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Not so Fast – Beis Din Issues Ikkul Against R. Braun

BREAKING NEWS: A Beis Din issued an Ikkul [temporary restraining order] against the installment of Rabbi Yosef Braun. A Beis Din has instructed the Vaah Hakohol not to do any actions in bringing Rabbi Braun until a neutral Beis Din can overlook the issues concerning his election process and allegations of forgeries in his Semicha certificate.

Stay tuned for more details and full report

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91 Comments

  • Someone please clarify

    I dont understand something. What is this Beis Din’s jurisdiction? Can any Beis Din issue an Ikkul on any matter?

  • Mendel

    What a chutzpa. After signing and making a kinyan that ruling from R’ Rosenberg would be final – and they would not approach ANY other Beis Din – they back out of their end of the deal

  • Chaim

    Baruch Hashem!!!!

    Now if they rule that Rosenberg is right then its over if not re-election time..

  • chaim

    this bais din can not have any ruling and jurisdiction over the vaad hakahal.
    vaad hakahal does not have to listen to them.

  • ??????

    Usually, a bais din issues an ikkul for either the plaintiffs or the defendants in a case. Who requested this? Who are the “plaintiffs & defendants”?
    How does a one bais din issue an ikkul against a party that is within another case already being handled by a bais din of zabla?!
    Were ALL parties involved in the bais din of zabla – unanimously agreed to have this bais din issue ikkulim without even asking or finding out if everyone was maskim to it?!
    How did they get involved, and who asked them to be involved in this?

  • Busted

    Calm down. Let’s wait and see what this ukul is all about.. I bet there is some intresting new matrial out there that the pepole saw. And that us why they gave an ukul on Rosenberg. In Halacha if there is compeling evidence then a non related beis son cam give an ukul.

    My money is on this ukul and Braun is in deep dudu

  • A. Shliach

    If they even go to this “beis din” they are making a mockery of themselves… A din Torah was had… The COMMUNITY (represented by the Rabonim and the Vaad Hakohol – after all we elect them to represent us) took part in it… and there was a psak… Now let’s move on…
    Otherwise, ein l’dovor sof… If one side doesn’t like the rulings of this beis din, they’ll make an ikul from another beis din.
    Halacha demands that we follow the rulings of the din torah that was presided on by a zabla… Now get on with the community’s business and ignore this “new” set of rabble rousers.

    This is beginning to sound like the gore supporters in the year 2000.

  • what on earth?

    where did this beis din pop out from? who gives them the right to start mixing into this? all that’s going to happen is if they rule r’ broin is ok again, history will repeat itself (agree in writing to heed the word of a neutral b”d> don’t like the psak> ignore first commitment to listen and publicly defy) and we’ll be more than ever before engulfed by machlokes!

  • mendel

    i think a rav that has questions, should be a rav, i revoke my vote…..ch needs a respectible older rav…

  • about time

    baruch hashem. how long will take us to find out that this new posek rabbi rosenberg is not so honest ect.

  • eli

    It will now take its time thru the TOrah System and in you look in many Teshuvas Sefarim ( Zkan Aaron cheleb Bais ) now a days he writes it is a mitzvah that one Bais DIn should review another Bais dins psak because of yeridus hadoros… and now Bais din Baser bais din dayka….

    Good luck guys !!!! it is fun to watch…

  • Th Vaad Hakohol 3 imposters

    Unfortunately rabbi Rosenberg has been swayed during this whole process and was not the impartial Rov he was supposed to be.

    There fore it was necessary to have an ikul issued from an outside beis din. There are so many unanswered questions.
    The vaad Hakohol have no idea about the implications of what they are doing. Tamir has been used and thinks a photo op helps him in his personal carrier. Brownstein has no idea about kehillah inyanim he is the puppet of Rabbi Mangel who is best friends with Rabbi Scwei. Brownstein is basically clueless in these matters and is doing the dirty work for Mendy Hendel.
    So the Vaad Hakohol is trying to ram down our throats an imposter Rabbi who is a known baal machlokos in Sydney.

  • The walls of gauls are on fire

    all this is fits in with what is going on all over the world
    if you cant see then you belive in global warming and not in our Rebbe

    while it is unbliavable it is understandable that in the last days of Galus things like this will happen

    i guess there is more to come.

    time to read the Rebbes sichos from the Nuns and take notice to what is about to happen

  • Hwye Knott

    Let’s get an Ikul against the Ikul! Then if they get an Ikul against our anti-Ikul Ikul, we’ll get an Ikul declaring their Torah Sheni as void.

    The beis din zabla of 5 have spoken. Short of taking the case to the Steinmetz (Even Ezer) Sanhedren in Israel (if you recognize their authority), no beis din of three, or even 100, can reverse the decision of the Rosenberg Zabla. Shame on those who try.

  • elisha

    i say obstruction of achdus and leadership from another community is horrible sinful

    they should go you know where…..

  • juicy

    maybe they have dirty info on rosenberg and why he has been so one sided….cant wait juicy!!!!

  • tipshim

    Hey mubarak of Egypt is out of a job. For thirty years he was sort of nice to the Israelis, maybe he can be the new rov. Or even better Nasarellah from Lebanon, he has a nice looking lubavitcher beard.

  • John Doe SHLITA

    If any of you read the injunction (ikkul), it says that the petitioners were not signatories to the arbitration agreement (shtar birrurin) and therefore this bes din may take jurisdiction over the matter. Even if it were accepted that Rabbi Osdoba is bound by the original arbitration agreement to the ZABLA beth din and that their decision (psak din) is final, the Community is not bound by that agreement having never signed on to it. Interested members of the Community do not have to accept either the decision or Rabbi Braun and may bring a din Torah to object to his rabbanus.

  • To #2

    Rabbi Rosenbergs Bais Din’s ruling is final…only if Rabbi Rosenberg adheres…to his own ruling!! If he keeps on changing his very own rules, then it does not apply. Thus a NEUTRAL Bais Din must step in to see what is fishy here. You understand now?

  • we need emes

    glad all the corroption in coming to the surface. the rebbe for sure does not need such a rav in his daled amess

  • old timer

    kol hakovod to those few, from the very very many, who don’t just talk but do something. who is rosenberg to make a fool of CH and lubavitch?go away. you made your $$$$$. go home and let us continue as is because you only made it worse. braun go away and leave us to limp along as best we could. don;t make it worse.

  • antimesira

    Baroch Hashem someone is fighting the good fight.

    This leaves the rest of us to deal with the source of this corruption, which is mainly the millions that was stolen from us vie the Crown Heights Jewish Community Council Inc. and the Mossrim that have been operating this money laundering machine (also a source of Machlokes and Mesira)for far to long.

    WHERE HAS THE MILLIONS MEANT FOR NEEDY CROWN HEIGHTS FAMILIES GONE?

  • Rabbi Mattis Kantor, Eastern Parkway, NY

    Anyone who did not see this coming, probably believes that Braun & Co would bring “Achdus” to the community.

    Such blind people are the ruination of the Lubavitch Central Community. Alas, they are many – but not a majority, read on.

    [Crown Heights can elect anyone they want for their own Rov. But they cannot elect an unworthy candidate for Lubavitch SheBeLubavitch. If indeed Braun were to come, there would need to be a clear split between Crown Heights and Lubavitch SheBeLubavitch of the Rebbe’s Hoif. Sound like Achdus?]

    The best ever could have been hoped for is a peaceful co-existence. However, the meshichiosten and their fellow travelers have panicked, because they realized from the election for Vadd and Gabboim that their numbers are dropping, and this Lifetime position was a way to get the foot in the door before it is too late. (Rosenberg kept a secret door open for them, and then slammed it closed to scrutiny.)

    Anyone who says that once a Bais Din has paskend “Torah says” “Torah commands”, is simply an amhaaretz and would do better opening up an “artscroll type” Choshen Mishpat, that venting on blogs. (The original Shulchan Aruch is a bit beyond their range, methinks.)

    Finally, anyone who looked at the election scene after Rosenberg swept all the garbage under the rug, and dreamed how nice it is going to be, is a friend (of a friend) of the famous Australian “Blind Freddie”.

    Personally, I am relieved, because not even a whisper of this reached my ears, – it is not (has never been) my role to involve in active politics. This issue was/is an ideological issue. For that, even mesirass nefesh is needed. My hazmana to Beis Din Shell Maalah is still current. (For the under-tudied “who know the whole process of Torah”: It is not a concept from Torah. It is a concept from deep deep in nefesh. The derech in avoyda of the Alter Rebbe will not be hijacked in my (the biggest onov) presence bealma deyn, without a serious non-political action as this.)

  • best news I heard in weeks!

    Common sense may actually win out. Send Braun back to Sydney…they also committed fraud by saying he’s a Tzaddik & a chosheveh Rav. well, he ain’t no Rav!

  • Times of Olde

    You know, how I long to witness the humility that we see in those stories in the times of the shtetlach of the Rav being too humble to accept the position of Rav of the community. Sought after Rabbanim. Qualified and brilliant rabbanim. Not those that have doubts whether they have smicha or not.

  • Only a rumor

    Rumor has it that the Bais Din found out he called the DOH to look into Kingston Pizza. That’s not good because what happens in CH stays in CH.

  • Ad mosai

    This is Unbeleivable I’m pinching my self to make sure I’m not dreaming how could wevhave fallin so low החשך יכסה ארץ we need moshiach already it’s realy realy out of hand

  • Justice will prevail.

    Just in time for the deadline of Rosh Chodesh Adar. The Rov can cancel is tickets now and get refunded due to the weather conditions. Maybe he can get his job back in Sydney, I guess they are the ones that are gonna be most disappointed

  • lloyd a cohen

    The more things change–the more they remain the same, especially in this continious whirlpool of whose in charge and by whose authority

  • After all said and done!

    Once we get this completed we will have the real winner Rabbi Bogomilsky it will take a few more weeks maybe months but soon the truth and justice will be seen by all.

  • ceo

    #7, you are pulling down our status of being the Rebbe’s children by talking like that. I can prove it by telling you to imagine saying what you said up there in front of the Rebbe.
    You are all misguided. How could this man not have semicha, you are all just looking for some more excitement. Better go to a football game (not great either, but better than spoiling our achdus)

  • Who The ....

    Who the …. are these people? anyone ever hear of them? why are outsiders telling us what to do?

  • Disgusted with the whole mess

    B“H

    So the whole thing never ends…does anyone follow poskim and the Rebbe anymore, or does everyone just do whatever they want?

    This is a hefker velt, everyone does what they want, those in power fight without end, and Klal Yisoel suffers r”l.

    Oy meh haya lanu…and we’re supposed to be the dugma chaya of the Jewish world…it’s really pathetic.

  • to 21

    not if they participated in the elections. or you think they did it al tnay if their candidate wins?

  • Tri-State shliach

    This is great news. I felt that what occured was totally inappropiate, from finding a smicha that turned out not to be a smicha, than Braun refusing to publicize his alleged valid smicha, then the Rabbi who was paid a hefty sum with his competence credibilty on the line, makes an ‘impartial’ ruling that he didn’t botch the whole process. There are too many things that just don’t add up that are worthy of further investigation. And let’s hope for some more transparency from the beis din this time around. Not just closed door proceedings and then a vague letter like Rosenberg has released.

  • No Meshichistim for me

    For me, as an interested ex-Crown Heights resident who moved out of the community because of the Meshichistim, the idea of a “Meshichist Rov” is a contradiction in terms.

    Meshichistim, by their non-Jewish belief in a “second coming” are hardly able to be counted for a minyan, let alone to be considered kosher to serve as Rabbonim. I have long ago issued my own “ikul” against them and their cult-like practices.

    Lubavitch will never have any credibility in the Jewish world unless this group with Christian-like beliefs is completely purged from its midst.

  • yossi ben zion

    this same rabbi krauss put the crown heights bais din in siruv (including rabbi osdaba) in 1988

  • dave

    Now I understand why the “loosing party” implored the Vaad Hakohol to hold of with the ‘hachtara’ just for a while. They were shopping for an ‘ikul’! but their problem was that 99% of normal, honorable Botei Dinim WILL NOT issue an ikul in a case like this.

    So they needed TIME to “rabbi” shop all over, and find some ‘hidden’, unknown rabbonim – NOT a reputable Beis din – who are looking for some attention ($$$) etc.

    Job well done! Problem is that the parties in the dispute already SIGNED that they are NOT allowed to do this, and therefore it hold NO weight. The community is bound 1000% by the Psak Din issued by the Zablo of 5 Rabbonim headed by Rabbi Rosenberg.

    This only helps those who never supported the Badatz and never will – they now have a banner to stand behind.

  • go zakie

    it seems like ZAKIE is plying very smart. he going to the books and that will save this whole mess. am gladd to see some light. i was really worried we fell into a hendel trapp, but am sure hes not in a good mood now

  • Malka

    Call on Rabbi Moshe Kotlarsky, saviour of Lubavitch machlokes’es,to make oeace between the parties.

    He’s the best we have.

  • End Game

    All a waist of time
    simple question what is the end game for the anti rov braun camp
    a new election – they lost the last one why do they think
    the outcome will be any different.
    if a new election is ordered then i think for sure rabbi Bogomomisky should not be able to run
    A = he lost the first time
    B = inproperiety (gives the look of the unjust dealings)

    the losing side of the election rushed the election thru many including myself wanted more time to find out about rabbi Braun . They thought they would win and quess what they lost

    and if they invalidate rabbi Braun He could get the paper pretty quick and rerun again
    when yossi jacobson was intriduced by hatzoloh member at the cardiac program
    he was given the title rov and rabbi and he admits he does not have smicha. were is the outcry he should be introduced as the spirtual leader of beis shmuel nothing more
    this just proves its the losing side of an election graspiing at anything

    if they wanted a really fair election there should have been a no box

  • BARUCH HASHEM!

    “BARUCH HASHEM” IS THE CALL OF THE DAY. I THINK THAT THE VOICE OF CHASSIDIM IN CH IS ECHOING THE CALL OF “BARUCH HASHEM B/C THEY AND ME INCLUDED ARE PRAYING THAT THIS ENTIRE CROOKED MESS BE INVESTIGATED BEFORE IT IS– G-D FORBID– TOO LATE. NONE OF US WANT ANYONE SHOVED DOWN OUR THROATS, ESPECIALLY ONE WHOSE HONESTY AND INTEGRITY ARE IN QUESTION.
    ”BARUCH HASHEM!”

  • Does this make sense?

    Theoretically, if the Vaad Hakohol does not comply with the Psak Din of the communal Zablo of Rabbi Rosenberg, then their own election to the office would be void [since the elections were held on the order of the Zablo], and the previous vaad would still be in power.

    At that point, will the old/current vaad continue will all of the subpoenas? (which Moshe Rubashkin, Rabbi Bogomilsky, Rabbi Osdobo were very fearful of…)

  • the greatest rabbonim

    Obviously this action was taken to strengthen the beis din 

    That’s why they got the very same rabbonim who waged war against Rabbi Marlow A”H and yblch”t Rabbi Osdobo Shlit”o in the past.

    Or, maybe these are the only “rabbonim” who will write anything for some $$$

  • please stand up

    this is the same “Rov” that put Rabbi Marlow O.B.M. and YBLCH”T Rabbi Osdoba himself in SIRUV!

    just to show you the credibility of this individual

    the community expects you to stand up and say Enough is enough! we had a fair din torah and fair elections we have a new Rov. period!

  • self respect comes first !!!

    Let me tell you, If I would be elected for a community job and would realize that there are so many doubts about me, about my credentials, about my honesty and ability I wouldn’t want to work in such a place. I would have told every one goodbye long ago because I have some self pride and self respect.
    Does Rabbi Braun have any self pride or self respect???
    Especially after all the letters that were issued against him and his credentials by big respected Rabbis.
    Why can’t Rabbi Braum put his Smicha papers on COL and prove it to all? Does he really have all the correct and necessary papers to be on the Bais Din?

  • to number 8 Shliach

    you write: “Vaad Hakohol – after all we elect them to represent us”. as far as know no shluchim voted, so i guess you are a bored guy/bochur calling yourself a shliach. i am surprised at you at how you have the chutzpah to call yourself shliach, shame on you, i am smarter then you so i saw through you

  • Rabbi Mattis Kantor, Eastern Parkway, NY

    On this issue of an ikul alone, one theoretical question in Halacha:

    What is a baal din supposed to do, in a case where the bais din (or Av Beis Din) ignores evidence, does not answer questions about evidence, and you are certain he shows bias?

    Fall koyre’im before them and accept?

    Now another question on a lifetime position:

    One of the fundamental differences between a secular court and Torah law, is that secular law is all about settling a case (and the judge clearing his desk for a golf weekend). The Din Torah is about finding out the truth. VeDorashta VeChokarta Heitev.

    Why is this ikul such a tragedy to all those commenting as if it was? Are you afraid of the truth? Are you in such a hurry that you need to install a young person to a position for life? What is the rush here? Do you really think what you say is true: That pushing Braun into the seat will be achdus?

    Your vociferous cries of (supposed) anguish are either “ultra-naive” or politically motivated, bearing the undertones of an hysterical street mob. Your exaggerations about “sore losers” are precisely the words that turn kids off. Who can be against an investigation to establish the truth? Your resistance to taking the time to study the issues and questions raised, and then to respond point by point, is undermining your credibility in a very serious way.

    A Zabla who paskened that “even if Braun didn’t have smicha at the time of the election, it is to be expected in an election that there will be misrepresentation.” [Read that again. Think of a lifetime position for Rov in the Rebbe’s Courtyard. It is assumed there will be misrepresentation.]
    Such a psak-din should be above scrutiny? Accepted with humility?

    And what happens if Braun turns out to be still the same as he was when his mashpiyim knew him in Yeshiva, and the community is later upset or even appalled? What will you tell your kids and einiklech twenty to thirty years down the track? We signed on to a Zabla and Hashem sent us this, so we had to take it without asking questions or investigating?

    It may very well be that these new Rabbonim will confirm the Zabla’s psak., and surely if you believe what you are saying is true, then they will certainly do this.

    This is not the end of the world. It needs to go ahead to clear the air either way. And please don’t throw predictions that this will be appealed. If it is unjust, for example if it does not even call the two parties contradicting each other to testify in the beis din before each other (Tzinner and Braun, then it needs to be appealed). Such a procedure is a fundamental din-torah means of establishing the truth (as the Gemara says, “eyn odom meyiz bifnei baal dinoy”). Instead we have to rely on Rosenberg’s “gut feeling” that Braun innocently believed he had smicha. (Why he didn’t tell anyone in Sydney that he now has smicha, can be buried under one-hundred excuses, suitable for cover-up only.)

    One thing is perfectly clear to me: There is no dispute that for 10+ years, this yungerman (who is so brilliant that he could get smicha in ten minutes) didn’t bother to follow the Rebbe’s Horaa. And now he is being elected to be the Chassidishe Rov the Rebbe sends us to (VeAta TeTzaveh) for our queries? That Horaa is/was the only undisputed Tzavaa the Rebbe left us. So now in the name of the Rebbe, peace, Achdus, children’s chinuch, we are to accept such an appointment? For the Rebbe’s Kovod? Are we to take this line seriously? Are you not embarrassed to say such a thing? (Verbal thugs: my email address is harimak@gmail.com. Throw the abuse, as the psak of the Rambam is that such things fix the mood of the perpetrator. Honest people: Think about that. I am eager to hear a rational explanation of how a yungerman who was in opposition to the Shliach who initially supported him, and who for 10+ years didn’t take the 10 minutes you claim he needs for smicha, and just “do what the Rebbe said.” Get smicha. Now he is to take a lifetime seat in the “surrogate” position of the proverbial Chassidishe Rov the Rebbe tell us to consult? Please explain this to me. I promise to listen to an answer – not a red herring accusation and name call.)

    Anyone involved in such an appointment will automatically have to answer to the Bais Din Shel Maaloh before seven generations of Nessiim. This has (for me) nothing to do with politics or a “phony” psak. It has to do with the Derech of the Allter Rebbe who was prepared to lose 50 thousand Chassidim by demanding Emess. My commitment is to that derech in its entirety. To do whatever possible to ensure Chabad move closer to its roots rather than drift further. Ad mesirass nefesh (whatever it takes.).

  • answering #53 question

    Why can’t Rabbi Braum put his Smicha papers on CHI and prove it to all? Does he really have all the correct and necessary papers to be on the Bais Din?

    For the same reason Obama won’t produce a birth certificate. They don’t exist.

  • sholem

    i can find any beis din to say any thing , if you want sholem keep to rabbi rosenberger psak ignore all the bal machlokes thats what the rabbe wanted

  • On a healthy note.....

    Thanks for all your comments. They made me laugh for a while. Laughing is good for your mental health. Keep up the good work.
    On a side note, this is such a convoluted mess, that the whole world is lsughing at us.
    I have no idea if we can straighten this out.
    We need Moshiach. He is the only one to get us out of this mrss.

  • Nuchis

    look at the original arbitration agreement signed by Rabbi Osdoba and Rabbi Schwei which clearly stipulates what is to be done in such a scenario.

    It reads: “And it was clearly agreed upon that no Beis Din in the world can annul nor alter the Psak Din even if it is their belief that the Beis Din erred.”

  • Who do you think got us into this rotten

    BS”D
    My dear friends shlit”a
    To all of you who are wondering who this new Beis-Din is and how “outsiders” have the “chutzpah” to mix in here…. I just want to give you some food-for-thought:
    Who do you think got us into this rotten mess if not for an absolute outsider?
    If you haven’t seen until now what kind of outsider “Rabbi” Rosenberg is than nothing will show you what & who are outsiders… Outsiders got us into this deepdddd.. and it’s going to take outsiders to get us out of IT!!!?? Sooo Wake up and smell the coffee….
    May we be zoche b’karov to “ Hashem yivorech es amo b’shalom……

  • ????

    On the Shtar birrurin that they BOTH signed, on the third line of the fourth paragraph reads: “And it was clearly agreed upon that no Beis Din in the world can annul nor alter the Psak Din even if it is their belief that the Beis Din erred.” It’s also interesting to note that the lead signatory of the ‘Ikul’, Rabbi Chaim Krauss, has gained notoriety in Crown Heights for his involvement in the infamous ‘Siruv’ placed on the Crown Heights Beis Din in 1998, one of whose members was Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba?!

  • scmaness@gmail.com

    everyone is going to be embarrass when the truth comes to lite.r.baum,doesn’t want to embarrass everyone so he keeps quiet. the bais moshiach has an article on r.baum’s life. this is a fight from the livaks to stop moshiach ‘s coming.the sources about moshiach can be seen in the gemora.what we see by the non-jews is hashem’s way that we should not forget awhile we are in extile,the truth is we are in the middle of geula,may we see the complete geula imm

  • Mistake

    Someone (like #41)writes in numerous websites like * CHinfo that Rabbi Krauss was the one who gave a Siruv against Rabbis Marlow and Asdoba…
    Well Rabbi Krauss was never involved in aqny Siruv against Rabbis Marlow and Osdoba..the names who gave the Siruv was Rabbis Ginzburg Ralbag and Ros….of Agudas Horabonim NOT Rabbi Krauss.

  • @ 33

    Please dont hurt yourself :) calm down. Did you want a Rov with such questionable history and if you think he brought peace to the community, youre wrong. Most of the community is now quite upset about being fooled into this, It could have been a permanent devider of the shchunah. Its not peace, its people who are plotting to get rid of R ozdoba C”V for years or to push him to the side as much as possible. Did you not hear some people already calling r braun the main rov?
    And when he goes back remind him to pick up his smichah in Kenyah :)

  • Rabbi Shmuel L.....

    I’m very involved with Agudas Horabonim since 1970s,
    Some people wrote in numerous websites (and here 3 times like #44 51 52) *, CHinfo etc.. that Rabbi Krauss was the one who gave a Siruv against Rabbis Marlow and Asdoba in 1988…
    Well Rabbi Krauss was never involved in any Siruv against Rabbis Marlow and Osdoba..the names who gave the Siruv was Rabbis Ginzburg, Ralbag and Ros….of Agudas Horabonim NOT Rabbi Krauss.

  • Please explain

    once second: the same people whe were waging a bitter war against the C.H. Badat’z for over 20 years, using every means to try and destroy the whole institution, they got these 3 rabbonim to put the Badat’z in “siruv”.

    sudenly, these very same people are fighting FOR the Badat’z, FOR Rabbi Osdobo and get the very same “rabbonim” involved. is this serious?

    It seems like their agenda NEVER changed. their ultimate goal is to Chas Vesholom DESTROY THE BEIS DIN.

  • Berl from Moscow

    They smelled money. How much money was spent on Rosenberg’s Beth-Din? They also think maybe someone will spend some money to have them review the final psak.

    I don’t think it is right to even discuss this ikkul in public, or pay attention to it.

    There’s a stipulation in Rosenberg’s psak that if one party disagrees with the psak, he will be removed and elections of a new Rov will follow.

    So far, Rabbi Schwei won 99.9% of his justified demands.

  • to all Braun supporters etc. etc.

    I have something to tell you. Were right now learning Parshas Trumah, about the construction of the Mishkan which to be made into a Dirah batachtonim for hashem. Last week we read Parshas Mishpotim. A question i have is why isnt Trumah read before Mishpotim? My answer to you is: In order to make a proper dirah Batachtonim, we have to be honest 1st. We cannot build a Bes Din/community based on a foundation of fraud and Corruption. For example, someone putting up his candidacy without telling us in advance about (at best,) his dubious Smichos.

  • is this true?

    The Vaad Hakohol CANNOT listen to this “ikul”. If they choose not to follow Rabbi Rosenberg’s Beis Din’s Psak Din then they automatically – retroactively – disqualify themselves from being members of the Vaad.

    The old Vaad will be back in. [the only reason they are the curent Vaad, is because of the Psak Din of the Zabl“o. Remove that, and were back to square one r”l]

  • hypocrisy

    all those writers saying about the siruv he put out on R osdoba, are Rabbi shwei’s Pashkvilin against R osdoba any better?

  • Moshe

    #55
    Im kol havod el “harimak@gmail.com”:

    At the end of your post “until mesiras nefesh, whatever it takes”

    I hope your devoted readers understand you to mean mesiras nefesh – to be moser your own nefesh… not others’…

    Perhaps you can clarify what you intended with “whatever it takes.”

  • Nachman

    To Rabbi Mattis Kantor

    Could you please elaborate which Siman in Shulchon Aruch are you talking about or wich Mechaber Rama Shach or Taz ???

    You Quote
    “Anyone who says that once a Bais Din has paskend “Torah says” “Torah commands”, is simply an amhaaretz and would do better opening up an “artscroll type” Choshen Mishpat, that venting on blogs. (The original Shulchan Aruch is a bit beyond their range, methinks.)”

  • The Korach V-Adoso Destiny?

    We all know where Korach V’Adoso ended up and it’s the same destiny for all of todays Korach_Followers.

  • oh vey

    obviously braun loves machlokes and strife otherwise he would leave us alone. he is quite bright and can see how he is not wanted here. why is he pushing himself into a place where he is not wanted. yes, he won by a small majority, but now he sees what is going on and even the people who voted for him are questioning him. regardless of the outcome of the ikul or the machlokes etc. he knows that he will only bring more machlokes and split lubavitch. the normal meushivdike chassidim (read non moshichistin and not wild baal machlokes) will never accept him and just do what they have to do. Also does he have no pride and self respect? who wants to push himself in where he is clearly not wanted

  • game over

    An Ikul is to prevent a specific action in the FUTURE.

    I don’t believe any action needs to be taken at this point by the vaad hakohol. the elections are over. the hachtara was already held.

    GAME OVER. the vaad hakohol has NO power/jurisdiction over the Crown Heights Beis Din. aderaba, they are subject to the rulings of the Beis Din

  • Re 61

    I believe that your point is meaningless for two reasons:

    A) Rabbi Osdoba is only a single Crown Heights resident that can sign on to an agreement on his own behalf. The remainder of the community have their own interest independent of Rabbi Osdobas’, which if nature reigns only has a half a century remaining on this earth, while we will be under this young new rov for closer to a century, be”h with everybody living l’arichas yomim vshonim toivos. We therefor have the right to contest something quite relevant to our lives, regardless if Rabbi Osdoba likes it or not. Don’t forget a rov is elected not appointed by the rabbonim, so if it comes out that the nominee used deception to sway the majority vote, the least we can demand is an impartial and independent investigation as to whether the election was a mekach tous and than if it is deemed as one, have a rematch with all the TRUE CARDS TRANSPARENTLY on the table. And if Braun wins an HONEST election in the future, than I guess he has the job (despite my distaste with that).

    B) If I have purchase a product that was misrepresented to me, despite signing an agreement I can nullify it. For example, if somebody says I’ll sell you this magnificent diamond and I agree to purchase it with a signature that I can’t return the product, I am bound to abide by my signature. But if it later turns out that I was swindled and he fraudulently misrepresented a cubic zirconia as a diamond, you bet your boots I will throw the stone back in his face and cancel the check.

    Likewise, the electorate was under the impression that he was a rov when in fact it appears that he wasn’t. He can have all the lomdus/bekius in the world, yet if we were lied to, the deal is off.

  • Analyzer

    The Crown Heights Beis Din is doomed.

    Ever since they and the Vaad Hakohol came out against the Rebbe’s institutions (Rabbi Chodakuv, Aguch, Merkos), and notoriously placed the Rebbe’s mentchen (Rabbis Krinsky and Shemtov) in some sort of “lo tzayis” they are doomed to failure.

    It is clear to all whose eyes are open! A huge international din Torah–and these are the resukts.

    There’s is only one solution: the Crown Heights Beis Din needs to be dissolved, totally. Only when no zeicher of the old Beis Din (which committed the above crimes against the Rebbe)remains, will be able to construct a new Beis Din FROM SCRATCH.

  • @ 79

    learn the sichos in 5747 how the rebbe is talking about people like you who defy Rabbonim. Learn Halachah that says that the Rabim can choose who’s to be their leader. We dont need your shpitz chabad friends in power over us just like mendy hendel wants power. It’s not communism here and all the publics involvement is according to halachah!! only you want certain figures in power

  • elki

    Great distraction from any other distressing news in CH, such as crime…Is everybody having fun?

  • $250,000

    Rabbi Rosenberg had to stand by his original psak,otherwise he would have to return the $250,000 for botching it up.

  • Rabbi Mattis Kantor, Eastern Parkway, NY

    To # 73 Start with Siman 25 in Choshen mishpat.

    To #72: Perhaps there are twisted minds out there who are suspect of such language. “Whatever it takes” means spending valueable time; speaking up, speaking to, and writing to individuals. It means accepting the fact that verbal thugs will keep calling, writing and etc., snagging more time in the net.

    It does not stand to reason, that the emmess le’amitossoy of Adha“z can be permanently captured, much less eliminated, from Chabad. We see such attempts here/now Those who had no time to wait; must act now; no judicial review; etc.; obviously hiding something. Most amazing: believing that this will bring sholom

    It is interesting to note the similarity: Adha”z requested not to be haughty over those who lost (the “loosers”; “sour grapes”; “you lost”!?); and he was prepared to lose thousands of chasssidim by insisting on what kind of emess Chabad was to be. Those who couldn’t hack it left to Karlin, Chernobyl, Lechevitch etc.
    “Whatever it means” could LOY OLEYNU require a similar nesirah of chatzi ha’elyon, to maintain (or reinstate is more accurate) a pyramid structure (as in Takkonos Lyozhna lemashal) where the meritocracy of Torah and Tefilla are tangible. Not a cholent where Russian potatoes are inherently larger that Galitzyaner beans, or Hungarishe Flaysh. Where a 17 year old bochur is comfortable telling an older person what he should be doing. There are no gradations to measure by. A baal teshuvah of 12 months knows as much about the Rebbe’s wishes as an 80 year old chosid. His vote counted is not enough. His opinion must be heard.

  • To Rabbi Mattis Kantor

    Does Siman 25 apply in our case where a shtar birurin was signed by both parties where it explicitly is written that no B”D has the power to annul or change the psak din. ???

    Nachman Sanowicz

  • Rabbi Mattis Kantor, Eastern Parkway, NY

    To #84.
    Yes.
    Go learn BeIyun. You will find enough there (even just the title of the Siman.) If you still cannot find it, change you glasses. They are coloring what you see.
    But out of respect to someone who at least asks respectfully, and signs (assuming there is such a person) let me ask you a theoreticl question:
    If someone signs as you say, and one of the dayanim is found in a totally different case, to be a possul leDayan, is the signature voided? There are worse case scenarios than that, but why be ma’arich on a davar poshut umuvan me’atzmo. To be told that “you cry-babies; you should have expected misrepresentation in an election: This is what (virtually) Rosenberg writes. In an election for a Rov in the shcunah. Unfortunately it can no longer be called the Rebbe’s Beis Din if someone who ignored the simplest and most basic Horaa of the Rebbe for 10+ years (everyone agrees that before Tzuinner there was no smicha. Call it Hiskashrus Toihu.)

    Anyway, what are you so concerned about. The new Beis Din will judge this issue also.

  • To Rabbi Mattis Kantor

    Bimechilas Kvoidoi Harav

    I am asking for mekoirois not emotional feelings or in your words venting.
    Please no hypotheticals. I think that the Zabla we chose are world class dayanim talmidai Chachomim.

    Again
    Does Siman 25 apply in our case where a shtar birurin was signed by both parties where it explicitly is written that no B”D has the power to annul or change the psak din ???
    Mekoirois please.

    A Guiten Shabbos and guten Choidesh
    Nachman Sanowicz

  • Mr. No-Name-Commenter

    Mr. Sanowicz, you are forgetting something, RO did not obtain the Ikul, it was obtained by parties not bound to the original Psak.

    So why are they able to go head and get an Ikul? Very simple.

    The election of R. Braun is something which affects every single person who lives in Crown Heights, and therefore any single person can who is affect by a Psak Din has the right to weigh in and make a demand.

    If Reuven and Shimon have an dispute over something, and they both went to a Din Torah and the Beis Din Paskened that Reuven is right and therefore Shimon must do X, but by Shimon doing X he is affecting Levi. Levi has the right to obtain an Ikul and stop it from happening, so long as its inline with Halacha.

    In the case of R. Braun, he is being appointed into a position of Rabanus with allegations that his Semicha is forged, I Mr. no-name-commenter who lives in Crown Heights has the right to demand clarification from a Beis Din that is willing to hear me.

  • To Mr. No-Name-Commenter wrote

    Since I am a Mr and you are a Mr we will let the Rabonim sort it out.

    Lets ask the Rabonim if what you say is black and white.
    Don’t the Rabonim represent the community at large ??
    And if one Shutaf goes to a din Tora we know from the Rambam we just learnt that after the psak din the other Shutaf has to abide. It is now before Shaboss Ten Lechocom vyechkam oid.

    A guten Shabbos

    Nachman Sanowicz

  • Inda Know

    The Vaad HaKohol represents the ENTIRE community as regards community affairs. The Vaad Hakohol of the time signed the shtar birrium. Yhe community is bound. End of story. (period)

  • Rabbi Mattis Kantor, Eastern Parkway, NY

    To Nachman HaTzair Sanowitz (Tzair haniker bechutzufoi):

    It is in Siman 25.

    What is it about “Siman 25” that you do not understand?”

    I was moysif another inyan – so obviously I was goreya. So now I know something of who you are. A naar vaizt men nisht keyn halbeh arbet, un a vildeh ferd shtoyst.

    Go learn and stop calling me. Will I have to post mp3’s of them to put you back in your box?

    P.S. What happens if one of the parties in the mix is choshud as a child molester? Nachman, back off before you are sorry. I know more than just one siman in halacha. And I still hold the title of the Greatest Onov in Brooklyn, and I m doing all this because in 11 months there will be a contest for the National Title.

    I really do not understand your passion for hiding the truth, (and silencing truth seekers). Please explain that. Ich bin oych a shoytreh noch tzu dem naar. I do not understand the panic emerging from those who WON! Yon non-gentlemen protesteth too much.

    Big deal. Another few sages will stroke their beards and muse. You have it in the palm of your hand. The hachtarah and the contract.

    By the way: Are you having an extra kugel for Rosh Chodesh? They say it calms the nerves.

  • Dovid Moshe

    Rabbi Chaim Krauss Shlita is a highly respected Posek and Dayan well known in the Yeshivishe world. He is often sought out by other Rabbonim to help with halachically complex cases of Gittin and Kashrus.

    Rabbi Krauss was from the few people on a shortlist of Rabbonim who would Pasken when questions concerning the Mikvah in Crown Heights would arise. Those involved know that they can call him at all hours of the night.

    There were some cases when the Rebbe directed people to ask a Rav and they asked Rabbi Krauss and as a follow up sent in his response to the Rebbe. His son Harav Tzvi Meir Krauss Shlita is the Rosh Chaburah at BMG, and author of the Sefer ‘Iyun Tevilah’.