Major Posek to R. Osdoba: “Don’t Bend to Pressure”
Rabbi Menachem Mendel Shafran, one of Israel’s leading poskim, writes that it’s forbidden for Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba to sit with Rabbi Yosef Braun, due to pressure, and community members should not be asking Braun questions in Isurim and Heterim until issues are clarified.
Rabbi Shafran, a member of the Beis Din of Bnei Brak, is one of the leading poskim in Israel today, and is one of the foremost authorities in Choshen Mishpat. He has been consulted numerous times by various parties, including by Zaki Tamir, on behalf of the Vaad Hakohel, in connection with the election of new Rav in Crown Heights
Below are excerpts and key points from the letter.
Monday, 8th of Av, 5771
Rav Avrohom Osdoba:
A.
1. I’d like to preface, I’m responding to the issues based on the details that you have given me.
2. Regarding the newly elected Rav, who – in your opinion and the opinion of many community elders and leaders – is not qualified to serve as a Rav. His ineligibility is due not only to his ignorance of practical Halacha ( that is to say, experience and practical training) in laws of Issur v’Heter, monetary laws and Even Haezer, but more so due to his character (as reported by some of his teachers who raised him).
3. Even more so, [Rabbi Braun’s qualifications are called into question due to] the suspicious nature of his smicha from his father. Beyond the serious suspicion of forgery , the [sordid] details behind its public ripping (itself a chilul hashem), raise further questions:
a. Was this event staged?
b. Who conspired to arrange this event?
c. Was [Braun] involved?
d. Is this event an indication of his overall personality that he isn’t fit to be a Rav or as community leader, or was this a one-time affair? [(These questions are of the utmost importance, as) the Chasam Sofer is very strict on investigating the installation of a Rav by unscrupulous means].B.
I wrote to you some six months ago that you are not “obligated” to sit on a beis din with [Braun] nor take part in any other matters of the rabbinate, so long as you have reasons to doubt his legitimacy (as mentioned above).
Now, however, that you are being intimidated by threatening your salary,
1. Not only are you not obligated to cooperate with him by giving into this preasure, but rather you are forbidden to participate with him, as by doing so you are legitimizing him as a valid rabbinic authority.
2. It is forbidden for the [Vaad Hakohel] to withhold payment from you in an attempt to coerce you to take actions you find objectionable. (It is interesting that the Vaad Hakohel found it necessary to ask me if they should pay the new Rav based on his election, but didn’t ask me if they can withhold the salaries of Rabbonim already serving.)
There is a Biblical prohibition in appointing a Rav who is not fit – be he lacking knowledge or unseemly in deed ( even if he has many other admirable qualities) [This based on the SM”E – according to the Maharam Schik it violates two prohibitions.] As well, those who assist this new Rav are equally culpable. Using pressure to appoint a rav is further prohibited, to the point that it may even be in the category of Yehoreig V’Al Yaavor!).
C.
One should not rely on [Braun] as a Rav until it’s clear:
1. That he is actually qualified to pasken in Isur & Heter.
2. That he is actually qualified to sit on Din Torah’s.
3. That he is qualified to preside over a Get.Until then, however no one should ask him Shaalos in Isur & Heter under any circumstances.
Rabbi Menachem Mendel Shafran
Who gives a bruen?
Who gives a bruen?
he is not judging
all he is saying is lets clear it up before we go further.
rabbi braun fan
i must say i agree with this. i voted for rabbi braun but why is he hiding. i am losing respect for him. let him sit down and clear his name
Who is this other rov?
Who is he? Why are outside people being brought in? How can he judge and make accusations about the new rav without knowing him?
His whole tone is so one sided and slanted that I have to wonder what his angle is.
Please explain
Why can’t he just travel to a bunch of Rabonim including the above Rav and get tested?
(people questioned the alter rebbe and tested him as well with brochos etc.)
be clear
lets be clear be4 we all know whats going on in C’H you cant have bullying and tell every one TO BAD. so R.O must stay strong and not fall
Cue the attacks on Rabbi Shafran!
There have been some major “veltisher” poskim who are saying that this whole case needs to be reviewed, are we going to just ignore them because they are not Chabad?
Until a new independent Beis Din made up of respectable Rabbonim give the OK, I will never accept Braun as a Rov, and anyone doing Gittin by him better be careful as their get may not be valid. The consequences of that could be terrible, Mamzarim and Sheilous of aishas ish etc…
Declasse Intellectual
This whole affair and mess reminds everyone of a television soap opera. The damage that has been done to the respectability and authority of the rabbinacal court can never be reversed–it has made them a mockery. It is time to have a new Beth Din with new certified and non-involved Rabbonim even if they are not Chbadniks but have unimpeachable credentials and training with their experience.and those who were on the board be compensaated fro loss of parnosa. Rabbi Braun should be given a one way ticket to his former home. And those who created this mess as the community leaders should be impeached. It has gone to far to be reversed and all these going ons is a shandra and a Chulel HaShem because right know you have a Beth Din that is not valid and no one could expect to observe the rulings. And because of this people will go elsewhere.
Zevele HaCohen
read what this Rabbi from Israel writes:
“I’m responding to the issues based on the details that you have given me”.
so this whole thing is one sided.
he did not listen to both sides!
disgusted
this is pathetic. the entire kovod of rabanus and torah are being bashmeard by this on going dispute.enough already!
Wow
Psheetah, mayee komashmah lan, eloh lhovy es kol hamishugoim and idioten (and all the other low level cron haits residents)so therefor tzorich to spell it out.
Toida Rabah.
Rabbi Osdoba must get paid
Just as Rosenberg was accepted by Schwei(who I have my doubts if he is qualified) so too this Rov must be accepted by everyone. There is a cloud of doubt hanging over Rabbi Braun which he MUST clear up before we can move forward.
For the Vaad to hold up rabbi Osdoba’s salary is disgusting and they have no right to do so. The three were not elected to be G-d but to try to help the community. No one should pay any maas Hakohol to Rabbi Osdoba gets paid in full. If the vaad has no money let them collect it .
achdus or machloikes
They lost and they run to other Rabbonim that hear only one side and give opinions. Any Rov that does that is not an honest person. The “even haboichen” is what comes out from his involvement and mixing in a case that he was not part of it achdus or machloikes? He may be a big posek but a dayan has to be a pikach and sense things especially when he is being ‘used’ by a tzad.
It-s Not Nogeah
As of now Rabbi Schwei Office says that they don’t have a Bes Din so they are not taking Din Torahs. However Rabbi Osdoba is. So there is no concern that something terrible can come from Braun. His people are just busy that he get Kovod and recognition and for the time being this satiates their need. Well clearly he Has gotten the endorsement of Rabbi Sam Chanin who has a very colorful religious history and lots of interesting shimush since his days as a bochur in OT.
So tired of all this!!!!
WHO CARES WHAT SHAFRAN SAID???!!! Stop looking for all kinds of rabanim to be matir the sheretz! Yes the sheretz. Rabbi Ozdoba is only adding machlokes in this community!! Enough is enough!! Lett him join shafran in Eretz Isroel and leave us in peace!!! ENOUGH!!!!
Laaniyas Dayti
To #3.
Zaki was the first to consult him, and did so in a manner that R.Shaffran is “ticked off” at him.
But then Zaki has a letter form another Rov who said that he (and his Vaad HKL) do not need to listen to the Krause Beis din.
BUT IF you read that Rov’s letter word for word, he makes it clear that he is speaking on the issue based on what he is told. He then proceed to say he was told that everyone in the shcunah signed the Zabla… and other fabrications etc.
So please, do not try to have it both ways. Zaki has proven to be the biggest loser in all this (reputation loser), for open and hidden manipulation of facts.
What is news to me: That R.Shaffran is basing his opinion on additional information not heard before: The voice of the Rebbeim and Mashpiyim who claim Braun is not a personality qualified to be a Rov in this context. It was public knowledge before this letter, that Braun, as a bochur in OT, had younger kids he used to lead (no attempt to raise red flags on this alone) and that he took them to Manhattan once (at least) coming back to tell someone in the hanhalah (when asked) that he took them to a makom nisayon (!!!???) and he wasn’t nichshol (apparently one of the younger ones was.) It is amazing that this story (it was posted publicly and not denied or withdrawn) How amazing that it did not ring alarm bells in the ears of professionals (and klugeh chassidim).
What would parents say in this day and age, if this occurred to their kids?
shame
Crown Heights: Is this the way you would like to continue to raise the next generation? And you ask yourselves WHY are our children moving so far from derech hatorah umitzvos?
LISTEN TO YOURSELVES
No kovud for the Rabonim=No Kovud Hatorah
Peltzer Tzadik
To #20 Shame
So who do you propose should give in?
Hirschel Pekkar
BH. Rabbi Shaffran, before a rov makes a decision, does he not have to hear BOTH sides, preferably, to have both litigants standing before him together? Was Rabbi Braun ever put into a seruv, so that the congregation could not add him to a minyan?
Just asking.
To # 8
To # 8 who wrote “This whole affair and mess reminds everyone of a television soap opera”
Actually it’s more like “Professional” Wrestling, especially when the Smeicha was wripped up.
$$$$$$$
how much $$$$$$$$ did this shafran guy get paid? is he cheap or expensive?and he calls himself a rov??????
Rav Osdoba Chazak!
Rav Osdoba is a true Rav, one elected on the Rebbe’s watch and whom truly has BS”D.
yossel
dont you all think it would be fair for rabbi? braun to take a smicha test and run a new election its the only way this will work i voted for a guy that i smicha was sure had i would never never vote if i had a chshash that the man had no smicha
and #2 a rov that cares for the comunity would step a way from this machlokis and then he would truly be worth of rov
A DISAPPOINTED CHASID!
Why is the issue so difficult? the real answer is the Hatred of Rav Osdoba & any Rov or Posek who PASKENS AL PI HALACHA & COMMON SENSE.As Rav Schafran does. Why the hatred of Osdoba? because he won’t bend or be Moichel his Kavod or tailor his psak to what some want. Teh fact is Ad hayom Hazeh Mr. Braun is still playing games. that alone disqualifies him! can anyone of you haters think straight for a minute & ask yourself why play these games? what has he got to hide? Is this a person you really want to give a psak on a serious matter?. If such a person Lehavdil was your doctor or wanted to be or your lawyer etc. & either fudged his qualifications or didn’t have the license or training would you use or trust such a person?? It seems that Rosenberg was & is blinded r“l by all the money he got from our community. Why is he silent etc? Even if he saw the originals Isn’t it a simple matter? why isn’t he pushing Mr. Braun & why didn’t he all this time to resolve the issue show R’ Osdoba & prove his qualifications? It seems the answer is forgery & rosenberg is worried about having to give back all that Money he got! At least 2 of the Rabbonim from the Zabla are saying this is a problem. As for din torah’s there are at least 2 other Rabbonim that are qualified & do sit on Din Torah’s & are allowed to by the Zabla Bais Din etc.Additionally you Still Have Rav Bogomilsky who is also a Rov that has Paskened Shaalos for Many years & can be hired to sit on a Bais Din. he is just not a membere of teh official Ch Bais din but is qualified to sit on a din Torah as is R’ Mangel R’ Heller As for # 4 & 15 It is clear where they hold including their hatred they are part of the major problem in our schuna & 317 is right one there is no better way to say it 7 unfortunately R”l it had to be said
nuchis der amerikaner
just a short while ago this same Rabbi shafran wrote a letter in defence of Rabbi Schwei and Rabbi Braun!
and, even in this letter Rabbi Shafran writes to Rabbi Ozdoba: “I’m responding to the issues based on the details that you have given me”.
efrayim
Everyone knows Rabbi Osdoba himself paskans without hearing both sides. So why should he care?
miv
its so odd to read loshon hara on a chabad website.
somehow its just downright disturbing.
Then again, the reports of who is right, wrong, and otherwise is also disturbing.
this is just awful for our youth. Its sort of like silly to show our kids that we fight, that we act emotionally with public issues, etc. There has to be some better way, I can’t believe that this would happen if the Rebbe was sitting in 770, and I can’t believe that people can DO THEIR CHITAS and learn CHASSIDUS and TORAH and act out in such childish ways.
AZEH HU GIBOR: HA KOVESH ES YITZRO.
Please, please, lets leave a community for our children.
27
lol
Kluger
Technically it is assur for a Dayan to listen to arguments regarding a din Torah, without the defense present. He words therefore, by his own admission, have no halachic standing, and he speaks not as a Rov but as a simple person. Should he insist that this was a Halachic pesak, then he was oiver in a “Lo Saseh”, and is disqualifying himself as a Dayan.
hypocrecy
Simply you can’t pick and choose pieces of the psak. if you signed and were mekabel kinyan that you will listen to the psak you have to listen and you can’t say “I don’t have to listen to the psak but you, have no right to not listen and you must pay me because that is what the psak calls for”. On the other hand if you don’t listen to the psak your position becomes questionable like it was before the psak where each side claimed the other should be removed from his position. So I don’t think there is any obligation to pay anyone that doesn’t accept the psak.
Please clarify.
Please help me understand the full picture with Rabbi Shafran:
First, there is a letter (dated 15 adar2 5771) addressed to the Rabbonim stating that the Psak of the Zabl”o must be adhered to without reservation (and chastised the naysayers).
There is a letter from the same time period addressed to Zaki Tamir stating the same.
Then there is this new letter (8 Av 5771) stating: although I don’t know the facts of the matter, and I have only herd from one side of the dispute….. and then goes on to write the exact opposite of the first 2 letters…
Has this Rabbi ever investigated this issue? Has anyone appointed him to rule on this matter? Can he even make up his mind???
Please clarify.
To: #23. Yossel
I would find it very interesting to have a public matchup in Halacha between Rabbi’s Osdobo, Segal and Braun.
I don’t think Rabbi Broun would be afraid to take on the challenge. You think he will – bring it on and challenge him!
Delph
One has to understand how to read before getting worked up this letter, either for or against either side. This letter has no great practical impact that a basic knowledge of halacha doesn’t already give you, and the R. Osdoba must have know the answer before writing:
Rabbi Shafran prefaces his answer by stipulating that “I’m responding to the issues based on the details that you have given me.” In that, he takes the debate OUT of the realm of a Psak Din about R. Braun, and renders it a learned response to a hypothesis.
Secondly, Rabbi Shafran’s statements about the issur of sitting on a Beis Din together with someone who isn’t quiet ‘kosher’ is known (or should be) to every yeshiva student. And it’s an equal opportunity law. If R. Osdoba thinks R. Braun is a bad person, he MUST not sit with him, but the reverse is also true. There’s nothing new about this rule, and R. OSdoba really didn’t need to ask such a simple question.
Now if it’s just a matter of the appointee not being learned enough, and the matter of the right to withhold wages – Rabbi Shafran can clearly not give a pask din until he knows all the intricacies of the case. In this situation, the complaints and counter-complaints have accumulated and compounded. Which is why Rabbi Shafran gave the preface that he did – he is clarifying ‘daas torah’ based ONLY the the facts as provided by R. Osdoba.
It could be asked why R. Shafran did not disclaim an opinion on the whole issue, explaining that he does not have all the details. That is unfortunately not uncommon amongst. Note that Rabbi Shafran has now disqualified himself from ever adjudicating this matter – since he seems to have, even if hypothetically, accepted one understanding of the facts.
So this letter, and the shturem that accompanies it, means absolutely nothing. In all seriousness, it may as well not have been written.
Change we can count on!
New Beis Din:
Sam Chanin
Zakaki Tamir
Paul Heubner
Setton substitutes in the event one of the above is incapacitated or incarcerated at any time.
Zalman der Shikker becomes mazkir of the Beis Din
Is this what Rabbonim have been reduced
A rov, siting thousands of miles away, probably never visited the neighborhood, spoke to only one side of a dispute, yet feels obligated to write a scathing letter against another Rov?
Is this justice? Is this honesty? Is this HUMANE?
(this is doubly bewildering, since these very issues have already been judged by a 5 Rov Zabl”o!)
your former voter
Dear Zaki Tamir.
The tzadik Sam Chanin wrote a public letter demanding very stronlgly (with lots of chutzpa) numerous things of Rav Ozdoba…. He has the balls to do it ONLY bc you Faki Tamir put him in charge.
In general, putting Sam Chanin in charge of the JCC is a real disgrace for the community…no one gave you the mandate to give over the CHJCC in the hands of a ceature who is Mechalel Shabbos and Ochel treifos etc befarhessiya… you are bringing embaressement and shame and the entire comunity…had I (or the majority of your voters) known that you’ll do that, no one would ever voted you in ….this is called CHEATING EVERYONE or a CROOK.
CHLEAKS.COM- The Bottom Line!
The bottom line for those who brought Braun to Crown Heights (mainly the people behind the CHJCC, Mendel Hendel, Yankle Spritzer and the rest of the mossrim gang), it’s all about the money.
The Mossrim created this whole issue to be a distraction to the community. Meanwhile they go every Friday and cash their checks. The source of these checks are from millions meant for the needy of the community.
Bellow you will find the amount the CHJCC received from Government grants/Tax payers dollars from 2006-2010.
You must ask yourselves, where is these numbers are you?
If your not part of the bottom line (this corrupt flow of cash), then your just a sucker chasing sticks (like a dog).
Crown Heights Jewish Community Council, Inc. –
Last Five Years Contract With New York State
Weatherization Pogrom (WAP)
2006: $836,276
2007: $616,450
2008: $675,450
2009: $1,126,139
2009: (Arra) $4,968,935
2010: $804,243
TOTAL: $9,027,493
Division of Housing & Community Renewal (DHCR)
2006: $65,000
2007: $65,000
2008: $87,000
2009: $82,000
2010: $70,887
TOTAL: $369,887
Project Care/DHCR
2006: $62,500
2007: $63,000
2008: $64,000
2009: $64,000
2010: $64,000
TOTAL: $317,500
Office of Children and Family Services (OCFS)/ Family Preservation
2006: $79,900
2006: $12,500
2007: $81,000
2007: $10,500
2007: $15,000
2008: $82,000
2008: $7,000
2009: $82,000
2009: $10,000
2010: $20,000
2010: $10,000
2010: $82,000
TOTAL: $491,900
Office of Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Services/Prevention
2006: $228,516
2007: $234,667
2008: $240,319
2009: $228,009
2010: $219,933
TOTAL: $1,151,444
Crime Victim Board (CVB)
2006: $142,951
2007: $142,951
2008: $142,951
2009: $142,951
2010: $138,808
TOTAL: $710,612
Nutrition Consortium
2006: $50,004
2007: $50,421
TOTAL: $100,425
Department Of Health
2006: $2,500
2007: $25,000
TOTAL: $27,500
Department of Labor
2009: $15,000
TOTAL: $15,000
Notice:
1) Fiscal year 2011-2012 was not yet included.
2)There are much more funds form various different Gov. Programs which are not listed above. There are Federal and City contracts as-well. What was listed above is state. The grand total would be much more.
Imaging the millions from years before 2006.
BOTTOM LINE…WHERE ARE YOU IN ALL THIS?
RMY L
There was a rabbi who suffered a hearing loss.
The question was that torah said:
Do not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise.
And perverts the words of the righteous.
The answer is that rabbi never manage to get the bribe
And never saw it with his eyes.
There was only a promise he heard with his Ears.
Poor Zaki Tamir
He never managed to get the funds together so now the rabbi switched sides?
Crown heightser
To #4I see rats in my house and I call out side help
Hwye Knott
Dear 32,
This is exactly what the Rosenberg Psac Din calls for, for Rabbis Osdoba, Schwei, and Braun to go behind closed doors, argue out the halacha, and come forth with a consensus or majority opinion of the Beis Din of Crown Heights. What’s stopping them?
Nudnik
Its very clear and obvioud that some of the people writing here (against Shaffran & Osdoba) are very misinfformed. The mixed p this Rabbi with that; they dont know Zaki callled Shaffran first, etc etc. Its all in the emotion and the head doesnt even follow. This is Chabad today?
Now a question: Why was Braun sent tio learn in Lubavitch to begin with? Williamsburgh considers us shkootzim. Was he moving off the derech? Or was he an wild nuisance of a kid who was kicked out of the mosdos there? It dosent add up at all.
Are they saying in Williamsburgh “Our rejects are their leaders?” I thought only Lubavitch was allowed to say that?
Yes. Braun can learn. OK we can believe that. But is that all there is in a chassidisher appointment for a rov? Especially Chabad. Especially in the Rebbe’s castle.
Adviser
So now Braun needs to have a letter from a prominent Rov. A letter which tells him to ignore the hazmonos ledin. A letter which tells him That he should just sit it out until those who have questions just get exhausted.
would you ask a shaila?
Would you go ask a rov who admits to writing scathing letters with only half (or a quarter) of the “facts” – “facts” that he heard from the arch enemy of this person?
Would anyone in their right mind go to this rov and ask ANY question?
The Nudnik
So now the screaming is getting very loud.
Shaffran’s letter has shaken the Bruan supporters. Hysterical. Not funny. Just yelling hysterically. Hatzallah needs to be on standby. These people are at breakdown point
Equal treatment
Did Rabbi Osdobo ever have to defend his reputation from the scathing letter from Rabbi Z.S.D.? did you have to prove his legitimacy? Why is he demanding this now?
Nobody
I guess you can learn a lot about Rabbi shopping from the big members of the community.
So, if you have a pot that might be trief and can’t be kashered, just ask a Rov what the din is if the pot was different and if the trief that went into it was Kosher, and he can answer you “according to what you write it is Kosher.”
Wanda Ring
A Psac Din is a Psac Din. Why won’t Osdoba obey it?
Sholom Dovber
Unfortunately it is no longer relevant if all or any of the Rabbonim are qualified to hold the position of Dayan on the CHBD.
The institution has been totaly undermined in its present form.
Only the resignation of all incumbents and a fresh election process will resolve the present dilemma.
An independent recognized electoral commission needs to be utilized to carry out the process; the results need to be signed off by all members of such a commission at a public forum open to all eligible Crown Heights residents.
All finances related to the process should be made public prior to anything being undertaken.
Sale!!! But a psak for $10 during Av
How could Rabbi Shafran hear one side only without the other side being present. He has thus disqualified himself from this case. Also once the Zabla Bais din has issued a Psak it if final. Osdaba seems to think that since he is Abir Shebabbirim he can go rabbi hunting all day until he gets his way. Well it all over. I also agree with # 46. It reminds me of the person with a toothache who was afraid of drilling, so he showed the dentist the wrong tooth and the dentist said don’t worry everything is fine.
Who Seed Watt
To #44 (The Nudnik),
Put your clothes back on, and go back to playing basketball in MSG!
Forever a Nudnik
Thanks for making my point stronger.\
You (all) have nothing logical or even intellegent to say. Just smears, screams, and ridiculing.
I understand you. It is a chellenge to face straight and consistent points when you have pulled off a crooked deal. You can’t even come to the table to talk about it because what will you7 say and answer all the questions being asked.
BTW – never (ever) played basketball, and havent the least idea what MSG stands for (except monosodium glutamate.)
moishe
this is all a bunch of bs and the biggest chillul hashaem dump all these rabbis start from scratch with new rabbanim
Who Seed Watt
Madison Square Garden. Lighten up. It was a joke. “Nudnik” … “nude Knick”, as in the New York Knickobockers, a professional basketball team. Some people take offense at anything. Sorry!
Nudnik forever
No offense at what you said.
Exceptional offense to where your head is at (to read the rorshark test, and yet to assume that another CHT’s resident also has him mind deep in the doo-doo.)
But what is difficult to understand is: What do you and your kind think gives them the power (or even the right) to speak on Rabbonishe matters.
Who Seed Watt
I’m glad to see there’s at least one CHT’s resident mind reader (you) left in this world!!
Puleeze!
This situation makes me so sad. I don’t think there is a person in this community, other than maybe a few involved IN the situation, that isn’t feeling disheartened, and/or aggravated, and/or skeptical, and/or betrayed, etc., etc. If said rabbis were not involved in this mess, what would they think? How would they suggest it was worked out. Would they have a solution or a suggestion? I think THEY need a good example of how rabbis are suppose to act. Is there anyone brave enough to speak or write to them? Either they have forgotten….or they never really knew.
A Professional Analyst
TO #56 and all those who wonder or cringe or criticize what is going on, and how could this happen.
It is very simple. All you need are the following ingredients:
1) a resident (or a few) who have money and would like a little control.
2) “Unemployed” residents who turn up at 770 @ 11:00 am+ every day to daven-shmooze-stir.
3) One rabbi who has a “shifty” look (and many take it as the essence.)
4) Another rabbi who is a follower (and does as he is told – by the money and power).
5) An original and powerful group of families who were audacious enough to survive Stalin Ymsh Russia; This took personalities of thick skin, stubbornness laced heavily with Vodka, and feif-dir-on spirit. Hardly a recipe for the peaceful backdrops of the Western world.
6) The children and grandchildren of these families of genetic superiority (aka “gezha”, meaning genetic offspring of the superior breed). Many of these offspring are off the track already, but their arrogance and claim to a superior place in Lubavitch is untarnished. Exhibit A: Sam Chanin.
7) A few mashpiyim of the fundamentalist style. Humorless (can a chasid really be humorless?) well meaning dogma spouters (some are very elegant and-or gentle, but blinkered nonetheless.) One can anticipate that in time one such personality will “grow” to the extreme end of such personality, and claim some sort of superior knowledge and- or prophecy.
8) An ample supply of followers (of the “blind” species) who are particularly vulnerable to the proclamations of the fundamentalists. (Women in particular are prone to this, as are baalai tshuva, in their well meaning seriousness and desire to believe and do the exact correct thing.)
Take a leffel and stir the pot. (No shortage of koch-lefffels.)
from another city
please sit back and seriousky think this over.
any yorai shomayim knows what it is brought down in chassidus that va“hava’y imoi shehalocho kmoisoi” i,e, that to pasken a din right one must have-besides real knowledge of halocho- “siato dishmayo” a special help fron the all-mighty.
by chasidim a chosid has ingrained in his beleif that a word from the rebbe who shchino medaberes mitoich groinoi is as if coming to us as a message from the all mighty himself.
when we have -sadly- only one rov left about whom the rebbe spoke about in the highest and strongest words, and that we must rely on his psak etc. until moshiach, wouldn’wt it be normal for a chosid to grasp onto and hold dear the only rov that has this unlimited “smicho” from the rebbe.
as such i wonder how come it is mostly those who are screaming that the rebbe is phisically alive with all the greatest level of kedusha- are the exact same people who are mevaze the rebbes approved rov. i can’t see any explanation for such behaveyor only that they beleive the rebbes words are not everlasting. he could of ch“v have made a mistake etc, they decide what the rebbe really meant and when must one learn into his words things that he never said,etc. etc. this detroys their whole premise for mivtza moshiach as they are porgondizing it!!!
i can understand that one may want additional rabonim etc. but i cannot see any any logical or chasidishe justification for being mevaze this rov.
any other rov- with the biggest torah knowledge and the best midois toivois will not and cannot have this added on to their credentials.
wouldn’t you want to know that your child is a kosher child, wouldn’t you want to know that this shaalo is realy kosher and you are not chayuv kores ra”l because a rov- who for some reason was makel for you … ra”l. the only answer you can ever give in the bais din shel malo will be that you relied on the rov who the rebbe himself told you to accept his psak din.
please think this over again again and behave like a chosid should.
anyone with a little brains can answer all these shmutz being spread on this site. i am not going into this debate here- just telling all please hold on dearly and with respect the only rov about whom the rebbe spoke so highly about- and in public!!!!