98 Comments

• stupid controling rabbis

  do i hear lawsuit

• Permission First?

  I didn’t even realize that the Beis Din could even be involved in freedom of speech!? You need to get the Community Council’s permission first?

• Impressed!!

  Very impressed by Eli Federman for his letter and his bravery to put his name to it. I think he is slightly overstepping his bounds by informing the rabbonim that their edict is against Jewish law. Without knowing either of them, I would guess that the 2 rabbonim are slightly more proficient in “Jewish law” then Mr. Federman.

  All told though, an excellent letter and I’m very interested to see where this goes.

• Listen to rabbonim

  the rabbanoim paskind, end of story you dont like it go somewhere else bigshot! who do you think you are to speak out openly against rabbonim! Get it they paskind now shut the !!!! up

• aryeh

  so if someone commits a crime,they expect the victim to get special permission to speak to the police so were basicly being told that if a crime is commited then that person shall go free without prosecution or an investigation do we have any say in the matter that protects our familys i dont think anyone should even consider listening to such an order it puts people at risk since the beis din doesnt have anyone who can do a real investigation into crimes witch are commited by anyone,nor do they have the athority to put someone in jail for the crimes they have commited. should we allow pedophilers to get away with their crime? should we put our kids at risk tell them that you cant do anything to protect them untill they get approvel? i think the beis din should retract this stupid ruling or they should be replaced by people who understand the meaning of protection this rulling is making a joke of the beis din they are abusing their powers.if a crime is commited each and every single person has the obligation to go streight to the police,streight to the d.a office and seek justice, for the sake of our community,for the sake of the children, for the sake of every human being i plead with you please ignore such a letter there have been to maeny cases witch have been swept under the rug, the time has come for us to open our eyes and seek justice.dont ignore the crimes,dont think that by not speaking up you are helping someone its the oppisite there is the crime that was commited then there is the crime of not speaking up. you are not speaking loshan harah if you go to the police and report a crime there is no need for a victim to suffer twice!!!

• mad!!

  i dont under stand this between a jew and the NYPD we must remain silent but from a jew to a jew we are allowed to go to court?
  where is the letterfrom the rabonim against the messirah that happined lest year?

• no words

  this is realy sad.
  and in this is the difffrents between crownheights.info and that “other” site, they dont want whats good for the comunity they want whats good for there backside its sickens me to read what they write there.
  (by the wey they said to vote for broin)

  and if any1 listns to this psak is going against torah.

• Halachic Analyst

  Dina demalchuso Dina is a concept relating specifically to taxation or similar monetary matters. The attempt to apply this principle in all judicial matters is a knee-jerk reaction born out of sheer am hoaratzus!

  In addition, any attempt to undermine the efforts of elected communal officials to address matters through carefully nurtured relationships, smells of, in the words of the Rabbonim, an attempt to pursue a personal agenda. Why should that be democratically acceptable if it is to the detriment of other community members?

• TZ

  you posted an article with the disagreement of a young law school graduate vs the rabbonim.
  I am ashamed that our community could post such things. Internal issues do not have to be publicized to such a degree that you, ch.info, are bashmutzing the rabbunim by posting it! You are enabling people to second guess our Rabbonim!
  Our community needs to respect our leaders. there has been a lot of work in the last year to gain respect back and put the Rabbonim where they belong, leading the community together.
  HOW DARE YOU put down the Rabbonim? there wasn’t even a mention that OBVIOUSLY the Rabbonim must be listened to ACCORDING TO HALACHA!!! and the young man who is now a lawyer and now feels all powerful should know that if he would carefully inspect the letter the Rabbonim let you file any complaint you wish, just through the community council, and personal issues DO NOT go through the community council if you don’t want.

• Not normal

  This is insane….Get out of CH now!

• Dear TZ #9

  Thank you, I learned a new word today: bashmutzing.

• Moshe

  What is the Halachic authority of the Beth Din’s letter? Why are they involving themselves in issues not even related to Halacha? I agree with Eli Federman that they Rabbi’s are overreaching.

• #4 wake up and smell the coffee

  respect is earned!!!!

  where were the rabbonim when all the mesirahs were happening when families were hurt financially and emotionally where were they when we needed them the past few years they were busy making more machlokes and not getting along with each other and bashmutzing each other – losing our respect. what are u left with – people like myself who are fed up and say rabbonim go to h…. ill do whats good for me ill look after myself!!!

• Smells

  Can someone please point out to me were in the Rabbonims letter is there a single Halacha?
  M’Hachan Dan’Tuni?

  Besides that the Rabbonim here never released a letter in English.

• anan

  i ynderstood the rabonim as saying one cannot speak in the name of the community wunless authorized so. this does nor take a way anyones right to go to police about a personal matter. sowhats wrong with this?

• lefty

  between a jew and jew we should be quiet but about all the crime in the community we should scream

• Idiots

  To all those who write here pro the letter, in turn, accepting its bans.
  When G-D forbid you daughter gets violated go seek permission, make it a communal matter, make it public that you daughter was violated. For Shiduchim sake its vary important we all know about it.

  Oww and when you get pulled over don’t talk to the cop until you get permission.

• Disgusted

  What a completely inappropriate decision by the Beis Din!
  So what, now if you see your ‘fellow Jew’ seriously beating his wife or child we can’t report it to the police since the police might investigate? Or what about if a Jewish man rapes a girl- can’t report that either? Yes, not the most common crimes in this community, but we are naive if we ignore the fact that it DOES happen!

• False signatures

  The signatures on the letter are fake. Notice the rabbi’s never signed “Rabbi” on any letter they have written in Hebrew. Someone wrote this in their name, besides it has the style of a lawyer and not halacha

• Yecchi

  Oy is dos rabonim wit ah eizenem koach…….

• lefty

  Chnukah was this last week we fought for our freedom then and we have fought against the Greeks now we have to fight for our first Admendment right of free speech. We have a right as citizens of the United States to know and appreciate the Police Department if they are doing what they are supposed to do. Is crime down? or is crime Up?? Does anyone know what is going on in the Community Council and Police Department. I know the Police try to work…

• Deal with the issues and we will obey th

  When the 3 bocherim were issued summonses for standing on private property (not that is should make a difference where they stood, why should they have been ticketed even if they were really standing on the sidewalk?), they first approached Zaki for help, he referred them to Eli Cohen who handles these matters.
  Instead of getting assistance in this matter they were told by Rabbi Cohen not to rock the boat, not to spoil the “good” relationship the community has with the cops.
  Fact is, some cops ARE abusing their positions and the community is suffering. The community council is not dealing with these concerns, all they do is thank the cops, slap them on the back and give them plaques for a job well done. The abuses are not being handled. Why did these 3 kids have to go to a TV station and a lawyer to get some justice? Why didn’t the Vaad handle it on the day and get these bogus tickets annulled?
  If the community counsel cant/wont deal with the real issues as they arise, then us the victims have no choice but to turn to other avenues for redress.

• Annonymous

  good note on the signatures if you look it looks like the same handwriting. Why do people have to do these things? Why can’t we live in peace with one another and when something does go on, let people know that there are certain criminals out there. The people should know about the situation out there.

• Milhouse

  Who is this am ho’oretz Federman? To claim that because a psak din “violates democratic principles and values as well as victims’ rights laws” it is “therefore against Jewish law because Jewish law requires we follow the law of our country” shows not only a dangerous level of amhoratzus, but a poisonous anti-Torah hashkafah that must be suppressed whether this particular psak din is justified or not. Mr Federman, whether you like it or not you MUST ACCEPT that the Torah rules, and NOT the goyishe law. There is NO SUCH REQUIREMENT as you claim, to obey the law. It is made up. It does not appear anywhere in Torah, Mishnah, Gemara, or Shulchan Aruch. And when the law contradicts the halacha in any way, no matter how slight, we are FORBIDDEN to follow the law.

  When Eliyahu Hanavi defied the law, when Mordechai defied the law, when Matisyohu defied the law, when Rabbi Akiva defied the law, when R Chananya ben Tradyon defied the law, were they all violating halacha, chas veshalom? When the Alter Rebbe and the Tzemach Tzedek and the Frierdicker Rebbe defied the law, were they chas veshalom wrong? When our own parents and grandparents defied the law, both by teaching and learning in illegal chadorim, maintaining mikvaos, etc., and also by dealing on the black market and forging passports and illegally crossing borders, do you have the chutzpah to say they were wrong?! Where do you think you are, in some Modern Orthodox community or at YU?! How dare you stand up in the Rebbe’s shchuna and tell our Rabbonim that because their psak din is against the goyim’s law, it therefore violates Jewish law?! Have you no shame?

  What treife chinuch did you have, that you could come out with such a statement? Who fed you this anti-Torah ideology of putting the law of the country on a par with — or even above — the Torah? How did an obscure rule in Choshen Mishpot, which I’m sure you never learned inside (because you never even began learning Choshen Mishpot let alone getting that far into it), become such an important ikkar in your emunah?

  I make no comment at this time about whether the psak din is justified or not, whether it’s binding al pi halacha or not, or how people should react to it. Before we even get there we must be clear on one thing: Torah comes before EVERYTHING else, while federal state and local laws come AFTER everything else, if at all. Otherwise you are not a loyal yid but a sheigetz, and have no business participating in the discussion in the first place. Only once you accept that can we discuss how this psak din fits in to Torah, what basis it might have in shas and poskim, and whether the signatories have the authority to require us to obey it.

• just read the letter

  c’mon people, read the letter! the rabonim didn’t say that victims should be silent until permission is granted by the chjcc. they said that websites shouldn’t be used to publicize personal grievances or communal issues. mr.federman, juris doctor, shouldn’t have embarrassed himself by writing his letter. presumably he learned reading comprehension before attending law school.

• Millhouse

  Some commenters above seem to imagine that Mesirah is some trivial issue that they can dismiss out of hand. Nothing could be further from the truth. Mesirah is one of the most serious sins a Jew can commit, and a mosser can be KILLED by anyone who finds himself in a position to do so and get away with it. Think about that; a mechalel shabbos theoretically deserves the death penalty, but since 40 years before the churban we no longer execute mechalelei shabbos. All the misos beis din are no longer in force, since we have no Sanhedrin in the Lishkas Hagozis. But a mosser’s death penalty applies TODAY, in every country and at every time. Ask older chassidim how in Russia mossrim were drowned in the mikveh. Ask those who lived in Europe during the War how they dealt with mossrim. And it applies with equal force here in America in the 21st century. There is no exception in the Shulchon Oruch for us. America is nisht andersh.

  If you have information that could get another Jew in trouble with the law, and you think it important to give that information to the authorities you MUST first obtain permission from a COMPETENT POSEK, who knows these halachos and is familiar with them and their application. If you have a shayla in kashrus or in shabbos, or in taharas hamishpocho, do you decide for yourself based on your own feelings, or do you ask a rov? So how can you dream of not asking a shayla in such a serious matter as mesirah? Better than you should eat treif and break shabbos and be boiel niddah chas vesholom than that you should be a mosser.

• is this a joke

  If your daughter g-d forbid gets rapped, you must first let the community know about it and then maybe after the rapist shows for a Din Torah you might just be able to report, if you get permission.

• Milhouse

  #21, on Chanukah we did not fight for freedom. The Greeks offered us freedom; the freedom to worship avoda zara if we chose, the freedom to work on shabbos, the freedom to go uncircumcised. We fought AGAINST that freedom, in order to reinstate the authority of the Torah. Remember the rebellion started with Matisyohu stabbing a fellow Jew who dared to exercise his “freedom of religion” by sacrificing to a Greek god. We have a first amendment right to speak out against the police, but we do NOT have any right to break the halacha. If the duly appointed halachic authorities of our community, the morei de’asro, have issued a psak din that is well-based on halacha, then we must obey it, first amendment or no first amendment. The first commandment takes precedence. (I make no comment on whether this has indeed happened; I speak only to the principles involved. I suggest that anyone for whom it’s a practical issue should approach the rabbonim privately to confirm whether they really did issue this psak, and if so on what basis they issued it.)

• Binding?!

  When Rav Osdoba paskened – against the Rebbe – that Sidur Kidushin in Crown Heights is only his domain – is that “binding” too??!!

• sad

  http://www.vosizneias.com/7…

• happy

  THANK YOU #22 you saved me from alot of typing

• concerned resident

  Item number 4 in the letter should make the pediphiles in our community feel pretty safe, knowing their reputation will be kept intact enough for them to continue perpetrating.

  Rabbi’s aren’t equipped with the training and knowledge of how to help victims of crimes, we should look to them for advise WITHIN their area of expertise

• SICK OF STUPIDITY

  number 13 you sound like a selfish jerk. Do I think machloikes between Rabonim is a good thing? NO. but I do think that a ship MUST have a captian otherwise it will sink. and if we don’t look up to the Rabonim, we are sunk. did they make mistakes? yes, probably because they are human and possibly because the wonderful people in our neighborhood help to create and promote it. And yes, I do agree with them that we should not wash our dirty laundry by talking to the media as all they do is misinterprete and only make us look BAD. When you have one lubavitcher beating up another for ridiculous personal agendas, one has no choice but to report to the police as it’s unfortunately the only way to stop them. These kinds of thugs don’t give a crap about what Rabonim or anyone else says. Anyone who could raise his hand on another Jew for personal vendettas deserves whatever he gets. and #24 get with it!

• CH Voter

  Its amazing this is what you get when you don’t have a third rabbi. Oh but we do… Wait a minute isn’t he still not here?. But then again he was voted so why isn’t his name on the stationary. Oh I forgo, we haven’t ratified his contract yet. But he said he will answer texts. So why don’t we text him to get his name on this crazy edict?. Oh that right he only answers texts on his CHJCC issued phone.

  Bottom Line wake up people, had Rabbi Bogomilsky have been elected this craziness would stop. This must have been the advice by CHJCC’s new Consultant To Zaki Tamir – Chanina Sperlin. After all you dont have to be to smart to realize that these rabonim did not initiate this on their own. Oh I just remembered maybe it was not Chanina to Zaki but rather Zaki’s Brother- in-law, Shaul Shimon Deitch ie the Lioshna Rebbe.

  People wake up and start thinking before voting. The community is going to He– in a handbasket becasause of pure stupidity

• Milhouse

  #25, when did the Rebbe say anything different?

• do the right thing

  I hope no one is foolish enough to listen to these rabbonim.

  If you know of a Jewish person who commited a crime: molesting, abuse etc. You must report it to the police to bring them to justice and more importantly to protect future victims.

  There is no justice in the chabad commmunity. no one listens to rabbonim. They behave childishly. They have absolutely no authority. As you see that no one listens to them. If someone is called to beis din they imply do not apear & thats the end of the story there is no way to enforce their law.

  so do yourself and your community a favor and if you are aware of a crime. Tell the police. Dont have it on your consience that you are aiding a criminal by not reporting it to the police.

  This letter is complete utter nonsence.

• furious in communist crown heights

  I am horrified. I was raised to always, ALWAYS show kovod to Rabbanim, but how can I accept this? I can’t believe this quai-bais din has the chutzpa to try to shut us up. They can’t even get their act together to get rid of a Rav who doesn’t even have Smicha!

  How dare they! They are the problem! They are terrified of Chanina, Poltorak & even that Moser Huebner. They are weak, corrupt, a disgrace to the Rebbe. i can’t find the words to express my disgust. I can’t even have a Rav i want to be Mesadik Kedushin at my children’s chasunah, i have to have one of them. It makes me sick. They tell us what to do but they don’t ever speak up about the abuses & corruption here. Kashrus, the rip-offs in the Yeshivas, physical & mental abuse in families, all the terrible things we read about in the world happen right under their noses and they don’t do a damn thing about them.

  If we don’t speak up we’re dead.Well, this is one resident who is going to stand up and say whatever I have to No Rabbi is going to stop me speaking out when i think it’s important. How dare they try to take away our free speech. what is this, communist Russia? They think they’re the NKVD or KGB? Like hell! I’ll show kovod to these Rabbis when they do what’s right and get rid of the corrupt CHJCC and the mosrim that infect our community.

• out of here ASAP

  PLEASE BUY MY HOUSE!!! PLEASE!!!

• uhu, ya.

  I saw one of these “rabbis” flip flop on a divorce case. First he wrote one letter. Then when the other side pressured him he wrote a totaly opposite letter protecting the opposite side.

  These letters are meaningless. They represent the pressure of the week. Next week, when lobbyed by another group, they’ll publicize a totaly different opinion.

  Come on crown heights. you are smart people. you can see through this.

  By the way, speaking of protecting our community, The rabbonim dont seem to care about their community much when they say you cant report a crime to police. This gives pedophiles lots of protection. hello rabonim, do you want to be reponsible when a child gets hurt ch”v??!!

• Learn from DA Charles Hynes

  I just read this on another web site:

  New York – Brooklyn D.A. Charles Hynes responded in an email to Catholic League President Bill Donohue to the news release on the Beth Din of Crown Heights controversy.

  Hynes said, in part, “In the 21 years I’ve served as Brooklyn’s District Attorney I have never been deterred by anyone including the various Beth Dins in Brooklyn from fulfilling my responsibilities as the Chief Law Enforcement Official of Kings County.”

  He went on to say that “nothing can interfere with my authority to investigate and prosecute any allegation of crime in my County.”

  IGNORE THIS “PSAK.” It means nothing. We have a LEGAL right as American citizens (& even illegals) to be able to reach out to the authorities when we need help. That includes having the LEGAL RIGHT to protest or complain if we don’t feel we were treated right.

  You all think the sheitel TV show was a chilul Hashem? This is much, much worse. What have we come to? Communism?

• Who Seed Watt

  What is this? The Vatican?

• Community member

  Thank you Mr. Federman for speaking out on this issue. The result of such gag orders and edicts are the source of an untold number of problems. How many children (and there parents!) who were sextually abused are afraid to speak out and bring the perpetrator to justice b/c of this attitude? The result are children going off the derech in droves and the community harboring these offenders. Why? Not to air our dirty laundry? The eitze is… continue killing children!!??

  If Rabbonim want the authority they deserve, they should deal w/ issues and not cover for their friends children etc. If you want justice, unfortunately, one must take things in their own hands!!

  Besuros tovos. V’nizke l’geula amitis u’shleima.

• live here

  The only way anyone will listen to the rabbonim is if we have respect for them. Respect is earned not forced. Also if the community is told what is going on then they will maybe agree but do not think that you are the absolute authority and the people are nothing. This does not work.
  This letter was not written by rabbonim but by some people who want to shut every one up because of their own agenda.

• simple veible

  can anyone answer:

  why is rabbi marlow still on the stationary? Also, I thought rabbi heller wasnt on the beis din?

  so they have different letter heads: some for joint edicts btwn shwei and asdobo, seperate ones for when they are fighting..

• The communist Millhouse

  You must be a member of the Eirev Rav.

• Milhouse

  Commenters #36 and #40 are KOFRIM BE’IKAR. They openly advocate mesirah, not after asking a rov and carefully considering the relevant halachos, but lechatchila. They put the goyim’s law above the Torah. These commenters, whoever they are, should know that they are NOT PART OF THE JEWISH NATION, and it is forbidden to be in their four amos, to count them in a minyan, or to drink non-mevushal wine they touch. They have the din of GOYIM. Of course, we don’t know who they are, but they do. Shame on them, and on anyone who agrees with them.

• MMB

  The Rebbe is gone, the best of our people are on lifelong shlichus, what’s left in the Heights, sad to say is…………

• To mr mill house from ch cynic

  In your haste to make this a personal attack on mr federman you failed to understand the main point of his argument. If what the rabbanim are saying has no basis whatsoever in Halacha, which they don’t, then they are infringing on our civil liberties. Not only are they infringing on our civil liberties, but lo sa’amod al dam rayecha comes to mind as well. Are we supposed to just sit on our hands and let our community members get beaten, robbed and killed while we get tickets for riding bikes on sidewalks, talking on sidewalks and who knows what else??????

  mr mill house, I suggest you get a grip and come to terms with what’s really going on over here. Open your eyes and take a good look around and hear what people are saying before you write a scathing personal attack. If you truly understood what people are saying, including mr federman, you wouldn’t be so quick to judge. Quite frankly, the harshness of your response, personal attacks and attitude do nothing to lend credence to what you are saying.

• Good Luck!

  To all you ignorant FFBs…Crown Heights now run by a real deal mafia. Just to let you know know what you are dealing with:

  1. http://www.google.com/searc…

  2. http://www.cassiopaea.com/c…

  Unless Rabbi Krinsky steps in….GOOD LUCK!

• Julian Assange

  If the government can’t control WikiLeaks, why do the Rabbonim think they have the right to regulate our free speech? Do they think we’re spreading national secrets that affect world events? Are they so egotistical?

• Control, control, control

  Control, control, control.

  Why doesn’t the Vaad help residents with what they are supposed to help with, Jobs, finances, homes, etc etc.

  Instead of looking for stupid Kiss-A$$ photo-ops start helping the residents.

  BTW why isn’t there money in the council??

• sruly

  I always listened to the Rabbonim and have real Smicha and half way through Shimmush, however when Rabbonim start writing Garbage lioke this they put our lives at steak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  And the Vad hakohl should tell the Shmucks in 71st precint that if they don’t like the bad news we give over to the media they should start acting like human beings.

• BCH

  I mean no disrespect to the Rabbonim, but it seems to me we were better off when they refused to sign any document together…

• who wrote the letter????

  In continuation to # 19,(Someone wrote this in their name, besides it has the style of a lawyer and not halacha) Just maybe its levi paul hubner who hapens to be the lawer for the community council this letter seems like something he would concoct, and if it is him SHMIRA MESIRA????? or maybe he feels the heat surounding all the genayvas of his son in law EFRAYIM THE GAVIF SETTON and he wants to make sure noone reports him to the police.

• Dear Eliyahu

  I’m sure you did really well in law school. But did you take the time to properly, and personally research the Rebbe’s views on the Rabbonim and their authority before writing this? Also, did you get the explicit permission of a mashpia before publicly publishing this letter?

  (And out of curiosity, when you say that no one rabbi represents the community, would that include the Rebbe?)

  The Rebbe strongly and fiercely lashed out at anyone who demeaned the Rabbonim. The Rebbe said many times Da’as Baalei Batim heipech Da’as Torah.

• to Mr. Millhouse / #24

  Please tell me where in Halocho does it state that you require Mr. Tamir’s permission to place a phone call to the media to report NYPD aggression against the Crown Heights Jewish community.

  Thank you Mr. Millhouse.

• Yungerman

  If I were in Aushwitz, I would obediently jump into the ovens and then text Mr. Cohen and Mr. Tamir for permission to crawl out.

• Shmira vs Shomrim

  Son in other words Shmira who is with the CHJCC can have a relation with the police and Shomrim cannot?

  And we cann’t do anything that will jeopardize Eli Cohen’s and Shmira’s good standing with the police.

• Eli-s new tactics

  Is this the new tactics, if you get Eli Cohen upset, especially by trashing his name on line, he’ll go to the Rabbonim and have a psak issued against you?

• Effective

  If the CHJCC were effective we everyone would go to them to begin with and we wouldn’t be having the crime wave of the century right now!

• ch resident

  charity starts at home. Instead of dividing the community they should work with peace in the community and then whatever the rabbis say will be listened to and not mocked as there would be respect from the community. Same with the nypd, if they would respect us then why would anyone complain

• My Two Cents

  Dina D’Malchusa Dina, as explained by HaRav HaGaon Moshe Feinstein, ztl, is a highly qualified concept and should not be misconstrued. If the goyim impose on Klal Yisroel a law that conflicts with our laws, or imposes and unfair result on us, we are obliged to follow Jewish law, and disregard goyish law. DDMD is not limited to tax or property laws of the goyim. Tax laws are associated with DDMD, because the goyim often made our taxes larger than the rest of the population. So the Rabbis stated that DDMD does not apply to goyish tax laws if we are singled out for harsher treatment. But just because we have rights in this free society, such as the rights of victims of crime, doesn’t mean we are required to assert those rights by virtue of DDMD. The Rabbis will decide when DDMD applies, and it is strongly implied in their decision that their ruling has no conflict with DDMD. The law student is just that–a law student. Having been a law student myself, a new lawyer is as good as a green apple without the sugar.

• To Number 24

  lets put this into context.. the issue at hand is pikuach nefesh (for all intended purposes). If the authorities (police in this case) don’t feel like there are any repercussions to the over reach of power, it will put us – the Crown Heights residents – in danger.
  He uses “Dina Demalchua Dina” parenthetically, not as an “iker” like you accuse him of doing.
  I think he wrote the letter very respectfully.
  the reason why this an open letter, is because unfortunately in this community under the current leadership, it wouldn’t get much notice .
  PS no need for all the personal insults and accusations

• bz in la

  How sad.
  The whole incident was a complaint by 2 bochurim WHO ARE NOT CROWN HEIGHTS RESIDENTS!
  One is from Chicago, the other is from upstate New York.
  The psak from the Bais Din is only for residents of CH, and does not affect to these bochurim.

• Dov_CH

  Sorry, but this does not sound like the Beis Din! I think it’s the CHJCC, but they don’t want to take the heat so they put the Beis Din’s stationary on the paper. This sounds like it’s coming from those running the CHJCC. Come on Bronstien & Tamir be men! Put your names on the paper don’t get the Rabonim to look like fools!

  And if this is truly coming from the Rabonim then I respectfully think they are overreaching – this is not in their jurisdiction!

• Yossel

  B-H

  In case you haven’t noticed, New York City is not exactly the place where you can live in peace and freedom from all kinds of evils.

  If the Rabbonim are issuing this psak, the burden of dealing with child molesters, drug traffickers, and other assorted losers who are “in the community,” becomes THEIR resonsibility, and I hope they are up to the challenge..

  Somehow I don’t get a warm and fuzzy feeling that the CHJCC is capable and competent to handle the task assigned to them by the Rabbonim.

  I’d move out of here in a second if the Rebbe would give me a Brocho to do so…

• There is no Bais Din of less than 3

  i think we all forget one very important fact
  2 are not a bais din only 3 and up .
  so this 2 clowns can continue thier fights
  and dont act stupid.
  on a seperate note if you accuse someone
  you have to take him to bais din but the bais din cannot
  give a psak before listening to the other side.
  and if the police wants to call a din torah let them
  confirm before that all the metters of crown heights will be in the bais din and not in court LOL

• Yechiel.

  Anyone who commented about the pedophiles and such, please re-read the Psak, it was ONLY talking about speaking out against the Police Dept.

  That being said, I still have issue with it. But please DONT bring child abusers and the such into this conversation.

• sharp shooter

  the rabbis have always been known to be corrupt. now that they see they are not above the law anymore and are scared they will be brought to justice they joined together to retaliate against this community .it is now the right time for the entire community to join and use our power to override the personal agendas of the corrupt rabbis and restore the valor of crown heights

• Someone who left the Madhouse years ago

  To “Millhouse” — comments 24, 26, and 28 — Please take a chill pill, you are way off your rocker and you sound like a raving lunatic. BTW, can’t wait to see your keen analysis about (in your words) “whether the psak din is justified or not, whether it’s binding al pi halacha or not, or how people should react to it.”

• nuts

  crown heights is nuts. oholie torah abuse is the worst though.

• Sh.Zalman,CH

  Millhouse,
  I always enjoy your raving comments.I really get a kick out of them.You haven’t posted to much on Vosizneias lately (maybe because to many people complained?).
  You seem to really hate “dina demalchusa” going so far as to claim it does not exist! You are just too funny!
  It’s good you get to release that pent up raving rage you have on blogs, heaven help us if that rage was released on any unfortunates.
  Be well and remember to take your meds.
  Your #1 fan

• Better Dead than COLLive

  Correct. There is no Beis Din. There are 2 squabbling rabbonim and one without smicha who has yet to arrive. They can scribble all they want; their ramblings are worth no more than the ravings of the patients in whatever letter building replaced the legendary G building.

• This community Sucks

  I was looking previous letters from Rabbi Osdoba And Rabbi Shwai and the signatures arent theirs someone by the name of Potrak, Hubnere and Tamir are behind it and are affrad to mess up more with the jewish people they like having Jews locked up. They are responsible for the misering that going on to the police and they are the ones that pushed for the Shomrim Six to be prosecuted. Once the current Scumbag is out of the 71 Precinct there is going to be a lot of rebuilding to regain the community trust of the NYPD we as a community are fed up. Inspector Semmnetti should go to One Police Plaza on Monday morning and hand in his Shield, ID card, bullet prof vest, Patrol guild, Riot helmet, mace and what ever else the department issued him cause he’s a disgrace to the city and the NYPD

• 20 for silver

  number 69 are you allowed to say that??? lol

• NY Times

  The NY Times takes our Bais Din seriously! They have absolutly no idea that our Bais Din is a nebach a disfunctinoal Bais Din!

• suspicious...

  It is clear to me that the Rabbis fear arrest and wish to protect themselves. What do they have their hands in, I wonder??

• LOL

  Tee Hee, #76!!

• Milhouse

  #48, maybe you had an Oholei Torah education and have a problem reading and comprehending English. I have not expressed any opinion on whether this psak is genuine, or on what halachic bases might exist for its claims. But none of that is relevant to the rosho Federman’s statement. Federman openly wrote that whatever is against the law of the country must be against Jewish law too, and if a psak din of rabbonim contradicts the law then it must be ignored. That is open kefirah, and cannot be allowed to stand.

  If the psak is correct then the law is irrelevant, and we must obey the halacha; and if the psak is mistaken then it’s mistaken, and once again the law is irrelevant. So why cite the law at all? Only a “modern orthodox” kofer thinks that the US Code and all state and local ordinances are incorporated by reference into the Shulchan Aruch, and can thus be used to challenge a psak din.

• Milhouse

  #56, where did I suggest any such thing?

• Milhouse

  #72, VIN has turned into a cesspool. And I have never denied that Shmuel said dina demalchusa is dina; the problem is that amhoratzim like you can’t even translate that correctly into English.

• ch resident

  to #54 i here besides being a ganif gazlin and shakrin this satton guy is a rasha i saw him hit a shliach of the rebbe and then stealing his tallis and when i went over to him the next day in 770 i asked how he was doin he told me his head still hurts from the punch he got at the hands of satton and his fatherinlaw the rasha hubner i hope the rabanim and kaki tamir come out with a letter that you cant hit someone without permission from the vaad first

• Milhouse

  #70, on the contrary, I seem to be the one of the few sane commenters here. As for this psak, I have no opinion and have no intention of expressing one. All I know is that IF it’s a valid psak then it must be obeyed. If it isn’t, then of course it can be ignored. If this is a practical issue for you, then you must do just as you would with a shayla in the kitchen or the bedroom: ask a competent rov.

  If a similar psak din came out declaring that a product you use in your kitchen is treif, or that the mikveh your wife uses is possul, what would you do? Ignore it?! Of course not. You’d first verify whether the psak is genuine. Then you’d ask those who issued it for their reasons. And if you felt unsure about the halacha you’d ask a rov you trust to pasken for you. Why should this be any different?

• meaningful resolution

  I say fire Eli Cohen and hire Mr. Braun from Sydney as our new Eli Cohen, because he is very good at texting, so we will be able to text him for permission to go to the media about bad cops etc.

• antimesira

  this has nothing to do with the rabonim, this is all Zaki b. Tamir doing.

  sadly the Rabbis are being used once again for personal Agendas, we must not let them do this.

  Zaki wrote this letter, Zaki who pays them had them sign it.

• Sh.Zalman,CH

  Millhouse,
  It’s not nice to be nasty to your #1 fan.
  Hey, I really got a kick from you calling yourself one of the few sane commenters here.Lol, nice joke.
  VIN a cesspool??Much less since you stopped commenting.
  Umesaymim betov

• Milhouse

  “Sh.Zalman,CH”, you’re the only nasty one. How can you be mesayem betov, when your whole metzius is rak ra kol hayom?

• Ariyeh Leib Segall

  We are suffering froma lack of leadership within in the community itself…
  Tohu / chaos is reiging supreme because there is not one real mentsch that will take the lead to stem the tide of shtus that is overtaking the community…
  Ranging from the non stop talking in 770 during daveining, the embarassing way that those that are picked to lead the davening speed through it like they have atrain to catch (does nobody take what the Alter Rebbe has to say in the Tanya on this subject seriously !!!), the lack of life within the davening…
  when someone attempts to instill some chayos into the davening.. he is met with shusshing just as the misnagdim would do in the old days !!!
  It would us all a world of good to take a step back and look at our avoda during the day…surely, there must be areas that we can show more joy…
  We are afterall in the times right before geulah… we must therefore live with the times..

• To Mr. Millhouse from CH Cynic

  Thank you for taking an interest in my education! If you took the time to actually try and understand what someone was saying instead of putting together a list of personal attacks and names to call people you might actually appreciate what other people have to say. I’m not the only who understands what Mr. Federman is saying and its not Kefirah. Its calling out the Rabbanim on a Psak that has no basis anywhere, period. Your incessant ridiculing, name calling and bashing just shows that you’re a narcissistic moron, which is interesting actually, since that is what many would describe as the CHJCC.

  Oh and by the way, I graduated Summa Cum Laude from a top University with a Masters Degree in Business Administration. Spent 3 years as a financial analyst and am now a director of a $300 million dollar corporation.

• Local

  Eli Federman,

  Thank you for being brave! We need more people like you in the community.

  Eli Federman should replace the other (corrupt) Eli Cohen and straighten out the community counsel.

  Community Member

• keep them on!

  Webby, please keep these relevant threads up on page 1. It’s the only way we can keep up the pressure on the corrupt CHJCC & the Rabbis they bully. Once the threads disappear, our voices are gone too. We certainly can’t speak up on Mica’s Place, she doesn’t allow free speech.

  Here, you can have my good buddy Millhouse (as in Richard Nixon??) pontificating & arguing with different posters while the rest of us keep on topic. Such fun, better than psychotherapy (although some posters here could use it!)

• Emes

  Kavod HaTorah must rain supreme. It is vital for our community to have leadership and to respect Rabbonim Kavod Hatorah means we should not pasken against The Rabbonim this is against Torah and is very sad. Lubavitch is not Modern its a Chassidus The Rebbe didnt want things hefker with a lack of tznius and everyone doing as they please for the sack of the next generation lets stop disrespecting Rabbonim and listen to what they say just like every other Torah community. Chassidus demands stricter observance of Halacha not less.

• Please publish

  Dina Malchusa Dina is very complicated. Rabbonim and Daas Torah are the authority a Torah community listens to leadership not every man for themselves this is the opposite of bittul Hayeshus that Chassidus demands. Please respect the leadership and end machlockes.

• raizy

  i am just a simple yid trying to find my way in this community – but in very basic terms – there is so much chutzpa amongst so many of the comments that it is upsetting. half of the comments are overreacting and the other half are ego based and a few are actually respectful.

  as a newcomber who was turned on by her shaliach – the rabbonim is not what turned me off, but the community has. i am very saddened by the bickering.

  one thing i must say and it is so simple- ‘v’ahovta larecha kamocha’ – can you all just be mentshes. nothing would happen to our community in the first place- and stop pointng fingers at the robbonim, point them at yourselves.

  i am shcoked at the lack of manners and common decency missing in this community – focus on studying torah and chassidus – we will bein a much better place.

  and yes, we must save face- not everyhting needs to be made public! filing a comlplaint through the council could be beneficial…why must everyone be so defensive, emotional and abrasive…

  what i’ve seen in the few months that i am here is everyone fending for themselves minus a handful of yidden who really go out of their way for someone else.

  sending much love to all my brothers and sisters – let’s bring moshiach and look with a good eye.

• Wife Beater

  YAAAAY!!!! I can beat my wife now and she cant file a complaint! As if it wasnt hard enough for battered women to speak up…now its against halacha!! YAAAAY!

• if it wasn-t sad i would laugh

  These two rabbonim are idiots. They simply do not understand the world in which we live. These are the people to whom we are supposed to look for leadership? They have rendered themselves irrelevant.

• Milhouse

  #89, you’ve already established yourself as a rosho and a kofer, so why would I believe anything you say? In any case, what difference does it make what degree you got or how much money you make? Do you think they’ll be impressed by any of that when you appear before the Kisei Hakovod?!

• Reb Boruch from Crown Heights

  Kavod hatorah is indeed of paramount important, but when rabbonim start sending letters on issues outside their domain, they are the ones trampling on their own kavod. What if the rabbonim start sending out stock picks on the badatz letterhead and placing a gag order on the purchase of stock in any company they don’t feature as their picks? Must we listen to them out of kavod hatorah? Give me a break.

  It is very unfortunate that the rabbonim have made a fool of themselves with certain elements of the letter that they signed off on that has absolutely nothing to do with yiddishkeit or halacho and have everything to do with politics between yidden and goyim. It is sad that the rabbonim allowed themselves to be pushed by interest groups that were intent on pushing their agenda regardless if it meant making the rabbonim into clowns in the process. I am convinced that the community leaders either have a very negligible IQ or a very sinister and evil agenda.