wife and we will see how fast this dies.
ym
Yashar koaych for bringing back a shred of dignity to the Rebbe’s shchunah.
Shtikah kehoydaah!
People who dont care about tznius will:
bashmutz the organizers
make fun of tznius
ridicule the rabonim
question the effectiveness
call it taliban
and anything else that makes them feel more comfortable
wait till summer & coats are off
How about stopping the women who dress like you-know-whats & harass THEM in the street? THEY are the problem not the stores & their husbands who encourage them to dress & act like they do.
strange
wow! wow! wow! These to clowns finally sign on the same paper, and for this load of bull???
Thank you CHinfo
For giving the campaign a chance to explain their position and that this is supported by local rabbonim
Say NO to Taliban law!
Please let me know when the suicide belts arrive and I’m out of here.
to suicide belts
the suicide belts are here already – look what store owners are doing to their own community by selling what they sell
Dont throw stones and hide.
To damn BT’s. You’re a bit late, pictures already exist of one of the baal macloikus in a not TZNIUS way and there’s more coming.
esther
having standards does not =the taliban.that is a cheap,emotionally charged ,intellectually dishonest shot.it’s just as those who constantly accuse israel of apartied.
disgusted!
This has been the last straw for me. I’m so glad that everyone is so radical and unaccepting of others. It’s been this type of approach that has pushed me to reject certain laws of tznius. Through the struggle not to go all the way I’ve convinced myself that I come from a loving community where people are good to each other despite differences and that I will be ostracizing myself. However, as this campaign comes out with goals of harming other Jews, I have made the decision to go all out and “leave the community” and their ancient ways that lead to hatred. Good job tznius patrol.
correct concept but wrong direction
why don’t they start with the schools let them not send there kids to schools that have teachers that disregard tznius the kids don’t hang out in the stores they are in school most of the day.
To sucide belts
Don’t like what the stores sell, don’t walk in. People obviously want the material otherwise they wouldn’t be selling it. Get your head out of the sand. What’s next, burqas for women?
Welcome to Iran!
rg
absolutely shocking that some of you are accusing such awful things from people that would never say a bad word about you!
how about you stop them on the street and ask them questions? you will see how amazing they are and their families are.
they are not the tznius police and will not stop ladies in the street!
relax, they are not muslim! no one is asking women to dress in burkas.
so frustrating that they are labelled “BT” as 2/3 are FFB (not that it matters) and the 1/3 has been frum since bar mitzvah.
what a chutzpah you “frummies” have, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
the Rebbe would be causing a shturem with whats happening in our schuna!
anti taliban
beware
any stupid merchent paticipating in the taliban rulling
we wil not shop by you
it-s about time someone was brave enough
I think it is the right direction. There is nothing that can be done about the tznius on the street because it is hard to tell if the person in non-tznius clothing is even Jewish to begin with.
In the winter, the problem is not as obvious as it is in the summer. To people looking for excuses not to observe tznius, they will read into this effort to raise consciousness, a radical and non-accepting approach.
Whether the stores are the cause of the problem or not is not the issue. The issue is, someone needs to take a stand and someone if finally doing it. The schools started making the teachers adhere to standards whenever they are in public, awhile back.
It is not in the spirit of achdus to remind the public that someone who launches a tznius campaign is a BT. To become a BT is a positive thing and not a sign of degradation. A BT who joins the community is just as obligated as every other member to do whatever possible to raise the communities standards. Why is a BT supposed to keep a low profile and only be available when their tzedukah money is needed? To call someone a BT is a derogatory way, in order to say that the person is a newly righteous crazy zealot, is a very destructive act. Many of the members of the CH community are BTs or are children of BTs and the term BT should not be used when showing someone disrespect.
men are rude!
first of all not only woman are not tznius!! boys wearing tight tight shirts and tight pants is not appropriat either! so stop bashing the woman!
Tznius and concerned
Isn’t it wonderful that there are people who CARE about Crown Heights? This is the capital of Lubavitch.. Lets take a minute and let that sink in. Yes we live in the Capital… when mekuravim come on a tour to CH what do they see? Are we practicing what their shluchim are teaching??what they learned in hebrew school?? Cover your knees and elbows, married women cover their hair…tzitzis, yarmulka…beard… Its all in the torah..the basics- Please be a role model for yiddishkeit….
mojo
stores will loose buisness!
Benny
Beautiful.
Stupid people post sarcastic comments. It shows their lack of basic intelligence. The more people fight and bicker about this great cause, the more successful you are. Shkoyach rabbi mendelson and whoever else is taking on this roudy bunch of unprincipled lunatics. Most of the shchuna supports you
bad idea
I think what comes out of this is how people really feel about the BTs.First of all they are not BTs and for sure I know one is an FFB. But it is revealing to me how the FFBs really feel deep down which the BTs already sensed and know that there is definitely a line between the two. In any case, if people would just watch THEMSELVES,their wives and their own family members, they wouldn’t be so obsessed and fixated on the stores.Many people who shop are not Jewish nor are they orthodox.They can live as they please because this is the USA.Like it or not.
a reader from Brooklyn Ave.
disgusted!: I’m sorry you feel the way you do but are you really sure that one campaign is the reason you’ve decided to leave Lubavitch? It sounds like you were having difficulties with it for awhile. Hatzlacha raba.
I’m conflicted. I’m not sure how much this will do. It really does have to start with the parents. At the same time, I was frustrated when I found about the movie night. How low are we supposed to go before we try to change things?
I’m beginning to think that CH is becoming divided into two groups at least. “Modern Lubavitchers” who really look like they come from Kings Highway and regular Lubavitchers. How do we make this one big family again?
Shmuli
TO: men are rude!
it’s true that some some men wear tight clothing, but that’s the least important! First, the WOMAN need to make sure they cover their knees, elbows, proper necklines, ect. But how many men wear sleeveless shirts! How many go in shorts! NONE!!!!
it’s the woman who need to cover whatever needs to be covered. Let it be tight clothing, FOR NOW. Later everyone will start wearing more loose clothing if necessary!!!
Moshe
I am committed on LEAVING Crown Heights and others will follow :) you make Crown Heights look restarted.
disgusted with situation
I live in Flatbush and all the guys here know that you need to go to CH to check out the girls.
So all the FFB’s that think that the rotzon of the Rebbe is to allow the situation to continue and not to say anything less we turn into the taliban, should realize that the lack of tznius in CH has caused the greatst disrespect to Lubavitch and the community.
to disgusted
to disgusted! wrote:
Don’t blame your taivos on others. Did anyone ever throw stones at you? You decided what tznius is for you, disregarding the Alter Rebbe, the Tzemach Tzedek and the Rebbe’s letters about this and created your own standard. Since some “B”Ts, taliban, meshugoyim” decided that they don’t have to bow down to your way of life your’e offended. Get a life. You’re not the center of the world, what you think is not important, and if you want to be reckoned with, dress the way our nesiim want you to.
BPYid
Mazal Tov to Lubavichers for starting to make a difference and bringing Moshiach closer!!
an FFB
Shame on every FFB that commented degrading BT’s. It is YOUR grandfather and grandmother who tried to raise you to care about tznius. They are getting so much “nachas” from the way you turned out. I am sure that up in Shamayim they are patting themselves on their back. All their years of Mesiras Nefesh have paid off. Their grandchild has cast it away. They must be proud.You chose NOT to follow in their paths. They can look down at you and at the BT’s and say“why did I put my blood and sweat into it- only to have lost it. Of what value is being an FFB, if you are throwing it all away?” Do you even see your hypocrisy?
chase the taliban out
Dear Disgusted
Don’t leave! You can see by the comments here that most normal people don’t agree with all this even if they can’t express themselves very well. But that doesn’t mean you can dress in an untznius way. You can be smart & trendy & still dress like a Bas Chabad. My kids manage it.
to its about time….
You can’t tell who on Kingston is Jewish? oh, yeah. it must be because their tiny little bandanas barely cover their hair, they wear sleeveless shirts, mini skirts, low necks & flip flops. You’re right, it’s easy to confuse Jewish women with the goyim in Crown Heights. Apart from the color that is.
Who is going to put together a petition to stop these kolel crazies & the gang of 2? For this they join together? When people are dying, facing jail in secular court because of meseira they are shtum. Now they get involved? Unbelievable!
THOSE are the people these nutjobs should be targeting. Leave the rest of us alone.
Nonsense
Oh Please! The merchandise sold in the stores, and the dress code of the employees is probably the most insignificant of the problems of Crown Heights. To even make an issue about it, and fill the bulletin boards with this nonsense is quite irresponsible. Not only have you brought to light a non-issue in Crown Heights (and I am not referring to the Tznius problem as a whole), you have assisted in generating bad feelings. You (whoever you are) is the cause of much division and tension between store owners and residents of Crown Heights. You target hard working people who are good people with no regard to their parnosah. Who are you to do this? Do you have absolutely no regard for people? A letter like this makes me sick to the stomach with the idea that such feeble mindedness can promulgate through the community creating division rather than unity. Unity the Rebbe stressed with much emphasis. I don’t quite know what result you want , but my innermost feelings is that the letter is for your satisfaction, and your satisfaction alone, rather than the well being of this community. My suggestion if you want to make a positive impact – GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND START AGAIN.
Which store is (and which isn-t)
Everyone MUST take note that the letter DOES list Apple Drugs as complying with tznius, and it DOESN’T mention the “other” two stores as complying, v”dal.
Does that mean…?
Cant tell who is Jewish
I recently brought a mekurava with me to ch to attend a fellow shliachs wedding and she mentioned to me that she didnt realize that ch has so many white goyim. She was pointing out on Kingston avenue OUR LUBAVITCHER CHILDREN. I wanted to dig a hole I was so embarrassed! SO I Lied! I told her that recently more white goyim are moving into the neighborhood. Can I lie to save my face for my community back home at my shlichus post???
Saddened
This letter is actually tragic. If letters such as these continue to target the residents of Crown Heights, divisions will deepen and discord will increase. Can you not see it? The potential damage that can be done. One only needs to read the comments to see what a rift lies in our midst. I suppose we have forgotten one of the most important aspect of our lives – Ahavas Yisroel.
Trashmouths, grow up!
B”H
Isn’t it interesting that those who have a problem with this stoop to the most grub language:
Damn,
Bull,
Fricken,
Nutjobs (Now Torah is insanity???),
Taliban (a group that murders),
Crap
This is the language of people who need to grow up.
They want freedom without responsibility
Yes, “It’s a free country.” But with privileges (freedom) come responsibilities — to not go vilde with that freedom and peddle treif merchandise and behaviors..
Blindness
Anyone who wants to continue having treif stuff available at frum-run stores is blind to the danger.
And we are not supposed to put a stumbling block in front of a blind person.
GUY
should i measure the skirts when the girls walk in? no problem.
Reuven
This campaign almost makes me embarrased to wear my kopota on shabbos.
Just another version of politically correct thought police. If you don’t think like I think then I will try to drive you out of my neighborhood.
Great. Fine example of ahavos Yisroel and respect for fellow Yidden.
Time to control your own taivos and leave others to make up their own minds.
Puzzled by the fuss
The Rabbeim are only reiterating what is already written in the TORAH!! If anyone has a problem with that is it because it infringes on their personal pleasure zone or nudge their concience? The Torah tells us how to live and dress. We do not have to be unfashionable or frumpy – just to dress ad behave in a tznuis manner. What is“Talliban” about that?
How-s about some self-respect?
B”H
To MOJO and others with his complaint:
Hashem bentches those who hold fast to Torah.
There is no need for any business to fear losing any parnassah by getting rid of the treif.
Many frei Yidden become baalei teshuvah and change their business hours to be closed on Shabbos. And they generally lose nothing — in fact, in many cases, business improves.
AND, they keep their self respect! That, my friends, is priceless.
CHANI
BS”D
OH BOY – ALL THESE INCREDIBLY CHARGED COMMENTS, WHERE ARE WE?
AYEKA?
MY OPINION:
IF WE WERE TAUGHT HOW TO HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH HASHEM,
THIS WOULDN’T BE AN ISSUE.
IF ONE FEELS LIKE ROYALTY….WHY WD YOU WANT TO WEAR X Y OR Z.
GO FOR THE GOLD
BE A BAS YISROEL :)
THE REST IS HISTORY.
this is great
this is great.
what the next step.
loving this
justmoish
To those leaving crown heights don’t let the door hit you in the rear. At least we’ll have another parking space. Grass ain’t greener on the other side..some of you just need to grow up.
Most will shop wherever they want regardless of this mindless rabble – the rabbonim have nothing else to show so they picked a winner. Y’all get back to work and see you tonite in shul, or on the block….
Remember, that door shuts mighty tight – hold on :o
To all the nay sayers
instead of complaining that this is too extreme why dont you go out and do something positive.
Start tznius clases start a tznius campign and raise money to help the schools reward students who are extra tzniusdig.
Lets be honest. This problem is so big and dificult to deal with that there is space for anyone who is sincere about his yiddishkeit to help.
Go ahead do something positive in a manner that make sense to you.
annoyed
I suppose people are bored with life and have nothing else to do. Start with your own families and furthermore get a real job
33rd
They are 100% right.
They are doing it the WRONG way.
Dear Disgusted -- Some caring for you
Dear Disgusted,
Parents and teachers are not out to get you to be their best friend. Same holds true for this brave new group.
They love you enough to risk that you are going to get very angry at them, when they try to make sure that you do the right thing.
This group is simply trying to bring Crown Heights back up to Torah standards. You’re giving them way too much power, because ultimately, they can’t force your hand, nor anyone else’s.
I don’t know whether to think your letter is your Yetzer Hara talking, or whether you feel you had too harsh of an upbringing. But it’s not the Tznius guidelines of Torah you need to be complaining about. It’s the feeling you have, that you’re “unaccepted”.
If you were brought up here, and you paid at least a little attention in school, I think you know deep down in your heart of hearts that Tznius is all about respecting yourself as a Bas (or Ben?) Yisroel.
Please don’t use your Yetzer Hara, or your own personal problems, as an excuse to turn from Torah.
Sometimes it has to NOT be chesed-chesed-chesed all the time. Gevurah is holy too! And Tiferes results from adding some gevurah to chesed.
Eventually, it’s time to take off the poopy diaper and throw it away for something much cleaner, no matter how much the little one protests.
If you are from Crown Heights, it has got to be true that there was at least one teacher/camp counselor/mashpia in all of your years here, who had an approach that you did not find “unaccepting and radical”, but was nevertheless standing up for true-Torah Judaism.
Please talk this over with them, even if it’s literally been years since you’ve been in touch with them. I guarantee that they’d love to hear from you.
Thank you
The truth hurts….
yes, you are all feeling bad since your hishkashrus to rebbe is nil… Coming just a day after Yud Shvat you must feel sickened. No wonder YOU didn’t sign your name with YOUR nasty comment!
Get a life! Let’s bring back our community, we deserve better!
Flyer please
How can we receive a copy?
Chazak V-ametz
Thank you and keep up the great work!
To all those made to feel uncomfortable
If we are the taliban then why are you not leaving… good riddance! You are a sore eye to the community.
we deserve better
there are many organizations around to help the tznius crisis. why don’t we implement them in the schools and for adults?
Strength is in number
Can we get more signatures on this campaign?
Tznius needs to start at home
While I applaud the efforts of this group, the way to change things is by starting at home. I grew up in a community where the entire family had to commit to following the school’s standards of tznius ever day of the week. Which means, if a teacher saw you on Shabbos dressed untzniusdig you heard about in school on Monday and were given some sort of tznius assignment to complete. If this was done here, think about how much more the community would change.
You Just Don-t Get It
Tznius has always been an issue in kiruv, especially Lubavitch, since ‘being out there’ in the world of kiruv and being directly exposed to a secularistic culture makes one, naturally, want to ‘feel like one of them’ when teaching about Yiddishkeit. It’s also embarrassing to appear ‘disconnected’ chitzoniestically. It is also only natural for women, irregardless of observance, to have a strong interest in fashion and make up, and whether you want to admit it or not, this does have an impact on the unaffiliated. And whether you like it or not, there are PLENTY of shluchos that fall into the untzniustik category. It seems that the balance of ruchnius is shaky because they constantly want to feel like they are ‘one of them’.
This is what I call Lubavitcher Syndrome. Trying to be cool in the eyes of the mekuravim while staying frum.
Case in point: untzniusdik women or girls will still pull out a siddur and daven on the # 3 line.
The only way to stop the open toe stilletos stomping your grounds or the sight of skin tight skirts and shirts is to look in your mirror before you leave in the mornings. The question isn’t will the Rebbe agree? or will the Rabbonim agree, or will the world think I’m cool, but rather am I trying too hard to ‘look like one of them’? If so, then change the size of your wardrobe.Your clothes are really beautiful and you have great taste. If you don’t see this problem, then invest in a pole because that’s what you look like you should be carrying with you when walking through CH.
Shame on the bloggers for using foul language or making fun of the people who feel strongly about a change for the better in your community. Since when does flaunting yourself inappropriately become the cool thing to do?
Maybe it’s the TV or internet that ppl now have….but don’t get me started on this one!
(it’s obvious that some of you disgraceful, shameless and spineless un-named male bloggers above are bashing this plan bc you are enjoying the view you have while rushing to minyan, since it’s similar to the views of the one too many sites you’re on. SHAME ON YOU. IF YOU WERE REAL MEN, YOU’D OBJECT TO PRITZUS, GRUBS!
Why don’t you go hang out on Utica while CH goes thru a much needed and TRUE makeover?!)
To Tznius and Concerned
It is in the torah, quote me a source. I doubt that people in the 1400 hundreds knew what nylon stocking were. If it really is, why did people only start keeping it in the 70’s? Genius!
outsider looking in
The tznius problem is so outrageous right now that I laugh every time I see a woman whose shaitel as about the same length as her skirt. They should either cover up their legs or take the shaitel off and not try to pretend to be something they’re not. I mean, what’s the point, anyway?
its not working
This campaign is obviously not working. There are only a handful of participating stores. Most people cannot be strong-armed.
Pathetic...
The way i see it, they’re upset that not many people agreed with the other letter, so they’re trying to make a big deal again… PATHETIC!
get priorities straight
Did anyone ever think that maybe you all should target the major problem of loshon hara in Crown Heights. I lived there for a year and was horrified at the gossip, and superficial judgment that was taking place.
Shimon
The Taliban will be defeated. Whether they get inspiration from a cave in Afgahnistan or from kolel in Crown Heights. Understand this: Tznius is between (wo)man and G-d. And when people for whatever personal/mental reason start strong-arming their way into other people’s relationships with G-d the backlash always makes things worse then they ever were. Twenty-five years after the “revolution” look how young people are behaving in Iran! The “frum” Iranians are hanging and shooting them and still the young people are fighting back. People who think they can “force” Tznius laws in Brooklyn will be utterly defeated and destroy whatever frumness is still in those people. These people who started this campaign need to be farherred, to see if their learning is really worth their being a financial drain on others. If not, let them go out and earn a living instead of tampering with other people’s efforts to earn parnosseh.
SHMUEL L
I BLI NEDER WILL NOT SHOP IN ANY STORE THAT TAKES PART IN THIS !!!!
WHO DO THESE GUYS THINK THEY ARE, TAKING BUSINESS AWAY FROM PEOPLE??!!
ARE THEY GOING TO TAKE ACHRAIS, DO THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY ARE GETTING THEMSELVE INTO??!!
resident
Maybe someone can tell the owner of teh new salon that opened up instead of prizes plus about tznius????????????? i went in their to get my shaitel done and was shoked that there was not even one curtian on the door of the shop. all ther is a lil mechitza for pedicures. oh so now we get pedicures and shiatels done in public. lubavitch is heading in the WRONG direcction. it has to be stoped now before we end up looking like modern orhtodox. what will be with our kids???????????? any one have a legitimate answer to that
the family spokesman
just because some of the stores changed certain things does not mean in any way that they are participating in this sick attempt to strong arm the community, they are however to be commended for doing their best to help those people living in our community by displaying only things that such people feel appropriate and asking their employees to dress in the fashion that will allow every one shopping there to feel comfortable. But for the record, if the members of our community feel so strongly about this then they really should remember that IT STARTS AT HOME !!!!
KERR AH VELT HEINT!!
FINALLY SOMEONE IS TRYING TO STOP THE TERIBBLE CHILUL HASHEM AND CHILUL SHEIM LUBAVITCH,ITS ABOUT TIME.
TzniusStartsOnTheInside!
Shmuli,
Women can cover up every inch of skin, it doesn’t matter. Men are going to think and do whatever they want.
Men should stop blaming women and start pointing the finger at themselves.
Being tznius starts ON THE INSIDE.
Yechi
I will now have to go to Utica to buy my papers.
I support Post mart it! they actually look out for what and who they sell to…I think they should ban selling the Post, News, readers Digest and the Algemainer!
it’s ppl like mendelson who is causing fights. Please post a picture of him and his clowns. It’s embarrassing that Schwei and Osdoba link themselves to this clown.
Vaad Hatznius: Please keep your eyes in Kollel and off my sister.
Careful
What a lot of people are forgetting is that legally, the stores cannot impose all of the dress codes you want on its employees. First, the stores cannot refuse to hire non-jewish employees or non-observant or favor jews in the hiring process. Second, while employers can impose dress codes, they cannot do so in a discriminatory way. Therefore, they cannot say women can’t wear pants if men can wear pants. Same thing for short sleeves, covered hair, etc. Therefore, you may be punishing these stores for obeying the law. Also, be careful what you wish for. If you boycott a store and it goes out of business, there is nothing to stop a lingerie or adult book store from opening in its place.
Reb Crown Heightser
I applaud the campaign. It’s really important to restore the dignity to the Rebbe’s shchunah. Are they threatening violence to the non complying stores? No. They are just flexing their consumer muscle to spend their money where they choose.
I love it when they say ‘they’ are coming to destroy our community. It sounds like the liberals in all these red states that voted for Obama, and now the realities of the destructive outcomes are coming to a fore causing a backlash and a resurgence of conservatism. Then you hear the liberals crying foul. The shchunah was 10 times more tznius before gimmel taamuz (we were always behind BP but still light years ahead of where CH is now). So now (after 3 taamuz) the youngsters are getting married and expect that their new low standards must stand unchallenged. sorry! It’s not going to fly anymore.
And to all you BTs: Please don’t take offense. It seems that those who belittle the shulchan aruch’s modesty code have little broblem belittling Balei Teshuva. As an FFB, Gezhe etc., I am truly offended as well the way those MO Lubavitchers talked down to you (I’m sure most wouldn’t, but the loud anti tznius activists seem to be just as insensitive to you as they are to tznius).
Conclusion: thank you to all PRO tznius activists. May you be rewarded for your initiative. We support you.
P.S. To all those decrying the campaign as slanted against women: I didn’t notice them discriminating against women. They want mens magazines as well as women magazines out. I’m sure the campaign is equally disgusted with the men tight pants (ichhh) types.
Mimulo and Post Mark-It??
According to this letter from the Rabbonim:
Apple Drugs is now “kosher”, kol hakovod!!
What about Mimulo and Post Mark-It??
Do they remain “un-tzniusdik”??
REBBEH FAN
I LIKE THE POSITIVE FOCUS OF THIS LETTER
HIGHLIGHTING THE REWARDS THAT BEGETS A COMMUNITY FOR TZNIUS
RATHER THAN FOCUSSING ONLY ON THE TRAGEDIES
AND I COMMEND CH.INFO FOR POSTING THE GOOD WITH THE BAD (GOO JOURNALISM)
IRONIC
WHY r there ppl who “anonymously” comment complaining that the “signed” statement is “ANONYMOUS”
WHAT I OBSERVE IS DESPERATELY WEAK PPL WITH “SELF-IMAGE-ISSUES” SCARED THAT THEIR TRUE COLORS ARE BEING EXPOSED,
WHY DOES THE PUBLIC BEING EDUCATED BY WORDS OF OUR REBBEH, BE SO UPSETTING?
OYFEN GANEF BRENT DER HITTUL!!
NO ONE IS BLAMING THE RISE OF UNTZNIUS WITH THE RISE OF TRAGEDIES!
WHY SO DEFFENSIVE!
is this a lubavitcher blog only????
reading some of these posts makes wonder if everyone that posts is a Lubavitcher or not because if they would only pay a little attention to what the contents of this letter is they would not be saying what they’re saying (that’s only if they really ARE lubavitch)because there is letter of the rebbe there that explains the importance of tznius so if a store decides to go along this is not a reason to BOYCOTT the store on the contrary they are enforcing something of torah and the rebbe!!!and we should all support them in our own way and maybe this will be the last good deed for some people that will tip the scale and bring moshiach
fed up!
B”H
i have had such a problem with Crown Heights shipping center, their boxes are just point blank inappropriate, and don’t start me on Apple Drugs voluptuous apple logo. I’m so glad these stores have decided to stop ITS ENOUGH ALREADY!
L.A. Morah
rurven,ersht now your’e embarrassed to go with a kapoteh on shabbos? when i see a man in a kapoteh walking with his wife who dresses like i can’t say what,that to me is beyond embarrassing .then it’s just even more obvious to everyone else(we live in LA)that this is a lubavitcher dressing like that.
dovid
Raksin , you have my support !!!!
———————————————————————————–
1 .- after world war two , a camp was liberated ….
the people from the camp were walking to a place , that the US army set up for them ,
to eat , wash and so on ….
a Rebbe was one of the prisoners , and when he saw a girl , also a prisoner , walking without long socks ,
came up to her , and said – “ a yidishe tohter mast wear long socks to cover her legs – tznius “.
Rebbe , i don’t have any socks – she answered .
“ nu , if so , – take my long socks , – i will walk in short pants , but you will be dressed tzniusdik, my tohter “
after a long time , when the Rebbe died and his family was sitting shive , -a woman came in ,
and gave to the family two socks . that belonged to the Rebbe ……….
————————————————————————————
this is the way you approach and take care of tznius ,
learn ,- you 3 morons , learn , – you 3 bolvanes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
————————————————————————————-
2.-, why you tzadikleh jump on the subject of tznius ?
look around , is this the biggest or the only problem ???
rabonim – mahloykes .
770 – mahloykes , mesire , lawyers , court …
vaad – mahloykes , mesire , court …
netzigim – mahloykes .
neibours – mesire .
shmire / shomrim – mahloykes , mesire , court ….
look at the prices of tuition , – why so much ?
look at the prices of kosher food , – why so much ?
look at the quality of the yeshivas , – are you happy with that ??
try to borrow 3000 $ , from a person , – you cant ,- that person was burnt already by somebody who did not pay back .
——————————————————
you jumped on tznius ,
– it is an easy pray , to terorise , suck blood , mvaze – a yidishe tohter , a frum
hard working store owner . and you look like a giboyrim , fighting milhemes mitzve .and human blood is kosher mid`arayso.
shvihas domim mamesh , and you have supporters ……….. oy , vey …
for the big fish , you don’t run , – they will have you arrested , and / or take you to court .
and you are scared to start up with them .
make a petition , that the rabonim mast make sholem , and work together – a ? i cant hear you giboyrim ?
were are you tzadikimleh ???
ps. Rabbi Heller , – please , keep your puppies on a lish .
pinchus
Our community does have a little problem with tznius. Crown Heights is the example for all jews who want to become more religious. We do not have to go into details about any gender but let us just begin somewhere. We should only continue to speak good about each other and hear good news from our community Crown Heights. The stores owners who are complying are amazing and have always supported the community with tzedakah so May Hashem continue to bless them.
Shame
Are we chabad or misnagdim ??
I never see something like this by chabad
Shame of the people who doing this campaign
Those against it are making excuses
That’s right! As an out of towner I have to say that whenever I do come to CH I am disgusted by the lack of tznius. It almost seems like people there forget (or choose to forget) that tznius is an actual halacha- yup, just as you wouldn’t think twice about not going into a car on Shabbos, tznius has the same halachic stature.
So those of you who are saying “how strange, what a dumb thing to do etc.” are just making some bad excuses for not wanting the right thing to be done.
Cheers to whoever decided to start doing something about this problem.
p.s. While there is this big tznius problem there are of course plenty of people in CH who do follow hilchos tznius. I am in no way saying this is everyone. The problem is that the non-tzniusdik ones are the ones who stick out (literally as well).
PROTEST
The tznius letter was signed by Rav Osdoba and Rav Svei. I am protesting the fact that crownheights.info printed comments of people who were “me’vazeh” the Rabbanim. The website notes that “Comments must be approved before being published.” Approving such comments for posting is holding back the coming of Moshiach. This is also an insult to the Lubavitcher Rebbe who appointed Rav Osdoba as one of the Rabbanim.
WAKE UP TIME
WHAT IS WRONG WITH ALL YOU STUPID PEOPLE??? DON’T YOU SEE WHAT IS GOING ON HERE WITH THE ABSOLUTE TOTAL LACK OF TZNIUS! IT’S TIME YOU ALL GET YOUR HEADS OUT OF THE SAND AND SMELL THE COFFEE. AT THIS STAGE WE’VE GOT TO TRY ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING TO TRY AND GET THIS NEIGHBORHOOD BACK TO LOOK LIKE THE REBBE’S SHCHUNA RATHER THAN THE OLD 42ND STREET. I HAVE BEEN AMAZED FOR YEARS HOW ONE ESTABLISHMENT HERE HAS HIS WIFE WORKING WITH HIM IN THEIR FOOD BUSINESS AND SHE ALWAYS WITHOUT FAIL HAS MOST OF HER HAIR UNCOVERED. THE THOUGHT CROSSED MY MIND (AS A WOMAN) THAT THIS ESTABLISHMENT SHOULD BE BOYCOTTED UNTIL THIS IS CORRECTED. SO IF CHAIM YANKEL OR SHMENDRIK TODROS DECIDED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT ALL THE CREDIT TO HIM. WHO CARES WHO WROTE THE LETTER AND WHAT LETTER HEAD IT HAS. THE POINT IS TO CHANGE THE SITUATION. ANYONE WHO HAS A COMPLAINT IS PROBABLY BECAUSE THEY THEMSELVES ARE PART OF THIS PROBLEM. I WATCH SOME OF THE MOTHERS THAT COME PICK UP THEIR CHILDREN FROM THE LUBAVITCHER YESHIVA AND I CAN’T BELIEVE MY EYES AT HOW THEY DRESS. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. WE HAVE TO DO WHATEVER IT TAKES.
untznius=selfish
in fact, those that are untznius and support untznius are being rude, selfish, and disrespectful of the holy place they live in- and to frum people who live here that dont want to see you half dress. its embarassing how people look in crown heights. if you cant resist the need to show off yourself and are desperate or insensitive to others standards , leave, go do it anywhere else, theres no reason why we should tolerate this. kol hakovod for this project.
whats with the shulchan oruch?taliban cv
tznius are halachos straight out of shulchan oruch – whats wrong with crown heights toshvei hashchuna? if u dont agree with shulchan oruch, why do you live in a frum community, why are you putting your kids in the same school as ours … its grand time to rethink your priorities!
Nebach
It’s about time they stopped selling untzniyusdike eyeglasses.
Yasher Koach
Yasher Koach for standing up for the Torah’s values.
There’s a reason why Shulchan Aruch begins “Velo yisbayesh Mipnei Benei Odom Hamaligim Olov Baavodas Hashem”. Every effort made to strengthen Torah and Yidishkeit in our history has been met with many ‘Maligim’ who are ready to criticize and call us names.
Stand strong and keep up the good work. With Hashem’s help we can transform CH into a Shchunah which Lubavitch can be proud of.
yaher Koach
Keep up the good work MEndelson! I wish more people would take the stand. CH needs a turn for the better!
MushMosh
HAHAH…rabbais are blaming the stores LOL… Good Job rabbais, you’ve done well with your students and community however you both missed the stores.. LOL
HAHAH
HEHEH
true that
I am 110% with this tznius campaign. Only stores that abide by the Torahs Halochos of Tznius will get my gelt.
Confused at negativity
Tznis is from Halocha.
HAlocha is from TOrah.
TOrah is from Sini
Torah is from G-d
In support of the petition
The people heading this initiative are trying to accomplish something good, through peaceful means, in a community where single voices are often unheard. Their position is not irrational nor is it extreme.
This campaign is not meant to be dogmatic. Unfortunately, however, people have taken much offense to it. Just like a company has a uniform or a professional dress code (for example, no denim, tie, etc.), so to, a store front should have a respectful presentation to the community it services. This community, in its ideology (if not 100% in practice) believes in a tzniyus manner of dress and environment. That means that it is respectful for businesses to adhere to tzniyus guidelines as interpreted by the lubavitch kehilla regardless of their personal feelings or level of religious observance.
As for the magazines being sold in these stores, I for one know that I don’t want my daughter learning about the “birds and the bees” from a publication she happened upon on Kingston Avenue. Let her ask her parents and she will receive age appropriate information with a positive hashkofa from them. Any adult can find out how to obtain these publications, or watch these movies if they wish to (mail order, etc.); but let’s not encourage our youth to stumble upon the wrong approach to intimacy, by keeping these items in their midst.
This campaign does not attempt to label or judge any person of this community. It is simply a cry from people of this community whose voices have a right to be heard: They value tzniyus behavior! Petitions have long since been the mode for individuals to effect change in their environment by uniting individuals of like opinions. It is a peaceful approach and this petition, like all others, has a right to be heard and considered.
the rugachover
this campgain is against ahavas yisroel. against what lubavitch the rebbe stands for. lubavitch stands for ahavas yisroel being positive. today i boycot apple drugs/sunshine drugs/crown heights shipping (albany,mendy im surprised you can agree to this fanaticism)see view optical.what are we satmare litvacs we are better then that.
Time is precious
you guys are all bored souls!!! this is the first time i commented on an article here ever!!!
How do you people find time in your day to sit there commenting on every article that is my question here!!!!!????????
yoyoyyyyyyyyyyyyyash
it’s true! This community does lack tznius,,,the idea sounds nice, but won’t work.
People, i’m not tznius either, but at least don’t be in denial that this community is fine,
I wear shirts that are a bit tad, skirts that are just or just above the knee and enjoy looking a bit provocative, yes, i do like the attention and looks i get from the men around me, it makes me feel beautiful….does this mean i lack attention from my husband? no. actually b”h our marriage is great, i still enjoy feeling beautiful….my point, despite all this, i know i’m doing something wrong, but i just feel like i need to live up to my counterparts who look better than me bec. they’re doing just this as well….
it’s the attitude that has to change, so that pple don’t feel that they have to live up to the gorgeous girl next door, who happens to look hot because she’s not one hundred percent tznius.
how to change it ? i don’t know, but i dont’ think the stores are the issue.
good luck though. and i do respect your honesty and sincere care to this matter.
LUV RAKSIN& reject his VIEWPOI re tznius
whats wrong with the Promoting the Blessings and Protection promised by Torah and our dear Rebbeh re Tznius?
I LIKE THE POSITIVE FOCUS OF THIS LETTER
HIGHLIGHTING THE REWARDS THAT BEGETS A COMMUNITY FOR TZNIUS
RATHER THAN FOCUSSING ONLY ON THE TRAGEDIES ch”v if the OPPOSITE…
AND I too COMMEND CH.INFO FOR POSTING THE GOOD WITH THE BAD (indeed GOOD JOURNALISM)
U can LUV the PERSON and HATE the IDEOLOGY (no lack of ahavas yisroel required)
REPLY TO dovid
You state that tznius is not the major problem, as there are many more serious problems in the community such as mesirah, the netizigim, high prices, etc. etc. Please note that the Chofetz Chaim, whom the Lubavitcher Rebbe once quoted in his sichos, taught that a lack of tznius is the CAUSE of all other problems. In Parshas Ki Seitzei, when the Torah speaks of maintaining modesty and cleanliness within the ‘machane’ of a Jewish army camp, Hashem tells us that if there is no modesty within one’ camp, then “ve’shav me’ah’cho’re’cha” – Hashem will remove His Presence (Shechinah / Hashgacha) from the camp. The Chofetz Chaim explains that the ‘machane’ refers to every Jewish community. If the laws of tznius are not adhered to, Hashem removes His Presence from it, and His hashgacha is lessened, and therefore blessing cannot be bestowed upon the community. The LACK of tznius is what BRINGS UPON US all the other ills you describe.
With you
Thankyou for helping get C.H. back to where we can be proud once again.
fry and happy
I was born and raised in Ohalei Torah and fried out. This tznius patrol untollerance confimrs that my decison was correct.
Tackle education (home and school)
Bais Rivkah and all schools should teach halochos of Tznius to the girls as part of the Curriculum. Teachers should take the girls into stores and let them try clothes and then comment on what needs to be fixed, added or if it is proper or not. Sometimes according to the halacho may be permissible but there are other considerations that could be taught only by example.
Tznius is not only for women. Men need to close the second button of shirts as well, and Roshei Yeshivos should emphasize it as well.
A big part of the problem is people that watch movies and identify more and more with the characters and their goishkeit.
Teaching Chassidus by teachers that are extremely smart, “with it” and profoundly chsidish should turn things around.
Every person is a complete world. We need to care about each child, and see on him or her, the whole future of Am Yisroel, and they should feel the responsibility (achraius), that that entails.
It should not be about tackling the symptoms only but most importantly the education must be more erlich. (At home and by the teachers)
Anonymous
In response to the copied post below:
I HAVE been stopped! A little 15 year old pisher bochur walked past me the other day and whispers “Tznius!” inches from my face. Excuse me. Try “Chutzpah!” And that is what I have to say to him. I am quite a few years older than that “pisher” and he thinks he has the right to pass judgement on me based on my outside appearance? Imagine if I could see a person’s midos on their sleeve… The things I would be saying to people (possibly the “founders” of this new Tznius movement) as THEY pass ME on the street, far surpass my lack of tznius. You don’t think I know that my knees aren’t covered? And do you really think that saying something to me as you pass me on the street and show me your total chutzpah is going to “mekareiv” me? Get over yourself and step down from your high holy horse. Don’t blame Galus on those of us who don’t keep strict Tznius guidelines. Look within youself and change YOURSELF first! I have Midos Tovos, I have respect for people (not just my elders), and I have the decency to not judge other people. What do YOU have????
“rg wrote:
absolutely shocking that some of you are accusing such awful things from people that would never say a bad word about you!
how about you stop them on the street and ask them questions? you will see how amazing they are and their families are.
they are not the tznius police and will not stop ladies in the street!
relax, they are not muslim! no one is asking women to dress in burkas.
so frustrating that they are labelled “BT” as 2/3 are FFB (not that it matters) and the 1/3 has been frum since bar mitzvah.
what a chutzpah you “frummies” have, you should be ashamed of yourselves.
the Rebbe would be causing a shturem with whats happening in our schuna!”
hypocritical
Attn Shmuel L,
I see you’re so upset about stores losing money because they are being boycotted, so you’re going to boycott the ‘tznius’ stores.
To me that’s major HYPOCRITICAL!!!
moe
kol haakovod, even though this was not the chabad way , but the fact of the matter is unfortunately it is just not the same as it used to be in chabad when people policed themselves, and it has totally got out of control.some has to stop the bleeding.
Chani
bs’d
I think the community is way too judgemental and harsh on youngsters, and by rejecting them, you make them feel unwanted and rebellious. You hurt them, and then they go and hurt themselves more. Bring them into your home, since we are shluchim, and accept them, and they will emulate your good ways, by feeling welcome by the holiest of chassidim
Chani
You should not be ostracizing people in your community, you need to speak with them, or send robbanim to speak with them, before you publicly humiliate them and casue their business to fail, because even if they do “teshuva” people don’t forget, and certainly don’t forgive, and will continue to boycott, whereby destroying their parnassa. This small group that started the whole thing, although well intended, hurt a lot of store owners in the community, as I’ve read about their reactions. Tsk tsk, too much politics for me, glad I left CH years ago. You are only preventing Moshiach.
Asher
The daughter of one of the rabbis who signed was sitting on a street corner again as usual. TZNIUS??
B.W. - Crown Heights
After reading all these comments, I have concluded (observed) what the demographics of the negative anti tznius commentators are. They obviously don’t have children, and are most likely in their teens. If they had children, they would see the fire burning, and understand the importance of extinguishing it for the sake of their children. If they don’t care to raise their children as chassidim (even the MO Lubavitchers with children, 95% of them, hope their children will grow up to be more frum and chassidish than them), why would they live in CH in the first place? So obviously, it’s a bunch of teens that when they’ll IY“H BE”H be raising children, they will be singing a different tune…
concerned about tznius in Crown Heights
I am so against this campaign & I have publicly said very often that the Tznius issue is a out of control. But what most of you refuse to understand is this:
THIS IS NOT THE WAY TO ACHIEVE CHANGE!
There have been some excellent comments & suggestions. Firstly, putting pressure on stores to change their merchandise or their employees dress is improper. These are not new businesses, they haven’t changed anything recently, so why pick on them? IF an adult video shop opened up, I’d be the first one there with my signs & bullhorn.
2. The problem is in the home. Where are the parents of the teens? Don’t parents raise their kids in accordance with Torah & the Rebbe? Obviously not. But the schools let them in.
3. Schools. OT is quick to toss out good students who can’t pay tuition, or to restrict them in some way. I know, it’s happened to me. But i don’t hear of any boys being refused entry because their mothers dress provocatively, or their fathers are members of this poker club that we all know about but nobody talks about.
4. Young families. Last summer my husband & I took a shabbos afternoon walk & saw 2 young married women walking with their very young children. One woman wore a tichel so far back on her head. Neither wore stockings. The one with the sheitel (halevei I could afford one like that) had a dress on with a very low neck. Both women were almost sleeveless & the dresses were way above their knees. As we passed I said It’s Shabbos! This is how you dress here on Shabbos? They just grinned & carried on. No shame.
THIS is the problem. No shame.
4. The men. It used to be that I couldn’t believe how they didn’t object that their wives went out looking like they do. Now I get it. They LIKE it! They LIKE it when other men stare, or comment about how great their wives look. And the way the men dress….who ever would have thought 15 years ago that men (married & single) would wear super-tight pants & jeans? That in the summer you can see they don’t wear Tzitzis? Forget about a hat…
So what’s the solution? Certainly not harassing sitting targets like businesses. THAT is what we all object to! If Mr. Mendelson & his friends look at these comments, I don’t think I’ve seen a single one out of over 350 that says there is nothing wrong with Tznius in Crown Heights. What we DO say is you are picking on the wrong people! They are NOT the cause of the problem.
Go to the schools. Demand they do here like they do in WB, Meah Shearim etc & set standards. I don’t mean insane standards but rules that say if a MOTHER doesn’t wear stockings or sleeves or totally covers her hair in public then little Chaya Mushka (what an insult to our Rebbetsin) cannot be admitted.
Yes, it’s radical, but it makes more sense than petitions & bad feeling. Now you’ll all say these mothers have the money. Without their full tuition the schools will be in trouble.
Very true. But tell me…are they doing so well now? Are teachers paid on time? Are they paid properly? To make an omelette you have to break eggs. I challenge Bais Rivka & OT to do it.
There’s plenty of money here in Crown Heights. How much is put into the schools & how much is spent on lavish kiddushim & Simchas Torah “farbrengens” to impress their similarly-rich pals? It is TRUE that these Shuls generate a huge amount of Tzedaka…maybe they could consider making their kids’ schools their new projects? Maybe their wives could volunteer. Maybe getting involved will help re-kindle what they themselves learned not so many years ago.
Parents, please remember. When you send mixed messages (sending your kids to schools with strict rules which you don’t follow) you are setting yourself up for real trouble.
very sad
bh there are many BTs – many many many have become more torah observant because of chabad’s shluchim.
in essence, how are they any different than anyone else? do they not believe in the same g-d?
i understand that there are disagreements about how this project was run… however are you aware of how many BTs are reading this website now?
those commenting negatively to BTs could have hurt many peoples feelings..
We embrassed g-d and religion and feel like we belong… however it seems this may not be the fact.. do people really have these harsh and derogatory views towards BTs?
we gave up everything…. for what???
to be a part of this community?
i truly hope not.
mother in ch
this is about one simple thing- “when asked why untzniusdike clothes were in the window” the owner said “because that is what people want” non-jews travel to come here to buy modest clothing and they spend good money on it. no one is trying to take away anyone’s parnusah- but it is about time that we tell the stores that this is not what we want. we are dignified and this is the Rebbe’s schuna. we should have women only fashion shows spotlighting the latest in truly dignified clothing. using clothes from local merchants- so people don’t run to boro park for dignified fashions (or flatbush!) we should have a fashion magazine- showing the best in makeup, dignified fashion, shaitel styles etc. in the same manner as the non-jewish fashion magazines minus the garbage. besides our own we will have non-jews flocking because THEY want to look dignified and THEY are tired of the shmutz.
LOAD OF *&^%$
Its because of people like this (the idiots running this campaign)that will make children in this community go “fry”. ill explain if you try to force a child to do something they will not do it and not want to do it but if you teach them properly and not force it upon them them they will learn. here to if you idiots try and force this crap on this community it will only make things worse OPEN YOUR EYES PEOPLE REMEMBER MRS KENEFSKY and MR WEANER TRIED THIS YEARS AGO AND GOT NOWHERE.
Steer Clear of Politics !!
Nothing like this usually has a positive ending…all “normal” ones should steer clear of this issue, I think ! ! !
one who is not in the dark ages
People, you need to get out of the dark ages
You all know me
First and foremost I have to say that this whole “BT” and name calling is completely out of line and so demeaning of those who say it. Where does BT of FFB come into this? Is it an excuse to deny that others in your circle do not think like you? Yes, it hurts when you think you are like-minded with someone and realize that you’re not. But to turn it on a fine group of individuals who came close to Lubavitch because they thought they wanted to be like you is uncalled for and counterproductive. Now they know the truth and they’re smarter and wiser. They don’t want to be like you, thank G-d. They want to do the Aibishter’s Ratzon from the heart. I come in contact with people from all walks of life each day and it doesn’t matter whether you’re BT, FFB, Ger/Giyoras – there is so much goodnesss in most individuals and unfortunately there are those like Paroah, with a hardened heart. They are bitter within and it comes through in their everyday lives. Shame on all those who throw out the term BT loosely and in a negative manner.
That said it goes against every civil liberty that we have in this country to carry out a pogrom against our shopkeepers. This is the old Russian way and has no place in our society. If someone does not want to shop somewhere, they have every freedom to take their business elsewhere. To tell others not to shop in a store because of a personal agenda is akin to the mafia. Do you mean to tell me that those that sign the petition do not shop in any secular stores? Gap? Old Navy? Shoprite? Costco? Target? Walmart (especially in the summer)? I have a really difficult time believing that the people supporting this ONLY shop in totally tznius stores. If you have such a difficult time viewing untznius matter (whether it be people or signs) and you don’t want your children exposed to it then how can you possible go to Kings Plaza or Atlantic Terminal? How can you shop in Manhattan? And if you want to tell me that all shopping is done online than even worse! I think that singling out stores that a “committee” determined do not “deserve” our business will only achieve negative results. If you’re purchasing the same items but from a goy just so you can avoid purchasing from a “non-compliant” Jew then shame on you.
I also have a really hard time understanding how the committee picked its targets. I can find many other stores within the neighborhood that do not adhere to the laws of tznius. I’m not going to mention them because I will not slander another Jew’s name. It’s obvious to community members who shop within the neighborhood that there are several other stores who could easily make the list. I have an idea. Let’s get a shredder from Office Depot and shred all the list, petitions and signatures. Get rid of it b/c that is the true shmutz.
Lastly, I’d like to point out that the supporters of this committee are so very quick to label anyone against it as “untznius”. You are definitely wrong on this one. Most of the folks I speak to are very frum, tznius people who are against this committee and its petition. Of course they want a more tznius society, we all do, but without targeting another Jew’s parnassah. Without slandering a person’s reputation. They dress, speak and behave tznius but they against having our civil liberties taken away. I’ve actually spoken to lawyers about this who unequivocally say that these people are treading a very fine line legally. If they are not careful and they tick off the wrong people too many times they may find themselves served. It’s great to jump on the bandwagon and feel like a powerful renegade but in real life we have to determine what is the most productive and positive approach.
Mendy H.
If I smell any more coffee I’ll never wake up!
It’s time also to boycott all the stores that sell mesianik stuff.
Like those sick flags and all the shlita publications. Thats as inportant as tzinus. We must rid this cancer from Crown Heights.
Enough chilul hashem Enough chilul Lubavitch.
Cha Cha
To those who say Crown Heights is stating to look like a modern orthodox community:
Why bad-mouth modern ortodox communities? The frum people there look a lot more tznius than the Chitas-toting ,miniskirt-wearing,Taliban-condemning (so-called) Lubavitcher.
confused
The community is divided in many ways- meshicist/anti, full beard/modern, tznius/not, ffb/bt. To accuse this campaign of divisiveness is silly. What does bring achdus is Torah, Chassidus, hiskashrus to the Rebbe. Promoting tznius, is promoting Torah, promoting chassidishkeit and following the directives of the Rebbe. So I am confused.
When people are not tzniusdik, THEY are creating diviseness.
As for BT’s, remember they have a strong attraction to emes, much stronger than we do, and when they take on this community, it is with that same strong emes that brought them in the first place. Think about it.
A cohen
Will this campaign cause
anybody to increase in
limud hatorah and kium
hamitzvos?
Very unlikely.
Will it cause other
(unintended)
consequences? Most
certainly. This will just
pass in a couple of weeks
and life will go on.
I hope the organizers
realize that they are
responsible for all
outcomes negative and
positive
RIGHT
i think they are right to do this campaign, you can’t make a change who is walking down the street and in what libush they walk down the street. POOR chassidim SOME Men husband are not going on kingston. One rabbi said ONLY A BLIND COULD go throught kingston av. i think its right that the stores should have the workers being tznious.
IMAGINE this rabbi or men a chassidishe goes into a store and buy merchandise what should he do. this girl not tznious in front of him he has to look at her to talk to her.
if you go throught a street you dont talk to people on the street but if you go on a street you have to talk with the person that untznious.
great job to whoever did that. and this is true in school check how THE TEACHER are dressed.
Kahan for years i was thinking he gives his worker to wear something on their clothes!!!!!!!!!!! this is the way to act
or you should have only men in store!!! AHA HAH
ari s.
i tink this campeign is pathetic,u want to put the ruels of meah sharim go live there first and then talk,you see the problom of crown height is not tznius its the lack of education,the lack of respect of others,ch has lots of issues before they can even start to think about such a pettion,too all of u who are saying good for the people who started this pettion or i will also boycot those stores i wish you good luck before you start running back beacuse in the end nobody is good enough for you,is there a problom with trying to look decent and not like you just fell out of the 1700s? try and do something good like give your kids a proper education so they can grow up and have aa skill in witch they can support them selves,make sure that you act human before you sign such a pettion ask your self if it is a selfish act since you cant keep your eyes off of woman instead you ask them to cover up untill they are dressed in bureks.too fry and happy about it,im with you all the way all the people in ch do is judge people they shouldnt be judging take care of your familys and i promise you that you will be a happier person rather then signig such a bias pettion.go ahead look it up in the gemmorah,mishneh,chassidus as to what was the cause of people judging each other and talking behind their backs.start with a better english education systim in the schools of ch we are living in 2010 a person has to have the basic skill of math and english,i think someone should start a pettion saying that they will boycot the schools untill they fix up their education.and just because someone dresses a bit difrently then you doesnt give you the right to start judging them and attempt to ruin their buisness,so to post mark please continue to sell the post,daily news and the times and to all of you good job dont let any of the taliban strong arm you.also you guys dont realise what about the pedophilers living in our midse i dont see any public outcry over that what just beacuse someone has a big beard and dresses like a “chossid” doesnt mean that they are not a risk to the kids in the community so to all of ch please take care of the real issues before jumping to something so pathetic as this.may you all have a great weekend.
A fight is a good sign
Chazak Viamatz
I dont know if the organizers of this “campaign” are still reading this…
but if they are:
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.
When i was facing strong opposition in a program i was running, someone very wise told me:
“Do you think you are greater than the Alter Rebbe?! – the Alter Rebbe fought for Chabad for the Eibeshter and received heavy opposition. What makes you think that your fight will be so smooth”
All good and truth faces roaring opposition until Moshiach is revealed. May it be now!
P.S. We are very proud of you! Thank you!
ground-hog
From what it appears, the whole “storm” is basically on this website and the average CH person is apathetic or uninterested in the whole debate.
For one thing, there has been no lack of community education of the topic of tznius. From signs on the outside of stores, to articles in N’shei. Most people who are not tzniusdik do it as a result of unhappiness with certain areas of frumkeit, and not because they don’t know better.
Demanding that schools police parents is no more effective than telling the stores to make the clerks wear long sleeves. Schools don’t want the ugliness, fights, and headaches. They don’t want the extra job of scrutinizing the parents.
As far as frum women’s magazines, there are plenty of them. Binah, Michpacha, Nachas, Mother’s Helper, N’shei Newsletter, etc. We don’t need to create new ones.
It is also interesting that people who claim that they have “fried-out” are still interested in this website.
The organizers of the tznius campaign had their hearts in the right place but they are 3 people against an entire community that has basically given up the fight to keep the community tzniusdik. At least they have raised awareness. If people see one person improving on tznius, they may decide to follow suit.
TO one who is not in the dark ages
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT REFORM JEWRY BELIEVES AND PREACHES.
RESPONSE TO: the rugachover
It is outright chutzpah and complete lack of ‘kavod’ to call yourself after the great and holy Rugachover Gaon.
ahavas yisroel???
SO many of the comments on CHinfo always contain SO much lashon hara… It’s both sad and embarassing. If anything this shows that we as a community need to work on being kind to one another before we can even try to tackle other things like tznius!
great job!
one thing i do know is that this in a step forward. WE NEED a lot more steps from EVERYONE to make CH a better place. I dont understand , since when are people not embarrassed to walk around looking like trash in Crown HEights, last night i went to a shuir, i was the only person in the room covering my knees!
Since when is halocha not important???
KEep up the good work Mendelson and the rest of you.
I would also like to congratulate the stores who are supporting the campaign. I will now make an effort to shop more at your stores.
aaa
to s mendelson iknow for a fact that ur not the main guy behind this but thanks for taking the heat
rg
annonymous:
I am very sorry that these little “pishers” are coming up to you and saying these things – you’re right, it’s inappropriate and should NOT be happening. This is not what the campaign is about!
Very simply put, many people prefer to shop in stores where they feel comfortable. Meaning: if I can see your cleavage and “covered” hair, I am not interested in returning.
Very simply put, we are asking that stores make policies that make EVERYONE feel comfortable shopping there (what’s wrong with a dress code? I have one for my job!)
I dont understand how it could make someone who does not cover her knees uncomfortable to walk into a store where the staff do?
What we (the consumers and supports) are saying, if we don’t feel comfortable to shop here, we wont. And there are 500 other families that agree. If that doesn’t make them think twice, that’s their issue, not ours. I have unfortunately been going out of my way for a long time now to be comfortable in my own community. I would love to give my business to ALL the stores on kingston, but if they don’t care about me and the community enough to keep it’s standards, I’m not interested. It shouldn’t be that way for me and it shouldn’t be that way for you (regarding the kids coming up to you, v’chulu)
I also have Midos Tovos, I also have respect for people, and I also have the decency to not judge other people. So do these guys. They are helping the rest of us make a statement that WE DO CARE, finally, someone has stopped talking and started DOING. Ha maase hu ha ikar
supporter
You all know me:
I’m sorry, I don’t know who you are. To answer your note re: boycotting costco, etc. This is about strengthening our community.
To Ari S
Your post is proof in point that we need a better education system.
Your spelling is atrocious, your grammar quite shocking and your punctuation nonexistent.
hav hope
i wonder if this is the most commented on a story ever on this site, thats alot of comments ,this is a very sided arguement i agree that the one screening all the comments should not let the ones about the rabbonim through,although you say on bottom its not an official chabad website.only time will tell what the outcome of this thing will be.if many people care and oppose the immodesty it will go if not it will stay.but please people dont give any one person so much power no one man or woman can dictate a situation thats alive today
a little ahavas yisrael
When you wear dignified clothing you are a person with self respect and true ideals.
The problem is that our children have to be taught YIRAS SHOMAYIM and RESPECT FOR THEIR HOLY BODIES!!!!!!!!
There would not be a tznius problem if children and adults would LOVE yiddishkeit and Halacha.
So let’s start with AHAVAS YISRAEL and tell everyone that it is not Ahavas Yisrael to parade in Crown Heights dressed un-halachedik.
Chanita
bs’d I’m all for it, however, you must all realize, that rejecting your “imperfect” ones, and shunning them out, is what makes them more rebellious. I’ve also been shunned by people who look at you funny, and I am a very tznius person. You have to learn acceptance and tolerance, and only THEN can you influence others to emulate what you think is right. Invite the “rebels” into your home for Shabbos, give them wine and good food, love them regardless, and then you will see an amazing transformation. We are living in different times, and we can only teach by example, so before you criticize the tznius of others, look at your own ahavas Yisroel, eh-hem.
Wanna_be_Good
I’m a chasidishe driver that delivers weekly to CH. The immodesty that I see in CH is worse than any other frum community I visit including Flatbush and Queens. I have a very difficult time keeping my eyes pure while in CH. By improving your Tznius you will surely help all the helpless men reach the Yiras Shomaim that they are so desperately seeking. Thank You