Posted to Communal Matters on

Zablo Beis Din Rules that Allegations of Forgery May Be Brought Before a New Beis Din

Three members of the Zablo Beis Din have ruled that new arguments not previously addressed in the existing Psak may be brought before a new Beis Din.

As such, the allegations of forgery in Rabbi Braun’s smicha may be brought to the Kraus Beis Din.

Despite Rabbi Rosenberg’s resignation, the authority of the Zablo Beis Din remains.

Additionally the rabbis noted that Rabbi Osdoba was given the option to appeal to the Zablo Beis Bin. Rabbi Osdoba’s appeal and other challenges to Rabbi Braun’s legitimacy were sent to the Zablo. The Zablo has not yet given a final ruling on the issue.

The majority of the zabla also clearly ruled that even though Rabbi Rosenberg himself noted some personal thoughts regarding the allegation of forgery it has no binding authority of Psak.

Noticeably missing from the Psak was Rabbi Hecht’s signature. Rabbi Hecht was chosen as one of the rabbonim on the zablo to represent Rabbi Schwei.

The following is a translation of the letter which was posted on the Tamir Watch blog:

1. According to was stipulated on the shtar borrerus, that even if one or two dayonim remove themselves, the zabl“o is still able to pasken, and clearly the zabl”o is still in its full authority.

2. Also, authority is with the zabl“o to make judgements, even after the psak din, regarding conflicts that arise regarding the implementation of the psak and regarding any complaints about the psak.

3. The zabl”o (while still in its original membership) offered Horav Avrohom Osdoba shlita the opportunity to submit his complaints and appeals, and guaranteed that they would be considered. This indeed happened.

4. In fact, we are still obligated to consider many of these things. The Av Beis Din, in his resignation, wrote that if the zabl“o would appropriately convene, then he would reconsider his resignation. This implies that there is, in fact, what to consider.

Because of this, we are notifying both sides that there are two options:
1. To continue proceedings before us, and if we can render a majority opinion then so much the better;
2. To take the proceedings to another Beis Din that will be agreed upon by both sides.

If, for whatever reason, they are not able to exercise the first option, each side will have the right to go to another Beis Din with their claims, and that Beis Din should be regarded as all batei din in Israel, and according to the accepted principals.

It is clear and obvious that if they go to another Beis Din that they may judge only new proceedings and claims, that were not already judged and decided by the zabl”o.

The judgements that were already judged and decided are the two piskei dinim that were written with the consent of the entire zabl”o (even if it might be a majority decision). The first being that of 30 Nissan, 5770 and the second being that of 27 Teves, 5771.

Regarding all other claims, there have been a variety of opinions written by individual rabbonim , obviously they do not have authority of a psak.

Related Articles

25 Comments

  • Jack

    This letter says expressly that another bes din may NOT rule on the forgery. Rabbi Kuperman says that another bes din may rule only on issues not decided in the psak din, and in that psak din, which he implicitly acknowledges was written on behalf of the entire bes din, the ruling was that Braun’s smicha is acceptable and not forged.

    In other words, there is no appeal to another bes din on the issue of validity of the smicha, only on various issues regarding the execution of the previous psakim.

  • Beis Din

    Notice, that in this letter they are clearly stating that the Psak Din dated 27 Teves, 5771 which was signed by Rabbi Rosernberg “besheim habeis din” – and this was challenged by Rabbi Y. Kahn and Rabbi Osdobo said he will not accept it because it has only 1 signature – here they clearly state that it it the Psak Din of the ENTIRE Beis Din!

    In that Psak it clearly states that Rabbi Baun is the Rov! This fact cannot be challenged in another Beis Din, as they write – above – that if they go to another Beis Din, they can only deal with issues which were NOT paskend by the Zabl”o!

  • CHT

    Wrong, it cannot go to Rabbi Kraus. It can only go to mutually agreed Beis Din, read carefully.

  • tired of seeing eshugaas in Lubavich

    Crown Heights is a circus…is this the way Lubavichers are waiting for Moshiach?

  • anti conspiracy theorist

    where are those Conspiracy theorist that said Rabbi Rosenburg Paskend on his own?
    here they clearly say that THEY ALL paskend that they ACCEPT RABBI BROINS SMICHA!

  • Rozzenberg

    Thank you chavrei hazabla, for taking swift action.

    As I wrote before, Rabbi Gruber is a smart Dayan. He took Zaki’s (CHJCC ?) check and answered the question.

    He answered in such a way, the the moment anyone on the zabla would support what I wrote to Zaki before I resigned, then his (Gruber’s) letter would be worth less than 50% of the cost of the paper it was written on. That has now happened.

    (Smart Kollel yungeleit should keep a copy of it. It is a classic answer that is bulletproof. He inserted all the misinformation right into the letter, so that the minute even one thing was found to be a lie or whatever, then the whole psak is useless. Not the check.)

  • The Chocolate Rov

    Now the Broin on the face of Zaki, is worth more than the paper of Gruber’s psak.

  • Chaim M.

    Where did you get your headline from??

    1. An outside beis din cannot step in as long as the parties are talking with the Zablo.

    2. an outside beis din cannot consider arguments already paskend by the zablo beis din!

  • Inaccuracy

    You write that, “As such, the allegations of forgery in Rabbi Braun’s smicha may be brought to the Kraus Beis Din.”

    This is clearly not the case, as it is written in the letter that the Beis Din has to be agreed upon by both sides.

  • zelig

    The Gruber psak states that no other parties can take the same issues to another beis din (to re-try the same issues).

    The zablo rabbonim stated that if Rabbi Osdobo’s side still has more taanos, THEY can bring it to the zabl”o, if the Zabl”o cannot deal with it, the, at that point, he will be able to try to put together a new zabl”o to deal ONLY with the issues NOT dealt with by the current zablo.

    If I’m not mistaken, the current Zabl”o paskend that the Semichos are valid and that Harav Braun is the current 3rd rov of our shcuna.

    unless this zabl”o or another zabl”o comes out with a new psak din, these are the facts of life.

  • Ben CH

    The issue u bring up “the allegations of forgery in Rabbi Braun’s smicha” is NOT in the letter above if u read it. This is your writer’s suggestion. CH.info again is trying to set the agenda for the community and continuing in needless Machlokes.

  • got rid of guilt

    could u stop writing about all this dreck realy its making me go away from yidishkait i swear i stop feeling guilty for any sin,

  • Look! A Distraction!

    Crown Heights! Stop being dogs chasing after bones!

    He is a Rov, He isn’t a Rov. He has Smicha, He doesn’t Have Smicha.

    How does it make any deference for any of us bottom line? Was there a Purim Seuda this year? How many people did the CHJCC help in the last ten mounts?

    We are so busy with Zaki’s and Co. non-sense. Instead of doing what he was elected to do, and that is to HELP OUT THE RESIDENTS of Crown Heights literally, Zaki’s buddied up with the same people we threw out in the last election. Zaki’s is continuing their steak of Machlokes. Finding distractions instead of doing what needs to be done.
    Not Osdobo, Schwie and or Bruan make any difference to any-body’s bottom line. They cant help anybody financially. They cant get food on your table or the table of those who need it. They cant find the unemployed a job. They cant help anybody with any legal or law matters. ALL they can do is collect a pay check.

    People its time to start directing the criticisms on ones that need to get it, That is Zaki Tamir and his crew. Take your heads out of the sand or stop rolling in the mud. Zaki Tamir and his friends are enjoying accumulative grants of up to TEN million dollars a year.

    You have broken windows at home? need to winterize your house? The Community Council Gets money for that. Your family or a neighbors is in distress about to fall apart? The Community Council gets money for that. Have a son or know a teen whose on drugs or alcohol and needs desperate help? The Community Council gets money for that. Cant find a job; need job training? Cant pay rent and need help? Became a victim and need emotional help? You guessed it, the Community Council gets money for that.

    The individuals who have been raving up the Machlokes all these years, and been telling you look over there, it’s Rubashkin, Shomrim, and Fisher. They tell you can’t eat this Hechsher or go to that Purim Seuda. Its this guy who stole it’s that guy whose making trouble. They find every distraction possible. They are the ones “Fighting for the Community” and fighting for “Achdus”. They tell you to look everywhere but at them.
    Residents of Crown Heights, it’s time to bring it to an end. Open your eyes and see what going on. 30 years they have been generating false controversy and fleeing with OUR money, money for every resident who might need it.

    Zaki Tamir got elected and just fell right in-line, right into their big picture of events and started doing all their biddings.
    Stop the Corruption Stop the Fraud!

  • tipshim

    Help help!! We desperately need a third rov. People are getting mugged and robbed, in our neighborhood, and this is what you can think off. Come on people wake up and smell the crime and grime in our neighborhood. Soon is Pesach, and that’s the time to ask any four questions. As of now it looks like we have a Purim sheini.

  • Its all about the distractions

    To 18:

    You speak our minds, the longer this non-issue goes on the better it is for those raping the community from the millions meant to help the Crown Heights Needy.

    As long as they have a distraction they are happy.

    Sadly like dogs, many do chase after the bones they throw.

    Let’s not give up, like water dripping on a hard stone the message will seep in to peoples brains.

  • Fs

    The argument of forgery regarding the father’s smicha was never decided by this beis din. the argument that he had Shimush was never decided by the beis din.

  • The Problem Solver

    To # 17
    We are trying to have all MacDonalds closed down for you first. The all the chazer farms. We will get to censoring the CHTs blogs in time. We are trying to keep you off the really bad stuff.

  • Milhouse

    The shtar borerin is only binding on those who signed it. Unlike Gruber’s FALSE assertion, it was NOT signed by representatives of every shul and beis medrash. And certainly the plaintiffs to the Agudas Horabonim’s beis din did not sign it, and are not bound by it.

  • olld timer

    who cares who is rav? Everyone asks which every Rav he wants anyway. We need jobs, kids at risk, housing, help for needy families. help for pesach. We are the laughing stock of the world. come on chevra, give it up. He should go back somewhere but leave him alone and spend the time and energy to see who of your friends, family or neighbor needs what help. Trust me there are tons of people in CH who need help.

  • Information

    It’s so interesting that all the other sites haven’t posted this letter but the other letter from Rabbi Gruber they posted right away.

    Its nice to have a site where one can go to and get ALL the information, not just the information a site owner decides to share and post.

    Thank you for keeping us all informed.